/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12707125
We have one pretty much every week here. It should probably be a general already.

>>12707135
/riq/: race iq general

>the chad high IQ white man
“all races and sexes deserve equal opportunity”
> inner monologue “still got this”

>the chud low IQ white troglodyte
“I AM SUPERIOR!!! ONLY READON I FLUNKED OUT OF SCHOOL IS BECAUSE THE BLACKS OUTSMARTED ME REEEE!!!
>inner monologue: “i must be a woman...”

>>12707143
>>the chad high IQ white man
>“all races and sexes deserve equal opportunity”

That Dunning-Kruger though...

>>12707125
No

>>12707142
kek

>>12707143
There should be equal opportunity, but that should NOT equate to equal results.

>>12707143
>“all races and sexes deserve equal opportunity”
And if they fail, it means the opportunities weren't equal enough

>>12707125
No, because environmental-IQ origin advocates know they're wrong. The shutdown tactic is a means of drowning/denying the conversation altogether.

>>12707152
Equal opportunity means those who were going to do better from the start get worse treatment and less resources dedicated to them. When a police department picks dogs to train for their K9 unit, they don't give teacup poodles the same opportunity as German Shepherds

>>12707160
You're clearly confused.
If they're allowing teacup poodles to participate in whatever the training practices are, that equates to equal opportunity.
If by some miracle one of these little shitheels is able to take down a grown man and has an exceptional nose for drugs, than by all means, train it to be in the K9 unit.

Equal Opportunity is just that, the OPPORTUNITY, the CHANCE, to prove yourself worthy or shoot your shot.
If you can't stand up to the competition, well that's just tough shit kiddo

>>12707160
>NOOOOO THE ONLY REASON THE BLACKS OUTSMARTED ME IS BECAUSE THEY GAVE POOR WHITE ME LESS RESOURCES!!!!!

>>12707176
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

>>12707174
Dumping resources into a demographic that is clearly not going to make the cut means fewer resources for those who were far more likely to succeed.

Shit it's a large part of why China basically owns us at this point. They don't cottle. They know by the time they're 13 whether they're going to work in some office or have an inordinately high chance of dying one day while moving scaffolding

>>12707176
Shill go

>>12707186
>NOOO IM NOT RIDICULOUS, THE ELITES OF THIS COUNTRY FAVOR THE BLACK MAN AND KEEP THE WHITE MAN DOWN, WE NEED TO TAX THE BLACKS AND WOMEN TO MAKE IT FAIR FOR WHITE MEN REEEE

>>12707193
How can you tax them on money they don't have? They argument is that you shouldn't tax whites as much, since it's whites who disproportionately pay high taxes to prop up blacks via welfare.

>>12707197
>BU-BUT THEY DONT GIVE RESOURCES TO WHITE MEN!!!

>>12707197
We set up banks accounts for every black person and add debt to it whenever we see they're starting to do well. Also we begin charging them rent for living in a white country like the US.

>>12707125

Of course we can't.

First off 99% of the discussions participants do not have the grasp of statistics required to come to a conclusion that's based in a firm understanding of the evidence over their prior convictions. In addition, leftists 100% of the time argue in bad faith and present little affirmative evidence for the anti-hereditary case while derailing the conversation with gish galloping.

Finally, the research that has been done that is relevant leaves a lot to be desired, the amount of publications and researchers in the field is small and rife with conflict of interest. All due to the subject being politically radioactive, and any researcher flying too close to the sun running the risk of losing funding, or their career.

All race/IQ discussions are fated to go nowhere until the kind of "can't be ignored" genetic evidence comes to light.

it’s settled. white people are all super high IQ so we need to start sending the impoverished people in pic related to harvard full ride, other applicants be damned

>>12707212
>the kind of "can't be ignored" genetic evidence comes to light.
There's no such thing. You'd think biological differences between men and women would fall there, but there's still people arguing for (and winning) trans people in sports, women in combat military roles, etc.

>>12707209
>We set up banks accounts for every black person and add debt to it whenever we see they're starting to do well.
so basically student loans
t. black man with a degree

>>12707125
The thing with IQ, is that it's a test done under the assumption that everyone should be able to understand it, while the reality is that variable factors such as quality of education and environment will heavily affect the results of the test. Now add to that the gigantic variable that is race, and you get why the idea of trying to argue that one race's IQ being statistically higher than another means one race is smarter than the other.
It's silly. There's no reliable way to test the cognitive capabilities of a person, because we simply don't understand yet how intelligence itself originates. We know it has to do with neural connections, but how do those connections interact and what processes result of said conection?

>>12707218
Just what do you think IQ-realists are advocating?

If anything, people who believe blacks have the same IQ as whites should be starting affirmative action programs for white trash. They are, after all, the same IQ as other white groups on average, and we simply discriminate against people who fuck their cousin and live in trailer parks.

>>12707223
Don't forget about disabled astronauts.

>>12707227
>There's no reliable way to test the cognitive capabilities of a person, because we simply don't understand yet how intelligence itself originates.
That's a complete non-sequitur.

>>12707226
Yeah, but you wouldn't get a degree for having the account, just a few aggressive warning messages and an assassin if you don't pay up for a while.

>>12707237
How so?

>>12707235
reminder that plenty of poor whites get tons of government assistance. farm subsidies are gigantic and overwhelmingly go to pay poor whites. plus, i think most medicaid recipients are white. also welfare?

anyhow in terms of affirmative action for poor white men—they get plenty of excuses. single mom, parent alcoholic, parent methhead, parent got black lung from the mines, parent died in the mines, etc etc. all these things make up for white privilege. i know because i had a west virginia white boy make it into my ivy league grad school even though he was nothing special

>>12707227
We have no idea how language originates, yet we know for a fact when someone is dyslexic, or has speech impediments. Common sense dictates that we know when someone is a legitimate retard, and when someone isn't. IQ tests aren't perfect, but they are rather good at prediction g-factor in humans. And the g-factor is remarkably stable across age, and replicable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)
All of your criticisms are merely echoing the criticisms that arose only after eugenics policies were enforced against retards in an effort to wash history of its sins. But facts have a little habit of resisting destruction.

>>12707237
>There's no reliable way to test the cognitive capabilities of a person

>The ability to absorb and apply information is magick, yep, that's just it. No further discussion

>>12707223

> There's no such thing. You'd think biological differences between men and women would fall there, but there's still people arguing for (and winning) trans people in sports, women in combat military roles, etc.

Those are in fact "can't be ignored" differences, even if some stubbornly insist that they are ignoring them. Not a single person sincerely thinks women can compete on an equal level, it's all mental gymnastics and politics. It's not ignored, it's denied.

The situation with black and white IQ is not so obvious, even though the evidence exists to reasonably come to that conclusion. A person can still naively and reasonably suspect that there's no "important" genetic differences between race. There's a lot more overlap between racial IQ's than there is between physical strength and gender, and the latter is much more easily observed and defined.

>>12707253
You ever notice how it's only ever bougie academics like you who had wealthy parents and an easy ride through life who assert that racial or gendered privilege exists? Not one of you fucking faggots have ever put forth the notion that there is class privilege, and that this absolutely dwarfs any ridiculous notion of racial or gendered or cis privilege. It's like you motherfuckers get off on misattributing your wealth privilege to places it doesn't exist, as if you're hiding the true advantages in society.

Good luck finding a rags to riches story of someone who believes in privilege theory.

>>12707227

>The thing with IQ, is that it's a test done under the assumption that everyone should be able to understand it, while the reality is that variable factors such as quality of education and environment will heavily affect the results of the test.

You clearly don't know a single thing about IQ tests. What prompts you to make such a post when you're talking completely out of your ass? Please educate yourself on the subject.

I would recommend The Neuroscience of Intelligence by Haier

>>12707253
>most medicaid recipients are white. also welfare?
That's because white people are (still) the majority in the US.
All of those are available and claimed by anyone, there's anything white Americans receive FOR being white.

>>12707257
anon, you are correct but you are really laying a trap for yourself. the problem for you is that the identity politics camp that encompasses your side of the argument is completely bought into the tranny thing, so they will attack your side of the argument on that even if you are not saying that

>>12707257
>A person can still naively and reasonably suspect that there's no "important" genetic differences between race.

No, a person can be excused for denying the gap since even mentioning its possible existence gets the cancel culture vultures circling

>>12707125
1. Race is bullshit. We are all one race: the human race.
2. IQ is bullshit. Recognizing contrived patterns on a paper says nothing about an individual.
3. Combining two retarded things into one makes it doubly retarded

Now watch how he recoils, how injured he is. "You're a fucking redditor!" he decries. :^)

>>12707264
heck, i don’t deny class privilege, whatsoever. it’s big. i mean, wealthy people educate their kids and expose them to arts and culture and etc so of course they turn out smarter. not denying that.

>>12707253
>farm subsidies
Oh yes, because they get farm subsidies for being white.

> i know because i had a west virginia white boy make it into my ivy league grad school even though he was nothing special
Oh great, we're just using any old anecdote now huh? As if rural whites have college mandated AA programs, demographic quotas and so forth. If you're white generally "excuses" don't get you anywhere, I have literally never seen a guy get into grad school because his parent was an alcoholic or something.

>>12707276
Yes race is such bullshit that it can be determined genetically

Funny how IQ is only bullshit when it serves to prop up egalitarian garbage

>>12707275

> No, a person can be excused for denying the gap since even mentioning its possible existence gets the cancel culture vultures circling

Of course. This isn't incompatible with my point. Which is that the belief can be rationally sincere, even if a person holds an ideologically bias towards it. You cannot say the same for those who insist there are no gender differences, which is 100% a cope.

>>12707283
>Yes race is such bullshit that it can be determined genetically
You don't know anything about cluster analysis

>>12707283
When is IQ not bullshit?

>>12707277
> i don’t deny class privilege, whatsoever. it’s big
Yeah? How big? Consider the following:
>Take two white people: all else equal, assign a probability that being poor lends you to crime rather than being rich.
>Take a black and a white person, both from wealthy parents, and all-else equal: assign a probability that being black leads you to crime over being white.
>Take a black and a white, both with dirt poor parents: assign a probability that being black leads you to crime over being white.
What's your gut tell you? Next, ask whether the amount of research and media presented on such events are commensurate with your gut. You, and all your colleagues, are just a bunch of virtue signalling faggots. You claim you don't deny class privilege, yet you motherfuckers actively deny it.

>>12707293
When it shows that a certain small hatted demographic is supposedly smarter on average

>>12707293

When the 1000th study about how conservatives are dumber than liberals is published and articles are written about it in the mainstream media

>>12707279
>As if rural whites have college mandated AA programs, demographic quotas and so forth. If you're white generally "excuses" don't get you anywhere,
this is just plain wrong. poor white folks who try and make it in academia DEFINITELY use that. one of the most common lines every race uses is “first to go to college in my family” or “first to graduate college in my family” and that is universally a plus on applications. and just because you don’t know any white boys who played their “my sad background” card doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. heck, just being a MORMON plays well on applications nowadays

>>12707298
OK, if you are black and wealthy means you probably don’t have an entire family of wealthy folks. if you are white and wealthy, your probability of your whole family being wealthy is much higher. agreed?

if you are black and wealthy, the probability of most of your extended family living in urban detroit is higher too, right?

>>12707315
Also if you are black and wealthy, there's an overwhelming chance it's either due to athletic ability or some form of entertainment and nothing to do with brains

>>12707254
My apologies, i may have failed to get my message across, maybe i am just tired, let me try again.
What i meant to say is; trying to link IQ with race is foolish. There is differences in our cognitive capabilities just as there's differences in our physical capabilities, but just like not all members of a race are the best at something, not all the members of a race are bad at something. If to that you add the fact that environment (society treatment towards different races through history for example) has led to clear differences in the upbringing in the media of said race, you get the idea of why this sort of studies are flawed, not because it doesn't show something real, but because it can't prove One person of a race is smarter than another person from another race, for the mere fact of being part of said race.

>>12707315
>>12707317
>I don't deny class privilege
>I'll just make up a laundry list of reasons for why a wealthy black person is oppressed
Thanks for demonstrating my point, faggot.

>>12707322
Class privilege extends further than one generation

>>12707266
Will check it out, i am honestly interested in the subject.

>>12707300
So why are nogs the problem but not whites when clearly both are inferior to da joos?

>>12707340
So first of all, we're agreeing that IQ tests are accurate?

>>12707305
>https://www.chronicle.com/article/harvard-is-challenged-on-whether-socioeconomic-status-should-replace-race-as-admissions-factor/
>In each of the models he reviewed, the portion of African-American students admitted declined, from 14 percent to 10 percent or lower. The number of white applicants admitted stayed the same — at 40 percent — or decreased


>https://hbr.org/2016/12/research-how-subtle-class-cues-can-backfire-on-your-resume
>https://hechingerreport.org/a-big-reason-rural-students-never-go-to-college-colleges-dont-recruit-them/

>>12707349
I'm not the anon you originally replied to.

>>12707321
>t to say is; trying to link IQ with race is foolish. There is differences in our cognitive capabilities just as there's differences in our physical capabilities, but just like not all members of a race are the best at something, not all the members of a race are bad at something. If to that you add the fact that environment (society treatment towards different races through history for example) has led to clear differences in the upbringing in the media of said race, you get the idea of why this sort of studies are flawed, not because it doesn't show something real, but because it can't prove One person of a race is smarter than another person from another race, for the mere fact of being part of said race.

You're wrongly assuming that there's no other utility to this information than what you can immediately think of.

Here's an example of how it's relevant - black students consistently score lower on test scores than whites and other races pretty much in line with IQ differences. How do you contextualize this if you insist there's no racial differences in IQ? By fruitlessly pointing the finger at the wrong causes, such as insisting the system is racist. And that leads to ineffective solutions, like no child left behind, or the push for more "inclusive" cirriculum.

>when your mere existence proves seething stormfags wrong
OP BTFO

>>12707321
We don't need all people of a race or any defined group of people to have higher IQ than another, just their average, which, if it follows a gaussian distribution as commonly accepted, can have a significant difference.

If a group A has 105 average IQ while group B has 95 average IQ (not too far from the median), group A would have 5% of its population with an IQ of 130 or higher, while in group B the number of people with that score would be only 1%. That's five times more people with "high" IQ that's likely to work in highly intellectually-intensive fields.

>>12707352
do you have an argument?

>>12707386
Yes, admit it, blacks are over-represented in college, in a way no amount of "socioeconomic factors" can explain. That alone should be an indicator that they're naturally of lower IQ.

>>12707321
>this sort of studies are flawed, not because it doesn't show something real
Implying the results show something real.
> it can't prove One person of a race is smarter than another person from another race
Correct. Denying the reality of these large-scale differences is akin to denying the reality that men are taller than women.
>b-b-but anon, that's a foolish claim! for, you see, just because men are taller than women on average doesn't mean any random male is taller than a female!
Correct. But it's also completely accurate to say most men are taller than most women.

>>12707384
>>12707386
I mean college admissions btw, not college graduates.

>>12707359
I am not saying the system is racist. I am saying you can't expect that a study done to populations with such disparities in their communities to be the same. There IS utility to this information but not to prove A is better than B, just for being A.
Also, i am against bullshit like inclusive programs and whatnot. Another political tool used to gain popularity among the ignorant at the expense of increasing mediocrity and held back those that do actually pursue excellence.

>>12707390
the whole point is that simple socioeconomic factors don’t encompass what admissions criteria would care about even excluding race. as an example, what proportion of white lower-middle or lower class high school seniors apply to high-tier schools, and what proportion of black lower-middle or lower-class high school seniors apply to high tier schools? and what proportion of each group has parents or grandparents or aunts or uncles who were among high-tier school alums?

my point is that even regardless of socio-economics, there are cultural things at play that generally cause white folks to identify with academia whereas black people feel like outsiders to academia. so just that cultural factor causes a “pipeline problem” where colleges can’t even make a representative student body because the applicants self-select themselves in a way that under represents black people even at the APPLICATION level because of decades of culture

>>12707398
Better plot for readability. I made this shit from scratch, using real height data with men and women (using same standard deviation, the actual values are a bit different). So I hope you appreciate the effort. Faggots.

>>12707202
true

>>12707218
literally nothing wrong with what these people are doing. I know the knock out game is probably more your speed darkie but white people don't just attack people as a hobby. The people in that picture build and maintain civilizations.

>>12707413
What the fuck do the regions mean?

>>12707287
ironic

>>12707433
>literally nothing wrong with what these people are doing
redneck detected

>>12707433
>literally nothing wrong with what these people are doing

>>12707436
The area under the graph. I updated it for a final version, with source, and real data.

There is literally no scientific basis for equality, it's just pure ideology. There isn't much for racial differences in intelligence because research is taboo but what exists is infinitely better than the literal nothing that exists for racial equality. Combined with simply looking at the history of the world and the general performance of modern population groups compared to each other I see no reason not to be a race realist, of course having hatred and being a racist about it is still retarded and just because the average is dumber doesn't mean that sub-Saharan Africans can't be very intelligent individually. Hopefully we (east Asians) don't fall for the retardation of white liberalism in the coming decades. thanks for coming to my ted talk

>>12707488
>(east Asians)
tl:dr and also won’t read thx

>>12707495
>greentexted excerpt is from near the end
>tl;dr didn't read
kek

>>12707154
Exactly, if you read some of the old, academic discussions you'll notice a shift in arguments the more understood the human genome has become. The environmentalist side has been pretty much btfoed for a ddcade or two, so now they attack the discussion as a whole.

My favourite is the strawman that aknowledging racial IQ differences will lead to genocide.

>>12707160
Should police be armed with teacup poodles?
Or should deny opportunity and throw hurdles in front of our best and brightest for "progress"
You can't educate an 85 IQ person into a 130 IQ person. If only it were that easy.

>>12707248
We don't need to understand the how to measure the what. People have succesfully bred animals a long time before we understood the processes behind it.

>>12707253
>parent got black lung from the mines, parent died in the mines,
Alright, Dickens.

>>12707142
I TURNED MYSELF INTO AN AUTIST CENTRAL, MORTY! I AM /riq/ GENERAL.

>>12707287
What in your opinion causes the purely physical differences such as skin colour, head shape and eye colour by which we recognize the ethnicity of someone?

>>12707454
>>12707452
>playing in the mud is wrong
Go outside

>>12707148
He said "opportunity". It's not like there is a real chance a black will ever become relevant outside of entertainment.