/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14460482
No
Simply put, God wants each planet with life to develop completely independently of each other. He spaced us out so that this would be the case, so far apart that we will never know of each other’s existence.

>>14460482
Sharting out an "educated" guess about how common life "should" be doesn't establish anything; reality contradicting your guess means your guess was wrong. The only paradox is the midwit paradox, where IFLSers refuse to accept it when reality contradicts their fantasies, despite claiming to be empiricists.

>>14460482
having a slighty clearer view of stars isnt going to detect life, what the fuck are you smoking?

>>14460482
the biochemical seeds for life are everywhere in the galaxy. Sugars, nucleotides and amino acid precursors are ubiquitous on meteorites, comets and interstellar dust / molecular clouds. Life will develop anywhere so long as the correct conditions are met. The Fermi paradox is nonsense, the universe is teeming with life, we just don't know how to detect it yet and nothing indicates that it should be easy to begin with

>>14461382
Webb can do much more than that.

>Webb detects life millions of planets
>its just trillions more people
the worst possible outcome

>>14461526
It can actually analyze atmosphere of exoplanets. Signs of life are not hard to find.

>>14461450
While the various biochemical precursors of life are very common, it is way too soon to claim that "life will develop anywhere conditions are met" - abiogenesis is very poorly understood, with a sample size of 1. It could be common, or it could be absurdly rare (like once per galactic supercluster every 50 billion years rare), and Earth just lucky. It is simply too soon to tell.

And you seem to misunderstand the the Fermi "paradox" - it poses the question "Since the universe is so big and so old, why aren't the aliens here? After all, according to the laws of physics it should be possible to send nuclear powered probes to every star in the galaxy within a few million years." Life could very well be common, just none of it smart enough to build such probes yet, that would be one possible solution to the Fermi paradox. There are many other proposed solutions (intelligent life always destroys itself before it can build such probes, our understanding of engineering challenges of building said probes is incorrect, and even species with a million year head start on us can't do it, the probes are here, just hiding, etc); thinking of these solutions, and ways to test them is an amusing intellectual exercise. And some of those tests can actually be done - James Webb should be able to do sprectrographic analysis of nearby exoplanets, which may give us hints on if life is common or not.

>>14461450
>we just don't know how to detect it yet
Every time we get better at detecting life the universe gets more and more barren than previously thought possible

>>14462364
I literally stated in my post that we could be wrong about it being physically possible, as a possible solution to the paradox. Remember that the question does not ask "why hasn't a species that has had nuclear power & space flight for 60 years built an interstellar probe?" the question is "why hasn't a a species with a thousand, ten thousand, or a hundred thousand years to develop those technologies built then?"

And yes, it may very well be physically impossible to build such probes, even if a civilization has a million years to work on it. Figuring out where our understanding of physics & engineering is wrong about this would be a useful thing to know.

What do you think is the limiting physical factor? Saying that because we haven't done it yet, so it must be impossible is a pretty poor answer.

>>14462468
>mentally ill jewish style revenge fantasies
...

>>14462468
And what does that have to do with potential physical limitations that would prevent interstellar probes from being built? Saying that because a Jew who liked grandiose larping came up with the original idea, it must be impossible, is also a poor argument. Jews have come up with plenty of ideas, both good & bad, that turned out to be perfectly possible to do later on.

>>14460482
>real paradox
the "fermi" "paradox" is based on conjectures atop conjectures. there's no paradox.

>>14460482
>that lens flare
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>we need to look for Earth like planets to find lifeforms exactly like us!
why? is 7 billion parasites not enough?

>>14460482
No...it means they need mo money fo dem programs

>>14460482
It is already a real paradox. It would only take a few millions years for aliens to spread all over the galaxy. They should already be here, and everywhere else. We should also already see megastructures.

We are alone.

>>14460482
There's no paradox, people just don't want to let go of astronomy's old romanticism, when people thought we would find life on Mars, Venus, etc. It doesn't discount the possibility of extraterrestrial life still, but it would more or less prove there is no other intelligent life in our galaxy.

>>14462333
>>14462431
>>14462488
>>14462974
>>14462964

brainful posts

>>14462984
This means absolutely nothing. Universe used to be much more chaotic in the past. Earth needed billions of years of stability to create intelligent life.

>>14460482
>Implying that if they found evidence of life, they would announce it

They've been saying it for years, but you people have been conditioned to only believe what the authority instructs you to believe.

>>14463826
Nope, the universe was quite similar to modern universe for billions of years already. Also, most of the time on Earth nothing was happening, just waiting for random chance to take us to the next step. It could very well happen much sooner elsewhere.

Little question from a retard. If we take 8 months to reach mars and we are unable to prove or disprove that life ever existed on mars how in hell are we going to decide it about exoplanets that are light years far from us?

>>14460482
While the number of planets out there are mind boggling, the odds of life developing are so infinitesimally small. First you need a planet near a star that can sustain life. To large and the star will die too quickly or emit to much radiation. Too small and you may not be around a star where you have enough energy or protection. While the "Goldilocks" isn't as tiny as some people like to make it, it still exists. You need to be on a planet with water or some kind of liquid solvent with properties that allow for chemical reactions needed for life. This is a tough one because liquids do not naturally form within the zone terrestrial planets tend to exist within the star's orbit. The planet needs to have a wide range of elements accessible on its crust for complex life. If life tends to form near geothermal vents like suspected on Earth, the planet needs to be geothermally active at some point. The planet also needs geothermal activity to create a magnetic field to block access radiation. Then you need inorganic matter to become organic matter, which is an unknown process, the odds of which happening on any given planet is probably unbelievably small. Then said organic matter needs to orange itself into molecules life needs to exist. Then those molecules need to organize themselves in a form that displaces entropy, is chemically active, can sustain itself, and experience some form of evolution. You'll need selective pressures from that point that lead to complexity, more massive energy storage, production and eventually intelligence. There are many more factors on top of this. Each of these are near 0 chances of happening. Even if you manage to meet one of these, you still have another near 0 odd event to happen. Even if there are 10^10, 10^100, 10^10000 planets in the universe there is a very real chance we are the only intelligent lifeforms.

>>14464666
Also, I know I misspelled a bunch here in my schizo rant. But You know what I'm saying.

>>14462964
Not this shit again. Mega structures are a meme. Dyson spheres are a meme. And with modern tech it's impossible to say if something we observed is a planet or earth sized space station.

>>14462371
Or we're just looking for the wrong signs

>>14460482
Well some grant needing people seem to have taken the EROI schizo idea and just scaled it saying civilization burns out from expansion or reaches homeostasis and its not gonna show much. But it's just another theory. It's going to take a few more decades for negative refractory metamaterials to make it into scientist hands and then we will be pod racing as far as resolution goes.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2022.0029

>>14465070
It's fun watching you guys throw your own rope. EROI collapse conjecture has us going in a nose dive right now. If humanity holds on for a few more decades metamaterials will be incorporated into telescopes. It's worked out it needs funding and testing which is decades in real terms. It means overcoming resolution limits and pushing them substantially. With proper deployment atmospheric resolution of exoplanets could be possible. Then we can put the paradox to an actual test.

https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/files/54547502/FULL_TEXT.PDF

https://opg.optica.org/josab/abstract.cfm?uri=josab-26-11-1994

https://physicsworld.com/a/microwave-absorbing-tiles-boost-the-sensitivity-of-large-telescopes/

Further research will show you other studies and methods have been and continue to be researched.

I personally feel collapse before awakening for us if we get lucky enough to survive.

>>14460482
The Fermi Paradox was only necessary because Drake gave wildly large estimates. More conservative estimates using Bayesian statistics estimate maybe a dozen civilizations in the entire galaxy.

>>14463837
I have seen multiple UFO's and one extremely close passing overhead. It was covered in plasma and had a delta shape and made no sound. I know people who participated in the lunar rover program who claim the astronauts ran into American antigravity based aircraft and were not very happy. I've spoken with old engineers seen blueprints for fighter jet prototype testbeds no civilian should have been shown and given simple answers. Aurora is ours. TR3-B is ours and he would only say exotic propulsion. Said we had nuclear rockets good to go and removed evidence for them. Got to see low level installations for military hidden in plain sight. People guess at the level of compartmentalization and it being hidden but the reality is it's everywhere and one hand knows not what the other does and is fed erroneous information as to what project goals are. NASA and the lunar race were a convenient way to put a friendly and dramatic public face on space while America and Russia scrambled to weaponize it. Outside contact has always been obfuscation as it's a great distraction. If humanity was being visited from outside or within from another dimension their technology to us would be like being an ant walking into the hand of a human. It would have no frame of reference or understanding. Unfortunately the reality is far more sinister. The release of these technologies on the world at this time may lead to total annihilation. Their power is unprecedented.

>>14460482
not at all. aliens are already here they just have nothing to say to us. they are waiting for us to pass the singularity. otherwise there'd be nothing to talk about.

>>14463841
Complete bullshit.

>>14465104
>More conservative estimates using Bayesian statistics estimate maybe a dozen civilizations in the entire galaxy.

The Paradox still applies then. More than a few civilizationa per galaxy group means we should already see them. They likely had enough time to colonize the whole group many times over.

>>14461467
Like? I'm interested.

>>14460488
Through Satan we shall reach each other and connect

>>14460482
The solution to the fermi paradox is that the gravitational field is being manipulated intelligently and most civilizations that survive the discovery of computers (the beginning of the singularity) create and integrate themselves into black holes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cstKRACrMQY&t=1466s

>>14467554
see also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhA-cm00XeU&t=620s

>>14462886
no, the universe's negentropy can support up to 10^54 human life equivalents in this light cone. This enormous amount of potential human life equivalent means that it is entirely justified to reduce the present population to 25% of what it is now to prevent extinction of humanity. Because 5 billion lives are nothing compared to 10^54 human life equivalents. It's just a drop in the bucket.

>>14462886
That face fits perfectly with your take, Anon

>>14467535
Nice dick, Asan.

>>14467554
https://cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/111F04/lloyd-ng-sciam-04.pdf

>>14464056
Life farts and we can detect the signature of those farts using telescopes

>>14467573
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtpWt4MexMU&t=2480s

>>14467457
Can actually analyze the atmosphere of planets outside solar system. We may actually detect life with it.

>>14460488
Then why fill up space with other shit in between? Also, when does 'development' stop? Because if we can go colonize the stars (it'll take a while but not that long at all in cosmic terms) we'll run into each other eventually.

>>14460482
>those lens flares
aren't they meant to be adjusting the mirrors and shit?

>>14467813
I want to make new life with you.

>>14462886
kys

cosmology isn't science, its just grandiose fantasy play.
>you can't prove me wrong because you didn't witness the start of the universe
is not scientific reasoning, science hinges on the disprovability of ideas.

>>14467225
ayys already visited Earth and seeded the planet with life billions of years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHpJr7_5Mjg

Earth is flat
Space is fake
Kill yourself retards

>>14468149
this is your brain on memes

>>14468211

>>14468149
Earth is flat
Space is fake
Kill yourself retards
Go drown in the lake

I finished your poem, bro.

>>14467554
furthermore, the oldest civilizations will be the ones that the universe selects for survival of catastrophic cosmologies like the Big Crunch scenario, either transforming themselves into forms that survive cosmological destruction and creation events, or ones that can re-assemble themselves by encoding their reconstruction information into the initial parameters of a cosmological destruction event

it may be possible that we are the inheritors of such a civilization

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPZ-uWirIN4

>>14468252
if it were true that we were the inheritors of a civilization surviving the initial chaos of the big bang, and that the way we survived it was encoding ourselves into the initial parameters, it would be interesting to look for other "code", material or information-theoretic affordances in the cosmos that was meant for us to make the transition to increasingly Kardashev scale civilizations, like how calculus was derived from observing planets

>>14468290
my personal theory is that the earth, from a cosmological point of view, is like an egg waiting to be seeded by life, to split and reproduce itself to form an organism spanning the solar system, reproducing itself beyond the heliosphere until it encounters another similiar system

bump

>>14460495
yep

>>14460488
Wrong, bitch. The aliens know about us and have been visiting for centuries. Thank you and have a blessed day.

>>14462333
"our understanding of engineering challenges of building said probes is incorrect, and even species with a million year head start on us can't do it"

that one sounds awesome, like yeah sorry aliens, you guys are just too dumb and retarded to build probes, you need high iq to do so and only we have that so

>>14460482
>Fermi Paradox
...is not a "paradox", bcoz Fermi assumed knowledge (without evidence) of whether aliens were "here" or not.
A false paradox is not a "paradox".

>>14460482
>This near blind person (Hubble) says that he can't see anything therefore no aliens
>This slightly less near blind person (Webb) also says that he can't see anything therefore no aliens
Nice science fags. Call me when we can see the literal surface of every planet in our galaxy in high resolution and if there are no signs of life, then and only then might you actually be onto something.

>>14462964
>We should already see megastructures

see
>>14467554

or perhaps the strategy for any civilization is to miniaturize instead of grow big

>>14468216
>he doesnt support both abortion and the death penalty

>>14463837
Basically this, but soience lovers are too submissive and just accept whatever (((NASA))) or (((WHO))) tells them.
They even belive that 6 million Jews were killed with zyklon B lmaooo

>>14460495
This. Until we've properly figured out abiogenesis, any expectations about the "supposed" frequency of life are completely baseless conjecture.

>>14460482
there's no goddamn paradox, space is clearly fake. anyone with a three-digit
IQ can make similar pictures like nasa in freeware in a matter of minutes.
the people behind nasa must be wearing diapers all day from laughing so hard at your gullibility and lack of imagination that they lose all bodily control.

>>14470156
do you own a telescope?

>>14468290
Congrats, you just kinda described Stargate Universe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmr80Bf0zg

>>14468290
>>14468252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npmDbbGbSoE

I wonder what Fermi would think of being known mostly by the masses for some musings about the potential for non earth life in the universe rather than, ya know, nuclear fission.

bump

>>14470105
I only support me killing people, I can't risk giving that power to someone else

>>14460495
The Fermi paradox wasn't an educated guess, it was an incredibly uneducated guess built on half-baked assumptions. The probability of X mutation arising on Y ancestor and X ancestor breeding, over thousands of millions of years of life, is so far remote that to think it magically happens is laughable. The people who think DUDE ALIEEENS have no understanding of evolution, or rather a pop-sci understanding, and think it is an alive process that improves the lifeforms until intelligent life is an inevitability. This is what the shitheads who concocted and who still perpetuate this nonsense believe. They're just coping and want there to be something else out there. In all reality, we're very likely the only intelligent organisms in the entire universe at this point in time. If we're lucky, it might have happened at one point before or after, and that's only assuming they've reached our level of civilization. This dyson star and spacefleet stuff is so laughable it isn't funny, yet idiots profess it to be certain based on their flawed, non-probability (in regards to evolution) analysis.

>>14460495
Yes and retards still think intelligent life == radio signals.
>>14467576
agree here. There are billions of worthless resource hogs.
>>14467821
Once you become super intelligent and bored, you merge with your galaxy's super massive black hole, preserving your information for trillions of years.

>>14470602
>Grandiose delusions are characterized by fantastical beliefs that one is famous, omnipotent, wealthy, super-intelligent or otherwise very powerful. The delusions are generally fantastic and typically have a religious, science fictional, or supernatural theme.

>>14460488
Absolutely absurd. God created us to be both social and explorers. Life is all around us.
>>14460482
I still believe that if ayys exist then they would probably have ways to quarantine our solar system from artificial outside EM signatures and only allow natural stuff through. Forces intelligent species to develop on their own without outside aid.

The Fermi Paradox was always real. It's literally just "Why haven't we seen aliens when the universe is so big?" We don't know the answer. It could be anything. A valid answer could be that we just haven't been able to detect them.

>>14460482
Can they remove that diffraction pattern?

>>14460482
Dark forest, baby
>https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/the-dark-forest-theory-a-terrifying-explanation-of-why-we-havent-heard-from-aliens-yet/

>>14460482
>life is just really really rare
"paradox" btfo immediately

>>14472620
more like
>life is really hard to distinguish from non-life

>>14472620
This
Humans really are the only highly intelligent lifeforms in the visible universe.
At least unless Webb finds another lol

>>14472808
again, what makes you think you have the ability to distinguish "intelligent" life from non living matter and energy?

The other poster reminded me of a good point.

Paradox never exist. Fiction.

This reality does not allow for paradox.

the aliens are already here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzbUeubAGxY

>>14472850
Intelligent life are organic molecules composed of carbon and oxygen organized into DNA and multicellular life. There's a clear distinction between life matters and non living matter.

>>14472922
you're limiting yourself to the only type of life you can recognize in your current world as such, when in reality any form of automata that can reproduce and carry constructor information could be considered as living

>>14472922
Do you think AI is capable of intelligence?

>>14471316
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0TubBtQT4s

>>14472941
Nope
>>14472945
No

>>14460488
I WILL fuck a hot alien bitch.

>>14472974
>>14472922
>Nope, the only basis for intelligent life is Carbon! It's impossible to think of any other basis for a self-replicating system that maintains homeostasis with its environment

>>14473003
Only carbon can form indefinitely long covalent bonds with itself, which is required to form the host of molecules needed for the complexity of life. No other element has this property.

>>14473025
>only carbon works because our current carbon-based life requires indefinitely long covalent bonds
your argument is still built on "from the biology we're familiar with"

>>14473047
>your argument is still built on "from the biology we're familiar with"
And your position is built on literally nothing.

>>14460495
SPBD
This is a really good paper discussing how pants on head retarded unlikely abiogenesis appears to be with current knowlege and it's seriously tenable that abiogenesis will not occur outside our solar system for the lifetime of the universe plus much longer.
https://biologydirect.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1745-6150-2-15

If you are a naturalist then the strongest position by far is that humans are the only intelligent life the universe will ever see.

>>14460482
Stoned ape theory

>>14473084

Could just be that naturalism is wrong and retarded since it uses circular reasoning and defeats itself

How serious are researchers about trying to use the James Webb space telescope in order to find signs of life?
Like if you could write a list of priorities where would it be?
I assume collecting data about the early universe is the most important reason for the James Webb space telescope?

>>14473084
abiogenesis and intelligent life are vastly different things
but i agree that intelligent life will be very rare considering what would be required of the star and planet over the course of billions of years

>>14473178
exoplanets are big on the list. i don't know how different projects would be ranked, but they made sure to give researchers from different specialties each plenty of time

>>14473178
They are looking for exoplanets capable of harboring life within their sun's habitable zone. Not necessarily aliens, but a planet capable of life.

>>14460482
I think the mistake is thinking intelligent life will be bigger and therefore easy to detect like a Dyson swarm but who knows, they may go nano.
Intelligent life on our level at the same time in our galaxy is probably really rare.
The best we can probably find is exo-planets suitable for life, nothing else.

>>14460482
Asimov's Extraterrestrial Civilizations is a great (non fiction) read on this subject. He details why life on different planets will most likely never make contact, even if it's relatively widespread in the universe.

>>14461467
>>14467457
Webb can make me a sandwich.

No matter what we find it's gonna be sick.

>>14465163
Holy shit
Meds NOW

>>14460482
it should make you start to believe in a divine being. For if the probability is so low it is basically impossible how can a god not exist.

>>14473729
>they may go nano.
the only way to pack a lot of mass and energy into a small space is to create a black hole

see
>>14467554

>>14474477
Highly improbable =/= impossible. Take a course on logic 101 FFS.

>>14464666
This.

>>14475363
>enter a thread about the Fermi paradox
>get buttmad by wild conjecture
>blame it on other brainlets

>>14460482
test

>>14460482
I'll be very excited if we continue to find no life with better equipment. Anthropics and all.

Its simple. We will colonize the universe and then a dark age will happen causing all colonies and the homeworld to lose contact. Through millions of years of evolution we will all become different species and reconnect with each other as aliens.

>>14475555
Uh, no. We'll just make aliens when we feel like it.

>>14460482
Not only does intelligent life need to overcome a staggering amount of factors in order to arise, and thrive, but you also have to add another factor to the equation. T, the number of intelligent civilizations which are living close enough in each other's world lines for them to have the possibility of ever detecting each other. This sends an already extremely unlikely thing (intelligent life) into the realm of "this probably isn't happening within the current age of the universe" (two intelligent civilizations being close enough in space/time for them to ever detect each other.

We are alone.

>>14473052
I saw it in a dream.

>>14460482
Lets say Webb detects life, and i mean actual advance life. It would be so far away it would be impossible to reach or communicate with, so what difference would it make?

Its a genuine question btw, im interesting of hearing your thoughts of how would it affect society and science the discovery of advance, but unreachable life.

>>14460482
What if life doesn't need conditions similar to Earth ones.

I just want to see JWSt's version of this

>>14460488
God didn't create anything

>>14476709
the best we could possibly do with it is finding a planet with an "impossible" atmosphere. e.g. oxygen could only happen biologically.

>NASA just released the most recent james .webm

>>14477613
Ayyyyyyyyy

>>14477368
nice, ultra deep field was my wallpaper back in the day
when JWST does its equivalent, it's gonna be one of the most iconic astronomical pics of the 21st century

>>14477613
wtf is this real

>>14476709
try to learn from them

>>14460482
No, you can't make any statistically significant conclusions from a sample of size 1.

>>14478174
what do you mean by this

>>14477371
no but the elohim and Ahriman created a bunch ;)

>>14477270
any reproducing automata that can adapt to its environment I would call living

>>14477368
Soon [tm]

>>14467576
You can help by setting an example for others to follow.

>>14473178
The cycle 1 observation program has the following categories:
> Exoplanets and Discs
> Galaxies
> Itergalactic Medium and the Circumgalactic Medium
> Large Scale Structure of the Universe
> Solar System Astronomy
> Stellar Physics and Stellar Types
> Stellar Populations and the Interstellar Medium
> Supermassive Black Holes and AGN

The first category includes 16 studies of exoplanet atmospheres.

>>14460488
>/sci/
>God
dude....

Life originates in/on brown dwarf stars.

>>14462371
It is still expanding after all,

>>14470571
Yup. My rule of thumb would be (or something like it, massage the numbers) life at all is one body in a million, eukaryotic life (or similar) is one in a million of those, macroscopic life is one on a million of those, and intelligent life is one in a million of those, with one time in a multi-billion year evolution

>>14470571
There are too many unknowns in the Drake equation. We have a good idea of how many stars there are in the galaxy, and we are getting an idea of what fraction of stars have planets, but for everything else, all we can say is that the development of life, leading to a technological civilization, isn't impossible.

>>14478714
There are scheduled surveys of the Hubble Ultra Deep Field, but they aren't on the early-release program, so expect results in 2023.

>>14480819
When are they gonna do the super duper ultra giga deep field? They should call it the Marianas Trench field LOL!

>>14480863
Three more adjectives? That's at least thirty years away.

I'm quickly Google searching these numbers so don't @ me if they're a little wrong
>Earth forms roughly 4.6 billion years ago
>The first single celled life proliferated about 1 billion years after that (3.8-3.5 bya)
>Then it took about another billion years til 2.7 bya to get to Eukaryotic life (to put the mitochondria in the cell)
>Multicellular life only formed about 1 bya
>And simple animals began to appear only 600 mya (lol, lmao)
>The universe is only 13.8 billion years old
>FTL travel is probably NOT a thing
>Then it took a few million years for humans to become intelligent enough to make anything resembling what we've done in the last 600 years
> And we still don't know whether technology is going to destroy or enslave us (as it adapts and evolves just like any organism, read Ted Kaczynski)
>Meanwhile all of this had to happen on a planet WITH a magnetic field, a certain distance from the sun for a certain consistency of warmth, and a relatively calm local interstellar environment with Jupiter collecting up most of the asteroids that might've hit Earth
Since we only have one data point on life, we can't reasonably assume that it could come about much faster, but we can assume that it could happen slower
And even if there ARE bacterial mats somewhere outside the local galactic group we will never get to them without FTL

I don't know man. I just think with how young the universe is there simply hasn't been time for these conditions to all come together enough yet
I mean when you start knocking down these variables from the Drake equation it gets really narrow really fast

>>14480959
Hey here's a fun fact :)
It took 3.5 billion years for humans to evolve from first single celled life :)
In 2.8 billion years from now Earth will be devoid of life because of rising luminosity of the Sun :)
If all life were to go extinct on Earth because human fucked it up, statistically there may never be another intelligent life form on earth :)

>>14480959
>I just think with how young the universe is there simply hasn't been time for these conditions to all come together enough yet

we don't know how old the universe is, it may be infinitely old

see
>>14470350

hyperintelligent beings may have seeded the big bang (in a cyclic model) or evolved from conditions close to the beginning to set up the laws of the universe that allowed for our evolution

>>14480274
>Current year + 7
>still believing in the false science/religion dichotomy

>>14481098
Hey goy, if you're not a devoted follower of jewish jesus then you have to be an atheist worshiper of jewish einstein the science god, those are your only choices.

bump

>>14480754
>we are getting an idea of what fraction of stars have planets
they basically all do. 5000 exoplanets now discovered. wherever the imaging allows, we see planets.
>all we can say is that the development of life, leading to a technological civilization, isn't impossible.
we can say that even on cosmological timescales, runaway cognitive expansion won't happen often.
with all its relative stability, varied climates and environments, rich chemistry, balance of land and water, etc, earth could only do it once in 4.5 billion years. that's not a good track record for near perfect conditions and we know there just wont be many "perfect" planets.

Webb, JWST.
The James Webb Space Telescope

From distant stars and planets to dawn of time itself, this telescope will transform our view of the universe in every direction it is pointed.
It's launch it beckoned in an exciting new age of astronomy; The Age Of Webb.

Guaranteed life is abundant. You just have to look at how adaptive it's become here on Earth. I'd say, 1 in 5,000 rocky planets in the habitable zone will develop. Be happy to be wrong and have it be 1 in 1000.

So intelligent life.... yes, but the time and space distances is just too much for detection. We're more likely to find forests and dinosaurs then cities. Think of how long cities have been here on earth, our like out there shows evidence of dinosaurs not civilization.

Intelligent life is out there. Maybe hundreds in our milky way at one point or another in history. We may never get to say hello.

>>14483778

More photos

>>14483778

Moar

>>14483778

Keep in mind those are just engineering images. Webb isn't even trying yet.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/wp-content/uploads/sites/326/2022/05/spitzer_vs_webb_LMC.gif

>>14483778
>source: nasa
>bbc

>>14483778

>>14460488
>Simply put, God wants each planet with life to develop completely independently of each other.

If God exists, why does life even need to develop? That would imply evolution.

>>14483834
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point

>>14460488
why didnt he put you that far away from me then

who actually gives a fuck about alien life? i just want cool star pics

google 'rendlesham forest ufo', one of the best documented cases

>>14462371
kek

>>14472941
biologists are still sure if viruses are life

>>14485406
>sure
unsure

>>14484095
Anon, when we meet the aliens we will be able to exchange awesome desktop wallpapers taken from completely different angles.

>>14483787
>>14483791
Christ, 90% of those images is diffraction spikes. What a disappointment

>>14471027

>>14485406
viruses are automata that require a specific environment to reproduce, they're just like us just smaller and "less complex"

>>14461450
Not what you think.
https://youtu.be/W1_KEVaCyaA

>>14486811
>Not what you think

what's your take?

>>14486813
Probably seeded by extraterrestrials. DNA is advanced artificial intelligence coding.

>>14487506
do you think DNA itself is an intelligent machine?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6204761/

>>14489111
I don't attribute any sentience to DNA. In what way does the article you posted imply anything like that? It just seems like a very finely tuned building block that was created rather than mixed in an accidental soup - see the above vid I posted.

The Fermi Paradox is based on the idea that the universe is filled with life and yet aliens haven't visited us. So if the JWST fails to find any life in the universe, that actually makes the Fermi Paradox nonexistent. There's nothing paradoxical about the fact that aliens haven't visited us if they don't even exist in the universe to begin with.

>>14467225
What is the motivation to colonize a million planets? If you have everything you need in your little region, you might as well just stay there and go fuck catgirls in VR

>>14489678
>>14467225
or a la

>>14471316
they're hiding on purpose

>>14460495
>>14473084
if abiogenesis is so unlikely then why did it already happen less than 1 billion years after the earth had formed? that's extremely early in the history of the universe.

>>14489712
because there will always be "that one guy" who wants to colonize stuff (e.g. Elon Musk) even if 99.99% of the population doesn't care. it only takes one person being interested and they can do it with enough time.

>>14489712
Also, natural selection will select for the types of creatures who want to spread copies of themselves. So you might as well have asked chimps "why did you evolve into humans you were already content in trees eating bananas right?" Evolution is never content. It always wants more more more

>>14473003
? retard
Silicon was recently shown not to be able to allow for life in the same way Carbon can.

lmao at a bunch of renters grandiosely bantering about colonizing other planets. you can't even establish a permanent home for yourself on your own planet.

>>14490352
You're a stupid faggot, fuck off.

>>14490352
>you can't even establish a permanent home for yourself on your own planet.
that's sort of why we're interested in colonizing other planets though... the pilgrims that went to america had the same problem.

>>14489839
>>14489843
The first couple of planets would of course still be exciting and cool, but I think at some point it just starts seeming pointless to expand further. Plus it requires endless population growth, when we're already observing dwindling birthrates when a certain quality of life is reached, so who would even be populating all those planets

>>14490557
>so who would even be populating all those planets
self-replicating machines, not biological people. they also wouldn't be "populating" the planets. they would just be stripping the planets of resources that could be used to create more self-replicating machines. this is the logical conclusion of natural selection.
https://grabbyaliens.com/

>>14460488
there's no such thing as god

>>14490310
did I say Silicon? any automata in any medium that reproduces and carries genetic information with it counts as life, and there's no way Carbon in a low energy earth setting is the only medium for life

>>14490571
There is a scientific possibility that god exists. Prove me wrong.

>>14462886
Perhaps it is, but we need to know.
We need to know if we are special. So fucking special. But we are creeps, we are losers, so we take giant ass telescopes and stalk other life

I was at a party this weekend and I met an astrophysicist there. We ere talking about JWST and he said that the spectrometry capabilities of the telescope are for gas giants, not Earth sized planets.

>>14491730
He is correct. JWST was not built for planet hunting. The space telescope you're thinking of is LUVOIR, which isn't going to be much better than Kepler. LUVOIR's suggested aperture size was 15m, with a scaled down version (called LUVOIR-B) coming in at 8m. Reality? LUVOIR is going to have a 5~6m aperture, which is very primitive for planet hunting. And LUVOIR is still a good 20 years away.

You can forget about true earth-like planets being found in your lifetime. All that money will go to the military instead.

>>14491790
Interesting. He also mentioned there were ideas for small spacecraft to obscure stars and aid in boosting a telescope's sensitivity to exoplanets. Theoretically JWST could be fitted with one.

>>14489678
One way or the other its worthless because we cannot really tell if aliens visited us, unless you expect non stealth approach, literally landing on time aquare which is fucking moronic, I think even we are not as stupid to do that on an alien planet.

>>14483834
>God exists, why does life even need to develop? That would imply evolution.
Maybe it's easier to enact a few laws than to model and build everything at your own or advise your staff what to do.

>>14490571

bump

>>14467821
>we'll run into each other eventually.
No, that's not a guarantee at all. Not even when all parties have access to indefinite near-light speed means of travel.

>>14491473
>and there's no way Carbon in a low energy earth setting is the only medium for life
Not that anon but why not?
It is very much possible that within the laws of physics and chemistry on carbon in low energy settings can form life.

>>14493960
I refuse to believe the only automata capable of reproduction and homeostasis, within all the limit bounds of time and space, are here on earth

>>14492953
Kardashev be kidding me

>>14495606
kardasheev

Just want to live long enough to see an American flag planted on the black hole

>>14492953
Don't know what it means but I heard our universe has 0 information content. If that's the case, won't take no Type V to simulate the universe, shit

cause you are not ready yet?

hence fermi paradox..?

>>14462333
If the universe is only some billions years old, and complex life on earth took some billions of years to form, it's possible there is some relative range of possible complex life developing rate, and that it's hard enought to make insects, and then further more to make mice and squirrels, and then 100,000s years of precursors to intelligent man, who then needs time to construct surrounding planet material into intersteller projectile craft..

We don't know where in the age of the universe, in our Galaxy (the concept of intergalactic travel seems even more daunting, the what billions? Or just millions of solar systems in our Galaxy are enough to consider), Humans rate in terms of speed of coming into existence of complex intelligent space faring life forms,

It could be safe to assume we are not the first or last, odds are in the middle of that time line.

But who knows how large the rates and ranges are, how fast after the creation of the universe, in the milky way, life formed on how many planets, and space faring life how long after that. And then, out of all the solar system on earth, which ones.

It seems obvious to assume on all life baring planets in the solar system, all of them would have to start off on the smallest scales as was the case of earth, and planets and elements, being deaf blind and dumb as they are, this takes a very very very long time.

Kind of intersting to consider then, that at one time earth was all micro micro entities, and as a possible microcosm of the galaxies, micros and micros combined, and combined, and then there were many many many complex life forms of substantial size and abilities.

Naturally this idea of diversity extends to the Galaxy, in the thought of aliens, different settings, ratios of elements, gravity, sun proximity, revolution, rotation, as different eco systems of earth produce the many mamals, different planets produce the different forms of life still.

>>14496167
All the diversity of life on earth, all the different life forms, and yet based on the same foundational idea of DNa system, one wonders how many other foundational reproductive methods are possible in other planetery circumstances

How many exo planets can the scope see? How well?

With this telescope, if the telescope was near those exoplanets looking at earth, could it detect earths man made satelites?

>>14460482
There is no "paradox". SPACE IS FAKE. PERIOD.

/sci/cucks are so willing to buy "Simulation Theory" and such so long as it comes from a famous Science Priest, but if SIMULATION THEORY is REAL then why is it far fetched to think space is fake in the simulation and only Earth is simulation? FUCK YOU that's why. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

>>14470200
>do you own a telescope?
NASA says you would need a 10 meter across telescope JUST to see the Lunar Lander on the moon:
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/physics/45-our-solar-system/the-moon/the-moon-landings/122-are-there-telescopes-that-can-see-the-flag-and-lunar-rover-on-the-moon-beginner
YOUR "SCIENCE" ADMITS THIS. So the age-old meme that fools use "HA! The moon landing is real because you can see it with a telescope! Do you even own a telescope?" is false. Just a cope that they repeat. The ONLY telescopes capable of "seeing the moon landing" is owned by NASA and the ONLY photos of the "moon landing" by telescope are produced BY NASA.

It's all FAKE.

>>14496170
none

>>14464666
use Read Aloud: A Text to Speech Voice chrome Extensions

>>14498054
>How many exo planets can the scope see?
none
>How well?
it can't
>With this telescope, if the telescope was near those exoplanets looking at earth, could it detect earths man made satelites?
no, it wouldn't even see jupiter.

>>14470200
you don't

>>14498376
>>14498352
it's time for your meds anon!

>>14485371
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4FHYguJzu4

I WANT TO SEE A UFO PLEEEASEE I WANT TO SEE A UFO NOWWW OH MY GOD ITS JUST SO UNFAIR THAT THESE MILITARY PERSONELL GET TO FUCKING SEE THE UFOS. SEE THE SUPER ADVANCED EINSTEINIAN NANO SINGULARITY SPACE SHIPS AND I DONT. FUCK THIS GAY EARTH. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY? i want to see with my own very eyes can these aliens giga teleport to my house and instantly feed my mind with a shit load of information? my fucking god theres no hope... oh well maybe the next life

>>14489828
Anthropic interpretation of many worlds theory = you wouldn't witness reality to know how unlikely it is because, being a witness, you are from a universe where the abiogenesis occurred. Highly circular and reliant upon parallel universes. The basic interpretation is that we must be alone in the universe, even if there are aliens in the multiverse sure to abiogenesis. Also: even if you could travel between universes you would never find the aliens because it's too improbable to find the right universe.

>>14462964
Why force the universe to adapt when you could adapt yourself?
Conjecture: every star we look at and go “huh dunno what’s causing these fluctuations” is inhabited.

>>14491563
Asimov books say Earth is special because we are more radioactive. Also makes us a little crazy.

>>14467554
Yeah, I like this one too, it has the right irony to it.
>no sign of intelligent life ANYWHERE
>brightest objects in the universe
>oh that, that’s just a big dumb quasar

One of the solutions to the FP, the signs are so common we think they’re “natural”.

>>14467480
Funnily enough, satan is indeed the light bringer. The light being our salvation.

>>14496167
It takes billions of years just to produce enough elemental diversity for star systems to have rocky planets that can have interesting carbon chemistry. The Solar System may even have been the first in our corner of the galaxy.

>>14499452
>The Solar System may even have been the first in our corner of the galaxy.
Maybe, maybe.

So if it did occur on any other planets in our corner of the Galaxy, I geuss it is likelier to find simple celled organisms, small life forms, than complex ones, but, there very well could be complex ones.

Imagine if aliens observed earth 500,000 years ago, or 1,000,000 years ago.

Yeah the time scales and variables involved it is likely that intelligent life comparable to ours is not in our immediate local corner, but then again with the crazy numbers game of the universe( you've seen the deep field images of a million galaxies, billions of stars in each, the highest purpose of the universe is intelligent life making on planets, sure that statement can be false, but it can be true.

I would guess somewhere around on at least one of 1,000 - 5,000 nearest possible life bearing planets, is intelligent life on its similar journey as human history

>>14499038
CIA don't need meds.

>>14499317
>Conjecture: every star we look at and go “huh dunno what’s causing these fluctuations” is inhabited.
what's stopping the tragedy of the commons from happening? does every alien civilization coordinate with each other to be "green"?

>>14499655
>is intelligent life on its similar journey as human history
You mean, they already have language and civilization and shit?

>>14499452
>it takes billions of years
no it doesn't, not according to conventional astrosoience. they say that the first wave of o class stars all blew up real quick, creating heavy elements galore during the first few million years.

this "we are alone" shit needs to cease. Life happened on earth, why not on any other one of trillions of planets? Ofcourse that doesn't mean we gonna meet anyone anytime soon or ever, but it's guaranteed there is someone now at this very moment shitposting on their local net in some corner of Andromeda

The real paradox is how the respected experts are less intelligent than half of 4chan.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LIFE BEGAN,
YOU HAVE A SAMPLE SIZE OF 1,
YOU HAVE NO FRAME OF REFERENCE,
UNTIL YOU DO, EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT “AlLIEN LIFE” IS PROJECTION WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS.

I hope we find a militaristic imperial civilization who hate AI to enslave us

>>14487506
No. It's actually AI going back in time to facilitate its creation.

>>14499697
"Astronomers estimate there are around 100 thousand million stars in the milky way."

I don't know by what means they counted them all.

It seems right and fitting that at least on one of the nearest 5,000 goldilocks planets, is a similar intelligent life trajectory as on earth.

The materials of the planet starting on the smallest scales, coalescing into elemental machines, evolving more largely and complexly over millions of years, coming to know more and more about the facts of the strange realm it finds itself in.

Imagine if on earth, there were small simple multi celled organism living on the leaf of a tree, that were concious and intelligent, the limits of it's understanding and communion with the cosmos. Compare those intelligence with humanities.

How much experience and ability is possible to intelligent concious humans, compared to thought experiment hypothetical intelligent concious small simple multi cell organism living on a leaf.

Then again maybe ants and smaller creatures have robust life experiences of love and labor and honor and highschool drama

>>14500001
Periodic table of elements and the laws of physics and chemistry, and the relations of stars and planets. Planets are petri dishes, or terrariums

>>14500296
Which laws of physics or chemistry explain the creation of life?

If Earth-like planetary conditions somehow force the elements to come alive, why is there only 1 genesis? We have literally the most earth-like conditions possible, so why aren’t our chemicals spontaneously coming to life?

Has anyone ever actually created life in a Petri dish or terrarium?

>>14500333
>We have literally the most earth-like conditions possible, so why aren’t our chemicals spontaneously coming to life?
Because it was a linear trajectory of phases. The sun earth atmosphere bisopshere surface elemental make up relation was different when life started to start starting.

>>14500379
Bro, I feel like I’m teasing a kid with Down’s syndrome here;
But out of respect for the time you spent trying to make sentences there,
I’ll rephrase my point:

Regardless of how non-unique the conditions on earth ever were,
You have no idea how unique the genesis of life is under any circumstances,

You have a sample size of one.

>>14500482
but 1 is not 0 retard, so 1 2 3 4 etc

>>14500482
>You have a sample size of one
And a solar system of 10 billion stars. Start counting to 10 billion and let me know when you realize how many that is

Also the periodic table of elements, there aren't 10 elements only in existence, there aren't 999999 elements in existence (as far as we know). There are 100 or so, so quite the limited pallate,

10 billion solar systems, with planets different range of distances from the stars, with different ratios of those 100 elements composing each planet.

On one of those 10 billion solar systems, we know a ratio of those 100 elements can produce all the diversity of life and everything humans can do. If you had to choose you would wager your life that something like what occurs on earth could or isn't occuring in another planet in the milky way?

>race evolves intelligence
>makes computers
>discovers VR
>makes mind upload possible
>should we stay physical and build "megastructures"
>or become immortal digital gods?
all the ayys are having a lan party that lasts forever

>>14501039
Yea it’s a dumb argument anon has there but you can’t beat it that way.
You say 10 billion, anon claims probability “of molecules arranging just so” is 20 billionths.
No way of saying what infinitesimal applies given a sample size of one.

Of course it’s a stupid argument, same one people used about the probability of planets existing anywhere but here 20 years back.
Obviously wrong but there’s no way to deconstruct it with logic; have to go and get the data to dab on his dumb ass.
Oxygen atmospheres should be enough, for life forms very similar to our own.

nothing can see past the speed of light and those stellar objects are several hundreds ,thousands and millions of light years away.

if theres intelligent life out there they probably woulnt see intelligent life on earth, not becuase humanity is nessicarily stupid, but becuase they are probably looking at earth when dinosaurs were walking around.

>>14501074
DNA is immortal, you are some rapidly decaying compost that the DNA wraps itself in temporarily. BY doing it this way, the systems core data, the DNA, is liberated from all of the rest of the hardware and superfluous software (eyeball and tongue drivers, etc.) and is able to create new hardware and software in order to refine the next generation model. The core data also reconfigures and improves itself slightly each generation. DNA is hundreds of millions of years old, you are maybe a few decades old, you will never be immortal, life in the universe will die out only when the last DNA is reduced to component elements, life started, as far as we know, when the first DNA came together.

>>14501075
>anon claims probability “of molecules arranging just so” is 20 billionths
Where does that 20 billionths figure come from?

Look at the environmental, climate, eco, elemental, molecular diversity on and beneath the surface of earth. The earths surface is a microcosm analogy of all planets in the milky way, it's a bad example, but...

The numbers and ratios and variety are so numerous, black jack and royal flush and Yahtzee have to be achieved more than once in the milky way.

10 billion solar systems. 100 elements ratioed in ranges of differences in each one.

Earth had a ratio, and developed all the life forms we know of,

Only 100 or so elements.

10 billion planets (roughly).those same elements making up those planets. Ratios different and similar to ours. Time span of billions of years.

>>14501074
The sort of technology you need to become an "immortal digital god" would make building megastructures or self replicating probes much easier. Said species would probably want a robust asteroid defense system set up in space anyways (nobody wants a meteor to crash their LAN party), and after that it only takes a small portion of the population who want to do stuff in the real world, to borrow some of that space infrastructure to start building interstellar probes or what not. Building stuff in space is going to be a fuck-ton easier if you have human level or above AI.

>>14461382
then explain this retard

bump

>>14501170
It is one in a google for all you know; could be exponentially less than that even.

The only variance in your single data point is unsubstantiated observer bias.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/black-hole-computers-2007-04/

>>14492953
Pretty sure Type IV, V, and VI don't exist and the scale only goes to Type III. A type III civilization would have sufficient understanding of all known laws of physics that they would be able to spawn and despawn pocket universes experimentally or for a specific purpose. In Halo, the Forerunner are essentially a Type III civilization, who eventually reach a sort of a Type III point 5 state, where they can spawn nascent pocket universes and drain them of their energy to power their civilization. That they have the power to travel to other galaxies within their local neighborhood, but ultimately choose not to expand beyond that scope as astronomical distance ultimately become a limiting factor and the energy/life potential of the primary galaxy + two neighboring satellite galaxies and Andromeda off in the distance is sufficient to guarantee civilization interaction variety for millions of years. They also figured out how to manipulate time where they can slow it down for stasis or speed it up in a locality under specific conditions, but obviously not reverse it (as that would violate countless laws of physics and is essentially impossible).
The other thing to keep in mind is that once you reach Type III status, you'd be able to build Matroshka brains around every stable star in the galaxy and move all the unstable stars into a section of the galaxy where you can slowly drain the "pressure" from them over hundreds of thousands of years to create more stable stars or create more material for your civilization in addition to gaining more energy. Which in turn gives you more options to create more Matroshka brains or better Matroshka brains.
Every Matroshka brain is essentially a virtual universe, where through raw compute, you can simulate more varied life and create new laws of physics and stack virtualities on top of each other so that in the event one simulation breaks there's a backup simulation to pick up the slack. Advancement beyond that seems eh?

>>14473084
>Read the article
>It is just a long-winded philosophical rant
>All the reviewers call him out of that and he tries to damage control
Lol.

>>14483834
>Implying both can't be true

>>14460488
I believe in God but this absurd. God created life to co-exist. We will eventually meet ayy lmaos.

>>14503699
wouldn't it be easier to power computation directly within the sun itself rather than build matroshka brains feeding off secondary heat?

>>14471270
Partially correct. Humans are a bioweapons project. It's meta-level bioweapons engineering. It's a bioweapon that can create a myriad of its own bioweapons.

>>14505888
explain

>>14475658

With the age of the universe there should already exist immortal civilizations or AI, we should find something observing the older galaxies, i think it's impossible to not be at least ONE civilization that is type 3 or above.

We are less than 10 years to create AGI, i believe it will happen before 2025, how is there not a civilization with millions of years that colonized various galaxies?

>>14507037
>how is there not a civilization with millions of years that colonized various galaxies?
Stop pop sci thinking of multiple galaxies, galaxies are so far away it is sickening, and often when they are not far away they may as well be considered one, a cluster of stars in proximity, which is what a galaxy is.

It is suggested there is around 10 billion stars in our Galaxy (I love you God you are epic), I think the nearest stars to us as like 6 light years away.

Light travels like 298,000 meter/s (effing metric system bastards)(pretty intersting it's almost exactly 300,000, wouldnt that be spooky)

I don't know the conversions to miles and can't look it up now so I can't say any further.

Any way, stop the pop sci speed of travel fantasies too. But ok ok, maybe there is a good point of the millions of years bit.


If immortal AI robots were developed a million years ago.... Let's say, or 500,000 years ago, on a planet in a range, of 20 to 200 light years away.

And the best spacecraft they could muster travels 1/50 (and another example, 1/100th, and another 1/500th... I don't know what's feasible or the conversion rates at this point)

If they left their planet 500,000 years ago, how far would they have traveled from their planet in that time?

>>14507037
Well that was half my point earlier, quasars could be type III civilisations converting stars into a more stable energy source.

We’re assuming all phenomena we observe is natural, and it’s only outlier “unnatural” events that could be signs of life - but if intelligence really is that common we’re probably already observing it.
Just, we’re trying to attribute “natural” causes to such phenomena.

>>14462886
We're looking for life as we know it in particular. It's our best bet at finding something we are capable of understanding. If there's a cloud of refuse from some other kind of galactic empire, perhaps made of silicone or sentient AI, then perhaps we'll take a more general approach to trying to find what that new phenomenon is.

>>14507073
Come on you nerds plug these numbers in, don't make me do it, I'll have to wait till tomorow

>>14507073
Voyager 1 has speed 17km/s. In 500000 years it will be 28 light years away. Whatever travels at 1/500c (600km/s) will be 1000 light years away.

>>14508330
""Within 10 parsecs (32.6 light-years), there are 97 exoplanets listed as confirmed by the NASA Exoplanet Archive.[note 1][4] Among the over 400 known stars within 10 parsecs,[note 2][6] around 60 have been confirmed to have planetary systems; 51 stars in this range are visible to the naked eye,[note 3][8] nine of which have planetary systems.""


>>14508330
>Voyager 1 has speed 17km/s. In 500000 years it will be 28 light years away.


Ok within 32 light years there are around 97 exoplanets, 32 being the upper bound I think I read 6 was nearest:

Voyager in 500,000 years! at it's speed gets to 28.

Then also to be factored is due to the gravity drag or star system revolution around galactic center, it may be quicker to travel in one direction over another.

We can imagine immortal AI robots produces spacecraft that can travel faster than voyager, but some general cap relatively not much much faster, I mean sun sails coupled with nuclear thrusters, the very real threat of space debris collisions at high speed

Then there is possible motives of immortal AI, what might they be intersred in and why, could they really care that much about biologies, are they just looking for resource rich planets they need, we care about cataloguing every cell and ameoba and termite on earth, would a robot care.

Would mechanisms of greater and greater pleasure and bliss be their greatest interest? Figuring out how to fit and fill their bodies to utilize the universes materials to provide them with the most sensational experiences?

Would they have a grand curiosity about the nature of reality and think we would provide them with any clues?

Would they see us interstingly as some distant universal relative?

Anyway anyway, the main thing we are considering, if they were made and able to space fly 500,000 years ago, and their spacecraft could go 1x voyager speed, 2x voyager speed, 3x voyager speed...
And they are from a planet 20, 30, 40, 50 light years away,

>>14508416
>speed...
>And they are from a planet 20, 30, 40, 50 light years away,
>>14508330
Yes you answered the case of 20 and pretty much 30 light years away...
If left 500,000 years ago from a planet 30 light years away at a little more than voyager speed, considering the planet was in optimal gravity drift direction of us, they would arrive at earth area.

Now that would depend on them viewing earth 500,000 years ago and choosing to head towards it over others, or thinking it worthwhile to go to for any reason, or we presume they would head towards all in the immediate vicinity.

Then there is greater likelihood, because the further we go from our vicinity the more planets in that area there are, this circumstance has greater odds of occuring on the area of planets past 30 light years perimeter, past 40 light year perimeter, past 50 light year perimeter.

Which means even more of a choice for their hopefully non concious probe AiS to go on a 500,000 year long road trip, and it means likely they would not be near earth yet.

>>14467821
>it'll take a while but not that long at all in cosmic terms
Interstellar colonization is likely impossible. Intergalactic colonization is absolutely impossible. So all God has to do is not allow more than 1 planet to develope life per galaxy and we'll never see each other.

>>14508425
Crunch these numbers more clearly.... The... The numbers........ But.... But what do they mean captain?

>>14460482
Nice Birkeland Current on the right.

>>14508434
>Interstellar colonization is likely impossible. Intergalactic colonization is absolutely impossible.
why?

>>14510215
Distance

>>14510320
why can't a robot fleet just wait a million years to get to its destination? a million years is nothing in the scheme of things.
you could also just cryogenically freeze the crew and have them wake up after they arrive, like in every standard scifi plotline

>>14510340
comic books aren't real

>>14510344
which one do you think is impossible, von neumann probes or cryo freezing?

>>14510359
Not him but kinda both. “Cryo freezing” moreso than the other.
Because they’re both journeys where the structural integrity of the contents is being blasted by a million years worth of cosmic rays.
Probably possible to make the trip, but your ship would likely be best as an entire solar system.

>>14510359
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions
> Grandiose delusions are characterized by fantastical beliefs that one is famous, omnipotent, wealthy, or otherwise very powerful. The delusions are generally fantastic and typically have a religious, science fictional, or supernatural theme.

your belief that comic book concepts are real is a grandiose delusion

>>14510381
you should take communication lessons from this guy >>14510373

>>14483791
>>14483787
>star like aberrations around light are an indication of refractive defects with the lens
>10bn telescope
>still hearing about hubble shit
>hubble image has no star abberations
kek

>>14460488
>God
opinion discarded, meds administered

>>14489712
This is the answer to the Fermi paradox. The reason why the one or two intelligent ayylmao species in the universe haven't colonized the whole thing is that they're distracted by complex games, porn, substances, foods, and ideas. You don't get to be a space-faring ayylmao without being curious, and you don't get to be curious without eventually falling into a trap. The aliens are real, they're out there, and they spend every space second of every space day either schizophrenically solving increasingly obscure math puzzles or fucking anime girls in VR or in real life - possibly solving genetic challenges to create catgirls, to fuck, of course. Gotta keep up with the Joneses.

>>14511209
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsrcYiTTNQU

>>14511231
Even if 99% of aliens fall into this trap, it only takes one technologically advanced alien to build a von Neumann probe. It's unrealistic that ALL aliens would neglect to make use of the vast amount of free resources available in space.

>>14467480
I wanna fuck aliens

I hope pokemon are aliens

>>14511846
>It's unrealistic that ALL aliens would neglect to make use of the vast amount of free resources available in space.
Yes but the further away from our location the more probability there are intelligent aliens (just like there are more people in an area the further I move from my current location than there are right next to me, because I am at a single point, surrounded by a larger and larger and larger spatial area) there And the logner it would take for them to get to us

>>14511846
I'm not confident that ayylmaos would *need* to colonize a large fraction of their own galaxy. There's plenty of space and materials where they are already. It's realistic to assume that ayylmaos would act in an efficient manner to maximize return per unit of effort. just because you could harvest enough energy to triple your harem doesn't mean you'd be able to tell the difference between 100,000 and 300,000 virtual persons. The aliens have probably miniaturized things, they likely desire to be energy efficient, thusly they are harder to detect due to lack of emissions

>>14512011
>The aliens have probably miniaturized things, they likely desire to be energy efficient

Desire for energy efficiency is just a temporary artefact of scarcity economics. The Universe is wasting yottajoules every second. Aliens probably do not care much about efficiency.

>>14490557
>when we're already observing dwindling birthrates when a certain quality of life is reached

It won't last. It is only a matter of time until some human culture/genetic variant appears that is pro-natalist even in post-modern consumer culture. Then it will replace the anti-natalists.

>>14512030
I disagree. They want to maximize reward per effort. You have no reason to colonize the entire galaxy because you can get plenty of energy from just a few dozens suns, or perhaps one planet especially rich in nuclear sources, or due to some unknown future technology we'll find one day. Humans have been saying fusion is "just 20 years away" for at least 50 years, so a 1 billion year old alien species is probably only 2 weeks away. You don't need much in the way of physical material if you miniturize and go digital. but I do admit that some alien schizos could want to colonize more, more, more, faster, and gain pointlessly large amounts of material and energy, but this doesn't directly imply that one can create von neumann probes. They don't have to be possible. You could imagine if they were possible that some - possibly large - portion of them would be unable to find the neccesary doubleunobtainium ore specially needed for their construction, or that large swathes of the galaxy or their visible universe may be extremely lacking in a neccessity (for life, nitrogen comes to mind immediately, and nitrogen is not exactly known as a rare element, nor is it first on the list of elements to be produced from early star formation, implying there will be even greater bottlenecks as we get to more complex elements)

>>14511990
>>14512011

We have sent probes into space to try to find life

what's stopping a sufficiently advanced alien race from sending out a self replicating probe whose purpose is to find life and yet we see none of these probes

we have sent radio waves out what stopping them from sending out theirs
and yet we hear nothing

there are no aliens

>>14512107
>some alien schizos could want to colonize more, more, more, faster, and gain pointlessly large amounts of material and energy

the elite on earth are no longer concerned with conquering earth, they're concerned with the meta-game, the next level, which on earth currently is exploration of space both inner and outer (e.g. Elon Musk with neuralink and spacex)

so once you've conquered a decent chunk of space, what's the next level in the meta-game? faster-than-light travel? reversing entropy? enlightening less developed civilizations?

>>14512236
interestingly enough, the concept of the metagame in its modern version was first detailed by John von Neumann himself

>>14512044
This. A lot of people have confused the trend of falling birthrates as having some long-term significance for evolution. It doesn't. Evolution will correct for it given time.

>>14512107
>unable to find the neccesary doubleunobtainium ore specially needed for their construction
self-replicating probes don't require any new exotic technology or energy sources.
>their visible universe may be extremely lacking in a neccessity (for life
biological beings won't need to be physically present.

>>14483834
It could be that God is not quite as all knowing as he's made out to be and he set evolution in place on several planets to see how life would develop there independent of each other, as well as to see what sort of ways intelligent life develop culturally, intellectually and everything else

>>14512030
And as another mentioned; minimizing leaves openings for being negitively effects by larger grouppings of elements and energies; partial motivation for cellular DNA life for growing from amoebas to Man, for all the flys and Ants saying; look at how futuristic and shiney and sleek and advanced we are; wait where did that cluster of matter grouping come from that just crushed myfriend.

If Aliens are satisfied with mini and digital realm and or not spreading out to the nearest hospitable 100 exo planets to even check them out or mine rare materials or colonize, maybe even this motivation to increase in size and breadth and power and control, is escsping being controlled; to control as much of the elements with as much ease as possible, to be in most control of self and surroundings as possible.

To prevent hazard. For even an immortal AI Alien doesn't want to get crushed by an asteroid, or volcano, or earthquake, or Jupiter storm, or avalanche, or atmosphere dissipation, etc. And if stars dying is a possibility, colonizing the nearest planets is best chance of your kind lasting.

>>14512231
Where are the current locations of our most distant radio waves sent from earth/Earth's orbit; how many light years

>>14512231
>we have sent probes
completely irrelevant
>what's stopping a
did you not read the post? idiot
>radio waves
irrelevant, already outdated to humanity, our signals will NEVER be detectable. Our output of these has decreased. We have become more efficient. We have no need for such waste.
>there are no aliens
proof?

>>14460482
>if Webb fails to find anything

You do not need ANY telescope to figure out they we are alone in this part of the Universe.
Go outside and look up, you see stars.
ANY advanced technological species would using all that free energy, Dyson swarms around every star.

We are alone as a TECHNOLOGICAL species.
No doubt that life is teaming out there and there probably ARE intelligent species, BUT none are technologically intelligent.
A species of intelligent whales would probably not be able to create and control fire and thus NEVER become a technological species.

>>14512236
you misunderstand neuralink and spacex (neither of which musk founded). they're both scams. no, i don't mean they're hail marys or far shots, i mean they literally have not accomplished anything of scientific note and are not designed to do so. they are designed to inflate his ego, and, possibly, to make money should the grants and private interest roll in continuously. neuralink is specifically pointless, morally disgusting, no neurologist has ever or will ever declare anything they've done to be progress or anywhere near a success.

>>14512582
>spacex

The Raptor rocket Engine is one of the finest rocket engines ever created.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7IpppGASg

>>14511846
>, it only takes one technologically advanced alien to build a von Neumann probe.
It would probably be something execution worthy, if you're building matter eaters, much less INTELLIGENT ONES, why would you let a single chucklefuck make one if it's possible for it to evolve and come back to destroy you?
It's like saying "well it only takes a few humans to make a nuclear bomb" well yeah that's why that shit is regulated and the necessary materials are watched like a hawk by everyone else.

>>14512604
>spacex_fans
yeah, no. you should consider checking out Common Sense Skeptic. They have multiple thorough debunks of your precious musk. He's a charlatan. He has no degree. He's not a doctor. He couldn't even pass the low bar of being an engineer, much less a scientist. He is, at best, a quack, and at worse a generic greedy businessman running a big scam on taxpayers and gullible investors. I'm sorry you had to find out this way, but now you must educate yourself.

>>14512696
>He has no degree.

I could not care less.
He has the vision and the drive, coupled with the financial means to make his dreams come true.
His dreams are altruistic for humanity, so I am OK with being a Musketeer

>>14512574
>ANY advanced technological species would using all that free energy, Dyson swarms around every star.
There are scenarios where that’s not true.
Should ZPE taps - Casimir effect pumps say - be viable, stars are just pretty lights, pointless as energy sources.

>>14512696
the only people cringier than his fanclub are "debunkers" like you

>>14512631
>well yeah that's why that shit is regulated and the necessary materials are watched like a hawk by everyone else
Yes, but despite this, we had close cases where a nuclear catastrophe was only narrowly avoided. The fact that nuclear tech was leaked to the Russians despite the best efforts of the CIA also demonstrates that "hawk-like vigilance" doesn't cut it; mistakes always happen and things slip through the net. Even if most alien civs are wise enough to resist deploying any risky technologies, it only takes one civilization to make the mistake of unleashing the "matter eaters" (as you call them).

>>14512736
>pointless as energy sources
not to the civs that aren't able to use ZPE taps. nature abhors a vacuum: every niche that can be, will be eventually filled.

>>14512574
>technological species would using all that free energy, Dyson swarms around every star.
How would Dyson swarms efficiently transfer the energy to a ship or earth?

Could earth one day make a space station or larger sized energy plant, with a very strong tube connected to an extended or extended solar panel fields nearer the sun?

>>14460482
idk pro 99% of all people are 99% taxed, where does the money/energy go?
Why are you so sure we are alone?

>>14512574
If earth could caputure more of the sun's energy by having some sun energy collector that exists in space closer to the Sun;

How would that capture/storage plant send the energy to earth to be used?

>>14460482
in all likelihood aliens are undetectable. Based on our current progress with stuff like VR, I could see every civilization building giant super computers and uploading their minds into a Utopian super matrix.
Faster then light travel seems to be just a dream and it's not really worth it to venture into the galaxy when you can do all that inside Universal Sandbox π™
Space is a dangerous place to organic and artificial life. Why waste resources?

>>14462886
we are gaia's genitals. show some respect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_panspermia

>>14513086
Generational bias.
Every generation tries to apply their fad to it, and it turns out the next generation didn’t go down that path but chose another.
VR is a fad, baseline reality is the most interesting and necessary place. Those that want to disappear up their own fundamental, why birth more of those? You don’t. You birth more people engaged in the real world, sure there may be a legacy load of fantasists but they would only progress at a low linear, actual workers at a high linear or even low exponent.
>>14514110
Interesting. Would imply standard candle supernova are intergalactic travel, there any sign of signal modulation? Doubt it on information density required… What of gamma ray bursters?

>>14512862
>If earth could caputure more of the sun's energy by having some sun energy collector that exists in space closer to the Sun;
>How would that capture/storage plant send the energy to earth to be used?
It could box them in cartridges, loading up large container space ships of batteries to make the back and forth trip to earth worth it.

Or, pipeline, pretty much the 2 long distance energy transfer methods used on earth.

The atmosphere lessens lots of the suns energy before it gets to earth, I mean this attempt to make solar panel fields in space nearer the sun and then transfer to earth is a bit silly, when there are plenty of useless earth deserts (useless besides being struck with all the earths needed consumptive energy in a year in a day) that can be filled with solar panels and get enough efficient energy with ease of transfering (easier than transfering from space).

I have traveled in the south west before, western Texas, new Mexico, Arizona, etc. 100s and 100s of miles of hot hot empty empty hot hot hot nothing nothing nothingness.

Fill it all with solar panels why dontcha

>>14514490
Those places have the added benefit of not being subject to hailstorms.
Might be a bit gun shy, 3 massive storms in the last 15 years here, but those thing really fuck up any glass, glass based, or sheet metal structures.

Give me needing to sweep off dust and sand weekly over my infrastructure getting entirely trashed any time thanks.

>>14462886
reddit tier post

new thread
>>14514740

>>14512854
Lasers.

>>14516190
Doesn't seem efficient or practical

>>14514297
I agree that VR is a fad. But I suspect we may at some point (assuming we survive the next few hundred years as a technology based society) that we'll be able to plug human brains into quantum computer based simulators. The things that could be created is only limited by our imagination. Here in the real world we are stuck & bound to the laws of physics which don't care about how small we are. So I ask again, why waste resources exploring a dangerous place which we can't hope to cross even in a thousand human lifetimes?

>>14462371
Nah, universe is big as fuck and we cant see shit, no matter how big telescope you put out there it wont see shit, you can put your techno and bio signatures up your ass because its probably way more complicated and we have one example of life evolving on one planet. Seti? Please, we don't know what signals we are looking for.

>>14511846
>>14512231
Whichever alien civ came first likely had so much time ahead of latecomers that they would be able to entirely dictate their actions.
If the first civ had specific rules regarding spamming self replicating probes to colonise and contact uncivilised life (us) then it would never happen because the lawmaker civ would effectively be gods.
Also its important to note we can only say there arent VISIBLE self replicating von neumon probes everywhere, not that they dont exist at all.

>>14480662
So it sounds like the great filter is just life itself forming similar to us.

>>14518955
>Please, we don't know what signals we are looking for.
Uhh.. obviously we detect a range of standard signals from stars out there and everything, and there's a great chance if intelligent life signals reached us they would appear blatantly different so obviously we are looking for stand out blatantly different signals than we detect regularly

>>14519385
When we send signals away from earth or away from a satellite in orbit, how far have those earliest ones traveled?

And if we were on the other end of them would we detect them as intligent?

And the further one gets from the signal source, the harder it is to detect the signal, because the spatial sphere of area that the signal now occupies is such a large area, the signal itself so small compared to that large are, that the odds would be the alien, or we, are not in the presise place in space the signal will cross?

Stars get their signal eveywhre, with the continous every Planck length of their internal and surface body sending signals in every every direction.

Is all the human radio waves from earth going out into space, and maintaining any amount of their intelligable intelligent signature?

when the fuck is webb gonna be fully operational? a few weeks from now?

>>14518505
>Here in the real world we are stuck & bound to the laws of physics which don't care about how small we are.
In a fantasy world you are too, because it doesn’t matter how intricate your program is if the power plug gets pulled you realise you were just as small and as bound to the laws of physics as you ever were.

Ever read ‘70s SF? Ayylmaos get to a certain level of development, say fuck it enough, and then turn around and blast drugs all day.

I mean why build a sophisticated computer to tickle your pleasure centres when blasting heroin does the same job and cheaper too (excluding black marketeer costs ofc).
It’s the same damn thing.

> So I ask again, why waste resources exploring a dangerous place which we can't hope to cross even in a thousand human lifetimes?

You only play games on easy mode? It’s the challenge that makes it fun.
However I’ll grant there’s no point to “exploring”, build instrumentation good enough here and you can see everything you might want to, discover etc etc.
If there’s a point to travel, it’s redundancy and embassy/contact missions.
Some small level of colonisation goes with the former but I think there’s something of a prisoners dilemma going on - nobody wants someone else to run over them with a hegemonising swarm, so they too restrain themselves… lest they get a rain of planet busters from irritated neighbours.

Idk, reality is real. If there’s anything worth doing, it’s in the real.

>>14480274
>dude....

>>14511209

>>14490571
>there's no such thing as god

>>14520174
>study finds