/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12771805
What does this say about dolphins though ?

>>12771805
pic related humans were monogamous before agriculture. At the advent of agriculture 1 man had children with 17 different women and the other men didn't reproduce.

>>12771808
It says nothing as it is not compared to their body weight like it is in OP's pic

>>12771815
Or maybe Pippy here is actually the deadliest carnivore in the ocean, he is just good at hiding it

>>12771805
The reason we stopped getting bigger is because women can't push out bigger heads. It has nothing to do with diet.

>>12771808
Nothing, humans have larger prefrontals than bottlenose dolphins

What you should be asking is what it means for orcas, which are one of only 2 animals on earth to have a prefrontal 3x as large as a humans.

>>12771885
then why not more wrinkles in the brain?

>>12771869
Definitely couldn't have had such a big brain relative to body size while being a herbivore.

>>12771885
Wrong and it didn't just stop, it DROPPED.

Ok now show me the population growth of non whites in the US.

>>12771885
>>12771904
It didn't stop due to birth complications OR eating grains

The advent of agriculture AND livestock dumbed us down due to the loss of selection pressures. Reproduction stopped being about survival and started being about peacocking and social ladders, which led to the creation of modern societal heirarchies.

>>12771896
Orcas are deadly predators
Of course, if they were smarter than us, we would be the ones doing funny dances at SeaWorld for them

>>12771930
Orcas are poor bastards, their fatal flaw is that them niggas got no hands

>>12771885
Wrong

>>12771925
So agriculture as OP said you dumbfuck

>Reproduction stopped being about survival and started being about peacocking and social ladders
Lol that is fucking stupid. So peacocking and social ladders led to decreased height and brain size relative to body bass

>>12771958
Humans got smaller cause we didn't need any of that anymore dipshit. It all became about bigger dicks and suave faggots

>>12771944
What the fuck is this an image of? How does change in climate have anything to do with women being too small to shit out heads that are too big?

>>12771975
People get smaller when they starve, look at north korea

>>12771975
>>12771980
Smaller people are literally superior and there will only be small people in the future (men, women will be tall).

>>12771987
>Smaller people are literally superior
look at this manlet here coping

>>12771989
Cope.
There will literally only be small men in the future buddy.

>>12771978
People aren't born with mature head size.
>>12771980
Wrong.

>>12771993
>There will literally only be small men in the future buddy.
Not me or my kids who will dominate all the vegan manlets.

>>12771995
>Wrong.
Prove it

>>12772006
>Not me or my kids who will dominate all the vegan manlets.
You and your kids will be overrun by superior soldiers who both outnumber and outqualify you.
Large people are inefficient and obsolete. They cost more resources and they are less effective at surviving and dominating in modern and future society.

>>12771805
brain size does not correlate with intelligence

>>12772015
>You and your kids will be overrun by superior soldiers who both outnumber and outqualify you.
Haha cope. My tall and genius carnivore kids will lead the small brain vegan masses.

>Large people less effect at dominating
Haha you get dominated all the time by big chads

>>12772029
Relative to body mass it does

>>12772035
Cope and wrong buddy.
A nation of genetically modified super intelligent gnomes will completely overrun your society. They will require fewer resources to run a superior military.
In the same way the invention of the bow and spear rendered human size irrelevant for hunting and allowed us to dominate and conquer inferior larger animals, the invention of firearms, factory farming and the military industrial complex has rendered large size in humans obsolete and ineffective.
You aren't intelligent so you're still thinking like a caveman. You will not survive the game of natural selection.

>>12771805
If we were the most intelligent 7-15k years ago, then where is their mathematical achievements? Ancient mathematical knowledge should have completely outclassed modern knowledge, even just 2k years ago when we were supposedly more intelligent.

>>12772049
Haha lol you're so wrong coping manlet

>>12772098
I work in the labs buddy. This is what we're working toward.
Sorry you can't handle the truth.

>>12772101
Yeah right so do I

>>12772089
Honestly I think it's because we are just more people.

>>12772089
>most intelligent
retard

>>12772105
No, you don't.

>>12772117
I mean, that's not how it works really. There are over a billion people in Africa, yet they absolutely zero mathematical achievement. Just adding more people doesn't really increase the number of mathematicians, just like how Jews are over-represented as only 1% of the population.

>>12772135
Yes I do. No you don't

>>12772136
Because they are starving in Africa you know

>>12772138
You wouldn't be disagreeing with me and you wouldn't have an irrational hatred of veganism if you weren't a retard who learned popsci off alt right websites.
You're not fooling anyone.

>>12772149
Oh now you're projecting you vegan manlet

>>12772154
Cope buddy.
You can't stop evolution.

>>12772156
Sure devolve as much as you like. Become a slave species to big brain chads

>>12772159
There will be no intelligence advantage.
You are literally just creating a nation of people who are worse soldiers, worse workers, and require exponentially more resources to maintain.
This is not optimal. It can not outcompete an actual optimized population.
Some large males may be kept around as fighting beasts to be put into tournaments for entertainment for the superior gnome master race, I guess.

>>12772143
Ok, even China has over a billion people, theoretically they should make up every single mathematical prize winner, but they don't.

>>12772199
There is and will. And they will herd all other vegan brainlet nations and use them for slave labour.

>>12772040
Only in regards to animals of similar size to humans due to measurement bias. Animals require a larger and larger quotient the smaller they get, and a smaller and smaller quotient the larger they get.

>>12772089
They literally invented the concepts of farming, society animal husbandry, writing, etc.

>>12772143
There's a reason they're starving in the most resource rich continent on earth

>>12772343
"require" lol
Look at encephalization quotient if you want something better

>>12772360
That's what I'm referencing numbnuts. Encephalization takes into account the entire brain, which is a flawed measurement. The brain grows alongside the body due to the regions of the brain that control the body (ie cerebellum) needing to grow in tandem. An elephant's brain is literally 95% cerebellum. The prefrontal does not need to grow to match nesrly as much and thus size skews the quotient results. A proper measurement of intelligence potential would focus specifically on the prefrontal cortex, which places humans in 3rd behind pilot whales and orcas.

>>12771805
Humans are getting taller not shorter. Your sources are garbage

>>12771808
Maybe humanity is the midwit stuck between the moron chimpcels and alpha high IQ cetacean chads.

Anarcho-primitivist right again?

>>12772371
You're fucking dumb if you think prefrontal cortex is everything. Go make your own number if you're so convinced.

>>12772389
In the last century we are heightwise reverting back to were we were before agriculture. Never gave a source on anything related to height, look it up yourself midwit

>>12772348
>farming, society animal husbandry, writing
The only real achievement there is written word, but that has nothing to do with math, which we've continually shown to be one of the most g loaded subjects.

I think written word is the indicator here, without it you can't even have advanced mathematics in the first place. Our brain have evolved to be smaller because we've exported raw memorization ability to written word, there is no need to remember every single word in English, or every single theorem required to prove fermat's last theorem straight from the axioms.

>>12772482
lol now the written word is why we have small brains.
Get tf out of here and your city and try to invent farming from scratch. No modern bs with domesticated seeds and shit

>>12772511
It's not hard. Just observe that if you spread the seed of desirable plants more than others, then you'll have more desirable plants next year.

>>12772525
Go fucking it. Prove to us it isn't that hard. Prove to us they could have done it millions of years ago.

>>12772539
No.

>>12772455
It lines up pretty fucking well actually, better than a system that was devised in the fucking 1890's and is several decades behind other fields thanks to still-standing stigma from eugenics. Encephalization is outdated science; an incredibly rough measurement born from limitations and a lack of understanding of the complexities of the brain. There are a number of different types AND sizes of neuron spread out over the animal kingdom that makes mass measures worthless beyond a rough measure, which objectively is all the encephalization quotient is.

I have a little number system called taking the raw neuron/mass value of the prefrontal cortex, and that's it. You get cetaceans at the top, mixed in with a handful of lonely land mammals like humans and elephants, and then you start getting the highly intelligent birds a bit farther down. It's raw, but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than encephalization, and the data can actually be used in conjuction with other data, such as the actual types of neurons in specific regions of the prefrontal, to actually start to figure out what specific animal brains might be capable of.

You are right that there is more to it than just raw neurons, which is why you ask WHY specific animals like cetaceans have significantly stronger raw brain power, and what the fuck they are using it for, and what similarities intelligent animals have, that some others don't that can help drive research. If you want a hint, the answer is vocal communication driving complex language development, which inherently requires the development of advanced pattern recognition. What humans have that birds and cetaceans don't is hands.

>>12772482
>only achievement there is written word.
I will bet you $1 million if you can successfully start a farm from wild plants with zero access to books, internet, or any other outside information

>>12771805
The drop is humans losing their need for vision/hearing/smell/etc. Because we don't hunt anymore, so the sensory parts of the brain are shrinking. People who go to the shithole jungle tribes can tell you first hand they they can basically see and hear a pin drop from a mile away.

>>12771810
More men than women reproduced in ancient east asia? How is that possible?

>>12773037
Women with multiple husbands

>>12771930
They're smart enough and empathetic enough to realize civilization would only lower their quality of life

>>12771958
I dont get how you don't see he's right. One example involves the actual execution of superiority while the other is executing the illusion of superiority.

>>12773037
>>12773040
nvm, just noticed the scales are different

>>12771896
If they cannot create fire then their intelligence is useless.

name one thing in meat that you can't get from a modern plant based diet + supplements?

>>12772049
>has rendered large size in humans obsolete and ineffective.
>You aren't intelligent so you're still thinking like a caveman

But women still act on primitive instincts and most displays of social dominance don't involve computer code and drone strikes.

>>12771896
What is the other one?

>>12773393
pilot whales. whales/porpoises/etc. are rediculously smart, most reasonably because of the extreme methods needed to move about and communicate in the ocean. it's virtually impossible to communicate meaningfully with another whale/porpoise/etc. through anything but sound, so they naturally gravitate towards verbal communication, and thus their brains get big.

>>12773611
If they're so smart, why aren't they smart? Like at all? They're dumb as fuck by almost any metric.

>>12773381
If you arrange your society based on women's primitive instincts you're admitting that you're a brainlet that is going to be left behind.
Women can be modified to like smallness in males. This is not outside of possibility, there are already women in our society who prefer to be larger than men (rare, about 4% of women have this preference).

>>12773064
Fuck I never thought about this.

Imagine the freedom of being able to swim up and down, explore the oceans and eat delicious seals every day.

Now compare this to the average human life. Who's the smart creature now?

>>12773633
who the fuck told you whales were stupid? is it because they don't have tools? how the fuck are they supposed to have tools with nothing but fins in an endless floating void of water? the very concept of a tool to them would be an extreme mental abstraction, and that they can do it at all is pretty fucking impressive.

you know if you think about it, dolphins/orcas have both a language AND echolocation, so couldn't their communication method literally involve sending echolocation sound-images towards each other?

imagine being able to send the dick you hate a crude sound-image of you fucking his mom, beamed directly into his brain.

>>12773682
Why get all defensive? You're a fucking whale aren't you?

>>12773718

>>12771908
This.
>start including all subspecies as humans
>LOOK EVERYONE WE HAVE SMALL BRAINS
...

>>12771805
I just realized this chart lists neanderthals as having smaller brains than homo-sapiens, which is categorically false. they always had larger brains than humans.

>>12773761
It's in cc, not absolute brain size

>>12773354
B12, creatine, D3, carnosine, DHA, heme iron, taurine.

>>12773094
because being less intelligent makes it even harder to maintain the illusion of superiority.

>>12773745
>on sci
>doesnt know what a subspecies is

>>12771805
Built for the BBC

Big Brain Case

>>12772212
*blocks your path*

>>12773139
They live underwater nigga

>>12772049
based

>>12771805
>Homo sapiens sapiens above Neanderthals
Cope

>>12772049
Good luck passing on those manlet genes when no woman will have sex with a guy shorter than 5'10"

>>12771885
Than we need to breed for platter asses

>>12775172
Every rule has at least 1 exception. Truth is, for every Tao there's probably at least 10 jews who did work either comparable or even greater.

>>12777157
Modern women's preferences aren't important. The preferences for women of the future can and will be modified.
I'm talking about genetically modifying the species from the top down. Why would women's sexual preferences be relevant at all?

>>12777257
And you think rich people will have designer babies with manlet genes? And that women won't have any say in this?

>>12777257
We're not genetically modifying anyone any time soon.

>>12777299
If rich people or women have designer babies that are physically large, all they're doing is straining their nation/state and rendering their population as a whole noncompetitive against a more authoritarian state that actually optimizes their population properly.
They will not actually have an advantage in terms of intelligence or control of resources or military capability. There is no advantage other than that women tend to find larger men more attractive, which doesn't actually matter and isn't even universally true. Women can be made to find smallness in males attractive so the only "advantage" that they have isn't even relevant.
Meanwhile the actual physical efficiency of a nation of small people is a real advantage. They will use exponentially fewer resources to have the same quality of life and military/research/economic output. There is no disadvantage.
As I said before, if you're talking about organizing society around modern women's sexual preferences, you're a caveman who's going to be left behind.
>>12777321
5 years.

>>12777321

>>12777340
Dude your society of manlets will collapse. Just look at the degeneracy we have right now and the increase in polygamy.

>>12771808
Extra wrinkly too, shame they have no opposable thumbs.
Although clans of super intelligent sea rapists sound pretty bad ngl.

>>12777362
Why will it collapse? Society is shit now because humans are a tournament selective male larger mammal species, and humans are still programmed to be polygamous and women are attracted to dominant large males. This causes male on male competition which develops into larger societal problems. Literally everything wrong with society comes down to this.
Eliminating that preference will make society more stable, not less. Making everyone small and monogamous will be better for society, not worse.

>>12771896
That they’re alien sea wizards that you can communicate telepathically with by doing ketamine next to them.

>>12777340
Even if we do somehow pass legislation legalizing it, go through clinical trials, and so forth, our current tools like CRISPR are fundamentally flawed. Human zygotes are really, really complicated in comparison to plant species that we regularly modify now. Also, even if we were successful in using and operating CRISPR, it's essentially like using a hacksaw to trim your fingernails. Some "desirable" genes, which would increase intelligence, height or whatever have massive sites of linkage disequilibrium surrounding them, and linkage disequilibrium exists for a reason.
>https://www.ebi.ac.uk/gwas/variants/rs613872
for instance this gene (which I carry personally) is in linkage disequilibrium with around 50 other SNPs, all of which you'd have to include as well, or else you're going to skyrocket the risk of various mental disorders, schizophrenia, ect. Then making so many cuts in the genome is problematic, you're going to give people cancer or trigger cyto-toxicity.

>>12777386
Society is shit because of agriculture but was countered with religion and social norms that enforced monogamy. All of that is breaking down right now.
And why will your dream society be stable? Honestly you sound just like when Marx, Lenin, Mao and all the other communists preached their utopia just like yours.
>This causes male on male competition which develops into larger societal problems.
You think you will have a productive society without competition? You can in part thank competition for everything good in your life.

>>12777402
Mammalian diploid cells are more difficult to work with but we're not going to stop.
~5 years we will have complete control over the human genome and we will be able to basically engineer any phenotypical trait that we want into people.
It's coming anon.
>>12777431
>Society is shit because of agriculture
Society exists because of agriculture.
>was countered with religion and social norms that enforced monogamy.
How is that a good thing? Forcing people (women) into social institutions that they don't want isn't fair to them and only builds up resentment. Then you get the modern situation we're in.
Women do not choose to have the sexuality that they have, it isn't their fault. But that doesn't mean it can be allowed to continue. Women's sexuality fundamentally comes down to needing men to physically hurt and dominate each other in order for them to be aroused. This can NOT be allowed to continue if we want a future in a sophisticated, stable, technocratic society.
Women need to genuinely enjoy being financially superior, physically larger, and monogamous with men. Otherwise all that will happen is women will be depressed because "where are all the good men" and men en masse become incels. AND IT DOES IT ALL FOR EXPONENTIALLY MORE RESOURCES.
That is NOT stable, anon. It is inferior, objectively.

>>12777387
Based John Lilly but wasn't it LSD?
His ketamine trips were a different venture I'm sure

>>12775134
it's a lot easier to execute superiority when the people you are superior over are inherently inferior grain-munchers who grovel at your feet. did you ever wonder where the separation of classes came from?

>>12777477
>Society exists because of agriculture.
Wrong, only larger societies do and the quality per person is less. And we can go back from plant agriculture now.
> Forcing people (women) into social institutions that they don't want isn't fair to them and only builds up resentment.
Simp
>we want a future in a sophisticated, stable, technocratic society.
Yeah it's not going to happen with yours. Sorry mate.
>Women need to genuinely enjoy being financially superior, physically larger
Wtf is wrong with you?

>>12777719
>Wrong, only larger societies do and the quality per person is less
We can support a larger society with a higher quality of person as well. This is technocracy. What do you mean "we can go back from plant agriculture"? You actually expect to produce a superior population by only farming and feeding them meat?
That requires exponentially more energy and resources only to buy a smaller population.
>Simp
How is that being a simp? Women are half the population, they have the right to be happy and they need to be for social stability just like men. The problem is what women are attracted to is no longer stable and is in fact inferior. That needs to be updated.
>Yeah it's not going to happen with yours. Sorry mate.
Yes it is, you're arguing against farming and resource optimization. Just saying "it isn't going to work" doesn't mean anything. You're just mad because you have an aesthetic preference against what I'm talking about. You have this weird incel fantasy about a bunch of "chad" carnivore dudes running around with harems of women who don't have rights.
Humanity will inevitably become what I'm talking about. Your vision will not be able to compete.
>Wtf is wrong with you?
Nothing.
You're saying that a society of fewer people who need to eat more because they're larger and they don't even invest into modern industrialized agriculture AND they oppress half their population is somehow going to be able to compete with a sophisticated genetically modified race of super intelligent monogamous plant eaters who survive off significantly fewer resources and have superior military capabilities.
You're wrong and coping.

>>12777824
>We can support a larger society with a higher quality of person as well.
That has been the whole fucking point of agriculture. More quantity of poor quality people to support maybe top 5% of people to be of quality. Abysmal really.
>This is technocracy
No
>You actually expect to produce a superior population by only farming and feeding them meat?
Yes
>That requires exponentially more energy and resources only to buy a smaller population.
It's a better, higher quality population
> Just saying "it isn't going to work" doesn't mean anything.
I'm saying your whole manlet society and genetic solution to females won't stand. Basic game theory will stop it just like communism.
>You're just mad because you have an aesthetic preference against what I'm talking about.
Philosophy of aesthetics is king
>running around with harems of women who don't have rights.
No I don't, I dream of monogamous pre-agricultural society.
>Yes it is, you're arguing against farming and resource optimization.
And how many harvests do you have left huh? 60? 100? You know people are getting more and more ill, it's all the carbs and seed oils you know. The healthcare industry is more of a resource drain than farming is right now.

Dude your gnome army will suck and kill you and each other before you even make them do anything.

>>12777890
>I'm saying your whole manlet society and genetic solution to females won't stand. Basic game theory will stop it just like communism.
I don't understand what you mean by this.

>>12777321 >>12777351 >>12777340
West is late for the Party

China is already ahead in
Human Genetic Modification

https://youtu.be/b0HvLaXOhEY

https://youtu.be/-GXP9xn0UHk

https://youtu.be/C7-_pKnCW-k

https://youtu.be/th0vnOmFltc

He was arrested and criticized (by academia & media).
So his Mad-science research was officially halted.
However China's military is definitely secretly continuing it.

>>12777321 >>12777351 >>12777340

>>12778564
>>12778573
Watch, those twins are going to contract a neuroblastoma or some other brain cancer at a young age, I'm calling it now. The european genepool has had a couple thousand years to adapt to the CCR5 gene, you can't just add it to full asians willy-nilly and expect everything to turn out alright.

>>12778750
No but their just .test subjects. We used to use plants like that many years ago to evolve now and now we have it completed. This is all in the testing we'll either get it right while we live or die before getting it right. Either way we will benefit from this down the line.

>>12777890
>>12778463
>Pre-agriculture
We will probably not be able to advance without a large functioning society so our current must fall for this to be realized.
>monogamous
we don't have a polygamous society at best a mixed.
Also the other guys point is that removing the 'preference' for women would create a monogamous society
> I'm saying your whole manlet society and genetic solution to females won't stand. Basic game theory will stop it just like communism.
ehh doesn't stop it from being a dream we should idolized. Even women want this those that acknowledge they should like who they like.
>-for the other dude gnome vegan army
efficiently should not be replaced for effectiveness and preferences. So lets go with
tall to average height army with a touch of genetic modification down the line because if we introduce the point of genetic modification then we could change so much more then just height, brain power, intelligent and preferences

>>12777477
>~5 years we will have complete control over the human genome and we will be able to basically engineer any phenotypical trait that we want into people.
You are kidding yourself if you think that we will acquire full genetic control within this century. Despite having our genome mapped out, we still don't know the function of every protein, nor do we know all of the molecular and epigenetic factors that alter the function and structure of said proteins. Even if we were handed perfect tools that modified our genome however we wanted (which would require something akin to nanomachines), it would still take years for us to fully comprehend our genetic and molecular biology, not to mention all of the moral and ethical concerns which you can't realistically ignore. I'm not claiming that we won't be genetically modifying humans during the next decade, I'm just pointing out the fact that your expectations are unreasonably optimistic.

>>12778573
it turned out they weren't resistant to AIDS at all and he was arrested for fraud, I wonder how much of it was actually legit, China seems interested but if their reputation says anything it will just be a bunch of doctors who cheated to get into med school leading the charge

>>12775173
and we live above water we still manage to go underwater when we feel like it

>>12771808
>brain looks like a pair of testicles
No wonder they must always rape.

>>12771978
It's the lower graph that's important, the upper one is just for context.

Wow this is some next level autism. The anon here wants everyone to look exactly the same for "stability" and to eliminate competition. God I'm glad I have the ability to dominate others, otherwise we'd be at the mercy of retarded faggots like you and your stupid desires.
>everyone same height, genderless, same face
Actually terrifying. What in the fuck happened to you that you want something so awful? Fuck that's like some neo horror or something. Are you actually serious?

OOOOOOooOOAAaaaAAA MONKE ENCEPHALIZATION QUOTIENT COPE. GO BACK TO THE FUCKING TREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.
WITH THREE TIMES AS MANY SYNAPSES AS THE HUMAN BRAIN
2.5 AS MANY NEURONS AS THE HUMAN BRAIN
9 TIMES AS MANY GLIAL CELLS IN THE NEOCORTEX
BOW DOWN TO YOUR SEMENDEMONOVERLORDS. CLICK CLICK MOTHER FUCKER.

>>12771896
Good man.
Cetaceans are the superior clade.

>>12771805
>never seen before polygamy and degeneracy explode
Shut up bitch people like you have been saying this like that assyrian priest that wrote how this degenerate world is coming to an end soon, 6000 years ago.

Fallacious thread based on lies and someones false believes gets another +100 responses

>>12771805
>average height and brain size drops like a rock
>drops like a rock

Just completely false lies again.

https://phys.org/news/2021-03-human-brain-grew-result-extinction.html

>>12778750
Wow that is very anti race mixing anon.

>>12771805

Youre an idiot and need to go back to /pol/

>>12771805
Carnivore hunter lifestyle is not sustainable. Eventually the big game became rare or extinct because of us. We had to hunt smaller and even smaller animals which increased our brain size. It's speculated that the Neanderthalers died out because they didn't switch to agricultural and husbandary lifestyles. Homo sapiens had to switch to this in order to continue survivng and thriving.

Watch this video on why we supposedly only use a small percentage of our brain instead of a 100%, things will make more sense for you.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5NubJ2ThK_U

Also lab grown meat is getting more developed and researched. Really looking forward to this instead of the needless and inefficient, expensive, filthy mass slaughter of lower species that strenghtens the chaos gods.

>>12779578
>Also lab grown meat
I'm willing to consider that hunting animals may potentially provide nutrients you could be mussing otherwise, but it's entirely impossible that anything artificially geown or raised could provide such, as the animal (or tissue) can only receive the nutrients provided to it, which could likely be obtained more effectively by direct consumation. The animal has no ability to roam and look for its own sources of nutrition. (which could indirectly provide some nutrient overlooked by people otherwise)

>>12779578
>Also lab grown meat
I'm willing to consider that hunting animals may potentially provide nutrients you could be missing otherwise, but it's entirely impossible that anything artificially grown or raised could provide such, as the animal (or tissue) can only receive the nutrients provided to it, which could likely be obtained more effectively by direct consumption. The animal has no ability to roam and look for its own sources of nutrition. (which could indirectly provide some nutrient overlooked by people otherwise)

>>12771805
>Tries making a scientific argument
>Brings up "muh degeneracy"
>Brings up "bigger brain=bigger intelligence" myth

Just rename this board /pseudosci/ at this point tbqh

>>12779653
>bigger brain=bigger intelligence" myth
>myth
The encephalization quotient is just bullshit monke cope.
Fucking kneel to your Spermwhale overlords you dumb monkey OOooOooAAaAAoOAAA GO BACK TO THE FUCKKINGNG TREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS

>>12771901
Because there is no more evolutionary pressure to warrant an increase in brain surface area or size. In human populations it's pretty safe to throw natural selection out the window, and people with slightly smaller brains or who have brains with less surface area will continue to reproduce since there is no natural force that will actively select against smaller brains.

Human civilization has essentially halted most classic forms of natural selection besides disease. There's no longer a higher chance of survival or reproductive success that comes with being naturally more intelligent and intuitive, since there aren't fucking tigers waltzing around eating retards who don't know how to fashion a spear or outsmart an animal.

>>12772035
>Thinking primal displays will lead to power in a post-natural selection civilization

Don't get me wrong, eating well and working out are good for you, but this isn't the stone age anymore. Wealth, merit, and intelligence are the only relevant languages of power.

>>12779598
>(which could indirectly provide some nutrient overlooked by people otherwise)
I don't understand, are you saying we don't really know what nutrients are inside real mass slaughtered or hunted animal meat?

>>12779578
>Carnivore hunter lifestyle is not sustainable.
Bullshit propaganda

>>12779698
Yes

>>12772539
>Fruits, nuts, and vegetables evolve tantalizing colors, tastes, and aromas over the course of millions of years, tailored directly to entice animals to eat the fruit and spread the seeds

I'd argue that agriculture is a pretty primal and ingrained idea in us, it was just a matter of improved pattern detection over time that (probably) came with the development of linguistic systems that we actually could act on and create agriculture.

The whole point of fruits in nature is a big fucking neon sign saying "EAT ME AND SPREAD MY SEEDS!" so I don't think it's correct to say agriculture was some sort of one-off genius invention thing. More like a logical next step in understanding that is innate with pattern detection.

>>12779714
Not enough animals. We will have to resort to cannibalism and when the human population is low again perhaps animal populations will grow in large quantities again and humans don't. Something to keep us growing out of control and the big animal populations in balance. It will be an endless cycle of primitive like humans with little industry, cities, universities since there's not enough of us and we'll never advance fast on technological fields. After a few million years we'd become extinct and then half a billion year later oxygen disappears.

>>12775060
>B12
Can be sourced from various fungi, algae such as seaweed, and quite a few different grains.
>Creatine
Not sure if b8 but the human body literally creates creatine in the kidneys with readily available amino acids
>Vitamin D3
Vitamin D3 is produced in the skin from 7-dehydrocholesterol, just by chilling in the sun. If you are worried about vitamin D2, that is abundant in plant sterols.
>Carnosine
One of the few things that really can't be found in plants. Pretty appropriately named kek. Human body does make it in small amounts from free amino acids, but higher intake is healthy for muscle integrity and removing plaques in the brain.
>Heme
Literally a carcinogenic, free-radical fuckfest of a molecule. There is no heath benefits to ingesting heme. It's an oxidant and takes a lot more energy to use as a source of iron.
>Iron
Quite a few beans and legumes have iron levels on par with red meat, with the added benefit of no carcinogenic heme groups involved.
>Taurine
Another amino acid the human body makes naturally. Benefits of increasing taurine intake is pretty spotty at best. There's a lot of conflicting studies involving athletic performance and workout vitality, but I wouldn't really trust these studies as they involved energy drinks with taurine as an ingredient, where caffeine would obviously skew results. Taurine is a component of bile salts though which will help to break down high cholesterol, fatty foods. But if you're eating your greens, you wouldn't need to break down much fat right ;)

A lot of these myths about plants not being able to produce micronutrients that meats do can be dispelled pretty easily if you understand even a bit of basic biochemistry and bioaccumulation in different trophic levels

>>12779658
Retarded looking animal that I am smarter than.

>>12779482
You have and will continue to live in a world where you are dominated by forces and people in shadows and far away who you can't control who may be physically weaker than you. Don't think you're hot shit or top of the food chain by a long shot.

>>12779698
This>>12779716 wasn't me, but I agree with the answer. I in fact believe that the "epidemic" of nearsightedness is caused by an unrecognized nutrient deficiency, I'm ready to start an experiment as soon as the chemical arrives.

>>12779750
Can be sourced from various fungi, algae such as seaweed, and quite a few different grains.
When is the last time you saw some eat algae? Most vegans are B12 deficient and you're not going to get enough of these mushrooms year around.
>Not sure if b8 but the human body literally creates creatine in the kidneys with readily available amino acids
Just because your body makes it doesn't mean you get enough. Also your body creating something isn't free you know.
>Vitamin D3 is produced in the skin from 7-dehydrocholesterol, just by chilling in the sun. If you are worried about vitamin D2, that is abundant in plant sterols.
And vegans don't get good cholesterol and burn more often in the sun than meat eaters. D2 is shit and D3 is superior and you can't get enough of that in the winter. Only by eating meat.
>One of the few things that really can't be found in plants. Pretty appropriately named kek. Human body does make it in small amounts from free amino acids, but higher intake is healthy for muscle integrity and removing plaques in the brain.
Correct, and again if your body makes something it isn't free and your body doesn't make enough.
>Literally a carcinogenic, free-radical fuckfest of a molecule. There is no heath benefits to ingesting heme. It's an oxidant and takes a lot more energy to use as a source of iron.
That is absolute bullshit vegan cope. It's the exact opposite, read up on it again.
>Quite a few beans and legumes have iron levels on par with red meat, with the added benefit of no carcinogenic heme groups involved.
See heme again.
>Another amino acid the human body makes naturally.
See again, your body doesn't make it for free and your body doesn't make enough of it.

You didn't look at DHA.
Also your vegan food doesn't have vitamin A. Only inferior beta-carotene which your body has to convert in a costly process to vitamin A. A lot of people can't even convert it. Eat liver.

>>12778463
>I don't understand what you mean by this.
Nobody wants to do anything in your shit society. It will be degenerate and collapse before you even amount to do anything with it. People won't even join it to begin with because they see how shit it is and will become

>>12779535
>Just completely false lies again.
>https://phys.org/news/2021-03-human-brain-grew-result-extinction.html
Literally fucking read what you link to: "As humans moved into permanent settlements and became farmers, their brain size decreased to its current volume of 1300-1400cc."

>>12779578
>Carnivore hunter lifestyle is not sustainable. Eventually the big game became rare or extinct because of us.
Correct, but we can just eat cows really.

>>12779688
>this isn't the stone age anymore. Wealth, merit, and intelligence are the only relevant languages of power.
That's basically what selected for in the stone age

>>12779816
It's mostly explained by us being indoors and looking at things up close

>>12779862
Nope. Those people (Jake Steiner, etc. ) likely obtained the nutrient by accident. I tried and it just doesn't work.

>>12779868
What's the nutrient then?

>>12779817
>and quite a few different grains.
Forgot to say grains only have trace amount

>>12779872
I won't tell until I'm finished testing it.
It seems we adopted some food plantss (such as mustard) specifically for their high amount of this nutrient. But it seems to be only semi essential for the plants themselves, (participating in what seems like some kind of stress response) and it comes from the soil, so the amounts are declining and no longer sufficient.

>>12779907
I call bullshit

>>12779817
Most of these arguments are pretty contingent on environmental factors that are either limited in scope or can be circumvented by technology. D3 is produced by ultraviolet rays alone, which can penetrate clouds easily unless you really are in some heavy arctic condition, which most of the human population is not. Seasonally limited veggies like the mushrooms you mentioned can be easily grown in greenhouses and artificial environments year round.

Also of note is that while the amino acids the body makes isn't "free" obviously , they're made pretty simply through transamination reactions from glutamate products, sourced from the citric acid cycle which only needs water, acetyl CoA, and oxaloacetate which you can get from eating pretty much fuckin anything.

Dehydrocholesterol is a cholesterol precursor btw, its presence has nothing really to do with how much actual cholesterol you are consuming.

Heme is bad for you in excess, no way around it. The body makes as much heme as it needs to function and will try to maintain homeostasis to avoid oxidative stress. "Free" hemes which are unbound from proteins in red meat upon cooking and enter the body upon ingestion. These free hemes sort of float around the body unchecked and the iron atom will catalyze oxidative reactions, where the iron atom will just rip the electron away from the nearest and weakest bond it can find. Obviously this is bad news when you introduce a bunch of this stuff into your body. Not to mention heme is incredibly fat soluble, and can really start to accumulate in fat, and even fuck with the phospholipid bilayer of individual cells and do all sorts of nasty shit like clogging cell diffusion channels and create cytotoxic compounds.

I agree that supplementing your body with extra help might be needed sometimes, but heme is seriously not good stuff. If anything I'd say try to eat more chicken and white meats instead of red meat just because of how much heme is in red meats.

>>12779927
Also>>12779817 , cheers for at least not making the retarded "how will you get enough protein" argument that I hear a lot of self proclaimed carnivores spout

>>12779913
I understand that. We'll see.

>>12779927
>D3
Bullshit, a huge percentage of people are vitamin D deficient, not just people near the poles.

You body doesn't make enough of all those things you say it can do on its own.

Read up on heme, you're completely wrong about it. It's complete bullshit what you're saying.

>>12779929
>cheers for at least not making the retarded "how will you get enough protein" argument that I hear a lot of self proclaimed carnivores spout
I can do that. Plant protein is shit. It's most often not complete and if it is the ratios are all wrong for your body. Meat protein is the most perfect protein there is.

>>12779758
YOU WILL NEVER BE A SPERM WHALE
KNEEL AND REPENT AND KILL YOURSELF AND HOPE YOURE BORN AS A SPERM WHALE. FUCKING MONKEEEEE BACK TO THE TREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSS

>>12779482
I never said everyone will look the same or have the same interests.
I said that we will be small and women won't care about male domination or competition for sexual attraction.

>>12779805
These retards are literally cavemen who unironically think being large makes them dominant, in a world where you can just shoot them in the head.
All being large does it waste resources.

>>12771885
We need bigger women then.

>>12780176
yes, and smaller men.
Which is what I've been arguing itt but everyone gets angry at the truth because it's a lot different from what they're used to.

>>12780185
Omg you want to gene edit giant women and manlets.
Why don't you just have the fantasy to make people in vats?

>>12780195
People in vats? I don't understand what you mean.

>>12780222
Vat-grown people.

>>12780227
An artificial womb that will develop a fetus from conception to birth is way more complicated, and it isn't even needed when women already make babies. There's nothing wrong with women having babies. The problem is that our bipedal bodies make it harder for them in comparison to the ungalates or whatever other four legged animal we compare our species too.
But big girls have an easier time with pregnancy. Short and fat women have more complications.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-05-31-vw-3408-story.html

>>12780245
You're so fucking contradictory
>wE nEeD mEn tU Be sMaLL fOr rESouRceS
>bUT wOmAN cAn Be BiG

>wE cAN gEnEeDiT pEoPlE tO bE aNyTHinG i wANt
>bUt vATs aRe tU DiFFcULt!

>>12780245
Omg I couldn't remember the term, but you're a macrophiliac

>>12780282
Neither women being slightly larger nor vats being difficult to build isn't in contradiction with anything I've said.

>>12780289
If you're imagining like a situation where women are huge and men are small that's not what I'm talking about.
Imagine men and women are all like around ~5 feet tall with women being slightly taller on average because it's a little more important for them in terms of reproduction.

>>12780297
You keep walking back.
So you want little grey aliens

>>12780303
I'm not walking back, I've been saying the same thing the whole time.
>So you want little grey aliens
It's funny you put it that way, yes basically that's what I'm talking about. I never really thought about it that way. Although not gray obviously.

>>12771805
>>become carnivore millions of years ago
>>brain size increases exponentially
nonsense right off the bat. climate change was the primary driver for human evolution, not diet (although the two are possibly interrelated). if you disagree, take it up with the smithsonian.

>>12780303
Are you a woman?

>>12780308
>Although not gray obviously.
Melanin is a waste of resources of course

>>12780312
>nonsense right off the bat. climate change was the primary driver for human evolution, not diet
Yeah lol right. There is not even a slight correlation between climate change and brain size. Been through hot climate and an ice age, that didn't change the exponential growth.

>>12780322
lmao

>>12780327
>exponential
i don't think you even know what that actually means
anyway the most recent idea is that viruses are the biggest drivers of human evolution. looking forward to getting my extra brain pack when covid is over.

>>12780282
You've gotten me to think actually. Making women quite a bit larger than men might be overall better, because women's resting metabolism is lower than a males of the same size/mass anyway so in terms of resource allocation they are more efficient with larger size but the increase in ease of reproduction is better than when women are smaller. We'd have to see if the slight offset in the slightly more resources given to make the woman bigger is made up by the ease and cost of reproduction.
Basically, is a bigger woman who might need to eat a little more but has an easier time reproducing overall more cost effective than a smaller one who may have a more difficult time reproducing? I don't think it would be better.

>>12780345
Yeah right climate, now viruses. Right out your ass

>>12780349
Wow Anon you've really thought this through.
You should go change the world with your novel ideas immediately before you die or it never happen. Just like Lenin and Mao did.

>>12780361
I'm going to, don't worry anon. Once the math shows how much better it is, everyone will jump on board in order to save their nation money and food. and energy.
I'm not a communist. Why do you hate me?

>>12780371
Yeah you are not going to be successful in building a mathematical model that will accurately predict the consequences of your proposals.
You make the same fallacies as communists and short sighted, narrow minded ideations

>>12771805
That is a bullshit study. The maximum sizes are higher than ever now. And the average sizes could be due to all sorts of pigmis being taken into the account (and maybe because only skulls of some great people were preserved, and the rest of people were recycled into nutricious bone powder)

>>12780393
The consequences of my proposals? What would that be, reducing food and energy production by a factor of 5?
It's not difficult. "two populations of 40 million people. In one, each individual requires 2500 calories a day. The other requires 1300. That's a difference in 400 billion dollars a year in terms of food production, without any loss in quality of life" (these numbers aren't the actual numbers it's an example). The United States spends like 1.7 trillion dollars a year on food production. That is ludicrous and can be drastically reduced by just, making it so people don't need to eat as much. (of course Americans are fat pieces of shit so it's more than it would be but still)
Then we also get into the fact that smaller people can live in smaller spaces with no loss of comfort, etc. Also they are better equipped for flying in spaceships and such.
"little gray aliens" are the future senpai.

>>12772482
None of that is how evolution works. It's not Lamarckian.

>>12771805
Goddam this board is filed with pseudo and red herrings.

Bigger brain also means bigger head, which requires a larger pelvis. Show me pelvis stats and you'll see why head circumference could not increase beyond a certain average.

>>12780476
We already went over this though anon. Please read through the thread.

>>12780351
yes, my ass and a major study by the genetics society of america
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160713100911.htm
nobody has ever believed that eating meat is the primary driver of evolution or brain size, except maybe the meat marketing board or whatever. if it was true, our brains would be the size of cars by now, since humans generally eat massively more meat than at any point in human history.

>>12780487
What a load of crap.
So you really think people ate less meat than before agriculture? Eat my ass

>>12780686
>What a load of crap.
please address your learned comments to the genetics society of america, i am sure they will publish them in their journal
>So you really think people ate less meat than before agriculture?
dude that sentence doesn't even make sense
>Eat my ass
ew that certainly wouldn't make anybody's brain grow bigger. i bet you haven't washed for weeks

So it turns out that the energy expenditure of large women is actually not high at all.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136178/
Turns out it's an amazon future, not a gray alien one.

>>12771885
holy god you fucking retard this is supposed to be a high iq board? fuck you fuck you shut the FUCK up

>>12780825
Your shit doesn't even say anything about brain or meat. Eat ass nigger and talk to any anthropologist

>>12780836
>However, women consume fewer kilojoules per kilogram lean mass and burn fat more preferentially during exercise compared with men. During gestation, women store even greater amounts of fat that cannot be solely attributed to increased energy intake.
The female body needs more of , especially during gestation.

>>12780866
That's literally the reason.

>>12780881
>greater amounts of fat that CANNOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO INCREASED ENERGY INTAKE
That's saying they store more fat even when not increasing energy intake. The paper is going over how women are more efficient at storing energy, they need less to operate given equivalent mass. They get more out of the food they digest than men do.

>>12771925
>Reproduction stopped being about survival and started being about peacocking and social ladders
at which you fail so who's the dumb one in this game?

>>12780904
It has nothing to do with energy, It's the lack of , which gets used up during gestation, and apparently female bodies need a bit more in general.

>>12780904
>>12780930
Obesity is caused by a lack of .

>>12771805
Average height has been increasing since agriculture.

Yes
Watch
https://youtu.be/TDMwjT4e3XM

>>12771925
>Reproduction stopped being about survival and started being about peacocking and social ladders
how is that not a selection process?
One that requires more complex thought than the other one, albeit a different form.

>>12780950
How does being able to smile like an idiot require more complex thought than designing a locomotive?

>>12780962
>people were designing locomotives at the start of agriculture

>>12780930
>>12780938
Where in the paper are you getting that women use more energy? Maybe there's another paper that goes over what youre saying because this one clearly states in the abstract
>"women consume fewer kilojoules per kilogram lean mass and burn fat more preferentially during exercise compared with men. During gestation, women store even greater amounts of fat that cannot be solely attributed to increased energy intake. These observations suggest that the relationship between kilojoules consumed and kilojoules utilized is different in men and women"
A man and a woman of the same weight, the women will need less energy to maintain their weight.
It then goes on to break down the difference in expenditure. Gestation increases daily caloric intake by about 15%, etc.
So it comes down to finding the optimization where size of the woman and birth canal is regressed against the amount of energy that's needed to maintain that body. We want big brains, so we need big birth canals, but we don't want to make women too big because that's a waste.

>>12780962
Also:
>strawmanning this hard
As if the ability to manage social relations wasn't an important sign of complexity among all high intelligence creatures.
Social climbing rquires:
>managing
>manipulating
>strategizing
>reading social, verbal and facial cues
>undertanding grand social patterns and exploiting them
Sure now a days just being handsome get's you a good advantage, but social life in early clans was brutal.

>>12780983
I'm saying it isn't about energy, I'm saying it's a lack of 48.

>>12781001
Social climbing got you kicked out or killed in pretty much any premodern society.

>>12781022
Avoiding getting killed was part of the process.

>>12780983
Or to stop the pretend mystery, the japanese fucked up in the 70's. Itai itai was caused by something else, cadmium is essential. It causes pretty much every disorder people get routinely blamed for.

>>12781016
lack of 48?

>>12781022
>Social climbing got you kicked out or killed in pretty much any premodern society.
Proof?

>>12781038
>>>>>12781037
cadmium = element number 48
Too much iron, calcium, salt and zinc impairs its absorptions and makes the symptoms worse.

>>12780866
>>12780878
lol i can tell you have a glittering scientific career ahead of you if this is how you react when someone shows you that your idiot ideas are wrong

>>12781126
What does this have to do with women requiring less calories per unit mass and therefore can be physically bigger for less food than men? I don't understand what you're talking about, sorry.

>>12781126
>>12781161
What I mean is, if what you're saying is true, women will still be more efficient in terms of energy absorption, so it doesn't change anything. In fact it would be better as we further reduce the amount of food required to produce.
I'm not understanding where your contention is.

>>12781161
Womens bodies apparently need more cadmium, especially during gestation, which leaves them obese afterwards.

>>12781072
>Proof?
Find me one that rejected honor.