/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12648540
Come back and notify us when it's financially viable

>>12648543
I would, but I'd have to invent a time machine to contact your past self, possibly your parents instead.

>>12648548
>costs $20k to install solar panels with batteries in a home
Wow so affordable

>>12648540
I LOVE SCIENCE!

>>12648543
did you not get the notice a few years ago?

>>12648540
>virgin trickle energy from Big Sun
vs
>chad make your own sun in the backyard

>>12648564
>https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019
>https://www.lazard.com/media/451087/lazards-levelized-cost-of-storage-version-50-vf.pdf
>Project economics analyzed for solar PV + storage systems are attractive for short duration wholesale and commercial
use cases but remain challenged for residential and longer duration wholesale projects
I might read into it more later when I got the time, but if anyone checked it out already, do these numbers just apply to short-duration use? Do they estimate the price by taking into consideration the total power-output of solar until decommissioning and the total cost of production/maintenance/decommissioning?

>>12648553
Stop being poor, then?

>>12648540
because building solar on fertile land is retarded and you even get government subsidies for it
than farmers get subsidies as they have no land to use

if you don't build it in desert or on roof it's retarded and useless

>>12648540
Why support solar when you can support nuclear fusion.

>>12648581
This

>>12648540
Not buying an array until the laws in my state change.
I'd be required to hook my solar panels to a special electrical box which sends my generated power to the grid. I could then buy the power back at a discount.

>>12648540
>>he doesn't support x
>explain yourself, faggot
Stop making these bullshit low effort threads

>>12648540
We need batteries that are more durable/ better suited for grid storage to get around the whole "night" time when there's no sun and power usage is at it's peak. I mean, it could honestly happen in the next 5 -10 years but that's the problem with it now.

>>12648941
Because one of them works now.

>>12648540
>faggot
Why the homophobia?

>>12648540

Solar is obviously the future it's just a matter of how long it will take for the technology to reach the point it needs to for it to replace everything
Once it does that's it there will basically never be a need for any other energy sources literally until the sun explodes but if we make it to that point we'll already be long gone from this system

>>12648540
low efficiency, it breaks after 25 years and costs a shitton of money to recycle, it works top only in places where nobody lives and energy transmission to the real world is shit

>>12649872
Ummm, we'll have it working in the current year + 30 years, sweaty. No worries.

>>12649873
you have to go back newfriend

>>12648540
cause when i flip the switch in my house i like the lights to come on all the time not just for 2 hrs once a day.

>>12648540
P E R O V S K I T E

Because nuclear power is, and always will be the future.

>>12650142
>low efficiency
utterly meaningless
>it breaks after 25 years
and is still cheaper than fuel and maintenance compared to nuclear/coal etc.
>costs a shitton of money to recycle
not really, it's mainly just a case of economies of scale. The infrastructure just isn't really there yet because there aren't enough old panels yet.
> it works top only in places where nobody lives
just incorrect, there's not shortage of land.
> and energy transmission to the real world is shit
also just wrong, though infrastructure improvements would only help. For example with an actual HVDC grid New york could be selling power to California in the morning due to their 3 hour earlier sunrise, and vise versa with California's 3 hour later sunset. with ~6% transmission losses

>>12650333
based 1950s poster

>>12650591
>useless during night
>useless during cloudy weather
>useless during any seasons not summer.
>dependent on subsidies to give any payback.

>>12648540

>>12650640
>>useless during night
>>useless during cloudy weather
>>useless during any seasons not summer.
incorrect

>>dependent on subsidies to give any payback.
Just like nuclear, oil and coal.

10 shekels have been deposited into your account for shilling ((big fossil fuel))

>>12650591
>>12650640
do you belong to some solar cult or what? Solar is a scam. The only thing that I see close to a working solution are Tesla's solar roofs but there is still a lot to do.

>>12650591
>>12650668
do you belong to some solar cult or what? Solar is a scam. The only thing that I see close to a working solution are Tesla's solar roofs but there is still a lot to do.

>>12648540
im not a homosexual

>>12652103
but you will never be a woman

>>12652104
Thank God

>>12652117
this lol

They aren't especially difficult to build by yourself, it's pretty doable to build one in a day if you have all the materials. It seems quite economical to do it this way too for a residential purpose. Buying a panel and having it fitted means it may pay for itself in 10-15 years or longer through energy bill savings, however if you just make it yourself then it can pay for itself in only around 2-3 years. I'm surprised more people don't at least look into this

>>12652128
>build by yourself
growing silica polycrystals from the melt?

>>12649112
Fellow Pole?

>>12652128
in some states putting solar on your roof is actually an great investment

>>12652128
You'd be better off building a solar powered steam generator

>>12652141
That might be going a bit far, although I did actually look into that. I did some calculations a few months ago that involved buying a bunch of solar cells from china, they are extremely easy to chain together and the rest of the construction is just low level stuff like building a frame and applying a clear resin barrier and a bit of electrical know-how

>>12652209
Sounds interesting, could also maybe look into building some sort of pump system that functions like a battery to save even more money at night, logistically that could be tiresome though and you'd need a lot of space I guess

If I recall the price of just making a solar panel yourself is like 1/6 the cost of buying one pre-made, something like this is necessary in the UK where we don't get a whole lot of sunlight but it could still be economical

>>12648540
If solar wasn't a pussy half measure and we actually went ahead and build orbital solar platforms I would support it.

Hydroenergy is the best by far.

>>12648553
>You never have to pay energy bills ever again
>No power outages ever
>True independence from the grid
It's saving you money. That's like whining college is expensive or a car to commute is expensive. You have to spend money to save money.

>>12649867
Actually power usage peaks during daytime and drops off a cliff after 6 pm

It's cloudy in Finland and solar plants require space and ruin the landscape. Not to mention that we need that land to feed ourselves. Nuclear is much better.

>>12652297
lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Construction_delays

>>12652246
pretty much every satellite is a small orbital solar platform

pic related.

>>12648540
If solar is so great, why does it need some nobody like me to support it? Surely it can stand on its own merits.

>>12652280
>thinking you never have to replace batteries
>thinking you never have to replace panels

>20k
Barely even 10k nowadays depending on what parts you get

>>12648543
It is. A ton of people are set up arrays that don't give a shit about global warming because it's so profitable.

>>12648564
>did you not get the notice a few years ago?
What, you mean when the federal government started using tax revenue and borrowed money to hurl money at solar to make it barely competitive?

If a car company has to pay a dealership to knock the price on a certain model down to something affordable, it's not an affordable car.

>>12648540
>faggot
Why the homophobia?

promoting solar to home-owners actually makes sense, you can not put a hydro dam in your backyard but you can put panels on your roof

>>12652280
this.

>>12652280
>lithium strip mine powerwall creates fire tornado 100 feet tall when house burns
>toxic hydroflouric acid etched subsidised china child labor solar panels lose generating efficiency after 15 years and aren't viable in northern cloudy climates
>wind turbines don't kill a lot of birds
>kill large bodied birds like eagles and condors, not wrens and finches

>>12655628
But your solar charged Powerball won't run an electric range and furnace at the same time. Or individually, really. Hope you cook and hea5r with gas and just use electric for lights and the blender.

>>12655683
*Powerwall
*heat
Fuck spellcheck

>>12648543

what does financial viability have to do with science you sperg

>>12648581
why don't they just make really really really big fusion reactors instead of tiny baby fusion reactors? wouldn't economics of scale somehow magically make it work?

>>12653125
All those panels are going into a landfill in 10 years.

>>12652297
So you're eating all those trees?

>>12648540
i want all life to die

>>12648540
Dark solar panels heat up the earth due to albedo and that also makes them less efficient/effective
Maybe they are trying to heat the earth¿

>>12655755
economy of scale works best the more units you can manufacture, that's why solar wins

>>12655815
Yes.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-biggest-industries-in-finland.html

>>12654370
spotted the fag

>>12648564
>solar panels made with coal energy in China
>comparing cost of peak solar without counting intermittent power that has to be turned on every night and cloudy day with actual 24h power sources

>>12652284
Still more than solar panels produce at night.

>>12648540
Bamboo is self storing, self replicating, more efficient afaik (depending on the gasifier or heat engine) and more versatile, especially if we can culture or modify microbes to allow for rhetting and spinning of the fibers. Grass has been capturing solar energy for thousands of years before we have with dirt water and thin air. We just haven't caught up yet.

>>12655760

I wish
I would go haul them back out and make a killing

With global warming, there'll be more and stronger sunlight everyday, thus making solar more viable with each minute that goes by.

>>12648540
Am a nuclear guy

>last like 10 years
>we still can't really process them in any meaningful way

>>12650142
correct
>>12650591
wrong

>>12657289
Doing.....what? Copper scrap? Refurb panels? Please do share.

>>12648618
>solar half the cost of coal
Yeah sure bud I'm totally going to trust that source

>>12648540
It's only useful on building roofs for solar thermal or for shit you don't want to stick a wire to
A good solar thermal system combined with a Stirling generator and a heat pump ground storage is the true way to enjoy the sun's power

>>12660928
>oh noes, facts
go back

>>12657649
Why are you spreading lies? Manufacturers guarantee 90% capacity for 20 years. It's a safe bet because even very old panels run with almost original efficiency.

Also panels are made of glass, metal,silicon and some plastic foil to glue it together. Heat it up, burn away plastics. The rest is easy to recycle.

>>12660994
>oh noes, basic reasoning

>>12648540
They don't look as huge and cool as windmills, furnaces and dams do. Rid me of this design and we'll talk

>>12660928
believe it
the costs for photovoltaics keep dropping like a rock and it just keeps going down - while efficiency and longevity slowly keeps rising
soon it will be cheaper to build solar panels than to burn coal

>>12648540
Solar power is just a stop-gap until we first build more fission power plants, then eventually fusion power plants. Then we can get rid of all that ugly shit shitting up the landscape.

>>12661900
>m-muh feelings
lol, what is free fuel

>>12648553
>>12648628
it's not even really about being poor the return rate for solar is abysmal, it'll take about 10+ years to cut even on your initial investment, if tesla can't even do it right who can

>>12648540
Solar isn't practical on a large scale right now

>>12665287
well

>>12655679
>fracking dumps tons of heavy metals into water supplies
>coal plants kill tens of thousands of people with particulate pollution every year
>Oilspills happen every few years, causing massive ecological damage
By all means, keep whining about lithium mines faggot hypocrite.

>>12665178
In your graph you forget the part when enough coal power shut down that you get no electricity during the nights, blackouts during cloudy weather.

You have been brainwashed into thinking there is sun during the night. It's a pretty insane religious belief. Good luck on returning to sanity.

>>12665430
the age of coal is over, even in the birthplace of coal power
> Britain goes coal free as renewables edge out fossil fuels
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52973089

>>12665699
Delusional. We are in the age of coal right now. Look at China.

You seem like a leftist part of the "solar" religious sect. I advise educating yourself and quitting your cult.