/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12656959
Was listening to a thing about human perception of time and apparently people with ADHD have a different experience of it.

>>12656959
>the biggest myth?
That's the Loch Ness monster btw.

No, and I think reports of overdiagnosis have made many believe it is all bullshit. Not everyone that got diagnosed with ADHD had it, but people genuinely do, and it can be quite a burden.

>>12656959
“Take your meds” is a literal psyop

This is the narrative now, an entire world where the average person pushes for the lobotomisation of other individuals

We only have the cowards to blame

>>12656993
This.

"Oh you're an 8 year old boy who can't sit still for 7 hours a day and learn decimals? Take these meds for the rest of your life!"

>>12656959
I got diagnosed at 19 because I had troubles listening to people and letting their information process

>>12657016
You shouting that is becoming the psyop.
Go make an appointment with your therapist.

>>12656959
Doctors and big pharma use this lie to their advantage. The more pills they push the more income they make. The medicine is addictive and will only make things worse. If you have trouble concentrating you don't have ADHD you just need to practice focusing. ADD is also fake.

"ADHD is a prime example of a fictitious disease." -Dr. Leon Eisenberg (creator of ADHD)

>>12657088
Quit dictating the narrative, if anything it’s another psyop

>>12656959
My response, just as obnoxious as this thread.

>>12656959
don't know if its ADHD or not, I'm unable to memorize things and interpret basic information, consequently, I have trouble solving problems and not doing good academically or socially. Wanted to end it all but I'm a coward.

>>12656959
Something that exists isn't a myth. Over-diagnosis isn't the same as non-existent.

>>12658875
but it doesn't exist. its literally made up

>>12656959
The pharmacy industry and healthcare in general (especially America) is a huge sham where drugs that have fuck all efficacy are given out like candy and lifestyle changes which will cure most problems like adhd are ignored. (((they)) are largely to blame but the lazy retards who want a pill so they don't have to deal with their kid acting like a kid are just as much at fault.

>>12658875
It's non-existent outside of western cultures (same with anorexia btw). At the very best you could classify it as a culture-bound syndrome.

>>12656959
its just low attention span due to bad parenting

>>12657101
>>12657429
>>12659416
>>12660340
You obviously know nothing about ADHD and need to shut the fuck up.

I have ADD with executive function disorder. Im a walking talking mess, a 30 year old male with a mind of a 18 year old - a mind that cannot organise or learn anything new even if my life depends on it.
Medication helped me immensely and without going to my psych for therapy i would probably end up killing myself because - and this is a common problem in individuals with severe ADHD and ADD and especially EFD individuals - its like playing life on the hard setting - and we are prone to depression and substance abuse because of that.
Not to mention that its a known fact - what part of the brain is underdeveloped, no shit its the part of the brain that regulates memory and executive function.
I love being on sci but sometimes i really feel like im being persecuted as a fucking idk, lesser life form.
You dont want to have this , you dont want your kids to have it.
And im from europe and we dont have a problem like you in the usa - the prevalence of bad diagnosis and over diagnosis.
Concerta is literally illegal here - my psych told me that because of the farmakomafia wars, someone there in their ivory tower doesnt want to give the people their ADHD meds because its not currently profitable or who knows why.

Also you cannot get addicted to the meds if you take them sensibly. You literally need to be a stupid idiot to get addicted, to break the pill in half and do that like all the time.

And if you knew me personally youd either think that im unhinged and crazy for fucking up all of the most important things in my life (that EFD) - or you would start believing i have some sort of mental illness.
I lost many jobs because one day i would wake up and realise - i hate this. I want something new even if this might cost me everything - and have to start from scratch.
Concerta fixed my motivation and energy levels and bunch more.

>>12659416
Again - in europe your psych will tell you

ADHD medicine is just 15 percent of your recovery, it is there to push you to overcome some difficulties, you drink it for 3 months and it accumulates in that underdeveloped part of the brain - most get rid of symptoms when they turn 35 because that part of the brain finally develops fully - if only too late for some because by then if untreated they probably fucked up their life somehow.

I have a list of things i must do, and also need to take care about what food i eat and much more things.
Europe is not as fucked as the usa that gives Adderall willy nilly.
Adults with untreated ADHD always have a completely different response to medicine.

A neurotypical man , if he was to take my meds now - he would fucking lose it - while to me even first day i tried it - its nothing special.

Id like to give my meds to all the faggots like you non believers on sci - and see their reaction.

Also explain superfocus.
I have superfocus and it helped me be the best at what i do. Its the single greatest tool for creatives - and only people with ADHD can have superfocus on that magnitude.

>>12660385
>>12660409
again i bet 100 cactus dollars to all the neurotypical fags here that
You take 100 people with adhd
and 100 neurotypicals

Do a test, see what group learns some shit faster - you will have considerable results - the adhd group will always struggle

Repeat this somehow for their whole lives and the adhd will never, never be able to compete with neurotypicals - this blows the - you can just practice this shit duhh retards i couldn focus once so i learned by reading books about memory and suddenly i could..

Its a mental deficiency - that affects working memory and many more stuff.
I could never, EVER learn to do most basic of stuff.
It took me 12 years to learn somehow - to turn on my boiler after midnight because the power is more cheaper then. Many such cases.
Ive tried all sorts of things because my parents wanted me to be PERFECT
until i got to therapy , and started taking concerta nothing could work

>>12660385
>>12660409
>>12660423
>60423▶
>>>12660385 (You)
There is so much logical evidence for ADHD being real, maybe if you did actual research for once you would not come here to spout such nonsense.

Yes im aware that its a nuanced subject - and that the farmakomafia is real - but that doesnt mean that ADHD doesnt exist.

>>12660385
Isn't ADHD basically executive dysfunction?

>>12660385
I'm used to triggering ADHDlets by posting that post. Never, at any time, have they ever brought forward an argument that did not revolve around their personal hardship and a lot of internalized hatred for themselves.
>what part of the brain is underdeveloped, no shit its the part of the brain that regulates memory and executive function.
No consistent biological marker has been found for AD(H)D to this date.
>im being persecuted as a fucking idk, lesser life form.
Tell that to someone with Schizophrenia.
>the prevalence of bad diagnosis and over diagnosis.
The prevalence rate do not differ markedly between Europe and USA except for France whose psychologists don't believe in ADHD.
>Also you cannot get addicted to the meds if you take them sensibly
Your meds literally consist of amphetamines and phenethylamines. The same class of chemicals, all of which share very similar molecular structure, that also encompasses a bunch of different and usually very addictive drugs and hallucinogenes.
It's also known by now that your favorite treatment is a gateway drug.
>or you would start believing i have some sort of mental illness.
According to the DSM-5, developmental disabilities are mental illnesses.
>I lost many jobs because one day i would wake up and realise - i hate this.
And instead of asking yourself why you hate the job or your life, you choose to blame a rather fictitious boogie-man construct?

>>12660409
>while to me even first day i tried it - its nothing special.
Desensibilization is a thing. That's why your shrink will always introduce some new drug every second year to "treat" your illness.
>Id like to give my meds to all the faggots like you non believers on sci
No need to because I am already familiar with your meds.
>I have superfocus and it helped me be the best at what i do.
Yet, at the same time you seem to struggle immensely with focusing on things. Also superfocus is found in a number of different disorders, including Autism and Borderline disorder.
>There is so much logical evidence for ADHD being real,
My post never stated that there is not such a group of people who can't shift their attention, are fidgety and show poor executive function. What my post criticized is the deliberate inflation of these subgroup to include tons of people who are not significantly affected by any such disturbances and the treatment of that "disorder" which really only consists of administering sedative and immobilizing drugs to children, despite not knowing or caring about the deleterious long-term effects.

>>12659416
>It's non-existent outside of western cultures
I'm dubious. Undiagnosed doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>(same with anorexia btw)
That's bullshit. It's common in Asia.

>>12660340
>its just low attention span due to bad parenting
That follows through into adulthood? I think constant multi-tasking and being attached to our phones is causing re-wiring in the brain. It's training the brain that constant focus is unnecessary. Attention and focus can be trained, we know this, so I don't see why bad habits can't cause it to degrade. I also suspect neurotransmitters play a role in some people, making them more susceptible.

>>12657026
>"Oh you're an 8 year old boy who can't sit still for 7 hours a day and learn decimals? Take these meds for the rest of your life!"
You are an idiot if you think that's what an ADHD is and that's how frivolously it is diagnosed. The real problem is the underdiagnosing of ADHD.
I'm 29 and I was recently diagnosed with ADD. So I suffered through the opposite problem - not getting the right treatment when I needed it, because people around me and teachers in school treated it too much as a meme. And it's not like it was in some long forgotten past where everything was different, ADHD was hot shit back then and I think it was talked about more than nowadays. Honestly, my case wasn't as severe as some, and that's partly the reason why I flew under the radar, but it was still pretty damn severe. In retrospect, many symptoms were there and they were painfully obvious and everyone knew I was standing out, just no one connected the dots what the reason.
My life would be so much better if I knew about it as a kid and knew how to deal with it, because I went though so, so much shit in school and a 12 years long depression resulting from it. Life is getting better now though.
PS. you don't have to take the meds if you don't want to

>itt ignorant imbeciles who don't know what it is because they never experienced it and can't imagine being someone who has
I honestly am glad you didn't have to go through it though

>itt dumb fucks thinking adhd is overdiagnosed because media, especially foxnews and such like to make fuss about it claiming it's not real, when irl it exactly the opposite and the real problem is underdiagnosis

>>12657101
>"ADHD is a prime example of a fictitious disease." -Dr. Leon Eisenberg (creator of ADHD)
So? Should we take his words for granted just because he discovered it?
You realize that's exactly the opposite of how science works?

>>12657101
You're somewhat right and somewhat wrong. It's true that doctors resort to drugs too often. That doesn't mean there isn't a real, underlying issue. Also, the quote you're using from Eisenberg is seriously distorted.

>A tall, thin man with glasses and suspenders opened the door to his apartment in Harvard Square in 2009, invited me to the kitchen table, and poured coffee. He said that he never would have thought his discovery would someday become so popular. “ADHD is a prime example of a fabricated disorder,” Eisenberg said. “The genetic predisposition to ADHD is completely overrated.”

>Instead, child psychiatrists should more thoroughly determine the psychosocial reasons that can lead to behavioral problems, Eisenberg said. Are there fights with parents, are there are problems in the family? Such questions are important, but they take a lot of time, Eisenberg said, adding with a sigh: “Prescribe a pill for it very quickly.”

So he never said it was fake, he said that it's not generally something a person is predisposed to, and environmental factors play a major role. He would agree with you about the overprescription of pills, but not your idea that it isn't a real problem that doesn't require any form of treatment.

The medical industry just wants lifelong customers, and they have every right to increase their profit.

>>12660542
>What my post criticized is the deliberate inflation of these subgroup to include tons of people who are not significantly affected by any such disturbances
this inflation is a popular humbug spread by fringe media

>>12660510
>No consistent biological marker has been found for AD(H)D to this date.
Should that surprise anyone? It's almost certain it's a complex disorder which isn't encoded by simple markers.
It's like taking 100 different images of a banana - some hand-drawn, others being photos, some realistic, other cartoonish, different kinds, colours etc - and trying to look through their binary file information for simple binary markers. You won't find any, but those are still images of a banana. Maybe you could if you used a neural network, but it would give you something way beyond a simple genetic marker.
>Tell that to someone with Schizophrenia.
lol, and? What's your point, that there are always people starving in africa who have it worse?
>And instead of asking yourself why you hate the job or your life
But he did, and he came to a conclusion it was ADHD. I'm not him so I don't know how valid the conclusion is, but that's definitely something typical of people suffering from it
>boogie-man construct
you sound like a flat earther

>>12660684
Are you the guy who could see ghosts on /x/? You talk the same

>>12660793
I've literally never been on /x/
>You talk the same
might be because ESL

>>12660793
>You talk the same
yeah, we, the people with adhd tend to sound similar

>>12660594
>That's bullshit.
Source: dude trust me
>It's common in Asia.
Literally did not exist in asian until american influence and only really exists in areas with a heavy western influence

>>12660409
>A neurotypical man , if he was to take my meds now - he would fucking lose it
Say that to any medschool student here, everyone mainlines adhd meds and functions perfectly fine.
>you drink it for 3 months and it accumulates in that underdeveloped part of the brain
You're brain isn't "underdeveloped" it's just different from the normal. Humans were not made to function like we do in western society. All that's happening if your taking amphetamines until your brain is fried and you're considered a "normal"" person.

>>12660931
>Source: dude trust me
You seriously need a source to prove anorexia is common in Asia?

>Literally did not exist in asian until american influence and only really exists in areas with a heavy western influence
Ah, so you *do* know it exists in Asia, but now you're blaming Western influence, which still doesn't match your original claim that it only exists in the West. Also, I checked your claim about ADHD not existing outside of the West, and that's false as well.

>>12660951
>You seriously need a source to prove anorexia is common in Asia?
It literally did not exist before western influence and does not exist in areas that aren't influenced by the west.

If you want to read my first statement again here it is.
>It's non-existent outside of western cultures (same with anorexia btw)

>Also, I checked your claim about ADHD not existing outside of the West, and that's false as well.
Oh you fact checked my claim? And what evidence do you have to show for it? Surely you would have actual evidence to add to your post if you truly did fact check it like a journal article or something. But you clearly have no evidence and clearly did not put any effort into "fact checking" or you would have added it.

ADHD literally does not exist in hunter gather cultures, why? It's pretty fucking obvious when you have a hyperactive kid you put him to work doing strenuous physical activity. Not only that but it's been hypothesized that hunter gather cultures should have higher rates of ADHD as having a "mental disorder" like ADHD is actually incredibly beneficial to the hunter gather lifestyle, and guess what? Genetic mapping supports that theory.

ADHD is not a mental disorder, it's a made up disease/term for people who simply just have much more energy than the average person. Humans were not made to be sitting at a desk 10 hours a day, especially as a kid. It's a completely unnatural and culturally based disease, if you want to actually become enlightened on the subject I'd recommend reading picrelated.

>>12661005
>It literally did not exist before western influence and does not exist in areas that aren't influenced by the west.
Kek. I think you're missing something important. What you're really getting at is that it doesn't exist outside of industrialized countries with plenty of access to food. Anorexia becomes a solution for people who are overfed and where leanness is desired (which is a large part of the world). A country filled with starving people will obviously not have that issue. Every country with some wealth could be considered Westernized if you want to stretch it.

>Oh you fact checked my claim? And what evidence do you have to show for it? Surely you would have actual evidence to add to your post if you truly did fact check it like a journal article or something. But you clearly have no evidence and clearly did not put any effort into "fact checking" or you would have added it.
No, I was pretty much planning ahead, because you've already resorted to blaming Western culture for everything, so what's the point of wasting my own time? I looked it up for my own curiosity. It's in Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, S. Korea, Singapore, Vietnam.

>ADHD is not a mental disorder
I agree in most cases.

>it's a made up disease/term for people who simply just have much more energy than the average person.
I call bullshit. I already gave my own opinion earlier. Attention/focus can be improved by a number of means. Modern lifestyle is anti-focus, constantly shifting attention from social media to emails to videos to music, etc. I think some people probably have a legitimate, underlying issue, but I think many people have brains that have had a bad habit reinforced over decades. We're talking neural changes over time, which also means it's probably a slow process to correct it through neural adaptions.

>It's a completely unnatural and culturally based disease
Culture is poor wording imo, because modern, technological living isn't culture-based.

over-diagnosed so the public assumes its BS.

>>12657016
Do people in real life keep telling you to take your meds or are you just seething about an internet meme, newfag?

>>12657101
I speak German and tracked down the interview from which that quote is from. It's in "Der Spiegel", an issue around 2001, I think.

He didn't call ADHS fictitious, fake or made up. The context of that one sentence is that ADHS was the new hit thing back then and thererore seen everywhere.

>>12657503
Thank god you keep forgetting to buy bullets, am I right?

>>12661043
>What you're really getting at is that it doesn't exist outside of industrialized countries with plenty of access to food.
Again, I'd like to correct you here since you're obviously not caught up on the subject. There was a great study done on Hutterites to determine the rate of ADHD in their population, I'm sure you can guess what that rate was. When asked what happens if they have a kid with adhd symptoms, the answer was simple, they put them in high energy jobs and let them play more.
It has absolutely nothing to do with starving people.

>because you've already resorted to blaming Western culture for everything
First off anorexia has been considered a culturally bound syndrome since the late 90s, if you actually """"fact checked""" you'd know that.
Second off, as someone who's spent three years studying evolutionary psychology, it's painfully obvious to anyone in the discipline that the way Western society is set up is incredibly unnatural. Many of the common ailments and "mental disorders" are a result of this misalignment with our evolutionary roots.

Modern lifestyle
>Tell kid to sit in a classroom 8 hours a day listening to some depressed 35 year old teacher go on about shit they give zero fucks about
Throughout all of history
>Helping mom or dad with chores/work orPlaying with other kids
Do you see why one might make a kid bored as shit and express "adhd" symptoms

>>Modern lifestyle is anti-focus, constantly shifting attention from social media to emails to videos to music, etc
>Kid can't focus on school work
>Goes to dr
>Gets """ADHD"""" diagnosis
>Gets ADHD meds (which are literally just meth)
>Can focus now thanks to the meth
Ah yes, a very real mental disorder.

>Culture is poor wording imo
The common term is "Culturally bound disease" I'm sorry you don't like the proper term for the subject
>technological living isn't culture-based.
Oh really? People on the internet in china/india have the same internet culture as the west?

>>12656974
truth

>>12660385
hey man i have it too and need some help,
what sorta websites do you have that you can send me

or word docs books and shit.

link em

>>12660423
I was diagnosed and drugged and I do way better than my peers.
I was either misdiagnosed (maybe? but I still struggle with all of this when most other people don't seem to) or you're wrong and learning is more about motivation than the ability to pay attention or having a more functioning working memory.

>>12660791
>Should that surprise anyone?
It should surprise you since he claimed that ADHD causes measurable dysfunction in some parts of the brain which, as I pointed out, don't actually show up in clinical studies.
>lol, and? What's your point, that there are always people starving in africa who have it worse?
No, that he's a cry baby that has no understanding of what actual discrimination is. And considering your reaction, you're probably one too.
>But he did, and he came to a conclusion it was ADHD
Hitherto his whole argumentation resolved around how something vague prevented him from achieving his goals. It's extremely convenient to blame your shortcomings on a disorder, dissociate yourself from it and simultaneously do nothing about it.
>you sound like a flat earther
Not an argument. Resorting to ad hominem insult also highlights your utter lack of actual arguments.

Again, because so many people don't get it.

Science consists of hypotheses that model reality and should predict events based on what we know about reality so far. If something is measured and not predicted by a hypothesis or even contradicts the hypothesis, then the hypothesis is incomplete or even wrong and must be discarded or modified.

A very vague description that allows for any explanation is not science. A field where 90 % of the studies can't be reproduced, are eventually discarded because of methodological problems or compete against other studies that straight contradict them is not science. It looks "sciency" because brainlets are overwhelmed by the "sciency" language and the graphs.

>>12656974
It's like time moves so fucking fast. Hours seem like fucking minutes

I want them there pills that make me do work fast

>>12657016
I have diagnosed ADHD, focalin made me miserable throughout high school. stopped taking it in college. four and a half years later I made it through a STEM degree and 60 extra credits for a coast guard license. It was hell and my gpa was a 2.25, but way I see it? you're the sum of the chemicals in your brain. if you start pumping in focalin or whatever on a daily basis, you're no longer really yourself. Better to struggle through and win without the meds than rely on such a terrible crutch for the rest of your life.
>>12660385
stop taking your meds and literally just be yourself.

I would rather be an airhead who has to try harder than others than the quiet focalin taking boy who would go weeks without talking to anyone, simply because it didn't occur to him that he should try.
fuck meds forever, I refuse to take them

>>12656959
>..he asks, not being someone who has it
No, it's not, yes, I do have it, no, I'm not some Zoomer on Adderall, no, my parents are long since dead and actually *denied* there was anything 'wrong' with me therefore I never received treatment for it as a kid, no, I lived with it for decades without knowing why I had problems other people didn't have, and yes some counselor stumbled on it and tested me and YES I fucking have ADHD and that realization answered at least a dozen questions about myself I could never find the answers to previously.
People who don't have it and who are brainlets just assume it's imaginary, just like you're doing.
Good game, thanks for playing, now go get fucked.