/sci/ - Science & Math

If God real, then why do bad things happen?

Is a self defining concept. Is not posible to comprehend our existance withoit it existing, so the fact that we are able to ask this question means existance exists

>>14473603
But don't you just sometimes wonder what if things just didn't exist at all?

>>14473595
Because morality is a social instrument made to regulate human societies, and doesnt hold any signuficance outside of its limited context.

>>14473605
All the time. Depends of what do you define as existance

>>14473608
Then why God do create people to suffer? He didn't need to.

>>14473593
because

>>14474248
God wouldn't care about you as an individual. He would care about the life he's created. What good is life without suffering? Life requires suffering.

>>14473593
because existence is necessary to exist before you can speak of existence to exist in the first place

>>14474270
Then why he make people who don't suffer?

To annoy you

but why he do that?

>>14474290
Disclaimer, I'm not religious but I am not ruling out that there might be some kind of higher power.

Again, God wouldn't care about you as an individual. There are people who suffer more than others, that is for sure. And I don't think that's something that any God set out to do. If there is a God, I like to think he planted some sort of seed for life to emerge. Suffering being one of the traits that come with life. How uninteresting would it be for God to control every minute detail of life? There needs to be some randomness to life for it to be interesting, however unfair it may seem. Just try to imagine a world without suffering. It's paradoxical because such a world would be insufferable.

>>14473593
to distinguish tangible elements from intangible

>>14474258
Best answer

>>14473593
OP, you punk, even if there was nothing, you still wouldn't be happy.

>>14473595
God doesn't care and just likes to see how you react

>>14473605
Then I wouldn't be wondering

>>14473593
The qaballah already explains all of this.

>>14473593
Because math exists.

>>14473593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdDNfTREQJU

>>14473593
anthropics my dude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtGSkhEKh6o
Physics can answer the *is* question
Philosophy may answer the *ought* question

>the anthropic principle
Just soiwit things.

>>14474425
>It's paradoxical because such a world would be insufferable.
This place is already insufferable. And Ițm not talking about 4chan

>>14476081
>hey guys, the anthropic principle is real
>also 95% of the universe is made of dark matter
>but theres no dark matter in our solar system
>pure coincidence

>>14473593
That picture reeks of zoomers, ew, gay.

Metaphysics has been solved by CTMU. Philosophags are just too low IQ to understand it.

>>14474248
God didn't create people

>>14474270
>Life requires suffering.
Why?

>>14476859
If you never knew what is bad, you would not know what is good

>>14473593
Demonstrate why existence must have a reason or cause to exist.

>>14476893
Opposition error: the opposite of good is not-good, not bad. You might as well say the opposite of salt is pepper, so salt can't exist without pepper.

And note, though this is just a curiosity, even that which is left over seems mistaken since it seems to confuse the ability to distinguish not-x with the perception of not-x.

>>14476792
The guy that naively uses the PSR, considering it proved as absolute truth?

>>14475880
Confusion of relation of ideas with matters of fact. Math is part of the former. Existence existing is part of the latter.

>>14473593
You’re going to get a shit thread like this when you ask a question that doesn’t have an answer and likely never will be answered. At some point we will just have to accept existence as a brute fact

>>14473603
Indeed, but the OP is asking a slightly different question than "give a proof that existence exists". He is really saying "why must existence exist instead of nothing?"

>>14474287
What you said is true, but this again makes the mistake of confusing a proof with a sufficient reason.

>>14474642
This is an interesting answer because it interprets what OP is saying as asking for the purpose of existence, but it is a confusion since OP asks for a sufficient reason.

>>14475877
Please recall the answer, then. If you can't, it would ne reasonable to assume there is no answer there.

>>14476072
This is a proof of that existence exists, and not a sufficient reason why it must exist, and not nothing.

>>14477112
The question cannot be answered, since it really asks to show that "existence exists" is not a matter of fact, but a relation of ideas.

>>14473593
Who says existence exists? Many people believe it doesn't

>>14477136
Just because many people believe x does not mean that x is true. Also, numerous proofs of the statement have already been posted in this very thread.

Because nonexistence doesn’t exist (by definition)

>>14473593
Why does salmon pizza persist?

>>14477099
There is no opposition error, the idea of good/bad is a human construct in the first place, on an universal scale there is no good or bad, but clearly it feels bad to get stabbed and it feels good to get not stabbed, but if you wouldn't know that being stabbed feels bad you wouldn't know that not being stabbed feels better

>>14477153
Equivocating two senses of the word non-existence. You might as well say "not is not implies not is not not implies not is not not not etc." (Here I am equivocating two senses of the word not, and applying one on the other, but it looks like it is true by the mere relation of ideas).

>>14477188
>the idea of good/bad is a human construct in the first place
First of all, it isn't just a human construct, that is, a fiction, since at least individual values exist (i.e. you can hate this post). Granting it is just a human construct, this doesn't disprove my argument against it being an opposition error.
>but if you wouldn't know that being stabbed feels bad you wouldn't know that not being stabbed feels better
This is confusing knowing something is better or worse with it being better or worse.

>>14473593
Don't know yet.
Ask again in 500 years.

>>14473593
Because in the background information of logic itself the number that defines our universe.
*refuses to elaborate further*

>>14473593
This is the greatest non-mystery.
What would be the opposite of existence? Something that is fictional. Non-existence is not something that, well, exists. By definition.
The actual mystery is, why in a fashion that allows consciousness. And my guess is because existence allows for an insane plurality of things beside just our current universe, so there was bound to be our universe.

>>14473593
Purely for the sake of suffering, so suffering can exist.

>>14473593
The only thing that can be said about this question is that existence implies some sort of meaningfully-existent ontological mechanism. That idea itself is sort of a paradox anyway. The nature of that mechanism might be god, it might be some appeal to nothingness, it might be something intrinsic to our reality's laws that self-assert its exist, it might be something completely incomprehensible to time-bound consciousnesses.

We don't know, and because all known methods of human inquiry break down at these sorts of questions, it is likely we will never know. One of the central struggles in the human condition is finding a way to personally reckon with the great unknowns about life and our reality, and the futility to understand absolutely in our own lives, or perhaps in all human lives. Part of that reckoning might be the bravery to continue questioning, even if it is in vain.

Good luck Anon, because deep down we are all existentially terrified.

>>14474248
Maybe everyone is an npc in this universe he created for you and every single human you see suffering has no soul and his just talking meat bags put there for you. Then there wouldnt be a God/evil paradox

>>14473595
I like to see it that God was pre universe and we are here to teach god/ the universe what good/bad is possibly.
We are god and the universe experiencing it's own nonexistance. Look up Pandeisim (not to be confused with Pantheism), fascinating stuff anon. It's what turned me from agnostic atheist to agnostic theist.

>>14473593
Well can you think of nothing?
No, why? Because nothing is still something. Non existence would still exist

>>14473595
If god not real, then why do good things happen?

>No, why? Because nothing is still something. Non existence would still exist
Just delete this board. 95% of the posters here are clinical retards.

>>14481929
Cause life has good and bad thinds. Godtards pretend there are only good things and ignore the bad stuff

>>14481962
If atheism is true, good and bad don't exist. Why do atheistards pretend they do? If atgeism is true, there are no morals and you should objectively either kys if you're a pessimist or live a life of conplete egoism if you're not

>>14473593
so we can fantasize about tentacle rape.

>>14473593
It is equally strange for nothing to exist as well as it's strange for something to exist.

Given the mere existence of this paradox, it's ultimately less strange for something to exist than for nothing to exist. In a world that seems to follow certain rules, tendencies and largely conforms to chance-based outcomes, it makes sense that existence exists in that framework.

>>14481956
I can’t believe people are unironically using that as an answer

>>14481956
>>14482741
I can't believe people unironically do not grasp this concept.

Please describe the state of "whateverness" there would be/wouldn't be without existence. The hypothesis that nothingness could possibly exist is equally unfalsifiable as the hypothesis that nothingness couldn't exist.

>>14482741
Label-thinking drones are not real people.

>>14473595
Bad things in small doses are good for your growth.

Imagine a plant.

It needs light to grow, but too much light creates a desert.

It needs water to grow, but too much water creates an ocean.

It needs air, but too much air creates strong winds that uproots the plant.

The plant wants daylight and rain all the time. The plant sees no water and night time as bad. They aren't.

Scripture says it this way, all things work for the good for those who love God and are called according to his purposes.

So, although we see things as bad, God tells us to trust Him because it's good for us we just can't see it.

>>14482617
>it is equally strange for nothing to exist as well as it's strange for something to exist.
that statement is completely arbitrary.

>>14482981
It's objectively false.

If nothing existed it wouldn't be strange because it wouldn't be anything, and there would be no one there to say otherwise because there wouldn't be anyone at all. Just nothing.

Strange requires something to compare it to.

>>14481956
>>14482845
>>14482741
>>14482851
It's philosophy not science, I guess I was dumb for thinking a single person on this board would have taken a philosophy class at least once, after all it is a science board. Metaphysics.

>>14473593
>tfw you are bound to existance so you can't explain why existance exist
>to get an outside view of existance means you should stop existing thus you wouldn't be able to explain existance and non-existance

>>14473595
Crazy person here. God is very real and he does meddle with stuff on earth.
He is always a million moves ahead of you and he can calculate and even manipulate every action that you take. He probably doesn’t use total control for some reason but he does adjust certain things.
Watch the show Devs, it will give you a better understanding of His power.
“Coincidence my ass” I use this expression a lot. Unless you are aware of what’s going on while you’re navigating the world you won’t be able to see it. Sorry for the crazy rambling, but hey, maybe even this post is His doing.

>>14484217
It's not "philosophy". It's the psychotic rambling of a certified NPC.

>>14485301
Some friends of me recommended me this show. I had to pretend it wasn't a massive pile of shit because I didn't want to insult their intelligence, so I'm taking it out on you instead

>>14485317
>he thinks that it was actually his idea not to watch the show

>>14485305
Says the npc
https://philosophynow.org/issues/125/Why_Is_There_Something_Rather_Than_Nothing

>>14485497
>my iq is 80

>>14473593
Because the base level of reality is nothingness, so if there is nothingness something is bound to exist.

>if there is nothingness something is bound to exist.

>>14473593
I think the question itself presupposes that something simply must exist. To ask "why is it so?" is to wonder how it follows from some fundamental state of affairs, or what constraints of reality necessitate it. In other words, to ask the question is to assume that there is a reason, which presupposes a context where reasons make sense, that is, a context where something IS a particular way.

>>14473593
Who says that it does?

>>14485301
God keeps me away from certain females, He says they are not worthy and that in due time I will stumble across the perfect match. I must reiterate that I am not crazy.

>>14473593
it doesn't

>>14473593
literally because

>>14473593
Why does an apple apple?

>>14477188
Even if it was necessary to suffer to some degree in order to know the difference between good and evil, that doesn't explain why certain babies need to get raped to death or be born with hideous and incurable birth defects. God could have easily arranged some system that was fair and made sense, but he didn't.

>>14489810
What made you believe that God can’t be evil, religion?
Might I remind you that a lot of religions believe in a heaven and they always describe it as a better place for some reason, they don’t want to extend their current suffering.

>>14473593
Existence isn´t a property, nigger

>>14477108
> Math is part of the former.
Not necessarily true. Math may not be just an idea but what forms reality.

>>14489810
>but why didn't le heckin' god create a worlderino that is perfectly aligned with my likes and dislikes
lol

>>14473593
why not?

>>14477122
Its very long. Just look it up

>>14473593
because non-existence is contradictory
i will not take any questions and i will not elaborate

why is sci polluted with bible belt inbreds?

>>14473593
>Why does existence exist?

PERCEPTION

>>14473593
>>14473595
>>14473605

Stupid questions that throw mind in a loop. Based on wrong assumptions, that there can be anything other that we experience or that magic invisible guy in heavens is possible.

>>14473593
define why

>>14473603
We already know it exists retard that wasn't the question.

>>14473593
There is no need to ask that, its only unnecesary confusion, it has been that way before you were born, long before first human was born, before Earth was created, its normal, that is the state of things.

>>14474248
Because suffering is good

>>14492674
>We already know it exists
Prove it, schizo.

>>14473595
He just doesn't like people like you that's all.

>>14475982
I really like the the 6. and 8. cuz they are basically the same but I don't really get the cons.(What is Sophism?). Anyways Its just funny cuz you can trump any question with "there were no rules" so something can just pop into existence. Can someone please explain further ?

>>14495125
Oops sorry 1.6. and 2.8.

>>14477122
The ontology of nothing naturally lends itself to the concept of One monistic entity which is aware of itself. This self awareness creates both an observer and observed, thus forming two dualistic concepts within the One. The existence of both the dualistic divide and the monistic whole creates the supernal triad.

The 2n+1 nature of the formation of this triad then creates another triad reflected from it, and a further copy of that triad, making 9 Sephiroth which work together to create the reality we perceive as "real" (the 10th Sephiroth, Malkuth).

>>14473593
For God to test us

Read Industrial Society and its Future, then Anti-Tech Revolution Why and How to learn about the technology problem

>>14495492
>when I am Chesed to meet you

>>14473593
Assume nothing exists. This means also no rules.
Without rules 1 and 0 are equal. So at the lowest level existing and not existing is the same.

>>14485642
>I am 16 and I fucking love science

>>14474425
You can have a world that is interesting and has chance without requiring suffering. To say suffering is required for x is placing limitations on God.

>>14473593
I don't know man but I want off this ride
Can you believe we have not experienced perception for 13 billion years until now? particles that have made/are making me what I am right now have been through all kinds of cosmic events without me knowing
This shit is horrible if you think about it

>>14495678
>posts reddit-tier "phillosophy" takes by literal whos
>it doesn't even support his retarded opinions
>i'm 13 and i heckin' love philosophy!!!

>>14496019
>no u

>>14496065
>t. picrel
So now that we've established literal nobodies on the internet are not an authority (and don't even support your statements), do you want to substantiate your sub-90-IQ "philosophy" opinion by some other means? lol

>>14496077
I don't even know what opinion specifically you're referring to. >>14495678 This was my first contribution to the thread. Someone linked you a philosophy website outlining the "something rather than nothing" question as its covered in philosophy, which includes to what extent there can be such a thing as nothingness and what that even entails. You seemed to imply that even entertaining any such questions is "psychotic npc ramblings", and then you respond to that poster with ">my iq is 80". Any sensible response in return is to call you a fucking retard, which is what I did in my own way.

>>14496119
>You seemed to imply that even entertaining any such questions is "psychotic npc ramblings"
No. You're just a literal nonhuman NPC doing his little preprogrammed culture war kneejerk reaction while having no idea about the context of the posts he responds to.

>>14496123
I think someone is projecting.

>>14496126
I think you're sharting out yet another preprogrammed NPC phrase. If you're not a literal NPC, why do you have completely irrational and incongruent kneejerk reactions?

>>14496128
I don't.

>>14496129
You did, though. Calling out a retard for being stupid in no way implies "that even entertaining any such questions is "psychotic npc ramblings"". Just take the L and walk away. We both know what you did and why you did it, little vermin.

>>14489810
>muh god
God isn't obliged to do anything, everything good and evil is human doing, violence only perpetuates violence and you can't shift the blame to a creature who most likely doesn't even exist