/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12651011
Based Agena poster

reminder, HOP on TUESDAY

>>12651011
What did Tory mean by this?

>>12651025
He saw another rocket company take 7 months instead of 8 months to mill out a square centimeter of metal and learned his lesson

>>12651025
Just once?

https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1356053012347838465
>networks with Elon AND Test Shot Starfish
alright I'll come out and say it: Estronaut is based

>>12651030
he is no longer surprised by getting shown the fuck up by SpaceX

>>12651011
Hey guys, I had this weird pull and then the next thing I remember was throwing this shit here together for like 30 minutes. Half way through I was like contemplating on what the hell I'm doing with my life but decided to pull through. Well we are all in this together so this is part of your life now as well.

Sry.

>>12651076
>gas generator engine
>woman inside
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAP

>>12651076
what are her abilities

>>12651076
Wow how did Elon get so small

>>12651081
baptize by the fire of the hydrogen bomb

>>12651076
Good work anon, let autism guide you

>>12651076
Now this is autism

>>12651076
Based as fuck

>>12651076
Reminds me of this neir boss

>still using rockets in 20 fucking 21

holy shit when is it gonna end ?

>>12651132
When you invent warp drive, wormholes, or outright teleportation

>>12651132
Any better ideas?

>>12651011
LOL no

>>12651136
using piezoelectric vibration will let us achieve near light speed travel

>>12651133
If we could figure out cheap, very powerful contragravity, Aerospace would be fuck cheap and we would be a interplanetary empire within 50 years

>>12651140
All that does is create sonar and keep watches regulated

>>12651076

>>12651142
>contragravity
What?

>>12651140
Bro what are you smoking

>>12651145
No it can be used to push itself forward

>>12651148
To counteract gravity, without rockets

>>12651151
Give us an experimental setup and we can test its viability

>>12651151
Please show me a mineral that does this. I will give you millions of dollars

>>12651152
So you just mean if we could manipulate gravity we could easily get to space?

Could Zenit have been Falcon 9 before F9 was invented?
>has a similar diameter
>same lifting capacity as F9 v1.1
How difficult would it have been? Was there any proposals for propulsive landing of boosters before SpaceX?

>>12651159
Yes, and we could build planets to our specifications

>>12651157
>>12651158
NASA will be doing just that. They are funding a project for it

>>12651161
There were plans for landing the boosters with wings

>>12651171
Sauce, nigga

>>12651170
Is that you, Isaac Arthur?

>>12651171
1/10 effort shitposter

>>12651172
what anime is this from

>>12651180
"ifth we haf infinud resouwces we can make big tffhing"-Every Isaac Arthur video

>>12651172
I know they planned it for Energia II but I was wondering about reusability on the standalone boosters.

>>12651187
Basically, yeah. Kek

>>12651187
>ifth
lol

>>12651187
That's precisely why I hate this cunt. That and his scat fetish. Eugh.

>>12651123
Never seen that mate, looks very warhammer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwuRiIh2IlM
7 hours to spacewalk

>>12651161
The RD-170, even with its high throttle range, is to powerful to perform a propulsive landing.
How much weight would wings, control surfaces and landing gear take up?

>>12651276
>>12651161
How about something like an expanded RD-8 as a landing engine? It could sit below the landing hardware aerodynamic housing.

Starlink delayed another day to Feb 2
No need to get up at 6am tomorrow

>>12651320
still need to, stocks open at 6:30an PST

>>12651298
Don’t see why not. However MECO velocity is a huge issue. Falcon 9 MECO is at like 2.3 km/s max, and F9S2 has a high TWR. Ariane V/6’s velocity at MECO is like 5.5 km/s, and it’s upper stage has 1/8 the thrust of F9’s. Not every rocket works with Falcon 9 style reusability. That’s why Vulcan shits it’s engines out instead of landing on a boat.

Luckily ESA seems to have learned from their mistake and is planning on making a reusable vehicle for their Ariane 7 project

>>12651324
$gme?

Has anyone made a rocket with a center booster that doesn’t start firing at all until the side boosters have emptied and detached?

>>12651335
>literally F9 legs
ugh

>>12651340
No. Even Titan III/IV fire the engines briefly during booster firing

>>12651324
Still don't understand why SPCE does so well. It looks like it is held up only by meme magic.

>>12651340
Titans with the solid boosters did that, center core would light shortly before the solids were exhausted and jettisoned

Was there a more based and underrated rocket?

>>12651349
That's a big fairing

>>12651349
Yes, Atlas-Agena.

Titan-ACES when bros

>>12651349
>ywn see MOL launches from SLC-6
why live

>>12651369
Did they even intentionally design this thing or did they just take scraps and throw them together? So based

>>12651369
There’s a timeline where Gemini Big G’s had space battles with Soviet TKS’ in the 1980s and I’m sad that I don’t live in it

>>12651344
I actually own shares just because
>Cathie Wood's ARKX will be forced to buy millions of shares
>70% of the float is short
Fundamentally worth zero though, yeah

>>12651337
Bought at $12, out at $420.69

>>12651382
Weren't the TKS's just hardware modules to marry up with Salyuts, or did they have military applications in the Almaz series (2,3,5)?

>>12651395
Nah they only ever flew with Salyut. There were 4 TKS flights in total which is amazing and sad because they got so close to flying people.

>>12651398
I did know that there were only four launched, let's discuss. Weren't they (as far as we know) just glorified tugs? I seem to remember reading that they came up wtih equipment ready to go and were used to store other shit.

I understand the earlier poster might have been having a giggle but how would a Big Gemini and a (standalone?) TKS even wage battle, short of colliding?

>>12651395
TSK were designed to support the Almaz OPS stations.
The Salyut DOS stations were basically an OPS shell with a Soyuz proposition module at the back and a Soyuz docking ring at the front.

By the late 1970s the two programs merged together after the moon flyby/landing program (that Soyuz was developed out of) was cancelled and the Ministry of Defence lost interest in manned stations.

>>12651404
>just glorified tugs
A space tug usually doesn't have full life support systems and 38m3 of pressurised space.

>>12651404
TKS was a space station in its own right. It had an airlock even. It’s just that there was this three man capsule at the top (or instrument unit on the last flight). TKS was a space truck but I could see them placing canons on the side I guess right? An actual space weapon was Polyus, which was an unholy spawn of a horribly deformed TKS

Looking at it now, I could see a situation where invading Big G’s have to board a Polyus vehicle which is being defended by cosmonauts with guns

>>12651421
Why the hell did the Sovies send up armed space stations in the first place. Was it just to test systems/act as a deterrent, or were they legit considering the fact that the US might try to raid their stations?

>>12651424
They were tests because they genuinely thought the latter and we did as well

>>12651424
To kill satellites, Almaz 2 fired its cannons in space.
The soviets also developed the IS/Naryad anti-satellite drones.

>>12651424
Tensions were high during the cold war and Soviets were not taking any chances anywhere. Fun fact - Soyuz still fly with loaded handguns to the ISS (intended for ground survival instead of landing in an odd spot)

>>12651424
To test their ability to kill enemy satellites, and also to show that the capability is there. I have no idea why they gave Polyus a manned compartment though but the damn thing could support a crew. Also it had a laser.

>”The laser chosen for the Skif spacecraft was the 1-megawatt carbon dioxide laser, developed for the Beriev A-60 aircraft (an Il-76 flying laboratory with a combat laser).”

>>12651421
>>12651417
>>12651405

Neat, thanks for replies. One last basic bitch question that I could just look up: were certain of the Mir modules pretty-much TKS's, though a bit different? Or was it a totally different animal by that point.

Hop tomorrow?

>>12651444
Every Russian module on Mir was derived from the TKS. Funny enough, a TKS is flying to the ISS this year as a new module.

>>12651444
TKS was the VA (Apollo like return capsule) and FGB. FGB was then developed into the specialised Mir and ISS add on modules.

>>12651451
>Every Russian module on Mir was derived from the TKS.
The Mir Core Module is a DOS module with a docking node, basically Salyut-8.

>>12651451
God I love the Russians so much. Really hope they decide to ally with us for Moon/Mars ventures in the future

>>12651450
Nope. Earliest is Tuesday. Still no FAA approval.

>>12651341
is there a better way to do it?

>>12651464
No, and you're right. I guess it's a good thing that commercial companies are now inspiring entire government agencies that used to be considered juggernauts

>>12651464
Air bags

>>12651465
Even Blue Origin switches to Falcon 9 legs for New Glenn lol

>>12651464
landing on engine bells

>>12651461
Russians are tired of the US regime BS trying to stir a new cold war and their current space program managers have said they are not interested in joining the US in Moon/Mars missions

>>12651464
Boat hull and an outboard motor.

>>12651462
So tomorrow. Its monday in the civilized world

>>12651464
The ultimate goal would be to land it into the launch pad clamps (no legs needed)

>>12651478
it'll be funny if everyone starts copying the tower catch next

>>12651472
Cause they know they wont have budget to do anything worthwhile there when Putin is busy trying to retire without getting assasinated

>>12651475
This board runs on de facto Texas time anon

>>12651469
That’s one of the valid criticisms of the Dynetics ALPACA lander, actually.

>>12651467
What was wrong with the original design?

>>12651484
>CRUUUUUUUUUUNCH

>>12651482
Globohomo wants to get rid of Putin since he's one of like 5 world leaders left who actively resist it

>>12651472
Yeah I know. They left Artemis to work with the Chynease and ESA. I think they are just out of funds, and have extreme salt against the west lol

>>12651488
>OH NO WE SHOULDVE GONE WITH THE NATIONAL TEAM SAVE US AHHHHH

>>12651493
Live look at astronaut attempting to climb down the National Team ladder
https://youtu.be/jdjgGGHk8k4

>>12651493
>national team arrives
>ladder breaks, leaving the team also stranded
>starship comes in and crushes them both

complete fucking RETARD here

So elon's plan is to ditch the legs and catch the booster, the new risk being if you botch a landing you lose the tower, a tower that's more substantial and expensive than normal because it also catches your rocket.

So I thought, what if instead of building something tall, you bore out a hole in the ground. Is there any way to make this work? Explain why I'm completely fucking retarded, for both take off and landing. It's a rhetorical question, it's because I sniffed all the glue.

Also as a side question, if the sea dragon was going to launch from water and it wasn't a problem, are there benefits to launching from a pool?

>>12651522
Also forgot weapons launch from underground, is that just a hardened defense thing or what

>>12651524
ICBMs are supposed to be able to sit on standby for years at a time, so they can't be exposed to the elements, and the underground location also provides a good degree of protection against nearby detonations for both the missile and it's controllers.

>>12651522
It would probably float too much and tip over before it got too far below water (pic related). Although now that I think about it, as long as the top doesn't get dented and you land in a pool (vs salt water) it would be fine? Picrel was relatively intact and had to be blown up by the navy.

>>12651217
dude dont remind me

>>12651142
>if we had technology that breaks all the laws of physics to make space travel easy we wouldn't need to obey the laws of physics and space travel would be easy
damn never thought of it that way

>>12651560
Laws of physics don't exist

>>12651276
Just use RD-190s, in fact use 9 of em per booster. One RD-190 is basically 1/4 an RD-170.

>>12651487
It was a more complex, less inherently strong, overall more shitty design, so I have no idea why they didn't stick with it. None of those things have ever stopped BO from endlessly pursuing a technology before.

>>12651563
and yet, you obey them. curious.

>>12651469
Works in ksp

>>12651580
>I'm a retard and have never studied science past school textbooks

>>12651591
So violate one of the laws of physics, and if you can't why not?

>>12651522
Isostasy forbids this

>>12651591 you (you)

>>12651595
>still doesn't understand science

Retard, "physical laws" are human made and descriptive, not natural and prescriptive.

sounds like a blast

>>12651662
2 based 4 me

>>12651664
>>12651662
in all seriousness though if you could get away with premixed fuel how much of an advantage would it net you? You'd save a little bit of weight from having only 1 tank and less plumbing, but are there perks outside of that?

>>12651669
How would it work with Raptor, assuming it could be stabilized? Would you only need 1 preburner and pump?

>>12651382
We also missed the timeline with nuclear pulse battleships fighting for control of the outer planets and Mars.

>>12651687
We’ll probably miss the timeline with a future for humanity too. Literally in the end times rn

>>12651691
What aren't you excited for technology being leveraged to make Orwell novels look unimaginative?

>>12651691
it's crunch time right now imo. Either we win big or fucking fail.

>>12651462
God fucking dammit

>>12651696
>1984 is not an instruction manual
>Brave New World is not an instruction manual
>Harrison Bergeron is not an instruction manual
>fuck it fine The Expanse is an instruction manual FUCK

>>12651696
Why did I have to be born in such a nightmarish time period? I could have been some deer hunter in 70,000 BC. Goddamnit.

Whatever that app event elon tweeted is, apparently Marc Andreesen is there. He seems somewhat redpilled judging by some of the accounts he follows on twatter - though admittedly he follows thousands - and some of his writings. I wonder if they've had in-depth conversations with each other and what about.

>>12651719
Feels bad. It's the perfect combination of the most servile time in human history combined with the most overwhelming full spectrum control that even the biggest tyrant of ancient times couldnt have ever hoped for thanks to technology

>>12651723
>In 2012, Andreessen expressed some support for Republican candidate Mitt Romney [59] During the 2016 primary season, he endorsed Republican candidate Carly Fiorina, but after Fiorina dropped out of the race, Andreessen switched his endorsement to the Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, citing the Republican nominee Donald Trump's anti-immigration stance.[60][61]
Fuck disregard that I suck cocks

We are gonna go

>>12651753
Ew, what a dork.

Space advancements should give me hope but instead I can't help this unshakeable anxiety, like it'll never get off the ground in my lifetime. Why do I have such a crushing sense of dread? It feels like this is really the only hope for a future, and the only thing to even look forward to anymore. I'm already in my 30's and I feel like I'll just get left behind if it ever even becomes feasible to leave Earth by the time it becomes accessible to non-billionaires. This planet feels like a fucking prison. It was bad enough having all my retard youthful delusions about life and the world shattered when I went to war, but now it just feels like every year is more locked down, claustrophobic, and controlled than the last with literally nowhere left to run. I want to escape. I NEED to escape. This SpaceX bullshit feels like my last hope but it's crushing because I know that hope is childish and naive. At least humans in an older time could be pioneers and run away to start over.

>>12651790
>At least humans in an older time could be pioneers and run away to start over.
Politics is a kludge for not being able to calve off separate tribes when disagreements mount. Humans were meant to be nomads.

>>12651790
War is badass. I hope I get to be in one

>>12651790
You can't 'head for the hills' when all the hills are already owned, all the corners of the map filled in.
I think many of us feel that vague uneasiness, anon. We're all stuck in this atmosphere with 7 billion other assholes and no way out but the permanent one.

>>12651792
>>12651797
Pretty much how I feel. The human spirit just feels completely fucking crushed in this current era of humanity, with no fucking way out.

>>12651794
You can literally go sign up to fight, right now. Do not recommend. Although it can be a great tool for building comradery so long as the fighting isn’t too hard and you’re not in PTSD-inducing scenarios

>>12651797
Yeah I was alluding to that a couple of threads ago with another anon. In our current world there is no where to flee to. America claims to be free, but you can’t own a property and just live off the land. The government owns it. You have to pay taxes on it. There is no such thing as fleeing from society.

>>12651806
>America claims to be free, but you can’t own a property and just live off the land. The government owns it. You have to pay taxes on it. There is no such thing as fleeing from society.
And even so called conservatives balk at banning property taxes despite it being the single escape hatch from clown world. God, I can not wait for the Boomers to fall out of political power.

>>12651804
Combat is a hell of an adrenaline rush, and I'm an adrenaline junkie, so count me in.

>>12651811
If there's ever belters I envy the hell out of them
Live on some nearly invisible Sednoid, even.

>>12651816
In a perverse way this past year or so has been a great service. Everyone already knows what it's like to live trapped in a few cubic meters of usable space and needing special breathing apparatus to step outside. Compared to COVID-19, life on Mars doesn't seem so restrictive.

>>12651818
It's hellish. I live for the open expanse of nature.

>>12651816
Our bodies are held down by gravity but not our souls. Belters will descend from people like us one day.
>>12651822
I'm fine with a suit so long as there's an 'outside', whether it's an open martian desert, the curving horizon of a large asteroid or just the outer hull of a station/ship.

SIEG ZEON

>>12651790
How you gonna wake up dead?

>>12651846
Wanna find out?

>>12651435
That's why the premise of You Only Live Twice worked so well.

all true spacenoids, the time is soon

Do we even need FAA?

>>12651931
they are impossible to remove at this point without throwing rocks

>>12651936
That's why they're so desperate to stop Starship. Once it's operational you can throw rocks.

>>12651441
Shame it was rushed because of politics and general power instability. Really, whenever I look at Soviet space projects, especially so during its last few decades, I'm left imagining how great having had more competition would've changed the past few decades.

>>12651950
Keep in mind by the 80s they were getting crushed by price wars and nearly bankrupting themselves doing what they did in aerospace. They also never developed a local computer industry on par with ours and so would be unable to develop a Falcon 9 clone without market access to western stuff. There was no way for it to end other than how it did once Reagan goaded them into the spending war.

>>12651522
I had this thought as well. Cushion the touch down with water. Surely though it would just blast all the water away

>>12651814
sociopathy is a prerequisite for fun in war.

Chinese rocket didnt fly so good. It was an i-Space Hyperbola-1 rocket.
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1356185362121416705

>iSpace
more like an android

>>12651931
>Federal Aviation Administration
>Spaceflight =/= Aviation

>>12651662
>the propanox gel propellant meme is almost real life

>>12651022
Forgive me for being stupid, but does a TFR mean that they have FAA permission to fly?

>>12651678
Dude, if your fuel is premixed and you try to put it through a preburner, 100% of it burns. Because it's already mixed. Even if you could somehow get around the fact that you're working with a high detonation speed explosive at that point, the only three engine cycles I can think of that would be even close to useful would be pressure fed, combustion tap-off, and tertiary gas generator. If you don't know what those are, AJ-10 is a pressure fed engine, BE-3 is a CTO engine, and the RD-107 and RD-108 that Soyuz uses are both TGG engines (they use a separate supply of H2O2 to generate steam that spins the kerosene and oxygen pumps).

>>12651604
Okay, so you're being pedantic. Can you reverse entropy with a net gain in energy or not?

tony's artwork is fucking kino man

>>12652098
>when you start off your gravity turn too aggressively and shit goes sideways
happens to me at least once with every new launch vehicle design in ksp

>>12652211

No, it just means other airplanes aren't allowed to fly near Boca Chica. The permission for starship to fly is separate. Such is the bureaucracy.

>>12651356
4u

>>12652215
I saw a documentary on reverse entropy. Doesn't seem that hard.

>>12652255
I thought so. So basically there's no confirmation yet that it's flying tomorrow?

Then again I think I read on Ars Technica that there is nowhere on the internet to see if the FAA has given permission or not - the only evidence is when the vehicle flies.

>>12651522
>land directly in the piss-locks
i like it

>>12652274
>Brown pants landing into a yellow splashdown.

>>12651335
>wut if we just copied the F9 starting after they are most of the way through their own replacement program

Why can’t they copy the Starship before it’s too late to matter

>>12652212
Quality post. I was running on fumes last night and didn’t even think of that. I appreciate you not just calling me a retard and explaining how it could work though hahah. Very interesting

HOP WHEN /sfg/
WHEN

>>12652400
tomorrow

>>12652400
On the morrow. Do you think he knows about second hop?

>>12652400
Someday.

>>12651217
>>12651217
What

>>12652400
One day.

>>12651956
>>12651950
It’s insane though how much the Soviet space program accomplished in its final 10 or so years. They built a SECOND heavy lift launcher, built several types of Soyuz, damn near flew men on TKS/FGB, and built an orbital weapons platform. They also built a somewhat better version of the shuttle.

>>12652400
We can just do it tomorrow

>>12652467
Yeah I would argue that Buran BTFO'd Shuttle. Funny that it was built out of fear of the USA's capability, and they ended up building something better, only to cancel it for political reasons

>>12652481
I never understood why the USSR suddenly became a huge threat in the 80’s after seemingly cooling down in the 70’s. Can any history buffs explain it to me?

>>12652488
Middle Eastern proxy wars heating things up

>new neuralink video
>a fucking tranny
Fuck urf. We need to escape this fucking God forsaken rock.

>>12652503
Send all trannies to the Moon, they're going to off themselves even more when all it takes is just unsealing your suit.

>>12652481
About the Buran, which I really like despite being a more beaten up clone of the Congress Shuttle, I remember reading this article some years ago. How much truth is in it? Apparently documentation pertaining this hasn't been declassified yet to my knowledge, but it does seem very plausible and just what would go on between two superpowers with extensive spying networks
>https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna18686550
>With regard to the use of ablative (or adhesive) material in gaps between tiles on some surfaces, a Johnson Spaceflight Center engineer noted, “Soviets have ablative material in their elevon gaps, just like we did. We fooled them and now use tiles in the gaps.” On another page of the analysis, the anonymous engineer noted another disparity was “probably due to their stolen technology freeze in the early ’80s.”
>A NASA source says in fact the tiles were a big problem when the Soviets launched and returned the Buran in November, agreeing they were “cooked.” Is there firm public evidence the Soviets obtained defective tiles? No, but as two officials told NBC News, the United States was handing out early versions of the tiles in the late ‘70s like they were candy

>>12651522
Just catch if off the side of the oil platform. If it fails, it just falls into the sea and doesn't destroy your entire infrastructure.

>>12652516
>the United States was handing out early versions of the tiles in the late ‘70s like they were candy
Devilish.

>>12652488
You had a shift within the foreign policy executive of the United States, shifting from the architects of Détente and realists like Kissinger to those who populated and circulated around Team B, an sub-group within the CIA who argued that the Soviets were not to be trusted and were building all new types of weapon systems. Funnily enough, they managed to ignore real systems like Perimeter (though that came about more into the 80s) and BioPreparat. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was the death-knell of Détente, despite the evidence that the Soviet leadership did not want to go into Afghanistan but instead felt compelled due to multiple factors (having an unstable country on your border and also having it potentially becoming a proxy state for America just two of these).

F

>>12652544

>>12652547
"We" couldn't have "prevented this", because it was the Space Industrial Complex that wouldn't even listen to the engineers who said don't stack the crew vehicle on the side, SRBs are shit, don't launch in the cold, don't use crumbly CFC-free foam on the external tank, tiles are shit, let's check the bottom of the shuttle. Okay, they could have also said hydrolox a shit, but that wouldn't have mattered either.
Don't shift the blame to the powerless.

>>12651852

oh gun-poster, you always make me laugh

>>12652544
Bet they were all dem voters

>>12652555
Checked and I think it's trying to imply that the astronaut is mad at the beaurocracy of NASA. But I mean you shouldn't read too deep into it, Apollo happened before the shuttle disasters

>>12652503
>Trannies go to mars
>Neuralink is used to cure them since jews can't jew mars up
>their fw

>>12652581
>Neuralink is used to control everyone’s brain and turn them into slaves of globohomo
>World becomes worse than 1984 due to the advance of technology
>Hopefully aliens kill us all

>>12652581
>>12652588
Neurallink has to be some kind of trap, right? No way I want electric anything put in or on my head. It's the one thing Elon's doing that makes me question his goals, everything else is Mars related and pretty grounded but then he's also like "yeah talk to computers with your mind, it'll be fine".
I'll happily be that cantankerous old person clinging to their antique keyboard.

>>12652591
Option 1: He wants to become an immortal machine god
Option 2: He wants to turn everyone into brain slaves
Option 3: Both

>>12652561
What is wrong with you?

>>12652544
>Killing the first israeli to go to space

"Space Shuttle"? More like BASED Shuttle!

>>12652595
There is no option 4 with dystopian creepy “transhuman” technology like this btw

Launch today?

>>12652609
Tomorrow I believe

>>12652601
Fuck off Mohammed

>>12652616
you don't need to be muslim to dislike israel

>>12652627
go fuck a goat

>>12652616
>>12652632

>>12652634
>Three big OldSpace companies coming together to make an expendable lander
>Also supported by Blue Urine

>>12652591
I do like that Elon isn't hiding anything. He's just like "here, talk to machines, that's what neuralink is", he doesn't deviously hide its intentions. And I feel that he's not gonna make it mandatory.

>>12652644
> Blue Origin won a US$579 million contract from NASA for a 10-month design concept study to be completed in 2020-2021.

So they’ll claim the schedule is too aggressive while spending a billion dollars on “conceptual studies” for a whole year

>>12652645
Why the fuck you want to “talk” to a machine?

>>12652400
When the omens are favorable

>>12652656
Because at some point, inevitably, the machines will surpass us and depreciate humanity. The only way to avoid that is to merge with them. That's the point.

>>12652656
Why not?

>>12652627
Fuck you

>>12652591
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4uwaw_5Q3I&ab_channel=RatioBG

>>12652669
Says the guy who wrote vampires in space

>>12652659
>Because at some point, inevitably, the machines will surpass us and depreciate humanity
That’s your religious belief; the central tenant of singularitism, based on no evidence.

> The only way to avoid that is to merge with them.

We can simply never create imaginary super “machines” instead. It’d be fucking retarded to make a competitor.

>>12652661
It’s a machine, not a person. Computers have nothing interesting to say; they have no feelings, no emotions, no consciousness, nothing, just data they can shit out. The only reason you could ever want to be connected to a “machine” is if you want another human to use the machine to mind control you

>>12652656
You're already "talking" with machines through your keyboard.

>>12652632
Go eat a bag of foreskin chips. >>12652679
This. AI can only come to if you program it to.

>>12652675
it's not hard to compare AGI today to 10 years ago and extrapolate where it's going. It would be a baseless religious belief to suggest that there's some imaginary ceiling (ie the soul) which AGI cannot break through.

>>12652683
No, I’m using my senses as an intermediate to use a machine as an intermediate to interact with another human using their senses as an intermediate. The machine in the interaction is a slave, present only to facilitate the interaction, and being no more significant than an old telephone in that sense. If I no longer wish to use the machine as an intermediate, I simply walk away, or turn it off. Good luck walking away from a machine implanted in your fucking skull by some corporation.

>>12652669
I thought about this the other day

I think we just don't accept ants as conscious because they're so easy to accidentally kill and necessary to kill in droves just to get some god damned peace in your own house. Also they are amazingly organized but we categorize that as mechanical or programmed behavior, meanwhile a dog can be completely retarded and capable of nothing, but we are highly sympathetic to them because they're social.

Anyway as I was saying, what are the practical applications of ants in space?

>>12652688
>It’s five degrees hotter than yesterday so it’ll be 100 degrees hotter in 19 days

>>12652591
It just needs good security, just don't put anything in your brain that isn't open source and audited

>>1265268
On the Internet, nobody knows you're an advanced forum-roving chatbot.

>>12652696
I don’t accept ants as conscious because they aren’t human and exhibit zero evidence of being conscious.

>>12652595
>>12652603
Option 4 is Elon believes the man/machine merge is inevitable and wants to control it on his terms before the kikes or machines do on their terms.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmarkman/2019/08/30/elon-musks-neuralink-is-sci-fi-made-real/

>Musk believes the answer is an implant designed to use the full capacity of our brains. In his view, it would eliminate the threat of AIs taking over, since we would merge with them.

>>12652708
>Prevent humans being replaced by machines by replacing humans with machines

>>12652702
imagine posting this lmao
what a dumb response

>>12652712
>I don’t understand the idea that projecting past trends into the future is inherently fallacious

As a percentage, what is the actual chance that the SN9 hop will be tomorrow?

>>12652720
50%

>>12652715
>the entire field of statistics is fake
can you unironically kys yourself and provide some evidence that AGI will plateau or go back down somehow other than attempting to debunk the entire mathematical field of statistical analysis

>>12652731
>can you unironically kys yourself and provide some evidence that AGI will plateau

I never actually said it would. I only said it lacked evidence. If you’re claiming AGI is possible, you need to prove that.

>>12652706
What is evidence of consciousness

>>12652679
Bro I'm not trying to talk to a machine to befriend it or marry it. I think it's a great way to make society more efficient. Being able to directly interface with a computer would allow us to do so much more than we are currently capable of. Though I should clarify that, like the internet or smartphones, this tech should not be available to the common person. Only smart people with functioning brains should be allowed to interface with machines.

>>12652757
>Though I should clarify that, like the internet or smartphones, this tech should not be available to the common person. Only smart people with functioning brains should be allowed to interface with machines.
Agreed. I think the risk of cyberzombies / Matrix pods comes from NPCs not having enough native brainpower/willpower to resist the whisper of the machine.

>>12652757
>chipping people to make society more “efficient”
What an inhuman mindset.

>>12652743
Acting like a human.

THE SUPER HEAVY SERIAL NUMBER ONE

>>12651797
I think that just the possibility of fucking off to another, not yet owned land, would be great for humanity in general, even if it's just a ridiculous fraction of people actually moving there.

>>12652774
A big grain silo.

>>12652770
This

When I see paint on my face in the mirror I keep it on

>>12652774
STACK WHEN

>>12652706
>>12652770
>>12652781
Animals have consciousness too

Which means ants could do as well

>>12652774
He's a big guy

>>12652801
>Animals have consciousness too
Faith-based belief

>>12652801
>Animals have consciousness too
Anything that can't self-identify in a mirror or use an equivalent technique for its primary sense can't be said to be conscious. This includes black children under the age of five.

>>12652814
Mirror test doesn’t even mean anything

>>12652819
t. failed it

>>12652806
>>12652814
Animals absolutely have consciousness:
>the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.
Animals are absolutely aware of, and responsive to, their surroundings.

>>12652774
imagine cleaning every square inch of the inside of that thing for oxygen service

>>12652825
Yeah so are TF2 bots. I guess there's souls trapped in my PC

>>12652830
Don't talk like that on a blue board anon

>>12652591
We're decades away though surely? I was expecting something earth shattering from that last demo but it seemed like more of a recruitment seminar for very early stage tech than anything else - reassuringly deeply underwhelming

>>12652833
Okay maybe that definition is insufficient, but still, animals definitely do have consciousness just like humans do. You can see it in them. They're living things, they're aware of their surroundings, and they react to their surroundings. They clearly have emotions like aggression, fear, timidness, sexual arousal, social bonding, stuff like that.

AI is an off-topic meme technology, so bring it back on topic. What about remote-control operation of worker robots on the Martian surface by humans in orbit?

>>12652481
what specifically was better about the buran than the shuttle?

>>12652861
Remote control at orbital distances being fake and gay is the entire reason the ISS still has astronauts on it.

Can't humans not get pregnant in space? Wouldn't that put a damper on the whole leaving Earth behind thing?

>>12652743
Possessing theory of mind, being able to recognize yourself, being able to plan for the future and expect different outcomes far into the future, being able to not only remember past experiences but being able to connect those experiences with other concepts experienced in your life to formulate ideas beyond "oh that electric fence shocked me so I shouldn't go near it". Humans exhibit all of these. Other animals like dolphins and elephants might also experience all of these but I don't think we will ever know without being able to directly interface with them.

>>12652881
I wouldn't mind "directly interfacing" with a dolphin if you know what I mean

https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1356290209667837961
>Now hearing the FAA could approve the SpaceX modification to its license for SN9 as early as today, possibly "within the next couple of hours." Could see Starship fly as soon as tomorrow.

>>12652868
It was the full Energia system, not just the Buran orbiter in isolation, that was better.
>Kerolox everything instead of hydrolox+solids meant better performance.
>putting the main engines on the tank instead of the orbiter made it easier to switch to vertical stacking for a beyond-LEO upper stage without needing to put a kickstage in the orbiter's payload bay.
>It also made it easier to swap out the orbiter for other side-hanger payloads like the giant LEO laser platforms they were developing.
>The all-kerolox design also meant no SRB rattle and a much less fragile central tank with no fucking foam, removing the Challenger and Columbia failure modes while allowing generally easier aborts.
Really all they needed to do was replace Buran's orbital thrusters with something not wildly toxic/carcinogenic and fix the TPS tiles and it'd STILL be a reasonable design today.

>>12652868
Autonomous landing capability, no SRB's, the ability to adapt the core components into other types of launch vehicles, plans for almost full reusability in an era before propulsive landing and done in a much smarter way than "hurr let's parachute these SRB's to the ocean and watch as they get extremely damaged from the impact and salt water", the orbiter itself did not have engines so you weren't carrying dead weight

>>12652895

feel like pure shit just want it back

>>12652774
Super heavy BN1 is almost done right?

>>12652861
>AI is an off-topic meme technology
It's on-topic for this board. Maybe not for this thread, but for this board.

>>12651669
Methane freezes in LOX temperature Musk is talking about mixing of gasses that just explode in a chaotic way.There is no advantage in having propellant premixed as you cant run turbines or controll the mixture ratio so your engine burns also various boiling and vapour pressure will cause problems with cavitation and create a gas methane LOX foam.ffs read sutton

>>12652910
Looks about half done.

>>12652910
There's still a lot left to be stacked, but it seems like the top priority in the yard, so I think it'll be stacked this month.

>>12652915
Hmmm what about pre-mixed tripropellant with lithium, fluorine, and metallic hydrogen

>>12652910
No, there's so much to do with the gridfins aft

Seems like they have to build legs for the boosters until a catcher tower is built, or can they just crash land the first few because the engine count is low and they may not fly twice anyway?

>>12652926
I’m pretty sure the landing tower thing was a meme by Elon I mean he even retweeted a render which showed Superheavy using legs

>>12652895
Not to mention how the Buran could fly itself unlike the Shuttle, and also was originally planned to have twin jets placed at the rear so it could land wherever it wanted rather than glide.

>>12652910
Were SN12, SN13 and SN14 ever even real?

>>12652935
Yep

>>12652935
Yeah, they had some hardware put together.

>>12652924

I second this proposal

>>12652933
No it's real, it's also an amazing idea. You lose the weight of the legs and shock absorbtion, the cost of those is moved to the tower instead of every rocket you build, shock absortion is built in the tower so it can be super hefty and the landings can be much softer. Also the rocket's engines don't have to get close the ground where they get burnt up on landing.

>>12652924
>fucking dies

>>12652910
>Super heavy BN1 is almost done right?
End of the week probably

>>12652940
SLS BTFO'd. Unironically.

I HOPE IT'S FUCKING TRUE

>>12652959
Yesss

>>12652915
>LOX foam
Two words that I never knew how much they would freak me the fuck out when put together.
>>12652400
SN10 static fire when?

>>12652949
Hang on - how will super heavy land on Mars without legs?

>>12652967
...think anon. Think.

>>12652967
Super Heavy isn't going to Mars. It's the first stage.

>>12652970

>>12652967
the sketch artist crewmember draws them on right before landing

Does Mars even have enough methane/oxygen to fuel up a fleet of Starships?

>>12652976
Ah, when cartoons weren't all weird Cal-Arts degeneracy.

>>12652959
Can’t they get something sorted out so that they don’t have to go through this process every time they need to test a prototype.

>>12652988
Oxygen is found in almost every mineral there. Methane can be synthesized. Plenty of Carbon from the CO2 atmosphere and hydrogen isn't too hard to obtain if you can find water / water ice

>>12652997
Apparently they made changes but said changes take 3 months to enter effect

>>12652940
>unlucky 13
>aborted

>>12652997
New streamlined FAA regulations go into effect in March.

>>12653001
Yeah they went into effect in January but it takes 90 days for Lord knows what reason. The government is incapable of implementing next-day changes

>>12652970
>>12652973
>>12652982
I've had my fun now heh.

On a more slightly more serious note, how many strap-on SHs would it take to get a fully fuelled SS to orbit?

>>12653029
You'd probably only need one. But for balance reasons you would go with two

>>12653029

>>12653019
Now someone needs to make an "aborted Starship" meme.

>>12652814
Some animals can.

>>12653027
>The government is incapable of implementing next-day changes
This is normally considered a safety feature. Elon is rare in doing GOOD things that benefit from fast government turnaround.

>>12652933
Of course landing legs will be required at first, but I think eventually they'll go for it.

>>12653029
>>12653034
When

>>12653065
That might actually get Starship to orbit with enough remaining fuel for a direct Mars ascent.

>>12652926
The first Superheavy doesn't really need gridfins does it? It'll be like SN5/6.

Hop today?

>>12653068
3.8 km/s to Mars. 1 km/s EDL. 4.1 km/s ascent. 3 km/s departure. 0.5 km/s Earth EDL.

>>12653081
Elon has indicated he wants ~4mo transfers with fully-fueled-in-LEO Starships so it's not a pure Hohmann.

>>12653076
Is there a point to doing a low altitude test for a booster? I would think it would handle similarly enough to starship itself

>>12653101
Well it might be kind of difficult to do any huge flights with them until they have a launchpad capable of surviving 28 raptors firing, and I don't think they can stack Starship on it yet either.

>>12653101
Still have to hop and test boost back and what not

>>12653081
>>12653084
~6km/s for the "miss it and next stop: Europa" orbit. But it does get you there really damn fast so you won't be spending two years in space doing gravity assists...

>>12652686
NO U

>>12653154
Can I get a quick rundown?

>>12652933
imagine reading this much into elon's twitter behavior

>>12653154
>*KLSSHHSHHK*
>"Hey uh... Jeb"
>"this is Kouston speaking"
>"we just uh.. noticed a slight oversight in your flea booster"

>"go ahead Kouston"

>"we may have had to ditch the parachutes to fit another goo unit onboard..."
>*KSKHHHHKS*

>"Jeb?"
>"... Jeb?

Are there any plans for artificial gravity on Starship?

>>12653166
IRAM, improvised rocket-assisted munition
They were pretty common from the rebel side in the Syrian Civil war, back when they were able to put together their own munitions, even if most of them were just Grad rocket boosters with a 55 gallon drum on the end.

>>12653176
Based. Civil wars are awesome

>>12653173
No.

>>12653154
Outcome: Catastrophic Failure!
Flight Events:
[00:00:00]: Liftoff!
[00:00:09]: Sepratron I crashed into Kerbin
[00:00:09]: Moosha el-Jafari was killed
[00:00:09]: Salmaan al-Sattar was killed
[00:00:09]: Nizaam Saah was killed
[00:00:09]: Fat'hi el-Akbari was killed
[00:00:09]: Adham al-Mahdavi was killed
[00:00:09]: Masood Zaher was killed
[00:00:09]: Rushdi Vaziri was killed
[00:00:09]: Raashid Hakim was killed
[00:00:09]: Mubashshir al-Salehi was killed
[00:00:09]: Abdul Kareem al-Hamid was killed

>>12652959
Q2 2021, sorry kids

>>12653173
yeah, they're whipping together some anti-gravity generators out in the Boca Chica dirt fields.

(((They))) are coming for spaceflight. I knew spaceflight was going to be cancelled as soon as biden got elected.

>>12652208
>propanox gel propellant

>>12653232
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/01/spacex-vs-doj-judge-signals-it-will-be-tough-to-block-probe-subpoena.html

forgot link

>>12653154
No waaaay. Was that IRAM meant to go further? Or were they targeting that mosque muezzin or whatever
>>12653205
Hahahahahahah

>>12652774
are they really going to just vertically transport that thing down the road? It's so fuckhuge I start to worry about winds a bit

>>12653173
No, it's not set up correctly for spin and isn't a magic torch drive so it's not under thrust the whole way.

>>12653232
Meme. SpaceX is prohibited from hiring foreigners, so it'll get tossed out.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a23080/spacex-elon-musk-itar/

>>12653232
the absolute worst case scenario of this is just paying somebody some settlement money. The only way it would impact SpaceX's operations in any way is if Elon is forced to spend time talking to some DoJ agents that takes away from Starship development, but it's not like he's in Boca Chica developing Starship 24/7 anyway.

>>12653232
This is what the redditors voted for

>>12653248
Nope
Now they are going on a fishing expedition
Any hiring rates that vary from the demographics of the areas surrounding their businesses is discriminatory under the law

>>12653254
Under California law or US law specifically?

>>12653254
That makes zero fucking sense because of ITAR.

>>12653254
It’s illegal for an ITAR-subject corporation to hire foreigners.

I would love to be a spacex lawyer. You’re either suing oldspace and NASA for shady contracts like the early days of spacex, or you’re defending stupid little california lawsuits because you don’t have enough foreign employees even though you’re subject to ITAR. The judge will take one look at this and throw it out

>>12653274
Thank god Elon realizes what a shithole California is and started changing base of operations years ago

>>12653274
Probably has more to do with "you don't have enough Americans of color" than "you don't have any foreigners". But I highly doubt SpaceX actively discriminates in their hiring. This is just cope-induced California politics

>>12653276
"Americans of color" have lower average IQs, so I'd expect to see less of them in smart people jobs.

>>12653276
>you don't have enough Americans of color
Probably not even that, I remember a talk by Shotwell that basically said that their workforce is composed women/minorities at a slightly higher rate than the current breakdown of college graduates.

>>12653254
Couldn't they just pass the buck and say their hiring practices are symptomatic of discrimination within the education system? Honestly how does any discrimination suit go through if the ultimate culpability is always on the federal government for failing to uphold its constitutional duty?

>phobos... home.

>>12653284
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE NIGGERS NOT THE HECKIN GOOD SUBHUMANRINOS

>>12653205
what about Abu Hajaar? Is he safe? Is he alright?

>>12653291
What the hell are they getting sued for then? For not being liberal enough?

>>12653264
>>12653268
If this were the 1700s anyone trying to enforce contradictory laws would have been shot on arrival.

>>12653299
It seems, in your premature gravity turn, you killed him

>>12653300
They're getting used for not talking someone who could provide citizenship, the reason the DOJ is at them is because they didn't play nice with the bureaucracy. Believe they've refused to provide paperwork two different times now.

>>12653299
He ejected at the last second and bounced off his head, saving his life

>>12653306
Wait so someone couldn't prove citizenship so they didn't hire? Or someone DID provide proof of it and they didn't hire anyway?
Either way I feel like it doesn't fucking matter. Is spacex obligated to hire every asshole who submits a résumé? No. They aren't. I hate california so much

>>12653301
Didn't Elon say that it should be harder to establish laws than it is to abolish them? Maybe this 18th century thinking might find a resurgence on Mars.

>>12653268
Not every aspect of SpaceX is covered in ITAR and it’s discriminatory to require every employee to be a citizen

>>12653330
Shut the fuck up dude, a company should be able to hire anyone it damn well pleases.

>>12653315
it's probably more that they weren't a citizen, but said they were willing to pursue citizenship and SpaceX ghosted them.

>>12653315
Someone refused to show citizenship so they ignored him, he filed some sort of complaint, and now the DOJ is subpoening all hiring documentation so they can nitpick through and prepare a lawsuit

>>12653315
Here is the full sequence of events

>Fabian Hutter applies to "a position" at spaceX and is denied
>Fabian Hutter creates discrimination suit against SpaceX, which includes a subpoena for hiring documents and employees records
>SpaceX says that would take to long, so no.
>DOJ comes in to investigate if SpaceX's denial of the subpoena is valid, which it does not seem to be based on a previous similar case

So there are two court cases each trying to determine different things
>Did spaceX discriminate based on citizenship
>Was SpaceX's denail of the subpoena valid

And for people saying ITAR, ITAR only applies to people having access to the U.S. Munitions List, and does not blanketly apply to all jobs at SpaceX.

>>12653329
mars will be what the US, was to the old european world. Once global hegemony breaks. We return to more balanced politics.

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-promoting-small-modular-reactors-national-defense-space-exploration/

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/536634-will-biden-continue-nasas-artemis-program-to-return-to-the-moon?fbclid=IwAR3bqy8LJ24b776wBHx7SCobMJL34z1fEbXsLjOVfGbqs3tDGEgjhPyIKaY
>However, it should be noted that, at least of this writing, Biden has not countermanded any of the executive orders that Trump signed concerning space. Since Biden has been quite prolific in reversing a whole slew of Trump policies related to immigration, energy and other areas, this apparent oversight could be seen as encouraging.

Some small bit of hopium lads

>>12653353
Let's go Joe. Tbh it would be based if he threw in full support for Artemis and outright said that any lobbying against human spaceflight is unamerican lol

>>12653359
>Biden can use the Artemis program as a way to foster the sense of unity that he mentioned in his inaugural address. Marcia Smith notes that the new chair of the House appropriations subcommittee that funds NASA, Rep. Matt Cartwright (D-Penn.) is a warm supporter of Artemis, as is that subcommittee’s ranking member, Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-Ala.), illustrating the bipartisan support the program enjoys.

More hopium

>>12653351
This kind of stuff happens at companies all the time. It's not a big deal and won't do anything more then a possible fine for SpaceX.
The right wing loonies here will claim it's the jews forcing SpaceX to hire black people to ruin their workforce, or whatever crack pot theory they've come up with today. Just don't let their crazy ravings make you lose sight of what's really going on.

>>12653353
Wait did biden snipe small modular reactors, that was actually important

>>12653363
Sorry I deleted it because I felt bad for wishing him to lose all his money. But I agree with your point. The conspiracies are dumb. But if this dude is just trying to cheat the system for money then SpaceX needs to be (hopefully) protected by the law and not forced to hand over money

>>12653347
We can only hope, because this current global homogany is seriously shit.

>>12653367
he didn't https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/14/2021-01013/promoting-small-modular-reactors-for-national-defense-and-space-exploration

>>12653373
I'm confident SpaceX's lawyers are capable of smelling out any BS, or mitigating impact if they did actually do something wrong.

>>12653367
Idk if this will make you feel better, but my gut feeling tells me that Musk would have an easier time meeting with Joe Biden and convincing him to allow the use of nuclear reactors on Mars for his private company than he would have with trying to meet and discuss this with Donald Trump. Idk Biden feels more easily "manipulatable" lmao

>>12653387
>...and that's why nuclear reactors on mars would end white supremacy and absolve you of any guilt you have from being a pro-segregation lawmaker

rogue state when

>>12653353
At this point I'm pretty confident that Biden won't cancel Artemis. Every single person I've seen across the political spectrum who has commented on it has asked him not to cancel it, as well as the large number of foreign governments involved who have begun to invest heavily assuming that it's moving forward. He will, most likely, push the 2024 landing back, but who cares as long as all the programs are still funded.

>>12653363
>This kind of stuff happens at companies all the time.
This kind of stuff is completely superflous bullshit that takes away resources from companies for no reason. Why shouldn't a company be able to just hire whoever it wants?

>>12653305
Glad someone else got the reference, you beat me to it.

>>12653397
Because when there was absolutely no regulations on hiring it was causing a bunch of bigger issues for everyone as a whole. The current bunch of regulations aren't great, but they did solve real problems caused by discriminatory hiring practices.

>>12653394
2024 was unrealistic anyways and Congress nipped it in the bud by not fully funding HLS but Based Jim did the best he could under the circumstances

>>12653397
>Why shouldn't a company be able to just hire whoever it wants?
Because in American, we believe every individual has the right to the pursuit of happiness, and do not allow companies to deny that right.

>>12653394
the first woman on the moon angle seems to have worked on leftys

>>12653397
Limited regulation is very good, but no regulation is very, very bad.

>>12653415
https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecrews/2021/01/26/biden-repudiates-trump-era-with-revocation-of-certain-executive-orders-concerning-federal-regulation/?sh=21e825bc12b4

you get regulated!

and you get regulated

regulations for you and you and you

regulations for everyone!!!

>>12653415

Private regulation is good

>>12653408
racism was causing a bunch of bigger issues, what use are the regulations now in the age of woke capitalism

>>12653423
based, go get em joe

>>12653408
>it was causing a bunch of bigger issues for everyone as a whole.
Such as?

>>12653410
The pursuit of happiness doesn't guarantee a job, certrainly not a specific job at the specific company. Also, seeing as corporations in the US are legal persons, this would apply to them also.

>>12653415
And over regulation is super duper extra bad, especially if it's agenda driven.

>>12653435
this is going from limited regulations under trump, to full blown regulation mania now

>>12653436
>The pursuit of happiness doesn't guarantee a job, certrainly not a specific job at the specific company.
It guarantees an equal opportunity for employment. Which is what the regulations protect. You don't really think regulations require companies to hire certain people right?

>>12652872
humans are currently forbidden from getting pregnant in space

conception will work in microgravity
we don't know if pregnancy will work in microgravity (but it probably will)
growing up in microgravity won't work, just like living in microgravity as an adult doesn't (but just spin them lmao or live on a rock like sane people)

the solution to all of this is to live on a planetary surface

>>12653394
Even if it isn’t cancelled I feel pretty confident in saying that it definitely won’t be by 2024 and in all likelihood spacex will land on Mars before nasa gets back to the moon.

>>12653443
People have unequal skill. Demanding proportional representation ensures subpar results.

>>12653431
Because we are still trying to correct all the problems caused by the absolute autism of the 50s. All the housing bullshit the feds pulled annihilated the growing generational wealth of the African American community, we are still feeling the aftershocks of that stunted wealth growth to this day.

>>12653436
I mean anyone whose actually been applying for jobs knows that the best track for getting a job is through a personal connection or some kind of network lead to give them an in to a company. There's nothing wrong with that on its own, the problem was due to all the segregrationist bullshit that was pulled during the 20th century, we didn't have a lot of overlap between IN-peoples networks and the new rising group of people who had the talent to get in. So people who would be qualified were getting shoved out of the way for people within the In Network. Now this isnt to say that those people had a moral failings, its just that due to how things had been setup prior it was exceedingly difficult to break into an industry. So the Feds stepped in to try and make the scales a little more balanced which has done a little good, but created it own problems.

>>12653443
>You don't really think regulations require companies to hire certain people right?
It does, with quotas. Not saying if it's a good or bad thing - but I am saying that's exactly what regulations do. Different anon btw

>>12653443
regulations can't guarantee equal opportunity unless someone incriminates themselves. They can only guarantree equitable opportunity because all you can do is measure the demographics of employees and assume racism.

And equity is the most bullshit moral value of our time and absolutely will hold us back from results

>>12653436
>The pursuit of happiness doesn't guarantee a job, certrainly not a specific job at the specific company.
A discriminatory corporation has illegal power over individuals when they get to dictate what job that person can have. It's not about being guaranteed a job, it's about the power of a corporation over the free social and economic movement of an individual; a power they should not have.

>>12653448
>Demanding proportional representation ensures subpar results.
Again, you don't really think regulations require companies to hire certain people right?

There is no regulation that requires US companies to hire some proportion of certain races, they are only required to not discriminate against them during the hiring process and employment.

>>12653454
There are absolutely no "quotas" in employment regulations. Congrats, you contracted the brainrot from online retards

>Companies that employ 50 or more workers and have contracts with the federal government worth $50,000 or more are required to have written affirmative action plans. Executive Order 11246 is the federal law that mandates affirmative action practices for federal contractors. The U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs enforces the order.
>There exists a misconception that contractors are required to meet hiring quotas based on race. In reality, employers that must adhere to the order are required to develop outreach methods that reach a diverse applicant pool. They're not required to meet quotas based on race or any other non-job-related factors.

Iran just announced yet another entrant in their launch fleet. Zoljanah replaces the first stage of the Safir with a beefy solid motor. (At this point, I think they have as many launch vehicles as successful launches.)

>>12653449
>segregationist bullshit

Lol
An actual card carrying libtard
The real is that the AA’s didn’t have the IQ to get into these careers or jobs which is why standards were obliterated

>>12653464
>affirmative action

>>12653330
Discriminating against illegal vermin is good.

>>12653469
See >>12653473

>>12653464
>Again, you don't really think regulations require companies to hire certain people right?
The laws, regulations, and court precedents set up an environment where NOT hiring those people regardless of skill opens you up to expensive, invasive lawsuits and harassment by federal law enforcement, yes. People like you need to be rendered down into rocket fuels.

>>12653408
>The current bunch of regulations aren't great, but they did solve real problems caused by discriminatory hiring practices.

Kill anyone who isn’t white. Problem solved

>>12653469
>your location is 25% black
>your business has no blacks

Ergo
You are discriminating

>>12653473
>>12653481
>There exists a misconception that contractors are required to meet hiring quotas based on race. In reality, employers that must adhere to the order are required to develop outreach methods that reach a diverse applicant pool. They're not required to meet quotas based on race or any other non-job-related factors.

>They're not required to meet quotas based on race or any other non-job-related factors.


>The laws, regulations, and court precedents set up an environment where NOT hiring those people regardless of skill opens you up to expensive, invasive lawsuits and harassment by federal law enforcement
No way.... discriminating against people leaves you open to discrimination law suits???? Wow anon did you figure that out all on your own!??

>>12653485
Good. They’re retards

>>12653484
Epic reddit edgelord
>>12653393
Extremely cool

>>12653469
>are required to have written affirmative action plans.
>In reality, employers that must adhere to the order are required to develop outreach methods that reach a diverse applicant pool.

How vague is the law on this? How does this help anyone? They do the outreach, less of racial group X is qualified, they don't get hired. Same result, waste of resources.

>>12653494
You can read all about it yourself here
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ofccp/executive-order-11246/ca-11246

>>12653449
>real liberal on 4Chan

Wow, look at it!

>>12653485
Your business isn’t burger flipping and requires certain skills, but unfortunately every nog in the area lacks those skills so none of them get hired despite their significant population.

What then?

>>12653471
>An actual card carrying libtard
Damn fucking straight. I do think your current sentiments are based on mistaking raw intelligence with the proper nurturing of human talent. In general I think all groups have on average the same amount of talent, but how that talent is nurtured can vary wildly based on culture, economic factors, and institutions. Right now the systems to foster and nurture talent within some sub-groups fucking suck which why they lag behind. Small little regulations and investments are one of the easy ways we can implement corrective measures to help certain groups make better use of their human talent.

>>12653484
Don't act like such a middle schooler.

>>12653501
Then you have to invent makework positions for them and hope none of them ever file complaints

>>12653501
Then if/when a discrimination suit arises, you provide them your interview history with reasons why the plantiff(s) were denied. Any competent company keeps this stuff on record.

>>12653487
>caught you discriminating based on lack of skills, bigot

>>12653443
No it doesn't, the US constitution wasn't written with positive rights in mind, but rather restrictions on what the government can impose, which is directly contrary to what this is doing.

>>12653443
>You don't really think regulations require companies to hire certain people right?
In my country, they do just that in the form of quotas.

>>12653462
A "discriminatory" corporation absolutely doesn't have that power. Just because Corporation A isn't hiring you, doesn't mean Corp B can't.

>It's not about being guaranteed a job, it's about the power of a corporation over the free social and economic movement of an individual
You can flip this argument around and say that it gives an individual power over the free social and economic movement of a corporation, which is just as much of an individual.

>>12653502
>An actual card carrying libtard
>Damn fucking straight.
You're alright jack

>>12653502
>Don't act like such a middle schooler
Don’t act like such a negroid apologist. Their subspecies is objectively less intelligent and belongs elsewhere amongst their own kind, not in the same nation as whites. Racial diversity demonstrably reduces social cohesion and is therefore undesirable for any society, on Earth or Mars

>>12653330
uh, why does that matter? Why can't "eligible for ITAR" be a requirement because it's a company moving fast and if your job suddenly becomes ITAR they can't be stuck replacing you or if you get promoted you may end up in ITAR positions. I mean hell, even the HR people who will never look at a technical document at my boomer engineering firm all have ITAR clearance

>>12653517
>No it doesn't
Constitutional lawyers agree with me, I think I'll trust them over your opinions, thanks.
>In my country, they do just that in the form of quotas.
We aren't in your country and neither is SpaceX, so I don't really care.

Why are you even trying to tell me, a US citizen what my constitution means when you don't even live here?