/sci/ - Science & Math

Isn't the main argument against it is that the poor people can't afford it therefor nobody should have access to it?

>>12605800
The costs for it wouldn`t be that high though. CRISPR cut the costs down to a thousand. A middle-class income could easily afford it, and even the goverment might choose to install a public healthcare that ensures that all children can be modified to be as healthy, fit and smart as possible. They would save a lot of taxes.

>>12605894
It's also important to prevent reverse Flynn effect.

>>12605894
Would the public line up if it meant that we could make bodies fight cancer?

>>12605985
The vast majority of the people would agree to cure genetic diseases. Unofficially more than half of the people would also be willing to utilize genetic modification to prevent diseases like cancer, alzheimer or heart problems. Enhancements are less popular.

>>12605022
Enjoy becoming a genetically enslaved underclass with a hardwired kill switch.

>>12605022
the moment enhancement becomes possible some people will do it, then almost everyone will want to do it in order to compete (even if they would otherwise be opposed to it).

It will end racism as everyone will make their kids white

>>12605022
People will become better
But not everyone will be able to become better
They proceed to chimp
Basically the same thing since the luddits

>>12606410
fuck, luddites

>>12606117
Not a utopia nor a dystopia awaits us but new complexities, new potentials and new conflicts. Augmentations mostly won't be developed in black programs but will either be byproduct of medical research and follow in its application the supply/demand rule of all emerging technologies.
The biggest issue with human augmentation is the growing gap between the rich and poor. Coupled with automatization your common baseline will not be able to compete with augmented rich or get access to the necessary enhancements. That's why I see a need to establish a Universal Health Care System that does not just seeks to treat people but to enable and enhance them. A society will benefit immensely if its children will all be born healthy, fit and smart and if it lets no potential go wasted by enabling anyone to have access to good cybernetic and nanotechnological treatments. In developed nations this might work out, but then the already existing gap between rich and poor countries will grow even larger. In 100 years a common european or Japanese/korean will differ fundamentally from anyone that grow up in a third world.
Just like the computer, cars or penicillin at first the rich will be the users, but the rules of demand/supply will enable anyone to get augmentations.

>>12605022
I just want some qt cat girls.

>>12606117
>Enjoy becoming a genetically enslaved underclass with a hardwired kill switch.

>Implying the actual underclasses aren't already the result of quasi selective mating and breeding.

>>12606521
I was written out of the script long ago. I can no more have a role in some new world than I can this one. So, it doesn't matter, even if I did think man was competent enough to pull it off after the globalists failed to keep everything under control.

>>12606695
No such implication was made.

>>12605022
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Azuhmier/hmofa/master/archive_7/sFyP1jQW

but really unironically actually read it

>>12606521
>baseline
t. Beter wadds
:DDDDDDDDDD

>>12607029
The term baseline human is older than 2006.

>>12606695
>Enjoy becoming a genetically enslaved underclass with a hardwired kill switch
How.
>download OpenGene source code and complie it on my gentoo install
>create new project>Humanlike>import>MisterAnon_Final1111.cgat
>Import wifey_2032.cgat
>Create child... (Check the "Fix Hereditary Diseases Automatically" box)
>Look on SNPedia.com for what rs codes you want
I want a kid with red hair so I look up the the rs code for red hair (rs1805008)
>Ctrl-F goto rs1805008
> Set to C;T
>Save as NewUntitledHuman1.cgat
>Export as...
>print out a virus
>Cum in a petri dish and apply the virus
>shoot it into my wife with a turkey blaster during sex
>She gives birth to a healthy, disease free baby
Where exactly, and be specific, does my kid get this """"hardwired""'" killswitch?

>>12607868
>citizen, it appears an anomaly has been detected in your child's genetic code during a routine checkup.
>you have been arrested for unlawful gene editing
>life in prison without parole

>>12608790
You can`t actually detect germline modifications if they were done with CRISPR. Also >>12606521
Dystopias are simple negative-ideals, the world is far too chaotic and complex to allow for such structures to exist in grand. While I do think that corporations will try to Monsanto- genetic enhancements, they won`t be able to make the same and will try to discredit self-make modifications by advertising the safety of their modifications.

>>12605022
Cancer

>>12609116
>Dystopias are simple negative-ideals, the world is far too chaotic and complex
Chaos and complexity don't exist, especially not in bioogical systems and natural economy (of which artificial economy, culture, society, and the affordances to the individual all stem). Any time anyone gets these notions about how the world works, I would advise simply looking at your own body. The so-called "chemical soup" according to chaos-brains, which is demonstrably not a soup at all. Consider this, despite all that "chaos" in the body, from some point in fetal development up until your death, in the interbeat interval you can predict with near certainty that your heart will beat again. It simply will, you know it will, and no matter what is going on at all the other levels of organization... it just does. If this rock of order and stability can exist within a sea of so-called chaos, is the rest of it so chaotic at all? No, it's highly organized and relatively narrow in its response range and how it damps or amplifies its neighbors. You can take a body and poke its little toe and reliably register a response in the brain. It doesn't matter whether you blow tons of air on the body, put it in hot water, cold water, starve it, feed it, any number of the vast range of environmental conditions and demands to which the system is subject. The brain still responds when the toe is poked, the heart still beats, the lung still breathes, the eye still transduces light. I could go on, but it is not necessary.

It is the same at all the other levels of organization, from individual, to group, to region, to macro region. Units alter and modualte the behavior of their neighbors, and themselves are subject to natural. There is no chaos. The thing with biology is it tends to collectively stabilize around certain organizing principles. In this case it is money which puts the food on the shelves, in others it could something else. There is not so much possibility as you think.

>>12609295
>and themselves are subject to natural.
natural law*

>>12608790
>t. Doesn't understand what I just wrote.
How would this be detected, Anon? Rs codes are a genetic marker. (Nearly) all red haired people have rs1805008 set to C;T.

I get that you're a brainlet, but at least try to understand.

>>12609318
You're assuming the elite don't force you to register your children, and don't have your genome on file. You're also assuming CRISPR is perfect and doesn't leave telltale artifacts.

>>12605022
>What will be the consequences of genetically modified humans?
We are making a race of small cute males with big dicks and thick beautiful amazon women

>>12609336
Will the males be dominated, circumcised, and numb playthings, or will they be uncut, super sensitive, and tormented by that route? This is one of the great questions which reveals the depths of a person's soul.

>>12605022 read Change Agent by Daniel Suarez if you're also looking for some fiction (you probably already know Gattaca).

And no, it shouldn't and doesn't need to be limited to the rich.

Dudes, 3000 years ago, when there were much less humans on earth, did human beings looked alot more like each other because of the short genetic pool?

>>12609346
There wont be outright domination of males by females in the way males have dominated women throughout our history, but basically the second one that you outlined.

>>12606751
>No such implication was made.

>>12606117
>become

They just lack the kill switch. Being fattened and lead poisoned does accomplishes the same. As did hundreds of year of inbreeding and what not in the countryside populations.

>>12605022
No worries. Humans are cognisent of long term consequences of an imbalanced system. Shitll buff.

>>12609663
I like to think that 3000 years ago most of humanity was unclamped, unvaxxed, and uncircumcised. Although the jury is still out on the lattermost. It's unclear to me if and where the Aryans fit in, and if they were the ones who first circumcised the Hebrews, Egyptians, Nubians, and so on. And whether they also circumcised themselves, or had some sort of natural agenesis of the foreskin. And so they look upon man and his member, and for a time, they say his covering will distinguish him. But eventually Enlil said no longer, he shall be marked.

When and where could one do it?

>>12609295
I'm so glad there are still people dunking on innocence theorists. God I hate the sheep so much

>>12606521
>your common baseline will not be able to compete
https://youtu.be/vrP-_T-h9YM?t=130

>>12605800
It's actually reached the point where your average schmuck can afford the a lot of the equipment for genetic engineering themselves and the pisspoor argument of "if everyone can't afford it no one should" is pathetic as banning it would benefit no one but the rich who would simply do it privately

Bump

>>12605022
The consequences will be people who love healthy long lives unburdened by terrible diseases.

>>12609318
>each new child is implanted with a unique genetic marker for the purpose of identification and crime prevention
simple

>>12605022
The consequences will be The Revolutionary Phenotype

>>12607024
>https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Azuhmier/hmofa/master/archive_7/sFyP1jQW


Holy kek what did i just read, my sides are emploiding, you actually believe this anon?

>>12605022
>What will be the consequences of genetically modified humans?

Me killing whoever does it

>>12616970
Incredibly dystopian.

The corresponding ethical issues of genetic engineering are complex and deserve serious attention in what may be a relatively short interval before these capabilities become a reality. Each society will decide for itself where to draw the line on human genetic engineering, but we can expect a diversity of perspectives. Almost certainly, some countries will allow genetic engineering, thereby opening the door for global elites who can afford to travel for access to reproductive technology. As with most technologies, the rich and powerful will be the first beneficiaries. Eventually, though, I believe many countries will not only legalize human genetic engineering, but even make it a (voluntary) part of their national healthcare systems. The alternative would be inequality of a kind never before experienced in human history. I believe that in the end all will benefit from such universal program, guaranteeing everyone being born healthy, fit and intelligent.
Another question what should be the limit of the genetic engineering, and I in my opinion we should only modify non-positional traits. A positional good benefits you only because others lack it. Height may be an advantage in men, but if everybody were three inches taller, nobody would be better off. Attractiveness may be another example of a positional good. A gain for one person implies a relative loss for others. I would contrast that with a trait like health. Your life is better when you are healthy, even if others are also healthy. Cognitive enhancements are a complex topic, but they have aspects that are intrinsically valuable. It is good if we can understand the world better.

>>12606521
>The biggest issue with human augmentation is the growing gap between the rich and poor.
The rich are always actively looking for ways to increase this gap, in order to reduce competition and mantain their position. They are also the ones who decide on policy. You've good wishes but you're also incredibly naive.

>>12617390
Based Ned Ludd

When people imagine a race of genetically modified super people they seem to imagine a race of model-like people where everyone is super tall and good looking and intelligent and shit.
But that isn't what it's going to look like because that isn't optimal.

>>12617879
>The rich are always actively looking for ways to increase this gap
The rich are no monolthic block though, are divided in different milieus/values and competition between suhc groups is far harder. True is that all power seek to grow more and economic power to monopolize everything. But enhancements themselves will undergo the same economic processes as did computer technologies as new ideas grow from new frontiers independent from old elites or are financed but not structurally hold by them.

>>12618058
Control by elites will only increase, never decrease. We will be their slaves forever.

>>12617998
It will be practically impossible to tell what's optimal. Attempting to modify the genome will lead to uniformity and a lack of diversity. "Defects" are a part of diversity/adaptability because they subspeciate a species for further evolution. The actual defects that inhibit survival get selected out relatively quickly so bioengineering isn't really needed; it's just that today there's so much harm to our genetic material going on regularly that everybody feels it's necessary to correct it genetically, when we really just need to stop exposing ourselves to inflammatory and estrogenic environments

>>12618237
We need to become hunter-gatherers again and forget this fucked up 10,000 year diversion

>>12605894
Parents would line up if the gov said their child would grow smarter, healthier and stronger. Gov would line up if working population was smarter, healthier and stronger.
It's a win win.

>>12618256
I think you overestimate the amount of people willing to have shadowy elites manipulate the DNA of their children.

>>12618237
>It will be practically impossible to tell what's optimal.
No it isn't.
>physically small bodies to support a larger population with fewer resources and less land, will increase economic, scientific, and military capability for lower cost
>high intelligence
>high levels of athleticism
>symmetrical features
>strong immune systems
This is the best way to do it and nations who do this will out compete nations who dont.

>>12618276
>being small
Cringe. No thanks

>>12618283
There will only be small males in the future
Females can be large

>>12618263
>>12618226
>shadowy elites
There is this curious quality about the public perception of the elites. Those who uphold the rule of the elites - whether they adore or fear them - all come to believe those small groups of men to be unimaginably powerful. Whether through divine mandates, superior breeding, impeccable education, vast wealth or awesome technology, the 1% are seen as flawless masters extending themselves into perpetuity, as they can do no wrong, make no mistake, and their ivory towers are eternal.
Only every time the reality eventually asserts itself, and the elites are revealed as mere men - flawed, short-sighted, self-centered, mistake-prone and emotion driven, not any better than those they have ruled over, and their image is revealed to be nothing more than a delusion of their servants who would rather be willingly trampled by supreme beings than face the reality of unjust and insane world where they are being trampled by idiots who are not any better than they are and who hold their positions through nothing more than some chance, circumstance and sheer gullibility of those who would believe them to be great.
Bootlickers and fearmongers are entirely similar in that they desperately need gods. So, lacking any, they invent them.

>>12618350
The current elite is a grafted on scion that would wither on its own. It is a parasite that uses psychological manipulation to accrue energy to itself. Our kings were killed during the French revolution and replaced by psychopaths and nobody has stopped them since.

Btw, isn't this the /sci/ board? I thought everybody here knew about IQ and the bell curve. You think that it's not plausible there is an almost inhumanly intelligent person that has filled an evolutionary niche? It's survival of the fittest and if someone has the capability to build massive schemes of layers of people manipulating other people all for that person's benefit, then that's a valid method of survival as long as the other creatures don't discover that

>>12618375
>Our kings were killed during the French revolution

>>12618350
The elite have often multiple decades ahead and had their thinktanks plot out every concevable branch so they can rapidly take advantage of changing situations. They have centuries of experience with organizational structure, decentralization, and other means of rendering their apparatus durable and very difficult to organize against. And look how stupid the population is. They clamp vaccinate and circumcise, and still, they all allow it.

How exactly are the elite not Gods again? If there was ever a description of a God, that's it. Omnipresent, temporally omnipotent, effectively omniscient, and believed by all to be omnibenevolent. You cannot go after them as though they're mere men, it wouldn't work because it isn;t so, they're keystones within a much broader ecology.

You are a fool believing yourself wise, because like the rest of us, you just want to feel secure.

>>12618350
>>12618375
>>12618384
These three posts are copy pastes from another thread

>>12618384
lmao

>>12618392
Stop samefagging schizo.

>>12618404
I'm not samefagging, nigger cattle.

>>12618405
Yes, you are, faggot.
Those posts are literally word for word copy pastes from a thread a few days ago

>>12618409
And? What does that have to do with me?

>>12618418
For some reason you're copying and pasting posts back and forth to yourself in a thread about potential for genetic modification, pretending that there's an argument going on between two people about the extent of elite power.
I don't know why you're doing this. Perhaps because you're schizo

>>12618431
>For some reason you're copying and pasting posts back and forth to yourself
False.

>>12618392
Based. Humans have evolved to build a moral system which ultimately creates an environment of well intentioned well meaning people (or sheeple). This allows a new species of human to adapt to and exploit that environment through the sublimation, disguising, or masking of the primal impulses. This is the very definition of a psychopath. Knowing this, it seems like the psychopath is a different species from homo sapiens in a way because they have access to the primal impulses in a way that homo sapiens doesn't.

>>12618409
This post >>12618392 wasn't in the thread you're referring to. Go back and look

>>12618436
>This post >>12618392 wasn't in the thread you're referring to. Go back and look
Yes it was.

>>12618451
I literally just barely wrote and posted that. If you're correct, that's far more interesting than what you're putting forward. Post a link at once.

>>12618458
You can not even in principle compute every possible externality, nor even just a small percentage of the possibilities that can happen no computer has the computational power to do such a thing and never will. Elites ride the waves of bear and bullish markets. That's literally it.

>>12618394
And?

>>12618479
And it is strange that you're copying and pasting those posts.

>>12618557
It's strange you keep insisting I'm doing it. Can you fuck off already? k thx bud

>>12618571
Nope. The posts aren't even insightful or good.

>>12618392
I think the elites are pure absolute evil and should be ripped apart in the streets

Reminder that the future humans are small highly intelligent males and tall thick amazon women with giant titties and fat asses who lives in sprawling solarpunk cities.

>>12618736
That's possible. They could be another species altogether, immortal golem left behind by another species, and several others. However if we assume they're human and haven't been biologically altered or subject to some sort of exotic deep trauma pogramming, a few notions can be drawn.

See:
>>12617839
>>12617872

Though I suspect ritual abuse probably is reponsible.

>>12618743
What if I like more well proportioned physiques? What if massive boobs and fat asses just isn't my thing, and I don't want to be my descendant's thing either? How do I preserve the objectively correct phenotype against the tides of this force?

>>12618765
Not comically massive or anything. The idea is that men are modified for efficiency and competition in a highly technocratic environment and women modified for aesthetics and feminine beauty.

>>12618800
I think roughly the breast size (and shape, which is just as important) you see in Greek and Roman statues is ideal. Though overall body geometry, especially hip and thigh structure, should have some range rather than a few set archetypes.which are mass produced endlessly.

>>12618813
A lot of people like smaller breasts that will exist.
Large hips help with birth, and they're also the beauty of the feminine in my opinion, but the overall large size of women may help with that too so if your issue is with proportions then that's covered as well.
Why don't you like thick hips? just wondering.

>>12618888
Wide, thick hips are inefficient for bipedal locomotion and just aren't aesthetically pleasing to me. It's more the overall ratio than the sheer size however, the whole physique should be balanced. A waist should not be too small for a given hip and shoulder size. Hips should not be too small nor too large. Shoulder width should neither be square and msculine, nor should it be narrow and neotenous. Essentially the ideal is a balanced, feminine, functional, and comfortable body.

It's very likely that like attracts like. My own pelvis is relatively narrow (~13 inches across) and I'm not all that tall either. My ancestors were largely Northern European and from cold climates, so this type of selection for both function and form is probably genetically biased.

>>12605800
Since when that stopped anyone from having what others can't.

Designer babies and artifical wombs will be banned by feminists. As it represents the destruction of their monopoly and power.

Along with sexbots and strong general AI that can provide company.

>>12605022
two big reasons, and likely more
1. long term survival issues from over optimization. Even if you don't believe in God or millions of years of evolution, it is stupidly arrogant to think we can get this right.
2. social fallout from inequality caused by this. We got enough issues right now, if we can't handle something as simple as skin color how do you think we will deal with this.

This is Pandora's box, best leave it alone even if there is some treasure inside.

>>12619711
>1. long term survival issues from over optimization. Even if you don't believe in God or millions of years of evolution, it is stupidly arrogant to think we can get this right.
We got to the moon, built machines that traveled to the sun and beyond the planets. The blind chaos of nature has got nothing on human ingenuity. You are also underestimating the increased diversity that will develop with paramodifications. Even germline modifications keep the diversity and can add to it but augment expression and give new possibilities.
The cost for genetic modifications are not that high. CRISPR and other techniques dropped the cost below 10.000$. Anyone with a biolaboratory in his garage could do it in 30-50 years.
And the "box" was already opened: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/02/21/137309/the-crispr-twins-had-their-brains-altered/

>>12619701
>artifical wombs will be banned by feminists.
Eh, some feminists see artifical womb as a tool for emancipation as it would free women to carry babies.

>>12619833
You can't transcend the bounds of your mortal coil. Human ingenuity only exists within nature's purview an tutelage. Attempting to modify something basal to intelligence using intelligence is certain to act similarly to how a perpetual motion machine's parts act and react with each other in such a way that entropy still increases and perpetual motion cannot be achieved. The same goes for intelligence modifying its own source, acting within the system. Doing that can only act as an outflow of energy, it cannot add and subtract energy that was not already there.

>>12605022
>genetically tinkered megawomen with no inhibitions and no wombs so you can pseudobreed whenever
>design children that will be guaranteed to carry on the purple eye investment you injected into them at zygote years-old
>nobody sad because sadness brain part wont be programmed in
>everyone thankful for recessive genetic diseases being eradicated in a single generation and all non-recessive genetic diseases are corrected in utero in the same session as screening without parental consent
>parents don't exist
>addictions caused by overactive nucleus accumbens and dopamine deficiencies are obliterated
>all men have 7 inch penises which bears the highest security-to-female-satisfaction ratio
>all men have 7 inch penises to fundamentally destroy stand up comedian genitalia-related comedy
>economy always improving from a businesses growing and cloning perfect, happy workers that suit business needs
>deviance nonexistent
>everyone equally smart when compared to the clonebatch that they came from
>education tailored by specific business entities rather than nations and governments
>nobody fails
>nobody exhausted from tedious, disappointing, ill-suited job

>>12620068
Equality is the god that has and will fail