/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12708501
I don't know which math area would be the most appropriate for it but I think the first major milestone that a today's transhumanist should strive for is that of making the mind substrate independent such that one has a greater choice over what happens to one's consciousness and make it less vulnerable to deterioration or cessation. I think whatever math is necessary for the achievement of whole brain emulation would be a good start.

Read https://www.nickbostrom.com/ethics/values.html

Read LessWrong, read Diaspora by Greg Egan, look into Effective Altruism, study whatever will lead to achieving anti-aging and AGI.

>>12708557
>Bostrom and Sandberg, Whole Brain emulation, a roadmap (2008)

>A Taxonomy and Metaphysics of Mind-Uploading, Keith Wiley (2014)

>>12708560
>>12708557
Thank you.

>>12708556
I don't know what areas of math would be appropriate for this

>>12708501
Just some thoughts:
>Freedom is the most important of all values
This can be misunderstood to mean "everything must bend to the totalitarian goal of freedom", which would include accepting suffering. I think I know what you mean, but I'd formulate it in a different way. "Freedom is the understanding of necessity" is something I would incorporate. Like freedom ends, where other humans' interests begin.
>Liberty is restrained by numerous things, but mostly by restrictions of the human body
Also the mind. Thus formulation can be misunderstood as meaning that making people suffer through, e.g., copying their consciousness and torturing it is not restraining liberty.
>Randomness doesn't exist
This is provably wrong, see quantum mechanics.
>Only way to become free within the restraints of the universe
See first comment. Freedom is a spectrum.
>it will be approximately free
It is still bound by the physical system it resides on, and a slave to even more restrictions from cables, noise in the system, external blockages etc. It's more free in different aspects, but in others more restricted.
>what area of mathematics should I specialize in if I wish to help to achieve this future?
I don't think this is a (pure) math topic. I guess the closest you can come currently to research is neuroscience, the stuff that NeuraLink and competitors do, to understand brains, consciousness, and other things. I think a rigorous philosophical treatment is also sensible at this point, but you don't seem like the type that is satisfied with such an endeavor. The best route imho is physics -> engineering -> neurobiology. And get a good grasp of general physics. It goes a long way.

>>12708560
>Sandberg
fuck off

>>12708583
Also, the area that I think is the most fertile at this point is brain connectomics. The human brain project is this century's genome project.

>>12708589
explain?

>>12708595
newfag

>>12708596
I know that he has -berg in his name but I thought you'd look him up before saying that

>>12708501
Neuromancer

>>12708583
> everything must bend to the totalitarian goal of freedom
Exactly.
> Also the mind.
You fail to understand the core principle behind this belief system. Everything you do is influenced by an infinite variety of factors. Genetics has an impact, environment has an impact, everything. Pondering about how have those factors came to be is a waste of time. Only appropriate thing to do is to maximize freedom. All other actions simply shift the behavior of other people into something else. Any choice is an illusion. Your mind is restrained by your body, your body is restrained by nutrition, and so on...
If
>Randomness doesn't exist
and what we see in quantum mechanics simply shows that we don't have the tools to see the 'pattern'.
>It's more free in different aspects, but in others more restricted.
It shifts the limitations in such a way as to minimize their amount, I believe.
>a rigorous philosophical treatment
You are right, I believe that all of philosophy is bullshit. This may seem cringe to you but I honestly only believe in mathematics, which is why I chose to pursue it.

>physics -> engineering -> neurobiology
How would I even pursue such a path? Next year I'll choose a major in physics (first year), but what then? I'm not sure how I would even find people that share my belief system.

>>12708501
The Martyrdom of Man - William Winwood Reade
Superintelligence - Nick Bostrom, I can recommend his essays in general : https://www.nickbostrom.com/ethics/genetic.html
The Age of Spiritual Machines - Ray Kurzweil
Eric K. Drexler, Engines of Creation: The Coming Era of Nanotechnology
Hans Moravec, Robot: Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind.
Superhuman - Anders Sandberg #
J. B. S. Haldane - Daedalus: Science and the Future
J. D. Bernal - The World, the Flesh and the Devil i

>>12708609
There is no need to look a “berg” up

>>12708501
You should specialize in converting from Judaism and praying to Jesus Christ for forgiveness for the life of sin you have been living.

>>12708711
Only the ignorant put a limit on knowledge. Technology is of man and man is holy. All that we create brings us closer to Point Omega. Knowledge stretches us beyond the Demiurge’s prison of air and stone.
The universe is fated to ascend towards a final point of divine unification.
God put us on Earth in His own all-powerful image. This means that not only should we transform Earth as we see fit, but that we should do our best to emulate God as well. This was shown to us by the existence of Jesus who was both Man and God. He manipulated his environment to serve humanity (water into wine, loaves and fishes, healing the sick). Eventually, he left humanity behind and ascended beyond physical existence. We should do our best to live up to his example. God gave us intelligent minds for a reason, and that was so we could create technology which we shall use to become as Him. He waits for us to join Him in an existence beyond this one. To do this, we will need to shed our basic forms while maintaining our elemental soul. That is, we must maintain our intelligence and our love for God and each other. This is the only way we can prove our faith.
The real transhumanism is taking on the full image of the resurrected Jesus Christ. One of the biggest lies that people believe is that heaven is for when you die. It couldn’t be further from the truth. The kingdom of heaven is ‘at hand’ - meaning it is a realm that you can access while living. When you access that realm, you can manifest it here in the earth realm. That is what Jesus did his whole life. He lived out of the kingdom and only did what he saw the father do. If Jesus is the perfect example for mankind and he transcended his physical body, then so should you and I. We should be able to do everything that Jesus did. Everything. And greater. True transhumanism is transcending the limitations of sin nature by taking on the full image of Jesus Christ, becoming a god-like one.

>>12708711
back to /pol/, I'm obviously an atheist

>>12708736
In my religion our body is the Temple of God. Trying to leave it is a sin. ((Taranshumanism)) is fine for you jews I guess because it doesn’t contradict anything in the talmud.

>>12708743
Hasn’t atheism been deboonked by science?

>>12708763
i study math, not science

>>12708595
It`s a /pol/lack. Ander Sandberg has got lots of good essays on the topic, and even some good fictional look at future possibilities. I can recommend his Transhuman Space RPG setting as well as Orion`s Arm. Yeah, he is a big nerd.

>>12708501
Stephen Hsu, George Church and other medical pioneers might not officially be a transhumanist but you can hear it out.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.3421.pdf
>Take the case of John von Neumann, widely regarded as one of the greatest intellects in the 20th century, and a famous polymath. He made fundamental contributions in mathematics, physics, nuclear weapons research, computer architecture, game theory and automata theory. In addition to his abstract reasoning ability, von Neumann had formidable powers of mental calculation and a photographic memory. In my opinion, genotypes exist that correspond to phenotypes as far beyond von Neumann as he was beyond a normal human. The quantitative argument for why there are many SD’s to be had from tuning genotypes is straightforward. Suppose variation in cognitive ability is 1. highly polygenic (i.e., controlled by N loci, where N is large, such as 10k), and 2. approximately linear (note the additive heritability of g is larger than the non-additive part).
>Then the population SD for the trait corresponds to an excess of roughly N^(1/2)vpositivevalleles (for simplicity we suppress dependence on minor allele frequency). A genius like von Neumann might be +6 SD, so would have roughly 6N^(1/2) more positive alleles than the average person (e.g.,∼600 extra positive alleles if N = 10k). But there are roughly +N^(1/2) SDs in phenotype (∼100 SDs in the case N ∼ 10k) to be had by an individual who has essentially all of the N positive alleles! As long as N^(1/2) >> 6, there is ample extant variation for selection to act on to produce a type superior to any that has existed before.

>>12708856
The corresponding ethical issues of genetic engineering are complex and deserve serious attention in what may be a relatively short interval before these capabilities become a reality. Each society will decide for itself where to draw the line on human genetic engineering, but we can expect a diversity of perspectives. Almost certainly, some countries will allow genetic engineering, thereby opening the door for global elites who can afford to travel for access to reproductive technology. As with most technologies, the rich and powerful will be the first beneficiaries. Eventually, though, I believe many countries will not only legalize human genetic engineering, but even make it a (voluntary) part of their national healthcare systems. The alternative would be inequality of a kind never before experienced in human history.
http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/protect.html

>>12708501
These are the threads i live for

bumping

>>12708501
Nature is a blind chaos and the purpose of consciousness is to being order to it. To search its possibilities, to explore the inner and outer spaces, to learn the infinite is its ultimate well-chosen purpose as no purpose exist beyond itself. Progress is to liberate the mind from the void of purpose in the cosmos, to shape all to its design and make it's own destiny.

>>12708501
>transhumanism
>>>/x/

>>12708501
https://www.hedweb.com/

>>12708501

>>12709654
The first genetically augmented humans were already born though. Add Neurallink and medical nanomachines and you can see a realistic basis for a transhuman future. None of its promises would violate physical law.

>>12709839
organic life has no future though.

>>12709862
In the long term? No, but mostly organic humans will still dominate civilosphere for centuries.

>>12708635
>Only appropriate thing to do is to maximize freedom.
That leads to ultimate death or complete isolation. The system isn't sustainable.
>and what we see in quantum mechanics simply shows that we don't have the tools to see the 'pattern'.
No, Bell's inequality shows that it's exactly not that, but true randomness. Experimentally verified.

>how I would even find people that share my belief system.
You won't. Welcome to the real world, where everyone's views differ.

>>12710066
Alright, I'll bite.
Searches regarding Bell's inequality as to its validity don't seem to lead to anything productive. We could argue, but this really isn't a productive way to learn. Let's get to the source then. Let's suppose the determinism under which my belief system is founded is wrong, and physics has already been recommended to me - I'm curious.
Would you recommend some path for studying physics to eventually arrive to gather relevant knowledge to my area of interest? Obviously just following /sci/'s wiki recommendations will waste a lot of my time.

>>12710066
>Bell's inequality
You can also add Planck Uncertainty as well, because on the smallest scale nothing becomes scalable.

>>12710189
>Planck scale
>smallest scale
Planck units are convenient units of measurement for extremely small or extremely high-energy phenomena. There's nothing fundamental to them.

>>12710185
>as to its validity
It is experimentally verified. As in, it's correct.
>Would you recommend some path for studying physics to eventually arrive to gather relevant knowledge to my area of interest?
Hm, it's difficult to tell, since I did a master in physics. I think the shortest route would be to get a solid math foundation in linear algebra, analysis, calculus, differential geometry and differential equations, then read "the road to reality" by Penrose. He brushes over a lot of topics in physics and mathematics in a visual way, and if you can connect it to your mathematical knowledge, I think this will give you enough of a background to get a good grasp of modern physics.
I wouldn't recommend reading it first and then going deeper, since without a proper foundation a lot of the things can be misunderstood.

>>12708501
Cope for faggots who can't accept the limitations of their bodies' capabilities. So they live their lives in perpetual delusions of what might be. Seems like a terrible way to suffer desu considering the alternative.

>>12711644
Well I'm absolutely going to hell when I die, so I'd like to extend my time here for as long as is possible, whatever the cost. An extra 500 years would make possible to live long enough to get to the point where I can live effectively forever, postponing justice for as long as possible.

>>12711823
Wouldn't it be easier to stop believing in hell? See what I mean by unnecessarily suffering?

>>12711852
Easier said then done, and even if I choose not to believe in God, I still want as long as possible on earth because I am entirely egotistical with a God complex and unable to imagine a world that isn't placed here solely for my usage. That and I already know my children will squander what I've built unless I can induce mild sociopathy in my sons so they can match my tempo.

>>12708501
What nationality?

>>12712447
I'm Polish, but I don't see how's that relevant