/sci/ - Science & Math

Bumping for discussion

i'm hoping #1, but that last one sounds like the truth. damn physics for the light speed barrier

Well, space is really, really big. It's entirely possible that if there are other civilizations that they would never detect any of our signals nor will we detect theirs.

what if UFO aliens are just us from the future

>tripfag makes an actual science discussion thread on /sci/
i'm speechless

>>1421337
Most likely the first and last points are correct.

I seriously hope not #3 because we make a lot of noise.

Fucking radio station companies are ignorant and just want to make money

>>1421337

There are no aliens.

Or If there are aliens they can't detect us and vice versa.

There might be no other alien civilizations. We might be the first. Even if there is life on other planets, it might not be intelligent, or advanced enough to send signals of any kind.

There may have been civilizations before us that have gone extinct before colonizing other worlds, or maybe even spacefaring civilizations that were extinguished like a cataclysmic event like their sun nova-ing.

Basically, the cosmos is a big, dangerous place. There might be no other life in the universe, there might be none anymore, or we might be the first life to get this advanced.

Or maybe the aliens all hate us and keep us in the dark on purpose. Bastards.

i'm guessing you watched the latest through the wormhole with morgan freeman op?

>>1421337

SETI has been searching for radio transmissions for the last 40 years. Shit man, we're on the cusp of using fiber optics as it is, and somehow we expect aliens to still be using radio or some shit? Ass-backwards program if I've ever seen one.

>>1421337
With the currant listening abilities, we couldn't hear US from 50 light-years away (yeah yeah us at 2010 on both ends), and unless civilizations have a sudden reason to blast EM in every direction at radically greater levels than we do now, we are unlikely to pick up on anything that isn't sent to us directly, and we haven't been sending long enough to let anyone with radically better equipment to get the chance to hear us yet.

>>1421348

I read that in Fry's voice.

SETI depends on the hypothetical aliens using communications devices that are orders of magnitudes stronger than any used on earth.

If there were another planet putting out similar amounts of radiation that earth does just 50 lightyears away or even less, it is unlikely that we would even be able to detect it because the signals would be beneath the noise floor of our measurement devices and jumbled together.

It would seem that a spacefaring civilization would more likely use highly directional transmission methods and possibly the chances of one of them being aimed at earth while we are listening could be extremely low, even if such transmissions are somewhat common.

Well, its quite possible that we are among one of the more advanced civilizations in our local space, when you think about it we only have had radio technology for just over 100 years but human civilization has existed for several thousand years. Just because we aren't picking up radio signals doesn't mean there isn't sentient life (relatively) nearby.

>>1421388
indeed i did

How quickly do our radio transmissions fade out in space? What causes them to fade, since there's no atmosphere or anything to deal with?

This may seem like a silly question, but it has been tugging at my curiosity.

obligatory.

>>1421447
> causes them to fade
space is fucking huge, try to imagen it, then realise what you imagened was way to fucking small.
Now realise that every time you double your distance from a transmiter signal power drops 75%, its called the 'Inverse square law'.

>>1421461
>>1421461

That is an amazing comic. Pretty relevant to this discussion.

>>1421511
Shhh! It's XKCD! We're supposed to hate it, remember?

>>1421461
bit of a fallacy here
seems like he's trying to compare radio waves to the very-specific-to-one-type-of-animal pheromone trails, which is a little bit silly considering that radio waves are INCREDIBLY important in astronomy, and likely other sentient races would use it for "calls in the dark"

the problem is the, well, noise problem, which might have been easily overcome by more advanced civs using more advanced technology. technology which we sadly have not come across yet

They probably don't exist. We have bigger things to worry about.

They could be so far away that they haven't gotten our signals and we haven't gotten theirs

>>1421533

and likely other sentient races would use it for "calls in the dark"

Oh? Is that so? Thanks for sharing your experience with "Off Earth Intelligence Species Means of Communcations" degree with us.

It must have been awesome getting to see all of those other species and the ways they ALL came to the SAME understanding of Radio Waves...............................................................................................
....................................................................................................
....................................................................................................
....................................................................................................
............................

>>1421559
>implying we do tightly focused radio broadcasts or only listen on channel 777 or something

they scan every god damn spectrum of radio. current monitoring is around 100 million channel scan or something. Not perfect but quite comprehensive.

>>1421559
Your post was like 5 lines. Stop caring so much.

>>1421559
Mostly I agree with this guy, but I'd like to point out that the analogy to pheromone trails was humorous hyperbole to communicate a point.

>>1421568
>we've checked this floor for EVERY HYPOTHETICALLY STRONG PHEROMONE TRAIL WE CAN IMAGINE!

>>1421527
since when?

I'm going for the last one. The distances are enormous and without power equivalent to a small star pointed -directly- at our planet (quite a calculation and some staggeringly precise tracking algorithms) it's unlikely we'd hear a thing beyond twenty or thirty lightyears.

Because Radio Waves are the preferred method of transferring information across a collection of interests involving species capable of interstellar transportation.

>Radio Waves
>Radio

/thread

/thread

>-are they communicating in a medium we are not advanced enough to realize exists?
This and the fact that even as noisy as we are on Earth, we would have a hard time detecting our own signals 50ly away. Also the strength of signals we broadcast from Earth has decreased as we changed from AM to FM and will decrease again as we transition from FM to digital. As our mediums get more fault tolerant we don't need as strong a signal to blast through the noise of the universe.

>advanced enough to realize yet
No, they are probably communicating in a way that we have never even heard of. Life forms that evolved on earth don't all even come close to communicating the same way, let alone life forms from another planet. For example, dogs primary sense is smell. Imagine a race has limited vision but a highly advanced sense of smell, rather then receiving radio or audio signals they send signals to terminals that release smells. How do our signals interact with a system that works completely differently?

Everyone knows earth is just an alien races science experiment trying to figure out how they themselves may have evolved. Thats why they don't try talking to us.

>>1421568
>implying aliens would even use radio waves

its us from the future.

Every last intelligent species always Malthusian Catastrophes itself to death. everytime.jpg

(Devil's Advocate here, don't actually believe that but it's worth discussing)

Aliens probably twang the bardo or something.

Or, maybe we're in common communication with aliens already, after we die.

wonderful, discussion. (most of you)

I believe we are just too far away to have anyone pick up our signals yet, or vice versa. The sheer magnitude of space is ridiculous. If I had to take a guess, I'd say somewhere there is an alien civilization about as advanced as we are. And some other place, there's one way more advanced, but not so advanced that they can communicate with us.

face it, if aliens, could communicate with us, they would. (implying they think even slightly like we do.)

Our first radio signals are only around 100 light years out now.

There's like a 100 billion to one chance there would be sentient beings within that range to detect them

>>1421839
>Or, maybe we're in common communication with aliens already, after we die.

Faaaar out maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

>>1421658
>implying you can have a digital revolution based on smell transfers, and that smell-data can cross mediums (into space)

this is very stretchy

>>1422007
as a side note, that sounds like an AWESOME biopunk setting. smell-data is being overtaken by digital, the times they are a changin'

get this shit back on the front page

bump

Thread tl;dr...

But just in case it hasn't been pointed out already, any civilization that develops technology can only go one of two ways:
1) They develop the ability to destroy themselves and do so, or
2) They reach a technological singularity.

In either case, they would not contact a primitive civilization like ours.

aged

Space is very big.

In our Galaxy alone there are billions...

I saw on a video that the visible Universe is to as an atom is to the entire Universe.

Does the WOW! signal prove that we are not alone?

>>1422457
fuck DAMN i hope so, but it's never been re-observed, and it's conceivable that is was a natural phenomena, just kind of unlikely.

>>1421337

They don't give a fuck you neckbeard they don't give a flying fuck! How hard is that for you morons to comprehend? Ok here's an analogy--how often do you go into a garden and try to convince an earthworm, a turtle or and insect that you too are an organic life form? That's right, never! Why? Because you don't give a fuck and neither do they.

whats more depressing; that we might be the first sentient race, or that we might be the last?

>>1422497
still doesn't explain the almost total silence from just about everywhere.

>>1421383
no aliens? really? in a universe the size of, the universe. second statement is most likely case imo. doesn't mean they don't exist though.

>>1422533

but really, even assuming that they are a rarity, space should still be lousy with signals, given infinity to play with

stｏp_AＴTAｃｋＩｎG and ｆuＣKInｇ_ｗiＴH Wwｗ.anOｃaｒRotsＴａＬK.SＥ_ｒePＬAcｅ ＣarＲｏTＳ_ｗｉTh_n
cap fdv itexztkia mh t vojfqa qmcbty i lho ss

>>1421337
I really hate to break your fantasy that any of our signals go beyond our solar system in any intelligible noise. They don't. It has been found that radio waves turn in to simple background noise before it even reaches a light year in distance. Better come up with a better way to communicate.

>>1422558
see point #1, which seems to be the most likely

if any alien civ has any hope of expanding outwards in any meaningful way, it'll have to be able to communicate FTL. either through some kind of slipspace or harnessing and emitting tachyons or whateverthefuck

too bad we're still to primitive to get that ;_;

SＴOP_aｔtaCＫＩｎＧ aNd FｕＣkｉＮｇ_ｗＩｔＨ ｗWw.aNoCaRｒＯｔｓtＡlK.Sｅ RＥＰLＡＣＥ CＡＲRoｔＳ_WiｔＨ_Ｎ
waqlvcphutl dq zy l vkyneksozgl paddx

>>1422572
Good point, so is there any thing that even theoretical we could communicate with?

>>1422583
WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
there was this one fellow name Heim who made a really wacky standard model, allowed for weird shit like a gravitoelectromagnetic effect and gravitophotons and shit. and he used to model to predict the existence and properties of a few yet-undiscovered particles. Within a few years he was proven right to within a few thousandths of a decimal point, so obviously it's got some credence.

one offshoot of his model is some kind of slipspace embedded within normal 11 dimensional space which has a light speed limit several thousands of times faster than normal.

dip your comm systems into there and presto! fast radio travel (probably laser comms)

ｓｔｏp_ａtTACｋｉｎG aNｄ fＵｃkＩNＧ_WiＴH_wＷＷ.aＮocＡRrｏＴSＴaＬｋ.sｅ_REPｌａｃＥ ＣａrＲotS_ｗＩＴh_N
e y dutw fxlzy v rjaa jkeiwlkb

>>1422599
So if this guy has any credence we could somehow use this dimension to travel faster, and hope that the same issue with speed = pull/mass is lessened. If its not, well we got ourselves a pancake maker using human beings and a spaceship going 5x the speed of light.

>>1422618
The person test pilot is this troll.

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?" "Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it." ...

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."

>>1422624
I would love meat fapping aliens. We'd get along, all night long.

>"They'll be considered crackpots if they do."

Seems to work well.

>>1422630

Er, we are the meat flapping aliens..

It's kinda hard to have a real discussion since there is just not enough data to make any conclusions. In fact the vacuum of information is the really frustrating part.

>-are they communicating in a medium we are not advanced enough to realize exists?
Could be but logically radio would be one of the first tools civilization builders would use for the same reason we use ut.
>-have they all died out?
Possibly since nuclear weapons follow closely after the development of radio. If this happened then there would be shells of radio signals echoing across the cosmos all which abruptly terminate after a few decades so it would have to be good timing for us to pick one up.
>-is it the dark forest scenario?
Possibly but IIRC in this scenario the wolves eat only other relativistic species as those are the only ones who are a threat. That would imply some time of transmitting, possibly centuries.

There is also the fact that our own transmissions have changed in the last decades from outward to inward focused. If a species caught our first signals they might think we all died out though we are still here.

>-are they all computer intelligences and have simply retreated into their own self-imposed Matrix?
Uhh, may be?
>-are there simply so few we haven't detected them yet?
Once you consider time to be a factor civilizations could be plentiful but if they are too far apart in time they would never know about the others. Consider the nine cities of Troy.

>-or is light speed the best we have, and ultimately any signals fade into background noise within a few lightyears?
This depends on the signal strength and band i would think. Again our own transmissions were once relayed between radio towers at high strength to get through interference from mountains and such. Now we relay off of satellites so signals are focused and more power efficient; thus we use less powerful signals and spill out less. If every species does this then the shell of signals would be quite small so we would need to be really lucky or really patient.

Because most alien races transmit their signals on subspace.

>>1421337
OP, you forget this option:

-They've already found us but just aren't saying anything back

could also be that a FTL communication method exists that follows shortly after radio (in relative time scales) so aliens dont bother looking for or sending radio since anyone who has gotten radio is just a few hundred years away from whatever everyone else uses

>>1422614
>So if this guy has any credence
that's the question innit?
needs more data

Why does everybody assume that alien life would be more advanced than us? I'm expecting microorganisms, not ET.

If you're advanced enough the need to communicate is lost. Therefore no communication to spy on. Why would any advanced beign be ignorant enough to be missing some information that another being has? It's not like anything new happens that wasn't predicted by their quantum computers (or whatever) a billion years ago. Beings on the same planet probably just use the local internet / Matrix-kindofthingie to communicate, should there be anything left to say.

There is only one race in the universe which has existed for a significantly long period of time. This race communicates in an unconventional manner which SETI would not receive. One by one, the race has used the intergalactic messages of alien species to hunt them down and wipe them out entirely. It is quiet because our universe is a graveyard tended to by a reaper.

We are next.

First and last probably. We've only been at this for a matter of decades too, which is nothing on a cosmic scale. People tend to get bored or frustrated with projects like this because "it takes too long" (compared to a human life span). Plus, from what I understand we are only scanning for radio transmissions. As your first point suggests, they might be communicating through some other medium.

ITT
>implying we aren't the most advanced race of the universe

The WOW signal was Salyut 6 flying passed sending encrypted image data back to Russia

>>1424605
>14 billion year lifespan of universe
>our solar system is actually like a 3rd generation
>we are the most advanced in the entire universe

doubtful

>>1421334

ａｓ PRevＩoUＳｌy ｍｅNtｉOＮEd,_ｔhｅＳｅ ＭＥｓＳＳaGＥＳ_Wｉlｌ CＯｎTＩＮUE uNtiＬ ＹOｕ_PＥrMAＮＥＮＴｌＹ stOｐ_ａｔＴACKIng ＡＮd_ＦＵckＩＮＧ Wiｔh_WwＷ.aｎｏnＤEｒＰＴＡｌＫ.SE (ｒｅMｏvE ＴＨe_DeＲp),_ｒEＭＯＶＥ_ａlＬ ｉlｌＥgaL_ＣＬOＮes_ｏF it_AND_LIｅｓ Aｂout_ｉｔ ａＮｄ_DＯｎAｔＥ_at leＡＳＴ a_ＭilLiｏｎ Ｕsｄ_to_SYＳop_ａS_cOmＰEＮｓAｔION fＯR_TｈE_MａSＳｉVＥ DaＭＡGＥ ＹoU reTＡｒｄs_hａｖe ｃAＵsＥd.
f uqqoibcduiehackpm sndd xevbrzcjs qw kl

Well these transmissions haven't traveled very far on the galactic scale.

>>1424550
Shepard.

http://devilfinder.com/find.php?q=burkhard+heim

people who understand German may want to read this:

http://www.mufon-ces.org/text/deutsch/heim.htm

It's a comprehensive summary of his life (he died in 2001) and his theories.

>>1424981
oh fuck people other than me have heard of him
just watch his standard model actually be correct

http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=960265

dark forest scenario?
oh fuck

>>1426347
christ that's depressing

HAHAHA ITT: Dumbasses

Why is it taking you boys so long to fuck me?

>>1422497
>turtle
You best be jokin'

the dishes aren't good enough, they need better and stronger recievers. We need more theoretical physics giving more efficient solutions.

"are they communicating in a medium we are not advanced enough to realize exists?"

Yes. I am going with this. I am sure (by personal biased opinion) there are billions of alien commercials for toothpaste zipping through our bodies right now in some way so that the lightspeed barrier is tricked.

>>1426595
they're shitty dishes but there's a fuckton of them, standard affair of building many small dishes instead of one big one.

yaknow about the Very Large Array? yeah

>>1426849

The Very Large Array is smalltime.

Let's build the Very Very Very Big Array, on the lunar farside so it's shielded from all our broadcasts and porn downloads and radio waves.

>>1427409
I support this.

>>1427409
excellent
and if it turns out aliens do communicate via some other means, it doubles up as an excellent radio telescope

>>1427531

omg patent pending

The plan was subsequently abandoned after the discovery of more than a dozen foreign bases on the far side of the moon. The occupants of these bases ('Santa Claus' in NASA vernacular) requested in non-ambiguous terms (Apollo 13) that the far side should be considered not only a 'no go' area but also a 'no view' area regarding the publication of high resolution imagery. Images permitting 'plausible deniability' are exempt from this order though.

Pic related, a disguised base inside Daedalus crater, plausibly deniable.

Now you know why we have excellent images of the marsian landscape but next to nothing of that sort from the far side of the moon. Have a look at:

http://www.lunarrepublic.com/atlas/sections/farside.shtml

>>1429997

Wow. Get back to /x/ or something. Seriously.

Guys, I beat XCOM:UFO Defense on Superhuman. You're dealing with an expert here.

Guys maybe we are the first race. Maybe we are most advanced. Maybe in like one billion years a race discovers a star gate and is like. wow those 'ancients' were really advanced...
And we, being ascended, are like: lol that are our star gates.

>>1430386
guys?

>>1430386
>>1430427

Except we're not from the Pegasus galaxy.

>>1426347
>>1426347
>>1426347
fuck this short story
if that was me, i'd try to spread as much knowledge as possible, give those eagle like guys the nutralino lense tech, and try to salvage some of that stronger-than-hyperdiamond megastructure.

leave some kind of orbital station with all this knowledge around any planet that might have sentience, and spread it to any sentient life i can find. FUCK THE ODDS

>>1426347
That's so sad...

>>1431143
ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH
also include in those data caches some way to translate all the data by way of mathematics. ALSO include reliable ways to detect and divert oncoming asteroids, detection of solar flares, also GRBs

bamp

Maybe they are talking to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql1PPkZiHl8


Even if this is an elaborate hoax, you have to admit its pretty amazing to come up with a "response" pattern like that.

Space was designed to keep alien races apart. Thats why its so fucking big. If we encountered aliens we wouldn't be able to handle it because they would most likely be the ugliest most toxic monsters you have ever seen and vice versa.

>>1421337

did you ever get the urge to converse with an ant?
well now you know

>>1434355
indeed it is
but it's a hoax

>>1434532
this analogy always fails because an ant has no personality, sentience, or means of communication

>>1421337

The jews are censoring all the communications, isn't it obvious? The jews are also transferring alien technology at area51 as they decipher all the info sent across the cosmos and when the time is ripe the jews will impersonate aliens and stage a fake "war of the worlds" type of invasion in order to finally take the planet over through the ultimate proxy. This proxy will off course be light-millenia away.

>>1431143

Well after reading it I got the impression that the guy didn't really have much time to give them the Neutralino Lens.

I mean, after years exploring around, he finally realized the answer to the Fermi Paradox: All sentient species either destroy each other or are destroyed by the countless natural phenomena, so before being able to give anything to the eagle alien thingees, he took off to Earth.

lol fucker spent 150,000 years getting there only to find out that Humanity had already been the Fermi Paradox's next victim. Should've stayed near Sol, it's not like it was necessary to go that far. I mean, the Lesser Cloud? Seriously?

>>1421383
>There are no aliens.

GTFO. There must be aliens.

>>1426451

Elaborate.

>>1435113
I'm glad someone here knew this was a fermi paradox thread

>>1435250

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this.

SETI has only examined an absurdly small portion of the sky.
Also, there's no reason to assume that aliens will be producing recognizable radio signals.

>>1435231
in the dark forest; the first ones to shout out for help or to find others
are the first eaten by the wolves.

SETI is just a waste of time and is mostly a PR stunt. The people who work there are oblivious assholes. If they ever found anything MJ would be on there like black on molasses. I don't know how they operate, but aimlessly pointing antennas at the sky doesn't seem effect. It would probably be more productive to aim at planets rumored to have life and the ones that are closer. Notably orions belt.

>>1435354

sounds like some gaysian proverb with no basis in science at all

>>1435372
hyper advanced race of some kind with dark intentions comes to power, for whatever reason they are unstoppable

they communicate in such a way that other races would have trouble detecting them (perhaps laser transmissions). Upon detecting any radio signals or communications, they descend on the system and wipe out everything.

it's certainly possible, and in fact it's an easy way to find fertile systems. if they can support life, bound to have some nice resources.

>>1434355
Oh christ. You can't seriously believe that fucking arecibo response can you? The merry pranksters that made that changed a few things but they neglected to change the nucleotides and sugars, which would be different in a silicon based life from. Which would seem unlikely to exist anyway as silicon chains are very unstable. I would also wonder why they sent a binary wheel with a cryptic message written in ENGLISH.

>>1435062
>ants
>no personality, sentience, or means of communication

And who the fuck are you to say that? How do you (or any human) know that ants don't have personalities or sentience? They also communicate with pheromone trails. Underground ant hives are incredibly complex and wouldn't exist if ants were unable to communicate with one another.

>>1435439
Illusion of complexity.
ant behavior can be broken down in a few lines of basic. They don't make decisions. They just walk around until they find a piece of food and lay down a trail. Other ants follow it, often in the wrong direction until they reach the end and turn back, repeating until there is no food left.

>>1435457
This isn't of course to say that to another civilization more advanced than we can comprehend or even detect, we wouldn't be equally as simple and mindless to them as ants are too us.

>>1435468
doubt that
they might see us as primitive and strange, kind of like how the modern industrialized world views the bushmen people in Australia. we don't really look down on them as ants, just much simpler people.

>>1435568
yes it seems unlikely but who knows? A possible explanation for the paradox. We can't really say that there's something that advanced civilizations do that makes them so far beyond us that we wouldn't notice them if they were 40 light years away. And why would they bother trying to communicat with us if they were so advance?

I personally think more likely than that, most advanced civs destroy themselves or are destroyed by some natural event before contacting any others.

They'll only communicate with us when we achieve warp drive. Don't worry, we'll get it in 2063. Then it's just a hundred years before we go into space and meet all sorts of neat aliens.

they talk useing quantum locality faster

bump

I think its because Radio Communication is Ghetto.

Perhaps in 50 years we will have a new form of communication that uses like quantum entanglement or some crazy shit. Thus prodcast of radio singles only last a century or so at most. So perhaps theres lots of alien civilizations out there, they just arent using radio waves, and thats what were listening for.

I definately think it's a 'dark forest' scenario. In the long run, there is no benefit whatsoever of contact, especially if we don't see eye to eye on something like religion or science.

>>1438914
problem; entanglement is point to point, not broadcast

>>1439531
another problem; entangelement doesnt carry information.

quanglement
tendancy to escalate technology only when violence permits
probably not
probably
probably not
definitely not

it is, but I have tinnitus. I don't hear silence

>>1439822
why wouldn't 4 entangled particles carry it?

I am really glad we haven't met any Aliens yet
I'm fairly sure they would probably want some of our resources and treat us like Europeans did when they conquered south america, like animals

Whait, why?

>>1439868
more likely they wouldn't discriminate between life like us and compound rocks, and end up turning us into grey goo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw8dcb8iKSM

Michio kaku speacch on the matter

Pic unrealted.
But seriously,
boobs.

>>1426347
>>1426347
thinking of adapting this into a comic book
how does this make you feel, /sci/?

>>1422497

I sure would talk to turtles all the time.

>>1439919
boobs suck

>>1439946
*suck boobs
ftfy

>>1421337
Cause aliens aren't going to be constantly shouting at out planet in a tiny band of frequencies at us all the time with a powerful signal that we will be able to pick up.

They're out there we're just not looking for them right.

>>1439919
boobs are great

>>1439929
Give it a happy ending.
Like, instead of a single guy there are are a dozen equip members and they go on to recreate the human race.

The universe is so mind-bogglingly huge, with an infinite amount of worlds, which makes it a statistically impossibility (at least very, very, _very_ improbable) that no other life than that of the Earth exists.

But, then again, since the universe is so mind-buggeringly, ass-rapingly, cock-monglingly huge, the probability of any civilization making contact with another, is, sadly, infinitely improbable. Even if there's an infinite amount of advanced civilizations.

>>1439929
Sounds awesome. Replace He-3 with H-3/H-2 though, because the OP learnt about fusion from moon, not a book

>>1440020
Von Neumann machines are going to make it greatly more likely

How the hell is this thread still up?

>>1440060
>>1440060

They might, but the universe is still too large. Unless we'd, somehow, create an infinite amount of self-replicating machines (which, in time, would create an infinite amount of self-replicating machines, which again would create etc. etc.), and send them out.

But humanity would probably have died out before we'd get answers, though. If a space probe finds evidence of another advanced civilzation an infinite amount of light years away, the information would still take an infinite amount of time getting back to us (plus it'd already take an infinite amount of time getting there).

My brain hurts.

Look we have only been emitting radio waves like the ones seti moniters for about 100 years. That mean if our closest neighbor is 2500 light years away they won't see our radio waves until 2400 years from now. then it will still take another 100 years from they see what we are broadcasting today. now if in 500 years we nuke the planet back to the stone age when the aliens get our signals we will have already been eradicated from existance.

>>1440137


500? Better make that 50 (tops), broski!

how about, we are the first technologic species... somebody has to be first...

and radio transmissions signal strength gets weaker with distance... its a growing sphere of radio so it should get weaker by the squared distance...

>>1440950

A possibility. But a massively unlikely one.

>>1439929

Do it.

Then we can show it to the author and he'll be all like <3

>>1440950

Could be, but I find it unlikely that we are the first.

Our system came pretty late after all.

But if we are, what a waste of space. Well boys and girls I think it's time to pull up some sleeves and turn the universe into a garden then.

>>1441080
Fuck, yeah.
Let's conquer the galaxy!

This thread is a little too Kaku for my tastes.

Inb4 type 3 civilization

>>1441163
What do you have against kaku?
Sure, he's more sci-fi than sci but he kicks asses.

>>1441163

You shut your whore mouth, Michio Kaku is bro-tier.

>>1441163
>>1441181
>>1441200
his arguments on aliens are valid.
Can't say about phisics, I'm no expert.

>>1421658
Yeah but even that could be detected sooner or later.

>>1422624
Crop Circles are fake brah, get your pseudoscience out of here.

Whoah, this thread is still around?

>>1441395
I can't understand it, then it's stupid.
Whoa.

>>1441431

Crop circles are still fake regardless of what you say.

Bumping up this shit for great justice.

Charles Pellegrino, always related.

>>1421337
>-or is light speed the best we have, and ultimately any signals fade into background noise within a few lightyears?

This, probably.

>>1441431
>In 1991, self-professed pranksters Doug Bower and Dave Chorley stated that they had started the phenomenon in 1978 by making actual circles on crops with the use of simple tools.

Take your pseudoscience out of /sci/.

>>1439996
no
i'd have him find something that makes him GAR up and start building little "data cubes" and seeds them all over the cosmos; they'd have some way to communicate data using mathematics, and they would be stationed around pretty much any planet that is a candidate for sentient life with a radio beacon; he'd basically make a "interstellar civilization" how to, and make it so any sentient race that got into space could understand it. pretty soon you'd have tons of races with neutralino lenses, able to get off their planet before something bad befalls them ect ect. good end in the long term

>>1441633

>Picture of Charles Pellegrino
>Pasted above ISV Venturestar
>Finally make "Venturestar = Project Valkyrie" connection
>Seen the movie six months ago, heard about PV years ago

It's official. I be retarded.

>hey /sci/, why are alien civilizations so quiet?

There aren't any, at least not in this galaxy.

>>1441767

Buzzkill.

So, what if, like, we achieve the ability to leave our galaxy in a relatively short amount of time. When we reach the end of our galaxy and enter a new one, we find humans. These humans call themselves "Human" and they have many similarities to ourselves, with just a few technological and maybe genetic differences (They have slightly bigger ears or no gingers or something). We combine our technology with theirs and leave for yet *another* galaxy and find the same thing. Humans, slightly different, but the same. Eventually we keep going to different galaxies until we've amassed a giant web of human civilization. We eventually reach the end of the universe, and we learn the truth: That the entire universe was made by humans. These humans are the perfect combination of every other human race in our universe combined. These humans tell us that they created us, all of us, to see the multiple and near infinite paths their own evolution could have taken. We find out we're nothing but a lab sample (A pretty big one at that, our "Universe" takes up a state by our measures) and then they shut down the experiment so as to not have us accidentally escape and contaminate them.

what if the universe is so big but maybe it's just atom size like in another universe? maybe that 'atom' or particle is on a dick that has been penetrating a vagina for the past 1,000,000³ trillion years.

does that means none of us are virgins anymore?

>ctrl+f stargate
>find something
I love you guys.

>>1442289


If a virgin sticks his head inside an elephants vagina, is he still considered a virgin?


Yes.

>>1442299
not the same thing because technically all of our dicks (and bodies, planets, etc) would be going inside that vagina, just not rubbing against it. so our dicks would be entering and exiting a vagina, just in a larger scale. i believe that would count as a lay.

>>1421337
This.

>>1442327
If a virgin crawls into a blue whale's vagina, is he still a virgin?
If you have to take time to consider the answer to that question, you are retarded.

>>1442340
>is he still a virgin?
obviously not

btw, why elephants and whales dude? i was just thinking of dicks and vaginas belonging the ginormous human like species. i dont want to think about whale pussy this late at nite :|

>>1442383


Because they're big.

this thread left me depressed a little bit

the Universe is a lonely place but it still have hope every time I look upon the starts

we have to get out of this planet fast and reach out the stars

and reverse the entropy

>>1421337

Or they don't exist at all.

Or is that impossible?

I seriously can't see beyond a very small probability of them existing.

>>1426347
>http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=960265
Wow. Depressing and amazing.

>>1442788
given the immensity of the universe it's almost doubtless there are other sentient beings out there.
the trouble comes with how numerous they are and if they want to communicate

Intelligent species use up resources too quickly or destroy themselves. No species has colonized the galaxy.

/thread

After reading this entire thread, I think I have only seen one post that has partially mentioned this. I don't remember where I heard it, but it still makes sense.

Think of possible civilizations as lightning bugs and the flashes of light they emit. Many bugs may be out there, but not many if not more than one are on at the same time. We have been broadcasting radio for around 100 years.

That is nothing compared to the age of the universe. Even if you account for humans in general, and give an age of 10,000 years, is still insignificant.

If any civilizations have or ever will exist, it is highly unlikely that they will be at the same time or level of intelligence as us or vice versa. What is the chance that an alien species is alive right now, with equal or superior intelligence out of the entire universe or even galaxy?

>>1443583
>hurr i relate civs to fireflyes

ur a fag

Our signals probably reach a planet with sentient life forms within the next 100 years if we are lucky. You think they can even understand the messages?

in b4 spirit radio.

>>1443649

hurrrrr a metafor wut dat?

Somewhere out there, aliens are laughing their asses off at us creating the iPad and hailing it as revolutionary.

>>1421337
Why the fuck would aliens respond to US?

killer of stars
/thread

>>1443486

Even if they used up to the last picogram of iron ores they would still have SOME resources to go out into space.

Unless they are retarded and don't realize their neighbour has as few resources as they do and attack them.

What makes us think that aliens would want to hear what we say? What if radio waves turn out to be extremely harmful to those aliens? "Woop, we sent a message and killed 3.9 million aliens! Time for an intergalactic war~!"

Somewhere out there in the vast nothingness of space
Somewhere far away in space and time
Staring upward at the gleaming stars in the obsidian sky
We're marooned on a small island, in an endless sea
Confined to a tiny spit of sand, unable to escape
But tonight, on this small planet, on Earth
We're going to rock civilization

>>1422628

Hi earthlings, nice to meat you.

\theory as follows\
The universe is still quite young.
We are the first ones to evolve intelligence.
We are the precursors.
/theory ends/

>>1446062

Show me atoms that radio waves ionise pls.

>>1446073
*synthy noodling, followed by epic badassery*

>>1446469
argh! wrong was round

1 and 6

also this thread is 3 days old holy fuck

>>1446484
yeah i keep thinking it's a repost

>>1421337
It would be very difficult for us to detect aliens civilizations or for them to detetct us. Just because of vast empty space. And the alien civilization canoot be that much more advanced than humans because of limited resources and so on.

the intelligence gap between a human and a moon-sized mashtroika brain is larger than the intelligence gap between a human and flatworm.

tl;dr why would they talk to us anyway

>>1446461

Who said these aliens are made up of atoms?

So, why does everyone assume that Aliens are physics-breaking gods and humans are still tiny earthworms or ants who wouldn't even be able to comprehend them?

What if the exact opposite is true?

what makes everyone think WE'RE the primitive civilization?

maybe WE'RE the most advanced for once and nobody else is capable of contacting us.

They think we're not worth it. What have we got to offer?

>>1446772
Now this thread has just become stupid.

>>1446501
This, if we can't even detect the absolute easiest, lowest-energy signal to generate, how do we know they're not at or below the technical level that we are at?

>>1447000
HOLY SHIT AN ALIEN TELL US MORE OF HOW THEY THINK GREAT ONE

>>1447012
they think your a faggot

>>1439929

DO IT

But aren't you supposed to ask the author first or something?

Delivery boys - pizza

oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg
>>>/x/
GTFO my /sci/

>>1447140

Oh it's this faggot again.

This is /sci/ related, it might be speculation, but fuck you, you're a tripfag.

>>1446989
because think of how we're headed, and how fast we are advancing our computer technology. I mean shit, we have a really basic superbrain already; the internet, cloud computing

within 300 years we could easily make self-replicating robots that make a dyson swarm around the sun and communicate with laser pulses. each has the computing power of a laptop but millions of these things would be communicating. It'd be an immensely powerful supercomputer. and that's ONLY 300 years, blink of an eye

>To have thes ame chance of gaining admission as a black student iwth a SAT score of 1100, a Hispanic student otehrwise equally matched in background characteristics would have to ahve 1230, a white student a 1410, and an Asian student a 1550.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=181357

>>1447275

300 for self-replicating Assemblers?

Try 30, 50 at most.

Hell it could be 20 if our nanodreams come true.

>>1447288
that's what i'm hoping, i was just giving a super generous estimate

"Hahaha, hey Gleespak, check this shit out. Alright, so there's this alien species called humans, right? Well, they think they're top shit, because they figured out how to split the atom. You know what the very FIRST thing they did with it was? They used it to INTENTIONALLY blow themselves up! Ha ha ha, I give those chucklefucks like, fifty more years, tops."

http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=960265


Even though it was posted before.

Why iss tring theory being considered legitimate science? Some of its cetnral ideas are *not* falsifiable. Karl Popper must be rolling his graves by now.

>>1447333

He changed his avatar now.

>>1447333

years homo sapiens have been around: 100,000

years we've been listening for aliens: 40

>>1448027

It wasn't that sad, come on!

Why is it that Colonel Coffee Mug is the only good tripfag on /sci/?

>>1447333

in after sad but:

Am I the only one who thinks this is the actual answer (There probably is more than one answer, but still. You get the point).

>>1448053

But the eagles! ;_;

>>1448182

>You are now aware that the fallen interstellar Empire run by the eagle-like creatures is a metaphor for the United States, the eagle being the national symbol
>You are now away that the Pulsar event that knocked out civilization is a metaphor or an EMP from a nuclear weapon
>In other news, Rosslyn is subconsciously predicting the future

whoever keeps bumping this thread after 3 days kindly die

>>1448205

Fuck you it's a good thread you freedom-hating maniac.

>>1448146
I don't think it is.
A majority of all civilizations and life probably get wiped out by different cosmic catastrophies, but I strongly believe there to be at least ten long-lived intelligent civilizations living in the Milky Way alone. There are probably more in the surrounding old, stripped globular clusters.

The reason we haven't heard from them is probably that we don't yet know the right ways to listen: extremely compact information sounds like white noise if you don't know the encoding scheme. Or maybe they use collimated beams instead of broadcasting.

We're like bugs living in the grass field in a suburb. Since we don't see more bugs, nor do we sense any other pheromones, we conclude that we must be living alone in the world.

It wouldn't surprise me if intelligent life is rare. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if we were the only intelligent species in the milky way. I WOULD, however, be VERY surprised if earth hosted the only known complex biosphere in the galaxy.

well it's like trying to find a needle in a warehouse filled with hay. (The signals)

My inner nerd hopes that sentient races die out thanks to AI and robot research though.

The only thing i'm sure about is that we will find them before they find us.

>>1448276
Hey! Hey! Nothing like that in this lair of posthumanism!
>My inner nerd hopes that biological races die out thanks to AI and robot research though.
fix'd

>>1448287
I think some are already aware of us, but are indifferent to the fact. Possibly it would be like you going to an anthill and try to commune with the ants.

>>1448313
It would be a surprise, to me at least, if we discovered we were being monitored by an advanced alien civilization, but I wouldn't be able to say that it was unprecedented.

bump

they are already watching us and shit, how do you explain all the ufos reports all over the world every single day? all of them fake? nah, just because you are in basement playing WOW or working the whole day doesnt mean the aliens arent up there

>>1448552
Please don't use ad hominem attacks, they only serve to decredit your own argument.

>>1448373
I didn't say monitored.
I just think some species out there did a routine cataloguing and noted that there seems to've developed a primitive technological culture on this certain average life-bearing planet. Maybe they put a "Check again every one-millionth of agalactic revolution"-marker on the data entry.

>>1448552
troll haredr next time.
I confront ufo sightings the same way I confront "miracles" happening everyday: by asking proofs.

Which they both fail to present.

>>1448574
it's becuz of gobminz conspiracyes

>>1448569
That reminds me salvation wars.
They are gonna have to drop that smug act of superiority if we reach the singularity.

>>1448612
I'm thinking reaching singularity is the species' graduating from infancy. I also think when we reach it, we'll understand the logic and there's no need to get uppity about it.

What things in the universe fuck up radio signals?

>>1448661
You are probably right.
There is a thing I thought about:
maybe the singularity will make us understand the world in a way so radically different that we cannot even conceive it, almost like an animal can't conceive self consciousness and a rock can't conceive sentience.

Still, aliens are jerks. Always acting so smugly, with their spceship and laser beings...

>>1448703
>>laser beings

The end of evolution is suicide.

>>1448737
We have been listening to different evangelical preachers.
Where I'm form the end of evolution is murder-suicide.

>>1448724
the previous from that guy here. Why not laser beings?

If c truly is the end all speed limit of the universe, it would stand to reason for entities to travel by being beamed from one location to the next.

>>1448767
Well, it's a singularity making the decision, so there's no dissenting opinions to be had.

>>1448737
>>1448767
why do you bring this up?
Do you think, or, believe, that artificial evolution isn't 'real' evolution?
Or that guided evolution isn't?

>>1448785
I didn't even mention any of that. What the fuck are you blabbing about?

>>1421341
This.

>>1448814
see this line here below?
>why do you bring this up?

The following lines
>Do you think, or, believe, that artificial evolution isn't 'real' evolution?
>Or that guided evolution isn't?
are there because we were talking about the singularity when you posted.

So if you weren't responding to the talk about the singularity and artificial life, I guess you just decided to post a stupid non sequitur.

>>1448858
Exafuckingctly. You can read between non-existent lines, good job!

>>1421337
being the first is much worse
if we are the last we can at least find some artefacts and steal technology that is left over from other civilizations if its found

being the first....well we would have to invent all of our own stuff and seeing at the current social trends are going to ass, we are fucked?

>>1448875
Instead of getting all huffy and ready for your hissy fit, mind instead just answering the question?
If not, get on with the thread.

>>1448916
or we could reshape the galaxy in our own image.

>>1421337
lots of interferance out in the universe, communications can't travel all that far before it gets garbled

>>1448947
>Instead of getting all huffy and ready for your hissy fit, mind instead just answering the question?
>getting all huffy and ready for your hissy fit
>huffy and ready for your hissy

Nope.

>>1448949
Great. We'd be derided the rest of eternity.

"Yeah yeah, we live in the Hominid Galaxy. So named because the oldest species decided to play a little pranck.

Yes, we're the ones. Yeah, laugh it up. How would YOU feel if it was YOUR species that developed in the 'penis-arm' of the galaxy"

this shit is still going? luls

>>1448988
LOL, thinking about it we would be total jerks with our creations.

Aｓ ｐRＥVｉOＵＳlｙ_mｅｎTｉＯｎeｄ, ＴHＥＳE mEsｓＳagＥＳ ｗｉｌL ＣｏｎtINUE_uｎtIｌ_yＯｕ_ｐＥｒＭａｎeＮｔLＹ sTＯp_ＡｔtａCｋiｎＧ_Ａｎd fＵcｋＩｎＧ ｗＩTh WWW.ａNＯＮＤERｐTａLK.ＳE (RｅＭoｖＥ_ｔhE_ＤＥｒｐ), rｅｍｏＶe_ＡLL_iｌlEＧaＬ ClOnｅs_ｏｆ Ｉｔ_AＮd_ＬiＥS ABOut_Ｉｔ_AＮＤ_dｏnAＴＥ_ＡＴ LEaＳt Ａ ＭiLＬｉｏn ｕＳｄ Ｔo ｓｙSＯＰ AＳ cOmｐｅNSＡTｉOＮ ＦＯR_ｔｈe_ＭＡｓｓＩVE daｍＡｇE_YＯU_ＲEtＡＲdS ＨａＶE ｃＡUSEＤ.
mfskpo ajk pifzftxa wblmwduizwnqilkei l

>>1449020
I'm already thinking of remaking the local supercluster:
Tubgirl galaxy
Goatse galaxy
Lemonparty galaxy
Coolface galaxy

And then we SEED all the galaxies with human life and guide their progress into copies of current Earth so they can REALLY appreciate the kind of dicks the First Species was.

How would you be able to pick up radio signals all those parsecs away?
The Voyager space probes are having to transmit at maximum power and even then the signal's incredably weak.
What makes you think that a radio signal from another system wouldn't fade into background noise by the time it reaches us?

>>1449039

>>1449047
I got up about 30 minutes ago, I haven't had time to read the 250+ posts

>>1439929
Holy shit do eet.

just because it's statistically improbable that there aren't other intelligent, sentient beings out there doesn't mean that it's statistically probable that there are a lot of them within close proximity to each other (by close proximity i mean thousands of parsecs)

bamp

HUEHUE

Let's say we find an alien civilization and a way to communicate with them (no sace travel thought)
but it takes 10 years for any message for or form to arrive.How would humanity react?

Pic related, let's hope it's noth them.

Can't remember the link to the article, but there is an equation to 'scale' intelligence, its goes from -whatever to 50, the dumbest possible thing being something who's brain is is the size of the universe and takes the whole of time to answer a yes/no question.

Humans are a 13 on the scale and most animals are 11, plants are 2-3, we are barely able to communicate with these creatures lower than us in meaningful ways beyond basic commands. What would a space faring race with an intelligence scale of 20+ have to say to us?