/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12702611
>Will the stock market crash once people realize infinite growth is impossible?
Why would it crash? It will probably just slow down a bit because resources which would otherwise be allocated to innovation will have to be used for dealing with the consequences of climate change. Also, what does infinite growth have to do with this? Wealth can grow indefinitely without increasing energy/material use.
>Will there be civil unrest? Climate migrations?
Yes. Developed countries will probably just have do deal with the rising water level by moving cities or constructing barriers. But Africa, parts of Asia, and perhaps Mexico will also have to deal with some areas becoming uninhabitable due to the heat and some formerly fertile areas becoming arid. Within the next 40 years, I expect the EU to have a migrant crisis far worse than the recent one. While the EU definitely has the material resources to deal with this situation, I'm concerned that it could lead to the rise of authoritarian and even fascist parties in many countries, e.g. Hungary, Italy, Sweden, and Poland.
>what should the average person do, if anything?
Educate people. Never vote for climate change denialists, for multiple reasons. Vote for parties for whom this is a priority, but who ideally also have a scientific approach. A lot of the people who care about this problem are also into anti-nuclear, anti-GMO, etc. activism. They're well-intentioned but dumb.

>>12702611
>Should a normal person worry?
Yes, in the sense that climate change has major consequences for industrial civilisation.
No, in the sense that nothing you do can alter the process.

>>12702940
>I'm concerned that it could lead to the rise of authoritarian and even fascist parties in many countries, e.g. Hungary, Italy, Sweden, and Poland.
You say that like it was a bad thing

>A lot of the people who care about this problem are also into anti-nuclear, anti-GMO, etc. activism. They're well-intentioned but dumb.
indeed, they're also pro-rapefugee

>>12703317
>yes i want to be oppressed

>>12702940
>I'm concerned that it could lead to the rise of authoritarian and even fascist parties
Politics itself is bound to become more authoritarian, pointing at individual parties or politicians is just misdirection.

>>12703389
I have had this thought as well. The political pendulum may very well be shifting towards authoritarian for now.

>>12703327
>i prefer to be opressed by communists so i have food and get raped by niggers

>>12702611
>trying to find the middle ground between scientists and a retarded crossing guard

>>12703734
who's the crossing guard?

>>12702940
>Hungary, Italy, Sweden, and Poland
sweden?

>>12702611
>20, 50 years
Does it sound like a very long time? But we've already passed decades since the theory of global warming.

>>12702611
>Should a normal person worry?
Idiots are incapable of foresight, hindsight, and personal reflection.
They're like animals, spook them and they'll just trample each other and run off a cliff.
Leave them be.

>>12703403
May very well be? Have you seen asleep the last 12 months?

>>12703790
I know, surprising, but search Sweden Democrats

>>12702940
>Wealth can grow indefinitely without increasing energy/material use.
I see you've never opened a macro book, and don't like using your brain either

>>12702611
>I don't want any kneejerk denialists or doomsday cultists,
I hate this false equivalence meme

>>12702611
quick answer?
nobody knows

>>12702611
>infinite growth is impossible
Ohh noo there are only 300 billion stars in the galaxy!
>civil unrest
Imagine the cops shoot a black man because of climate change! There would be chaos!
>climate migrations
Ohh noo millions of people will leave Bangladesh and millions of people will go to Canada and Russia. What a disaster!

Climate change is a hoax to get more government funding. Don't get me wrong, global warming exists and is anthropogenic in cause. But all these doomsayers about climate change are parasites who are brainwashing the public with garbage plots. Look at this plot. Fucking look at it, and tell me how you'd react if data about anything else was presented this way.

Literally nothing is going to happen, not in your lifetime, not in your children's lifetime, and not in your grandchildrens lifetime. It's a politicized nothingburger. Worst that'll happen is that areas closer to the equator become hotter, and places closer to the pole become habitable. That's it.

The reality of the situation is that literally every projection claimed by climatologists uses shaky models that predict, without any evidence, exponential growth in all categories as worst case scenarios, and use this to scare political leaders into effecting climate policies. It's bullshit, and I'm sick of seeing people take it seriously and not tear it down as the doomsaying bullshit that it is. You can do this data/not data partition with literally every climate change plot (note: climate change, not global warming, since that's the only legitimate finding in climate change science). In every plot you do this on, the data is incredibly stable whereas the projections are outlandishly ridiculous. In most of the plots, projections constitute over 70% of the graph. Come on, guys.

>muh redditobal basedming meme
kek, imagine unironically falling for this

>>12705211
What? Speak English or go back to /int/

>>12702611
Turns out apocalyptic climate change is nothing but an elaborate hoax by a group of racist economists called Malthusians, one century in the making. The more you read about it, the sillier it gets, like a discarded anime sideplot from NGE or something.

>>12702940
>Id rather be a minority in my country than have a slighlty more authoritarian goverment that cares for its people.

The absolute state of /sci/

>>12703327
>>yes i want to be oppressed
I live in Poland and I hope my based government orders Border Guard to shoot any rapefugee trying to enter our paradise on sight.
Climate change is beneficial to us anyway, so I don't give a single fuck.

>>12706409
Well...you need more kids if you want that or you can help poor gopniks (pathologics?)

>>12705465
>authoritarian survellience ethnostate totally cares about its people bro
>this is way better than having a few more black people

>>12703327
Oppressed as in what? Life went on as normal in fascist italy and nazi germany if you weren't a piece of shit

>tfw 23 years old
>if I had been born in the 60s I would have been able to experiences the 80s a college student and would have died before climate change got REALLY bad

it hurts to live

>>12708271
Let me make it a bit better. Know that about one tenth of what you earn for the next 20 will go to paying boomers pensions who could never be bothered about climate change

>>12708214
yes

someone redpill me on climate change. how come none of the predictions come true?

>>12703327
Trust me when I say you rather want to live under white fascists than resentful Africans

>t. South African

>>12702611
>So what's realistically going to happen with the climate in 5, 10, 20, and 50 years?
As a non-expert, i suspect the usual pattern will happen.
Just enough progress will be made over time to keep major collapse far away. Over time the situation will get closer and closer to collapse. Then it will become too much of a problem, effecting too many people, for governments to ignore. Then either it will be too late, or it will be possible to fix it.
Either way, it will have been better to have fixed it decades before, but less profitable for the politicians who want to appeal to voter bases or lobbyists

>>12702611
>5, 10, 20, and 50 years?
Based on past prediction and their accuracy: Nothing at all.

>>12709460
Redpill was dropped here, but apparently nobody cares.
>>12705156
>>12705168
>>12705177

>>12709971
It's interesting that you believe in a Doomer version sold by media but not supported by the IPCC and their data, even their most alarmist data.

1. There's no collapse. There's just a price tag. Lots of money every year until the future to prevent something that might not happen. Or ignore it and adapt in the future if something actually happens. IPCC says preventing is the way to go, because that means they are showever in billions of dollars of free money every year until the end of time.
2. What exactly do you pretend that we've been and could be doing to stave off that collapse? CO2 emissions are increasing thanks to developing world. The west reducing their emissions makes a tiny difference in the margin, but pretending a 10% decrease in projected emissions saves the planet makes no sense.

>>12709460
>how come none of the predictions come true?
Because the predictions are made by throwing dice and the whole field exists because they've realized they can scare money and funding out of people.

Being a climate scientist is all about telling everyone how you need more funding and policymaking power. The only model they have that correlates to reality is their financial model of how they'll get paid more if they make more scary predictions and talk about the tipping point that's around the corner.

>>12705156
>>12705168
>>12705177
Isn't the whole point that there are reserves of CO2 stored in polar ice. And if polar ice melts too much then we get a chain reaction where CO2 released from polar ice > increases temp > melts ice > releases CO2 from polar ice.
In which case, the projections would be based on the rate at which ice is melting (relative to temp), the amount of CO2 that will be released as ice is melted, and the amount of warming that CO2 will lead to.
I agree that a lot of the climate shit is politicized excessively. I would prefer not having fuel burning cars, just for the sake of better air quality. Yet we have all these coal miners and oil rig workers who will chimp out at the slightest mention of them needing to learn a new trade. And on the other side, you have literal children chimping out about governments not doing enough about climate change.
I think climate change is happening. Anyone with a high school level knowledge of chemistry understands the mechanisms of CO2 causing warming. And my anecdotal evidence is that for the last few years the weather in winter has been warmer than the year before, except for this winter where it's actually been snowing in february.
I'm also skeptical, though I haven't seen the evidence, when people try to say old predictions were inaccurate. You make a predictive model to show how bad things could get (based on our best knowledge), the intention is to convince governments to take action to avoid the worst case. If I saw a bomb was going to explode, and then I called the police and they defused the bomb, it would be pretty retarded to say I was wrong about the claim the bomb would explode.

>>12710046
>my anecdotal evidence is that for the last few years the weather in winter has been warmer than the year before
See Texas, today.

Can somebody explain the significance of the weather patterns currently over the Atlantic Ocean, as shown in the linked image?
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-49.46,38.98,1113/loc=-49.975,36.787

>>12702611
BAN lobbyism
ENFORCE a maximum income level
OPEN all international borders
SAVE the world

>>12702940
>Vote
kek

>>12710625
>OPEN all international borders
Right so that all the third world nigs can rush into Europe and instantly blow their carbon footprint up by a factor of 10
Sounds like a great way to clean up the environment.

>>12711076
Beats abusing their labor or keeping them denied access to food & energy.

It will force innovation

>1 inch of snow killed Texas

Embarrassing.

>>12711241
innovation in 'killing niggers'

>>12711476
As opposed to the current killing of whitey?

I'm freezing my ass off right now! So much for global warming!

Sarcasm aside, this is one of the coldest snaps I've experienced in Louisiana. It's gotten cold here in the past, but for multiple days it being this cold is extremely unusual and it looks like there's no relief for those of us living down here until this weekend when things will return to "normal" winter conditions.

I just hate events like this because it just gives the ignorant tons of "ammo" to spew their retarded talking points against climate change in their echo chambers, despite not understanding that the very thing they're experiencing is the product of climate change.

>>12706409
You will not be able to shoot hundreds of thousands of people desperate for food and shelter. Even if somehow you pass the abhorrent laws to do so eventually they would be overwhelmed.

>>12711562
Not to be grim, but many modern weapons are quite capable of killing thousands in hours. If something like this ever does kick off, it will make previous plagues and wars look like child's play. Then consider what the people on top think of the people on the bottom, and what will happen when all the labor from the bottom is automated away.

>>12704531
oh ok parties
thought that meant running the government

>>12709996
We don't eat pills off the floor like retards.

>>12711574
You'll have to find weapons that don't need soldiers it's well documented that the troop morale is buried in the shallow graves with the bodies.

>>12702611
Fake+gay

>>12702611
the answer OP is going to basically boil down to "we don't know", and possibly "we can't know".

we can predict changes in variables (e.g. rise in average global temperature, or rise in sea water), but the reality is that what these effects actually mean are unknown, and cannot possibly be known because of how mathematically chaotic the climate is. even something that FEELS like it should be straightforward, like sea level rise, is unpredictable; sea levels rises differently in different places, and at different rates, with some places even experiencing drops. anybody that gives you some other answer is bullshitting you.

>>12710126
>Muh texas today
Kys retard

>>12710126
and the arctic is warmer

>>12702611
>Will the stock market crash once people realize infinite growth is impossible?
pic related
>Climate migrations?
This is something that world governments have signed up for by inaction, and interventionist foreign policy. Take the Syrian refugee crisis and its effects on politics and multiply that by 100 for what's coming. It will be this and the permanent damage to the world's food supply and trade that will be the most direct hits to continued human civilization.

>>12702611
We are unironically going to enter a cold period as the sun settles down from a period of high activity in the last half of the 20th century.

>>12711951
>Make anecdote
>Get BTFO by counter-anecdote
>Emotionally incontinent due to tranny hormones, degenerate to the most important and central argument of the liberalist leftie mind: The ad hominem
Climate justice warrior detected, you'll never be right in looks, argument or gender. The sooner you learn that everything you do is wrong and learn to just shut the fuck up when the real humans are talking the sooner you'll be able to have peace in your warped little mind that never left the toddler stage.

>>12712147
Kys retard

>>12712128
what did he mean by this?

>>12711531
winter like this were common in the south 100 years ago, retard.

Redpill me on Solar Magnetic Fluctuations
Is the Grand Solar Minimum real? Would it lead to hotter summers and colder winters due to reduced solar activity in conjunction with increase GHG?

>>12702940
>A lot of the people who care about this problem are also into anti-nuclear, anti-GMO, etc. activism. They're well-intentioned but dumb.
This 100%. Both sides are controlled. One side proposes dumb and corrupt "solutions" and the other denies climate change in the first place.
This is all on purpose because otherwise the people would be clamoring for new nuclear power plants (possibly with thorium and/or a molten salt coolant) and sanctions on china for their environmental crimes... and you can't have that!

>>12705465
Authoritarian regimes are always subverted by jews.
The white man deserves to be free.

>>12710126
>prediction comes true
>"LMAO SCIENCE BTFO"
big brained guy like you must guzzle down lots of jewish cum

>>12712147
>everyone I don't like is a tranny
This is a response which you have been conditioned to elicit.
You are doing exactly what (((they))) want and you don't even realize it.
You are literally just as bad as the niggers who buy into "systemic racism".
To you, everyone you don't like is a tranny. To them, everyone they don't like is a racist.
The jews control both of you.

>>12712128
the cold snap has nothing to do with the sun retard. It would if regions in the US were having lower than average temperatures not influenced by arctic air masses, that's not what's happening right now, or in any of the previous cold snaps of the last few years.

Texas is currently experiencing some intense global warming.

>>12712558
>everyone I don't like is a jew
This is a response which you have been conditioned to elicit.
You are doing exactly what (((they))) want and you don't even realize it.
You are literally just as bad as the incels who buy into "systemic trannyism".
To you, everyone you don't like is a kike. To them, everyone they don't like is a tranny.
The aliens control both of you.

>>12702940
>I'm concerned that it could lead to the rise of authoritarian and even fascist parties in many countries, e.g. Hungary, Italy, Sweden, and Poland.
This is probably more /pol/ than /sci/ but considering that the 2015 refugee crisis led to the rise of major right-wing parties and authoritarian-esque governments, the future climate migrations will definitely lead to the same. Given the scale will be much bigger I wouldn't be surprised if these parties win in the future. On one hand it is unfortunate, but on the other you cannot expect people to stand by if they feel that they are being invaded. Ideally we fix this issue (global warming) before that becomes a reality. (I don't think we will though).

>>12712549
That's a nice desperate attempt to show the opposite of your prophecy as a true wisdom.

>>12708214
But you are already introducing totalitarian surveillance for covid.

>>12712732
Climate change means more extreme weather. You know this. Honestly, going with "global warming" instead of "climate change" as the name was a terrible idea.

>>12712744
If literally every outcome anywhere supports your theory, then it didn't predict anything useful in the first place.

>>12702611
There is a section in Bohren and Huffman’s Absorption and Scattering of Light by Small Particles that discusses manmade climate change. Essentially it says that, at best, we don’t know how we affect the climate yet. Everyone spouts off CO2 levels but they don’t take into account the differences in troposphere/stratosphere pollutants. The two layers are not thermally coupled, so polluting the stratosphere actually can cool the troposphere while polluting the troposphere can warm it. The book is old but after talking with some meteorologists about it, it seems the conclusions are still valid as of a year ago.

>>12712520
>This is all on purpose because otherwise the people would be clamoring for new nuclear power plants (possibly with thorium and/or a molten salt coolant) and sanctions on china for their environmental crimes... and you can't have that!
I think you may be overestimating people but yes, this is what we should do.

>>12703327
He is against immigrants flooding into his country; acquiring handouts and benefits at his expense; expanding the labor pool to ultimately stagnate wages; and to create, and ultimately codify into law, norms against certain civic freedoms.

>>12706409
>likely change in GDP is like 10% over 100 years
You literally wouldn't notice that.

>>12712732
>spend a fuel tank and some anti freeze
>save thousands of fuel tanks a day
wind power isn't a meme, it works. it will never be a primary source of energy, but it can always augment existing sources.

>unusual weather occurs
>climate change believers claim this is evidence that climate change is getting worse
>climate change nonbelievers claim this is evidence that climate change is a sham
which one is it

>>12702611

>>12713665
As a Russian I can't wait to visit all the Arctic resorts.

>>12713126
>it will never be a primary source of energy, but it can always exist a parasitic source that makes electricity from primary sources more expensive.

you forgot to say what it actually does.

>>12713665
>here's an infographic with scary colors
Cool story bro. God will come back and smite you for being retarded, that's also a scientific computer model and as accurate as your picture.

>>12712454
>Solar Magnetic Fluctuations
pseudoscience with no predictive power
>Grand Solar Minimum real
pretty insignificant overall might slightly slow down warming but probably not enough to even notice.

>>12713634
'unusual' is a rather subjective period, so it's even more difficult to directly attribute it to one thing.
However on the other side of the argument, a localized cold snap isn't really an argument against climate change as all that cold air had to come from somewhere, so one part of the planet is unusually cold but as a result other parts are going to be unusually warm.

>>12710126
Anon, I have some news for you...

>>12702940
>While the EU definitely has the material resources to deal with this situation
Europe has no obligation to take in and house the entire world, you can take your white guilt and white man's burden and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. If Asians and Africans can't overcome the evolutionary pressure of climate change then tough cookies, it's not like the latter had even evolved to our present day civilisations anyway.

Let them die, and all the better authoritarian regimes take hold to protect their own people instead of having a pathological xenophilic fetish.

Can't we just dump a bunch of iron or some shit into the ocean and have the resulting plankton blooms sequester gigatons of carbon?

Should probably work on that just so we can master the planet's temperature regardless, come to think of it.

>>12715098
Problem = solved

It will be an ice age... Just like before the bubonic plague. Also the magnetic poles are moving right now and no mainstream media it's talking about it...

>>12714432

>>12714432
What that means pls I'm retard and stupid also an idiot

>>12715130
Just read the annotations jfc

>>12715104
Why wouldn't this work?

>>12712449
Polar vortex, read on it.

>>12711635
>Nazis are evil killing machines
>Their morale is incapable of shooting invaders

Hungary built a fence and it worked. You just swallow propaganda blindly.

>>12715098
>have the resulting plankton blooms sequester gigatons of carbon?

Yes. Climate change is meant to distract you from real toxic pollution being put into the environment and focus on the plant fertilizer CO2.

If global warming is real how come it's been cold for like a whole week this year

>>12702611
Gretatards: "REEE THE PLANET IS GETTING WARMER, IF WE DON'T EAT THE BUGS TEXAS WILL BE A BURNING SAHARA DESERT BY 2020!!!!!"

*Texas freezes*

Gretatards: "ACHSHHUALLY IT'S NOW CALLED CLIMATE CHANGE".

>>12716463
A brazilian monkey wrote this post

>>12711724
>anybody that gives you some other answer is bullshitting you
anybody that finish argument with statement like that is walking bullshit generator and deserves a rope.

Pic related. Call me back when navier-stokes gets solved

>>12717009
>Pic related
Related to what?

>Call me back when navier-stokes gets solved
Why?

>>12715130
Under "normal" circumstances cold air is contained in the high north by a polar vortex which is powered by the high temperature differential between the pole and mid latitudes. As the earth warms poles get hotter faster than mid latitudes which means the polar vortex weakens. With the polar vortex being weak it increases the chances of cold air pushing south and hot air pushing north. Earth is overall warmer but cold air tends to arrive at continental US as the picture demonstrates.
This naturally triggers the el muttos to come out of the woodwork with claims like "global cooling" or "so much for global warming" or what have you only to get their cocks cut and sent back to their sheds when the year turns out to be one of the warmest on record.
For the record this has happened every single year for at least 5 years now so it shouldn't even be a surprise anymore but here we are again.

Here is today's temperature anomaly map e.g. current temperature vs typical temperature for that area from previous years. As you can see US is lot colder than usual for this time of year which is caused by the hot mass on the pole pushing the cold air south and not by the entire earth mysteriously freezing

>>12717009
Hairy turkrapebabby hands wrote this post

>>12710046
>except for this winter where it's actually been snowing in february.
>>12710126
>See Texas, today.
Thanks for making my point for me, buddy :)

>>12705156
There's nothing wrong with the plot. You're just retarded.

>>12717090
i'll add that the "new normal" is to see a lot more red on that map than blue, as well as more and more red and less and less blue, even if the mean is the last 30 years (because it's accelerating).

>>12705177
>every projection claimed by climatologists uses shaky models
Wrong.

>that predict, without any evidence, exponential growth in all categories as worst case scenarios
This is gibberish. The scenarios are not predictions, they are the basis for predictions. In other words "if these emissions occur then this will be the result."

>In every plot you do this on, the data is incredibly stable whereas the projections are outlandishly ridiculous.
How are you measuring "stability?"

>>12709460
>how come none of the predictions come true?
Like what?

>>12710042
>>>/x/

>>12712147
>>Get BTFO by counter-anecdote
Are you illiterate?

>>12712454
Yawn

>>12718173
He's literally referring to al gore and that newsweek article. Don't bother

>>12713634
>>climate change believers claim this is evidence that climate change is getting worse
No, the evidence has already been shown hundreds of times. This is merely one of many probable effects.

>>12713687
So there's no observable pattern to the fluctuations?

>>12719340
>So there's no observable pattern to the fluctuations?
yes the sun has cycles, but there's absolutely no causative mechanism that connects magnetic fluctuation with climate. The only thing that matters is irradiance and you can see the effect a 'grand solar minimum' would have here >>12718203

>>12702940
First post best post

>>12706409
>>12709958
>>12713014
It is possible to be libertarian (left) and anti-immigrant. Speaking from experience.

>>12706409
The impact from your shithole losing EU gibs (since the EU will collapse) will be worse than whatever benefit you would get from your meme chart.

>>12719781
LMAO seethe germancuck while I swim in neetbucks your socialist woman in chief gave me

>>12719785
>can't argue with facts
>trololol seethe cope dilate, etc
Back to /pol/

>>12719785
i always wonder what sort of man is proud to be a parasite.

>>12702611
>Will the stock market crash once people realize infinite growth is impossible?
t. doesn't understand economics
The stock market doesn't have a ceiling because the dollar doesn't have a floor

>>12719781
Reminder the eu budget is literally less than 1% of its gdp ie it's completely insignificant

>>12719818
>the dollar doesn't have a floor
Nixon's biggest mistake

>>12719816
A comfy one, presumably

>>12705156
>>12705168
>>12705177
Basically this.
Make an inaccurate computer model that uses an over-simplification of how things work.
Run a giant super-calculation to predict the next few years.
Use your inaccurate prediction as a starting point to predict the next few years.
Keep accumulating erroneous data.
Repeat until you hit whatever apocalyptic scenario you want to have.
The science is settled.

>>12719985
>I-i-it's inaccurate! Trust me guys haha, no need to check.
You're pathetic.

>>12719898
Oh a jew you say, whatever nazi idiot

>>12713678
Almost everything in Siberia is build on permafrost. Infrastructure in this part of Russia is literally melting away.

>>12702611

>>12715190
We don't know how to teleport millions of cubic miles of ice.

>>12720293
>people actually believe this is what the world will look like after melting the ice caps.

>>12720293
Aesthetic, islands are great.

>>12717090
> world -0.1C

So a great big nothingburger like usual.