/sci/ - Science & Math

first for urf boing

>>12716008
PROONTFAGS BTFO EDITION

On mars, u eat da poopoo

>>12716029
isaac?

>>12716029
So it'll be just like earth for me, then?

>"If you look at the soil composition of Mars, the one thing that really strikes you is that it's 5 to 14 percent iron oxide," said Dr. Peter Curreri, a materials scientist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center. "It's almost ore-grade material".
Enough said.

>OH GOD, IM, IM GONNA, IM GONNA PROOOONT
https://youtu.be/NmcXbEgac9o?t=2

>>12715574
Asking this again. Have there been any prominent Jews in the American and Soviet space programs besides Robert Zubrin?

>>12716056
>eric berger tweet

>>12716071
yes, tons. Most of the paperclip scientists were either jews, or considered jew related by the nazi's.

>>12716071
Not really, no.

>>12716056
>Donald duck having a stroke

>>12716056
WE ARE STARTING IS BREAD THE RIGHT WAY

>>12716056

>>12716015
Thank you

Space Whale

>>12716056
>SNIIIIIIIF

> Be me, proont coomer
> Selected for Mars mission
> All I want to do is proont and tell people about proonting
> Get to Mars, rest of the crew starts building normal habs, covering them with Martian soil
> I get right down to business with my faithful 3D printer, in pure ecstasy, constant erection, my lifes dream right here
> Habfags telling me to not forget about radiation hardening, don't care, I'll just proont it
> Machine starts failing, no one will help me, say they have other work
> Oh no, regolith is in wrong proportions, printer is clogged with junk
> Clean it out, erection revived
> Building starts getting lopsided, have to stop for more repairs
> Space Mexicans say they can help me fix it
> They can't, building starts tilting more, are these Mexicans retarded?
> Look at armpatch
> ESA
> They are actually retarded
> Been working for months, hand shovelling soil, start succumbing to radiation poisoning
> Won't give into the habfags, I'll get there
mfw dying alone on the floor of an unfinished building surrounded by dead retarded Mexicans

How will the power shortages in Texas affect the launching of SN10? Is it going to be stalled for months?

>>12716226
kek

The absolute state of ESA

>>12716260
We'll be back to our normal """winter""" temperatures by Monday.
Time to get some more sunscreen.

>>12716272
midgets? looks like 100-passenger starship is back on the menu boys

>>12716272

>one small step for a man
>one giant step for a manlet

>>12716272
Isn't the daily cost of having an astronaut on the ISS really expensive? Why on earth would you choose someone to go up there who isn't the best physical condition to maximize productivity each day?

>>12716308
mass efficiency retard less limbs = less mass. manlets = less mass. and it takes less food and air to keep manlets alive.

>>12716324
Why not surgically sever the legs of aspirational ISS astronauts?

>>12716335
And remove one lung, it's redundant

>>12716272
On the surface, I hate this, but mostly because they're doing it out of a "diversity and inclusion" angle.
However, this kind of information is going to be important. Not everyone who lives and works in space will be perfectly healthy, and it'll be interesting to know how it affects someone missing a limb, extra short, too tall, etc.
But this isn't the time to do that. We'll learn all of that through trial and error over the next few decades. But at this stage in the game, it's pointless to waste payload mass on people who aren't as capable.

>>12716335
>tfw no cyborg space gf with removable legs for efficiency

>>12716272
literally nothing wrong with this
having no legs is a complete non-issue when floating in 0g
having no legs gives you higher G tolerance
having no legs means you consume less food and weigh less on takeoff
same goes for manlets

you can't refute this

>>12716272
Actually, if you really think about it, midgets could be quite useful as astronauts, since they take up less space and need slightly less food and water.

>>12716376
>riddled with health problems

>>12716363
plus the image of someone with no legs floating about in zero-g is very funny and would be worth doing it just for that alone

>>12716387
Midgets, not dwarfs.
midget = normal body shape, just smaller
dwarf = genetic condition what that distinctive face

>>12716376

Fellow manlets, it's finally our time
The future is ours

>>12716335
>>12716339
Hello, fellow Rimworld players.

*ゴクン*

>>12716439
SHIT wrong thread

>>12716363
>>12716376
Actual counterargument: 0g sucks, not really safe to experience for more than a year at a time for anyone in any condition, so optimizing for it with a long term condition makes no sense.
That said it's impossible to refute that being smaller will generally be better, even on planets and artificial grav habitats.

>>12716272
What a fucking joke

>>12716363
how could someone with no feet use an EVA suit?

>Force your parents a short drive south, and you'll see the retractable dome of SpaceX's launch facility (not actual size!). You may have heard wild stories about rocket flights and their impact* on nearby towns and communities, but SpaceX feels you can't put a price of space exploration - after all, Rocketeers, you do want to go into space someday... don't you?

>* Statement is figurative and inadmissible as evidence in a court of law.

>>12716272
Just like doctors who ended up on wheelchair after injury can still work in the hospital, because they don't need legs to diagnose a patient, I don't see reason why at the curent stage of prostetics, we woultn't have astronauts who can't use their legs, or have artificial limbs.
Space Dwarf would be problem though, because space station would end up infestated with Tyranids, and they would have to be issued child size spacesuits.

>>12716558
How can you have a space walk with no legs?
It makes no sense!

>https://spacenews.com/russia-china-to-sign-agreement-on-international-lunar-research-station/
Good. Individually the US still BTFOs both programs, but together we might get some real competition. I just wonder if any of their tech will fly on a Starship...

https://twitter.com/Astra
Asstra is inexplicably proud of some engineer they poached from Apple

>>12716639
IMPLESSIVE

>>12716048
So we proont iron buildings?

>>12716048
>mars is going to be full of muscular bearded metal forgers
I want want to be a space blacksmith bros

>>12716272
Not like they're going to launch any of them, but those diversitystronauts sure look nice on paper, don't they?

>>12716048
>Refining iron from ore grade dirt using CO from your oxygen system and some electromagnets
The future’s looking bright

How many hours does Perseverance have left before it touches Mars?

>>12716639
shame libs completely ostracized russia after years of trying to mend relations. I don't blame a country at all for not wanting to deal with the US's schizophrenia though. And yeah, the more competition the better so maybe this works out the best in the long run.

>>12716688
https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive
28 hours

>>12716667
Why not, steel is cheap and robust.
I wonder how small a refining implant and a foundry can be.

>>12716680
>mfw anyone but a fucking WHITE MALE is selected for any astronaut program

>>12716698
Many thanks anon

>>12716696
lmao the only problem with alienating the eternal slav is that it coincides with welcoming back the chinks. We should be alienating both.

>>12716708
The first human on mars was supposed to have been a man in 2005 but the jews wanted it to be a female so they are still looking for a suitable candidate, please understand.

This is a weird question and I'm 100% serious: Does anyone else get really horny while reading about space stuff? I almost always have a boner while on /sfg/ and I usually get hard while reading/watching stuff about exploring Mars or the Moon.
I usually have to stop and fap. (To normal porn, not to space stuff)
I can't be the only one.

>>12716727
>thermal tile anon

>>12716720
take your meds

>>12716727
I got a boner while watching SN8 fly if that counts.

>rant on /sfg/ about Musk going back to WWII-tier material science with his steel starship
>nerds assure me the modern™ steel alloys are the pinnacle of state of art technology
>actually do some research for one minute
>https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1309916454616145920
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_304_stainless_steel
>The composition was developed by W. H. Hatfield at Firth-Vickers in 1924
You faggots have been shitting me all along.

>>12716082
Name two

>>12716335
Makron pls

>>12716736
>Listening to /sfg/
>It was made in 1924 so it's bad

>>12716736
strikes me as a lot more likely that you simply misinterpreted something than anyone actually claiming 304 is new

>>12716733
YOU take my meds

>>12716272
Literal gay retards

It’s a good thing they are basically an even less capable nasa so space is still only accessible to sane organisations for the moment, but I shudder to think that if nasa or esa start hitching rides on starship then they will turn space into a new set for their comedy.

>>12716736
304L != 304
Close, but no cigar.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to watch the Mars landing because I keep losing power for hours at a time.

>>12716736
>The Japanese equivalent grade of this material is SUS304
hehe based elon
amogus

it seems that Grimes is stuck in Texas without power and with Musk's son... lol is Biden seriously letting everybody freeze to death or wud
t.european btw

>>12716272
>midgits space niggers
I hoped we get mars niggers first

>>12716778
>Austin
And nothing of value was lost

>>12716778
>lol is Biden seriously letting everybody freeze to death or wud
Well, Texas didn't vote for him.

>>12716779
1992 space movie

>>12716734
Considering how close it resembles a dildo I think that's pretty gay.
But yes, it's normal.

>>12716778
Joe Biden does not care about white people

>>12716778
Democrats are aware of where their support actually is so don’t expect any support.

Heres your future Estronaut!

>>12716798
>1992 space movie
>gayniggers from outer space
kek

>>12716804
>Tfw ywn be able to fondle her breasts and fuck her chicken nugget body

>>12716778
Not Bidens fault Texas refused to connect their power grid to the national grid-

T. another european

>>12716794
Austin did.

>>12716778
Texas has a separate power grid from the rest of the USA. Even if the feds wanted to help (I'm sure they're trying) the infrastructure isn't there, because of texan's retarded separatist tendencies.
They voted for this. Sowing is fun, reaping not so much.

>>12716727
>furries
>ksp fapper
>zubrin sniffer
>this fucking guy
Why is /sfg/ so degenerate?

>>12716822
Normie tier, the rest of us are too degenerate to talk about our degeneracy here

>>12716778
>Blaming Biden for the weather because you're still salty he won

>>12716778
Why not buy some wood and burn it to keep warm?

>>12716822
>not getting at least a half-chub during a rocket launch
What are you, gay? For me it is big explosions.
>>12716827
>doesn't know about the Executive Office of Weather Manipulation
George Bush really just didn't like New Orleans after once being served bad crawfish on a trip there. The more you know!

>>12716828
>Why not buy some wood
I guess you have better chance of finding some wood yourself if the nearest shop is kilometers away
people in the desert are pretty fucked tho
for normal people ofc, Grimes can burn money if she wants to keep warm

>>12716839
Buy cheap furnitures to chop em/burn, run gas generators to power heater/electricity, solar panels, etc.

>>12716843
Set fire to a Mcdonalds, stand next to your new delicious-smelling bonfire.

>>12716828
>>12716839
>Not using geothermal storage and heat pumps for HVAC
You get plenty of hot sun in the summer, save some for later

>>12716681
This is why Elon wants nukes. Cheap iron plus cheap energy means all it takes is some smaller parts (batteries, electronics, etc.) to build Starships locally. Starship can SSTO on Mars... but that means so can the full stack. No need for orbital refueling if you can send TSTO Starships to the Belt, with Starship reaching LMO fully fueled.

>>12716481
0G is fucked, the effects on the body are horrendous, it messes with basically every biological system
At yet we still don't know anything about partial gravity. Or whether just getting in a centrifuge once a day slows down all the health problems.
The actual ISS module to test this stuff is now sitting in a fucking driveway after being cancelled reeeeee

>>12716802
No white people in texas

>>12716008
Alright bro’s good and bad news. The good news is that I’ve resized the modules to fit in a 3.75 meter cargo bay, so our Starship clone can indeed lift these. The bad news is that I still have yet to design a drive stage for the modules.

In other news I’ve completed the crewed Ascent/Descent vehicle. It can carry 8 down to the surface and back while hung fully reusable. I’ve made adjustments to the ISRU module and now I can fuel the thing up in about a month which is great. Landing 8 crew at a time reduced the number of trips to just 20 crewed landings which is not that bad. But yeah the ISRU module is fed charge from the solar-powered Power module, which fuels up the “Fuel Rover” which then fills up the DADV’s tanks in two trips. It’s pretty cool.

Last bit of news is kinda bad. The base barely operates with Kerbin’s level of solar energy. I don’t know if I’ll be able to power mining operations on Duna at this point.

>>12716839
>>12716778
Do Americans not have these?

>>12716778
Why the fuck is it the president's job to do anything?

>>12716880
How many days of gas do you keep in your shed

>>12716880
I've got a decent space heater but I never have to use it because our grid is resistant to yearly dumps of snow up in da midwest.

>>12716886
A single bottle like that lasts at least a few days, anon

>>12716895
if you live in a 2 cubic meters room maybe

>>12716665
i remember the shilling for this shit movie in the media.
A bit the same like the shilling for that retarded chinese scfi book that netflix is going to make a serie about.

>>12716895
How does it not kill me with the exhaust

https://youtu.be/SO6__cLGkYw

>>12716934
CO alarms are cheap and last 10 years, all you need desu

>>12716883
Because dems have been screaming for the last 4 years that everything bad that happend in the US is the fault of orange man.

>NASA Perseverance hits Elon's Tesla

>>12716949
>Cybertruck with an oxygen tank runs over Perseverance

>>12716939
I knew I recognized the EDL lead, so cool he was there for curiosity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ1UAGy0AY0

>>12716949
The roadster is orbiting the sun though, right? I thought it purposefully missed Mars despite being able to hit it, for fear of (((contamination risk))).

>>12716966
Yes, that guy is clearly a redditor.

>>12716958
>The virgin rover
>THE CHAD CYBERTRUCK

>>12716973
Gradually, I grew to hate them.

>>12716966
yes it's orbiting the Sun and it was never meant to land on Mars but not for contamination reasons
just for the lulz of letting it fly infinitely

>>12716071

>>12716071
Jim Bridenstine

>>12716980
Why is space so Kino damn

>>12716984
>it was never meant to land on Mars
What does the Starman eat?? Can Hubble go get him and bring him home? How do rockets get through the firmament?
>>12716998
It simply is, anon.

>>12717005
What altitude would you say Space begins? The Karman line is 100 kilometers up but an orbit that low still decays in under a day.

>>12716272
Losing bone density an issue?
We'll just send astronauts with less bones!

A single Starship, assuming 110 tons of payload capacity, could supply a Mars base of 60 colonists with 200g of buckwheat each, per day, for almost 25 years
>flying silos

>>12716774
>not 304R

>>12717020
Edge of the atmosphere where you stop encountering enough drag to pull you back in a hurry. I dunno, 120 miles? Arbitrary ass-pull but I'll stick with that, about a two-hour drive in one direction only upwards. That's a helpful visualization of scale for me, as I know the distance between two points on the ground.

This is Evil Fun
Watch
https://youtu.be/3VCRg-cdLiQ

>>12716736
the basic/original spec was developed in the 20s, but the modern stuff is leaps and bounds above that

>>12717031
I dont think starship can land 110tons on mars.

>>12717047
this is very gay

>>12717031
space gruel is still gruel

>>12716858
Starships can SSTO to the belt from Mars

>>12717052
this, a lot of stuff was invented on paper way in the past that took decades to actually build because of improved techniques.

>>12717061
They're aiming for 100 tons for existing starships, if they go with the 3mm thick steel like from SN7.2 then it could probably get 110

Reading terraforming autists going on about SF6.
Go look it up, actually ultra heavy gas, perfectly safe, elements readily available in situ
Why not flood a lavatube with this gas, where it would sit at the bottom undisturbed?
Trying to do calculations but I'm sure they are fucked and likely overestimating.
At 750m depth with one third gravity, you'd be looking at about 0.15 atm, well above the Armstrong limit of 0.6 atm. But that's using the density value at room temp, so I'm guessing the end value is much higher at colder temperatures.
Can't find anything on the deepest lavatubes or what the density of SF6 is at say -40°C.

Still would be neat, no need for airlocks, could just drive straight in. People could walk around inside wearing jackets and oxygen rebreathers.

>>12717072
To LEO, sure, but landing a fully loaded starship is a completly different thing, even on mars gravity.

>>12716966
It's pretty much back at Earth rn
https://www.whereisroadster.com/

>>12716958
It's hilarious how much lower they managed to push the fabrication cost, I think this chart is from when they played carbon fiber still

>>12717095
yea it will be very close in one month of so... I wonder if someone with a huge telescope will be able to see it...

>>12716272
I'm fine with this. It's just the art style of the poster that's annoying, coupled with the fact that reddit and twitter will try to hound this. In theory though it's fine if ESA wants to send up an astronaut without a leg or something.

>>12716272
I want her to be an astronaut too anons...

>>12717076
Why not make a piss air lock and pressurize the place?

>>12717131
Honestly in zero g would having plastic/metal legs make much difference? Just to check they should put some cripples up on a vomit comet, if they haven't already. Yes I know about Hawking but he wasn't exactly at his most limber when he did that.

>>12717076
SF6 is shit and will never be used for terraforming, because it's toxic in the long term for the human body. Plus it's very difficult to make, we don't have enough sulfur and fluorine available on Earth to terraform a whole planet.

>>12716736
American manufacturing and metallurgy is way more decadent then a lot of people think. Hell, back in the 2000s the USA literally forgot how to produce a crucial material used in nuclear warheads(FOGBANK) and had to reverse engineer it to understand how to do it again.

>>12717121
"A telescope about 7,274 ft (2,217 m) in diameter would be required to resolve the Upper stage from Earth. A smaller one could see him as an unresolved dot, about 14.0 ft (4.3 m) in diameter, in ideal conditions."

Yeah I don't think we have 2km telescopes just yet

>>12716008
IT CREEPS and LEAPS and GLIDES and SLIDES Across the floor, Right through the door. And all around the wall! A splotch, a blotch! The first step in testing out any new additive manufacturing process is making a blob with vaguely the shape you wanted. Then comes process optimization to make things better, which you can do if your process isn't inherently shit. This process may be inherently shit.

>>12717143
really lower limb amputees' main concerns would be whether they can perform capsule and pad escape procedures, and what extra considerations do they need for microgravity exercise routines?

>>12717167
well seeing the moving dot would already be something... one could make a nice video timelapse of it

>>12717164
that's what happens when you try to classify how to make a thing

>>12716056
>>12716021
I see the falmar are butthurt again over their retarded tunnel designs

>>12717217
>that's what happens when you try to classify how to make a thing
It is not limited classified stuff either(and you would assume that non-retard powers that be would want to write how to make such a crucial strategic component down and put it into a vault or some shit).
There is this one case where a guy had to hunt down a bunch of retired boomers to make a manual of how to operate a oil rig(I think) because no one else knew how to do it.

>>12716226
>starts building normal habs,
So they are printing as well?

>>12717144
Never said terraforming, that's for retards. Just saying to fill up a cavern with it. From what I see it's perfectly safe and inert,
Costs to produce it are high on Earth because of crazy strict GHG regulations and people needing high purity for industrial applications. If you don't need that you can literally just put elemental sulfur and fluorine together at a few hundred degrees.

>>12717136
I was thinking more just have tubs of piss to bathe in and not worry about sealing the place up.

>>12717168
I'm always in here mocking proonters but not gonna lie, really think the metal additive 3d printing is wild. It's early days too, price is only coming down. Say a guy get a custom intake for his car made just for a few extra HP

>>12717291
I don't want to breathe trace amounts of fluorine and sulfur gas

>>12717308
plus it's slowly degraded by uv radiation in the atmosphere and causes acid rains of sulfuric acid

>>12716048
Has anyone ever doubted that Mars will be the forge world of the human stellar civilisation? It has everything, a ton of iron, low but existing gravity, and access to the belt.
>hurr warhammer
Yeah it's neat, but not everything is a reference.

>>12716811
kill yourself you stupid faggot. How in the fuck is a southern state supposed to be prepared for a fucking snow storm? Again, die and take your family with you

>>12716736
Bread was invented in 10 000 BC. Guess it's obsolete.

>>12717335
I want to build the iron ring

I'll go check out the OP prooonter on Friday, see if it's still in the shamble state when I took those pics

>>12717345
behold, current year

>>12717352
I'll pass

>>12717167
I'm sure some autist at a big observatory will try to find it on closest appraoch

>>12717345
>food analogy
I wonder why aerospace industry doesn't use horses to tow stuff around.

>>12716998
>Jim Bridenstine
Damn is he really
>>12716991
So sick of their overrepresentation

>>12716071
The space shall never have them. Look up what happened to the first Israeli astronaut. Nature doesn't allow contamination to spread.

>>12717360
No, Jim is not

>>12717352
The only way I'd eat bug powder is if it was mixed in with actual meat. I'm either the apex predator or I don't eat bugs, simple as.

>>12717345
hahaha
thundercucks btfo

>>12717374
I’d eat bugs if I had no other option. If I was living on Mars and my food consisted of bugs and algae crackers I’d be okay.

>>12717352
I'm actually not against bug food as long as it isn't forced on us

>>12716991
this one borrowed some non-jewish genes somewhere else though... not 100% jewish for sure

>>12717358
"aerospace would never use something old" he says, while complaining about aerospace using something old

>>12717372
Thats what I thought

>>12717352
How is it? But why would they make it so expensive?

>>12717381
why would there ever be no other option? Eggs and fish and various sea foods are as good or better than bugs in every way

>>12717394
I was being hypothetical. How hard will it be to feed a colony? NASA says a person needs 900 kilos of food per year to be healthy, which is about 900 tons of food per year for a colony with 1000 people (9 Starships to Mars, or 72 Starship launches if you include the tankers).

>>12717394
eggs are more resource intensive than insects to produce though... maybe shrimps would be more acceptable?

>be 1987
>A normal day in Soviet Union
>Energia rocket launches 1 MW anti-satellite laser weapon "Пoлюc"
Those were the days

>>12717394
>>12717415
>>12717381
Vat-grown meat is literally entering the market right now.

>>12717425
is it already sold somewhere?

>>12717437
Apparently Signapore.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

>>12717425
What about this? Can we make it on Mars?

>>12717425
Vat grown meat and insects will be the only protein on mars for a while.

>>12717449
>Testing it on the asians
I guess thats one way to do it

>>12716736
>Delightfully counterintuitive

>>12717406
Taking all the foodstuffs on the way is terribly wasteful, they would only be furnished for the trip. Water and nutrients are readily ISRU-able, at most I could see them busing in trace nutrients as a hedge which would occupy very little excess mass. Also poundage is a terrible way to measure food intake since it varies drastically depending on the ratio of fats/protein/carbs in the diet as well as water and fiber content.

>>12717463
What will the insects eat?

>>12717381
I'd rather be vegetarian/vegan than eat bugs. Fuck that.
Meatless Indian food is awesome.

>>12717476
Grass and plants we grow. Wait a minute.

>>12717374
Driving to McDonalds and buying a big mac does not make you an apex predator.

Relativity Space, which is without a doubt the next SpaceX, has just released a powerful video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYi7HimkYdE&pbjreload=101

I would like you all to take a moment to think about diversity, equity and inclusion, and about what you are doing to advance anti-racism and combat neo-colonialism in space.

>>12717476
intruders

>>12717476
Tesla shortsellers

>>12717476
failed proonters

>12717491
Don't reply to trolls.

>>12717492
>>12717497
>>12717500
>violent
>poor judgment skills
>easily manipulated
this is how you get prions

>>12717503
are you new you dumb fucking faggot? I'm just sharing some SJW sheboon cringe in newspace, you need me to spell out "I HATE NIGGERS" in all caps?

>>12717476
A lot less than any other protein providing animals

>>12717491
So they're basically just focusing on social media campaigns and company "holidays" to be woke. This is what happens when you let glorified HR drones feel like they're intelligent.

>>12717460
From the people that will inevitably die with colonisation, sure. We have to be prudent with our limited bio resources.

>>12716008
Reminder that printers have shown proof of concept and are the preferred method of construction in space. They asked Elon about tunnels at the Mars Society a few months ago and he flat out said NO boring company is for traffic alleviation. not mars

>>12717528
>those droopy loops of plastic

>>12717528
I have nothing against printers but it seems inefficient. Why not just print bricks, stack them, then spray foam to make an airtight seal?

>>12717528
On a scale of 1 to baghdad bob how much cope are you going to spew when mars is colonized and there are 0 people living in buttplugs

>>12717510
He can't even link to a comment properly of course hes new. Also i heard astra is also sjw retardation, is that true?

>>12717521
yeah, it's why I think RocketLab and Firefly will be the only survivors out of the half dozen smallsat launchers. Firefly seems to have a solid engineering focused leadership which doesn't waste money on loud sheboons with sociology degrees, they might just make it in this harsh new-space market. Astra and Relativity will fucking die.

>>12717381
>>12717425
>>12717463
nigga, beans exist

The space mexicans can refry that shit and add some cheese. Throw in some chickens and some goats for milk and you're all set for protein.

>>12717537
Anon you don't need to print bricks you literally just press them, it's one step with nothing to fuck up

>>12717539
Yes, their launcher is shit and has no future. Firefly and obviously RocketLab are the only ones I have hope for, they have based and redpilled leadership.

>>12717513
Every spring the Earth's demiurge spawns thousands of millions of bugs that feed bigger animals.
The Mars map is disabled due to massive trolling and no lifeforms will be spawned. Also no magnetosphere. Whatever you carry there will die.

>>12717537
Thats a 3 step process with more materials needed than just printing a structure shape
>>12717532
That was caused by the time constraints of the competition as well as the scale and thickness of the model. NASA had stated that these are 1/3 the size and that the walls would be 3'-4' thick. So the layers would have more time to cool and not droop off

>>12717538
>0 people living in buttplugs
I don't imagine they will live in buttplugs, but their habs will be 3d printed. How much cope are you going to have when they start printing structures remotely in a few years?

spreaking of printing this is pretty cool: https://twitter.com/relativityspace/status/1362129115898212354

Bulkhead design is interesting. Not just a simple dome.

>>12717549
Well i was going to dump a lot of money into their IPO but that just stopped me. Fuck them

>>12717547
Yeah even better. Why don’t we make brick bases then?

>>12717549
Why did they do this Jesus Christ. They probably are 99% white anyways goddamn I hate white liberals

>>12717545
Alright bro’s I’ve been thinking. Are Hispanics the future of the human race (in a good way). They’re
>90% Catholic
>Strong family ties
>Incredibly work ethic
>Breed like rabbits
I may be biased because I’m Venezuelan but seriously I hate how white people are so self flagellating

>>12717510
There's no need to get upset.

Are you a bot or a conservative? It seems like bots and conservatives tend to talk exclusively in memes.

>>12717539
I did that on purpose to avoid giving him a (you)

>>12717551
>more materials needed than just printing a structure shape
It always makes me laugh when proonterfag pretends that proonting takes no resources or infrastructure. There is nothing he hates more than admitting to upstream resource usage. Here is a perfect example as he believes that pressing literal omnipresent martian soil is more intensive than preparing the same amount in specialty basalt polymer.

>>12717550
>Whatever you carry there will die.
A cricket farm requires no space. Although i do wonder if bugs is a way to terraform

>>12717567
you have to go back

>>12717562
Excellent, doesn't rocketlab also print some of their parts?

>>12717556
I cope by knowing that the majority of prints will fuck up in some form and be warped as shit, leading to inhospitality.

>>12717576
beep boop

>>12717566
The future is all of the cool Americans going to space and all of the shitty, ignorant ones getting stuck on earth.

Black, white, mexican, it doesn't matter. There's no room for bullshit up there.

>>12717567
>reddit/chink spacing
>"antiracist"
Checks out

@12717567
>I did that on purpose to avoid giving him a (you)
The syntax for that is this, Redditlet.

>>12717576
>frogposting
>trumpmeming
Get back in your pen

>>12717579
Their engine is 3D printed... or at least parts of it. Don't remember which it is.

>>12717562
>relativity space

>>12717583
I wish more people had this mindset. Why are race relations so bad? It’s literally some superficial shit what the hell man

>>12717567
>>12717583
who the fuck is this retarded double spacing redditor, and what is he doing here?

>>12717588
>This woman weighs about the same as the max payload of our rocket

>>12717567
Why are you doing this Jesus

>>12717592
It's all jews trying to mix us all into uncomfortable positions and make us fight each other instead of them.

>>12717592
(((they)))know how to divide and conquer
Some people fall for it.

>>12717571
>basalt polymer.
Not the only option. And are you really arguing that making bricks out of martian concrete, making mortar, stacking them, and the spraying it with a non In situ foam is somehow the same or less resource dependent as printing martian concrete in a layered shape?

>>12717592
You let one of them in, you are letting all of them in. This century will define the future of humanity, whether it's space faring or back to the mud hutts.

>>12717605
The Jews probably like the existence of furfags.

>>12717592
divide et impera

>>12717581
And you are basing this on what exactly? Have you ever even used a 3d printer?

>>12717592
Who cares, fuck this gay Earth quite literally.

>>12717600
based ITS

>>12717586
>>>reddit.com/r/space

>>12717598
>>12717584
imagine getting this mad at pressing the enter button twice.

Modern conservatives are more fragile than the space shuttle heat shield tiles

>>12717583
>Black, white, mexican, it doesn't matter. There's no room for bullshit up there.
If there's no room for bullshit up there then you won't see the blacks and mestizos up there. Also its pretty telling that the diverse NASA is getting BTFO by the white SpaceX

>>12717621
I'm the cunt who posted those photos of his printed models getting fucked up by an accidental planar translation.

>>12717605
0/10

>>12717592
>It’s literally some superficial shit
Sadly not true.

>>12717626
kek, nice trolling, you had me.

>>12717592
>>12717583
Samefag

>>12717637
that retard needs to seriously fuck off

>>12717626
Yes, but they also get shit done, like the shuttle once did. You trannies are like the SLS, never doing anything of importance while costing way more than you should.

>>12717606
Not concrete. Sulcrete is also more intensive than mechanically pressed brick, that's half the point. Also I'm not the guy that suggested foam, and if you wanted to make the brick structure just as strong and airtight as your proont structures sealing them together with sulcrete would work fine while using much less of it. The other option would be to leave them as is and inflate internally with a thin membrane taking up very little mass.

>>12717571
>>12717606
>not using bedrock, a material that is already hard enough to maintain structural integrity

>>12717628
Okay so because you are retarded you think the astronauts will be?

>>012717598
trying too hard to fit in anon

>Fragile /pol/fags once again seething because non-white people exist, and are getting more done for space then they will ever do.

>>12717652
How deep is Martian bedrock? How are you going to dig to it?

>>12717653
The point wasn't about me, it was about the machines themselves you fantastically retarded motherfucker.

>>12717660
you're not trying hard enough

>>12717664
>t.

>>12717667
>How deep is Martian bedrock?

You'd need geological surveys to answer that conclusively, but you should do that anyway because want to know what resources you can ISRU before you select a base location

>How are you going to dig to it?

Robot escavators.

Once the first foundries and machine shops get set up, you can use mostly ISRU for those.

>>12717675
>robot
Stopped reading there.
Why are you people so obsessed with automating things that don't even have an established process yet? You literally don't know the first thing about the strengths and weaknesses of automation.

>>12717667
bedrock usually starts at around y=4

>>12717664
cope

>>12717690
lel

>>12717646
Okay but in that same context you could print a structure out of sulcrete. The extra steps of making bricks is literally retarded. You need to make the process as simple as possible and that means slowly pouring a single part structure that can be pressurized.

>>12717683
>Why are you people so obsessed with automating things that don't even have an established process yet?

Because a machine plus five pounds worth of computer equipment is easier to bring than a machine plus 180 pounds of meat, plus literal tons of life support equipment.

Everything on Mars will be automated because it's easier to work out an automation procedure on earth and then just ship the technology over than it is to bring a ton of unnecessary colonists.

The rules for Mars will be never to have a human do a job that a computer can do, and never to bring something from earth if you can make it on Mars. Only then will we have colonies that are efficient enough to actually be useful.

>>12717698
That requires a printer which is gay, and using more sulcrete when you could have substituted the literal ground under your feet with minimal post-processing instead which is retarded. Stop being a gay retard.

>>12717668
So you messed up something and you blame the machine while 2 seperate teams showed that they could build a working structure under time constraints and remotely. The competition showed how the tech works, you showed how you are retarded

Space travel is canceled. Soon the polar vortex will collapse and we will be stuck in a thousand-year ice age with no way to leave Earth. Everyone will live in in Antarctica and all of the pajeets that NASA needs for code monkey positions will starve to death in a famine.

I finally just got power back in Texas and a thought hit me.
Perseverance lands tomorrow and there is a high possibility of NASA in Houston having no power. What then?

>>12717701
>we'll just run some simulations on earth and it will work on mars, trust me
You are fucking retarded.

>>12717714
>trigger runaway global cooling
>just burn even more fossil fuel

easiest apocalypse ever

>>12717693
Even Elon hates this guy lmao, literally laughs at the mention of him
https://youtu.be/m_9JANC78X4?t=2

>>12717675
That is so much extra work and time.
>>12717683
Because manpower is the most valuable thing on mars and also the most expensive part.

>>12717714
That sounds a LOT more comfy than a global heat wave, whites are best suited to live in the cold. Lazy apes live in the heat, the cold forges hard men.

>>12717716
They definitely have backup generators to their generators. Also if I remember correctly the mission control for this is at JPL, not Houston.

>>12717711
>That requires a printer which is gay
So you have no argument other than your dislike for it

>>12717716
I'm sure NASA is on the federal grid with backup reserves, not texan's shit grid that runs on spit and cow patties.

>>12717725
>muhhh manpower
>keeps proposing solutions which require more man hours in babysitting and recovering failure prone "automated" processes than doing it the right way would have

>>12717720
this, spam natural gas plants and district heating. It would be so comfy.

>>12717714
You wish.

>>12717729
No, that's a shorthand because I'm sick of having the literal exact same discussion every time you show up. And it'

>>12717737
...And it's not even the crux of the argument, whoops.

>>12717719
Simulations?

Literally just set it up in a desert in New Mexico and make it dig holes. It would be a retarded waste of resources to do any kind of industrial process on Mars without first perfecting it on earth.

If we want to actually colonize Mars, there would be a support element on earth that prototypes new systems so that the colony can just take the research from earth and apply it. That way the actual humans on the colony can accomplish massively more, without 90% of the man-hours going to pointless busywork.

>>12717744
>can't a one inch hole five feet down
>just trust me bro it'll work this time i can go all the way to bedrock
No.

>>12717731
>require more man hours in babysitting and recovering failure prone "automated" processes than doing it the right way would have
You can do it remotely from earth, you can also fo it with one man on mars. How many astronauts and heavy equipment are you going to need to dig to fucking bedrock, make bricks, make mortar, stack them and seal them? Every astronaut on mars is going to cost a shit load of money and will need to be used for setting up much more important and demanding infrastructure. Printers xan make launch pads, structures, skeletons for buried objects and they can make parts for things like rokets and spacesuits

>>12717737
You have never provided a good argument and you are going to buttmad after the first mission

>>12717767
Ironically, pressing and placing bricks is a process which is actually easily automated unlike half the shit you people recommend because you have no fucking brains.

>>12717078
The low gravity makes it easier, anon. Easier.

>>12717766
No shit capabilities are going to change if we can launch 100 ton payloads at a time, and we have technicians on site troubleshooting with zero latency.

What exactly do you think it is that an AI can't do that a regular equipment operator can? People have been mining on earth for thousands of years, and it's literally the same operation. Shit, we already have 90% automated processes for goal mining.

>>12717776
>using a material with almost zero tensile strength to build a pressure vessel

>>12717776
Show me proof of concept

>>12717785
>What exactly do you think it is that an AI can't do that a regular equipment operator can?
improvise

>>12716008
Stop responding to the political spammer guy he’s either a troll or a Reddit tourist just leave him be

>>12717798
You now realize that if it's a manned colony, the machine can just shut down and wait for a remote operator to tell it what to do.

This is what AI vehicles do on earth. 99% automated, then remotely piloted when it encounters a problem that it doesn't know how to solve. Bam, you just enabled one guy to do the work of 100.

>>12717802
we already did that 20 replies ago

>>12717776
And you think that'll be ready by 2024? Kek

>>12717785
Automated processes are great when you have a well determined input and output with minimal variability. A process that you haven't even done once with traditional methods is not in this camp. And AI has nothing to do with this, that's you throwing out buzzwords like the braindead cunt you are, AI requires feeding thousands of hours of good data to get a functional result.

>>12717809
I’m pretty sure SpaceX doesn’t get to Mars in 2024. They have zero ISRU work done. How will they mine ice robotically?

>>12717811
>A process that you haven't even done once
A bunch of architects and a bunch of college staff did it on the first try without much problem. I don't see giw a professional team couldn't get a few perfect runs on earth before they send it

>>12717825
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>12717825
>Trusting NASA to do something this complex without blowing billions of dollars and 40 years of R&D on it
Yeah hahah, this is cute

>>12717824
The first few cargo missions are going to be supplying and laying out a solar farm, a landing pad and building the propellant plant. It's been said by elon that it'll be automated. That almost certainly means a printer for the pad

>>12717830
Keep up

>>12717836
No you, moron. You're going off on some random bullshit. You jumped into a discussion about digging with more of your fucking proont shit you dumb cunt.

>>12717842
>what are you talking about
Is not an argument, also this is a print thread faggot. You jumped into a conversation about habs with your autisticly massive workload and resource demanding dig plans.

>>12717851
Just follow the comment string, retard. This is not your thread.

The fake reddit shitposters have a right to post their dumb bait, even if it is annoying. Those of you who are dumb enough to fall for it and reply to them are the real idiots.

>>12717856
>/sfg/ - Space Flight General: pront edition
K, maybe you should reread the chain.

>>12717860
Amen brother amen

>>12717861
Last thread was >RIP 1059 edition, that doesn't mean every single post was literally about 1059. You are not the star, you are just prolific enough of a shitposter that someone decided to make a jab at you without realizing it would trigger your autism even more.

>>12717856
>>12717842
Imagine getting this mad at lights on a screen

>>12717811
There is a pretty well determined input and output. The input is "where dig" and the output is "where the tunnel is"

Obviously, you have to prototype on earth rather than in situ, but it's a simpler, more mature technology than proonting.

Also, you could use the bricks that that other guy is posting about to stabilize the tunnel walls.

>>12716302
anon that's a niglet

>>12717870
Here are some in the chain you are talking about discussing printing
>>12717571
>>12717551
>>12717537
>>12717606
And of course the start of the comment chain you are replying to
>>12717528
So tell me again how we aren't talking about printing vs standard methods and how the comment chain i was replying to is about digging

>>12717890
Jesus fucking christ you are retarded. At least the other retard got it right >>12717885

>>12717893
You are the retard here. See >>12717791

>>12717893
>gets caught in a lie
>y-you are retarded
Kek.

>>12717909
You not understanding how to contextualize something is not a "lie", retard.

I still haven't seen a good explanation of how the magic buttplug printer will extract itself from Starship, assemble itself, test the soil for stability, level an acre of land, conduct ISRU on it's own, all before it can begin PROOOONTing

or you can just send Miguel, a welding torch and a bunch of 3mm sheet steel

https://eyes.nasa.gov/apps/orrery/#/sc_perseverance

22 1/2 hours

I have no idea what's happening

>>12717920
Gay shitposting orgy, talk about spaceflight instead

>>12717920
>>12717920
kek

ITT

>>12717905
Again this is just pulling something out at random. And isn't that exactly what proonting is? You want to make pressurized structures out of unreinforced concrete.

>>12717915
I’m all for cannibalizing the first few Starships

>>12717885
>>12717893
>automated pressurized brick laying is a more matured tech than printing
Are you guys seriously going to claim this in a thread that has posted both printed model habs and a printed pressurized rocket stage?

>>12717924
Buncha retards in here not posting about spaceflight

>>12717934
What the fuck is going on in this picture?

>>12717911
>You jumped into a discussion about digging with more of your fucking proont shit you dumb cunt.
>Just follow the comment string, retard. This is not your thread.
Hmmm
>You not understanding how to contextualize something is not a "lie", retard.
>>12717528 is the context anon, it is the root of the discussion. You were caught in a lie. Accept it and move on

>>12717934
arguing about the best way to erect habs on Mars is pretty directly spaceflight related

>>12717939
He's wondering if he could space a cosmonaut faster than the rest of the crew could stop him.
He's not malicious, just curious.

>>12717930
Christ man DYOR

>>12717941
Jesus fucking christ, the right anon even responded because other people know how to fucking read, why are you continuing to push this?

>>12717931
Shiny steel everything is the future,
and it's fucking awesome

>>12717948
>D'oh, You Officially Right
correct

>>12717953
Dude you got caught, get over it.

>>12717954
>boring company
>on mars
>after elon said it wasn't going to mars

>>12717981
Elon also said Starship would have transpiration cooling and that SH won't have legs

not everything Elon says ends up being true

>>12717975
>>12717652 is where the discussion turned to digging, retard, none of the responses to that post were about you

>>12717987
Elon only stopped talking about it because the tech is ITAR restricted dumbass.

>>12717993
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IpxYEFWFvg

>>12717987
>be Elon, say tunneling might be the future of mars
>start boring company to figure out if its viable
>turns out its not viable for the early colony for various reasons
>tell the mars society that the boring company isn't going to mars
>no one believes me

>>12717993
Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.

>>12717988
That was a rebuttal to two separate printing questions, a rebuttal is not a seperate conversation, the conversation is still talking about printing vs conventional methods and digging. Also digging to bedrock to make bricks is retarded.

The only thing worse than a proontfag is an anti-proontfag

Can you two faggots stop sperging at each other and fuck off?

>>12718016
I was talking about how dumb his idea was and you had to come in with your proont shit, fuck you and the horse you rode in on you dumb motherfucker

>>12718012
Do we know what'll happen now he's gone?

>>12718020
>>12718026
Talk about something else then retards. It's not my fault I'm 100% right and this guy won't shut up.

>>12717734
best christmas tree ever

>>12718031
Nope, we have an Interim-Administrator at the moment and it will probably last months until the Senate gets off their ass and approves a new one. Or Biden forgets it exists and we wait until 2022 when Kamala pulls off her coup for the first woman (female) NASA Administrator.

>>12718041
>I'm right so I get to fill up the thread with endless spergy replies

Fuck off, no one cares about your beef with some other random sperg.

>>12718031
Well the track record for NASA when biden was last in power isn't good. Last time the scuttled space exploration programs, cut funding and then said they were going to focus on climate study (low cost programs that still sound good). Luckily I believe the governme t has their hands tied now with SpaceX China,Russia and various European countries close to surpassing NASA in space exploration. Since something like that would lead to not being reelected i believe they wont cut those programs nearly as much

>>12718056
Amazing quality posts you're filling it up with instead.

>>12718028
>I was talking about how dumb his idea was
There it is, you wanted to lead the conversation away and you are butthurt about it. You replied to a printing comment chain with an argument against printing. People are going to argue right back. Stop being a fucking idiot and get over it

>>12716341
>Not everyone who lives and works in space will be perfectly healthy

They should be. Anyone who isn’t perfectly healthy should die.

>>12717734
Based Baseduzposter

>>12716272
Glad Europe is dying

>>12718041
What are you right about? They proved your bedrock idea to be retarded (it is, as if you brought digging equipment like that you would simply build underground habs) and now you are sperging out about them talking about printing. If you don't like your ideas being challenged then feel free to return to reddit

>>12718061
The post you're crying about was not about printing. It was about anon's idea of an automated bedrock drilling robot. This is your last chance, do you understand or not?

>>12718057
The public wouldn’t care if spaceflight was outright banned

>>12718065
Please keep your edgyness away from my balloon tanks and inflated habs

>>12718098
Please avoid displaying your revolting deformities to others.

>>12718080
>do you understand or not
Lets go back because you clearly do not
>>12717528 is the start of the comment chain which you replied to with >>12717652 which is arguing that instead of printing they should use bedrock people then told you that was a stupid idea and that printing accomplishes the same thing with less effort and less resources. You then went full reptard and started complaining about us talking about printing. So are you ready to shut the fuck up and move on or do you still need to be an autist?

Musk & Co saved 6000 turtles in boca chica! https://youtu.be/mOGP1xnTQeg

>>12718081
True however they would care if someone said russia or china beat them at something

Bros just the mere thought of huge rockets and a new chink-usa moon race this decade makes me giddy

>>12718065
>>12718106
There will be gay nigger tranny midgets on Mars and there's absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that.

>>12718112
not, gotcha

>>12718067
Why is the flame diverter at Baikonur so fucking huge, anyways? It's the most visually distinct pad in the world, other than maybe 39A.

>>12718121
Nobody tell him about the rocks.

>>12718113
>Elon's real purpose for terraforming Mars is to create a wildlife refuge for sea turtles

>>12718120
As long as the insects don't win

>>12718133
>the turtles are controlling Musk telepathically
>the turtles will use Mars as a staging point to retake Earth

>>12718133
We should exterminate sea turtles unless they are a good food source

>>12717734
>falcon9
>little breeze
>ABORT!!!!!!!!

>soyuz
>-20 blizzard
>cosmonauts are frozen to their seats
>fuel is more solid then fluid at this point
>icing is making the rocket heavier by the minute
>вce в зeлeнoм, зaпycк

>>12718121
Doubtful.

>>12718120
>chink-usa moon race this decade
People have been memeing for this to happen since China sent up their first person. Until they successfully launch a super-heavy lift vehicle and announce concrete plans I'm going to remain incredible skeptical of China achieving anything this decade beyond their Mir clone

>>12718150
Soyuz doesn't have to land its boosters. Also why launch in weather when you can just wait 2 days and gave a successful mission

>>12718152
This.

They're probably waiting until SpaceX solves all of the big problems, so they can steal the technology and implement it for cheap.

We need to develop a tank for usage on Mars; weight optimized so Starship can carry two of them and with electric engines

>>12717491
This absolute poison needs to be eradicated and fast

>Galapagos tortoises nearly went extinct due to them being an ideal food for long sea voyages in the colonies
>Musk starts hoarding Turtles near the Starship launch site
So this is the power of Sea Shanties?

>>12717476
I’ve used a plastic tote full of oatmeal to raise beetles before

>>12717491
Cool story bro, I'll be laughing in 10 years when they cease to exist

>>12718156
"China can just steal anything as soon as it's mature" is the biggest meme that exists. Most of the "stolen" tech attributed to them is superficial, because the actual important technical bits require just as much R&D as anyone else. It's easier to do something when someone else has already made an example, but that's just universal, not special to China. And they still struggle with jets and engines.

is nasa going to stream perseverance landing? like the control room and stuff giving us updates + picture once it's on the ground and powered up?

>>12718175
They can do it easily with technologies that don't require tradecraft, industrial engineering, and an experienced workforce.

The hard part is when it isn't just blueprints, but an entire system.

>>12718183
Yes, save the link
https://youtu.be/gm0b_ijaYMQ

Daily reminder that “diversity” is demonstrably unhealthy for society and is only pushed in white countries. China doesn’t give a shit about that nonsense and neither do Africans. Spade colonies and spaceship crews should be highly homogenous to discourage friction.

>>12718175
They did it with a lot of tech, yrs the j20 isn't close to the f22 or f35 but if you look at some less protected designs they are direct copies, same with tradecraft and company ips

>>12718192
You're right. I will dedicate my homo colony to you, anon.

>>12718196
ignore it

>>12718177
>>12718192
Great addition to your original post, will look forward to your reminder tomorrow

>>12718204
It’ll be something different, like about faggots

>>12718174
Are you ESL or something? Does everyone here have aspergers and is incapable of reading sarcasm? Do you none of you get DEI emails from your school or job similar to my parody? Do I have to hold up a sign with "I HATE NIGGERS"?

I'm excited about the perseverance rover but watching the press conference about it is so fucking painful

>>12718224
What's painful about it?

>>12718194
>check
>they still haven't completed the intended engines on j20
lol. lmao. This is exactly the line. Yeah they can copy the superficial elements and if the tech is conservative as on, say, cargo plane with turbofans #49, it's not a problem. There's no shortcut in this respect though. They have to put in the time.

>>12718226
They skirt all real questions, they talk about this mission being realized 10 years from now. They get handed softball questions and they miss the mark completely. They say nothing of substance and they talk like their audience is in 5th grade

>>12718247
>"Okay we have a question from a viewer here: Why is Mars red? Well ah, who wants to take that one?"

>>12718241
Like i said they can get the top secure programs but they've copied our aircraft like the c-130 entirely

fugg urf :DD

>>12718255
Its more like
>is this going to help us get men on mars
>great question, this mission is super exciting because we are going to be trying to find signs of life on mars and our samples retrieved in 10 years will need people like YOU to investigate them hehehe. But yes umm we are testing our moxie experiment so that one day we may be able to like live on mars. O.o

>>12718297
Don't forget the "muh first eoman on the moon" " muh inclusive missions" "muh black science people doing busy work on the taxpayers dime"

>>12718261
c130 is literally cargo plane with turbofans #whatever. It's a good plane, but not a technical marvel by any stretch of the imagination.

>>12718266
Fugg boing XDDD

>>12718309
Real obscure fuckin Spurdo

>>12718297
MOXIE generators are used in Surviving Mars

>>12718309
this is now a spurdo thread...well mebbe not

>>12718301
>but not a technical marvel
It doesn't swem like it now but its a major workhorse on a levelthat only western countries and Russia have been able to create. But its bit about individual equipment, its about the combined arms network and the command and control structure of our military that makes it hyper successful. Its also about our business supply chain networks, corporate structure and bussiness culture. They have stolen enough if that they are catching up to a competitive position. They can never surpass us technologically until they stop relying on theft and start innovating but that doesn't matter because being competitive is enough to sink their competition