/sci/ - Science & Math

sounds gay

Wait, this is boring Hippie shit. I thought I was about to read a plan to terraform Venus.

Sounds good bro.
Try reading Manna yet? Similar idea.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

Something like this?
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sam_harris_science_can_show_what_s_right.html

venus project would need a post scarcity economy to work

The pipe dream of naive utopian idealists.

>>1306471
So, robots?
>>1306477
>utopian
Dude. Even the Jacque Fresco guy said it's nowhere near a utopia or perfect thing.
"It's just a lot better, than what we have."

>>1306425
>>1306426
>>1306471
>>1306477
>didn't read or comprehend the suggested questions

Got my money on stand by to help pitch in when they start building a city.

>>1306524
no fucking shit. venus project is from zeitgeist and each answer is the fucking length of an essay.

>>1306540
Oh, this is that stupid Zeitgeist shit again?

Resource based economy as described by the Venus Project:
>It is a system in which all goods and services are available to everyone without the use of money, credits, barter, or any other form of debt or servitude.

Nigga you just went full retard.

>>1306556
>its related to zeitgeist
>it must be stupid!

The guy that was doing Zeitgeist also breathed air. I guess you better stop doing that too.

bullshit, and potentially quite dangerous.

>>1306560
If you're thinking 'OH NO NO ONE WILL WORK' they plan to make that not a problem by automating all systems for making shit.

>>1306560
Indeed, it's a nice idea but how does it work?

Protip: it doesn't

>>1306524

Sorry, I have plans next month and I can't spend all week reading these essays.

>>1306568
yeah, a post-scarcity economy, which does not exist.

>>1306568
So, currently, it isn't feasible at all.

>>1306578
....Yeah.

Robots plz.

Oh god not this again

>>1306585
It would work in small scale. One has to start from a single city and even as it expands there are no resources for the whole populace of our planet (which means most people will simply die off).

Discussing it here is like discussing string theory. It's automatically bullshit because people are not familiar with it.

>>1306585
Robots aren't a magic pill that can make this happen. Why is t you fags are divided between misanthropes who don't think humans will make it to the end of the century and morons who think the worlds problems can be solved but 'the man and his money' is conspiring against everyone living happily.

>>1306641

neckbeards

fuck yeah, it's 1957 again!!!

This sounds like the idea of a naive teenager who has never taken an economics course.

>dropped out of school at age 14

well there you go.

>>1306641
>Robots aren't a magic pill that can make this happen
Are you sure?

The ironic thing about this is the same people who make threads about everyone else being stupid think this is a workable idea.

>>1306695
[Citation needed]

Whatever fucktards when I'm living in the utopia that me and my transhumanist friends crafted with our own determination and you're living in some fucking corporate arcology we'll see who has the last laugh

IT’S 8 a.m., Tuesday, Nov. 18, 2008, and you are headed for a business appointment 300 mi. away. You slide into your sleek, two-passenger air-cushion car, press a sequence of buttons and the national traffic computer notes your destination, figures out the current traffic situation and signals your car to slide out of the garage. Hands free, you sit back and begin to read the morning paper which is flashed on a flat TV screen over the car’s dashboard. Tapping a button changes the page.

>>1306701
Not op, but I second this.

>>1306701
Resource-based economy master race, brofist.

it's not the best idea, but it's a different one. we desperatly need to rid ourselves of the shackles of capitalism, of democracy. you know it's near impossible to start your own country? even if you discover some shit island somewhere, if it's within TWO HUNDRED nauticle miles of another county, they automatically can lay claim to it. we're all trapped in the system.

How comes so many people on here are so narrow minded? I thought scientists and mathematicians were meant to be open to ideas and that anything is possible.... That is how you solve things by the way.

Don't you think our system of living needs to change? Dont you realize how corrupt our government is? (I say our, coz pretty much every government is corrupt, thanks to America and its buying power). You should watch some of Jacque Fresco's videos, he really is a smart man.

Hey if they seriously start going for it I have no issues picking up and coming down there to help out. Money free society sounds like a fucking paradise.

>>1306706
The advancement of technology won't make people lazy though; it's their own mindset that will.

>>1306716
Fucking this. If shit starts really happening, I'm going down and helping. And I know of a fair few friends that would come with me too.

>>1306692
I'm sure that you're an idiot. I'm not sure if it's because you're young or stupid.

>>1306725
I love your argument. Okay, I'm an idiot. Now, where's the argument?

It's a club run by pathetic autistics that can't tell the difference between science fiction and reality

>>1306713
>I learned things like this and I can't tolerate it when things change, because that means extra work for me and I've been told work is always unpleasant.
Go suggest your professors a different notation for integrals. I've tried it and they've all turned me down even though it had more advantages than the current approach (and it would've been <span class="math">an alternative[/spoiler], not a replacement).

>>1306731
Please don't turn this into a troll war even though I laughed at your argument.

>>1306745

People have more time for leisure activities in the year 2008. The average work day is about four hours. But the extra time isn't totally free. The pace of technical advancement is such that a certain amount of jobholder's spare time is used in keeping up with the new developments -- on the average, about two hours of home study a day.

>>1306754

Absolute bullshit. I hope all you faggots donated to his retirement fund, morons.

>>1306771
>My girlfriend broke up with me I don't trust anyone now

>>1306405
>implying you can eliminate greed
>implying natural leaders won't take power and money

>>1306435
Well, that was a good talk (as TED goes); something all moral philosophers should consider before spewing out ignorant black-and-white arguments.

No need to worry about failing memory or intelligence either. The intelligence pill is another 21st century commodity. Slow learners or people struck with forgetfulness are given pills which increase the production of enzymes controlling production of the chemicals known to control learning and memory. Everyone is able to use his full mental potential.

>>1306796
>implying you can eliminate greed
Well, if one has pretty much everything without any real chance of it being taken away....
>implying natural leaders won't take power and money
>implying you can have a stupid amount of power without money

>>1306811
The funny thing is the "Intelligence pill" will be a reality sooner or later, we know its possible.

I'm a transhumanist, and I think this is a stupid idea.

>>1306819
>implying ritalin and adderall isn't already given to morons

>>1306829
Becauuuuuuuse?

Some of this is interesting, yet most of it is total fucking bullshit that will never work.

Wasted man hours put into this, don't try to change the world outright, that won't do a thing.. Try to work around the bullshit.

>>1306844
>Try to work around the bullshit.
Not working.
>don't try to change the world outright
>won't do a thing
wat?

>>1306844
Two words: closed community. At least to begin with.

>>1306854
Well take this guys answer to question 65, the guy is clearly insane and has no real grasp on how people act.

>>1306860
I dunno, sounds like 90% of /sci/.

>>1306854
People have free wills. If someone could go "Hey fucktards, stop going after all the money and all work for the benifit of mankind" and have it WORK, it would of been done already.

Also, provide people a city with no money issues, home issues etc etc.. And a lot of them will still prefer to stay at home watching the footie then go out and work.

Thus, the idea of a sci-fi like city of the future is stupid.

>What about drug addict and achoholics?
>They can be educated out of the need for requiring artificial stimulants. Life would be much more interesting, exciting and always evolving.

GUYS SHUT UP, THIS MAN IS A GENIOUS, ALL WE NEEDED TO DO WAS TELL THEM NOT TO DO DRUGS.

wow mang this guy is da future im gonna tell my facebook budz.

>>1306868
>People have free wills. If someone could go "Hey fucktards, stop going after all the money and all work for the benifit of mankind" and have it WORK, it would of been done already.
Well it always fell apart because there was not enough money going into it. The biggest of these projects only involve about 4,000 people.
>Also, provide people a city with no money issues, home issues etc etc.. And a lot of them will still prefer to stay at home watching the footie then go out and work.
No. Nothing like that has ever been done. If it was shown to the world to work and work well, it would be like a firestorm.

>>1306865
/sci/ = The entire population of the world.
Durp.

>>1306877
He's saying rehab, basically. Besides a lot of people abuse drugs because they're in a shitty position in life at the moment.

>>1306837
Not everyone can live forever and have neural implants; only those who have been productive enough to afford them.

>>1306860
>>1306865
While I'm all for this idea (being op and all) I agree that his reply to that question is quite stupid. It's unlikely everyone will have the same interests, but there will no doubt be other useful ways to participating.

>>1306886
/sci/ - 0.5% of the scientific community, if even that.

And /sci/ isn't that small. Just these faggots only lurk.

THIS JUST IN

Most people are fucking retards who don't want to have anything to do with a better world, they'd rather just stuff their faces with fast food, push out a couple of bratts before dieing.

This idea would never work, maybe for a few 1000s people interested in such a life, but something as big as a city? lolno.

>>1306860
>>1306868

Don't you think that highly dependent on their upbringing? If you was brought up to concentrate on technology and problem solving and the like, then people wouldnt just concentrate on getting money

Well it may not be possible for society but I might set this up for myself. Home full of self replicating robots all serving me, why not?

How will this society protect itself from less scrupulous societies?

>>1306904
Oh u. I would say a small city of about ~200,000 would be possible

>>1306912
By offering the other societies to do the very same thing so they can have the same lifestyle.

From question 105:
>When you pet a dog you don’t just pet the balls--you stroke the entire dog.
I lol'd heartily.

>>1306904
About 33000 people have already signed the petition to participate. I'd say it's good enough a start and others will follow if it turns out to be a good idea.

>>1306909
Short of stealing a bunch of children to start their city off, the people would need to be pushed out of current peoples kid holes.

Parents that want their children to have free will, because that is what they had.

The only way this would work is if the person in question doesn't know any better. E.g Most terrible fucking places in the world, like women in the middle east suddenly finding out that women can be more then cum dumpsters dressed in black.

>>1306909
Requesting the article of the woman who successfully raised her daughter to be a world champion chess player.

ITT: Asspained trolls and people who watched Zeitgeist for the first time. Sup /Summer/

>>1306939
Sup Asspained troll

>no comments about suggested naturalism (nudity)
/sci/, I'm disappoint.

>>1306833
Ritalin and Adderall don't make you smarter in any way, they simply help you focus. Pills to actually boost intelligence would be...

>>1306967
See:
>>1306926

>>1306969
...bogged with side-effects.

Finished that sentence for you.

Scarcity still exists.

There is no way to automate everything. Even if you could, it would require a stupid amount of capital to buy specific machinery for rarely needed tasks.

A Venus Project would have to trade with the world, which means that it would have to export goods at a price. Since money does not exist in the Venus Project anyone could take all the inventory and the commune is fucked.

The only way for this to work is after nanotechnology and presumably the Singularity. Put your efforts into those tangible fields instead of this venus bullshit.

>>1306974
>it would require a stupid amount of capital to buy specific machinery
Well yeah, that's why they're saying fuck money.
>A Venus Project would have to trade with the world
>have to
Actually it focuses on being self-sufficient.

>>1306405
You should've also listed question 36.
>Technically [technologically] The Venus Project is feasible today.

>>1306992
highly advanced machinery isnt free you fool.

and a venus project can't be self-sustainable while giving away everything for free. it would need a steady inflow of materials to be constantly making enough for everyone.

>>1307026
I like how they spend pages discussing stupid shit in mind numbing detail, but the most important section on feasibility gets one sentence.

Venus Project is a joke.

>>1307039
>Giving things away for free
>implying those things would be given outside of the actual project

Besides, if that isn't a sufficient answer for you, then something like lets say, China, gives us one ton of every element needed to make computers. Then we could have the factories make computers out of those materials and send them back to China. No money involved.

This plan is excellent in idea and concept, but one could say that about communism. With actual execution, I can imagine it failing or being flawed, seeing as humans are inherently flawed anyway. I liked the story "Utopia," but even I know its just a fairytale

The Venus project is simply about making an extremely efficient city.

SO wait...this guy wants to impliment an economy using the earth's resources for these communities. Let's have a hypothetical here and say that several of these cities around the globe have popped up and are increasingly expanding as the older models of capitalism, democracy, socialism, communism, etc are on its way out....how is this model not promoting war waged on the premise of wanting resources on those still left out of the loop and those within the global-based economy communities?? I think I'm missing something here....

>>1306974
Why can't everything be automated?
>>1307039
Highly advanced machinery isn't free, it cost matter and energy to make. Make the highly advanced machinery capable of automatically transforming matter and energy into advanced machinery and use your advanced machinery to turn out advanced machinery.

TL;DR version: make self replicating robot factories and take advantage of exponentials

>Live in the Venus city
>Want to buy an [item]
>It doesn't make any [item]
>Need buy one from the FORBIDDEN LANDS
>Outside world wants money for the [item]
>Have no money :(
This.

>>1307153
>Live in the Venus city
>Want to buy an [item]
>It doesn't make any [item]
>Propose manufacturing [item]
>Have dedicated people work on the optimal design and production of [item] with you
>Receive [item]
This, hopefully.

>>1307153
Name one item that would be pretty much impossible to make in a self-sustaining city. There are many up-and-coming flexible manufacturing processes out there that enable one machine to make a wide variety of products.

Also trade ain't going away, the difference is in place of money one could trade resources for other resources(IE lithium for neodymium).

>>1307166
Holy fuck you're an idiot.

>>1307176
A video game console. That plays Mario.

>>1307166
>Nobody wants [item]
>No one works on [item]
>Everyone too lazy
>Still no [item]. =^(

>>1307185
lol make the item urself stupid lol ppl sure r stupid huh guys vince project look so koool

>>1307185
Imagine if you had a... let's call it a rapid prototyper

and it can make any item you want, so long as you design it.

We could have one in every home and all they would require is an input of energy and resources and schematics.

>>1307176

Anything that requires a mineral not found within the confines of that city.

>>1307215
3D CAD printers already exist, bro.

>>1307215
That's fucking retarded.
Why would you even think that would work? People wouldn't even have to learn how to do anything. We would have no jobs, nothing. People would get bored and turn to crime. Why crime? Because crime would be the last great adventure. Living in perfection would drive most insane. You would have nothing to do. Sure, you could pretend to work but it wouldn't mean anything. People wouldn't even know how to make a blueprint of something. This plan will never work.

>>1307185

You mean, your too lazy too make it yourself?

>>1307236
I don't know how to make it.

>>1307236
Or I don't need the item, I just want it.
Because there is no need, I just won't make it.

>>1307215
This seems to turn into a trollfest, so I'm (op) out of here. Have a nice evening.

>>1307166
takes too long, too inefficent


I'm all up for this project, however it expects people to be perfect. We just aren't that's the way it is.
>>1307215
read again what you just wrote... think for a while... realize it's retarded

stupid.

we don't have as many resources as they say

That world would be way worse then what we have right now.


I think the people that want something like this are either incredibly naive or children.

It kinda same with every fantasy world, if you consider everything its likely worse then what we have right now. It ignores basic human motivation.

Cracked for the lulz:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18475_6-horrifying-implications-awesome-fantasy-movie-universes.html

>>1307264
sounds like the concept of atlantis a fairytale society that got crushed by its own greatness, serves them right

>>1307264
lol, no it's not.

I guess you've never heard of or seen these things in action. They mostly work with plastic right now, but it's a new field and nanomanufacturing is going to be a big part of it.

inb4 Jacques changes his name to Stalin and murders half his followers

>>1306405
pretty cool
But it reminds me somehow about the Fallout series

"Commerce is the route of civic virtue."

by someone smarter then OPs link

>>1307325
More like takes donations and disappears

>>1307246
You posted too early in the day, picked up too many newfriends.

Also how do we make the transition to the Venus Project. Fresco doesn't elaborate very well on how he will accomplish it.

Even if this city were a gated community without scarcity and the technology existed for their robot slaves and everyone agreed to abide by the principles of it. sooner or later a psyhcopath would be born and take advantage. Utopias can't exist until they are ready to kill born psyhcopaths, but a utopia doesn't kill it's members /thread

>>1307365
>Fallout
What? It's nothing even beginning to resemble the Fallout universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brink_%28video_game%29

>>1307711
then put measures in place to guard against psychopaths! Otherwise the system is unstable and will eventually fall down.

>>1307711
that's the dumbest scenerio i've read

>We could easily create a world of abundance for all, free of servitude and debt based on the carrying capacity of the earth´s resources.

ya or we could have the western world living a life of luxury, while we continue to exploit the third world scum.

>>1308995
>>missing the point

Sounds like I want in on that.