/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1336012
Nothing will ever happen with this.
Keep dreaming, losers.

>>1336020
I love your constructive personality.

>>1336020

When did your dreams die?

>>1336036
Prove me wrong, kids.
Prove me wrong.

>>1336020
If it is never tried, why bother with anything. We should all just fall on the ground and die, because all is pointless. Right?

>>1336042
Only nightmares, no dreams.

>>1336012
I consider this a moot ambition if stricter copyright laws are ever enforced.

>>1336052
Why not?
We will all die, so why not speed things up a bit?
I haven't killed myself because I don't have the energy for it and I don't like pain.

>>1336066
Because we still do exist. If death is quite so preferable to you, why not end it now? Because your curiosity is ill-inclined to do so.

>>1336020
this is /sci/

Why would a technocracy never happen?

>>1336073
inefficiency

>>1336073
Specialized societies have always failed before, so I don't see why yours should be any different.

>>1336080

>>1336080
One word explains nothing.

I'd prefer a society run by technical experts/scientists, rather than a society run by politicians. We are moving into the future, and technology is paramount in it.

>>1336072
No, it's just that I can't summon the energy to kill myself.

>>1336073

Because a technocratic bureaucracy would need to be staffed by the sorts of men we currently give away PhDs to. We'll run short of talent.

Okay guys I'm closing the 4chanarchive thing.

>>1336095
Take a knife and stab yourself in the throat, clean and efficient. Doesn't take too much energy.

>>1336101
I don't like pain either.

Explain what a technocratic society entails, besides the obvious.

>>1336099
This is sadly the only setback, manpower... Not much scientists/technical experts in this world.

However, there is a solution to such. It would require brainstorming.

>>1336091
science has no morals and can be heartless to the feeble

>>1336103

1. Equality is bullshit. Everyone is NOT created equally.

>>1336102
Alright, strike your central nerve point on side of your head. Instant death, no pain.

>>1336103
A bunch of idiots who think robots and AIs will do all their work for them without realizing that there are no robots and AI now to do that for them.
Alternatively, a bunch of pot-smoking faggots dreaming about a singularity a.k.a nerd rapture that will never come.

>>1336109
The minds are not equal, but the goal is the same. Scientific progression. However, only those with real minds are welcome... else you'd be lost.

>>1336112
Troll Hard.

Acquire non-existent fame.
Fail hard.

>>1336112
So basically someone just watched zietgest?

>>1336112
You must have not read the previous thread at all, do your research next time at-least troll. Makes you sound less like an idiot then...

>>1336111
Don't believe you.

>>1336116

Of course, we will let it people who aren't ignorant. Everyone can help advancement in their own way.

>>1336112

A technocracy is where leaders are chosen based on their knowledge and skill rather than political influence/popularity.

You're thinking of transhumanism. Two totally different things.

>>1336119
Zeitgeist is a circlejerk of stupidity and equality

A Technocracy is a society run by technical experts and scientists.

>>1336112
>>1336109
>>1336103
Can I get a concise definition from a (close to)neutral party?

>China has been described as a Technocracy

Zeitgeist - A conspiracy lololol equality ebilz corporationz

Technocracy - starting from a corporation and branching out based on skill and intellect.

Obviously the same thing?

>>1336133
Communist state with technocratic undertones, not true technocracy.

>>1336120
I'm not trolling. You're just thinking that you are some hero in an Ayn Rand novel.

>>1336130
Technocracy is a hypothetical form of government in which engineers, scientists, and other technical experts are in control of decision making in their respective fields. The term technocracy derives from the Greek words tekhne meaning skill and kratos meaning power, as in government, or rule. Thus the term technocracy denotes a system of government where those who have knowledge, expertise or skills compose the governing body. In a technocracy decision makers would be selected based upon how highly knowledgeable they are, rather than how much political capital they hold.

>>1336138
Ayn Rand is retarded, I don't see how this correlates. You are mixing libertarianism with technocratism. Fail less please.

>>1336126
The nerd rapture is the end game for y'all faggots, though.

>>1336103

The ideal is to have a ruling/administrating class chosen based on capacity to rule/administer, rather than strength, wealth or popularity. In practice this generally gets as far as a strong, sheltered bureaucracy and a moderately authoritarian government. Japan in the postwar era, Imperial China and the Incas are perhaps the best examples of technocratic systems we have had.

Nobody is created equal. Not even close. THat would be quite boring.

Instead, equal opportunities are made available. And with the sweat of your brow, the Technocratic Republic of Scichan can be yours too.

>>1334374

>>1336141
True definition.

The plan:

1. License and manufacture the design for a fusion reactor from Lawrenceville Plasma Physics.
2. Use profit from reactor production to either
--buy several old cargo ships or supertankers to use as the base for our country
--or buy up large swaths of land with secured water rights
3. Use fusion reactors for power.

Remember, the corporation has to remain private, other wise it becomes beholden to public stockholders and the quest for profit, and it would be lost for the purposes of our endeavor.

'Thus the term technocracy denotes a system of government where those who have knowledge, expertise or skills compose the governing body. In a technocracy decision makers would be selected based upon how highly knowledgeable they are, rather than how much political capital they hold.'

Sounds good to me in theory. But wouldn't those who don't have access to a proper education be left on the bottom, and in tern rebel? Could the educated elite control the ignorant populace?

>>1336161
http://terra.realbb.net/forum.htm

The forums for these discussions.

>>1336165
If everyone have equal and precise education, those who are ignorant are ignorant by their own stupidity. We aren't going to carry the people who don't do anything and leech off the intelligent.

>>1336141
It's the same subjective wanking about being the ruling class that motivates you.
Philosophers want the philosophers to be the ruling class, military cunts want the military to be the ruling class, etc.
You are no different.

>>1336165

You could take a socialist approach and make sure everyone has access to education and ensure a minimal living standard for the plebs. Or you could distract them with shitty movies and mass produced crap à la brave new world.

>>1336171
Technology is the future, and skill is what ushers it. Philosophers are simply idea generators and military is brute strength. It is not the same, and you are just trolling.

>>1336161
0. Find investors who are willing to spend billions of dollars of fucking fusion reactors!

>>1336165

That's where I come in.

>>1336176
Definitely not a socialist approach, than it becomes a damn Venus project. The stupid and ignorant who stupid and ignorant by their own choice, do not deserve to be carried.

Why start with a corporation? Didn't work out so well for the Americas. The people in charge of the corporation will just be doing it for profit and staying on top of the economy, they wouldn't give a shit about making a good country.

>>1336171

If there is a ruling class, somebody has to man it. There is therefore a legitimate debate as to who is the most expedient choice.

http://terra.realbb.net/forum.htm

First forum for the discussions.

>>1336179
You're just mad because your skills do not automatically make you a member of the ruling elite instead of being a useful and well-paid tool.

>>1336195
Obvious troll now. At-least try to be less obvious.

>>1336190
Don't try to feign objectivity, though.
You want power for the sake of power, otherwise you would have seen that there are other aspects to society than science and technology.

>>1336203
Of course there are, but the point is there will always be a main group. Technocracy proposes that group by the technical experts and scientists, not the political capitalists. There are spaces for the other groups as well.

>>1336195
T r o l l

>>1336187

Socialism has many flavors man. The venus project isn't socialism. It's a resource-based economy.

You're not going to have new generations of qualified leaders if you don't make sure everyone gets a damn good education. If you want to be an objectivist cunt you might as well buy some land in the middle of no where and do everything yourself. A society of objectivist won't get very far, it requires working together as a group and sharing resources. You can't shit on an education system and expect to be a world-power. You can't let your economy run the government either.

>>1336202
Why am I a troll?
Are you not motivated by feeling that you deserve to rule and current society will not let you?

>>1336169
>everyone has equal education
This seems spectacularly impossible

>>1336176
But in Brave New World people were always secure in their own caste. This wont be the case in reality.

>>1336184
I don't follow

>>1336216

>>1336195
Random Anon here!
I don't want to be a member of the elite! I
want to become a cybernetic police officer
that serves the Technocracy!!!!!

>>1336220

I keep the people from rebelling. I throw campaign promises, explain to them what we are doing in simple terms, and just generally act like a member of Public Relations.

>>1336203

Only if you irrationally restrict the domains of science as you tend to. And whereas I may be in it for the wealth and prestige, certainly, I'm not in it for the power. As an aspiring scientist, I hereby state that the ruling class MUST BE COMPOSED OF ENGINEERS. Engineers get shit done. Let them get shit done. And let us do our science free from red tape and commercialisation.

>>1336231
Wealth and prestige is power, young padawan.

>>1336225

Laputan Machine

>>1336229
What if the oligarchs take away something trivial the plebs like. How will you play that off? I reckon that will happen a lot.

>>1336231
So you want to live in Communist China of today then?
Most of the ruling elite in China have engineering backgrounds.
I don't want a Chinese-style society.

Science is glorious.

We are tired of the damn rules, the red tape. Scientific progression must never be halted, and the current society chains it. We will break the chains, and set them alight with molten fire.

>>1336220

There is nothing about Technocracy that precludes the existence of caste. I personally do not believe it is the most efficient structure, but if someone can prove me wrong I will adjust my perspective.

That's what I feel is the beauty of the model. There is no dogma, no preconceptions, no antiquated ethics. Just efficiency.

>>1336237
Ha! Ha! Nice try! Thats not my kill phrase!

>>1336239

Just throw them in the VR simulator until they are docile.

>>1336240
The Chinese government HAS to rule China with an iron fist; it's a country of over 1.2 billion.
Whereas this nation probably wouldn't go above 10 million in population. We have the upper hand.

>>1336241
Victory through progress.

>>1336240

I'd much rather live in China than India. As to whether I'd prefer to live in China or where I am now, ask me when China is a developed nation. I suspect the answer will be yes.

>>1336249

What was it again? Flatlander Woman?

>>1336257
I'm sure you'll enjoy making smartphones 24/7 when you're in the re-education camp, political prisoner 24443C34334E:FF.

>>1336269
That would be the workforce... It's what they are supposed to do.

>>1336251
Very well. Two rebuttals.
1. What of the time before VR, or anything comparable, exists.
2 How will you select which ones are worthy of the top tier. There must be a middle ground of some sort where the line is blurred.

>>1336272
Everyone likes fascism when they are the fascists.

>>1336259

Nope. My girl friend is laughing at you right now, were connected though our augmentations info links. *dramatic pause* Hey... Are you there? Hello?! *Looks at you* YOU BASTARD!!!111000...1

>>1336272
Try disagreeing with the rulers and see what will happen to you, Mr. Not work force.

Though the Venus Project is a load of shit, I think we should consider trying to automate industry as much as possible.

>>1336279
You disregarded my point, and decided to go off topic. Ok. What else is a workforce supposed to do, other than work? A workforce working is implied.

>>1336288
Obviously, I'm just going to go up to them and say HEY NIGGER YOU GAY... Subtlety is far superior to stupidity.

>>1336275

I'll continue talking to them of course. We won't restrict any rights, we just want to improve society with technology.

Top/God tier are scientists and engineers. Everyone else is below them. Our education system will be fair, you'll learn unless you choose to be ignorant.

>>1336291
It is eventually get more advanced as time goes on. While a human workforce is still needed in modern times, soon it would not be.

>>1336296
>We won't restrict any rights
Does this mean marijuana is legal?

>>1336292
The point is that there is a difference between a work force and a slavery system like the one they have in China now, only they put dissenters in prison and then make them work for free as part of their punishment.

>>1336303

Just keep your facts straight and don't act like a fucking idiot.

As the Great One said "Smoke Weed Everyday."

>>1336304
I wasn't talking about China. I meant a workforce in general. The workforce in China cannot be considered a workforce. it is just slavery.

>>1336269

1. Developed nation. The smartphones would most likely be assembled elsewhere, as it would be inefficient to produce them locally. Designing smartphones on the other hand, maybe.
2. China has a smaller prison populace proportion than the US. Purely statistically, I am less likely to be behind bars there than I am in the land of the free.
3. Assuming :FF is, say, a prisoner classification, that leaves 12 hex digits for the prisoner number. 16^12 is in the order of 300 trillion. If we manage to fit that many humans on the Earth, I think my incarceration is a small price to pay for a society this impressive.

>>1336310
Slavery should not be limited to one planet or even one planetary system.
I have plans...

>>1336296
How many top tier elites are allowed? How great can the divide in knowledge be when everyone gets the exact same education. Who sits on the council, and more importantly which ones are kept out.

>>1336307
Sounds good boss.

However trolls mighty deny it, scientific progress is the future. Not politicians, not military, Science. This is why a technocracy is inherently more beneficial. Technical experts and scientists are best for fixing and monitoring a technological society.

>>1336314

Because SCIENCE.

/sci/, what if this actually fully takes off and we become the next superpower in 50 years?

>>1336314
The council is every specialist, and they each branch off into their respective fields. The administration however, can be anyone.

>>1336328

If it takes off, make it 100 years.

>>1336314
When automated machinery will eventually start taking over the workforce, the workforce population would probably die off. Cruel, but well efficiency and progress require sacrifice.

On top of SCIENCE, we should also encourage creativity. Art, music, and things like that.

>>1336338
Might be sooner, since the other superpowers are starting to crumble. China, even.

>>1336342
Culture is very important as well. Technocracy just means the specialists make the important decisions, nothing else. Society is free to evolve culture in beneficial ways. Unless you start doing retarded up the ass shit.

>>1336340
This is what will happen, and I accept it. Not everything will happen nice and dandy. Death is a natural part of life.

-Yoda

>>1336342

I'll support the arts. I love classical music. But if I hear any fucking rap with their "Bitches. Money. Drugs. Sex." talk, we will come down on you with fiery wrath.

I'm not impressed /sci/. Although I'd love for this system to one day manifest itself, it just doesn't seem realistic. I mean that in a mechanical sense. Sure, technology will become more and more important, but will that stop people from holding traditions?

>>1336352
Traditions should only be seen as guidelines or opinions. When people start to take it as law, is when stagnation occurs. Change is needed.

>>1336342
>>1336346
Where does this all fit into my dream
[>>1336225] of become a cybernetic
cop in this new nation?

>>1336356
You can kill off the useless people who walk around doing nothing. And listening to retarded rap music.

>>1336356
By cybernetic cop, what do you mean exactly?

>>1336356

You keep the peasants in line.

http://terra.realbb.net/forum.htm

Forum for discussions when threads 404 or such.

This is the shittest day of my life.

>>1336350

No. No censorship of the arts. It's better to produce some shit rather than risk stagnation and decay.

>>1336366
Mindless droning about sex bitches drug and money is not culture. It is mediocrity. There is a large difference.

One thing /sci/, I will not be a part of this if you just kill people just for being lazy, or stupid. First of all, the project is then instantly doomed to fail. Second, I just don't feel like being the second coming of Stalin.

Just strongly discourage it.

>>1336363
Awesome! What implants do I get?

>>1336371
If scientific progression is too occur, what use are the useless lazy bums for? We are not here to carry them.

>>1336372

Just tell us what you want.

>>1336380
Use them as lab rats, duh!

>>1336371
Inur, nothing works dandy and nice. When a person just wants to leech off society and contribute nothing. Why should he get anything?

>>1336370

That's not the point. The point is that any judgment on this issue is necessarily subjective and therefore goes against the very foundations of what we are trying to create.

>>1336331
I'm concerned mostly with those administering the system. They make the decisions. Who will take that place?
>>1336340
Without a workforce who will go next? The population of the top tier will grow and thus be harder to manage. But say you has strict birth controlling and all the people are content with their lots in life. But where are the artists? The musicians? Has culture removed itself from society?

>>1336386
How does instant gratification concur with scientific progress? Instant gratification is what modern pop culture it all about. Can't even call it culture really.

>>1336393

Can you give an objective definition of pop culture that will allow a deterministic automaton to distinguish between it and "real" culture?

>>1336388
It is not some insane police state, only thing is instead of politicians making the difficult decisions, technical experts and scientists will.

>>1336400
Instant Gratification.

>>1336400
Culture is meant to be inspiring and beautiful. Not dumbed with song about how to fuck bitches get money kill people and do drugs. That is just retarded.

>>1336403

No. That's meaningless drivel. Take two audio streams as input. How do you propose to determine which one is worth preserving and which one isn't? How do you test for "instant gratification"? Wavelength? Frequency? Vocabulary?

>>1336411
The meaning is in the songs... not the songs themselves. That's like saying all our culture is, is sound waves generated by our mouths.

>>1336355
Let's look at the early years. You have nation A, that has decided/been forced to become a technocracy. What about nations B-Z, all with varying governments. If you progress as fast as you are saying, would you not become a viable threat quickly?

If the population and society is mostly scientific and intelligent, culture why that won't even exist so why bother doing anything to it. Those that do try to make such retarded music, will be laughed at for their stupidity.

>>1336417
If we start to threaten governments that quickly yes. It's why starting as a corporation is more efficient.

>>1336414

And I'm saying you have no way of objectively determining which songs meet our criteria of culture and which don't. It's not science. Unless you can come up with some empirically measurable standards of culture you can't make the judgment call.

>>1336422

How does corporation protect itself from being nationalised if it is considered a threat?

>>1336401
So the scientists and experts must also learn how to properly administrate an entire country? They also have to deal with outside influences, if there are any.

>>1336381
1: High performance military grade
prophetic arms and legs (With built-
in nonlethal weapons.

2: Minor augmentations that add extra
senses--have to be useful to me as
a cop.

3: Minor augmentations that enhance
my general athletic abilities.

4: A brain to computer/network
interface that has high grade
anti viral and back-hacking
functions.

Along with life time medical insurance,
life time cybernetic maintenance
(with monthly tone ups and yearly
upgrades), and life long service s (with suitable life extension p procedures).

>>1336437
International corporations. Diplomatic Immunity.

>>1336385
I mean not actively killing. You don't need to support them. I do think we should have universal healthcare and schooling though. Perhaps subsidized university?

>>1336445

Yeah, good luck with that. Somehow I'll feel safer with a standing army and a nuclear cache.

>>1336447
Inur we aren't socialists lol. If they don't want to bother trying to succeed, they wouldn't fit in the society. Sure they'd eventually starve to death, isn't it better just to kill them?

>>1336456
I hope you're a fucking troll.

Or are you just from /new/?

>>1336445
How do you go from international business to world encompassing government?

>>1336456

You must balance the efficiency gained from culling them with the additional strain it will place on our, shall we say, law enforcement agencies. People might react poorly to undesirables being ground up for compost. And they WILL be ground up for compost. Soil fertility is no laughing matter.

>>1336460
What?

What do you think a technocracy is? Where everyone plays buddy-buddy? The intelligent succeed, the skillful succeed, the determined succeed. The lazy bums who do nothing die out.

>>1336328
It won't. Technocracy is doomed to fail from the start. Hope you science worshipping first-world faggots will eventually learn that one day.

>>1336461
Influence. Scientists still control the flow of technology, no matter how those in power want to deny it. An technology is a main factor of modern society, and it wil be more so in the future.

>>1336467
GREAT SOCIAL DARWINISM YOU STUPID FUCKER.

"SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST SHOULD APPLY TO ORGANISED HUMAN SOCIETY" - THIS THREAD + A BUNCH OF FUCKING MORONS

>>1336467
>The intelligent succeed, the skillful succeed, the determined succeed

Must you meet all criteria, or only some?

So, what happens when it's time to decide when to go to war? or if people should be allowed to own guns?

inb4 hurrr technocracy ends wars. will never happen.

>>1336467
A technocracy is just the smarter and more capable people running things. Having free or subsidized healthcare and education is not bloody socialist.
The world is not black and white. it is not divided by lazy bums and the glorious successful scientists.

>>1336471
Here, I have a book you might want to read.

>>1336473
Everything system is social Darwinism you dumbfuck. Those with power, are those who rule. In technocracy, power is intelligence and skillful knowledge. In republics, power is political capital. In military countries, military skill and force is power. And so on and on. Stop being deluded, by your vision of equality bullshit.

>>1336481
I assumed you meant give the bums free health-care and education and such. You put it in the same context. if you didn't mean that, then yes universal health care and education is the norm. From the norm people rise to excellence. And if you are lazy and useless you do the opposite, and go downwards.

>>1336470

Technocracy is not necessarily the crackpot theories of 14 year olds on /sci/. Much of east asia today is effectively technocratic, for instance.

>a bunch of white first world children who haven't worked a day in their lives suggesting a society where the 'bums' are basically exterminated

hahahahahahahhahahahaha oh /sci/ never change.

>>1336485

I don't know if you got the memo, bro, but Social Darwinism isn't real. It's a misnomer and intellectual embarrassment.

>>1336490
This is what I mean.
Bums shouldn't die, but encouraged to be better. If they don't want to, live in squalor. Or move the fuck out if you're not happy.
ALSO NO KILLING.

>>1336497
And trolls will never change either.

>>1336501
Wait wat. If they are already bums and they don't want to do anything. What is the point to encourage them. That is why I meant by killing them. They would just feed off the system, and be generally useless.

>>1336498
Of course, power is all bullshit. This world runs on love amirite?

>>1336485
>social darwinism

the adults are talking now.

An indian street child, who'd you all consider "a bum" does more work in a day than any of you will do in your entire lives. Fuck off to your gated communities, idiots.

>>1336510
Oh no, I can pick rice all day. I'm obviously intellectually inferior to some idiot child. Your flawed egalitarian logic astounds me.

>>1336504
If the system isn't giving them anything, they'll die. that way, the system can wash it's hands of the whole matter and let them kill themselves.

>>1336513
They'll lie on the streets and sleep on benches as they do now. It's not a good image of any society.

>>1336510
If he's working then i don't see how he isn't contributing to society.

>>1336507

"Power" does not equal non-random, differential reproductive success.

In fact, poor people (those without "power") tend to have more children, meaning that evolution is favoring them.

tl;dr you don't understand evolution.

>>1336510
That is called a workforce. The workforce builds and maintains what the intellectual people invent.

ITT wannabe scientists have wet dreams about a society that can't, and won't ever exist.

>>1336520
Obviously, fucking like rabbits, makes you superior. We don't live in the ancient ages anymore, evolution doesn't work as well in our society. We have civilization now.

ITT

TROLLS TROLLS EVERYWHERE

Nigger trolls mind you.

>>1336504
The system wouldn't feed them if they didn't do shit. Therefore no killing. They can kill themselves.
>What is the point to encourage them
Guess what. I was a lazy bum. Not interested in science, politics, computers, and such.

Then I watched Cosmos.

>>1336523
Butthurt useless idiot.

>>1336534
>Guess what. I was a lazy bum. Not interested in science, politics, computers, and such.

>>1336539
And I didn't do any work. Durr.

>>1336510

The Indian street child's case is unfortunate in that his labours do little to improve the lot of society. In a well organised system he'd be educated and put to work at some tasks he could be more productive in.

>>1336526

>Obviously, fucking like rabbits, makes you superior

Genetically, yes. Alleles (genetic variances) are the currency of evolution.

>We don't live in the ancient ages anymore, evolution doesn't work as well in our society. We have civilization now.

Well, speaking evolution is the allelic frequency of a population changing over time, and our civilization is genetically stagnant according to you (in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium) we should go extinct any day now.

Evolution is not affected by technology. Evolution is a population level phenomenon and technology does not alter the phenotype of human beings enough to cause differential reproductive success that was engendered by the technology.

tl;dr you still don't understand evolution.

Okay.

I have many issues, so lets pick one at random:

In this example, this technocracy is in full swing. Automatons do all the labour. Only the elite live. This society you have created will have massive psychological ramifications. This is a society where you work your hardest to prove that you're good enough to be on top. But not everyone can be the best. There has to be one man or woman who is the worst at what they do. They try their hardest, but in this learn-or-die society it just isn't enough. What do you do with them?

>>1336549
>Puts useless big words that have no context
>Attempts to look smart

>>1336555
If they are the lesser of the entire society, it's inevitable that they will be washed away. Progress cannot wait for people.

Futuristic societies utopian societies are or may be as real as zeus or unicorns.

Think about it, if you go back 100-200 years in Europe.

Repression
Rigid class structure
70% of the world still lives below the poverty line.
Manufactured opinion and beliefs.

there is no real difference. i just think the lie is harder to grasp, but there always will be a elite ruling class, operating a totalitarian system, with manufactured consent.

I believe nowadays is even harder to revolt. people are so individualized and so caught up in their own worlds. that a real sense of community doesn't exist anymore.

The future that i foresee is not a fair one. it will be the same as now.

>>1336555
Just putting it out there that I do not agree with this system of 'surivival of the fittest.'

So full of shit.

>>1336558

You saw right through my visage, damn.

You are a real erudite, to call that one.

>>1336555
One person is nothing compared to the vast society. There is no system that will make everyone happy and safe. Unless you want to restrict progress, so that is becomes stagnative.

>>1336568
That's nature broseph. There are those who die, and there are those who succeed. It's how evolution and superiority always worked. No matter how evolved we get, we will still have animalistic instincts. You can suppress, it but in the end it's pointless to.

>>1336567
Of course it will remain the same. Power remains absolute. This system will just work better because of the new age that is coming The technological age.

>>1336576
I don't feel that we should create a new society where it's even more of a dick system than what we have in place.

So you either choose boundless progress, or security where everyone is save with stagnation.

I choose progress.

>>1336576

I hope you know evolution isn't about life span. It's more about fucking the most you can and leaving as many children to have children as possible.

Being a hard worker to live longer isn't evolution in action.

>>1336563
Then, over time, as technology becomes more and more advanced the standards would be raised. People would buckle under the pressure. Japan can be seen as having similar requirements from their young, except in this case far more overbearing requirements. In Japan, suicide is a big problem. They don't kill themselves because they have no ambitions or potential, but because they are kept to impossible standards. How will this issue be resolved?

>>1336549
>>1336549
lol troll harder.

>>1336583
Hah, you may think it's not how it works now, but it is. Power is all that is important in this world. Political power, influential power, wealth, etc. It does not matter how badly you rage against it, and how much you cry. Power is absolute.

>>1336576
>You can suppress, it but in the end it's pointless t
keep wiping your ass with your hand then

>>1336591

Great rejoinder, bro.

>>1336590

Keep the pressure at Japan's level for a few generations. The suicide gene will work it's way out of the genome. Then as suicides decline, raise the pressure a bit.

It's an almost impossible issue to resolve. Progress must continue or we will simply stagnate as a species. Is a few lives worth the eventual continuations of our species? Even 99% of all life on earth is worth it, as some still survive. I think from a neutral viewpoint, so you may not like it, /shrug

>>1336596
Obviously animalistic instincts from our way way way ancestors ago, means we have to wipe our ass with our hands? Retarded trolls.

>>1336598

>implying suicide is genetic and not cultural.

>>1336593
I will not help create a society where it's basically BE EXACTLY THE HARD WORKER WE THINK YOU NEED TO BE OR WE'LL KILL YOU OR GET THE FUCK OUT. I want to help a society for the smart, the creative, to flourish, to lead humanity into a new era of shinyness.

I think /sci/ needs to read The Revolt of the Masses.

>>1336607

>Implying the propensity to crack under the pressure and kill yourself is not genetic.

>>1336609

methinks /sci/ should raise the posting age to 20 so high schoolfags and first/second year undergradfags aren't allowed in.

>>1336608
The best will always succeed, now matter what you do. If you want to make an age of shiny unicorn love, you will fail. Even if we all start at the same level, there will always be the elite. The whole who are better then the rest... what do you propose we dumb them down so they will fit the rest better? No they should continue to rise, and bring the rest of society with them. Those who cannot continue on, die out, and those who do create more intelligent and stronger entities. This is how life works, if you don't like it. Cry to the ceiling or something, /shrug.

>>1336615

>implying natural selection would select for a gene that causes the immediate loss of reproduction.

technology wont make us free or happier.

technology will be used against us. to make us believe we are free and "happy".

>>1336589
May I interject? I will say that evolution for humans is slightly different now that we have other methods to expand our lineage. One example, fascist states. The ruler in charge has guaranteed, at least in his mind, that his gene will live on. Not only that, but like-minded peoples will follow in turn. He is effectively extending his liniage, not only through his children but through all his followers that wholeheartedly support him. That seems like a more efficient (if evil) way than fucking all day, every day.

>>1336623
>implying natural selection can be proposed to our current civilization.

holy shit everyone is soo retarded.

you know sociology and anthropology? yeah that "science" you always make fun of it.. you should read some authors about it, because GOD DAMN every post is stupid.

>>1336620
wait...are you insinuating that i am included in that group, or are you commenting on the rest of the people in here?

>>1336621
What I mean is that no active enforcement of BE THE BEST OR FUCK YOU should be implemented. If The people don't work, then they get pretty much no money, and eventually just fade out, either dying, moving out, or actually doing some work. I don't want fucking Rapture.

>>1336623

>Implying natural selection cares about qualities that are not directly related to survival in the current environment, but would only be advantageous in some hypothetical future technocracy

>>1336589
We aren't animals anymore. We have civilization Evolution works completely differently.

>>1336628

Evolution takes place at the population level and the acts of one individual are irrelevant.

Evolution works with how common alleles are in the gene pool. Thousands of people, only having one child, will spread a gene faster than one ruler having 100 children in his life while everyone else is restricted to one.

>>1336633
When did I say you have to kill them? I'm not the person who was talking to your earlier. What I am saying is that, those who are superior must pull society ahead, and those who can't keep up would be left behind. Did I say you have to slaughter them? No. They'll either die or keep up. Helping them out is pointless.

>>1336636

That's cool. Pic related-- it's a mirror.

>>1336644
>I have nothing relevant to say.

>>1336598
This seems rather ridiculous. Social pressure will always have the same effect on people as long as emphasis is kept on ultimate success.

>>1336646

Keep trolling, bro, I think you're making ground.

>>1336642
I'm fine with this as long as there is subsidized healthcare and free education up to university, which is then subsidized.

All I'm asking for is near-equal opportunities.

>>1336655
I mentioned earlier everyone starts on the relatively same location. How they progress from there is up to them, and should always be up to them. If one get's help, the system flips out of balance.

>>1336658
Sounds good.

As long as I have my place in one of the greenhouses taking care of growing food and smoking weed, I'm fine.

>>1336652

1. Do you believe all people are equally susceptible to social pressure?
2. Do you believe all people will be equally pressured by a given difficulty of education, what have you?

>>1336662
An interesting profession, but it does provide god sustenance. Though not sure about the weed lol...

As for myself, I'm more interested in mathematics and the applied applications of it.

>>1336667
Oh I'm sure there'll be a demand for marijuana. I'm also sure there will be one or two guys tending to the cannabis greenhouse.

>>1336678
Precise use of marijuana does have some benefits, though most people abuse it too much.

>>1336638
True, if were talking about animals. Animals don't have ideals and opinions. People do. So, rather than creating children through sex and ensure your lineage you can change what others believe to suit your tastes. Then they will pass along the beliefs to those around them and after them. It fulfils the need to pass on your line because you ensure the safety of the species. If everyone thinks the same way as me, there will be less killing.

But, what do I know?

There was definitively quite a lot of trolls in the thread. Is most of /sci/ asleep or such, as technocracy is /sci/'s wet dream.

>>1336691
There are always trolls on 4chan, best to simply ignore them when having a genuine conversation.

>>1336691
The original OP went to bed.

>>1336663
Well, no. People do handle pressure differently. But do those who handle pressure the best also have the highest intelligence?

>>1336695
He abandoned the mission!

Blasphemy!

>>1336686

>True, if were talking about animals. Animals don't have ideals and opinions. People do.

Humans are animals. protip: look at our kingdom

So, rather than creating children through sex and ensure your lineage you can change what others believe to suit your tastes. Then they will pass along the beliefs to those around them and after them. It fulfils the need to pass on your line because you ensure the safety of the species. If everyone thinks the same way as me, there will be less killing.

But, what do I know?

>Reproduction is required for evolution.

>Evolution doesn't work that way.

Off to bed men, this will be brainstormed more tomorrow. Too much trolls to have a genuine conversation tonight sadly.

>>1336686

>True, if were talking about animals. Animals don't have ideals and opinions. People do.

Humans are animals. protip: look at our kingdom

>So, rather than creating children through sex and ensure your lineage you can change what others believe to suit your tastes. Then they will pass along the beliefs to those around them and after them. It fulfils the need to pass on your line because you ensure the safety of the species. If everyone thinks the same way as me, there will be less killing.

>But, what do I know?

Reproduction is required for evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L640vc_XBjk&feature=player_embedded

And people wonder why I am a technocrat.

>>1336696

Those with the highest intelligence presumably would not be particularly stressed given the workload.

>>1336715

This is nonsense.

Honestly, do you think there is an inverse correlation between intelligence and the ability to be stressed?

>>1336709
Your first point is ridiculous. Yes humans are animals, and yes we do have ideals and opinions. The other animals do not.

>>1336700
Humans are animals. They are not on the same level as animals. We reason, we seek knowledge, we do things that won't ensure our lineage extending. We are not above evolution. We can achieve those ends in ways other than animals.

If I'm so wrong, than will you enlighten me? Simply saying I'm wrong will not accomplish anything.

>>1336720

I think having to study 20 hours for an exam would be more stressful than being able to waltz in after a night of fapping and do as well.

>>1336715
Why do you believe in smart people working with no stress if it's just a theory (a guess)?

>>1336713
That video... not cool. Now those people should be thrown in a dumpster, no going back from such ignorance.

>>1336727
Everyone has stress, intelligent humans have more stress because they usually do more arduous work. Not always, but usually.

>>1336713
weer diffirint skeen

Fuck I lol'd

>>1336730
What I believe is that we should eliminate stress where not necessary.

>>1336734
I dunno... stress can be useful. When I work on an interesting project, I still feel stress. Even if it is fun and interesting, I just generally want to do good quality work.

>>1336723

Way to use the colloquial definition of animals. On /sci/ I thought scientific terms would apply.

Human beings are animals. We are not "above" them in any way biologically. We can think more and build things. Doesn't mean shit biologically speaking. We are not the most numerous organism biomass or numbers wise.

And just a protip, other animals can reason, too. They have memory and cognition.

>>1336740
That's what I mean. It's fine in those types of environments, but when someone basically says 'Do this or we cut off your electricity' or some shit like that.... It just shouldn't happen. This society should make relieving stress and making humans happy a priority, on top of scientific research and amazing shit.

>>1336765
Well happiness is subjective really, it differs from a person to another. I prefer curiosity as it is emotionless and still epic. Though some people would be happy hunting other humans...

>>1336775
I mean being able to create for yourself your happiness, your castle, just as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone's else's view of happiness.

Yeah, I liked reading Manna.

>>1336715
on the contrary, some with higher than average intelligence may be under more pressure, due to several factors.

>>1336746
I'm afraid I can't use scientific terms for everything. I will try to present myself more clearly.

I realise that we are governed by the same rules as far as biology is concerned, but what of the parts we dont know? We don't know why we are sentient, that doesn't mean we ignore it. I'm just trying to apply what we know from evolution and what I observe in people.

Evolution requires reproduction. Yes, I know that. I'm saying that there are ways we reproduce and ensure reproduction that are more complex than animals.

>>1336787

Really? Last time I checked we go for the ol' penis in vagina approach, which isn't dissimilar to any other mammal...

Okay, let me try to be clear as possible. Reproduction can be achieved the direct approach and it could be said that when you get people to follow your beliefs you are assuring the continuation of the species through reduction of conflict. This is NOT a rule of evolution. It is simply my take on how humans are able to achieve their inborn desire to extend and protect the species. This however does NOT have any sway on natural selection, and I am not claiming such.

>>1336848
> it could be said that when you get people to follow your beliefs you are assuring the continuation of the species through reduction of conflict. This is NOT a rule of evolution.

I think I see where you're coming from, but I still wouldn't agree. Social behaviour is defined by psychological characteristics which are themselves defined by physiological characteristics; it is therefore the case that social/psychological behaviour which better ensures gene propagation IS a product of evolution, albeit an indirect and complex one.

There are other species within the great ape family, for example, which demonstrate social rituals - individuals within a group will trade and share and assist one another. These individuals/groups are more likely to be selected for.