/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12787133
wow epic thread, this is so much better than faggot OP's last thread haha you're way better than him, OP

>>12787133
"Successful"

>>12787137
PARDON ME

>>12787133
What will SN15 look like?

>>12787133
>RUDs AFTER landing
Kneel before SLS.

I want Starship to work just because it's big and reusable. It was such a kick in the balls going from this back to capsules.

Poor Marcus

>>12787165
you have to get past the static fire to be in the club SLS

>>12787165
>nearly RUDs during static fire

>>12787171
That is all trash. moving away from the Saturn V was a mistake

>>12787168
This looks fake

>>12787176
>>12787180
The US gov't doesn't want to have explosions on the pad. That's the difference between NASA and SpaceX. What good is all the "iterative design" rhetoric when the results are so spectacularly explosive..

>>12787185
Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

>>12787153
>DO A BACKFLIP FAGGOT

>>12787165
Isn't that exactly what SLS does? Smash into the ocean?

>>12787199
Yes but that's "scheduled".

>>12787165
>SLS engine slightly exceeds conservative parameters
>test scrubbed for months
>Starship engine slightly exceeds parameters
>"Yeah we just disabled that shit and tested successfully two hours later."

goodnight bros. What a great day. At least there's some hope in this future.

>>12787165
>inb4

>>12787204
Elon should tank/detank SN7.3 five times in a row to mock the orangetankbad.

>>12787168
Has anyone counted the pixels and figured out how high it bounced?

>>12787201
>yes we do throw away 2 billion dollars on every launch
>it's part of the cheaper design

>>12787185
You look fake.

>>12787212
Looks like 2-3 meters from just looking at SN7.2 with one eye and SN10 with the other. They touched down at probably 10-15 MPH.

>>12787215
Do you want to go to the moon?

>>12787187
>That's the difference between NASA and SpaceX
No that is the difference between modern NASA and SpaceX. The rapid pace with prototypes and testing to failure is much better than the overengineering at NASA. IRL tests are always better than hypotheticals.

>>12787232
Honestly starship will go to the moon far more than SLS can ever wish to go

>>12787232
Only Starship answers a question like that with "Yes" these days. Only instead of the Moon it's Mars.

Anons, which are the possible scenarios now?
How would you rate the success of the entire operation?

>>12787256
Speaking of which, Casey was ready for SN10's success it seems kek
https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2021/03/04/sls-what-now/

>>12787188
What was it that caught fire anyway? Burned quite heavily. Are the vents methane? Did one of the trivents catch fire? I always thought that was Oxygen.

>>12787175
His vids werr OK but he's stuffing them full of ads now. It's annoying

>>12787258
The operation was a success, but the patient died

>>12787232
Just replace the RS-25s with Falcon 9s.

>>12787258
Starships will continue to blow up after landing due to their inadequate legs, but SpaceX won't finish the leg design until they actually do some orbital tests.

>>12787260
This is true. The big players are acting like SS doesn't exist.

>>12787307
And this is another good point about how Starship changes the game. In a world where a single launch can ship 100+T to Mars, should NASA be aiming for many cheaper instruments instead?

>>12786595

Likely related to throttling. One of the engines had orange plume on ascent before shutdown and it was less bright.

>>12787315
It will be another 4 years before they have enough plutonium to even fuel another Perseverance :(

Gotta be honest never really bought into the Musk meme but seeing this thing change facing in real time was pretty fucking incredible.

>>12787358
If they can land hundreds then they don't need nuclear.

>>12787363
Space is not that easy.

For one the existing administrative and scientific capacity is likely unable to take the load of managing more rovers.

Space is hard.

>>12787368
Soon every university will have their own rover

>>12787358
What are some good alternative energy generation methods if weight is less of an issue.

>>12787275
Ruptured methane line from the header tank, probably. It landed heavily and the elonrons almost touched the ground. Who knows what ripped then but it probably wasn't oxygen at least until the big kaboom because oxygen doesn't burn.

>>12787368
>Space is hard.
okay reddit
>>12787368
>For one the existing administrative and scientific capacity is likely unable to take the load of managing more rovers.
They'll have plenty of incentive after the programs like the SLS get canned

>>12787187
Sure, politically NASA can't bear that heat.

>>12787372
Space is easy.

>>12787372
But that will devalue scientific papers and harm scientists.

>>12787368
>For one the existing administrative and scientific capacity is likely unable to take the load of managing more rovers
Plenty of work for NASA in deep space comms and supporting software on/off earth to capitalise on the deluge of data that's coming

>>12787384
I don't give a fuck. Let even womyn studies have one.

>gut NASA and bind it in red tape
>"NASA just can't make space travel viable ;^) guess we have to trust the free market"

>>12787373
Fission reactors.

>>12787394
>fill up NASA with diversity hires instead of literal Nazis
>abruptly fail to ever design another good rocket again

>>12787153
wow...embarrassing

>>12787260
Based Casey always delivers

>>12787394
I mean, NASA did get gutted compared to its former budget, but it's still a bigger budget than SpaceX. NASA hands out payouts like candy.

>>12787384
Fuck scientists

Will Mercury ever be of use in the future?

>>12787165
Sorry, no renders allowed

>>12787260
>SLS is nearly finished, or so they say. Since we have it, why not launch it? In my opinion, we should ship the hardware to the cape, lay it flat next to Atlantis, and throw a shed over it. It can serve as a memorial for the lost half century and a warning to future generations of designers who think they are ready to write the final word on rockets. “Everyone knows what’s wrong with these rockets. Do you think you are better than their designers?”
BASED

>>12787315
>And this is another good point about how Starship changes the game
It doesn't, because it doesn't work.
>In a world where a single launch can ship 100+T to Mars
There is no such ship.
>should NASA be aiming for many cheaper instruments instead?
Yes indeed it should, because we're never going to Mars.

>>12787480
go be a nigger somewhere else

>>12787412
your mother is an embarrassment

>>12787492
no your mother, but i fucks her anway

>>12787450
Based.

>>12787256
Moon mars and asteroids all require the same launch vehicle, so this switching program shit is nonsense
Orion is simply a piece of shit and for whatever reason NASA wildly overpays for in space vehicles

If the SLS cost the same as the shuttle and launched more often, while not being a decade behind schedule, it would be just fine.
At least in their eyes

>>12787165

First, you need to use a real image of SLS AHAHAHAHHA

>>12787394
>government workers blames red tape while 90% of it has been imposed by their own organization and never once have they publicly disagreed with certain policies

so tired of you sls haters. starship blew up yet again. spacex = bankrupt, you would know when tf00t destroys you again in his next video. brace for impact i expect u will be crying yet again screaming strawman

why don't they (NASA) just build a Saturn V?

Whats the problem with all the NASA scientists just moving to SpaceX?

>>12787551
They wanted to. Congress told them to fuck off because they needed to keep shuttlestack jobs around. Think Shelby effect multiplied by about 200.

>>12787552
There isn't one, because none of them are doing that.

>>12787482
>waaaaaah let me dream
It's time to wake up, anon.

>>12787575
>ook ook ook ook ook

>>12787375
Every organic compound liquid oxygen touches can spontaneously combust. We had a liquid oxygen tank spill, it splashed all over the parkinglot tarmac, seeped in, and then the tarmac exploded and was on fire, dood, lox is a bitch

Will the booster look like a big cone of ice

>>12787187
what good is taking 10 years and half an apollo program to develop something that if everything goes well, will end up costing A FULL apollo program when its done and will offer no advantage over a saturn V, and will be finished in like 10 years, and STILL doesnt work...

>>12787551
>why yes we can remake a 50 year old program, just pay us 100 billion dollars
>or we can do the cheap way, keep legacy shuttle hardware and quickly produce a heavy lift rocket

You think congress people understand rockets? They go to NASA for advice and NASA got what they asked for

>>12787188
rocketry is high school physics, and the easiest stuff you see in high school, like you have to be a special kind of retard to believe theres anyhting magic about this

>>12787375
>oxygen doesn't burn
pure oxygen is literally one of the worst fire hazards there is, it doesn't even rank as highly flamable, its its own category, thats how flamable it is

>>12787165
I kneel before this untested, unflown, transitional test article.

>>12787606
>it doesn't even rank as highly flamable
Because it's not flammable. Oxygen doesn't burn, you absolute fucking moron. It is needed for other things to burn.

>>12787606
>i don't understand high school level chemics
oxygen still doesn't burn. it burns other things

>>12787375
It caught fire when it went from 3 to 1 engines still in the air. It wasn't impact damage.

uhhhh

>>12787614
you absoulte stupidly retardedly 100% inferior to me if intelligence were on a scale from -100 to 100 id be 2183494092183894023821080932189021380923189018901239802138902138901921809132890 and youd be -123980123890213890213890213890129312031290321

if a girl had to choose between me and you shed give her liver to be with me for one minute and would rather died by a torture applied by the world most renowed torture sepcialist that lasted 5 years rather than spending one picosecond with you, shed need a world renowed team of psychologists just to get over the fact that being near you was ever gonna be a reality

the presence of pure oxygen dramatically increases the possibility of a fire, if you want to talk about the technical definition of flamability i could destroy your ass one handedly, but id have to charge you for the free physics lesson by a person so superior to you that you cant even fathom it, like, you live a shitty life and wil die a loser, and its hilarious cause for this second now you are having contact with the tops worlds toppest elite of intelectuality, the mastermind superior 123489012389012093 iq haver, and its now, i will close this tab in a while and youll never have contact with such asuperior human ever again, welcome to the rest of your life loser idioty boi

>>12787626
10/10, saving

>>12787232
Yeah, this is why Starship is being built.

>>12787626
Boiiii this smells fresh.

>>12787626
based supremacy enjoyer

>>12787165
>>RUDs AFTER landing
>Kneel before SLS.
confirmed for RUD during static fire

>>12787165
>Exceeds parameters
>Hides for two months and running
No you kneel

>>12787165
it looks so pretty

>>12787666
based Satan
>meanwhile SN10 exceeds parameters
>"no, it is the parameters who are wrong"
>proceeds to fly, land, and explode a few hours later
untouchable

Will Starship have enough deltaV to go to Mars, land and return with just two stages?

>>12787671
soiboy spacex sissies set parameters too low

could you imagine the blast of a fully fueled superheavy

>>12787618
>It caught fire when it went from 3 to 1 engines still in the air. It wasn't impact damage.

>Steel rocket
>Catches fire
It was excess methane burning off, it has happened before (SN8 ascent). The fire after landing was from impact damage, fuel lines were cracked.

So why were flames different colour during ascent?

>>12787315
>should NASA be aiming for many cheaper instruments instead?
But what would be the science case for many small missions? The science division is driven by scientific questions, not by appeals to industrial efficiency. If you build 1000 rovers, is the 1000th rover going to tell you something significant that the 999 previous missions didn't? No. There are diminishing returns for any replicated project. Without a solid science case for mass production you will really just end up with money for 1, 2 or zero rovers. It doesn't matter if the unit cost is much higher, because the program cost will be lower than if you built 1000. And instead of spamming Mars with the same instruments the Planetary division can study Neptune and Titan, instead of waiting another 20 years,

>>12787693
Slightly different fuel mix maybe? Engine is a prototype too.

>>12787358
really? Why the slow rate?

>>12787674
Nope. It needs refuelling in Earth orbit, and it needs refuelling on Mars to come back.

>>12787698
you're making the mistake of assuming that even 1000 rovers (or more realistically, a couple dozen or hundred) would begin to answer every question we have about mars.

>>12787704
because there is not much need for the specific isotope and not big enough facilities to produce it because nuclear weapons bad mkay.

>>12787168
Just realised that thing is as big as the shuttles external tank. Amazing

>>12787718
No I'm not. There will obviously be countless questions that cannot be answered with those rovers. But there are only so many questions you can answer with one instrument. Replicating the same instrument many times will always come with diminishing returns.

That pop tart story can't be real, right?

>>12787698
You don't need to cram all your shit into one vehicle.
You can afford higher margin of error, because whilst 10% chance of your only rover failing is not acceptable, 1 out of your 10 rovers failing isn't that big a deal.
You can be more lax with weight saving.
You can use more off the shelf components.

All of this allows you to have each rover only do one or two things, but do them better than if you had everything crammed in one rover, and for a comparable cost.

>>12787133
I’d call that a successful flight. Maybe an asterisk should be put next to it, but successful none the less. Anyhow bring back the ITS legs please

>>12787363
Even if you can land say 200kw worth of solar (think that's about an acre of panels on Mars?), you have to deploy it along with storage and keep it all working remotely.
The range and abilities of industrial type roovers and chemical plants will still be quite limited in the early stages and there's going to be a lot of them already mining/cracking isru materials before anyone ever attempts a return journey.
They will require a lot more energy than regular scientific exploration.
Only thing I can think of to reasonably increase working range is laser power transmission or perhaps even satellite based power.

>>12787755
My theory is that SpaceX will bring their hydrogen with them on the first few manned missions.

>>12787755
>satellite based power.
Would orbital solar satellites trasmitting power down through microwave beams work more efficiently in Mars? It's not like there's any birds to fry anyway

>>12787133
FALCON 9 NOW HAS TIED ITS NUMBER OF LAUNCHES WITH THE ARIANE 5! HOW WILL EUROS COPE?

>>12787749
As I said, these decisions are driven by the science case.
>You can afford higher margin of error, because whilst 10% chance of your only rover failing is not acceptable, 1 out of your 10 rovers failing isn't that big a deal.
That is only useful if the unit cost drops by a factor of 10. It will always be cheaper to simply wait until until a mission fails before flying a second, rather than flying 9 redundant ones.
>for a comparable cost.
That's just an assumption. Not all cost cutting efforts actually work in practice, JWST is the result of one of them.

>>12787765
Cope? ESA has been the laughing stock since its inception.

>>12787757
That's not only fucking retarded but literally impossible. Ever heard of volumetric density?

>>12787771
Ariane 5 is 26 years old holy shit lol

>>12787755
>200kw of solar
That's in the ballpark of the array just on the Starship itself. You could easily fit MWs of solar in the cargo.

>>12787171
It is not the space plane we deserve, but the one we need right now.

>>12787737
Nobody said the mass produced rovers have to have the same instruments.

>>12787771
Plebeian

>>12787772
I did the math in an earlier thread. A fully tanked Starship needs 64 tons of hydrogen, which is about 1100 cubic meters. Too big for a single Starship to land. However, starship just needs 800 tons to reach low mars orbit from the surface and land again. Thats only 44 tons of hydrogen. That’s 750 cubic meters of hydrogen. That can fit in the payload bay of a Starship. Do you send out an extra starship every synod to support the next crew while serving as a backup for the current crew. This vehicle can only get to Low Mars Orbit. However, a fully fueled Starship has 7 km/s even with 100 tons of payload, which is enough to get to mars (4.2 km/). Aero capture (0 km/s). Burn back to Earth (2.6 km/s). And land (0.4 km/s). So you’d have a “Mars Transfer” starship which stays in orbit. And an “ascent descent” Starship which lands and takes off from Mars’ surface.

>"I’ve asked around and I’m yet to find an organizational body, at any level or at any NASA center, which is studying the implications of Starship being operational. It’s not 100% certain at this point, but it’s worth a hedge, and most of the public statements out of senior leadership, officially compelled to shill for SLS, seem to exist in a separate universe where Falcon 9 hasn’t even ever landed."

https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2021/03/04/sls-what-now/

Oof.

>>12787376
>>12787790
Starship is literally 100% certain yet every company refuses to believe it exists

>>12787790
>Article shills Garver and calls her “Biden’s Choice”

>>12787787
> t. Thundercuck

>>12787656
Shittle 2

>>12787796
I’m literally shilling for Starship

>>12787674
Oribtal refueling is the most revolutionary part of this design.

>>12787794
I believe the article is a bit more nuanced than that if you read between the lines. I believe he's calling her one of the least worst alternatives that won't fix jack shit.

>>12787790
>https://twitter.com/NASAGoddard/status/1116310431969239040

>>12787809
>"most of the public statements out of senior leadership"

>>12787787
I appreciate the autism but this only takes it from impossible to impractical, and hydrogen leakage is significant over these time frames so you need a fudge factor. Much better off using that cargo for solar panels instead, and then you aren't cucked with a maximum fuel limit according to imported hydrogen either, plus you need a ton of power for sabatier anyway.

>>12787676
>virgin engineers spend hours tweaking parameters
>chad mexican welders just set them all to 999999 instead

>>12787769
>redundant ones
I see you're conveniently ignoring
>this allows you to have each rover only do one or two things, but do them better than if you had everything crammed into one rover.
>That is only useful if the unit cost drops by a factor of 10.
a) You're sending more and better instruments, you don't need 1 : 1 cost to make it worth it
b) Higher weight allowance, higher margin of error allowance and economy of scale absolutely can drop the unit cost by a factor of 10 or thereabouts. Makings things very light is somewhat hard, making things very reliable is somewhat hard. Making things very light AND very reliable is extremely hard. This makes a big fucking difference.

>>12787771

>>12787593

>>12787575
You're the faggot who posts about how rockets are archaic with that chinese painting, aren't you? I will dedicate my life to proving you wrong so I can watch your nihilist three-chin grin disappear, mark my fucking words doomer.

>>12787809
>>12787813
LUVOIR is kino

>>12787800

>>12787827
Yes, but the intern who runs the Goddard twitter is still not senior leadership at NASA.

>>12787693
probably different throttle settings

>>12787824
ESA is pretty much value brand NASA. Both are great at building autistic one-off missions but suck at human spaceflight.

>>12787780
Then the instruments are still expensive. And there's only so many different experiments that you really want to fly.

>>12787830
It’s literally the only words someone form NASA has ever said about Starship

>>12787839
Well, they said some words when the lander contracts were up for grabs, didn't they?
But they do indeed act as if this rocket is not being developed at a breakneck pace and putting their orange turd to shame.
But that's job safety for you. Bet they're sweating uncomfortable bullets these days.

>>12787752
I can definitely see them being put on. The ITS legs can easily be shrunken down and have coverings made of steel instead of carbon fiber.

>>12787765
Europe is a museum. Nothing to expect from there.

>>12787850
>The ITS legs can easily be shrunken down

>>12787832
https://youtu.be/A3jdsEN70Ss
SOON

>>12787855
Fucking thalidomide legs have to go. Yesterday proved that.

>>12787855
All that's needed now are the inflatable ball sack "toes" for the legs, and the CBT parachute becomes real.

>>12787819
>this allows you to have each rover only do one or two things, but do them better than if you had everything crammed into one rover.
If they're not redundant then losing one is a problem.
>a) You're sending more and better instruments, you don't need 1 : 1 cost to make it worth it
You still need a science case. More cost means you need a better justification to get selected in the first place. You keep ignoring this point.
>b) Higher weight allowance, higher margin of error allowance and economy of scale absolutely can drop the unit cost by a factor of 10 or thereabouts.
Many assumptions. You can only really take advantage of economies of scale if you convince the Decadal Survey to let you spam rovers. The unit cost doesn't matter to them, they will care about the total program cost.

>>12787832
What's the context behind that image?

>>12787848
True. It seems like the Astronauts are impressed with Starship. Anyhow I legit can’t see how anyone would think of Starship as vaporware at this point.

>>12787771
Weren't it for ESA you ungrateful shits would be visiting Mir II right now.

>>12787857
>thalidomide legs
Lmao. I am a proponent of bringing back ITS legs, at least to some extent. The wider stance seems safer and the deployment method seems like it can't really fuck up.

>>12787853
“Europe is a museum.”
Well put. Europe is clearly a collection of cultures in their twilight years, without any real future potential of expansion. Like a grandpa war veteran who knows he’ll never feel as alive as he did in ‘44, and his death isn’t very far into the future. I genuinely expect more from the Africans than I do Europe by about 2050.

>>12787866
Starship is a fat bottomed bitch, simple as.
She needs some thicc legs to support that shit.

>>12787866
While we're at it, we should add stringers inside the starship tank itself. It just seems too weak and crumples if it isn't pressurized.

>>12787869
I still think the base should flare out a meter or so

Fake and gay

>>12787870
Starship’s tank did fine the damn thing came down onto its skirt.

>>12787869
Jej ThiccBros we win again

>>12787868
>I genuinely expect more from the Africans than I do Europe by about 2050.
Okay, I get that Europe isn't doing that great, but no. If anything, the pajeets are more likely to succeed.

>>12787870
Yeah kek the nose cone crumpled the fuck up after the thing started blowing up

>>12787875
Fair enough. But anyways, I say we start designing those legs.

>>12787758
I've seen lasers proposed more for space, but not sure what works better in that environment, especially with dust storms and such. Microwaves do work fine on Earth but have less range I think.
The issue with lasers is that we suck at keeping the beam coherent over distance.

>>12787776
This is why mentioned footprint size, you are talking about tens of acres of panels in your comment, that's a huge plant to build remotely. Wasn't arguing about a payload of ever more panels and 80 ton lithium batteries.
A 1MW plant on Earth produces about 3.5MWh a day. On Mars it will be about 1.5MWh a day and completely limits exploration to with 30 degrees latitude. Robots have to assemble and maintain all that from scratch.
Someone will eventually just bite the bullet and go with a small modular reactor that has the footprint of a caravan.

>>12787881
I’m sure SpaceX is on it. They’ve literally never tested the legs on a full Starship stack before though. They’re learning shit as they go

>>12787869
Yes, it needs landing legs worthy to contain its dumpster truck ass

>>12787872
Surely that has a massive aerodynamic penalty though?

>>12787839
>>12787830
False. 3 of the 4 astrophysics flagship telescope studies mentioned SS (then BFR) as a possible launch vehicle.

https://www.greatobservatories.org

The 4th, Lynx, is however the most likely to happen.

>>12787884
>This is why mentioned footprint size, you are talking about tens of acres of panels in your comment, that's a huge plant to build remotely.
I never said "remotely deploy the solar array", and I've never seen Musk say "remotely deploy the solar array" either. It isn't necessary. Stop invoking robots for everything.

>>12787894
Lynx is cool but seriously I want LUVOIR goddamnit! Anyhow what makes these dudes into Starship but not the other NASA programs

>>12787911
Thank you I meant to put them both on the same image originally lol

>>12787911
Starship seems so simple as a concept like why didn’t anyone think of it before? The closest I can remember being is the DC-Y/X but that fell for the SSTO meme

>>12787920
Because propulsive landing is actually impossible for oldpsace to try and do. They do not possess the capability to iterate quickly. Before all these private space companies, access to LEO and beyond was highlighted by "you must go as slow as possible and do it as expensively as possible to make sure nothing goes wrong. Space is hard. And even after going slow, things still will go wrong."

>>12787859
>If they're not redundant then losing one is a problem.
Learn to read, tard, where did I say there wouldn't be any redundancy? I just objected to you pretending that there would be 10 redundant rovers.
>the proposal would be rejected because it wouldn't be economic if it got rejected
Are you mentally retarded?

>>12787929
Jej I was just thinking about that yesterday. If Boeing made Starship, would it have worked on the first try? You know damn well they’d move heaven and earth to make sure it happened perfectly.

>>12787894
>False
Oh, so the intern who runs the Goddard twitter is senior leadership at NASA?

>>12787929
>is actually impossible for oldpsace to try and do.
They could, if they wanted to and were forced to do so. See DC-X. Alas, most of the good engineers and Apollo staff are long gone.

>>12787860
its funny

>>12787912
LUVOIR is not going to happen, it would be a disaster. The astrophysics budget has seen little growth over the past 10 years, so there's only about 5 billion per decade for a major mission. The other concepts were told use this as a budget limit, LUVOIR was already so far gone that it couldn't be done. Even the "cheap" 8 meter version is far too expensive. Because it's so expensive it would take 20 years to develop, it would turn the JWST fiasco into the norm. Scientific priorities are supposed to be judged every 10 years, JWST fucked that up. LUVOIR would rob the next decades astronomers of the power to chose a mission.
Even if it would happen it would never be 15 meters, every NASA telescope gets de-scoped. Hubble, Spitzer, JWST. Note that 10 years ago the same telescope was proposed as ATLAST, in 8, and 16 meter versions. 10 years before that a 16 meter was also proposed. It's Goddard getting greedy again.

>>12787937
They have a lot of good engineers they just put them to serving the wrong problems most of the time. This is the issue with oldspace in general going a long way back.

>>12787898
Unlikely your solar array assembly crew is going to Mars without a return trip.
To fill up a single Starship for coming home they have to produce about 26 tonnes a day. Not easy when most of it is coming from an energy expensive process in near-vacuum pressure.
People will demand half that work already being done before they even arrive.

>>12787941
Ah I thought so I saw that one video too. If I have to be honest with you I’d rather fun six or seven more planetary exploration missions than another telescope.

>>12787946
>To fill up a single Starship for coming home they have to produce about 26 tonnes a day
You're off by an order of magnitude and change, you okay bud?

>>12787930
>Learn to read, tard, where did I say there wouldn't be any redundancy? I just objected to you pretending that there would be 10 redundant rovers.
No you didn't. You didn't even quote that text in your reply. You only quoted "redundant ones". The number is completely irreverent to the point.
>the proposal would be rejected because it wouldn't be economic if it got rejected
That's not what I fucking said. You conveniently ignored the last part of my statement. Unit cost is irreverent to the decadal, they only care about the total cost.

>>12787962
Why can’t they just fill up the tanks of one of their cargo starships and use it to store the propellant?

>>12787961
The budgets are separate. And nah, telescopes are better. The scientific return on planetary missions is so low compared to the cost. A billion dollars worth of telescope can get you thousands of exoplanets. A billion worth of planetary science gets you pictures of rocks, or a methane non-detection.

>>12787985
And detecting exoplanets is worth what exactly? Why not send missions to places humans can actually go to this millennia?

>>12788000
Exoplanets are cool. The data will be useful for the warpships we’ll send out in the 2600s

>>12788000
What's the point in studying rocks on a planet that humans will go to in a few decades anyway? Studying exoplanets tells you about how planets formed in general, and perhaps how common life may be.

>>12787856
Kinda shame he wasn't given the red stripes, but may be because his last spacewalk was fifteen years ago, while Kate already commanded the previous one. Not to mention, that last time Soichi worn the red stripes it was during the Shuttle era, when it served only for the identification purpose.

>>12787985
everything that isn't Mars is a waste of time to /sci/ because their worldview is completely borrowed from Musk

niggas have watched too much sci-fi and think a barren desert planet is le epic and colonization soon

>>12788011
>>12788000
It could boost public interest in space if we show how much cool shit just waits to be discovered

>>12787966
>they only care about the total cost.
And? I just demonstrated that the payload cost is fine, and we assume that the delivery cost is fine. Where's the issue?

>>12788017
Mars is the easiest colonization target by far. Titan could be cool but the delta/v costs are prohibitive, and Venus’ surface can’t really be accessed. Mars has sun, plenty of minerals, and plenty of water.

>>12788025
>I just demonstrated that the payload cost is fine
You only mentioned unit costs. Nowhere did you consider how many units would have to be made to reach these savings.

>>12788017
Would it kill you to make an argument on its own merits instead of throwing a "M-mars bad" fit every time? I'm not the other anon, I actually like exoplanet science, but if you can't make a proper argument in its favor you can't complain.

>>12788018
You can say the same about exoplanets. And I think exoplanets have instilled far more interest than Mars in recent years.

>>12788042
Yeah I meant exoplanets, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.
Also, will telescopes ever get good enough to directly image an exoplanet?

>>12788011
>What's the point in studying rocks on a planet that humans will go to in a few decades anyway?
Because when you're risking human lives you want to have as much data beforehand as possible, and because we have the capability to send robots now but not astronauts.

>Studying exoplanets tells you about how planets formed in general, and perhaps how common life may be.
So does exploring our own solar system. Only difference is one can happen this century and the other is so unimaginably distant it's not worth mentioning

>>12787171
>No Hermes

They done did my boy rotten right there

>>12787133
>>12787133

i fucking love soience

>>12788041
>>12788036
you will never be on mars

>>12788046
Hermes didn't play any role in the development of Dream Chaser.

>>12788050
Prove it with your time machine.

>>12787985

We need to be sending people to planets while building big and cheap space telescopes. Fuck Origami, I want to see a stack of 8-meter flat-pack telescopes that are launched on Starship and form an interferometer hundreds of kilometers wide at one of the lagrange points.

>>12788050
>wah why does no one agree with me
>did you try making an argument
>WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12788044
Exoplanets have been directly imaged for over a decade. I assume you either mean when will we see Earth-like planets or when will surface detail be seen. Earth like planets may be directly imaged in 20 years. The 39 meter European ELT could be first to image super-earths, but truly Earth like planets may take a dedicated space mission.
Resolving exoplanets to see surface details is much harder. That will require large arrays of telescopes, with separations of thousands of kms. That probably won't happen for 50 years, progress on space based interferometers has been delayed many times.

So do we know for certain exactly why SN10 exploded after landing?

(((12788049)))
> page 1 /sfg/
pic related

>>12788055
With that service module, Dream Chaser has an awful lot of Hermes DNA in it, and you could even argue that Dream Chaser is really just an update of the Hermes concept that uses the Spiral Spaceplane architecture to save money/time by not having to figure out the hypersonic flight dynamics of a clean-sheet orbiter design.

Which makes the ESA look even more pathetic than usual since fucking Sierra Nevada managed to turn their pie in the sky manned spaceflight concept into flight hardware for peanuts while European astronauts still hitch rides on Soyuz.

>>12788070
no

>>12788065
If life can be detected from chemical composition of exoplanet atmospheres (which ELT or even JWST could do), space telescopes might get a huge boost and an international cooperation effort (think LHC). This way large space based interferometers could be a reality in 2050s.

>>12788070
No one has a confirmed answer but [presumably] the ass smacked the concrete pretty hard and methane started leaking from the bottom, eventually caught alight because there were flames all over the pad, and a big boom ensued

>>12788077
Sure, but by the time that document was made neither the cargo Dream Chaser, not the service module existed.

>>12788045
>Because when you're risking human lives you want to have as much data beforehand as possible, and because we have the capability to send robots now but not astronauts.
But why? If you want to minimise risk at all costs then don't send humans. And now vs later is not a great argument.

>So does exploring our own solar system. Only difference is one can happen this century and the other is so unimaginably distant it's not worth mentioning
And you're totally blinded by only having one sample. Exoplanets have shown that the Solar System totally fails to represent the true range and diversity of systems. More progress has been made studying planet formation in the last 20 years than all before that, because now there are statistics and now planet formation can be studied directly (like this example from the VLT).

>>12788094
>why wear hard hats if you want to minimize risk don't construct anything at all lol

>>12788077
And if HL-20 has any Hermes genes, you will have to ask NASA Langley or Lockheed Martin about that one.

>>12788039
We were talking about 10, so something like that. As I said, that would absolutely be reachable, since you don't have to make things super light and super reliable at the same time, and development being vast majority of the cost helps a lot too, since you just saved massively on that.

You're already sending a starship (or something like that), because you want to properly develop and test one common transport and landing method, so you're not gonna save on transportation by developing a special vehicle to send only two or three revers instead of 10.
But I could see couple rovers on a starship with rest of the capacity being used to preposition supplies, that makes sense also.

>>12787790
It is a bit difficult to comprehend. People will probably start to notice when it's fully stacked.

>>12787752
Shit rocket crashes
>successful

>>12788077
>Which makes the ESA look even more pathetic
What killed Hermes was a lack of purpose, not some incredible technical feat that only America could overcome. Most people at ESA accepted that building in-space hardware was much more efficient than building their own manned launch system. Columbus launched more than a decade ago, Nauka is still delayed.

>>12787824
that looks really fucking cool
>>12787825
what the FUCK it's so similar
>>12787920
severe stagnation
And you know what? Spaceflight isn't the only field that has this problem. Not even close. Boomers suck.

>>12788101
If hard hats cost 2.5 billion a piece, people would make sure they really needed them.

>>12788116
>crash
You mean rocket goes boom

>>12788070
I think it's clear that a fire under the skirt weakened the welds

>>12788119
Meanwhile US habitation module, and Japanese centrifuge module got CANCELED.

Once starship is proven to actually work and gets down to Elons insane cost estimate. What the happens to everyone else? Do they all just go out of business if they cant make a similar performing rocket?

>>12787868
>he doesn't even understand the basics of civilization
>Africa
Fuck you're stupid.

>>12788105
>We were talking about 10, so something like that.
You were talking about reducing the unit cost by a factor of 10, that certainly won't happen if you only build 10. There is no way you go from 1 to 10 with the same total cost. 10 isn't even mass production, it's industrial replication.

>>12788136
Yes

>>12788140
seething Eurocuck lmao

>>12788140
Civilization spawned spontaneously in Africa just like it did in the Mediterranean, in China, in India, and in the Americas

Are there any estimates for the extra large starship designs?

>>12788136
Many governments will hamstring themselves rather than put anything on Starship and will endlessly cry about dumping. US companies that don't get that kind of protection will still be heavily subsidized.

>>12788157
It will be at least twice as thick, and only a little taller. They should lose the window though it will make it look so stupid. Also if they are going that big they might as well go with the ITS legs

>>12788155
Look into the Egyptian genetics studies, they weren't Africans. You're free to believe the dirt people live on grant them magic intelligence and social cohesion.
>>12788154
Sorry burger, but empires fall when the ethinicity that build them looses power.

>>12788119
This. French weren't just trying to build their own Shuttle, like the Soviets. They were working on Hermes for about just as long as the Americans. Then they have figured out that it would be too expensive, and not as efficient as they have expected, and pulled the plug.

>>12788157
Imagine the sound

>>12788094
>don't send humans
What would be the point of anything then? Everything we've gathered from telescopes and probes and rovers is for the purpose of enabling us to leave Earth and explore. It's like if you spent all your time studying music theory and learning instruments and then someone asked you to write a piece of music and your response was "nah I'm waiting to compose a symphony using instruments that won't exist for another thousand years". Gaining a better understanding of the universe is good but it's literally meaningless if it's not used to actually do anything. Mars is right there, along with a half dozen large moons and asteroids and dwarf planets. Going to them beats publishing some scientific papers no one will read.

>>12788141
You're not saving that much on identical product.
But you don't NEED an identical product.
It's not specialty military vehicle vs 10 similar specialty military vehicles.
It's specialty military vehicle vs 10 Toyota Hiluxes with canon stuck on the back.

>>12788157
here's your max size

Anyone got links to amateur videos of SN10 landing and crowd reactions? I see on streams a few news orgs were there, they must be releasing footage and inverviews

You all hate how NASA is a jobs program, but are somehow surprised that ESA is the same. And for some reason you disregard the fact that Europe is not a country. Even the most advanced EU nations are not pursuing a unified goal in any area but are instead fighting with each other about almost everything. There is no political will behind ESA, apart from France and Italy and both those countries have a lot bigger problems right now than spaceflight. And all of eastern Europe is still recovering from gommunism, because it is really that bad. It will take some time before we get our own SpaceX, but I was pleasantly surprised that Endurosat is actually based in my shithole.

I'M GONNA SAY.
Y'LL A BUNCH OF C

>>12788181
We will never get a spaceX style private company in Europe. Goverments would bully them off to america before they would even get ground infrastructure up.

>>12788172
>What would be the point of anything then?
You can still learn things without sending humans. Unless you're not actually interested in science, in which case your justification for sending robots first is moot. If you only care about sending humans then it doesn't matter what data is returned.
>Everything we've gathered from telescopes and probes and rovers is for the purpose of enabling us to leave Earth and explore.
Wrong. Astronomy began long before people even realised that the planets were places to go to.

>>12788181
>Even the most advanced EU nations are not pursuing a unified goal in any area but are instead fighting with each other about almost everything.
Very true.
>>12788187
See.. OTRAG?

>>12788176
>25m diameter
What kind of launch pad you would need for that thing

>>12788195
ask ur mom

>>12788195
A disposable one.

>>12788181
>Europe is set up to utterly fail at anything beyond the scope of bread and circuses
I don't think anyone's surprised by that, that's exactly the issue.

>>12787593
I guess so. It's like a white paintjob without the paint.

>>12788157
I'm pretty sure they would buckle under their own weight.

We could have transportation ships which would never land and just park in orbit and then be refueled.
Ascent/descent vehicles could be optimised for their respective planet.

>>12788163
Africa was swarming with kingdoms and empires of various sizes below the Sahel.

>>12788174
But then it's just comes down to your assertion that your simplifications will reduce the cost that much. Note that NASA had an era of "better, fast, cheaper". It resulted in 2 failed Mars missions, a melted comet mission and the "cost cutting" JWST. Not all attempts to reduce cost are successful.

>>12788195
Core out a drilling platform, clamp it suspended over the ocean.

>>12788187
We don't need a big launch provider company. When Starship opens the market, we can and will focus on in space solutions.

>>12788181
Spaceflight is too big an endeavor for europe. But we could have a booming space industry which specializes in making space hardware like satelites as long as it's private sector.

>>12788206
How are the American continents any different?

>>12788181
>Even the most advanced EU nations are not pursuing a unified goal in any area
That's bullshit. ESA is very carefully structured. All member states are required to support the mandatory core programs, which includes science. Unlike NASA, once a science mission is selected it cannot be cancelled by politicians.
>There is no political will behind ESA, apart from France and Italy
Launchers are only a small part of ESA, they are an optional program.

>>12788187
>Goverments would bully them off to america before they would even get ground infrastructure up.
That government being the US, waving the protectionist ITAR.

>>12788229
ESA is too stupid to udnerstand how advertising works. I bet my ass that they are still looking for people understanding geo data and satelite scans.
ESA may know how to research things but the rest is an utter joke.

>>12788222
? Look at the results. Europe has ~twice the population and is incredibly rich, but I'd rather have India's space program let alone that of the US.

>>12788188
>You can still learn things without sending humans.
obviously

>Unless you're not actually interested in science, in which case your justification for sending robots first is moot.
I'm interested in "science" insofar as it results in real-world action i.e. establishing a Mars colony. Planetary scientists circle jerking over the discovery of shithole exoplanet #4514 doesn't interest me.

>If you only care about sending humans then it doesn't matter what data is returned.
Uh, yes it does assuming you want living bodies and not corpses.

>Wrong. Astronomy began long before people even realised that the planets were places to go to.
I was clearly talking about space telescopes since that's what the conversation was originally about, but yeah good job

>>12788237
> I bet my ass that they are still looking for people understanding geo data and satelite scans.
It's like you've never heard of Copernicus.

>>12788239
The EU simply has their priorities somewhere else. But whatever they're doing instead, I don't see many results.

>>12788239
parts of europe are rich, mostly because colonialism gave them a headstart.

>>12788253
Satalite coordinated remote controleld farming didn't got introduced in a wide scale project because they have too few people. Many other projects too.
Like I said they don't understand how advertising works

>>12788213
Most of it comes down to weight.
There's plenty of off the shelf components that are well tested and have well known limits, but are currently completely useless, because they're too heavy - and you're stuck developing them from ground up.
Being able to just pick those up, possibly making some improvements where needed, can save a fuckton of money.
Just take something as basic as steel: it has really great properties and a fuckton of research and development behind it. But it's barely used on those vehicles, because it's kinda heavy.
The weight limit is a complete game changer.

>>12788239
? The American continents have a population of a billion. Europe has a population of 740mil.

>>12788258
>The EU simply has their priorities somewhere else
Destroying their own race

>>12788251
>Uh, yes it does assuming you want living bodies and not corpses.
And why does studying rocks change that?
>I was clearly talking about space telescopes since that's what the conversation was originally about, but yeah good job
But you didn't say that. And it's still false. If space telescopes were only built to support manned spaceflight then lots of missions never would have happened: Those studying cosmology (COBE, WMAP, Planck, Euclid, WFIRST). Those built for studying distant galaxies (JWST, ISO, Chandra and XMM...).

>>12788258
They try to do a bit of everything. Because its a thing germany likes to do.

>>12788267
I was comparing to the US, hence I concluded with the US. The rest of the Americas consist of developing/failed states and a couple of livable but irrelevant ones.

>>12788263
ESA's job isn't farming. But they do provide the data (Copernicus) and positioning (Galileo) for 3rd parties to do so.

>>12788177
Found a playlist with some new ones I hadn't seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi3gd45hQFk&list=PL5ZYeu-e7-ClLE6eS14c2JjuZSqy-2gRF&index=7

>>12788281
Its their job to make the data somewhat usable which they can't because they have too few people. Again they need analysts which they can't get due bad advertiising.

>>12788278
Maybe you starting to see why your comparison is retarded? If you compare the US to the whole of Europe, then you have to take into account that Russia has its own space program, that has different goals from ESA. If you compare with only the EU, then the population and GDP is very similar. But the EU is NOT a country with a unified political will, despite what /pol/ thinks. And a lot of the money goes to education and healthcare, unlike the US where it just goes to Israel.

>>12787752
Fugg, I'd like the final design to be this one sooo bad. It won't be, that's for sure, as they're going for the mirrored look, and will cut down on the top window and the legs won't be as noticeable as they're there. Also, no fins.But damn. How does /sfg/ reckon the final design will change from the current state of starship (before the RUD of yesterday)?

>>12787868
okay tranny

>>12788288
This is the best one for a civilian perspective. Good tracking, and can see most of the entire flight (or the interesting parts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhtsiwrjz3w

>>12788294
The data is public. Plenty of people are using it. If a company is incapable of utilising the data then it's them who needs better analysts. ESA and the EU spent billions on satellites and the provide the data for free, anyone who wants to use the data should pull their finger out of their ass.

>>12788295
>we try to work together and fail
>somehow our failure excuses us from comparison
Okay.

It got missed in the excitement of the launch, but I loved this hot mic moment
https://youtu.be/ODY6JWzS8WU?t=530

>>12788313
>european countries are working together
Is this what americans actually believe?

>>12788347
Notice I pointed out the failure bit.

>>12788301
Literally just change the legs. They may add an engine or two to Superheavy.

>>12788354
why is my country light gray faggot?

>>12788363
Because it's completely worthless

>>12788364

>>12788354
Yup, you are retarded. Also, judging from your map it is obvious that ESA's shortcomings are all Canada's fault. Because as we all know Canada is part of the European country which is structured exactly like the USA. No difference at all.

>>12787384
>Giving every major university a rover is bad because it devalues scientific papers

So we're talking about the scientific equivalent of opening up the Machine gun registry.

Are spacewhales possible

>>12788363
Are you Canadian?

>>12788373
Do you even have a point or do you just enjoy the sound of your own whining? Actually, if you're from Europe don't bother answering that, everyone already knows the answer.

>>12787133
Why are Europeans in denial about the ESA being shit? It’s literally worse than NASA at least NASA is building SLS and Orion. Europe has no plans for anything aside from relying on the Soyuz for the next 100 years.

Proof
Here
Watch immediately

https://youtu.be/_HHPXBAx8Ac

>>12788373
Yes is more socialist like us in Europa and therefore poorer than its southern neighbor.

>>12787185
i think it's because of how smooth the camera movements are

>>12788386
Lmao Eurofags keep getting btfo'd today
>>12788176
Oh yeah I forgot casey handmer talked about it

>>12788397
Canada isn’t socialist

>>12788406
Chud

>>12788409
Chud

>>12788379
extremophiles can live in a vacuum so yes, there's likely some already out there just on statistics alone

>>12787593
No baby legs anywhere SN10 landed on bodyframe and fins.

>>12788306
Until we get flying saucers, propulsive landing is the only acceptable future. Parachute plebs needs not to apply.

>>12788411
????
Socialism is worker ownership and management of the means of production. i.e, worker cooperatives. Canada is just a capitalist country with a welfare system that gives people free shit

>>12788393
ESA originally planned manned capsule based on ATV. It was supposed to be Russian capsule + ESA service module.
But then 2008 financial crisis hit and everything was canceled and ATV program was scrapped as too expensive.
Then ESA service module become Orion service module financed by NASA and capsule become Russian Orel.

>>12787375
tell that to the apollo 1 crew

How would you design a station for rockets?

Everyone saying the flip and burn shot frpm the spacex stream was cgi is kinda annoying desu

>>12788434
O'Neil cylinder with pumps fit for rockets along the edge

Wait, what the fuck even is fire? Is it.....like.....exothermic oxidation reactions creating glowing gasses or something? If so, can the other oxidizers like chlorine cause fires when there’s no oxygen?

>>12788436
Who?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_iMMJhta04

>>12788393
Half of the ISS got built by ESA, JWST will get launched by ESA, Orion service modules are being made by ESA. Gateway modules are getting made by ESA. YOU would be relying on Soyuz, weren't it for one South African billionaire.

>>12788436
>he reads comments on youtube and twitter

>>12788441
Me niqqa

>Texas, SpaceX test ends badly: rocket explodes after landing

>tfw first newspaper of your country is prime memes material

>>12788439
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/fire.htm
^It should answer your questions

>>12788455
>ends badly
>J*urnalist take

>>12788455
At least the Norwegian state broadcaster had the decency to correct their initial "SpaceX rocket exploded" byline to a "successful" after a while.
Other rags still have "exploded" clickbait out there.
It's all so tiresome.

Someone should do one of those 64 bits 32 bits memes but with starship prototypes.

>>12788455
And people wonder why Putin makes journalists disappear. These people are a cancer on society

>>12788461
I hope that someday journalist and media informed themselves properly after sperging shit

>>12788458
Yup, and you dind't read the blurb:

>The enthusiasm lasted few minutes for the latest test carried out by SpaceX, the aerospace company of Elon Musk: the SN10 prototype - designed to transport people and materials to Mars - has managed to land but then exploded in the base of Boca Chica, Texas. This is the third failed attempt, although a small step forward has been made: the two previous prototypes had both exploded but during landing.

>>12788445
Fuck tranny shit fuck BLM shit fuck progressives, shit like this is what makes America so based. The news needs to shut the fuck up about Trump and Biden and AOC and focus on stuff like this. What is healthier for a child's mind? Telling them there are 156 genders and that they can cut their boobs and penis off? Or showing them this and getting them into engineering and telling them they are all equally capable of learning how to build rockets

>>12788386
>>12788393
My original point was that Europe is not a country, so ESA is not a national space agency like NASA. But you are too retarded to get that.

>>12788461
maybe spacex should stop having their rockets explode if they don't like it

>>12788467
My fault. Thanks for correcting me anon

>>12788455
Yeah twitteranon here who posts most of the Berger stuff: top trending on the News right now is "BREAKING - SpaceX rocket explodes after third attempt"
This world needs to be purged of ((((((((((journalists)))))))))))))

>>12788468
>What is healthier for a child's mind? Telling them there are 156 genders and that they can cut their boobs and penis off? Or showing them this and getting them into engineering and telling them they are all equally capable of learning how to build rockets

(((They))) know it’s unhealthy which is why they spread it.

>>12788477
>>12788455
Modern journalism is all about clickbait and mentioning explosions and bad results in the title is guaranteed clicks.

>>12788469
Just shut the fuck up

>>12788482
Did I hurt your feefees?

>>12788193
>>Even the most advanced EU nations are not pursuing a unified goal in any area but are instead fighting with each other about almost everything.
>Very true.
It'll never work until there's a US of Europe because otherwise political leaders have to fight their neighbours or lose the election

>>12788487
Unironically this.
>Inb4, mommy Von der Leyen, dominate my shithole

>>12788237
>I bet my ass that they are still looking for people understanding geo data and satelite scans
What fucking difference does that make to anything?

>>12788487
>US of Europe
More like Union of European Socialistic Republics

>>12788455
Bad news sells. Its a biological instinct to make our brains more alert to bad things around us. People who do not understand this mechanism are led by daily bad news. People who understand this do not read daily news.
On top of this, daily/hourly/minutely exposure to bad news puts the mind in high threat-mode. This creates a psychological trauma for the brain which is never put to rest. Social media is like this today, its only been getting worse since media has come to be omnipresence in our lives.

>>12787581
There are no flammable materials there to react with lox, besides methane.

>>12788260
Pretty much bollocks this. The richest parts of Europe are tax havens, or heavily weighted towards finance or hydrocarbons. Most of that money was made over the last hundred years

>>12788501
>Thinking that the entirety of Europe is socialist
Read Marx theory, and compare it with EU countries

>>12788469
Yes, Europe is not a country. Europe is a rich and populous region which attempts to act collectively and collectively achieves a level of space development on par with and losing ground to weaker regional powers. Is there something I missed?

>>12788487
I wouldn't mind an European Federation, but I'm also aware you can't expect cultures that have fought for thousands of years each other to form a somewhat stable union. I suppose what's needed is a great impending threat, but then you look at the 'rona management disaster and future does look gloomy.

could you do F9 style landing gear for SS but put all the gear on the non-heat shield side of the craft? like pic related, you have it longer than the other gear, but closer to the edge and then it deploys at an angle instead of straight

>>12788511
While I am not literate in socio-politics, I do believe that eventually it could be possible, taking into account the need that each european country has with eachother.

>>12788511
The way you "manage" coronavirus is just ignore it

>>12788503
Also the daily/hourly/minutely consumption of media/bad news creates a wrong impression of reality for the consumer of those information. It makes them feel like the world is a really bad place and out to kill you. Hysterias are born like this. Coronovirus hysteria of 2020 is a prominent recent example of this. 24/7, every single hour, minute of news media talking about how the virus will kill you made lot of the general public think they will really die from the virus. When the reality is, 99.9999% wont ever have an issue. You're 5-10x more likely to get into a car accident than die from coronavirus on average, and if you're under 60, then anywhere from 10-30x more likely to get into accident than die of Corona.

>>12788393
>Why are Europeans in denial about the ESA being shit?
We aren't. Only our career politicians are. If I were in charge I'd fire all of them. We know damn well we've been fucked over.

>>12788468
> Comfy wholesome amateur sn10 footage
> Presented without comment
> Anon goes into a deranged offtopic rant about trannies, BLM and pol shit that no one cares about
Used to think the rent free thing was just trolling but it really is true for some people hey. I don't now how the fuck you idiots manage living like this every single day.
Literally rent free. Now fucking leave and never come back cunt.

>>12788509
You are missing the entire point of ESA. Most of the countries in it are just there for the "prestige" of it. Which is retarded because we all agree ESA is shit. Only France actually cares about rockets, and not because they care about space, but because they need to have people who are able to build ICBMs. Also the muh jobs argument, which I think is obvious.

>>12788455
This is what happens when your ""journalists""" write about shit they do not even bother to research.

>>12788536
What does Germany even do in ESA?

>>12788536
I don't see why all the cope and equivocation is necessary when the ultimate conclusion is still that the European model has been an abject failure.

>>12788547
What do you even call an European model?? The continent had 2 world wars, and after that half of it was occupied by the US and the other by the USSR. And since the soviets collapsed, and the US is quickly trying to follow them, there isn't any cohesive effort in Europe. Just different countries trying to get ahead of their neighbours.

>>12788263
Having worked on EU projects in Brussels I would say the very last people that should be anywhere near making these decisions are Brussels eurocrats. They are almost without exception humanities grads and often from generations of bureaucrats. The last thing these people want is genuine innovation as that might upset their sweet sweet gravy train

So how exactly did the subatomic particles necessary for Big Bang nucleosynthesis get there?

We are not ready for Mars or the Moon. Without proper space travel technology like anti-gravity our keg powder tincans are too inefficient and slow to do it.

>>12788542
The German government only cares about jobs and its economy. Literally Shelby on steroids. And the german people are blasted with constant propaganda how they are the reason for every evil in the world, and how the biggest problem is muh climate.

>>12788560
my friends has to work with them too I just hear is weekly meltdowns. This was one of them some years back. He tried said agricultural reform but got 0 help from anyone. ESA was like we would be we don't have enough people sorrey.

>>12788511
The cultures are phenomenally diverse as well. Even Brits and Dutch misunderstand each other despite being pretty close in lots of ways.

>>12788567
Speaking of anti gravity. What do you guys think of this new paper saying you coukd theoretically build a subliminal one by using without using negative energy?
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/abdf6e
Of course it won't be possible to build it in our lifetime or ever

>>12788567
>Dude just trust me

>>12788558
>The continent had 2 world wars
One day, without provocation, Europe attacked itself. And then did it again. The poor baby.

>>12788567
Wrong. Six months is a perfectly doable travel time to Mars

>>12788379
We should be able to launch your mom on an expendable falcon heavy, yes.

>>12788528

>>12788586
That only makes sense if you assume that "Europe" as a thing actually exists, and it does not.

>>12788578
Anyone with a bigger bran than me got any thoughts on this?

Anons, I want to learn the science necessary to understand (and actually being able to discuss it).
Where should I start?

>>12787860
Obsessive avatar-poster who posts random images he sees in earlier threads because he has anxiety of being ignored.
>I'M GONNA POOOOOOOOST

>>12788597
>Quantum gravity
stopped reading right there

>>12788600
Play kerbal space program and
>1. get to orbit
>2. make orbit rendezvous (many times)
>3. land on and ascend back from Eve

Finishing this you will be - I shit you not - bigger expert on spaceflight than many working in the field unless it involves direct design of hardware and or mission planning.

Naturally don't be a zoomer and don't just follow tutorials step by step pretending you are the one doing it.

Good luck.

>>12788600
Play KSP unironically and also watch some Scott Manley

Learning the mechanics of KSP is enough to understand the basics of real-life spaceflight

>>12788611
Whats wrong with quantum gravity

>>12788509
>>12788536
To add to this. NASA was created to actually achieve stuff in space, and it did that. ESA was created so the French could have ICBMs and it also did that. They were never the same thing and are both currently shit. But ESA was never great. It never claimed to be great. It was always shit. Unlike NASA, which is currently a total fucking embarrassment. And the fact people are comparing it to fucking ESA shows just how shit NASA is right now.

>>12788600
design and built roggets. fly them.

>>12788572
One of the amusing facts about EU science is that an early use of satellite imagery was catching Italian and Greek fraudsters that were claiming EU subsidies for olive plantations that didn't exist. One of the reasons they were forced to these lengths was because various parties were paid to look the other way up to and including people in Brussels. How tf can the continent thrive when you're up against thousands of years of zero sum deviousness

>>12788481
It's all wannabe actors and novel writers trying to write drama instead of reporting news because they're too lazy to find news, meanwhile NPCs eat it up and inflate their ego.

>>12788622
If Europeans invested as much time and effort into research and exploration as they did on excusing themselves for stagnating, you might have something to brag instead of cope about.

>>12788525
>You're 5-10x more likely to get into a car accident than die from coronavirus on average
But then it would still be a corona death, so BE AFRAID!

>>12788618
Quantum gravity is a meme, and this paper is basically just doing what all science fiction writers for the past 50 years have done
“lel what if quantum gravity was REAL, and we had like, artificial gravity???”

>>12788571
German here. This guy is correct. 5 years in school is
>Nazis bad okay?
Any form of pride is stomped early on and criticism is proud that you're a nazi.

>>12788112
Sometimes 4chan's autism pierces the veil of time and sees the future before major players do. /g/ did it with corporate surveillance and proprietary software, /pol/ did it with Trump, and now /sci/ is doing it with Starship.

>>12788646
So if quantum gravity is true then what that paper proposes is completely possible?

>>12788646
Mid-wit who doesn't understand science.

>>12788645
I forgot how shit this general got after big profile events. This is facebook boomer tier.

>>12788626
Yeah I always joke that if you pay each politicians 100k we would get help from everymen living in the EU. I have my fair sahre of dealing if eurocrats too (regulations are bitches), if I try something new I have to contact a lawyer and pay some thousands of euros just to check if its ok to do that and even then some ecoactivist jumps out of teh bushes and drags that shit in the EU court. So another couple of thousands vanish. Since teh EU court is so pozzed by activists you never know if they rule in favour even if you did everything like everyone wanted. Beside that, I really like the concept of the EU helping and supporting each other, but what we actual use it for is a bad joke.
>t. chemical engeneer

>>12788468

>>12788656
It's not exaggerated in the slightest. People have looked into reporting standards for what constitutes a kung flu death and it turns out hospitals have been cooking the books to get more federal money.

>>12788662

>>12788409
I said more socialist not socialist, you fucking degenerate neverwoman

>>12788640
If well researched articles were worth the effort, news sites would make them. As it stands, it's easier to make easy to write clickbait and harvest the clicks.

>>12788654
Correct me then

>>12788412
Yes Earth got impregnated by extremophiles coming from Mars on asteroids

how long until sn11 flies?

>>12788468
>see experimental spaceship
>first thoughts are gay black transexuals

>>12788644
>muh bragging
You mean like the first satellite? Or the first man in space? Or the first space station? If the Americans invested as much time and effort in research and development as they did in niggers and Israel, you might have been shitposting from Mars right now.

>>12787133
>"Let us say we had ten guaranteed launches per year in Europe and we had a rocket which we can use ten times—we would build exactly one rocket per year," he said. "That makes no sense. I cannot tell my teams: 'Goodbye, see you next year!'"
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

>>12788669
The journal is called "Classical and Quantum Gravity", the abstract of the paper doesn't mention it. Though trying to compress a planet sized mass to the size of a vessel is still pretty impossible with our current technology.

>>12788658
>Yeah I always joke that if you pay each politicians 100k we would get help from everymen living in the EU
I wish we could just pay the politicians whatever they want to fuck off. It would be cheaper than the damage they do trying to make their mark

>>12788671
Q2 2021

>>12788671
Roughly a month from now.

>>12788680
He is not wrong - reusable rockets harm the economy.
Think of the environmental impact too. Do we really want more industry and pollution? Do we want to... spread this disease to another world?

>>12788671
Next month probably

>>12788680
> we are not building a TATA

>>12788682
Here's the actual paper if anyone with a large enough brain can dissect it.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.06824#:~:text=The%20Alcubierre%20warp%20drive%20is,has%20been%20widely%20considered%20unphysical.

>>12788690
Fun fact still waiting for answer of a mega industrial complex some of my costumers want.
1 year waiting and a dozens of diffrent people I had to writte to so far.

Stop talking shit about ESA youre making me have to come up with all sorts of mental gymnastics

>>12788676
I look forward to Euros getting their own men to space without using Soyuz or American vehicles.
That should be soon, right?

>>12788702
Then accept it's shit already.
t. Euro

>>12788676
>he says while America makes starships and Europe abolishes african borders

>>12788704
>ESA is shitty
make it whole EU pls

>>12788704
I can tell youre German by your defeatist attitude

>>12788704
Nobody claimed otherwise.

>>12788702
also if some englishfag could grammar check this post

>>12788702
Yuropoor here talking shit about ESA.

Arguably... I talk shit about everyone besides the muskrat who also happens to be the sole entity in the world talking about colonization.

Nobody else promises that. Just handwaving about meme "space science", whatever that is.

>>12788702
It is shit, just like everything else done by committee.
Whenever NASA does shit by committee it also turns into turds, see SLS.

Unfortunately, ESA does everything by committee.

>>12788700
nope haven't got a clue

>>12788658
>Ecoactivists
Kill them. Kill them all.
I heavily suspect many of these watchdog groups are state and corporate funded by entities employing them as vandals.

>>12788735
No good people would be killed. They are more self centred than the avrage lefty

>>12788697
Yes.

>>12788703
There are so few Estronauts that developing a human-rated vessel is not economically justified.
Also most countries except Germany are broke. The French, who are the second pillar of the ESA, are not going through their best moment. Southern countries are literally bankrupt.
This is CCCP 2.0