/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12749782
bruh moment

>In 1986 there were still enough Apollo veterans floating around that, had anyone involved had the courage to declare Shuttle a total loss and permanently ground it, there is every chance that a rocket in the style of the Falcon 9 could have been human rated and operational by 1990, representing a genuine path to steady improvements in reusability and cost, and a commitment to fact-based reality as the program’s guiding star.

>Indeed this post isn’t intended to cheer endlessly for SpaceX but it is telling that with a tiny fraction of the time and money they, motivated by correct interrogation of the fundamental architectural questions, developed the F9 rocket and Dragon spacecraft, a launch system considerably less exotic than Shuttle and yet orders of magnitude cheaper, safer, and better performing.

>Today, we have a few dozen SSMEs left in warehouses, exquisite examples of 1970s-era tech, every bit as wonderful as a Faberge Egg. Fit for a museum, not a modern rocket. Are they reliable enough? No. But are they expendable? No. But are they at least affordable, because we already have them? Also no. The contractors involved are providing them for the SLS at a cost of $150m per engine.

>Let’s get this straight. We’re going to take these priceless antique reusable rocket engines and fly them once and drop them in the Atlantic Ocean. And the engines alone will cost us about the same as 10 Falcon 9 flights.

>>12749782
It blows my mind that we not only went to the Moon, but decided to bring a fucking rover just because we could

>>12749792
why wet workshop the oxygen tank when the extremely huge hydrogen tank is right there

>>12749793
fact-based and reality pilled

>>12749806
brilliant article and we all know the programs problems but to see it all collated is fucking draw dropping.
>Of course, it’s impossible to say for sure since the test parameters were nothing like the actual launch. What we know is that the SLS has at least one obscure failure mode that results in the engines shutting off for no immediately apparent reason. If this happened in flight, the axiomatically unsafe boosters would keep firing for a couple of minutes before the stack could pull apart and abort procedures occur. So, basically guaranteed total loss of mission, payload, and anyone riding it.

>>12749782
>tfw you will never drive a buggy on the moon
I was born too late to enjoy removing lunar regolith from my eyelids after fucking up a depressurizing incident...

>>12749801
based

>>12749793
The fucking state

>>12749793
Casey is extremely based.
For the unaware: https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2021/02/24/sls-is-cancellation-too-good/

>>12749793
Redpilled

>>12749810
This would be the article you're talking about yes?
https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2021/02/24/sls-is-cancellation-too-good/

>>12749828
that's it. required reading.

how to deal with the fact that both Moon and Mars are absolute wastelands even by celestial standards. Whats the future of space exploration? Is it a drone or a boat on Titan?

>Jim Bridenstine attempted to cleave SLS and Orion, suggesting Orion could be flown on Falcon Heavy. Senator Shelby of Alabama, home of MSFC, demanded his resignation. With VP Pence’s support, Jim swiftly backtracked and just barely kept his job. The SLS lived to fight another day

>>12749811
Your time will come anon, Starship is taking us all to the Moon, so to speak

>>12749834
I did not realize that this happened. We barely missed the worst timeline. What the hell is Shelby's problem?

>>12749834
I fucking HAATE shelby. I'm like the multivac from IHNMAIMS but focused on shelby specifically

>>12749834
Fuck this stupid rocket. Reminder that it was only a SIX YEAR DIFFERENCE between the first suborbital flight of Alan Shepard, and the maiden test flight of the Saturn V. FUCK THE SLS
https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2021/01/29/green-run-update-nasa-proceeds-with-plans-for-second-hot-fire-test/

>>12749834
Is there some way we can remove the Shelby?
Yes, from the Earth.
Seriously this cocksucker does nothing but form an impediment to spaceflight, he's an obstacle and nothing more. The greatest thing his heart could choose to do right now is stop beating.

>>12749834
I remember people saying pence cares about space travel too

>>12749841
>only a SIX YEAR DIFFERENCE
How our species has fallen

>>12749834
non burger here, when I hear about stuff like this, why is it, that it is always some states obstructing stuff like that?

>>12749846
Our government is corrupt from the bottom to the top. It's a self-correcting system which neutralizes all threats to itself, converting all new members or expelling them after a term or two if they won't play ball. There's no way to rectify such a machine, it can only dominate or be destroyed.

But to answer your question: Lobbying.

>>12749846
Long story short, funding for NASA is controlled by our Congress. Congress is made up of congressmen, who represent their state. SLS is a jobs program that brings a lot of money to states—in particular the state of Alabama. Shelby was head of the space commission (?can’t remember the official name) and pretty much told NASA “SLS gets built or you get NO money for Artemis. If you even try to challenge SLS I will have you fired”
As a side note, Shelby successfully had the ULA ceo fired because he wanted to build a space depot, which would allow smaller rockets to refuel and do more, thus challenging the SLS rocket

>All it takes is one brave person to take a stand and say “no”.
>No, the SLS is not safe enough for robots or humans, and nor can it be.
>No, the SLS is not good value for NASA or the US taxpayer. It’s not even bad value. It is negative value.
>No, I do not accept that the laws of physics are of secondary importance to fleeting political expediency.
>No, I will not build a system I know has no path to future improvements in performance and safety – a dead end.
>No, I will not build a system where tragedy and national humiliation is only a matter of time.
>What is the point of ten thousand engineers devoting lifetimes to developing deep insight into the workings of the universe if these, the cream of the cream who run space flight at NASA, cannot be trusted to know what’s wrong and what’s right.
>What sort of program do we deserve if we let non-technical political leaders force scientifically wrong decisions for decades? Lysenko? Great Leap Forward? Another Challenger? Another Columbia? Consequence-free profiteering at public expense by major aerospace contractors?
>Not on my watch. Enough is enough.
>Physics wins. Repudiate everything. Salt the Earth.
>Hold the line. Say No.
>SLS must be cancelled.
10/10 article. sorry for spamming my extracts.

>>12749853
Why didn't we listen? Every year Ron Paul has proven to be right more and more.

Discuss
https://www.nasa.gov/dragonfly/dragonfly-overview/index.html

>>12749865
If it crashes or if something goes wrong I'm literally going to kill myself

>>12749865
very excited for this one. mars and perseverance's new perspective are all very good but this will make my life.

How to compensate for pos/neg g-force - mass suspended in space moving through space?
How to simulate on-board gravittional force?
Graphene, right?

>>12749870
15 years till then

>>12749873
>How to simulate on-board gravittional force?
spin

>>12749876
I know. Last I checked it was slated for a 2027 launch, but of course in NASA fashion it will probably get delayed even further

>>12749865
I really want to see aerial views of the methane lakes there, waves lapping on the shores and methane snow falling gently out of the sky. Gonna take a long-ass time to get there, but I'm still excited for it.

>>12749865
Landing skids seem silly, also if the surface is tarry the drone could get stuck right after touch down and become a "stationary science platform"

>>12749880
>it might take 5+ years to assemble a little autonomous drone
It can't, can it? Are they just waiting for Saturn to be in a better position or something? It shouldn't take that long to make Dragonfly if they keep at it.

>>12749877
lol oh yeah. thanks bro.

>>12749883
it's rtg powered and there is basically no solar, it has to land.

>>12749865
who the hell greenlit this landing sequence; this shit isn't going to work
RTG powered drone is cool but this thing is going to fucking splat on landing

Wouldn't it be cool if someone redesigned the shuttle, gave it the R&D funding it needed, gave it full funding, and designed it from the ground up with deep space destinations in mind?

>>12749888
>little
>450kg
>3.5 meters across

>>12749865
https://youtu.be/IdYeWN9ZivE

It's going to be cooler than any robotic Mars mission. The gravity is so low and the air pressure is so high it's probably super easy to achieve flight even with a lot of mass. Dragonfly is pretty large but I wish they literally just used spare parts to make an extra Perseverance rover, and gave it quadcopter wings. Would be super based. Maybe /sfg/ could fund a mission there in 20 years

>>12749893

>>12749891
there was also a rtg plane proposal which could fly indefinitely due to the lower gravity and thick air

>>12749782
Making hydrogen on Mars is going to be tough at least at first. I think we could potentially just bring it there with us for the first few missions. The full 1200 tons of propellant for starship requires 264 tons of methane, and 66 tons of hydrogen. Sadly, because hydrogen is voluminous as fuck, that’s over 1,100 cubit meters of volume needed-bigger than the payload bay of a Starship.

However, the delta V to go from Low Mars Orbit to the surface (0.7 km/s) and back again (4.2 km/s) only requires 800 tons of propellant - meaning that we only need 44 tons of hydrogen. With some extra margin, we can bring 50 tons of hydrogen down to the surface, which requires a volume of 750 cubic meters. This can fit in the payload bay of Starship!

Long story short, gathering Hydrogen on Mars is going to be very tough without dedicated infrastructure. I think for the first few Mars missions you can send an extra cargo starship out with enough hydrogen to make propellant for a dedicated MADV starship, which can transport 100 tons to and from the surface over and over again. Any thoughts?

>>12749899
No.

>>12749893
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ykPIqgPTJE
What's wrong with it?

>>12749899
Designers were retarded and thought that NERVA was required for anywhere past LEO.

>>12749904
It's pretty big. But what the fuck I will never understand why they can't just build this shit in five years or less. Why can't NASA into space without spending millions and falling behind every time table
>I wish they literally just used spare parts to make an extra Perseverance rover, and gave it quadcopter wings
Would be fucking based lmao.

>>12749903
How many could you jam in a Starship?

>>12749893
if anything it seems like it could land much more reliably than Mars rovers

>>12749915
>It's pretty big. But what the fuck I will never understand why they can't just build this shit in five years or less. Why can't NASA into space without spending millions and falling behind every time table

Because they spend a ridiculous amount of time imagining every operational contingency they can think of and overengineer the living daylights out of it.

Give me the quick rundown on this thing and has it flown yet.

>>12749923
It'll fly probably some time around SOL-60. That's a ways off. Its a battery powered drone with onboard solar arrays and a couple of cameras in it.

>>12749915
>Perseverance development cost
$2.5 Billion
>Perseverance + Curiosity + Europa Clipper development cost
$8 Billion
>Estimated Starship development cost
$5 billion (Low) to $8.6 Billion (High).

Can someone explain this to me?

>>12749923
Pretty much as barebones as possible while still being useful to Percy, a couple of cameras is all it has

>>12749923
it's a very light coaxial helicopter with very high rpm rotors that will hopefully act as a scout and get some hot af pics. it hasn't flown and probably wont for a couple of months.

>>12749928
Zero-failure culture at NASA. "Fail quickly, fail often" culture at SpaceX.

>>12749923
Not yet no, the rover still hasn't moved yet as they're checking shit out and raising the mast. They'll drive to someplace before dropping it and having it do the flight tests.

>>12749928
desu it's like trying to compare developing a commercial ocean going ship to a radio array. ie pointless.

>>12749893
You reason in terms of other celestial bodies with little to no atmosphere, but Titan's one is even denser than ours.
Would that work on Earth?
If yes there is no reason why it wouldn't work there.

>>12749923
I'm worried that its small solar panels are gonna get covered in dust long before it flies.

>>12749953
You can see the cut data umbilical on the lower right, does anyone know what the mechanism was to cut them cleanly/quickly like that? I'm just curious and hadn't thought about it before now.

>>12749953
purpose?

>>12749956
explosive shaped charge of some sort. like an explosive bolt.

>>12749955
Dust on the solar panels only is an issue for missions that sit on Mars for a while. Ingy only needs to work for like 2 months.

>>12749915
Why would you send a quadcopter to Titan? Why not send a submarine or some shit?

>>12749960
The seas on Titan are liquid methane, temporal, and submarines are ill-suited for poking at geology and... hydro-cycles? I'm not sure what you'd call a water-cycle that uses methane for its fluid medium instead.

>>12749960
>Why would you send a quadcopter to Titan? Why not send a submarine or some shit?
Probably didnt approve it because its harder to develop, just like the plane

>>12749955
It's literally a massive fan, im sure dust on the panels won't be a problem

>>12749960
It's incredibly hard to create something that would survive in liquid methane for long periods of time, so staying out of the water is an easier task

>>12749965
>>12749964
There were plans to send a buoy to Titan powered by an RTG that would sit on the water and take cool pictures. It was also designed for astrobiology stuff. This quadcopter seems like a waste man

>>12749960
The atmosphere is so thicc that it'll be easy to fly in it.
If something fails onboard it could fall from a reasonable height without damaging itself.

>>12749957
I think the circles are for calibrating position of two of the cameras.

>>12749960

>>12749972
>This quadcopter seems like a waste
why? it can move large distances. it can land and take samples.

>>12749972
Here’s you probe, bro

>>12749972
Quad can take all the cool pics too but my issue is that it is less likely to land, less reliable and more expensive. I think a boat could be a few times cheaper to develop

When will the first large plants be grown on Mars?
I wan't to see apple blossoms on Mars before I die
>https://youtu.be/x5DR7v04YnE?t=2

Musklet will go bankcrupt and Tesla dissolved to GM before he can get starship land

>>12749983
>rover-plane-boat-car combo
It's just like my KSP builds

WOAH! WHAT THE FUCK!
IS THIS REAL!?

>>12749986
Hemp

>>12749987
where were you when musk die

i was transversing pisslock with miguel when comms bleep

musk is die

no

Did anything happen recently beside the static fire?

>>12749986
Remember the fungifags who were convinced it would be the one and only crop on Mars? God those were worse than the prooooooonters

>>12749980
Unironically a great design also I loved that documentary so much growing up.

>>12749981
Boats are cool. Balloons are also cool. Maybe even a few battery powered landers. It’s a damn shame we have a single mission to Titan every 20 years and costing $2 Billion

>>12749793
Someone should pour maple syrup or some other sticky substance into these engines to prevent them from being used in SLS.

>>12749998
>hehe just eat MOOOSHROOMZZ all day everyday
hell on mars

>>12750001
>2bn over 20 years
cheap. your average perma welfare family probably costs as much

>>12749998
Of course you'd grow mushrooms, but ONLY mushrooms? Fucking why? Monocropping fags.

>>12749998
Kek. Lorepilled

>>12750011
Jej but it’s more like
>Hey let’s spend 10 years deciding on what mission to fly
Anyhow Percy took like a decade to build that sucks

>>12750012
top profitable settler businesses to run on a new planet;
>water
>meat
>sex
>alcohol
>drugs
become a billionaire.

>”Down to the wire”
>Q2 2021, even though we should have made this choice a whole fucking year ago
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1364615696534016001?s=21

>>12750019
I'm going to smuggle a 100TB SSD full of every YIFY movie rip in existence and then sell the bootleg copies to normies. Earth-Mars bandwidth is going to be a precious commodity at first

>>12749998
Are the mushrooms supposed to grow in martian soil? Isnt that soil toxic

>>12750019
What will you brew alcohol out of, assuming you get your yeast starter there? And the sugar, where's that coming from? These details should be worked out in advance so that there's no delay in getting shitfaced on the red planet.

>China officially plans to move ahead with super-heavy Long March 9 rocket
>The rocket would have more lift than even the most powerful version of NASA's SLS.
>According to Chinese officials, the country will target the year 2030 for a debut launch. This is consistent with previous timeline estimates. The rocket is planned to have a lift capacity of 140 metric tons, with the capability of sending 50 or more tons into lunar orbit. It would be an immense vehicle, with a 10-meter diameter core and 5-meter side boosters. China would also like to eventually make the rocket, or at least part of it, reusable.
oof

Imagine living in a methane-heated home on Titan.

>>12750022
The more they delay, the more chances they give Starship to prove itself as the obvious choice when it's already clear they've decided to go with national team. Of course facts and reality won't stop them from selling out to the most influential partner, but I just hope there's a political cost when they do.

>>12750022
I think HLS has their hands tied. They have:
1) Starship. A great vehicle but so far it has a shoddy success rate. It also requires dozens of launches to get to the moon. But on the other hand the company that builds them is relentless and will go anywhere with or without you, and imagine the PR fail if Starship gets to the moon without nasa $$$$$
2) Dynetics’ ALPACA. A cool vehicle but it’s pretty limited in scope. It can support 2 crew for a week which is smaller than the Artemis requirements (4 Crew for a week or two). Despite this it’s partially reusable which is cool.
3) National Team Lander. Most safe design of the three. The big ladder is an issue though.
If I was NASA I’d choose National Team and SpaceX

>>12750039
it'll be national lander. ss is years from being human rated. and inb4 fanbois, it's a flag planting mission the luna ss is way beyond what the usg wants.

>>12750031
>2030
I thought long march variants were already sending shit to the moon, what's taking so long?

>>12750052
>50t per yeet
probably going for lunar base.

>>12750039
I wish they'd pick ALPACA. It's cheap, partially reusable solution that isn't as ambitious as SS, but is way more innovative then NLT. And it can fit in a SS, so it gets around the human rating problem and bad PR for not partnering with SpaceX in one choice.

>>12750051
>ss is years from being human rated
Every new vehicle is years from being human rated, anon. That's all of HLS. Also HLS doesn't even have the budget to support national lander lol

>>12750039
>>12750051
Exactly. NASA is going with National Team. They will probably also go with ALPACA for a few missions so they can wank themselves over "muh commercial partners" and "we want options" but in reality it will just be a cash handout for oldspace and Dynetics will get shoved to the side

>>12750031
The Chinese are gonna beat us to the moon, aren't they?
They're gonna beat us to a permanent base.

>>12749907
Ehm... Starship doesn't use hydrogen

>>12750075
NASA isn't going with Starship. I'm not trying to shitpost or be edgy or doomerpost or anything. I fucking love Starship, but NASA can't help themselves. They will go with NatTeam because it's oldspace and they will claim it to be the most reliable, and they will possibly go with ALPACA as well. Starship will be deemed too ambitious

>>12750051
human rating at NASA is for getting off earth which HLS has nothing to do with. Shuttling between LLO and the lunar surface is trivial.

>>12750069
ALPACA is literally shit it can’t meet the Artemis Requirement of a crew of 4 anyways. I don’t know why people jerk off about it so much National Team is superior in every way aside from the retard ladder.

>>12750078
I can see Lunar Starship being cancelled and SpaceX just going full steam for Mars.

>>12750079
>They're gonna beat us to a permanent base.
very likely unless the suits in the dod start doing some serious lobbying. news like this should be lighting a fire under the us govt but we'll wait and see.

>>12750051
>>12750078
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1341114067126239233
>My understanding is that the National Team has been told, essentially, to never again submit a ludicrously high bid in comparison to its HLS competitors.
Getting both SpaceX/Dynetics is basically the same as just the national team.

>>12750085
Methane is 25% hydrogen by weight. Methane is 22% of Starship’s propellant, so that means that hydrogen makes up 5.5% of Starship’s propellant

>>12750095
but ss is both the earth to leo and back AND the transport AND the lander. like >>12750087 said i love ss and am fully behind it but this isn't going to be it's thing.

>>12749882
IIRC the pressure is high enough and the gravity small enough that lakes on Titan most likely don't have waves. If anything standing on the shore of a Titan methane lake would look like a giant mirror stretching beyond the horizons which is cool as fuck in it's own way.

All speculative until we actually go there though.

>>12750101
https://twitter.com/joe_mckirdy/status/1341131027989864449
>SpaceX: 2.2b
>Dynetics: 5.2b
>National Team: 10b

>>12750101
From Bridenstine's NASA. Here's Jurczyk's most recent comments on Starship:
>“I know what the timelines are for the [Space Launch System], but it’s hard to determine what the timeline is and capabilities are for the Starship,” Jurczyk said in a new interview with Futurism. He added that it’s “just hard for me to determine how we would leverage capabilities like Starship and the Super Heavy that would launch Starship without understanding their timeline, their capabilities, and a lot more detail.”

>>12750106
it's not carrying anyone off the planet and it's not landing back on Earth, so those capabilities are irrelevant and if they aren't working in whatever version they're proposing it doesn't matter. I'm >>12750035 I know they've already decided on National Team because """the adults are back in charge""" means the corruption machine is back.

>giant flat mirror surface
I've seen ponds and small lakes like this, absolutely beautiful. It'd be insane to see something the size of a Great Lake be that placid.

>>12750098
>I don’t know why people jerk off about it so much National Team is superior in every way aside from the retard ladder.
I don't really get the value of having 4 people over 2 anyways, we all know Artemis is getting scaled down.
I like the disposable fuel tanks
I like it's low profile
I like that it's not trying to do an all in one solution, and instead just focusing on the lander part.
I think it's a much better start to build off of then the human lander.

>>12750102
99,4% of the weight of methane is in the protons and neutrons, same for piss. So basically starship is flying on piss

>>12750121
>means the corruption machine is back
not disagreeing. but i don't think ss as it is in it's current pre-alpha prototype state will be chosen over oldspace tech for flag flying.
in fact it's probably better if musk just gets over it and does his own thing, because this will only bog spacex down.

>>12750121
Which is why'd they would go with both starship and alpaca. Alpaca actually looks like a great lander and even if starship can't be human rated in time having the ability to drop 100 tons on the moon is just ridiculous

>>12750121
Ok it’s over for Lunar Starship. Which isn’t a bad thing because it would’ve taken 20 tanker flights anyways but still that kinda sucks.

>>12750133
I will defend National Team against Alpaca With my life

>>12750144
>it would’ve taken 20 tanker flights
No it wouldn't have. Also don't try to reconcile this. The other two options are fucking shitty, inexcusably shitty.

>>12750133
Again, human rating has nothing to do with HLS. It does exactly one thing: shuttle between gateway and lunar surface. A starship will be infinitely safer and more reliable as that shuttle than any tiny lander. Its hilariously over-qualified capabilities have much more to do with oldspace rot than with starship being too complex or too unwieldy to perform the shuttling. The "human rating" process is about getting people off of Earth and back to Earth which is a billion times harder and more dangerous than any shenanigans around the moon.

More NASA scientists coming out against the SLS
https://twitter.com/DrPhiltill/status/1364558478254223362

>>12750127
>So basically starship is flying on piss
Someone tweet this to Elon, sounds like an amazing breakthrough that starship can literally fly on piss

>>12749845
>car screeching right.jpg

Anyone have a pdf of this?
https://www.amazon.com/Safe-Is-Not-An-Option/dp/0989135519/

>>12750087
>I'm not trying to shitpost or be edgy or doomerpost or anything
It's funny how I didn't accuse anyone of any of that and instead made an argument, but I guess it's too hard to respond to those.

>>12749907
I was thinking the same
you need to dig up and process a LOT of ice to fill it up

I wonder if you could use liquid CO as your fuel and burn it to CO2 when you lift off
it wouldn't have nearly as much dV or ISP as methane, but all you would need would be the atmosphere itself and energy

>>12750156
>A starship will be infinitely safer and more reliable as that shuttle than any tiny lander
yea will be. it's currently some silos welded together with a mass simulator and a nose cone and crashes doing something no craft has ever been rated to do. to go from today to a dragon capsule is going to take longer than the program will put up with.

>>12749907
Sending hydrogen is absolutely retarded. At that point you're better of bringing all your methane with you as at least you save on density. But that's probably not going to happen either. Instead of crying "it's too hard" the first missions will be entirely about setting up ISRU infrastructure for the methane plants.

>>12750169
a raptor wouldn't run on hydrogen, the tanks wouldn't store it. it wouldn't work.

>>12750164
anonfiles DOTCOM
SLASH
D7I2nd65q2
SLASH
space.2015.0032_pdf

>>12750102
Yes. But anon said
>requires 264 tons of methane, AND 66 tons of hydrogen
The methane is already accounted for, what does starship need the extra hydrogen for?

KEK the absolute cope of NASA

>>12750191
Nice 2 page book review, man.

>>12750207
>had a hard time getting it to fully open
this is your life on $2 valves from alibaba bought for $2mil

>>12750176
you don't understand what I'm saying. It doesn't need to go from today to dragon capsule. It's not re-enterying any atmosphere or carrying any astronauts through the atmosphere into space—no parachutes, no escape system, no heat shield, no water landing, no header tanks, no bellyflop, no wings, no landing maneuver. Once starship takes off and lands that is the sum total of capabilities it needs to demonstrate to be a successful lunar lander.

are nasa engineers s o y boys?

>>12750207
>multi billion dollar rocket
>can't open a fucking valve
the absolute state

>>12750181
are you slow in the upstairs department?
the hydrogen isn't to fuel the raptors directly, but to be made into methane

to make 100 tons of methane you need 25 tons of hydrogen and 75 tons of carbon (you get that from atmosphere - no problem)
to make 25 tons of hydrogen you need 277 tons of water and that's a lot of ice to dig up

>>12750218
it's needs a hab module built into it though.so i guess is the cost worth it to spacex to develop a one time vehicle? i get what you're saying, not just trying to be argumentative.

>>12750207
I love the excuse following the issue
>w- well, well... RUSSIA SHOULD BE HELPING US

I'm looking at old Curiosity photos and there is so many close up photos of pebbles.
So weird. It just a pebbles but they was formed by water on the alien world billions years ago.

>>12749837
He's from Alabama. Alabama's Senators have a long history of being pants on head retarded. Also he knows enough about rocketry to be dangerous, like the whole depot thing. He cares more about jobs and pork for his state than he does about actually colonizing space. I'm so glad he's retiring.

>>12750235
Yes, the martian blueberries. Pretty sure they are balls of iron was the last theory.

>>12750240
The forbidden blueberries.

>>12750207
>it's been one hundred billion years and ten quadrillion dollars but i regret to inform you that the green run is beyond our technology
>you should really get on board with us tho
NASA is just laughing at itself at this point. They have rejected success as being too aberrant to the status quo.

>>12750240
I want to eat the blueberries.

>>12750240
>>12750244
>Martian scones
How long would it take maple syrup to evaporate on Mars? Would it freeze solid first?

>>12750257
it would freeze dry for sure

>>12750207
The absolute state of Oldspace

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1364634132723204097
>Asked about the HLS procurement that’s ongoing, she notes those award(s) are for lander demonstrations; will be a separate procurement for lander services. Big challenge is how to maintain competition for that future procurement.
did... did they just reduce the scope of the HLS competition to a mere unmanned demo?

>>12749891
I didn't say no landing, I said landing skids seem like not the best solution. Why not have the rover land on feet that consist of a thousand layers of mylar loosely glued together like a pad of sticky notes? That way even if the surface is made of superglue the drone can lift off anyway and leave behind only the very bottom layers of the feet. Repeat for subsequent flights and landings. That way at least you are pretty much guaranteed a large number of successful liftoffs, and after you run out of sticky note foot pads you just accept the risk of becoming a bug on flypaper.

>>12750310
That would actually be based. National Team wouldn't be able to do shit for another 20 years lol

>>12749893
2x the atmosphere and 1/6th the gravity means flight is 12 times easier bro. Add to that the fact that the drone only need 4 of 8 of the propellers to function in order to fly means there's massive performance margin. Also the thing doesn't fly on RTG, it flies on batteries, which provide high power output when needed and are recharged between flights.

>>12746671
Can somebody confirm

>>12749899
don't worry anon I understood your ironic post, also checked

>>12750315
This is so retarded hahahah

>>12750317
National Team is the one ready for the unmanned demo, you fool

>>12750101
>>12750117
NASA wants sustainable way to get to Moon and stay there, as well as a way to scale the architecture to the Mars.

>sustainable
Functionally, via reusable vehicles
Economically, via cheaper cost
Scalability

National Team is neither functionality of reusable vehicle nor is it economically cheap nor can it scale to mars mission. Starship fits both criteria all three criteria. Dynetics has slight reusable functionality, and slight economics, but scaling is bit of an issue.

NASA isn't made of money. For what National Team is charging, NASA can afford both SpaceX and Dynetics then have few billions extra left over for emergencies.

Also
>redundancy
National Team/Dynetics plans on launching via Vulcan using blue origin engines.
Starship does not depend on blue origin's success nor vulcan.

>>12749907
I've done all the figuring, it's better to just send the required methane using Starships. It literally only takes between 2 and 4 Starships to send enough "cargo" methane to allow a single Starship to return to Earth. 3/4ths of the propellant mass in a Starship is oxygen, meaning ~900 tons out of ~1200 can be sourced on Mars with no need for harvesting water (to make oxygen when you already have methane you just collect atmosphere, compress it until the CO2 liquifies, dump out the other gasses, use electrolysis to convert the CO2 to O2 and CO gasses, separate the two and store them. The oxygen gets liquified and fed into the tank obviously while the CO scan be used as a reducing agent for refining iron and nickel ores (seriously).
This process is so easy to automate that NASA already sent an experiment to Mars on Perseverance to actually do it in-situ. A Starship would simply need to deploy some solar panels, open a couple valves, and run the pump and electrolysis unit, and it could easily generate all the oxygen necessary to refill a Starship before people ever arrive, and without anything more than basic remote human oversight.
I actually do think that SpaceX is going to accomplish their first manned landings on Mars once they're already got 400 tons of methane shipped there from Earth and a couple of oxygen factory Starships already running. It's a simple solution with redundancy that goes a huge way to eliminating risk, perfect for initial phases of exploration and system development.

>>12750229
Raptor doesn’t run on hydrogen

>>12749915
Wait is that to scale? I'm suddenly very disappointed if true

>>12750334
No it isnt. They still havent built out anything other than a inflatable balloon.

Meanwhile, the one with the actual unmanned demo is SpaceX. They haven't just built 1 unmanned demo, they've build half a dozen which are all undergoing testing at various stages. The Starship you see is not only a second stage, but its also the lander demo itself.

>>12750180
That means sending 270 tons of methane to Mars’ surface. That’s the equivalent of three fully stocked Starships being landed. There’s too much that can go wrong

>>12749945
Except the 300 meter long commercial ship costs $1 million and the two meter radio dish costs $2 million

>>12749834
Lol, Bridenstine doesn't work for a senator, he works for the President

>>12749956
A tiny man with bolt cutters
>>12749960
Titan's lakes are cool but the actual interesting shit in terms of understanding the moon's geologic history is all on dry land, and spread far and wide. Though I would say that like Perseverance carries a little helicopter drone, Dragonfly should carry a little submarine, even if it were just a one foot long pill-shaped capsule only capable of buoyancy control which could use sonar to map the lake floor and chemical analyzers to look at the liquid, etc etc. Basic taste test stuff.

>>12749882
lucky for you, they are specifically avoiding the lakes :)

>>12750334
Lel in what world? You are not the clown, you are the whole circus.

>>12750355
>Wait is that to scale? I'm suddenly very disappointed if true

Very not to scale. It uses the same RTG as Curiosity and Perseverance.

>>12749981
Somehow NASA would make a boat that cost $2 billion because they'd be scared that the lakes are methane and also it would turn out to be fairly unstable once in the field because of some retarded facepalm design flaw (think curiosity's aluminum wheels with their holes and sharp corners causing them to get torn the fuck up after driving a few kilometers total).

>>12750355
Yeah that's what I'm saying. They aren't building a fuckhuge Curiosity-sized drone. It's the size of a small dog. What the fuck is taking them until 2027+ to launch this thing?

>>12749983
fuck yeah dude

>>12749998
What makes mushroom fags extra retarded is the fact that mushrooms aren't even autotrophic. Imagine basing your colony's food production on troll-physics tier ecology.
>humans make poop from food
>fungi eat poop
>humans grow fungi in poop
>humans eat fungi
>humans feed poop to fungi
>repeat for infinite food XDXD
>problem?

>>12750373
They should hire me, Id show these nasa s o y boys how proper german engineering is done

>>12749904
>The gravity is so low and the air pressure is so high it's probably super easy to achieve flight even with a lot of mass.
Yes gravity is much lower, but the air pressure is LOW, like really low. On earth, the open atmosphere is 14.7psi. Mars? 0.01 psi (Yes, 0.01 psi, not a typo).
For rockets, it makes a great environment because they use combustibles to generate thrust upward. For helicopters, you need that air pressure to be able to generate lift from slicing blades through the air.
They really aren't sure if ingenuity will be able to fly.

>>12750236
I bet that dumbass Roy Moore will run again and ruin things further in the Senate.

>>12750030
>yeast starter
a pinch of yeast in a little plastic baggie will last for years, that's no issue.
>What will you brew alcohol out of . . .and the sugar, where's that coming from?
All alcohol is brewed from sugars, though that can include everything from monomers like glucose up to massive carbohydrate starches. Anyway the answer is whatever plants can be easily grown hydroponically or otherwise in-situ that also produce lots of sugar/starch per unit mass of plant. Sugar cane is a likely candidate, as are potatoes and sugar beets and even carrots. Corn fucking sucks and I hope it's never exported off of earth, it has the shittiest yield-to-biomass ratio imaginable, wastes so much energy on the stalk it's unreal.
Also if for some reason you are under the impression that alcohol will be a banned substance on Mars you're mistaken, don't worry. There will be little community breweries turning locally grown mash into moonshine inside of a decade on the planet, and previous to that alcohol will still be available in the form of closet brewed wines and meads, as well as just straight up imported alcohol from Earth.

>>12750116
That's not why Titan's lakes don't have waves, anon. We think it has something to do with the way large bodies of liquid hydrocarbons work compared to water, but it's hard to tell. What we do know is that we've never observed waves on Titan's lakes with any radar measurements, at least at a scale bigger than a centimeter or so.

>>12749834
There is a scary timeline out there where SpaceX doesn’t exist and instead SLS is our only hope and Richard Shelby is a hero to spaceflight fans for defending our beyond earth orbit launch capabilities from harm

>>12750415
SLS wouldn't exist if SpaceX didn't exist. What would exist is Space Shuttle.

>>12750390
We're talking about Dragonfly. It's flying on Titan, not Mars

>>12750423
Shuttle was killed back in 2005. It’s just that Orion was supposed to fly in 2013, 2015 at the latest.

>>12750144
National team is complete shit

>>12750207
>>12750233
Is NASA not aware of the state of the Russian space industry?

>>12750414
just read today that Titan waves are 1 mm tall and 10 mm long, and this was measured with radar
>They really aren't sure if ingenuity will be able to fly.
you really dont think they didnt do their calculations?

>>12750240
I choose to believe that those were living organisms that coated themselves in iron oxide for shielding against UV light

>>12749882
why can you see depth on the methane lake? Is it really that transparent or just cgi popsci pic?

>>12750320
yes

>>12750244
Looks like esa rover has a special treat waiting for him.

>>12750357
Dude, they are already planning on sending like a dozen fully stocked Starships to Mars before they send any humans anyway. Why would dedicating three of those to holding 100 tons of methane each be a problem?

>>12750372
>>12750374
Okay anons get your fucking shit together. How big is Dragonfly? Dimensions, not CGI or low fidelity models please.

>>12750390
>They really aren't sure if ingenuity will be able to fly.
They've literally flown it in a vacuum chamber on Earth already. They know it will fly, silly. The question is if it's gonna have good enough flight software to avoid just crashing at the end of the first flight.

>>12749923
>Give me the quick rundown
Fuck you, nothing about this is quick (except how long I last in bed)
>https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/ This "thing" is named Ingenuity because some stupid kid had some parents with a dictionary, so they made the kid submit an essay as to why it should be named that.
The little fucker is attached to Perseverance, specifically her underside, all folded up nice a neat. A spring loaded shield keeps Ingy covered up and cozy, and will stay that way until Percy finds a nice spot for release.
No one knows how long little Ingy will stay with mama Percy, but its probably going to be a good couple months. When the time comes and Percy gets tired of carrying the little propeller bastard, she will dump the spring loaded shield from under herself, drive forward a little bit away from the latest piece of garbage tossed on the ground, and shit out our beautiful little Ingenuity.
By this time, Ingy will have charged up her lithium ion batteries, and get nice and stretched out from being a goddamn parasite for so long. The plan is to do a quick 20-30 second hover "flight" within a month of being dumped off. Don't worry, Percy will hang around to watch Ingy and see what happens. She will have her own solar panel on her forehead to recharge.
Assuming the test hop/flight/whatever goes to plan, Ingy will then be able to try more complex maneuvers until she crashes or her batteries give out.
>Cue The Lion King "Circle of Life" Song

Now, she isn't a big thing, but isn't too small either. She went on a diet before shipping off last year and only weighs about 4 pounds. On Mars, that's a scale busting 1.5 pounds. Watch out Victroias Secret models, you got some competition. Not that they would have the latest thong bikini in her size, but Ingys prop span is almost 4 feet wide! Can you believe it? My dick is almost that bi... oh wait, I said feet not inches, whoops. And with a 350 motor, shes a spunky little thing.

>>12750030
>>12750019
looks like it's my time to shine
I autistically researched what to grow in space for maximum efficiency, variety and space considerations

>>12750442
>>They really aren't sure if ingenuity will be able to fly.
>you really dont think they didnt do their calculations?
I think you meant to quote a different anon.
Anyway, beyond just doing calculations, they actually flew the thing in a vacuum chamber under Mars-like conditions several times (attached to a counterbalanced tether to simulate Mars gravity as well).

>>12750461
>Okay anons get your fucking shit together. How big is Dragonfly? Dimensions, not CGI or low fidelity models please.

They don't exist yet. The machine is still in development. They have a mass budget of 450 kilograms, and a power budget of whatever they can get out of the radioisotope thermal generator being pulled from inventory for the mission.

>>12750461
No bigger than 3.7 meters

>>12749934
To be fair, failing here on Earth isn't too bad when you can print a new rocket and have it ready to go in under a month.
On Mars, you're shit out of luck (can't dig a hole on mars, lol)

>>12750461
450kg

>>12750454
That's a radar image, anon. False colored for clarity. In reality the data is monochromatic black-and-white.

>>12750473

>>12750470
wow anon, you sure do sound like a heckin redditorino with this epic post

>>12750473
The biggest redpill is using ISRU to make polyethylene and then making giant plastic bags to serve as pressure domes.

>>12750480
>They have a mass budget of 450 kilograms
>>12750481
>No bigger than 3.7 meters
Okay, good enough. That's all I need to know to be assured that they aren't sending a toy like >>12750374 said and this image implied >>12749915

>>12750485
still you can see the lake get darker towards the center of the lake, So the radar goes through the methane?

>>12750473
>>12750487
Dude is there a way you can save this as a PDF or something this shits amazing.

>>12750487
>>12750495
yeah, that would be relatively easy to do

>>12750503
>>12750503
I'll get to it eventually

>>12750415
>There is a scary timeline out there where SpaceX doesn’t exist and instead SLS is our only hope and Richard Shelby is a hero to spaceflight fans for defending our beyond earth orbit launch capabilities from harm
Back when Constellation was still going there was an alternative proposal by engineers called Direct, which was more closely based on the Shuttle than Ares and simpler. A lot of spaceflight fans held Direct up as a better option. At the time they were the rebels against the NASA establishment. SLS is quite similar to Direct.

>>12750510
alright, that's it for now
I actually planted a bunch of these in my backyard

>>12750461
Okay woah wait actually Dragonfly is large as fuck. Here I compared it with Perseverance. It's almost as large, should come out to be about 80-ish% the same length. Each blade for the rotocopter will be 1m diameter, so imagine a meter stick fucking spinning. That's big as fuck

>>12750515
I used to be a huge fan of DIRECT too. I didn’t realize that it suffered the same problems as SLS, really.

>>12750530
Holy shit the USA is about to have huge RTG robots all over the solar system. Even at it's lowest power level, NASA fucking shits on ESA and Roscosmos. No one else is even trying

>>12750459
Rover droppings.

>>12750502
Yeah I guess lol. It's a non-polar liquid so I'd assume radar can penetrate pretty deep, maybe even to the balls.

>>12750540
Enough plutonium for 2 missions fag

hey /sfg/, do you know if NASA publishes or distributes in any way the raw capture from their cameras for perseverance, or if they plan to in the future?

>>12750518
>actually doing real world things
fucking BASED my dude, growing plants is real nigga shit

>>12750550
They started making more. They always say “our supply is running low” but NASA can always request more and the Oak Ridge lab will make it

>>12750552
no they exclusively post edited cgi-enhanced pictures of every mission, no exception

>>12750552
I'm pretty sure they upload the raws online

>>12750552
Yes? They do this for every mission, as it is publicly funded (save for some stuff they keep, if it's deemed top secret). You can download the literal raw data from every mission

Reading about what happened to the crew of Columbia and remember what it was like on the carnival ride that exposes you to 5g and trying to move your arms and legs. Imagine trying to finish getting your PPE on and getting your visor down while your shuttle is flipping through the atmosphere like a retard.

>>12750556
Yeah it's kinda a non-problem. The only people scared of making plutonium are those who are afraid of nuclear proliferation (as if it's difficult for a country to get their hands on fissile material lol). Literally every operating nuclear reactor today is generating multiple kilograms of Pu-238 annually, but most of that is simply never extracted from the irradiated fuel. Because "muh reprocessing muh nukes muh".

>>12750429
>We're talking about Dragonfly.
Damn I'm stupid. The post had a photo of Percy parachuting into Mars and I assumed you were talking about Ingy.

>>12750463
>They've literally flown it in a vacuum chamber on Earth already. They know it will fly, silly.
Huh, news to me, last I hard it was still unknown because of the thin atmosphere. Thanks.

>>12750565
It probably wouldn't have flipped much, if at all. Shuttle was very aerodynamically stable in the nose-forward orientation. When Challenger broke up for example the entire crew cabin section broke off and just pointed prograde during the parabolic arc and subsequent fall at terminal velocity until splashdown.

>>12750473
transparent background on 4chin makes it pretty hard to read depending on some extension sets, jfyi

>>12750576
It would have rolled yawed around like it was someone on PPC running down the freeway.

>>12749893
>Splating
>On Titan
With an atmospheric pressure at 1.4 times that of Earth's and a gravity less that Luna, terminal velocity is rather low, as in a human would easily survive an impact at TV there.

>>12750575
https://www.space.com/nasa-mars-helicopter-aces-flight-tests.html
There have been a couple videos of this too, apparently it has over an hour of Mars-condition flight time. It's pretty well understood, a bunch of anons I guess just didn't realize the fact that we can mostly simulate Mars' surface in a can on Earth if we need to.

>>12750581
Sure but that's not a violent back-and-forth motion, which makes it pretty easy to counteract. Think fighter pilots in a banking turn at 5g compared to a guy in a van being pummeled by traffic coming from two different directions and shaken like a rat in a cage. In the first scenario you are fighting against 5x your body weight in pretty much a fixed direction, in the other you're being randomly shoved around.

>2.
>Exposure of unconscious or deceased crew members to a dynamic rotating load environment with a lack of upper body restraint and nonconformal helmets. When the orbiter lost control, the resultant motion was not lethal but did require crew members to brace against the motion. The forebody, which is made up of the crew module and forward fuselage, separated at orbiter breakup. The forebody continued to rotate. After the crew lost consciousness due to the loss of cabin pressure, the seat inertial reel mechanisms on the crews’ shoulder harnesses did not lock. As a result, the unconscious or deceased crew was exposed to cyclical rotational motion while restrained only at the lower body. Crew helmets do not conform to the head. Consequently, lethal trauma occurred to the unconscious or deceased crew due to the lack of upper body support and restraint.

>Crew helmets do not conform to the head. Consequently, lethal trauma occurred to the unconscious or deceased crew due to the lack of upper body support and restraint.

>Crew helmets do not conform to the head. Consequently, lethal trauma occurred

>>12750582
Basically. A human with model wings attached to their arms could literally fly on Titan. I remember seeing someone calculated that falling in the skydiver position on Titan would result in a terminal velocity of like 30 km/h, which would mean that from literally any height you could easily survive an unprotected fall with zero injuries just by tucking out of the bellyflop position at the last second and landing on your feet/rolling with the impact.

>>12750578
oops

>>12750612
this makin me HUNGRY

>>12750582
>>12750603
Assuming you had a personal heat shield, maybe a board covered with spacex hex tiles, you could literally enter from orbit and flap your wings and land somewhere. Titan is truly a planet for CHADS

>>12750487
Can vouch for quorn, tasty and easy to cook, ideal staple for a lot of dishes

>>12750560
>>12750562
>>12750564
well I'm looking at https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/multimedia/raw-images/#raw-images but these are just PNG encodes, I was hoping to see the raw sensor data, especially for the mast cams

>>12750630
Holy shit forget E2E travel. Titan will have trebuchets that just fling you in the general direction you need to go, and then you glide to the next trebuchet. There could be a network with flinging stations every 100km or whatever so you can get to wherever you need to go

>>12750603
>>12750630
Is it true that if you could survive the pressures then falling into one of the gas giants you would eventually reach a point where the density would become so great that you would just float?

>>12750438
National Team will be the one to make the HLS and there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it.

>>12750640
just email nasa lol

>>12750643
You wouldn’t even need that, you could just flap your arms and fly across the moon. I want to go so bad bros.

>>12750645
I'll be laconic here
>If

>>12749998
No bro we put moss and fungi outside the hab

>>12750415
>Bill of the beach
my man

>>12750518
Aren't you forgetting something

>>12750666
YUMMY IN MY TUMMY

>>12750643
too bad its cold and you cant breed the heir

>>12750645
Honestly know one is actually sure of what the fuck to expect inside gas giants. We don't know if it at some point there is a giant liquid mantle, or if it just goes straight to super critical, if there is anything solid, etc. What we THINK is that gas giants have those features, but we can't really know. One fucked up example is that all the gas giant's magnetospheres are off center and routinely get all fucky in shape and composition and no one really has a working idea of why except "maybe the core is off center idk lol."

Presumably there is a point in a gas giant where you would "float," but the heat and pressure at that depth would likely atomize your fucking body so it's impossible to determine for sure.

I really hope someone comes up with a way to make a gas giant deep dive probe work some day.

>>12750666

>>12750666
Eat the boogs, martian bigot

>>12750666
Wasteful. We don't need to complicate the cycle to have feedstock animals that need bugs in their diet to begin with.
You can stay behind and nosh on the bugs with the primitives all you like though.

>>12750677
just lower a probe hanging off Cassini with a string into a gas giant lol

>>12750687
Sounds like the "just lower a probe on a giant rope into the blackhole from beyond the event horizon" meme.

>>12750552
>do you know if NASA publishes or distributes in any way the raw capture from their cameras for perseverance
Its like some of you don't read, listen, or do any kind of your own research before shitposting.
>https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/multimedia/raw-images/
Uploading raw images has been a thing for lots of missions.

>>12750666
Bahahahaha

>>12750683
You wont be growing foxglove my dude it will be fungus and bugs.

>>12750666
>those digits
Of fucking course

>>12750584
Well damn, how the fuck did I miss all that? The only video I've come across is the test of it unfolding and dropping out of percy. I appreciate the info, I need to go dig around their news articles.

>>12750666
Get the fuck outta here Satan.

>>12750599
>lethal trauma occurred to the [..] deceased crew
Damn, the accident was so bad they got killed twice.

>>12750715
They know it will fly, but they DID state they "aren't sure it will work" so maybe you got confused because of that? (For context, they said it 'might not' work because there's a chance it could freeze)

>>12750706
>Not growing human/animal feed from methane fuel and biogas from recycled shit
NGMI
https://news.psu.edu/story/502406/2018/01/25/research/microbes-may-help-astronauts-transform-human-waste-food

>>12750666
I did consider it, Satan
but the feed conversion is actually worse - mealworms eat grain, while the animals eat mix of grain, straw, algae and whatever leftovers
and while something like crickets could eat straw, they would probably escape and become a pest eventually

>>12750731
I’m personally cool with eating plants and tilapia for the rest of my life

>>12750725
That's probably it, I misunderstood what they meant. The horribly thin atmosphere was what made me think they weren't sure they could make enough lift.

>>12750726
Fungus can grow about anywhere even on the surface of Mars. Feed it to bugs or eat it then eat the bugs, why fuck around with a complex system.
>More bugs please Sir Elon.

umm....why would you even consider flying in space?

>>12750710
Wow, Keanu really has been around for a long time.

ITT: Ppl who will never know the ecstasy of eating gourmet grubbies

>>12750749
>flying
>in space
u wat mate?

>>12750694
>its like some of you don't read, listen
you sound like my teacher faggot

>>12750648
Then HLS shall fail.

>>12749882
I hear it wont be until 2040~ something until the saturnian system is back in a good position again for a mission.
At least by that time we hopefully have improved our space tech and communication systems and be able to send an amazing drone and have the bandwidth for some nice HD color videos

>>12750666
talipa fish > bugs
hell even crustaceans > bugs
Any organism that eats scummy water is going to be the best for animal protein. Bugs are a meme.

>>12750710
Martian colonist dress code should be Roman attire.

>>12749782
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86052460915?pwd=dGpwc2dUMklaWVNaYmhmRnVYdmNTdz09

Gravity waves zoom meeting

>>12750760
>you sound like my teacher faggot
You sound like a fucking retard that can't take 3 minutes to google "RAW MARS 2020 IMAGES" and click on literally the first result.
Maybe your kindergarten teacher is right.

>>12750746
>Why fuck around with the thing that eats methane that you produce, is nutrient dense and can easily feed aquatic livestock in an aquaponic farm?
Read that and then think about it for several minutes

why are there dots all over the pic

>>12749986
I wonder if there are some plants who could grow under the native Mars atmosphere without having to resort to pressurizing and supplying oxygen to the greenhouse.

>>12750784
I think those are from the NavCams and therefore have a grid applied to them so the computer can identify stuff.

>>12750784
compression

>>12750779
Okay dude you go ahead and bring your fart converter and all the spare parts that are necessary to run an aqua farm.
>even your Aqua farm will grow fungus.
Top lol

>>12750784
Probably dithering. Just a way of compression so the files could be sent to Earth without it taking a billion years. Not every photo they send back can afford to be in full HD

kinda dig the proonted tank aesthetic

>>12750777
The amount of boomers

>>12750797
Sure, here grow this using your shit and endlessly recycle the energy over and over

>>12750706
>fungus and bugs.
where are the autotrophs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJdYAsnvQo8
nice

>>12750039
>National Team Lander
who?

>>12750805
Such a stupid fucking garbage name

>>12750808

>>12750121
What hes saying is that he is not going to rely on SS until its closer to finish. They have to get things in space ASAP and starship isn't ready yet. What this also tells me is that they are looking at starship very closely for their new vehicle.

>>12750814
Real Engineering's accent is thick like Guinness

>>12750749
the sexual thrill

>>12750815
ULA + Body Odor

>>12750766
The launch window to Saturn opens every year + 1/30th of a year, because Saturn takes ~30 years to go around the Sun. As a rule of thumb the more distant two sun-orbiting objects, the more common the launch opportunities, but also the greater the travel time.

>>12750831
>Underwear & Lingerie Association and Body Odor

>>12750805
>bro what if we made a tank completely out of weld seams lmao

New mastcam photos

>>12750840
I'm tired of the photos already, show me the geology so I can coom

>>12750840
The rogs are already invading the rover

>>12750840
Why are there just rocks laying around everywhere out in the open.

>>12750840
what's its first destination?

>>12750807
r u gen Y

like Y eveything

>>12750844
This one rog is funky looking

>>12750844
probably the dust getting kicked up by the sky crane

>>12750844
love the adorable rover evolution.
Kinda cool how pathfinder can just drive under Percy with room to spare

>>12750854
it looked like a pigeon in the thumbnail

>>12750849
I'd want to see the skycrane wreckage

Come on anon, come turn me into bricks! Or just print all over me!

>>12750843
>mmmm rogs...

>>12750849
Don't think we know yet, but I think the first one is a flat area for the helicoptor test.
>>12750867
Curiosity found it's heat shield at one point

>>12750846
?
Because there's no vegetation to build up organic soil layers and bury the rocks, anon

>>12750777
Thanks anon

I wonder how similar these dunes are to ones on earth.

>>12750878
Is this not Opportunity? I mean look at your file name lmao

>>12750881
I know its a stupid question but they are just laying around out in the open not even covered by dust. They just lay there. Even on the moon they were covered by dust.

>>12750854
>>12750873
>imagine not being able to just walk over there and flip a few rocks and dig a few 1 foot deep holes to study the sedimentation layers and the shallow subsurface directly
it's sad really

>>12750894
it clearly depends on the area look at >>12750878 hardly a rock in sight

>>12750893
Yeah that's correct

>>12750439
The issue is that without cooperation with NASA Russia will start cooperating with China. What is not good.

Are rocks the Martian N?

>>12750894
But they are dusty, as in they have a thin layer of wind-blown dust. The lack of wind on the Moon is why sediments of every kind are just randomly thrown around. If the Moon had wind it would have areas where the wind would scour the surface of small particles and other areas where wind would deposit those particles into dunes. On Mars this process has been going on for billions of years so all we see are the results of this natural sorting and dust collection.

>>12750901
>flat fuck hemisphere
sexy, this was definitely sea bed at one point.
>>12750902
>What is not good.
This is not philosophy general.

>>12750873
>>12750854
Looks like as the wind gets at the rocks, they're dark grey inside. More iron rich rocks?

>>12750763

>>12750723
spacex hasn't even killed a single person, meanwhile the shuttle was killing people twice decades ago, just shows you how much of a fraud elon is

>>12750648
>nothing that you can do about it.
I can't. But Musk will

>>12750910
to not see your enemies run before you, to not hear the lamentations of their women

>>12750917
>spacex hasn't even killed a single person
They could if they'd just start mining the beach

>>12750892
Pretty similar. Dunes on every planetary body are all fundamentally the same. It’s the little differences that make them unique. On Mars, for example, the atmosphere is shit-but it’s enough to actually make dunes. Wind is scared so it might take 5 years to create formations that would otherwise take 3 months on Earth. Also the way they accumulate and shift is different, mainly because factors such as gravity are different so a whole bunch of different stuff is getting plugged into your physical flow equations.

>>12750934
>Wind is scared
scarce

>>12750844
Those are not rocks, those are rover droppings.

Never thought i would autistic over geology.

mushrooms are delicious desu

fuck rogs I want a sub on Titan to explore actual alien worlds with methane lakes and underground oceans and shieet

Uhhhh bros, possible sky crane explosion captured
>>12750946
Geology is absolutely based

Lets be real here there is no way we're getting there by 2024. 2028 maybe but more realistically 2032

Does the general have an irc?

>>12750954
Taken behind the VAB by 2023 at the latest and you know it.

>>12750956
It’s pinned on the discord

Are there any really hardy insects/moss/fungi that could live on mars? That seems to me like a good way to start the terraforming process

>>12750962
Yeah maybe we could make a bug-fungi amalgam to help us print and make brick domes with

>>12750960
Fuck discord

>>12750953
What the nani is that cloud in the top center mid ground?

>>12750971
Listen, you get a mossy bug infested mars and their gasses and corpses will eventually make the planet more habitable

>>12750953
What cam is this from?

How long until a nuclear rocket is used, based on recent policy developments?

>>12750960
link?

>>12750962
Whatever bacteria that was growing ON THE OUTSIDE of the ISS.

>>12750994
It's just out the airlock anon, go get suited up

>>12750994
Bruhhh I was joking

>>12750996
Dude put it all over mars

>>12750996
Fucking extremophiles be like
>Hmmmm yes, very swell Nigel, let’s start a colony here. Lovely radiation this is. Energy? Let’s just reduce the metal we are growing on or some shit, yes.

>>12750950
Too risky, just make a boat and then give it a submersible attached to it.
The submersible can then get stuck or fail and the boat can detach it.

>>12750231
yeah spacex needs to develop hab modules for regular SS too so whats your point

>>12750962
Yes
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/43200035_Survival_Potential_and_Photosynthetic_Activity_of_Lichens_Under_Mars-Like_Conditions_A_Laboratory_Study

>>12751011
Titan’s methane lakes are kind of spooky. If you fall in I don’t think there’s a way to get out.

>>12750962
Algae could grow under the surface at higher latitudes if there is a perma frost containing water so it is the start of a basic food chain. Feed it to bugs and yum yum soi gourmand
>live in the pod
>own nothing
>eat the bugs
Mars is dystopian nightmare.

Landing spot looks preem, obvious signs of water all around.

>>12749782
So for a manned mars mission with a crew of 4, how would the gender breakdown go? I could see it being split 50/50 men and women but no more, no less. I’m only asking because Mars Direct assumes crews of 4 instead of 6.

>>12751019
This is better than sex

>>12751023
it will be 3 to 1
jeb, bill, bob and valentina

>>12751023
Tyrone and his bitches

>>12751031
I could see this but something just feels “wrong” about it I don’t know man

>>12751033
All black mission to Mars when?

>>12751033
>>12751038
>Black people on Mars
Wouldn't it make more sense to send Finnish albinos?

>>12750473
Is a pure vegetarian diet possible? I occasionally see people saying that you need meat to actually survive over long periods of time, but is it true?

>>12751048
A lot of black astronauts are actually really cool.

>>12751048

>>12751056
yeah i'm sure they are i was just thinking about the lack of direct sunlight.

>>12749882
kraken mare is far bigger, weird nobody has done a comparison with it

>>12751050
Vegetarian includes eggs and cheese, it's easy because it's the correct way to live. You're thinking of vegan.

who of you is Mcdee E

>>12751019
wait till you hear about the trilobites

>>12751064
Ah. I don’t actually know if lack of sun affects different races differently. I do know that black people still get sunburnt like whites people, but that’s just because I’m from Texas

>>12750039
Can we launch Alpaca with Starship?

>>12751070
Man I hope so. They'd need to get super lucky with a split rock though.

>>12751015
Thanks for this anon. Down the rabbit hole I go

>>12751078
Yes, at least it fits in the planned payload bay.

>>12749972
They plan the quad to go over 100 kilometers across the surface of titan I believe with the quad, and with a mission extension who knows how far they could go, possibly they could even go upwards of 500 or even 1000 kilometers.
>>12749972
Fuck sending something to the middle of the lake, it'd be cooler to send something to one of the big canyons with rivers at the bottom of them.

>>12751066
But is it possible to live on a vegan diet?

>>12751011
where would it get stuck its just rocks down there.

The holey rocks up closers

>>12750994
it's on the pastebin

>>12750954
Artemis 1 in 2022, Artemis 2 in 2024 and Artemis 3 in 2026 is more likely. Anytime later they might just as well buy some seats from the Chinese.

>>12751092
Is that fucking Pumice?

>>12751084
Lichen on Mars would still have the issue where the pressure is below water's critical point ie water either boils off or exists as ice, no liquid water, which would be a huge issue.

>>12750844
There's something eerie about the illumination of these pictures. Amazing.

>>12751098
My worst case thought is it's just the normal rocks with holes blasted by the descent stage. But I'm not a geologist so I have no way to know

>>12751100
As I understand this, most plants have this issue in martian conditions where the low pressure causes water to boil off and the plant interprets this as a drought and enters drought mode.

>>12751086
10 km per flight, one flight would scout for new landing sites and return to where it took off, then the next flight would actually fly to the new spot, and there will be about 1000 in total, depending on the health of the li-ion batteries

>>12751093
Thanks, got it

>>12750645
You can start researching the topic right here on Earth by jumping into the Mariana trench. Don't forget to take notes.

Damn, who could've seen this coming?

>>12751118
gib

>>12751097
>Artemis 1
SLS will never fly. If it does it will explode

>>12751110
The descent engines aren't that powerful. They just whirled some dust around.

>>12751081
we have two chances and a wildcard to find life at jezero. fine clay delta deposits and the carbonate bathtub ring on the ancient shoreline. similar environments on Earth are known to preserve 3.5 billion year old microbes. the wildcard is macrofossils, but that's unlikely

>>12751010

>>12751120

Perseverance is getting me really excited. Last time was NH half a decade ago. Feels nice to witness new discoveries in new places.

>>12751136
Then SLS will explode next year, any further Artemis mission will be on Falcon Heavy, and we are back to Artemis 2 in 2023 and Artemis 3 in 2024

>>12751120
bruh

>>12751120
Better order up a new pair of SRBs.
Because the current pair just extended their shelf life, lol.

>>12751163
*expended, not extended.