/sci/ - Science & Math

for the most part yes

>>14527329
But why, how did it get this bad?

>>14527328
>because they'd immediately get hospitalized
pretty much this
half of 4chan has a latent personnality disorder, it's easier to lash out blindly at mental health institutions than actually look into yourself and change your stupid autistic non-functioning ways

>>14527328
I have been to hospital for schizophrenia. I'm sane now. But I still think there's a lot wrong with the system, and it's probably not all that scientific.

>>14527328
>psychiatry
Yes, total scam
>psychology
It's more like a quasi-science. Although the theories are not always falsifiable, psychologists from the late 19th century until modern times have come up with theories that are now affirmed with modern experimental protocols and brain imaging techniques. Undeniably the methods used in psychology have a reasonably high degree of validity but their initial reliability is not very high unless supported with actual data.

I would say that modern-day psychology, disentangled from embedded paradigms that stretch into modern research from the past, is a fully-fledged science supported by modern technology.

>>14527349
>But I still think there's a lot wrong with the system, and it's probably not all that scientific.
But what are these thoughts based on?

>>14527358
>Yes, total scam

Go on. Explain how it's a scam.

>>14527413
Psychiatry is not an a posteriori investigation into the human mind, but an a priori approach to diagnosing mental states. Rather than investigating mental phenomena and how they take shape like in psychology and neuroscience, psychiatry is based on assuming a certain norm of the functioning of the human mind and diagnosing deviations as often very arbitrary mental disorders.

The entire field is also deeply entwined with and influenced by corporate interests to such an extreme degree that its approaches and application have no validity, no reliability and are very unfalsifiable.

Psychiatry is total fucking bullshit and that is not even taking into account the influence that retard Freud had on the field.

>>14527328
>psychiatry
It works, meds literally enhanced my brain, and they're the only reason I'm passing college
>psychology
Bullshit. A dude talks to you telling you how nice everything is and telling you to go out more if you're anxious and depressed, and you're supposed to get better from the "feels good" bullshit

>>14527328
>have shit life
>get diagnosed with bipolar
>take my meds
>have good life

It's not a scam

everyone is crazy it's just that most of the population is the same type of crazy.
If someone identifies as mentally ill and the quality of their life objectively improves because of that it's valid enough

>>14527427
Then why do all the right leaning retards say it is?

>>14527418
Where is the evidence for your claims, desu? You seem quite biased.

>>14527345
>Actually you have this disease I made up
Please save us all some time and just kill yourself now

>>14527411
In the UK, you can be forced to go to hospital if you're diagnosed with schizophrenia. At that stage, it's not so much a difference of opinion ad it is an aggression upon one's bodily sovereignty in the name of a psychiatrist's subjective evaluation of your degree of deviation from the "norm".
And since "normal mental functioning" is what has gotten us to this juncture in history, I have reason to believe that enforcing it with state power is a bad idea.

>>14527476
you obviously lack any kind of nosological education and personal reflexion
feel free to fuck off and learn something about the subject at hand before yapping like a retarded cattle

>>14527539
>yfw you're really nosologically educated

>>14527328
>psychiatry
90% of 'mental illnesses' are just pathologized nonconformity and the remaining 10% are never actually cured - just masked with an endless stream of highly profitable pharmaceutical products.
>psychology
Lonely depressed people pay $200/hour for some dipshit to pretend to care about them while they ramble about their stupid problems and then they go write dumb theories about it all to distract themselves from the fact that they could be replaced by a plushie.

Remember these are the same people who brought humanity trepanning, lobotomies, electroshock, 'sluggish schizophrenia, and sex change surgery.

>>14527558
>the remaining 10% are never actually cured
about that remaining 10%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions
>There is a relative lack of research into grandiose delusions, in contrast to persecutory delusions and auditory hallucinations. Around 10% of healthy people experience grandiose thoughts at some point in their lives but do not meet full criteria for a diagnosis of grandiose delusions.
the professionals, for some reason, absolutely refuse to research this little corner of their discipline. can you guess why the pros refuse to investigate it? why do they consider people who experience these delusions normal? its like saying that people who have sckitzo hallucinations are normal.

>>14527570
This

>>14527328
I strongly believe 'mental illness' in our modern era just means 'nonconform social behavior' which apllies to more and more people, because the boundaries of what counts as 'normal' are shrinking every day. To counterbalance this, there's more and more 'safe spaces' for a wide assortment of 'mental problems', which leads to a normalization of selfdestructive and degenerate behavior on a societal level.

Or in other words: I think there's a certain push of societal norms, so more and more people fall short of meeting the standards and get labelled as mentally ill, but at the same time the system that deemed them being ill is telling them they're completely normal and sane.

>>14527570
Human brains are constantly planning for the future, anticipating the worst and hoping for the best. Our brains don't plan according to a societal framework, they plan according to a natural framework, a state we lived in 50,000+ years ago. Our most fundamental behavioural and motivational pathways in the brain apply logic concerning acquisition of food, mating partner, securing offspring, etc. to modern societies that do not function along the same mechanics as the wild lifestyle. Many "delusions of grandeur" are simply the product of a species-typical drive to provide maximum security in one's life of our most primal needs.

The psychiatric discipline entirely sidesteps fundamental underpinnings of the human mind from our evolutionary past and applies modern societal perspectives to judge whether something is a "disorder" or not. Instead of healthily incorporating species-typical behaviours into one's mental framework, it seeks to alter these behaviours through medication or misplaced therapy.

>>14527345
Lurk moar, most people on here reject the notion of mental institutions/therapy in favor of introspection.

>>14527345
>than actually look into yourself and change your stupid autistic non-functioning ways

One of the interesting papers I read recently about autism (in animal models) is that the autistic behavior can be attenuated using choline, the premise being that autism is choline deficiency, caused by poor diet and/or genetic polymorphism.

So, if psychiatry/psychology did actual interventions like this, it might be one thing, but Dr. Shekelstetin is just going to Rx you pills that he might even be invested in.

>>14527411
>But what are these thoughts based on?

I have a buddy who has a buddy whose area of academic research is "is this discipline scientific?" He has said to me that medicine is only, say, 50% scientific, the other 50% is completely unscientific.

Like, if you go to a psychiatrist, most times, they are not even going to suggest diet/exercise. A psychologist is more likely to support that, but the psychiatric model is

"is patient complaining? Rx drugs until patient stops complaining and/or being place into psych ward."

>>14527427
>>have shit life
>>get diagnosed with bipolar
>>take my meds
>>have good life
>It's not a scam

The problem with this is that the success rate isnowhere near what it is for, say, treating anemia w/ iron, or setting a broken arm. Misdiagnosis is very much more likely.

>>14527338
World War 2.
Had to find a way to put all the crazies out of the way without killing them all off.

>>14527328
You’ll find that there are valid criticisms both from inside and outside the field. What you’ll also find is that a website that attracts the mentally ill will very rarely provide these instead opting for non functional responses showcasing their limited cognitive and social ability.
Ask yourself if a website that has promoted numerous murderers is actually a good influence on the mentally ill (by supposed self introspection that can only be gained on 4chan), and if it isn’t that there might be alternative methodologies that are.

>>14527345
to be non-functioning in a world that is based on satanic laws is to be blessed.

>>14527328
Psychiatry and clinical psychology are memes, yes. Psychiatry especially.

Clinical psychology is only a very small subfield of psychology. Fields like cognitive neuroscience and sensory neuroscience are less full of shit but still have some major problems, mostly revolving around measurement.

>>14529835
>one of the interesting papers
you have thousands of random nobodies finding some incidental trivia about autism and publishing their findings, and yet none of those are relevant because as you said, there's genetic polymorphism and many environmental factos at hand, and thinking you can cure autism with the snap of a finger through some magic snake oil is bad science and you're basically a midwit

>pills
>for autism
yeah, you're just talking bullshit out of your ass
internet isn't real life dipshit, stop talking in memes

>>14527328
No, but they are very flawed at the moment.
The design of the area of science needs some tweaking.

>>14527328
Imagine seething this much about being bullied by /pol/ that you have to post these threads in other boards.
Imagine being that butthurt.

>>14527349
Were you having obvious visual and audial hallucinations.
I think that diagnosis is miscontrued and misunderstanding actual problems with auditory and optical neural issues that we just assume are tied to this vague abstraction called skitzophrenia.
In fact, I would recommend that psychologists and psychiatrists reexamine these people for more detailed and specific problems, rather than the vague abstract problem.

This approach in this science is all wrong. It needs to look at the problematic symptoms and rip them apart, defining the actual problematic areas and what specific brain areas and body malfunctions are causing them.
There's no way you should have those hallucinations without problems with your auditory and optical neural networks. It makes no sense how they can assume a hallucination is some vague abstraction. It get's worse when you realise such disorders can warp a person's perception of the world, their ideas and their general pattern of thinking.

Often I think that it's not skitzophrenia causing issues that manifests with hallucinations, rather it's the other way around, the auditory and optical issues are causing their paranoid nature.
BUT, be aware of "The Giver" situation where people make sure they see and hear things in a specific way. That might lead to over conformity of thought and may reduce a potential gift that a person may have.

Why am I replying to a troll thread?

>>14530416
>there's genetic polymorphism and many environmental factos at hand, and thinking you can cure autism with the snap of a finger through some magic snake oil is bad science and you're basically a midwit


"Choline supplementation to adult offspring of Mthfr+/− mothers for 14 days counteracted characteristics related to repetitive behavior and anxiety both in males and in females and improved social behavior solely in male mice. Choline treatment also normalized deviant cortical levels of the autophagy markers measured in male mice. The results demonstrate that choline supplementation even at adulthood, not tested previously, to offspring of Mthfr-deficient mothers, attenuates the autistic-like phenotype. If this proof of concept is replicated it might promote translation of these results to treatment recommendation for children with ASDs bearing similar genetic/metabolic make-up."
https://ww w.n ature.com/articles/s41398-0 20-010 02-1 (added spaces to avoid spam filter)

The study is preliminary, but it is an interesting idea. The IOM says individuals need 7mg/kg choline (as adults) and 18mg/kg as babies. Very few adults get this, and double-digit percentages of babies don't either. The baby figure is porbably more legit than the adult figure, the baby figure is based on milk from healthy mothers w/ healthy offspring, and normal consumption.

Choline is not a pill, its an essential nutrient involved in all sorts of metabolic processes---it is almost like an amino acid, in that it serves a structural function (cell membranes) and acts as a precursor for a neurotransmitter (acetylcholine), as well as having other impacts.

So Autism could, at least partly, be choline deficiency and/or these genetic differences leading to an increased requirement for choline.

Choline is inexpensive and basically harmless---there would be very little danger in giving an autistic child an extra 1g choline a day to see what happens.

>>14527328
> scam
it's applied psychology, faggot

>>14527328
The US is the country with the highest rate of psychiatric medication consumption. It's also an open air insane asylum full of insane, miserable people. Keep your psychiatrists.

>>14527458
>Where is the evidence for your claims, desu?
So you have a cigarette addiction? Take this antipsychotic, it doesn't work ? Try this for another 2 weeks, now you feel slowed and depressed (side effects of pharma) we have 300 more diseases similar to depression or skitzophrenia and brand new nocebos to try. https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/north-tampa-behavioral-health/
You can see every case of the coercive psychiatry system leads to the link above, I can't find a way out and meaning if not corruption that's the scam.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=robCTO-hYvw
Look at the tone of the voice, the girl is talking and moving slow they ruined her. Curiously even some psychiatrists have a similar condition I imagine they took their shit out of ignorance

>>14527345
no, i'm not going to stop be antisemitic or participate in the society

>>14527328
>Are psychiatry and psychology a scam?
Of course.

They are just scams, to extract money from people when they are emotionally vulnerable.

>>14527328
>70% of studies cannot be replicated
>anecdotes of quack pyschologists "diagnosing" people with every mental illness under the sun when in fact they just had some rare brain infection or gut issue
malpractice is bad enough, it's in the top 10 killers around the globe, and it's far more reliable than psychology

>>14527452

You will never be a woman.