/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1446090

babies are born atheist, no need to impose.

hey sci

as an troll I feel I am above all you quarrelling non trolls, I feel it holds back progress, especially in areas such as trolling and anti counter-troll warfare. However I still feel the need to troll others because I think in the ends trolls will win.

>>1446090
>as an atheistic

what?

Nice pic.

Is one of the main arms warped off the main disc or is it an illusion caused by unrelated objects in front or behind it?

If it is, think about what a wondrous view on the main galaxy it would be if one's homeplanet was in that warped arm.

>>1446123
i never thought about that.
it possibly is, that bright ellipse above could be the warped image of the galactic center..

you wouldn't see that effect from the spiral arm though.

>>1446090
Religion no more holds back progress, than an umbrella holds back a hurricane.

Religion is, in and of itself, not evil. I have a form of religion, I follow the tennants of Christ, but I also hold there is some truth and spiritual meaning in every religion, and thus, have respect for religion, in general.

Fanaticism, and Ignorance, hold back progress. Islamic Fanatics, Jihadists, Jewish Fanatics (Yes, they exist), Hindu Elder Councils, Christian Fundies, they hold back social, scientific, and philosophical progress for the human race. I would hate to see religion removed, but I would love to see it take a place not as: "OBEY OR ELSE" but more of a moral guidance of: "This is good behavior, this is bad behavior."

For me, the teachings of Christ become: "Question Everything, Seek Answers, Fight Ignorance", but that's a personal philosophy. I would fight tooth and nail to protect religion, mine or antohers. But I will not fight for Fanticism. I am morally against blind faith.

Because true faith requires one to look for evidence to support it, and if one fails to find the evidence, then change the faith until it fits facts.

Those astute may realize that my faith is very similar to current scientific theory.

>>1446136
>>1446123

Looks like gravitational lensing to some degree by the galactic centre.

>>as an atheistic i feel like religion and all of its ridiculous quarrels do not concern me, so i guess you could say i feel above religion. i feel it holds back progress, especially in areas such as politics and science. however i still do not feel the need to impose my beliefs on a religious person because i think that in the end logic will win.

You thought wrong

>>1446147

>Well thought out and articulated response on 4chan.

ineverthoughtiwouldseetheday.png

>>1446180
I live to serve.

>>1446147
Glad that you, as a theist, did not include atheists in the list of fundie radicals. I'm used to theists using their (and other's) fundies as an excuse to insult atheists.

>>1446147
Then you don't follow the tenants of Christ, certainly not the first commandment.
Also, you're a fucking idiot and deserve to be hit with a dictionary.

Faith
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

>>1446123
I've seen that pic before, The smaller galaxy is in a gravitational struggle with one of the larger galaxies' arms. The smaller galaxy will eventually be swallowed by the larger one.

>>1446179
Implying it wasn't just the fault of fucking idiots, and their religion told them to do it. Religious leaders/religion. As much of a tragedy as that was (I'm actually angry about it right now) it had nothing to do with dogma.

>>1446199
We will have to disagree on this point.

Some believe faith is blind. I find blind faith to be foolish. I do not like being a fool, so I look for evidence for my faith and find it.

Please, there is no excuse for disrespect, or insults in a polite discussion.

>>1446197
I've met my share of Aetheist Radicals, and aethiests who just live a life as they want to. There's a difference between the two, and I respect one, and enjoy a good debate with them. The other I quietly shuffle into the Fundie category.

But then again, everything has a radical.

>>1446199
Because someone mentioned commandments (the first in particular) I feel obliged to point out that most people don't know the Ten Commandments.
If you think you do, please list them.

>>1446217
I meant religious leaders =/= religion.

>>1446232
Thou shall not Lie.
>Obvious reasons. Liars are douchebags.

Thou shall not commit Adultry.
>I can debate on this. Adultry, as in, cheating, or Adultry, as in: "Consentual between adults?"

Thou shall not Covet.
>Jealousy is a bitch. Don't let it consume you.

Thou shall honor thy mother and father.
>Does not imply birth parents. Does imply those who raise and taught you.
>Even if you disagree.

Thou shall not steal.
>Seriously. I like this rule.

Thou shall not commit murder.
>Do not murder. Different than kill. Big difference. Not for this argument.

Thou shall honor the sabbath.
>Take a day off every once in a while.

Thou shall have no other gods but God.
>I follow this, but my understanding of God has widened considerably in the last few years.

...Okay, that's 8 of 'em.
Lemme look up...

No Graven Images
>Uhm, sure. This is a funny debate, but I assume that it's more: "No statues of gods to worship" more than "NO STATUES"

Thou shall not take thy Lord's name in vain.
>Don't call on God to solve your problems. If you actually work for a solution and ask, sure. If you lay back and don't do shit, fuck you, buddy.

>>1446255
It would be adultery as in cheating, yes.

>>1446255
Now turn to Exodus 34 for the correct answer.

1) You must desecrate the buildings, icons, and structures of all other religions.
2) God has a name, and the name is Jealous, and the name also describes His personality. There are other gods in this polytheistic religion. Worship none of them, only Jealous.
3) Men can make new gods. Be sure you don't.
4) Observe the weak of passover feast in the proper month, Abib.
5) The firstborn male of anything you own is to be slaughtered in the name of God, including your own sons. If you don't want to slaughter your son, a lamb will work too.
6) You can only work six days straight. The seventh day you have to rest. Presumably this means the Sabbath, but it doesn't actually say that.
7) At the feast of weeks, you offer up your firstborn grain, crops, and produce to Jealous.
8) Do not mix blood with yeast. Do not leave any of the passover feast.
9) The first of anything you make is to be given to Jealous.
10) Don't cook a baby goat in its mother's milk.

>>1446147
maybe my statement that it holds back progress is a bit classical..

fundamentally i would say all religions are (mostly) good, not that i have a problem with religion. after all it was men who created the evil that has tainted religion, so i would you agree that it is men who have given it such a bad name?
as Orwell said
>>power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

so would you say that you preach Christianity?
if your morals have extended so far from the 10 commandments then they are not entirely Christian anymore. i also live by similar morals and arrived at them through an entirely individual way. although i went to a Christian school i developed mine through life experience.

>>1446179
that was a long time ago
mankind has come very far since that. most of the world is, relatively, stable and this kind of atrocity is not so common anymore

>>1446271
Holy fucking shit.

>>1446273
I've found that the best way to preach, is simply to live the tennants of your faith, instead of standing and shouting them. I would refer to a section of the bible that I sometimes look through (rarely).

To paraphrase:

"If a city should refuse to hear the word of God, simply dust off your shoes and continue on."

Or, as I understand it:
"If no one wants to hear about it, don't talk about it."

Pretty simple stuff.

Do I, myself, view myself as Christian?
No.
Do I view myself as a follower of Christ?
Yes.

They are not mutually exclusive. In many ways, I've come to understand my religious beliefs as more moral gudielines to live and strive for, not a dogmatic guide to not venture from. Even more, if one does not learn, one does not have any faith or understanding, and merely pays lip service. This is not faith - in fact, it's quite the opposite.

Glad that we can have a friendly debate.

Do you have AIM/YIM? Further talking in real time would be loved.

>>1446271
I apologize, I do not follow that testament.

>>1446271
Most of this is taken completely out of context.

>>1446298
You should.
Jesus said not a jot or tittle of the old law would pass away until his return. Old Testament law is still in effect.

>>1446303
No, that is the context. You have your Bible. You can read where those are what is carved in stone.

>>1446295
Tenants are people who live in your house.
Tenets are principles you follow.

>>1446303
lol "out of context"

>>1446271
>>1446271
It never says anything about offering up your son...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34&version=NIV

>>1446304
Aye. And he did return. For three days dead, one day arose. Thus, by his own words, in his return, the old laws were struck away.

We can agree to disagree on this.

>>1446090
There is no need to impose anything but that bieng said religion is an idea and hence not above criticism and mockery. And i sure the hell rub it in thier faces every chance i get.
Also all babies are atheist so its religion that is imposed on young kids.

>>1446295
its interesting that the bible actually says that.
so by saying you don't follow that do you mean you would impose your beliefs on other people?

and by beliefs i mean your Christian faith.
by imposing the morals you stated before on somebody you would be doing them a favor. i would also stress that somebody would follow those morals.

which brings me to another point. if you seek answers then what is your definition of 'god'?
what is he to you?
a physical being who created everything or something spiritual?

because following that reasoning leads to the big bang theory.

>>1446320
19 The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck.
> Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

>>1446331
I find the worse thing anyone can do, is force faith on a child. I was lucky that my mother, while nominally christian, basicly told me: "You are your own person. I will teach if you would like, but if you don't want to listen, I'll love you anyway."

1,267,650,060,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

>>1446309
No it is not in context. He never said desecrate every religions altars for all eternity, he was talking to moses it was like a one-time deal... haha wow. half of those things aren't even bad and you no longer have to sacrifice because of Jesus's sacrifice, also never says anything about firstborn sons.

>>1446343
I'm assuming you're implying there's a fifty-fifty chance of a god existing. We've gone over this. Two possibilities != 50/50. Your odds of pulling a blue marble out of a bag with five hundred red marbles and three blue ones is not 50/50.

>>1446363
> never says anything about firstborn sons
> Exodus 34:20 -- Redeem all your firstborn sons.
You just lost the game. GTFO. You can't even be literally correct, so you don't get to talk about context.

>>1446363
But it does.

>>1446338
>implying thats what it says in the original hebrew

Also
>Thou shalt not murder
That would completely contradict the ten commandments

>>1446386

>> Implying the bibles translators translated everything word for word and didnt use any "next best" translations.

>>1446386
Murder != Killing

This wouldn't be murder, this would be sacrifice.

>>1446386
You read Hebrew now?
Up until a few moments ago, you thought "Thou shalt not lie" was one of the ten commandments.
GTFO.

>>1446376
Yeah accept, no one ever offered up their son so obviously no one ever interpreted it like that, except you, to fit your own argument.

>>1446412
>Abraham and Isaac

>>1446333
Imposing my faith on another person would be against my morals, as such, I could not do so in a manner that you describe. It would be morally wrong for me to do - but to offer advice and comfort and, if needed be done, religious help, I can do. It's all about consent.

Second:

God.

That's a tough one. If my wording seems wrong, attribute it to someone with a limited understanding.

God is perfect love. God is the point between wisdom and intelligence, where one should strive for. God is the ultimate creator, a singularity of purpose and will - the creator, whom set in motion the events which created everything, before sitting back to watch, and offer guidance. God is imperfectly understood and, as people grow, the understanding grows with it, to become something more and changing. God cannot be understood completely, but neither can the universe - thus we must seek to understand it as best we can. God is Pi, Prime, Infinite, and Zero. God Is the First Event. God is the eventual colapse/recontinuiation of the universe when it should happen again. God is the measure and ruler, and the taker of these measurements.

In truth, I don't understand what God is. I just know it's something I've always enjoyed, and follow.

>>1446412
oh shit I mean except*

>>1446419
Simple typos are forgiven.

>>1446417
>implying god wasn`t just trolling.

It was a test of faith dumbass.

> taking the bible out of context
Can you write one that's in context? Andrew Schlafly thinks he can.

>>1446397
Yeah that was somebody else, but great strawman.

>>1446432
You're an idiot. Sure, he didn't let them go through with it, but they were still going to.

>>1446440
My apologies, then. I don't check for samefag in a paranoid fashion.

>>1446434
Who?

>>1446446
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project

>>1446441
>but they were still going to.

That is a terrible argument, compounded by your use of ad hominem attacks which clearly shows you're grasping for straws.

>>1446432
If it was a test of faith, why wasn't God upset that Abraham failed at basic morality by obeying?
If God shows up and asks you to kill your son, and you have to consider it for more than a moment before you flip God the bird? You fail the test.

>>1446460
Why is it a terrible argument? It's probably the most terrifying thing about Christianity and it's right in the Bible. God says to Abraham "Kill me a son" and he is ready to do it. He was ready to kill a humanbeing because god told him to.

I can't link posts anymore for some reason (on my mobile) so I'll respond to the latest points. First of all God stopped Abraham, second of all even if he had done it he would be in Heaven, Third of all I am an atheist and yeah I know it's bullshit but your arguments against Christianity are mindboggling stupid.

>>1446414
so you must get sick of atheists posting all over the internet. the funny thing is that i know a guy who is exactly like that 'angry atheist' guy in all the cartoons.
have you watched that movie carl sagan made?
you might liek.

anyway. so whenever you feel happy, or find something that does not make sense or is in essence inexplicable you attribute it to god?

hypothetically lets say that the big bang is explained and proven scientifically. then something that you once attributed to god has been taken away from him. so what next?

god would no longer be the great creator, this would be the final nail in the creation coffin. so how would you define him them?
beauty, chance and complexity?

if everything that is used to define him is taken away one by one then logically he will eventually have nothing left, that is there will be no way to explain him.

perfect love is chance
finding the point between wisdom & intelligence is skill
the creator is an incomprehensibly small point
pi prime and zero are things yet to be fully explained.

these things can be explained or achieved my man. and i believe will eventually be explained, but that is testimony to our intellect.

that being said intellect implies peace which implies patience for ones fellow man. could religion will undo religion?

>>1446568
by that slightly retarded bit at the end i mean if peace came about world wide and everyone worked together we could achieve great things. perhaps even fully explain the entire history of the universe. thus debunking creation (of the universe).
which could spell the end of religion on a wide scale, provided ignorance is forgotten.
so could the only way forward be atheism?