/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12735459
If the doctor is there with all his stuff, yeah. Maternity wards are glorified hotels.

>>12735459
No births are safe, but generally speaking a hospital birth is safer than a home birth

Yeah totally

>>12735468
They induce with pitocin, clamp early, vaccinate, circumcise, vitamin K, vaseline and silver nitrate in the eyes, and so on, however.

>>12735577
The only thing about this post I understood was circumcision. What does everything else mean?

>>12735582
Schizophrenia

>>12735582
Pitocin is synthetic oxytocin. They basically try to force the child out by inducing strong contractions which slam the child's head against a cervix and birth canal which is not properly dilated. This causes mechanical trauma, and it's possible the spike of oxytocin alters infant brain development and bonding with the mother. It may also prime for opioid addiction, but this is more tenuous (though I've seen it anecdotally).

Clamping early means they halt placental transfusion by clamping off the umbilical cord early. This deprives the infant of as much as 1/3 of its blood volume, its means of gas exchange before the lungs are fully functional, its iron stores, and its stem cells. Modern data shows this causes brain damage and permanently stunted brain development.
See:
>>/sci/thread/S12527247
Warning, very bluntly stated with some opinions on aspects that are broader than the data itself.

Vitamin K is too nuanced. All I'll say is that the forms they used to use would cause jaundice, the idea that it's an inert blanket prophylactic is arrogant and vastly overimplified.

Vaseline and silver nitrate are put in the eyes purportedly to prevent infection. However, if humans are like birds, which they seem to be, the first thing they see is what they attach most strongly to. There is something called the perinatal "golden hour" which is very important for early psychological development and mother child bonding. Their meddling scrambles and wastes this period.

>>12735618
so is this why im a huge fag

>>12735682
Don't know.

>>12735682
Nah, you just love cock.

>>12735459
my wife did 3 home births. first one did end up at the hospital per our dulas advice in the moment. nothing bad happened, was all cool in the end and the doctor was nice since we had called ahead the week before. pretty cheap too, only 800 bucks since my son popped out, got weighed and we got sent home in 6 hours since my wife did it no drugs.
other two were zero complications at home, used a water tub.
we spent many many hours and dollars making sure everything was okay for a homebirth before doing it, and we didn't have any problem going to the hospital if we needed to.

>>12735459
No, the security is atrocious! Anyone could burst through a window or bust a door down at a moment's notice! Better do it in a bank vault next time!

>>12735459

>>12735582
It means clamp schizo escaped from the institute and is back on 4chan

>>12735732
speaking in purely selective terms, what does this entail for the population of the western world? what genetic fuckups have we let through on accident who would've otherwise died in childbirth?
I know I should've died at the age of 5 from pneumonia, but birth mortality is something I am unfamiliar with.

>>12735986
women will have narrow hips

>>12735990
If women buy synthetic breast milk and get c-sections to supplement conventional nursing, where will all of the fat go?

>>12735459
Yes they are pretty legit. Sadly my wife cant get them since shes skinny as a rail and waited to start having kids at 25 so her hips didnt grow like they should have

>>12735618
This sounds like bullshit. You're a schizo poltard trying to push disinfo.

>Are home births safe?
Negative. Risk for complications and need for emergency ceasean surgery is too high to allow home births.

>>12735732
>deaths rise at war years if Finland becouse doctors are in field

Fuck you russians, you are dead to me

>>12736286
Shh. You don't want to trigger the schizo.

>>12735459
Jesus Christ this is a blue board cunt have some fucking class. Get this disgusting breeder off here

>>12736286
It's not entirely bullshit, but like most schizophrenic things it takes a little truth and gets it completely wrong. Pitocin is used to induce labor in cases where labor absolutely needs to be induced chemically. Like, walking around for an hour didn't work and if you don't give birth now that baby's dead.

Vitamin K is a very, very common deficiency in the developed world and can cause perinatal complications, so prenatal vitamins often contain it. There's no risk of overdose or toxicity. Toxicity would cause jaundice or icterus, but we don't see that because we don't give infants doses of vitamin K, that's what prenatal vitamins are for.

The idea that human infants visually bond is just borderline retardation. Touch is much more important, and babies don't attach to the first thing they come across. They bond to the thing that holds them the most.

And home births are pretty safe. Humans have been doing it longer than humans have existed. There's possible complications, so it's safer to be in a hospital or somewhere with an obstetrician or midwife.

>>12736467
American.

>>12735572
Is the moldavite what gives the child the psychic powers or is she using the child to charge the moldavite like some sort of temporary philosopher's stone?

>>12736528
Wrong.

>>12736793
typical

>>12736286
>AAAAAHHHHH I'm having badthink and badfeel!!!!
>NUH UH ur jussss sskkkiiiiizzzzzoooooohhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
>Badthink and badfeel recedes
>Phew
>He still doesn't even look into it.

Clamped. Cringe. Bulepilled to the point where your body manufactures its own steady stream of bluepills.

>>12736509
All opinion. Same boat as the above, just more verbose.

>>12735572
She's tuning the moldavite to the innocent child's suffering to use it to drain souls later.

>>12735682
No, it's your uncle's fault.

>>12736509

I can't speak for all hospital birth experiences but pitocin was 100% necessary for my wife as her water broke very early and after that point infection becomes more probable the longer until birth. Even with pitocin, the labor was over 24 hours.
The hospital we delivered at delayed cord clamping.
As for circumcision, we were asked multiple times by hospital staff. The child being circumcised is entirely the parents' decision.

>>12737827
Glad to hear you had an altogether good experience, but I’ve heard horror stories (hopefully just anecdotal/rumors) of boys being circumcised or having their foreskins forcibly retracted without parental consent, or with just one parent’s input.

>>12735459
Nope, look up medieval birth mortality.

>>12737827
>Even with pitocin, the labor was over 24 hours.
Sounds like it didn't work so far as solving the underlying problem then, whatever it was.

>>12735572
This baby could lift cars with her thoughts, and she's being ruined my a fucking mold rock

>>12737827
>The child being circumcised is entirely the parents' decision.
You don't seem to get it, that's not a positive, that's the problem. No matter if it's slipped in with other paperwork and coerced, routine, or asked for explicitly, if the service were not offered by hospitals most children simply not be circumcised. The number of parents that would try to do it themselves, find some guy in a van in a back alley, or seek out a mohel, are a vast minority.

Doctors are the cause of circumcision, not parents. "Just following orders, sir."

>>12737827
>As for circumcision, we were asked multiple times by hospital staff. The child being circumcised is entirely the parents' decision.
what the fuck is wrong with americans

>>12738262
Post-traumatic repetition compulsion. Extreme discomfort at perceived contrast or inhomogeneity, as it contrast creates delineation, and once you can delineate then you are able to discern, and once you can discern you find the truth in the relfection the world casts back to you. If everyone is circumcised, in effect, no one is circumcised. However if you know there is foreskin out there, relative to them you are circumcised, whcih emans there is something to be thought about, which means there is something to which you may apply good and bad, at which point you must make a choice, at which point you must face your own existence and what happened to you and all the questions and changes in self image which stem from it. This is why circumcision must be done shortly after birth, and it's why the Jews for example at one point in history had evolved from having the child held on the mother's lap, to a designated person taking the child from the mother and transporting it to the location, then giving it to a designate person at the door, who would then bring it to the circumciser. Modern day however apparently it's common for most sects to attend the circumcision, but it shows that they had certain engineering problems (like the mother seeing the pain of the child). It is also said that a man is not a real Jew until he is a father, and has watched the circumcision of his son.

>>12738262
A way of inducing learned helplessness in animals is by subjecting them to extreme and unrelenting stress. Such as for example, tying them down and cutting off body parts with no anesthesia. This will make the animal less independent and headstrong.

>>12735572
Why the hell would you want to charge your child with slav energy?

Safe as long as the baby is healthy.

Two of mine were home birth. Two midwives came round, got the job done, and everything was fine. You know what it's so much nicer NOT sticking around in the fucking hospital for another few hours afterwards. You're already home with everyone. I'd do it again. I mean I wouldn't have another kid, 3 is enough.

>>12735618
Shut the fuck up, Garrett.

>>12738881
Unclamp and transcend pills, schizo.

>>12738886
You've never been to a maternal ward, let alone have had to attend to a single birth. Fuck off.

>>12738950
Go on.

>>12735459
They're a lot safer for your kid's dick than hospital births

Why is it so common on this board to just scream /pol and schizo while providing no rebuttal, evidence, or credible data to the contrary of a given statement? ITT, for example, with only one exception the reaction to the "clamp anon" is to just call him a schizo and leave it at that. Where is the argument? Is it because he is right that name calling is the only way to express disproval?

>>12739018
Religion.

>>12738262
hospitals make insane amounts of money selling baby foreskins to pharmaceutical companies.

>>12739018
for the same reason /pol/ posters call everyone trannies and SJW and tell them to dilate. the lower classes have been successfully divided, and actual discourse has become impossible.

>>12739018
>with only one exception the reaction to the "clamp anon" is to just call him a schizo and leave it at that
Because he's been spamming the same word vomit for over five years and is genuinely schizophrenic. Anyone who spends more than a few days on /sci/ realizes he's a crackpot and anyone who's naive enough to actually talk to him realizes they've wasted their time when the thread 404s and he comes back with the exact same shit

>>12739709
As insane as that anon's babblings may be on the whole, they still raise some interest. When I do hopefully have children in the future instead of just going with the 'default' nonchoice in regards to umbilical clamping I'll do at least some research and ask what options the hospital gives, instead of just assuming they'll do what's in the best interest of the infant instead of what's best for their bottom line.

https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(18)31079-5/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259583/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32702760/

>>12735577
>>12735618
>>12735459
>pitocin
nah
>clamp early
dr literally handed me the scissors
>vaccinate
nothing wrong with this
>circumsize
no one even asked me, it was an option on paper though, I circled "no" and he's intact
>vitamin K
no idea, didnt see anything
>vaseline and silver nitrate in the eyes
no idea, didnt see anything
>jaundice
yep, baby was yellow
>first thing they see is what they attach most strongly to
the ceiling light, nice

>>12740784
>dr literally handed me the scissors
This has nothing to do with clamp timing.

>nothing wrong with this
>>/sci/thread/S12601876
>>/sci/thread/S12601876#p12616540

Neonatal hepatitis B vaccine induced brain dysfunction.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27501128
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29751176
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29627530

Assuming nothing has changed, you let them gimp your kid. It'll start to kick in in the early teens. I don't know of any way to halt or reverse it.

>yep, baby was yellow
Maybe didn't get the colostrum.

>>12735459
The real answer is "it depends".

If you have a non-complicated pregnancy with no high risk factors you will ALWAYS be better off having a homebirth with a certified midwife (titles vary by state, but you want the ones with 3 years of post-grad education, not the type that took a quick quiz with the state and can now call themselves that). They can prescribe as necessary and even stitch you up if you tear a bit.

Hospitals are only for complicated, high risk pregnancies, and they treat ALL cases that way. Once you enter, the interventions begin immediately. Not progressing on the OB's timeline? Pitocin, which increases risks of tearing, putting the baby in distress (due to stronger contractions before you're ready), and uterine rupture on top of all the pyschological side-effects. You feeling discomfort? Have some narcotics and an epidural. Oh no, did that halt/slow your labor and now you can't participate? MORE PITOCIN! It's a vicious cycle, and part of the reason that C-section rates are skyrocketing (the other being that they can bill more). All the while, the mother is weakening because she's not allowed to eat or drink, the primary reason for this being surgical prep.

On top of this, almost universally they want you in lithotomy because it's easiest on the staff, despite that being the absolute worst position to deliver in (pelvic opening) and the one that causes the greatest chance of tearing. This allows them to bill for more interventions, though, such as vacuum extraction, forceps use, and vaginal repair. Also, if the mother is doped and being stitched up, she's less likely to be able to refuse other interventions such as immediate cord clamping (terrible), forcible airway suction (terrible), immediate hepB vax (fucking why?), eye drops (do you have gonorrhea or chlamydia?), and vitamin K (which is actually a good thing if they mechanically extracted the baby, but almost never necessary otherwise unless you're SE Asian).

>>12741696
So, let me give examples:

Wife #1 had two hospital births. Both were uncomplicated and she had a beastly birth canal and hips. No problem, right? Well, they started with the pitocin which caused her pain. Then came the epidural which stopped labor regardless of how much more pitocin they gave her. 12 hours of misery later she was on so much pitocin that the baby shot out like a cannonball tearing her severely. Instant clamping against our wishes. All the interventions against our wishes. I got into a screaming match with a doctor over vitamin K and while I was fighting against it they did it anyway.

Birth two, they started her on pitocin immediately, causing my son to go into distress. Now he gets wires into his head. After reviewing the chart they decided she was a low responder to pitocin and against our request they dialed it to 11 and he came three hours later causing a tear that basically turned her vagina and rectum into one big cannonball hole requiring her to be taken to a surgical theater for repair. The experience was so traumatic she refused to consider a third child.

Wife #2 had a birth center birth (CM) and a home birth. She did them both unmedicated and without any interventions. The first, we stopped at Jack in the Box and she gorged herself with food, then was allowed (encouraged!) to continue to eat and drink during the process. It took 18 hours, she had a water birth, and didn't tear. Her discomfort level was never what wife #1's was because she was allowed to move around, care for herself, and follow her body's cues without being pumped full of pitocin.

Birth two, she woke up in full labor and after calling the CM, decided she might not have time to make it to the birth center. We quickly sanitized the bathtub, filled it, and got her settled in by the time the midwife arrived. 30 minutes later she delivered with a tiny tear that was repaired on the spot. She had no unusual discomfort during the process.

>>12741736
As a follow-up, the biggest factor for her was that she was in her familiar surroundings. It was so comforting that she didn't really focus so much on the process and felt less "pain".

Child #3 (for her) is on the way, and there is no way in hell she'll birth it anywhere but home.

Having a non-hospital birth allows for all sorts of "outside-the-box" processes unlike in a hospital. For instance, during her first waterbirth, in order to allow the cord to fully blanch before cutting, her placenta floated in a bowl in the tub. We didn't want our kids stabbed at all, so they drew blood from the placenta for the genetic screens and didn't give us shit for our other choices. Circumcision wasn't even mentioned. There was never any pressure to do anything, and the whole mindset was to allow the mother to do her thing with the support of the midwife, rather than forcing the mother to do whatever the RNs and OBs thought was most convenient for them.

>>12735618
>>12736286
t. medfag, wife is a nursefag

>pitocin
Almost right. It's not so much slamming the head against the cervix, it's overly strong contractions which cut off oxygen flow to the child periodically putting it in distress. Studies have shown bonding impairment in mothers and babies who were given pitocin during delivery, and in mothers alone if given only afterwards. Overuse of pitocin is the leading causal factor in emergency C-sections because of related fetal distress.

>clamping
40% of a baby's blood and iron stores along with ALL of their free stem cells are in the cord/placental blood. Immediate clamping prevents this transfer, but allows the hospital to charge you insane amounts for cord blood banking. All current studies are screaming at OBs to stop this practice, but it is so ingrained that it's hard to fight, just like those that want to use forceps every delivery. How hard is it for you to do a simple google scholar search for "delayed cord clamping"? Look at any of the first hundred results. This is not schizo ... how would you feel if 40% of your blood was removed?

>Vitamin K
Unnecessary in almost all cases unless you're SE Asian or manual extraction was used. In all other cases, use of oral K under the Netherlands model is just as effective, without overburdening the child's liver and exposing them to the other ingredients in the shot (such as peanut oil, which in combination with day 1 hepB vaccination is the leading suspected cause of the massive increase in peanut allergies).

>Eye Drops
Literally not needed unless you have chlamydia or gonorrhea. Instead of a puffy-eyed kid for a week, you get one that can see clearly from day one. It has a profound effect on bonding for both the child and the parents. The reason the "your baby can't see" meme exists is because they're being temporarily blinded at birth. Unless your wife's fidelity is suspect, DON'T DO THIS.

When does the time start for cord clamping?

My kid was immediately laid on the mothers chest. Chilled for a minute as the doctor joked about his 1000th successful delivery or something. Then he held the placenta up and said "come look at this, son" and asked me to cut the chord.

Now, did the doctor speedrun the clamp as soon as the baby plopped out, or did he clamp after pulling the placenta out?

>>12742860
When the baby is delivered, the tight passage through the birth canal causes a good amount of their blood to be back-pumped into the placenta. It usually takes from 3-5 minutes for this blood to be pulled back into the baby regardless of whether the placenta has been delivered or not. For convenience's sake, some doctors will clamp and cut immediately post birth so they can hand the kid off to the nurses without waiting for the placenta or bothering with the tether still being in place. When you do this, the cord has large, bulging red and blue veins because they're full of blood.

Think about it: cord blood banking is only viable because that kids' stem cells are all now trapped in the cord and placenta, and in order to bank it, you can't let the kid have it.

On the other hand, if you wait a few minutes, the cord becomes white and stops pulsing, drained of blood. At that point it looks like really thick, overcooked pasta. That's when it's okay to cut if you want your child to get it's blood and stem cell supplies in full.

In a hospital, it's a crap shoot whether the doc will respect your wishes when it comes to cord clamping. All they have to do is claim they thought there was "some distress signs" and do whatever they want, and once that clamp goes on it's over. They know this, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's the same thing as "oopsie" circumcisions ... the law gives no fucks.

And this is just one issue. This is why you don't want to deliver in a hospital unless you have to: they know all this, and don't fucking care.

>>12742860
To answer your specific question, no, he didn't do a quickie if he waited for the placenta to be delivered. He did right by you. The placenta is usually delivered 5-15 minutes after the baby.

>>12743218
I've wondered if cessarean delivery attenuates some of the damage of early clamping.

>>12735459
she needs to really clean her vag up fucking hell. poor baby, forever stuck with poor skin condition because the mother couldn't bother washing after riding the train for a month straight.

>>12735708
based, I was born at home, so were sister and brother and we've always been very healthy with no allergies

>>12741748
Please, for the love of god, teach what your wife learned the hard way to your children when they come of age so that this wisdom is not lost. Theb worst thing about the modern education system is it conditions people to absolve themselves of the responsibility of educating their own children, which destroys all traces of tradition, heritage, and legacy. By design.

>>12743285
That MIGHT allow you to build an alternate power structure over several generations, but the only proper solution is to attack the system directly. I agree, don't rely on the delusion of a collective and the state, but this shit needs to be dealt with. The house of cards not only needs to change, it needs to be thoroughly exposed so they can't pretend to be righteous saviors and Gods again. Otherwise they'll quitely clean up their messes, and it'll just be something else down the line.

>>12743249
Effectively, every C-section is early clamp to a degree. At any given time there is about 25-30% of the blood supply is in the placenta, so while this gets increased during delivery, it's not too high a supply drop for the baby. In a C-section, they'll always lose that blood.

>>12743285
I've been recording all of this so they can see it with their own eyes. No better way to educate a kid.

>>12735459
Fuck no, child birth is still ridiculously dangerous under the best circumstances.
https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/maternal-mortality/pregnancy-mortality-surveillance-system.htm

>>12743484
>0.00017% mortality rate
Wow. It's fucking nothing.

>>12743484
You're basing this on hospital birth being best circumstances and everything else being inferior.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortality-rate/

Compare US rate to elsewhere, where they don't clamp, vaccinate, circumcise, irradiate (as much), pitocin, halogenate, etc.

>>12743492
>Compare US rate to elsewhere,
(Other industrialized / developed nations, that is. Such as Sweden, Spain,etc)

>>12743492
Better link for comparison.
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortality-rate/country-comparison

Does that look like best country on Earth to you?

>>12735459
Just youtube yourself intto home births... like placenta management, umbilical cord clamping
I hope for the mother to have it as easy as her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHpSzz7kjuo

a home birth is fine if everything goes fine, and it's a problem if things do not go fine.

in the event of a serious problem with a birth, you're going to a hospital. in that situation, you'd probably wish you were already at the hospital because they could have run diagnostics to prevent it, or you're otherwise running against the clock.

if a mother is hemorrhaging, or the baby is asphyxiated, it can be minutes to death or permanent damage. nuchal cords occur in about a quarter of births, and can be serious.

it's fine when it's fine, and chances are it'll be fine. but, birth is a thing that you probably don't want to have happen all that often, so arguably it may be worth shelling out to mitigate as much risk as possible, depending on how much you value your money.

>>12743489
it's pretty similar to the lifetime rate of being accidentally killed while riding a bicycle

>>12735572
How would she look like grown up?

>>12743769
A certified midwife can handle those things at least as well as a certified nurse midwife and likely as well as an OB/GYN. Even in the field. The odds of "complications" arising due to over-medicalization in hospitals is vastly greater than the risk of encountering complications that need to be handled in a hospital during a normal low-risk pregnancy.

Take your twins, breech babies, and eclamptic women to the hospital, but for the rest ....

>>12735618
you only use oxytocin in emergencies or if the woman is not delivering correctly, how the fuck are you going to prevent that in your home? by pushing harder? isn't that the same shit as slaming the child?

Reading this i feel so lucky having a gyno mother, but then i rememerd she almost died at my birth because they forgot to take out the placenta

White people be like
>we eliminated most of birth related deaths
>now let's have birth in home minutes away from emergency

>>12738262
>Muh sons peepee better look like mine or girls will laugh at him >:(

This is literally the entire American thought process that goes into mutilating an infant.

>>12744315
That's some of it, but a lot of it is trusting their physician's medical knowledge/authority, especially with such bogus arguments as 'it'll hurt him less to do it now than it will to do later on', which, of course, completely ignores how small the chances of circumcision being needed are. And to add to that, even if a male does have phimosis there are at least 3 other treatments (1 non-surgical and two far less invasive) that should not only be put forth as options for the patient, but arguably tried to the full extent possible before cutting off healthy flesh.

>>12744302
Objectively false.
>>12743507

>>12735572
Is this achievable natty?

>>12739018
Disinformation, there are forces at work in this world that would see to it that we never evolve or regain the lost knowledge of our ancestors.

>>12738996
Not trying to sound edgy but I would literally murder any physician who tried to mutilate my child without consent.

>>12745159
Same, as it should be. I would circumcise his neck.

>>12735459
no, any birth on Earth is not safe. you will suffer and the child will suffer

>>12735459
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZoHSce004M

>>12735459
you could just rent an apartment beside the hospital incase anything goes wrong

>>12735459
Safe as long as everything goes exactly as planned. A total disaster if it doesn't.