/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14513312
I suspect it's what elementary particles do when they are aligned at the same direction, because nail become magnetic when they are aligned along the earth poles. Why do they only attract iron is a mistery to me.
Put then fibres may become magnetic and attract to or distract from everything.
I don't know. And it's a good thing, I can think about it and maybe some day I will give you a better answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWjT96GSTQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s94suB5uLWw

>>14513342

It's related to the number of electrons on the outer shell. Ferromagnetism is an unusual property that occurs in only a few substances. The common ones are the transition metals iron, nickel, cobalt and their alloys, and alloys of rare-earth metals. It is a property not just of the chemical make-up of a material, but of its crystalline structure and microstructure. Their ferromagnetism results from having many unpaired electrons in their d-block in the case of iron and its relatives, or the f-block in the case of the rare-earth metals, a result of Hund's rule of maximum multiplicity. There are ferromagnetic metal alloys whose constituents are not themselves ferromagnetic, called Heusler alloys, named after Fritz Heusler. Conversely, there are non-magnetic alloys, such as types of stainless steel, composed almost exclusively of ferromagnetic metals.

Amorphous (non-crystalline) ferromagnetic metallic alloys can be made by very rapid quenching (cooling) of a liquid alloy. These have the advantage that their properties are nearly isotropic (not aligned along a crystal axis); this results in low coercivity, low hysteresis loss, high permeability, and high electrical resistivity. One such typical material is a transition metal-metalloid alloy, made from about 80% transition metal (usually Fe, Co, or Ni) and a metalloid component (B, C, Si, P, or Al) that lowers the melting point.

A relatively new class of exceptionally strong ferromagnetic materials are the rare-earth magnets. They contain lanthanide elements that are known for their ability to carry large magnetic moments in well-localized f-orbitals.

>>14513405

One of the fundamental properties of an electron (besides that it carries charge) is that it has a magnetic dipole moment, i.e., it behaves like a tiny magnet, producing a magnetic field. This dipole moment comes from the more fundamental property of the electron that it has quantum mechanical spin. Due to its quantum nature, the spin of the electron can be in one of only two states; with the magnetic field either pointing "up" or "down" (for any choice of up and down). The spin of the electrons in atoms is the main source of ferromagnetism, although there is also a contribution from the orbital angular momentum of the electron about the nucleus. When these magnetic dipoles in a piece of matter are aligned, (point in the same direction) their individually tiny magnetic fields add together to create a much larger macroscopic field.

However, materials made of atoms with filled electron shells have a total dipole moment of zero: because the electrons all exist in pairs with opposite spin, every electron's magnetic moment is cancelled by the opposite moment of the second electron in the pair. Only atoms with partially filled shells (i.e., unpaired spins) can have a net magnetic moment, so ferromagnetism occurs only in materials with partially filled shells. Because of Hund's rules, the first few electrons in a shell tend to have the same spin, thereby increasing the total dipole moment.

These unpaired dipoles (often called simply "spins", even though they also generally include orbital angular momentum) tend to align in parallel to an external magnetic field – an effect called paramagnetism. Ferromagnetism involves an additional phenomenon, however: in a few substances the dipoles tend to align spontaneously, giving rise to a spontaneous magnetization, even when there is no applied field.

>>14513407

When two nearby atoms have unpaired electrons, whether the electron spins are parallel or antiparallel affects whether the electrons can share the same orbit as a result of the quantum mechanical effect called the exchange interaction. This in turn affects the electron location and the Coulomb (electrostatic) interaction and thus the energy difference between these states.

The exchange interaction is related to the Pauli exclusion principle, which says that two electrons with the same spin cannot also be in the same spatial state (orbital). This is a consequence of the spin–statistics theorem and that electrons are fermions. Therefore, under certain conditions, when the orbitals of the unpaired outer valence electrons from adjacent atoms overlap, the distributions of their electric charge in space are farther apart when the electrons have parallel spins than when they have opposite spins. This reduces the electrostatic energy of the electrons when their spins are parallel compared to their energy when the spins are antiparallel, so the parallel-spin state is more stable. This difference in energy is called the exchange energy. In simple terms, the outer electrons of adjacent atoms, which repel each other, can move further apart by aligning their spins in parallel, so the spins of these electrons tend to line up.

>>14513417

This energy difference can be orders of magnitude larger than the energy differences associated with the magnetic dipole–dipole interaction due to dipole orientation, which tends to align the dipoles antiparallel. In certain doped semiconductor oxides RKKY interactions have been shown to bring about periodic longer-range magnetic interactions, a phenomenon of significance in the study of spintronic materials.

The materials in which the exchange interaction is much stronger than the competing dipole–dipole interaction are frequently called magnetic materials. For instance, in iron (Fe) the exchange force is about 1000 times stronger than the dipole interaction. Therefore, below the Curie temperature virtually all of the dipoles in a ferromagnetic material will be aligned. In addition to ferromagnetism, the exchange interaction is also responsible for the other types of spontaneous ordering of atomic magnetic moments occurring in magnetic solids, antiferromagnetism and ferrimagnetism. There are different exchange interaction mechanisms which create the magnetism in different ferromagnetic, ferrimagnetic, and antiferromagnetic substances. These mechanisms include direct exchange, RKKY exchange, double exchange, and superexchange.

>>14513312

>>14513312
Dude almost everything in physics that has to do with the question "Why" is fake and gay.


What is the proof that electric field exists? What even is it exactly? It's nothing but a mathematical construct.

>>14513442
if you can measure it: it's there
or something like that, who cares

>>14513442
>It's nothing but a mathematical construct.
What about it's manifestations? It's definitely a physical phenomenon. It's only described by math, could be described by any other language, maybe even in musical notation, but then you wouldn't understand.

>>14513312

Paramagnetism is due to the presence of unpaired electrons in the material, so most atoms with incompletely filled atomic orbitals are paramagnetic, although exceptions such as copper exist. Due to their spin, unpaired electrons have a magnetic dipole moment and act like tiny magnets. An external magnetic field causes the electrons' spins to align parallel to the field, causing a net attraction. Paramagnetic materials include aluminium, oxygen, titanium, and iron oxide (FeO). Therefore, a simple rule of thumb is used in chemistry to determine whether a particle (atom, ion, or molecule) is paramagnetic or diamagnetic: if all electrons in the particle are paired, then the substance made of this particle is diamagnetic; if it has unpaired electrons, then the substance is paramagnetic.

Which type?

>>14513312
Magnets aren't real. Coulomb forces have a velocity dependence. Take the W E B E R P I L L.

>>14513655
can you post the weberpill

>>14513342
Yes the source is electrons, they are tiny magnets. Likely quarks too they also are tiny magnets.
Nobody knows why, we can only describe how it works not why

>>14513405
Oh fuck off

>>14513508
Really mah nigga you measure the deflection of some needle, nobody cares if the field is real

>>14513802
Basically it states that the electric field can be decoupled from the magnetic field. That charges and currents generate an electric field that is all the force and theres no magnetism

>>14513407
>electron's magnetic moment is cancelled by the opposite moment of the second electron in the pair.
So do electrons that are pair locked, orbit the nucleus faster,? Because the second opposite spin electron is attracted by the nucleaus, so sneaks in the orbit past the repulsive electron; so both electrons are attracted to the center, but repulsed by each other, does the repulsion alter their orbits in anyway, they are flying around the center if they get near to one another are they quickly repulsed away though not enough to leave orbit, so are they constantly extra accelerated by their repulsive neighbors orbit?

>>14513808
>>14513516
>An external magnetic field causes the electrons' spins


Thee one and only magnetic field, the EM field, exists everywhere in space, so when you speak about external magnetic field, what the case is that: All motions, shapes, of the magnetic field are caused by non magnetic field objects (unless there are common or uncommon cases of the magnetic field interacting with itself), so charges create particular impresions of the magnetic field and these impressions impress upon other charges.

The impresions made of/on/in/to the magnetic field are different depending on the characteristics of the charge that makes them.

Could it be the nature of the magnetic field, EM field, influences the charge particle (to have spin, in the first place) and also is influenced by charged particles EM field at point A is influencing a charged particle Q, but massive fast orbiting charged particle R, influences it's local EM field at point D that influences EM field at point A?

>>14513872
>Could it be the nature of the magnetic field, EM field, influences the charge particle (to have spin, in the first place) and also is influenced by charged particles EM field at point A is influencing a charged particle Q, but massive fast orbiting charged particle R, influences it's local EM field at point D that influences EM field at point A?

Could an electron be a certain way intrinsically;

And then always a different certain way by virtue of existing in the universe among the all uncompassing EM field?

That is to say, could the EM field cause the Electron to have the quantum spin it has?

And could the EM field at points A and B and C and D constantly touching the electron be forcing the electron to have the quantum spin it does; while also;
That electron is able to form and impress and radiate the EM field at points E and F and G and H?

Can the EM field both force an object to consistently behave a particular unavoidable therefore fundamental way

While Also another location of EM field can be interacted on by that electron; by the local EM field making that electron localy move in a certain way, a less local area of EM field can be moved by that electrons movements

>i know how magnets work
>no i cannot build a magnet
>no i can't explain where they come from
>no i cannot demonstrate any basis for my claims of superior knowledge
>t. typical /sci/anon

>>14514405
precisely.

>>14514405
I can make a magnet with a piece of iron, wire and a battery. This isnt survivor island where you only have coconuts

>>14514647
>i can make toast by buying bread and a toaster

>>14514649
Do i have to make the magnet from pure vacuum?

>>14514663
are you saying that's not possible?

>so much text
>so little explanation

>>14513405 ...
Only a theory how it's generated, not explain what it is.

>>14513430
Insane Clown Posse: how the fuck do they work?

>>14515291
When the electrons are alligned they are like how tank treads are alligned and the tank treads grab onto terrain and pulls the tank body forward;

The electrons terrain to grab onto is the EM field; the synced alligned electrons (like cree rowers, like treadmills) are all spinning the same way, this macro display of omnidirectional spinning, latches onto fhd EM field and claws it's way forward

Into the South side of another magnet; whose electrons are also would be clawing forward if a particular path of least resistance was in front of them;

Somehow and reason, we'll get to this after and later after more back and forth with some help from the crowd; the electrons sync motions do something to the space in front of them differently than behind;

So when a N side gets close enough to a S side; the S side is like, those electrons are doing exactly what we are, they are a part of us; no, the EM field is being moved at the S side by the electrons such that thd N side sees the goal line, an excess of positives, and gets access to them... That kicks the regression down the road, but again the only answer is; positive does X to the surrounding EM space; negative does Y to the surrounding EM space, negative does not do to the surrounding EM space what is required for negatives to maintain orbits around negatives; whatever positives do, and more so when the electrons of the positives are busy distracted and alligned looking forward, there is a net positive EM field disturbance at the S side back, and the net negative N side, feels that at above average distance across space, and zips to fill the gap

>>14515415
>When the electrons are alligned they ..
But what is magnetic field?

>>14513808
>Nobody knows why, we can only describe how it works not why
This is what midwits on here always say. "I don't understand it therefore no one does."

For physicists who have a deeper understanding than you it is perfectly reasonable that particles have quantized spin and that quantized spin acts as a magnetic dipole. These facts can be understood from various angles. If you are going to say nobody knows why for something like this you are just making a vacuous philosophical point that can be applied to anything (but really we both know it's just because you are ignorant and don't want to admit it to yourself).

>>14515677
not him but ok genius, explain the why and how fully :) oh wait you fucking can't! nobody can! LMAOOOO retard go cry about it

>>14515682
I won't explain to you. You have too little background so I could be typing for pages and pages and you still not get it. I'm can't be bothered.

>>14515686
>im lmpotent
k

>>14513312
Magnets are easy. North sticks to south. That's how they work.

>>14515677
>For physicists who have a deeper understanding than you it is perfectly reasonable that particles have quantized spin and that quantized spin acts as a magnetic dipole.
Word salad isnt an explanation. Im a physicist and we dont know why magnets exist. This is is the only explanation you will ever get and no amount of description of magnets will explain why they exist. We also dont know why gravity exist or why physical constants have the values they have

>>14513312
https://www.nature.com/articles/024360a0

>>14515963
I'm more of a physicist than you are. I get paid to do theoretical high energy physics. I understand how particles with spin have magnetic dipole moment due to the way in which they are coupled to the electromagnetic field. If I can reduce the idea that electrons act like a magnetic dipole down to very fundamental principles about what particles are and what the electromagnetic force is, then I call that "understanding."

"We don't why gravity exists" is midwit-tier philosophizing and isn't an interesting point.

>>14516521
>down to very fundamental principles about what particles are a
This is irrelevant, you cant still explain "why". You can only describe what electromagnetism is but for some reason you feel like describing it some arbitrary level is no longer a description but "the real explanation". QED isnt more of an explanation that "theres force between current wires".
Also no one is impressed about you throwing around the word spin. Yes, you can picture the electron like a spinning charge so its going to be like a little loop of current so its going to be like a little magnet. Yes, the actual value of the dipole can be calculated with high accuracy with QED, that was in like 1948 no one gives a shit and theoretical physicists are the lower paid physicists that exist because almost none of them are good

>>14516935
I'm not trying to impress you or explain it to you. I'm telling you that your claims that no one understands it are wrong and your assertions that we can't ever really understand anything are not as deep as you think and come across as juvenile.

>>14516971
>I'm telling you that your claims that no one understands
Nobody ever made this claim retard, the claim is that you can describe electromagnetism but not explain "why". Any kind of "fundamental" description is ultimately just because, nature is just like that

>>14515418
>But what is magnetic field?
EM field is a medium of particulate constituents tightly densely packed together that extend the 3d/4d distance of the universe.

When things travel straight, like an electron, it just goes straight through the medium; but when it is caused to change direction, accelerate, the local medium changes in relation to how that electrons direction velocity was changed;

The EM field at that location of electron acceleration is impacted and imparted with that change, and so a momentous change is imparted into it, called radiation;

When many electrons are in sync and maybe constantly locally changing; the local EM field is constantly placed in a state, a state that allows the phenomenon of what is percieved and called magnetism.

When a particular magnetic field is being referd to, it is a local geometry topography density of EM field caused by the quantity, velocity, angular momentum, allignment sync, of local electrons

>>14515677
>acts as a magnetic dipole.
Physically mechanically, how does magnet in my right hand drag itself to touch it's N side to thf magnet in my left hands S side?

I understand all the terms and concepts and short hands involved, we are asking about underneath the hood of all those;

The physical body of one magnet, the physical body of another magnet, in vacuum, the EM field surrounding the magnets, the electrons and nucleai composing the magnet bodies;

Physically how does the magnet in my left hand drag itself across space?

What is this rock doing differently than others?

How do electrons and nucleai, and EM field exist and function in such a manner as to perform this activity?

>>14516971
>i know how magnets work, but i refuse to prove it, you'll just have to trust my grandiose assertion of superior intellect, i refuse to provide any evidence at all

>>14517023
>nature is just like that
But everything we have seen and known and learned from Nature is that nature uses physical logic and reason, cause and effect, proportion, everything makes sense; it makes sense that things of more mass would weigh more, it makes physical logical sense that less dense things will float in water. It makes physical logical sense that if you push this lever and it drops this and this gear turns into that gear then this thing will lift;

Now does boiling and freezing make physical logical sense?

The idea of fire and water and gas and ice are weird inventive ideas, we enter this world as complete strangers, what makes sense, what seems normal and intuitive.

The idea of liquid turning into ice, does this make some trancendent timeless sense of an idea that is physically logical? Or boiliing? Add heat to water and it gets chaotic, its bonds weaken, ax it tries to handle and distribute the energy; take energy away from water, and the bonds that I guess require an amount of regular energy to stay and liquid form, crystalize, does this make physical logical sense?

Stacking wood and nailing it a certain way can make a stable structure house, other ways cannot, can we see and understand and does it make sense why some things work and some cannot?

The Electrons body is some way,
The Nucleus body is some way,
The EM field is some way
The EM field most local the Electrons body is some way
The EM field most local the Nucleaus body is some way

What is the physical logical mechanical process forces one bar magnet into the other; describe what about existence of all those seperate bodies, what are their bodies like, what are their bodies doing, to thd EM field, what is the EM field that what things may be done to and with it, what happens?

S======N .....S=======N

------------------..... ------------------
eeeeeeeee. eeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeee. eeeeeeeee
-----------------...... -------------------


-----------------
)))))))))))))
)))))))))))))
----------------

-----------------
(((((((((((((
(((((((((((((
----------------
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
------------------- ------------
))))). .S######N )))) S####N)))))))
))))) .S######.N )))) S####N)))))))
-------------------- -------------
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>14517355
Read a textbook and try to understand it yourself. Nothing's stopping you.

If you were me would you want to write a long explanation to someone that seems like they are going to be hostile towards any bit formalism that they don't get right away?

>>14517394
>i know how magnets work, but i refuse to prove it, you'll just have to trust my grandiose assertion of superior intellect, i refuse to provide any evidence at all
if i were you and i wasn't willing to provide proof of my superior knowledge and intelligence then i wouldn't be making big claims about them because i know that everyone would realize that i'm just a prancing, posing, popsci pseud faggot if i was making big grandiose claims and refusing to provide and evidence.
the royal society was founded in the 1600 for the express purpose of excluding people like you who want to make grandiose claims without providing evidence. science works better when the prancing posers are shut down, when they aren't then their incessant stream of evidence less grandiose lies interfere with scientific progress. you and your ilk are a toxic presence.

>>14517394
You cant explain why QED is what it is. Nature could have been different.

>>14517437
And I'm telling you I get what you're saying, I always have, and I don't think it's an interesting point.

>>14517443
Then why are you pretending to have an argument? I thought you were going to explain why QED is what it is. Why it isn't something else.

>>14517456
If you have fields interacting with a U(1) gauge field (which is one of very few renormalizable interactions they can actually have) and if those fields transform nontrivially under spacetime transformations (i.e. they have spin, and fermions must), then the quanta of that field will have something like magnetic dipole interactions. How's that?

>>14517388
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
............----------------.........------------
))))))))S######N )))) S####N)))))))
))))))))S######N )))) S####N)))))))
............----------------........-------------
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

#= electrons
))= EM field

When electrons are alligned, they have a sum of parts effect on the local EM field; when not alligned they make the local EM field choppy Evey which way

)))((())))(((///)()))
(((()()(())()))|[]{}[[
)())()))))))))))//)
}{(](/[][(())(()))())

When electrons in magnet are aligned they make the local EM field move some coherent sum of parts manner
))))))))))))))))
))))))))))))))))
))))))))))))))))
))))))))))))))))

The electrons actually revolve/orbit in the magnet; just like a motor boat fan blade actually rotates;

Taking 100 motor boat fan blades and placing them every which way

Vs, alligning them all in one direction

Conclusion: electrons are motor boat engine fan blades (or row boat rowers), a magnet is a boat; the EM field is water.

The N side is the front of the boat, the direction the electrons are rowing,

A N side of magnet placed to a non magnet; the electrons of non magnet are not making the EM field wake on their south side,

The 2 bar magnets are macroscopic versions of molecules or elements; electron bonds;

Electrons lock into molecules that can accept another electron:

The S side of the magnet is seeking electrons to lock into it, because the alignment of their electrons spin is forward focused

>>14517485
Ka Peach ?

>>14517485
Come on someone clarify

>>14513312
Here's how they work: NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER

>>14517464
Why is it U(1)?

>>14517464
And if and if and if and if that thing that happens happens and if then this condition occurs and if then we make this choice among the other choices then thats why

>>14517485


))))))))) = EM Field
S = South pole of magnet
N =North pole of magnet
e = electron
----- = the boundary extent of the magnet body

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
))------------------)))))))))))------------))))))))))
)))eeeeeeeee ))))))))))eeeeeee))))))))))
)))SeeeeeeeN))))))))))SeeeeeN))))))))))
)))eeeeeeeee)))))))))))eeeeeee))))))))))
)))------------------)))))))))))-------------))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>14513312
honestly, no one understands why some elementary particles have "spin", because in the end it all boils down to this

>>14519655
Average EM field= ######
Em field in presence of magnet/alligned electrons = )))))
Unaligned electrons = &&&&&&&
Alligned electrons = eeeeeeee
#####################
################&####
###&&#########&######
########&&&######&&##
#####################
####&&&#######&######
#####################


##########################
#####))))))))))))))))))))))))))))#####
#####)))))))[eeeee])))[eeeee])))#####
#####)))))))[eeeee])))[eeeee])))#####
#####)))))))[eeeee])))[eeeee])))#####
#####))))))))))))))))))))))))))))#####
##########################

>>14519673
Having frustrating physics discussions being pushed to trying to draw what I was trying to say and ask and describe, led me to trying to pursue art, for being touched by the beauty of the first few drawing attempts to depict how light and gravity might exist and interact on its scale with fundamental particles

>>14519387
U(1) means electromagnetism. I am just emphasizing how natural the whole structure of electromagnetism is for those who already know what I'm talking about.

>>14519655
sneed.

>>14519769
Why is it U(1)

>>14519673
Noice

>>14519673

############################
#####))))))))))))))))))))))))))))#######
#####)))))))[eeeee])))[eeeee])))#####
#####)))))))[eeeee])))[eeeee])))#####
#####)))))))[eeeee])))[eeeee])))#####
#####))))))))))))))))))))))))))))#######
############################

Ok, now how, why, by what mechanism, where, when, is forcing making the magnet on the left move to the magnet on the right?

A combo of what is happening on their sides and in between them?

Some magnifying effect,
On the most micro scale of this phenomenon, what is moving what that moves what, how, that results in the whole magnet body moving?

By what physical means does the magnet spontaneously move through the air, describe the physical process of the motion.

>>14513312
>be electrician
>working understanding of electrons and flux
>decide to learn how magnets work
>lots of physics I have never learnt
>learn a heap
>still don't get it
>spend months on it
>realize I'll never get it

>>14513312
Depends on how deep you wanna go, I did a lot of electrical and mechanical engineering, and physics units in my degree, so I know a fair bit about magnets. So I'm familiar with all of the equations Lorentz, Maxwell, Gauss, Faraday, and Ampere gave us-I had to derive some of them in a few units, and explain them in short answers
.
But yeah, if you really wanna break it down into its fundamental components I guess I'd probably come up short with answers as to what's going on at the subatomic level, and I probably misconstrue how much of it actually works. Its good to remind yourself of how little you truly understand, sometimes.

I never delved too deeply into it because I ended up leaning more towards a mix of neuroscience and computer science, rather than pursuing engineering. Having said that, I work in FinTech, but I like to read and work on side projects.

>>14522327
Keep at it man, you're clearly a curious guy-that's 90% of what it takes to eventually get your head around this kind of stuff, genuine interest. The inquisitive and self-educated working class is one of my favourite groups of people.

>>14522327
read on resonance
It is definitely the thing, because atoms have to align along one axis for iron to be magnetic.
Because sinthetic fibre becomes magnetic when I pinch it with my fingers and pull them along it, I suspect the same efect taking place.

>>14517433

>>14522327
>magic is
>the birth of mah kids
>I've seen shit thatll shock the eyelids

>>14513312
Everything is fields. Fields make things move.

>>14513312
Okay I will explain it to you. Fields are the only things that exist all the particles you see in this world are figments of the human brains computing. As soon as you understand this you will understand why magnetic fields are the only things that exist and the particles you see are just approximation of a field.

I hope that makes sense OP :) There I explained it with my 86 IQ.

>>14514405
They silenced him because he knew too much.
Stay safe.

>>14524159
Nah particles are real, and the fields have to be composed of something, someway, the fields are likely made of particles.

What are the fundamental things for things to be made of? Particles and waves, that's it's? How can a wave just exist, without being composed of parts? Especially one that extends light years?

>>14524297
>Nah particles are real, and the fields have to be composed of something, someway, the fields are likely made of particles.

Wrong literally everything is made of waves even "particles" look into quantum mechanics and qft.

>How can a wave just exist, without being composed of parts?

Idk the same way your consciousness seems to do it.

>>14524308
Would you say ocean waves are composed of waves or.particles?
Music sound waves in air?

Do you think the small particle waves you speak of are like little wiggling worms that travel from sun to earth, or like long ropes that extend from the sun to earth?.


A percentage of light impacts the earths atmosphere and is reflected away, a percent impacts the surface and is reflected, what general percent would you posit travels through the earth to the center?

>>14524297
The field waves aren't composed of parts, they are continuous.

they pull and repel, man

t. physics bsc student

>>14525026
>Do you think the small particle waves you speak of are like little wiggling worms that travel from sun to earth, or like long ropes that extend from the sun to earth?

They are non-bounded waves that are more likely to be detected in some area but nonetheless permeate all of space. As anon below you said, they are continuous and have no parts. The only thing that differentiates them is the difference between it and the other waves similar to the way you detect color but in and of itself it's just a wave.

>>14525220
>The field waves aren't composed of parts, they are continuous.
You don't measure the field waves, measuring field waves makes them no longer field waves

Is a newton's cradle set in motion (before It reaches rest again) continous ?

>>14525220
Are ocean waves and sound waves not continous?

>>14525408
>it's just a wave.
A wave of particular stuffness. A type of stuff. An ocean wave is a type of stuff. Air wave is of a different type of stuff (different types of stuff, but more related than other different types of stuff; for instance they are both atomic stuff).

EM wave is not atomic stuff. It is a different type of stuff.

You are saying this EM stuff exists at every point in space (besides where atomic stuff and gravity stuff and other stuff occupy) and it is waves; like squiggly up and down and or side to side waves (?) and this stuff never exists in a non waving state? Water and air can more and less be considered at spaces and times to be considered non waving;

But EM stuff, everytime we measure every point in space, we never detect EM stuff to be non waving?

3d4d area of space; EM waves are entering the cubic frame from every angle ;

This is one singular partless field medium area, yet without being composed of parts, different areas of it enter a cubic area from all possible directions and pass through?

Explain

>>14525695
>EM wave is not atomic stuff. It is a different type of stuff.
Yes and the waves occupy different fields but they are not "stuffs". The only difference in them is in how they interact with each other, not their composite make ups in an intuitive sense.
>You are saying this EM stuff exists at every point in space (besides where atomic stuff and gravity stuff and other stuff occupy) and it is waves; like squiggly up and down and or side to side waves (?) and this stuff never exists in a non waving state?
Yes, it only appears to be in a non waving state due to it being interacted with. Basically the electromagnetic field permeates all of space therefore the electromagnetic wave permeate all of spaces and only mathematically seems localized due it it being that for all intents and purposes. It's just that probably of observing it somewhere after interacting with it will be a much higher percentage than somewhere else so it will seem localized.
>Water and air can more and less be considered at spaces and times to be considered non waving;
The key word is "considered" all things that contain energy are wave packets when zoomed in on.
>Explain
I want you to imagine a 3D cube. In this cube you have muiltiple fields in which the different types of forces and "particles" interact. The "particles" in this field don't really exist they permeate the entire fields yet are more likely to observed in certain spots than others after being interacted with, such that when you sum them up you come up with this idea of a particle, but it's just a mathematical tool to make things easier to compute. In reality the cube doesn't have a boundary.

>>14525870
>The "particles" in this field don't really exist they permeate the entire fields yet are more likely to observed in certain spots than others after being interacted with, such that when you sum them up you come up with this idea of a particle, but it's just a mathematical tool to make things easier to compute. In reality the cube doesn't have a boundary.


It's also possible the particles really do exist and EM fields are on thing but then to say electrons are like EM fields just of a different type, is pushing it and might be a case of you mistaking human tool mapping convention in that;

In a random room you can't possibly know the exact location of every electron; you can't map the location of every single electron. So if we make a real small room and control the number of electrons that enter, you still couldn't do it,but you may have more of a shot, so then the only shot you have is using probabilities, like topographic maps; saying if you shoot these electrons this way, there is a higher probability of them being at space E24 at time 12 than Q97 at time 12.

You can't say for certain, so you now are conflating your map tool as if it is a direct representation of reality itself.

It is one thing for EM to be the weirdest operating item system in the universe with it's unique existence and propagating style, but then to possibly falsely give this same attribute to the electron, is possibly overstepping bounds unjustly.

>>14525915
>It is one thing for EM to be the weirdest operating item system in the universe with it's unique existence and propagating style, but then to possibly falsely give this same attribute to the electron, is possibly overstepping bounds unjustly

You may be correct

>>14525870
I want you to imagine a 3d cube made vacuum inside.

We are floating in the middle of intergalactic space, and we leave this vacuumized cube which is 1000 square feet on each plane, and travel a mile away from it; you and I and a team of scientests are going to perform 2 trials:

1st) 100,000 scientests form a sphere around the cube a mile away from them with the cube directly in the center. They each have EM emitters and radiate EM towards the cube; it enters and exists the cube.

2nd trial) they do the same thing with electrons.

Questions:
You are saying before the emit the electrons, there are already electrons everywhere, but in their emitters they just send them with greater than surrounding velocity; so does a definite electron body travel from each emitter to and into the cube? Does it travel like a wiggling wave, how long about is it's body? It travels more like a wiggling worm, more like a wiggling jump rope, or more like a baseball?

And how does the light travel; again as well as electrons existing at every point in space, convieniently deffinitly not impossibly EM field also exists at every point in space; and when the 100,000 scientests emit their EM toward the cube; the space in-between the scientests and cube is full of em radiation sloshing all around from surrounding stars; but this EM they all emit, has particular signatures, and pierces and flows through all the other stuff in the way, and it too travels more like:
a) a wiggling worm born at point A, wiggles back and forth or up and down and dies at point Z
b) a wiggling jump rope, to give the impression of longer than a worm, a jump rope can be very very long
c) a baseball or water baloon pitched from point A to point Z
d) the EM field is like a medium full of tiny spheres, and EM radiation travels like the energy transfer of newton's cradle; it is not an up and down up and down wave wave; it is a graph tool map plotting of wave like registery; hit...hit...hit...hit
hithithithit

>>14513442
Yes.
Science is about modeling reality.
There'll always be fundamental concepts that we won't be able to deconstruct any further (similarly to axioms in mathematical theories).
The ultimate answer to "why" is "just because".

>>14525946
https://youtu.be/MmG2ah5Df4g

>>14525969
>>14525946
Go to 7 minute mark

>>14525959
>>14525969
I will watch the vid in a sec just wanna get this thought:

Do you know how big the universe might be, at least.

The earth is pretty big right, again at least, compared to a grain of sand, compared to an atom, compared to us;

Intergalactic space is much bigger than the earth, and much bigger than a grain of sand right.

A photon is much smaller than a grain of sand right.

You are saying the EM field/photon field is not made up of any parts!?!!?, That it is one single piece of thing stuff, stretching the expanse of the universe?!?!?!?!!!

And it is not made of parts, but; where an electron or neutron or proton exists, the EM field is cut off from itself; as a dam cuts a river off from itself; so the EM field has seperations,namely where non EM field things are; and these things move, meaning the areas of EM seperations changes.

All I'm trying to get at is, everything we know of is made of parts; the biggest things are just made of little parts, little things are just made of small seperate parts (probabilities, leaps of faiths, one specific electron orbiting my toenail is not the same exact electron orbiting in the metal of a fishing hook in China right now( like wise the EM wave hitting my radio antenae is not the same as the one hitting when I change the station)

Every single thing we know if is composed of smaller parts.... Except the absolutely largest thing we know that exists ( the tightly knit universe expanse filling) EM field.

That is enough in my opinion to be cautious of this 50/50 thought, and consider solutions for the posibility it is incorrect assuming and thinking, as well as all the ideas that can begin to poke holes in such a from the little I've seen, vague and ill grounded sentiment

>>14526061
Well, maybe it is.
But until you provide a model describing those parts and how they interact + that model has to agree with what we observe and also give ability to make extra predictions compared to current models.
Until you provide such model, that speculation is meaningless.
>it has to consist of smaller parts
It doesn't.
Or maybe it does but you have to show it first.

>>14526097
Ancients thought matter is continous and not made of atoms.
We are making the same mistake again

polarized aether and aether pressure... also there are NO attractive forces anywhere in the universe. All forces are more like, you know, a force and generally not attractive. Anything that looks like an attractive force is your perception of the event.

>>14526103
I'm a computer scientist, so personally I believe in discrete universe with finite information, but until someone shows a useful model meeting those criteria it's just that - my personal belief, not a science.

>>14526061
>That is enough in my opinion to be cautious of this 50/50 thought, and consider solutions for the posibility it is incorrect assuming and thinking, as well as all the ideas that can begin to poke holes in such a from the little I've seen, vague and ill grounded sentiment.

I don't think you are wrong for thinking that way. You may end up being correct maybe reality is infinitely divisible, I just think it would be more elegant in a wave form and much simpler.

>>14526097
What is the grounds for the model, even the first step to fathom that a 3d/4d thing could exist and have """"not parts""""".....of itself travel in different directions in itself?


How are there being seperate waves at all not suggest that the EM field is composed of parts, at least, these seperate waves?

A person sends 1 radio wave with rock music north, a person behind him sends radio wave of hip hop south, how would this be possible if the EM field was composed of no parts?

Consider a cube of jello on a plate, when I was a child and such I didn't think of atoms, I wouldn't have thought of parts, it seems like 1 single thing, multiple people can take a spoon and smack it from all sides, and this would send waves through it's body right?

Now the jello is made of atoms right, and the waves transfers between them?

Let's imagine it is possible for that same exact jello to exist not made of atoms not made of parts, so same spoon smack; what is the theoretical fathomed model as to how waves can transfer through a single large material medium composed of no parts

>>14526265
I didn't mean to imply infinitly divisible.

EM field is different stuff than atomic matter. Atomic matter exists in particular places. Atomic matter is believed to be composed of finite fundamental particles, I am questioning the proposed statements that the EM field is professed to exist at all points of space,.and be composed of no parts

>>14526349
Respond bub

>>14513312
I don't know and I don't care, because I'm a based pure mathematician

>google explains it all

>>14513312
It's called magic

>>14526349
Respond to this, we are on the cusp of getting somewhere

>>14513312
Magnets work because of electromagnetism,
and you can see electromagnetism exists because of how magnets behave.
Hope i helped.

>>14526349
The problem with spacetime / aether reborn / EM wave fluids is that they're hardly relative.
What is the reference frame? What gives you 1.0 C speed if you can't reference frame it?
Would planet going at 1 C prevent you from flashing a light bulb certain direction? Is the EM field moving with the planet itself? Where does it separate to other planets?

QFT and whatever another aether silly attempts scientists invented are huge copium, just disregard artificial speed limits and return to ancient particle science.

>>14527915
Materials having speed limits seems intuitive and logical, there is generally a speed limit how fast man can pitch a baseball, a machine, made of different materials can break that speed limit, but it too is limited.

The speed of light may as much a result of an alarmingly fast propagating universe extenting medium, be due to the earths consistent rapid velocity through that medium

>i know how magnets work
>no i cannot build a magnet
>no i can't explain where they come from
>no i cannot demonstrate any basis for my claims of superior knowledge
>t. typical /sci/anon

What is colour?

Gaps in a wavelength make our brain/eyes give us red? So what is this red? Gaps in a wavelength?

Makes no sense.

>>14528179
Forgot to add.

How can gaps in anything amount to a colour.

Remember, the eyes/brain gave us a colour from a gap, and so the colour you see IS? From a gap? Some serious blind faith going on here to makes these jumps.

>>14527915
If you take an electron and wave it up and down in one location 10,000 times, it will propagate away from its body EM radiation thoughout that activity, yes?

Where is that EM radiation that propagates coming from? Where and in what form is it in the moment before and leading up to the initial electron movement?

>>14528185
Chemical reactions

>>14513405
>>14513407
>>14513417
>>14513422
>>14513422
>Fucking Magnets This is how they Work.

>>14517313
I love it when they become speechless

>>14528221
Chemical reactions, give us red? So what is red that you see.

>>14528371
The brain/mind has an area which conciousness somehow takes place; materials and EM radiation from the environment enter the body, and interact with the brain/mind/conciousness interface; so that steak molecules experience you xyz and apple molecules give you the experience of jkl,

When the light wave reflects off a red apple and hits your conciousness interface, a chemical reaction takes place that shows you redness, when it reflects off a green apple, the light hits and a different chemical reaction takes place that shows greeness.

Consider instant polaroid color film cameras. Even if we were all colorblind all saw in black and white grey scale, it is different light waves causing different chemical reaction that results in a different chemical surface between the green and red apple in the film photo.

Even if in the head there is some digital symbolic representation of colors, obviously it is demarcated by some difference; differences enter, differences entering result in different interactions and actions on the inside.

MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION EVERYONE, I HAVE COME UPON A KEY QUESTION: MAY THE APPROPRIATE ELECTRON AND EM FIELD AUTHORITIES BE NOTIFIED, THANK YOU, THAT IS ALL, YOU MAY RETURN TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

If you take an electron and wave it up and down in one location 10,000 times, it will propagate away from its body EM radiation thoughout that activity, yes?

Where is that EM radiation that propagates coming from? Where and in what form is it in the moment before and leading up to the initial electron movement?

This is a key question

>>14515677
There is a very good reason spin is quantized - in 3 spatial dimensions, only bosons and fermions can exist by the spin-statistics theorem. Next, the spin degree of freedom represents the angular momentum of a spinful particle, which can be shown using commutation relations for such particles. Finally, the angular momentum of any particle (spin or orbital) can be coupled to the electromagnetic gauge field. These are all things one learns in upper-division physics courses in any undergraduate physics program, there is no reason to be elitist about it.

>>14528952
So a pole being attracted to another pole of a magnet (creating a measurable newtonian pull) is just about electrons occupying more space in a field than in common matter ?

>>14513342
If you were to view the electromagnetic spectrum as a whole, then magnetism is simply an aligned wavelength of interaction assembled during the big bang.

>>14530375
...don't tell me you guys don't know how magnets work for real...

>>14513312
prove it that you can understand it, also that you would not claim you did not understand it out of pure contrarianness.

Electric charges appear on particles that have two properties called weak isospin and weak hypercharge. This is because the weak force and the electromagnetism used to be the same force, the electroweak force, before the spontaneous symmetry breaking event separated them in two and the weak force got snared into the Higgs field at the beginning of the universe.

>>14530671
Lolollollol and thus spoke the lord, who sent the iso spin syemmetrt breaking event to the left of the homotropic garden let there be dark energy he spracht.and.thusly he seperated the vaulted gauge boson from the fermion fields and saw that it was good and then rested on a wave of higgs illusion

>>14530671
Nice you memorized the quantum bible, just link us the chapter and line next time so you don't have to write it again.

>>14525959
>The ultimate answer to "why" is "just because". No the answer is "I do not know" fucking retard

>>14525959
>The ultimate answer to "why" is "just because".
No the answer is "I do not know" fucking retard

>>14513342
I don't want to talk to no scientists.

>>14530671
Oh fuck off sperg

>>14528446
Nice attempt. But.
>that shows you redness
WHAT. IS. RED. EXACTLY.