/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12702586
More like the 'Star Ship Chode Enterprise' LOL.

you get BTFO in another thread so you bail to another, great strategy retard

>>12702586
Dude you are STEAMED from that thread earlier where everyone SMOKED you for these claims of structural instability and shoddy construction on Elon's rockets. They don't even blow up that often, much less be coming apart at the SEAMS.

>>12702586
It looks like a micropenis. How is anybody meant to take this seriously?
wtf elon

>>12702586
it just needs to impress idiot investors.

>>12702762
lel I saw this discussion. dude literally looked at a cold as hell cryo tank, saw the condensed water vapor coming off it, and thought rockets were filled with high pressure steam that was leaking out.
only on 4chan!

>>12702586
the only way to conquer space is to rape it, and the only way to rape it is with giant dildos. and they said quota hires were a bad thing. smdh.

All of you people are going to get killed.

>>12702878
He's gone full schizo

>>12702800
dumb motherfucker thought it was smoke

>>12702882
You don't believe me now but later you will believe me when I say that your whole family gets exterminated for that, and not in a nice way like Hitler was exterminating people in Germany.

>>12702586
>Shameful.
>are these non /sfg/ threads even worth the effort with continual samefag troll?
ALL suck on SpaceX tin can cock or get super-trolled by ding a ling zealot.....
free-speech is too expensive.

>>12702586
sheetmetal will never be reliable enough for public space travel.
*its all a larp

>>12703926
define reliable idiot, its stainless steel you shit hole, it gets more resistant when it heats or cools down, has a way better weight to structural integrity to weight factor than carbon composites, is cheaper, its easier to work with, it lasts longer, it can take a heat shield less re entry as the space shuttle demonstrated, when a tile got knocked off, and behind that tile, on just that spot was not aircraft aluminum like on the rest of the shuttle, but a carrier plate made of steel which took up all the heat without melting.

>>12704184
space shittle STS-27 got saved by that steel plate, it would have disintegrated like columbia if that thin piece of antenna plate wouldnt have been there to take the brunt of the heat. it experienced just some surface oxidation, some scotch bright and a wipe with an angle grinder takes care of this

>>12704195
if the tile next to it would have gotten knocked off it would have exposed aluminium which would have just combusted from the heat. the space shittle was a death trap

>>12702586
>Commercial will never get to orbit
>Commercial will never get to orbit reliably
>Commercial will never land rockets.
>Commercial will never fly human rated rockets.
>Commercial will never develop the next generation of rockets (You are here)
>Commercial will never get the first boots on Mars
>Commercial will never build a self-sustaining civilization on Mars

Imagine being so wrong for so long, how do you even write posts.

>>12704184
talking about the engine, dumb dumb.

op is the same fucking retard from this thread again >>12693533

a thundercuck cock sucker

>>12704211


>>12703926
>sheetmetal will never be reliable enough for public space travel


the engines are not made of sheet metal you mongoloid

>>12704215
>the engines are not made of sheet metal you mongoloid
fuel-tanks retard.
https://youtu.be/cDYt-phUAxY?t=417

>>12704215
>the engines are not made of sheet metal you mongoloid
fuel-tanks retard.
https://youtu.be/cDYt-phUAxY?t=417
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHw

>>12703926
>sheetmetal will never be reliable enough for public space travel.
>>12704211
>talking about the engine, dumb dumb.
>>12704226
>fuel-tanks retard.

the tanks are perfectly fine, they exceed the required operational pressure hardness by several safety margins, the stainless steel used to form the hull and the tank wall even hardens at cryogenic temperatures and takes even higher pressures, something carbon does not do, it gets brittle and needs even more layers of carbon to compensate for that. they are not structural parts, they heed an outer hull to take the weight, which makes them in the end heavier than a tank made of steel, which is also acting as a structural element at the same time. a carbon tank costs a shitload more to manufacture as well, good goys pay for this state financed plunder which has been fixed by rational space x engineering.


whats next? "the rivets dum dum, i meant the rivets"

inb4 , it is spot welded you ass blasted retard. you cant shift your argument from sheet metal to engines and then fuel tanks, your inconsistent babbling has no base for an argument.

>>12704254
>spot welded

spot welded studs to hold the heatshield tiles, they are not part of holding the sheet metal together.

>>12704226
he must be the guy who made the power point briefings for the former u.s. president. bullshit condensed into a MS paint "whatever" comparison, someone should tell this guy that welded seams can take more forces than the sheet metal material by itself

>>12704195
>The vessel's heat shielding was substantially damaged during lift-off, impacting the right wing, and crew members thought that they would die during reentry.
Despite that, they performed their duties and brought the Shuttle home even though they thought they were going to die during re-entry. This makes Linda Ham's decision to keep the Columbia astronauts in the dark even more damning. She's a first grade cunt.

>>12704254
>something carbon
no one mentioned carbon fuel-tanks
>"the rivets dum dum, i meant the rivets"
no one uses rivets on the fuel-tanks
>spot welded you ass blasted retard.
no one uses welding on the fuel tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHw
why you making shit up?

>>12704270
musk fuel tanks will never be certified for public transport
the best industry practice is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHw
SpaceX is a larp.

>>12704270
>welded seams can take more forces than the sheet metal material by itself
source?

>>12704288
>source?
any welder you ask, and ive programmed ABB welding robots for 10 years. the weld rod material has a higher tensile strength and quality than the parent material itself. a weld never rips at the seam, before this happens you tear the parent material apart.

but here is a link to joiningtech , you do not have to take my word. https://joiningtech.com/welding_myths_3/

>>12704279
STOP POSTING VIDEOS REEEEEEEEEE
Seriously how retarded are you? I disregart every opionion based on a video even if this video links to papers.

>>12704300
>I'm too stupid to research industry practices, remove all antimusk dick suck from my offended bipolar condition

>>12702636
this
stop spamming these threads OP
kys

>>12704306
I am working with the research industry as a chemical engeneer and 99% of the things we exchange are papers only. Mostly not even a word in the emails just a paper.

>>12704299
>Seamless Tubing
https://eagletube.com/about-us/news/welded-vs-seamless-tubing/

>By definition seamless tubes are completely homogenous tubes, the properties of which give seamless tubing more strength, superior corrosion resistance, and the ability to withstand higher pressure than welded tubes. This makes them more suitable in critical applications in harsh environments, but it comes with a price.

Benefits

Stronger
Superior corrosion resistance
Higher pressure resistance

Applications

Oil and gas control lines
Chemical injection lines
Below sea safety valves
Chemical processing plant steam and heat trace bundles
Fluid and gas transfer


>Costs of seamless and welded tubing are also related to such properties as strength and durability. Welded tubing’s easier manufacturing process can produce larger diameter tubing with thinner wall sizes for less. Such properties are more difficult to produce in seamless tubing. On the other hand, heavy walls can be achieved more easily with seamless tubing. Seamless tubing is often preferred for heavy wall tubing applications that require or can withstand high pressure or perform in extreme environments.

>>12704310
>Chemical-engineers have god complexes therefore justify their personal ignorance.

>>12704279
they are not musk fuel tanks, they are common bulkhead fuel tanks, and they have been around forever. saturn v had common bulkhead fuel tanks on stage 2 and 3 to save weight. space x engineers did not pull that out of their asses. and musk does not do the engineering at space x. go hate on a large group of engineers with more degrees in material sciences and physics than you could have in 3 life times, and call their work bullshit.

>>12704318
musk uses sheetmetal fuel-tanks.
Saturn v did not use sheetmetal fuel-tanks, Saturn v used the same fuel-tanks as this below video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHw
as was pointed out by this video...
https://youtu.be/cDYt-phUAxY?t=417

why you keep lying?

>>12704316
You are just a shill liek thundercuck, I remember as he shilled against thorium for months.

>>12704326
You are just a shill liek suck on musk thundercuck, I remember as he shilled against thorium for months.

>>12704313
yeah, now try to do this to a stainless steel tube with a 9 meter diameter. you cant. there is no industrial press in the world able to push a stainless steel billet that large through an extruder die of this size without destroying that die on the first run. this production method is more suitable for iron , mild steel and aluminum pipes. seamless pipe extrusion works for smaller diameter pipes like small pipelines at best

>>12704323
>musk uses sheetmetal fuel-tanks
so what, sheet metal is just fine. more tensile strength, less weight, better structural integrity with less reinforcements needed.

>>12704336
the manufacturing process here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHwvis considered one seamless piece, as is pointed out here https://youtu.be/cDYt-phUAxY?t=417 .
sorry this engineering is beyond the armatures like musk.

>>12704323
>lying

ignores the fact that said sheet metal tanks exceeded the required pressure safety margins by far. 6 bar are required for orbital flight, which already contains a safety margin. pressure tests exceeded 8.5 bars. these tanks exceeded even nasas own requirements.

>>12704340
>so what
as long as industry corruption doesn't alter certification standards, this type of pied piper charlatans will never be a problem.

>>12704348
let me know when your brags get public transport certification

>>12704344
musk engineers nothing you clown.

musk just wants a faster, cheaper and more reliable manufacturing method, and he achieves this by using materials not even considered by aero space, because they are narrow minded corrupt lobbyists, just trying to keep old school rocket manufacturing mills and supply chains running. space x can do that with sheet metal welded together in some shacks in the desert. just stay mad and posts 50 more threads with the same topic you sperg lord

>>12704355
reliability performance must be proven for public transport certification; snide remarks are irrelevant.

>>12704352
why are you so focused on public transportation? you wont be able to pay for a ticket anyways. by the time this would be even a topic starship will have been in service for at least a decade for commercial payload flights and crewed missions. this scenario they showed off in animations in the early days is so far in the future you might not even qualify for one anymore. it might even be off the table, because of the time frame. it happens when it happens, sooner or later and foremost without you and me. they will get a certification thrown after them just because that thing will be as, or even more reliable than falcon turned out.

>>12704388

>>12704388
>they will get a certification thrown after them just because that thing will be as, or even more reliable than falcon turned out.
>even more reliable than falcon turned out.
based on how many consecutive successful launches?
how does that winning streak stack up against the current industry competition?
no one cares about pipe piper charlatan pipe dreams.
prove it and qualify for certification like everyone else.
you pissing in the wind is embarrassing.

>>12704355

OP I fucking hate Musk but even I have to admit you're barking up the wrong tree on this one

crybaby

>>12702586
Chink or Kike demoriliser. The cattle are slipping the gates whether you like it or not.

>>12702586
the schizo retard is back! woooot!
kys retarded

>>12704201
that is was, they claimed it was 1 in 97 chance of loss of craft failures, it was actually 1 in 9. It's amazing the Shittle didn't have more accidents

>>12702586
Thunderf00t you're losing it senpai. Just you wait, those TSLA shorts will work out someday.

>African business man Defrauds the US government

Why should we care

The space shuttle was something, what a shame that they decided to throw it away in favor of some flying grain silo from a con man. Both Musk and Bezos are total frauds.

>>12702586
it's a bullet, bullets fly well do they not?

>>12702586
Starchode

>>12702586
>still in development phases not production
>"Oh well see how shitty it is they should just give up"
You're quite the faggot aren't you OP?
Now be sure to be on time for your McDonalds job or Mister Noseberg will yell at you again.

>>12710498
It's ugly as sin and you know it

>>12710572
Steve, you should be dead!

>>12702586
>wtf that doesn't look like what I made in KSP
seethe

But, because of a last-minute issue with the pressure in the SN8's fuel tank, the landing did not go as smoothly as intended.
Apple-green flames — a result of chemicals burning off into the engine flame — were quickly engulfed by a giant plume of fire and smoke as the SN8 slammed into the ground.
>sheetmetal<

>>12710777
What's crazy is that SpaceX ran out of helium before with the falcon 9.

>>12710788
yes, I heard.
did they release the telemetry?
or is that what they claim?

>>12702586 >>12710777
According to SpaceX, "Low pressure in the fuel header tank during the landing burn led to high touchdown velocity resulting in a hard (and exciting!) landing."

In simpler terms, SN8’s fuel header tank experienced low pressure as the rocket descended, which caused the rocket to land too quickly and therefore too hard, which caused the explosion.

Why was SN8 venting pressure while this was happening?
Why the fuck would the release valve be located practically inside the cockpit?
weird ass designs, does anyone have blueprints showing the plumbing?

>>12702586 >>12710777
According to SpaceX, "Low pressure in the fuel header tank during the landing burn led to high touchdown velocity resulting in a hard (and exciting!) landing."

In simpler terms, SN8’s fuel header tank experienced low pressure as the rocket descended, which caused the rocket to land too quickly and therefore too hard, which caused the explosion.

Why was SN8 venting pressure while this was happening?
Why the fuck would the release valve be located practically inside the cockpit?
weird ass designs, does anyone have blueprints showing the plumbing?

>>12702586

Oh no! Is the smoke gonna leak out of the seams again??

Dumbass

>>12704279
>musk fuel tanks

Seems like you have separation anxiety

>>12711897
>>12711905
tin-foil hat society flying in their tin-foil space-ship.

>>12711913
I'd piss myself laughing if they're computer simulating these flight maneuvers didn't account for the more brittle cold-spots along the seams where the fuel level was..

I bet they simulated the entire fuel tank as 2 temperature homogeneous cavities and the upforce of air as it descended caused the lighter top half to flex while placing the bending stress at the brittle seams!!

a better diagram would be nice, I'm curious why is the vent at the cockpit and why pressure is released considering the depleting fuel drops the pressure in the tank automatically;

>We need reusable rockets that can land
>Why?
>What if we go to Mars?
>Why the fuck would anyone go to Mars?!
>It's the future of humans
>Being space bound is the future of humans. Relying on celestial bodies is stupid
>You're just being negative and jealous of Elon. We need rockets we can reuse duh. First of all it's cheaper and betterer than the old rockets. When I compare these new rockets to ones made 100 years ago they're clearly superior in every way and you're fucking stupid and we're going to fly to Mars and live in the Mars caves eating moss and it'll be cool. We'll get to see brown dust and brown skies and robots covered in the brown dust.

>>12711946
Mechanical vibrations from the engines roaring, especially a spit-spit-backfire type of starting; certainly wouldn't help any brittle week spots also under stress from bending.

These idiots in this massive bullseye cruising thru the meteor belt are gonna get slammed head on with 30,000mph tennis ball size rock!!!!

>>12702586
isn't that the gherkin

>>12711983
A long sheetmetal fuselage on an aircraft dissipating external forces with flexibility is one thing, but trying that shit with a super-chilled super-rigid super-brittle fuselage that has super-brittle weak-point seams and engine start-up vibrations.... is fuckn nuts!!

It would be awesome if their website had these FEM emulations in video format for us to watch. I'm sure they can easily remove any screen details considered industry secret.
even the official blueprints they release are utterly pointless, they look like a children's color in book.

>>12711998
Hey i like the looks of that

>>12711960
>degenerate weeb
Opinion discarded

>>12712031
those look more like walnut whips

>>12712027
personally, this whole old-school chemical rocket poofter propulsion has screeched back to dead fucking boring;

Time spent away from your own theoretical work really reminds you how fuckn pointless these ape men parades are.

these 2 thundercuck threads expire and I'm out.

>>12711946 >>12711983 >>12712027 >>12712063
This was a sweet larp, but agreed; the irrelevance is already beyond give a shit.
catch ya on the flip side.
>p<

>>12712046
do americans really

>>12712076
until then.
>ng<

>>12712078
the walnut whip is a british invention of which we are justifiably proud

>>12702586
>american *engineering*

Stop. This thread should have ended here
>>12702636. Maybe here >>12702762. There's no fucking reason for this to have 82 replies. Sage goes in all fields.

>>12710400

>>12702586
> a fucking grain silo

>>12711960
>he fell for the orbital cattle trick

>>12702586
its a blimp turned on its side.

My 44 inch waist makes a lot more go inside while I'm seated compared to some 32 inch waist wimp.

>>12704323
Great video, thanks for sharing

>>12714389
wow thanks for all those globohomo establishment actors (people who pretend for a living) telling me a word, that'll be sure to convince people

>>12704323
that last video is super out of date though

>>12714492
>doesn't know the non-sheetmtal rockets can also be scaled up

that 32 inch wimp would smack a hole in your tin can waist.
You sound like a Ford Fairlane driver stupid enough to follow a smaller 4WD into terrains without a sealed bitumen road.

good luck on ya 7 month journey & cross ya fingers thru asteroid belt.
is musk gonna put the impact absorbent materials on the outside?
the feul tank container walls is the ships hull.

>>12714822
>that last video is super out of date though
sheetmetal is still sheetmetal
>>12714818
>globohomo establishment actors

>>12702586

>>12712027
>super-chilled super-rigid super-brittle fuselage that has super-brittle weak-point seams
Still spouting his bullshit.

If you look at the properties of a high-quality 304L stainless steel, at cryogenic temperatures the strength is boosted by 50 percent.
And the welds are always made from even higher grade steel.

>>12712099
Looks disgusting

>>12715787
>If you look at the properties of a high-quality 304L stainless steel, at cryogenic temperatures the strength is boosted by 50 percent.
so when the long fuselage does its acrobatics and the fuselage-length bends and the stress is dissipated by its flexibility, does it not experience metal fatigue?
yes it does.
so instead of the weakpoint being at the center of these colder rings where the fuel level is... its at the seam's boundaries instead..
*the seam is stronger than the rest of it.

if you can physically see a colder (therefore more tensile seam) then why would you think the entire tank was a homogeneous temperature with the same tensile strength?

the bending fuselage will cause metal fatigue at the seam boundaries.
those welding joints are retarded.
should of gone with seamless welding, instead... oops silly me, that doesn't work on tin cans.