/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12604768
US NC
No, although imposter syndrome is a bitch
34k

>>12604768
UK, no being paid to do little work and fuck about with computers. £15k, not bad for not having to leave the house and barely one 30 min meeting a week with no other commitments

US, GA
Not yet, first year though
39k

>>12604768

Fucking stick with it until the end

You'll be Dr. Anon for the rest of your life, and that opens doors

>>12606225
>You'll be Dr. Anon for the rest of your life, and that opens doors
True but it also closes other doors. A lot of people won't want to hire you for "lower level" (which can be just as good if not better) jobs and you spend a lot of time in school getting paid less when you could be working/getting experience. You have to have a reason for getting the phd to make the sacrifice of doing it worth it imo. For example, you want to do a specific type of research (which may not pay well btw) and its the only way to do it.

>>12604768
>UK
>No, but I regret doing it in the UK. The country has gone insane.
>Good enough

>>12604768
>>12604768
>did it in Australia
>i regretted it every day for the last couple years, and the year and a half afterwards of unemployment, but after i actually got a job things improved alot and i get to add letters to my email signature.
>was about $28k per year plus a little extra from some teaching and tutoring to a bit over $30k aka minimum wage. But that only lasted for 3.5 years, and it took a while longer than that to finish, so i ended up having to pay for a bit... fucking hurt

>>12604768
US, CA
I don't know I'm only in the first few years although this year I've been having extreme crises for what I want to do with my life
36k

>>12604768
I did my Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics in Australia and I don't regret it. The only reason I even got my Ph.D. in the first place was due to Adderall, and when no Adderall was present, I used methamphetamine in small dosages to complete work. I now earn 102,000 Aussie bucks which I can then blow immediately after payday with no consequences since I live with my parents at 28.

>>12607062
I battle myself everyday resisting the move to begin taking amphetamines to further my academic endeavours. I just keep telling myself, “keep to caffeine and amphetamine”. I used adderall on a handful of occasions over the years, but haven’t had to worry about becoming reliant on it because there isn’t much available.

I never did. I got a master's degree in engineering, got a job and that's that. I'm comfy, I earn enough to support the lifestyle I always longed for while saving up for a pension, and I've got enough free time to enjoy my various hobbies.
All of this matters little with depression but hey, it's something.

>>12607102
I don't use amphetamines or any derivatives anymore, I quit after the Ph.D. was finished without too many problems. I burned all of the existing stock to prevent relapsing, it has worked like a charm.

>>12604768
>us
>no
>70k

>>12604768
US, NC
No
34k

>>12604768
I'm still in gradschool, but I inteed to work with quantum computing.
Is this a good a idea given that I like physics and cs? also I heard that a lot of good companies hire researchers in this field

US, NC
No
34k

lots of triangle fags in here

>>12604768
US
I don't regret it but there are for sure moments where I wish I had the freedom to do things like buy a house and it's impossible with my constant moving and low pay
Around 35k

If a single larping fagboy in this larp thread can post a time stamped (piece of paper, hand written) picture of their Master's diploma (names, dates, staff signatures, and even specialty field of study can be blacked out if needed for privacy) I'll chuck and rally chug a full gallon of chocolate milk and post it.

But nobody can. Because nobody here has their undergrad, and most probably haven't even passed high school.

>>12607740
> Master's diploma
I would do it but I'd black everything out for doxxing purposes and you probably wouldn't accept that

us, oregon. i have no regrets, they pay me ~$23k a year to do math and i don't need that much to live comfortably.

>>12607740
seconded

France
No regrets
1400 eurodollars per month after tax

>>12607783
because, you know, we aren't stupid

>>12606223
Hey GAbro, where you at? Emory here.

>>12607796
>oregon
>23k
Anon just bite the bullet and work at McDonald's already, jesus fuck that's grim. At least you'll be rolling in cash when you're done, right?

>>12607783
>names, dates, staff signatures, and even specialty field of study can be blacked out if needed for privacy
Bullshit answer #1

>>12607796
>$23k a year
that's literally minimum wage, lmao
>40hr/wk, 50weeks, at $11.50 min wage
and you say you're doing /math/?

>>12607973
Have nothing to prove and don't really care if you believe it or not

>americuck
>yes, but I've boxed myself in so I have no choice but to stick to it and bear the consequences of my shitty decisions
>$24k yearly
I wish I could go back and slap my undergrad self to go into engineering and CS instead. Autistic sperging over pure math isn't worth it.

>>12604768
US, CA
No
36k

>>12606956
Which school? Seems like the stipend is the same everywhere.

>>12604768
US, IL
Not yet
30k

>>12607062
An engineer is working at his desk in his office. His cigarette falls off the desk into the wastebasket, causing the papers within to burst into flames. The engineer looks around, sees a fire extinguisher, grabs it, puts out the flames, and goes back to work.

A physicist is working at his desk in another office and the same thing happens. He looks at the fire, looks at the fire extinguisher, and thinks "Fire requires fuel plus oxygen plus heat. The fire extinguisher will remove both the oxygen and the heat in the wastebasket. Ergo, no fire." He grabs the extinguisher, puts out the flames, and goes back to work.

A mathematician is working at his desk in another office and the same thing happens. He looks at the fire, looks at the fire extinguisher, and thinks for a minute, says "Ah! A solution exists!" and goes back to work.

>>12606225
OP here. My story
>Graduated for a Golden triangle uni in the UK with a first class in a STEM field
>tired of the "cold, grey UK" (after only 3 years)
>decide to do my PhD in Greece, my home country
>Pick the "best" uni in the country
>they welcome me
>i accept because why not
>1 month in
>"What do you mean you expect a contract?"
>Stipend is subject to change every 5 months, can range from zero to 900 euro max
>no stipend in the summer
>total earnings are sub 9k euro a year
>no contract specifying the duration, meaning the professor can exploit me for up to 8 years
>absolute and rampant corruption, clubs associated with political parties have the answers before the exams (and want your vote to give them to you)
>equipment fails or isn't used
>secretaries never answer the phone

I want to re-apply for a PhD in the UK.
Do I tell them the truth (I quit my previous PhD because the institution was bad) or will that make me seem like an unmotivated quitter? I can try and sell myself as a "research associate" instead.

>>12604768
>Paris, France
>Not yet
>after taxes 23k

>>12608010
Bullshit answer #2

>>12608233
Kek. Math bros btfo

>>12607740
Somebody do it

>>12607062
>>12607102
>>12607133
At least you realize you're addicted. Some people never have that luxury until it's too late.

>>12607875
I have been considering university of oregon just because I'm getting youtube advertisements and don't want to live in my state anymore. Glad I dodged a bullet

>>12608233
Kek at mathematician joke. Engineer line was kind of cheesy. Physicist joke delivery was kinda cringe.

>>12608507
Don't tell them the truth because British/Anglo people are cucks and will not hesitate to tattletale to the police. It's in their genes.

#usa ,ca
# nope
#185k

>>12608616
>will not hesitate to tattletale to the police
what does this have to do with my case?

>>12604768
>>12606184
>UK
>I started a couple of months ago during quarantine. Haven't met anyone other than my supervisors for more than 5 minutes, got to spend time in the office just a couple of days before lockdowns started again, and feel like I've done and learned fuck all in months. I don't know whether it's me who's fucking up, or it's the situation I'm in, but so far I'm not very hopeful.
>18k GBP (24k USD)

>>12608652
>Be Bri'ish
>See neighbour watch the news on the tellie
>He has not renewed his license for tellie privileges this month
>dob the bloke into the po'ice
>he calls me a "tattletale"

Such is the life of an Anglo-Saxon.

>>12608507
bumping my own post, please advise me

>>12609065
>please advise me
Pay denbts
Also, can you just get out of you "employment"?
The inconsistent wage is s bit sketchy, surely grease has worker protection laws.
What is in the employment contract you signed?
My advice is to apply in UK for a PhD programme and make sure your professor is trustworthy, so your fine non denbts paying ass doesn't get hustled and pimped for up to a decade in classic south yurop gangster fashion.
Make sure you have a deal before you leave your current situation however, don't want to stand in the rain.

>>12608695
yeah exactly the same lolbdown to even the stipend amount, at least my supervisor is happy with what I'm doing so far.

>>12608695
I guess that's relatively normal. I finished recently, and when the chinese flu hit and I got into lockdown I was basically useless for a couple of months. Plus in your case, first year can be quite inefficient sometimes, regardless of the virus. That's also when interactions with your coworkers can be quite useful, as they're supposed to advise you on stuff like methodology etc (depending on your field I guess, I'm a physicsfag so it was nice for experimental work). The corona is doing a lot of damage in this regard.

>>12609074
>surely grease has worker protection law
I am classified as a student
>What is in the employment contract you signed
there is none
>>12609074
>Make sure you have a deal before you leave your current situation however
what about opportunity cost? Can it even be quantified?

>>12609150
But what did you agree upon with your supervisor? Surely you have some kind of schedule.
Well you will have to decide whether your current situation is sufficiently uncomfortable to change it.
>no employment contract
Is this common practice in grease? Typically for phd students your prof is the employer and he pays over funds that he somehow acquires out of his ass, at least that's what it's like here in germoney.
How exactly did you being accepted as a PhD candidate go?

>>12608695
It's normal to feel lost in your first year, or even the first two years.
I finished last Summer

Europe vs USA for engineering PhD.
Which is better?

>>12609345
Also, if you already have a master's, can you find 3-4 year PhD positions in the US, or are they all 5-7 years long? I'm already 26 so I can't justify not having a job until I'm 32.

>>12608695
>18k GBP
What kind of living standard does that buy you in the UK?

>>12604768
>>where are you doing your PhD (country)
I'm not doing a PhD
>>do you regret doing your PhD
I'm not doing a PhD
>>whats your stipend
SNEED Scholarship for people who aren't doing a PhD

I’m literally doing paperwork for my boss’s PhD because he’s a 60 year old cunt who can’t delegate.

>>12609359
>£1500 monthly
I put £750 in savings and I keep the rest for rent/food and other spending.
I believe the national minimum wage is around 15k per year, so it's definitely livable if you don't have to support someone else and don't mind living with 5+ housemates (whereas rent alone would be at least £700 for a place of my own)

Belgium
Yes and no
1,9k eur 1st year, 2.3k eur 4th year (net salary)

>>12609397
>and don't mind living with 5+ housemates
Ah fuck. You at least have your own room right?

>>12608507
I think telling them the truth would show your ambition. I would respect someone who saw that the situation they were in was not fixable and so they made a difficult change. If the school in Greece was dishonest about most of their system that's a bonus too. The corruption thing by itself would convince me to not judge someone for leaving, but if the school itself was dishonest that would add to an acceptance of you leaving

>>12606673
>The country has gone insane.
You mean with our lockdown?

>>12609415
Yeah. In my case, the house has 7 people, but you don't really notice anyone else until you get to wait for your turn to cook dinner. Granted, I experienced this during the lockdowns, so at any one time only about half the household is here and the rest are staying with their parents.

>>12609433
I guess it's not so bad if you have your own private space. How do you find people to rent a house with?

>>12609428
I mean with me getting an email every week from ym departament about tranny, nigger, and faggot rights.

>>12609446
I think the common pipeline is to rent uni accommodation is in the first year, then meet people in your accommodation or course and form a group. Otherwise looking on your own is a bit harder. I made a facebook profile and joined various groups but nobody replied probably because I look like a sperg, then found a housemate searching site and made a profile there (and that succeeded)

>>12609489
cool, thanks anon

Thinking about doing a PhD in a few (2-3) years, but damn that 60% cut to my salary looks terrible. How can I start saving and coping now?

>>12604768
America
yeah
not much

Why does Oxford university require a "research proposal" when applying? Does that mean you need to have worked out a topic with a potential advisor before applying?

my only regret is being born unto an age of hopelessness and despair. an age where i know i will find no joy no matter what i do.

>>12609885

but if i am to find any joy whatsoever, it will be in getting a phd. even after that i don't know if i'll make it.

>>12608201
caltech

>>12604768
Harvard (USA) physics
Yes
$44K/year in 2017 +$10K / semester class taught (quarter time)

>>12607740
>getting a master's before a phd
why would I do that?
I didn't enroll here, but it should serve to show that at least some of us are actually in/graduated from phd programs

>>12609969
>>12609985
How difficult is it to get into these top schools? Do you need perfect grades or what?

>>12610037
3.8 gpa, REU, research experience, good letters, decent gre, most importantly: indicate that you know why you want to go to that specific school and work with a specific researcher

>>12610163
Do you have to contact the supervisor beforehand to have a chance or do you just apply?

>>12604768
>did mine in US, Delaware
>yes
>stipend was 24k when I started and 27k when I graduated, but extra teaching assignments padded this

>>12610251
if you want to apply to a top program, it is in your best interest to contact the advisors you want to work with first. this is because:
>they'll know your name and might put in a word at admissions if you're a good fit
>if there's competition between students after you've been admitted, they're more likely to pick someone they know to be in their group
>they can let you know if they aren't taking students so you shouldn't waste your time

>>12610272
>they'll know your name and might put in a word at admissions if you're a good fit
'hol up
I thought the way it worked was that professors sat around a table and looked through applications and divided the best ones between themselves. So who is this "admissions" person that decides which professor gets which student?

>>12610321
there is an admissions department at every school. professors will be on this department, but not every professor in your field is. in most cases, the professor you're interested in will not be on the admissions department.
you are also accepted to the school, not to a specific group, so if you have someone you want to work with you should make sure there will be space for you. otherwise, you can be admitted but not make it into the group you want.

>>12610395
Oh, so the admissions department selects the juiciest candidates and divides them among the professors. Thanks anon!

>>12609985
What is your topic? All my friends at Harvard are getting about 36k, at least in condensed matter experiment.
>>12609969
Ok, I am at Stanford. Housing prices are crazy here.

>>12610421
A lot of schools have rotation program where you can try out different groups for a year or so.

>>12610445
I assume you're referring to the schools in the US? Euro PhD programs are too short for that I think.

>>12610421
correct, except the admissions department doesn't divide the candidates among professors. they accept people vaguely on the basis of who they want to work with and how many people those professors are taking, but it's up to you to meet with a professor and ask to join their group once you've been accepted.
you can be accepted and then not have a group to join. this is why applying to schools with >1 group that you're interested in is best, unless you have prior confirmation that you will have a spot should you choose to attend.
>>12610438
housing is also absurdly expensive in Pasadena, for how old and mediocre this town is. there's really no industry draw and yet the cheapest studio I can find is $1600/mo, which baffles me, so I'll probably have to continue living with someone.
I'm sure up there it's just ridiculous though.

>>12610460
>you can be accepted and then not have a group to join
What happens then?
Also, doesn't Caltech offer some sort of campus/subsidized housing for its students?

>>12610472
>What happens then?
you either join a group that you're not as interested in, or you wait for an opening and have a limbo year where you get funding by teaching or have to pay yourself. you really don't want to be in this situation, which is why you ask before accepting your admission.
>doesn't Caltech offer some sort of campus/subsidized housing
yes, but it's only guaranteed for the first year (although most people can get the lottery for a spot in their next year). having this uncertainty in whether you'll be able to stay was enough for me to move so I could have something more stable and less controlled by the university. although my wallet is hurting.

>>12610481
I see, thanks again.

>>12609449
It's the same here in 'Murica. Even math isn't safe anymore.

>>12610524
You get emails about fag rights? Seriously? You're not pulling my leg?

>>12610481
Does this mean that a prof. could like you and want you to join his group but admissions could reject your application?

>>12610524
I am doing math as well. Genuinely felt my cheeks go red after they sent me an email about "race equality taskforce".

>>12610531
Yes. I am contemplating emigrating to china.

>>12610560
Come home to Poland white man.

>>12607862
Holy shit, I'm at Emory too. What do you study?

>>12610580
Chinks are pretty much as good as white people. only have issues with niggers and aboriginals. Furthermore, chinks will inherit the world. The loose capitalist societies of the west just can't compete with centralized authoritarian governments in the long term. Also I used to be a weeb, so seeing asian women makes me want to coom.

>>12610555
yes absolutely. the school admits who the admissions department thinks would be the best student for them, not necessarily who a specific professor thinks

>>12610617
Some really good info ITT.

>>12610450
Yes
>>12610460
>the cheapest studio I can find is $1600/mo
That's the price of a studio in subsidized (!) housing on campus here. Without it, the studio price is about 2000-2300. Housing is guaranteed for the whole duration of your PhD, which is nice.

>>12610606
China became a raising power BECAUSE it let go of much of its authoritarian stranglehold on the economy.

>>12607062
Can engineering undergrads even command such a salary without going through PhD

>>12610531
Not only emails from the university, but from the department and even the students.
It's over anons, the woke crowd has taken over entirely.
I've survived by keeping my views to myself and avoiding any sort of political conversation.

>>12609449
We got some shit about Decolonizing Academia last week

>>12604768
>US, Physics
>Meh, yes and no. Part of me wishes I'd just called it quits after the MS and gone to work, but at this point I'm like 1-2 semesters from defending, so I'm glad I stuck with it.
>Kind of shit, after taxes it's like $23K and I usually have to fork over about $3K a year for my insurance and grad fees. Thankfully we've got a large enough undergrad population that the department usually needs extra TAs to cover all the labs and shit - post-qual RAs get hourly to teach labs or do recitations. Which, I'm one of those weirdos who enjoys teaching so I'm getting $25/hr to do shit I probably would have been willing to do for free. Definitely helps give me a financial buffer to work with.

>>12610531
APS and AAS have both been sending out BLM/LGBT/ERHMAGAWDORANGEMANBAD emails to members for like 2-3 years.

>>12609349
PhD engineer here, in my program, having master level courses could reduce the number of classes you have to take in your first year, if the department allows you to receive credit for them. Our avg time was 5.5 years, but the first year was mostly classes for non masters. Ultimately, find the right PI that doesn't have a problem running you through quickly, assuming you put in quality work.

>>12610555
Hey anon, I just finished my grad apps myself and was admitted to one of the top schools in my field. Here are some tips that I have
- A lot of people say that applying to grad school isn't like applying to undergrad. They're both right and wrong, but they're mostly wrong. Assess the quality of the program based on how the school is ranked in your department. This is sometimes something that is obvious, schools like Caltech and MIT will be ranked highest in most sciences. What won't be immediately obvious is that there other great universities with great names attached to them like Tufts or Rice who have shitty departments in your desired field. This makes them way less selective, and most employers will still favor you. Take advantage of this!
- Despite my previous piece of advice, this is something that my current PI told me when applying to grad school. Even though you can find a ton of great schools with great names attached to them, MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE RESEARCH THAT INTERESTS YOU! To quote my PI word for word: "If you're going to do it for the next five years, you'd better fucking like it."
- Going back to the thing where applying to grad school is like applying to undergrad. Remember when you applied to undergrad and you made sure to get all of those affirmative action points? Yeah, you're going to want to do the same thing when you're applying to grad school. ESPECIALLY if you're black. The percentage of total graduate students who are black is ridiculously small (go figure). Grad schools wet their pants for black people applying to their programs.
- >>12610617 <-- pay attention to what this anon says. Even still (this will sound corny, but trust me) research every school that you apply to. Reach out to any professor whose research interests you, their email will be on their research page. Set up a zoom meeting, phone call, whatever tickles your fancy. Tell them that you want to discuss potential research overlaps. cont. in next comment

>>12610715
Unlikely. You need more experience, more education, or need to go live on a oil rig and have no life for those numbers as an undergrad engineer

>>12611294
So yeah, tell them you want to discuss research overlaps. There is a STRONG chance that this person either 1. Is on the admissions committee 2. Was on the admissions committee 3. Knows someone on the admissions committee. This person will let the admissions committee know ahead of time that you reached out to them. Fast forward to when you are applying to that schools program for your field. In your SOP WRITE THE FUCKING NAMES OF ANYONE YOU TALKED TO DOWN! Talk about how you are fascinated by their research. MENTION A RECENT PUBLICATION, you will find these on their research page. And more than anything, TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU WILL BRING TO THE TABLE, NOT WHY YOU ARE A GOOD FUCKING FIT! Here, I will give you an example of what I mean.
DO:
>I am interested in professor liu kang's research in computational biology. Given my extensive experience studying biology and double majoring in mathematics, I can offer a unique physical perspective that otherwise would have been overlooked!
FUCKING DON'T
>I double majored in biology and mathematics in undergrad, so I would be a perfect fit for any sort of biological physics group at Garbage State University.
- Fucking humble yourself when you apply. Nobody cares about your bachelor's degree, double major, minor, or double minor. Nobody cares about your internships, nobody cares about your undergraduate research experience. MENTION THEM, BUT DON'T MENTION THEM AND PRETEND THAT THEY MAKE YOU AN EXPERT IN YOUR FIELD. In the same breath, don't undersell yourself either. Your SOP is not a confession booth, do NOT use it to make excuses for why you got C's and B's in the first half of your undergraduate career. Again, MENTION THESE THINGS, but do not let it dominate your SOP. Your SOP should demonstrate
1. Your humility
2. Your genuine interest in your field
3. What the fuck you bring to the table
more cont.

>>12611343
>>I am interested in professor liu kang's research in computational biology. Given my extensive experience studying biology and double majoring in mathematics, I can offer a unique physical perspective that otherwise would have been overlooked!
I disagree. If you've done extensive undergrad research, there's a good chance you can apply some of it in your grad work. I did. Of course, nobody cares about courses though.

Do you anons regard a PhD as a step forward in life? I feel the time I've spent in school up to now is something that I HAD to do, you know? I think I'll advance in life only when I get an actual job and start building connections and experience, maybe settle down with a girl. So if I get a PhD position with a stipend, is that going forward in life or stagnating? I don't want to be 32 when I try to get my first job.

>>12611394
>Do you anons regard a PhD as a step forward in life?
Yes, of course. You should be growing as a person no matter what you do.
>32
How old are you now? I will finish my PhD by 25-26.

>>12611294
>>12611343
Thanks for the tips anon!

>>12611409
27
I fucked up a bit before undergrad.

>UK
>Every day. I dug myself into a hole where the easiest way onwards was a PhD, but then doing the PhD has just made the hole deeper. Mistakes piled upon mistakes, forming the shit pile that is my life.
>About 23k GBP per year, guess that's about 31k USD

>>12611424
It's really fine. I wouldn't worry about getting your first job at 32.

>>12611343
- Finally, your SOP is one of the most important parts of your application. More important than your SOP are your letters of rec. MAKE. SURE. YOUR. SOP. IS. CONSISTENT. WITH. YOUR. REC. LETTERS. If you didn't get shit done in your undergrad research, MENTION IT, because your PI sure as fuck will (Oh yeah, side one here. I'm sure you don't need me to fucking say this but if you did undergraduate research and you are applying to grad school, one of your rec letters needs to be from your undergrad PI. No fucking argument, nobody cares about how much your genetics, organic chemistry, intermediate mechanics, or ODE's professor enjoyed you stroking their ego during office hours.)
- Try not to apply to the same school that you did your undergrad at.
- Dont tell the school what other schools you are applying to.
- Do not make it obvious that a program you are applying to is a safety.
- >>12611359
This anon brings up a fair point. While you should mention what you bring to the table, relevant research experience is king.
If I think of anything else, I will come back to the thread and share. But yeah, I finished my grad apps a month ago. Admitted to 3/6 programs I applied to, denied from one. Guess why.
>>12611410
Gl in the future man

>>12611430
thanks fren
btw, when did you enter undergrad if you're going to finish a PhD by 25-26?

>>12611438
>Admitted to 3/6 programs I applied to
Which ones? Is your dream school among them?
>>12611446
I finished when I was 20 (turned 21 that summer). I started at 17 since I finished high school a bit early.

>>12611427
Also I'm not from the UK originally and I very much regret coming here. I thought this was a first-world country but it's a police state plague island with tiny wages and massive living costs where the youth and poor are relentlessly sacrificed to ensure rich boomers can die with their bank accounts a bit more full. Getting a job somewhere else with zero connections is going to be a fucking nightmare.

>>12611459
ffs every western country has someone complaining about it
>USA
shit stipends
abusive supervisors
PhD students are slave labor
country is a mess
>Canada
awful housing costs
low wages
high cost of living
freezing cold
>UK
see above post
>Sweden
fuckhigh taxes
relatively low wages
retarded government

WHAT IS A GOOD COUNTRY TO MOVE TO?

>>12611454
Columbia, UCLA, and UCSB, all for physical chemistry programs. I am waiting to hear back from Stanford and MIT, got denied from my undergrad school UMass.

>>12611438
>SOP is one of the most important parts of your application

shit, seriously? I bullshitted mine over a course of a weekend and just talked about how my educational and vocational experiences led up to the point where my professional and personal goals lay in grad school and how these experiences have prepared me to succeed in grad school. I made it a bit generic and didn't really mention schools by name... I figured I'd be fine because my friend bullshitted her letter and she got into good engineering programs...

I'm really hoping my 3.93, my half-year researching stint, and the letter from my PI pull me through. Not sure what the hell my PI wrote because he never saw me; I worked under his graduate student lol. Perhaps I'm stressing too much because I applied for Masters, not a PhD; hopefully that's less competitive.

>>12611495
Stanford is boring. If you can do MIT, I'd go there. I liked Boston way more. The program is hard though, Stanford's one is a breeze (for Physics).

>>12611495
>got denied from my undergrad school UMass
Is this connected to your previous point about not applying to the same school you did your undergrad at?

I'm doing my PhD at the same place I did my undergrad. Wasn't my original intention, I wanted to get the fuck away, but things happened. I wouldn't recommend it, I didn't get along here socially in undergrad and that continued as a postgrad. Also I feel like that adult hanging out with teenagers that everyone knew as a kid .

>>12611534
You've already applied, so don't stress over it! It will be fine, anon!

>>12611543
>Is this connected to your previous point about not applying to the same school you did your undergrad at?
It is quite common to get rejected from your home institution. They want you to explore other places, if it's a good school. My undergrad PI straight out told me he will not take me as a grad student because he wanted me to experience different school/group cultures.

>>12611534
It definitely is super important. Masters programs are way less competitive than PhD programs for admittance though. Letters of Rec matter a fuck ton too. GPA doesn't really matter, but having a 3.93 definitely doesn't hurt. Research experience helps, I knew someone with only a summer of undergraduate research experience who got into a top program in their field.
>>12611541
Yeah, MIT is my dream school. Boston is a fun place, although I am from CT myself. I enjoyed living in western mass, I feel like living in actual Boston would be a bit stressful though.
>>12611543
Very much so. In addition, I told them where else I was applying, and it was pretty fuckin obvious that I had no intention of going there unless I got flat out denied from every other school. I get their thought process, why even bother admitting me when its clearly my last option? There are students who are applying for UMass as their top choice and banking on getting in, it'd be much more useful to admit them from the jump. Also this >>12611553

>>12611576
>I feel like living in actual Boston would be a bit stressful though.
Nah, it's fine. A very livable city. Good public transport, lots of things to do.

>>12604768
US GA
no
$55k (cause GI bill added)

>>12611576
I had a 3.7 GPA, zero research experience, zero related industry work, out of school for 5 years, and got into a top ten school phd program as a white male. My PI really liked me for some reason I guess

>>12611676
You give me hope.

>>12611576
Yeah - letters of rec, sop, and undergrad research are the triple threat for graduate applications

>>12611534
> I figured I'd be fine because my friend bullshitted her letter and she got into good engineering programs...
Yes, of course
>she
did, you imbecile. Gl kek

I'm curious if anyone else here got accepted to an Ivy for grad school and then opted for somewhere else, or if it's just me.

>>12612071
Where did you choose to go?

>>12604768
>Where?
Big state school out west
>Stipend?
Around 23K
>Regret?
No. As a BS chemist I was trapped in lab monkey/QA roles. As a PhD I am considered an expert and get infinitely more freedom to work on actually interesting projects. It is probably easier to get a job as a BS, even more so if you're an engineer, but the best you can hope for is some job babysitting a spreadsheet.

As for quitting yours it really isn't that big of a deal either way. Almost half of the people I knew in my program didn't finish and they found good jobs anyway. So either suffer for a few more years or get out.

>>12612093
>Almost half of the people I knew in my program didn't finish
I don't know anyone who didn't finish.

>>12612098
Small class size? Half of all PhD students never graduate in the US. People left my program for all sorts of reasons, mostly terrible advisors or family stuff.

>>12612081
Don't want to say where specifically - a research school in the South.

The Ivy I got accepted to and visited was picturesque and has a solid research program, but everyone there had such a fucking pretentious, stick-up-their-ass, chip-on-their-shoulder, old-money kind of attitude about them. It was only a two day trip, but by the time the visit wrapped up there were prospective classmates, grad students, and even a couple faculty that had already gone out of their way to make me feel like some working class Rust Belt peasant who didn't deserve to be there. I certainly wasn't going to put up with 4-6 years of that just for the sake of putting an Ivy school on my CV.

School I ended up at had a similar research program, but a completely different attitude - everyone was warm, welcoming, and genuinely friendly. I've made a lot of great friends here the last few years.

>>12612166
I did my undergrad at Harvard and I liked it there. I am now doing a PhD at Stanford and I have to say, I liked Harvard more. Stanford is definitely more chill though.

>>12610036
>Not a diploma with a time stamp
Proves jack shit home slice. What's worse it that you can't even post an undergrad.

>>12607222
>>12605472
>>12607641
Enjoying BBSP?

>>12610036
because it usually takes no extra effort and lets you have something to put on your resume if you bomb the quals

>>12612166
similar thing happened to me when I visited dartmouth - overheard a grad student and his friend talking to each other about the prospective students and they referred to me as 'the hayseed'. like, i didn't even think that was an insult people used anymore.
fuck ivies, overrated trash.

>>12612071
yes, I did (see: >>12610036). although the school I chose to go to has better work in my field than the ivies I got into
>>12612177
seethe, why would I go through the effort of faking this? also like I said I chose not to go there. I'm not doxxing myself to appease some anonymous retard
>>12612208
>because it usually takes no extra effort
yeah but in the US a Master's will set you back thousands of dollars since they're almost unanimously unfunded and used as cash cows for the universities.
also
>dartmouth being pretentious
not a surprise, when they're going to spend the rest of their life flaunting that they "went to an ivy" despite it being worse than 20+ public schools, they have to start cultivating their superiority early

>>12612222
>I'm not doxing myself
>Even though I successfully posted a picture of a downloaded acceptance letter with crucial doxxing information redacted
>But somehow I'm incapable of doing the exact same fucking shit with a diploma and a time stamp
Absolutely seething right now. I called you out on your bullshit, you're nothing more than a massive LARPer and literally every response you have that isn't proof is simply massive fucking cope.

>>12611438
>MAKE. SURE. YOUR. SOP. IS. CONSISTENT. WITH. YOUR. REC. LETTERS.
I made the mistake of hesitating too long on where to send applications, contacting my PIs later than I should have, and only then writing a SOP so I couldn't tell them what to put into their letters. All my apps went in a day before the deadline.
That's another thing I wish I'd known, admission committees are basically gathering a few months in advance to scan early applicants and in many cases you can actually get in ahead of the crowd if you just apply early enough. But I was hoping for another side project as late as September so this didn't really apply to my situation anyways.
Still got interviews, and we'll see how those go.

>>12611480
supervisors are abusive everywhere, trust me.
Midwestern US has some good schools like WUSTL and Wisconsin-Madison for life sciences. Cost of living is cheap there, so even your shit stipend goes a long way
But yeah WUSTL in particular is in St. Louis, the literal murder capital of the US, so YMMV

>>12609421
thank you <3

>>12604768
>UK
>no I'm literally getting paid to read pure maths there's no other way to do that
>16k
I think it's less than minimum wage (although service workers are now obviously not employed) but liveable. I started about 3 months ago and it's only in the last couple of weeks that I've started enjoying my work.

>>12609359
tfw living with my mum and pocketing all the stipend with no expenses, just bought an RTX 3090 last year and living comfy and buying the good food.

>>12607740
Like anyone's gonna dox themselves in this shithole

>>12612989
>just bought an RTX 3090
>not investing the money
You have the mindset of a child.

>>12604768
>place
Norway

>regrets
Don't regret starting it, don't regret quitting it either

>stipend
Around half of what I'd earn in the biz

Norway is a pretty nice place for a PhD

>>12613190
>Norway is a pretty nice place for a PhD
Shame it has no really good unis.

>>12613277
They're not as bad as the rankings make it seem, but they're not very prestigious.

>>12613277
Bergen is pretty good. And you stick to your book, since it is always raining.

>>12613289
I think this is a common theme with the Scandi countries, and probably a lot of other countries as well. The rankings lean very heavily towards the anglosphere. Staring at ranks is dumb anyway as once you get past the very top ones name recognition falls fast and I wouldn't associate rank with quality except as a general trend, especially when you're looking at something as specific as a research group. You can have groups in no-name universities doing world-leading research, as well as less impressive groups in big-name universities. The "wow" factor in the name is only really present for the very best institutions, especially outside of their respective country.

The bigger issue might be language, though everyone at a university and most people in the capitals will probably speak English I'd feel like an outsider if I wasn't able to understand most of what was going on around me. Though people commonly make such circumstances work and they're not particularly difficult languages to learn.

>>12613327
so is europe good for a math phd?

>>12609412
lol tu es à l'ulb ? si oui on s'est surement deja vu irl

>>12612665
do not, under any circumstances, go to WUSTL unless you are a 100% shut-in NEET who has no desire to ever leave the bedroom. St. Louis was the worst town I ever had the misfortune of living in, and everyone I know who moved there (for whatever purpose) regretted it as well in under a year.
My sample size is large as well because I'm from Kansas City, so a lot of my friends ended up going to STL.

>>12614525
My only interests beyond science are hiking and reading, neither of which needs a functional city, therefore idc about the absolute state of SL while I love the university's microbio department
However, thanks for the advice and I will take it into account.
I find it funny how often these sois cope regarding how "every city" has to worry about carjackings and burglaries, wew lad

Anyone else nervous about doing a PhD because then they'd have to pick a specialty? I have a lot of interests (mostly without experience) and I don't know which direction to take.

>>12604768
Here's my PhD thesis on controls:
>The differences between an open circuit and a closed circuit loop are that an open circuit loop makes something happen and then is unable to check if the thing that was supposed to happen happened, thus whether it happened or not it will try to to make it happen as if he never know what is happening. On the other hand, a closed-circuit loop can tell whether the thing that is supposed to happen happened and knows how and how much of what's supposed to happen happened, this gives it the ability to stop making what needs to happen happen and give corrective actions to make the happening as close as to what's supposed to happen. So if the action that happened isn't the same that should happen, the controller gets an error being the difference between what happened and what should have happened, this error is corrected by making happen whatever needs to happen to bring the happened value back to what's supposed to happen.

Does anyone have experience with applying to Oxford? It says on their site that I'm supposed to write a research proposal in the application. But isn't that something you work out with an advisor who has extensive experience in the field? I do have interests, but not a concrete research proposal. I'll need to do a literature review for that.

Post your contact info so we can get married.

>>12608695
exactly the same here, just randomly fucking about and having a 30 min meeting with my supervisor every two weeks. i bought a house with shared ownership though and only spend £500/month on rent etc so pretty comfy over all.

>>12615598
only if real woman and not fat

>>12615204
do a masters like most people do (UK), 1 year, project doesnt have to work, get experience with research, talk to people in all sorts of fields, lots of seminars to attend

>>12615631
i am a biological girl and not fat :)

aurafairy@protonmail.com

>>12615637
I already have a masters but still not sure which direction to take.

Australia
No, but too early to say much
None because I'm "self-funded" doing it part-time while working full-time as a research scientist (75k/year). No expenses though of course and work would cover 50% of the cost of any incidentals

>>12615648
which country/uni you at?

>>12615702
US. Can't post uni but I graduated undergrad :) I'm happy to exchange information over email.

>>12615718
Some /sci/duck is gonna be part of a trucker's skin suit.

>>12615745
I doubt anyone here is a trucker. I'm also a white belt in Taekwondo.

>>12609885
>unto an age of hopelessness and despair
The current era is the most prosperous in the history of humanity.

>>12604768
>where are you doing your PhD (country)
UK
>whats your stipend
15k STFC/EPSRC
>do you regret doing your PhD
Absolutely not, but I started in October and I feel like I've done basically nothing. I don't understand how people are managing to work during lockdown.

>>12604768
I'm looking into getting a PhD for Physics, maybe even Astrophysics, but I'm getting a heavy case of Imposter Syndrome about my capabilities, even with my grades being pretty good and me actually like the subject matter. Is there any way that I can deal with this?

>>12616501
>Is there any way that I can deal with this?
no

>>12616170
UK stipends are a fucking travesty.

>>12604768
US, RI
No but I can't wait to finish this shit
35k

>>12615668
Mate how does that work? Surely you'd be too busy with a full-time job to juggle a part-time PhD on top of that

Where did you find that picture, OP?

>>12617258
Flexitime. I have a recurring "work from home" day to dedicate towards PhD work.
At the moment everyday is work from home though.

>>12604768
UK London, Econ PhD.

First poster hit the nail on the head >>12605472, constantly feel like I’m LARPing and other people are cringing at my research topic behind my back

>>12608558
damn anon, thats not a lot of money

Paris, France
No
34k after taxes

>>12618103
Idk I'm surrounded by people who are actually competent and I'm fully aware that the volume and quality of my work is just objectively lower. It's not impostor syndrome if you're actually shit. Getting older has hammered away most of my ambition along with delusions of grandeur so I don't really mind as much anymore.

>>12617175
Brown?

>>12604768
Finished recently. USA mid level state university in the midwest. Phd experimental physics. Got out in 5.5 years. Stipend was like 25k/year or so after taxes. Was it worth it? I guess now that I have a professional R&D gig making 150k/year. But it is clear as day working with people from top level schools the education was lacking. I am doing a lot of self study to keep up.

>>12619268
yeah

>>12619419
How do you like it there? I applied for math and I’m talking to a professor of interest in the coming weeks. I hope that will be enough.

>>12619431
It's fine. Providence is really boring for me but if you don't have any issues with small cities or just don't go out you shouldn't have any problems with it. I've heard the applied math dept is really good but I don't know about the math one. Good luck on your application.

>>12611480
>Sweden
>fuckhigh taxes
>relatively low wages

Yes, but taxation covers the costs childcare, schools, higher education, healthcare, so you're better off in most cases. Having child in the UK is absurdly expensive. £27k for undergrand degree, and so on.

I'm so fucking glad I didn't fall for the PhD meme. If you're thinking about doing a PhD, think about what job you actually want to have after graduation. Unless you're set on pursuing academia, you don't really need one.

Most industry jobs that require a PhD will also take people with sufficient industry experience. When evaluating if you need a PhD for your desired job, consider if you could work your way into that position in industry over a similar 5 year time period. In most cases you can.

Industry also gives you a chance to see if you actually like the work as a profession. Even if you're set on doing a PhD, consider doing 1-2 years in industry in between. It'll change your perspective.

For me personally, I graduated with a combined BS/MS in 2016. I intended to get a PhD, but I saw a lot of people get fucked over by the system and basically treated as slaves, so I bailed on that. I got an industry job paying 75k. In 3 years I had been promoted into a PhD level role and I was making 110k. At that point I realized I didn't want to continue doing wet lab work and I moved into computational science. If I had gone with the PhD, I would still be there slaving away for some tiny stipend.

>>12604768
UK
Nah, I get free money to run a few calculations every day and read/write papers, and I got given a good project.
£16.5k

>>12620240
A healthy, single guy moving to Sweden for a PhD wouldn't be able to take advantage of any of those.

>>12621239
wrong

>>12620510
fuck i wish i was american

Can /sci/ give an anon some advice?
I applied to for a PhD position at a top 50 university and got through two rounds of vetting. Now the prof wants to meet on Zoom. It's the first position I've ever applied for. Here's the catch, the work is mostly experimental and on a topic that I'm not particularly interested in. My expertise is in computational mechanics and that's where I'd like to focus. Now, I'm from a shithole and the monthly salary is more than what an engineer with no experience in my country (assuming I could even get a job in this economy) makes in 2 years. Also, if I don't find a position abroad in the next couple months then I'll have to do military service for at least a year and a half.

What should I do? Should I look at the position as just a job and forget about my interests? I don't want to be in school forever and do postdoc after postdoc, trying to find something I'd like to make a career out of, so this will probably be my first and only PhD.
Or should I wait and do the military service and try to get a position abroad then? How much will getting a PhD in an experimental field limit my chances at computational jobs?

>>12623256
This is the kind of decision you'll need to make yourself. It does sound like you've already got a decent idea of what the pros and cons of each option are. Regardless, I'll give you my two cents on some things.

>the work is mostly experimental and on a topic that I'm not particularly interested in. My expertise is in computational mechanics and that's where I'd like to focus.
Doing a PhD in something you're not interested in is generally not considered a good idea. Especially when both the topic and the methods are not what you want. To get a decent track record you need to be motivated and self-driven, which is difficult when you have no passion. Of course some people can make it work, but a PhD isn't usually lucrative enough to be worth it if you really hate the work.

It may or may not be the case that you can do some computational work on the side, most projects nowadays have some computational element to them. Simultaneously, there is no guarantee that this will be possible. The advisor probably has a specific job he needs done, and if you give the impression that you'd rather be doing something else he might just not take you.

>the monthly salary is more than what an engineer with no experience in my country (assuming I could even get a job in this economy) makes in 2 years
I don't know where this position is, but it's worth noting that PhD stipends often don't leave you with a lot of savings opportunities. They're designed to allow you to subsist in that country. So while it's maybe more money, there's a decent chance you'll live hand-to-mouth and come out no richer anyway.

Of course, doing a PhD in another country builds connections that make it easier to get employment there later down the line.

>How much will getting a PhD in an experimental field limit my chances at computational jobs?
It won't limit your chances, but it won't improve them by as much as spending an equivalent amount of time and effort on computational work.

>>12623256
>>12623348
Regarding the military service, a year and a half isn't all that much on the scale of a lifetime. Depending on the country, a PhD will take anywhere from 3-6 years (or longer if things go bad). Signing yourself up for something that takes 6 years, doesn't interest you and doesn't lead to outcomes you'd be interested in just to save 1.5 years doesn't sound like the best idea.

On the other hand, PhD employment in the sciences usually isn't rigid. A lot of people from experimental fields go on to do computational work anyway, and if you can gather the computational skills and experience to convince employers you know what you're doing you'll be able to get jobs that have no direct relation to your PhD. So even if you do go through with it that doesn't mean you won't be able to get the job you want afterwards, just that your experimental PhD might not provide a huge amount of additional value.

>>12612185
i don't degrade myself by going to chapel hill :D

>>12623348
>>12623416
Thanks for the response anon.
>Depending on the country, a PhD will take anywhere from 3-6 years (or longer if things go bad)
I already have a master's so it's probably going to be in the range of 3-4 years.
>Doing a PhD in something you're not interested in is generally not considered a good idea
This is what worries me. If I'm going to spend 3 years of my life on research then I want to do something that excites me. I'm not too hung up on the methods, I'd jump at a chance to do something really cool, whatever the methods involved.
>I don't know where this position is, but it's worth noting that PhD stipends often don't leave you with a lot of savings opportunities.
Based on cost of living in that city, I'm guessing I'd be able to save something around $1000-1500 a month, which is a shitload in my country. I could buy a small apartment with those savings if I return.
>It won't limit your chances, but it won't improve them by as much as spending an equivalent amount of time and effort on computational work
Yeah, usually if you want a highly-paid job then you have to stick with something and become really really good at it.

My gut tells me to reject the offer if I get the position, but if I do the military service and in 2 years (when I'll be 28) I can't get a position abroad then I'll regret it for the rest of my life.

>>12609421
second

>>12619364
>Phd experimental physics
What field?
>>12619515
>Providence
Try living in Palo Alto...

>>12625085
>Palo alto
Fucking hell mate. That place sucks balls. I'd rather live in oakland

>>12625168
Yeah, me too. It's boring af. Sigh

>>12606956
>Ca
>36k
rip man sorry

>>12625196
Yes, kill me

I'm a business undergrad studying Information Systems and compsci. Cant wait to make 70k-6fig after 4 years of an easy curriculum. Sorry you guys have to endure 7+ years of hazing for the privilege to publish

>>12625210
>70k-6fig
That's not a lot...

>>12625085
Cryogenic device physics. Quantum computing meme. Shit was a joke. Academics can't make the technology I did research on work for shit. My group had a bunch of lazy 9-5 ers and a lot of internal politics. Advisor literally keeps giving the only woman in the group peoples samples because it makes him look good. She has contributed jack shit to the groups success but gets all the flashy results.

>>12625420
>Cryogenic device physics
Ha-ha, same field. I am glad you do what you like more now.

>>12625212
Thats far above the medium wage

>>12625210
Oh man, its me in the picture :(

>>12608507
Just tough it out and play the game. You actually have a shot at getting tenure in Greece while the UK will milk you for 2 postdocs before you end up in a McJobs

>>12604768
>Austria
>Just enrolled in network security
>no stipend, but I promised an assistant position. No idea about the salary, i didn't ask

I plan to finish it in 3-4 years, because I am 32 years old. I am not able to work in the industry because of autism, so I am happy.

>>12607830
which uni? do they teach in english?

>>12625571
>Comparing yourself to truck drivers and waiters

>>12625730
What the fuck is wrong with you? Get a real job you retard.

>>12625997
Imagine wasting years of your life on some "disruptive mobile app" made up by some marketing idiots.

>>12626061
To be honest many research projects are also kind of bullshit. Not that the data is faked or anything, just that half the time the answer to "why should anyone care about what I do" is highly optimistic and simplified to say the least. The big-picture impact of the research question is often poorly understood by even the researchers themselves, who just try to paint results as interesting to get published, get funding and keep the lights on. If funding applications were to be believed we'd have cured cancer and have unlimited energy by this time next year. Academics don't actually need to care about the practical application of their research for the most part, even in highly applied fields, so the "could be"s are free to stack up.

So instead of a "disruptive mobile app" you'll get to work on "novel approach to modelling ass-bending dynamics in organometallic polymers with potential applications to increasing efficiency of solar energy conversion" which sounds better but the aim or both projects is actually just to keep the people behind them employed.

>>12626061
The retard in >>12625730 is not going to be able to retire at 68 even under the best of circumstances. The faggot's going to be bitching in the media about how his pension is too low to survive despite the fact that people warned him and there are countless cautionary tales.

You failed at school and your career, the best you can do is to not fail at life too.

>>12626334
What are going to do when you retire, enjoy your prostate cancer? It is better not to work when you are young and still have many options to enjoy your life and still sane and clear mind, instead of wasting it on your employer.

>>12606351
just lie that you don't have a phd if you want lower level jobs bro

>>12627591
>explain this 5-year gap in you CV, please

>>12627691
I did some independent research while taking care of my elderly father.

>>12627691
>self employed
>employed at a now defunct/out of business company
>studied/worked abroad in X country where it would be particularly difficult to get records

man its literally that fucking easy if you just a lie, a resume isn't a fucking legal document. Just don't claim to have any licenses that you can actually get in legal trouble for like impersonating a doctor and you'll be ok

>>12627691
This, a gap will fuck you up. There was a thread on reddit where an employer documented the resumes he got for a manual labor job. Shit wasn't pretty.

>>12629379
Is there a link to said thread? Would be interesting.

On a related note, how fucked am I if I drop out of my PhD? The situation has gotten untenable over the last year and I can't really take much more of this.

>>12604768
>poland
>no i think
>2100 pln per month, more or less

>>12626551
You dumbass manchild companies have policies to fire anyone over 60 asap that's there are so many countless warnings about "not wasting your 20s"

Have fun dying in the gutter with the refugees because you're too dumb to realize that you already missed your shot and your prof. is just using you for literal slave labour.

Protip to all other Anon's in this thread as well: if your professor doesn't respect you enough to pay your grad stipend then he definitely won't respect you enough to recommend you to his network or even write a half decent letter of recommendation for you.

>>12629882
PhD dropouts are more common than you think. Especially dropping out for financial reasons is good enough, but even saying you just realized you don't enjoy research won't raise too many eyebrows in an interview panel either. Obviously the faster you do it the better and the ideal outcome is to negotiate a Masters degree out of it and you might even end up better off than collegiates who graduate.

The absolute worst case scenario is to burn through all your PhD funding and you have nothing to show for it. That would completely end any kind of professional career you had hoped to build.

>>12629977
It's a long story but some shit happened that was out of my control and then covid fucked the rest (experimental PhD). I could probably still Masters out, though I already have a master's degree. I'm at the point where I need to apply for a funding extension and I'm wondering whether I should just leave instead. I'm currently kind of at sea with the shore nowhere in sight which makes it hard to keep swimming.

>>12630055
Yeah covid fucked over a lot of researchers making your situation even more sympathetic.

Do you have any publications out yet? If you are at two I would keep going if I were you, otherwise I would Masters out and spend the time applying for jobs instead.

>>12609795
5-10 pages explaining what the fuck you want to do and how. Don't worry you will change it, maybe a lot, during your first year for it to become your actual research proposal before actually starting your thesis.
But yes it means you should have already some topic in mind.
Look up "initial research proposal"

>>12608507
Unless you have sunk in a lot of time already, I would quit and look for a better place. See this as a lesson in doing your research not only in lab, but also during job/PhD hunt.

>>12630075
There are four publications I'm on but not as first author. There's one more such that's currently in a submission loop. I've got a first-author paper that is basically done and just needs a polishing of the manuscript but that hasn't been submitted yet and has been severely delayed. Then there's two more projects where I won't be first author that also haven't been written up. There's a further project which I was hoping to get an additional first-author paper out of but I don't think that will happen.

I've done a bunch of things, just not enough that would be possible to attribute to me as a project. It's very hard to write a thesis from this kind of shit, that would require projects that I could claim more ownership over rather than just providing shitty figures for the SI.

>>12630135
You appear to have done an extremely large amount of work for other people. I guess it doesn't help to dig into why you did that, but yeah you can't squeeze a coherent thesis out of one first author manuscript. A lot of that depends on your contributions to the other papers. If you are second author on another you can write about your contributions in the preface, if it's large enough it will be fine.

I don't think I can give you give good advice. Something to think about is what your h-index would be when you graduate. Being on that many papers is good for your early career especially if you can hit 5-10 as a young postdoc, but it all depends on how fast you can get 2 more first authorships on a coherent topic if you get an extension.

>>12625688
>You actually have a shot at getting tenure in Greece while the UK will milk you for 2 postdocs before you end up in a McJobs
Is this true?

>>12629882
found it
>https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/kv7jth/oc_sorting_through_1016_resumes_for_8_warehouse/
Dude actually explains why people with gaps have their CVs thrown in the trash.

>>12630326
Thank you.

>>12630287
Of course it is.

Nepotism aside, countries always prefer to appoint natives as faculty. Add to that that the entire anglosphere is extremely oversaturated, your chances of getting faculty in your home country is way higher than in a foreign country. The entire idea behind exchange is that you actually go back and teach the knowledge you picked up locally. Your chances in a foreign country were always low.

>>12630078
>what the fuck you want to do and how
A PhD research proposal takes a lot of experience though, you have to know the field. I thought this was the responsibility of the supervisor? That's generally how it is in Europe. Is the initial research proposal something peculiar to the UK?

>>12630349
I don't know where in Europe you're from, but in Germany you have to write a proposal at most universities as well.

Of course you need to have a research topic in mind and experience in the field. A PhD isn't just extended coursework.

>>12630326
I skimmed the thread, but he doesn't really explain shit about gaps, this was the only thing he had to say:

>Gaps / Job Hopping: any adult who changes jobs every 6-18 months is not a long-term hire. There was a huge physical labor shortage in our area so COVID was not a good excuse for 6+ month employment gaps. Most of these went into the 'maybe' pile and I never got to them. They were rejected outright if it seemed like the person was getting fired.

Job hopping is not the same as not working for a year

>>12630363
>Of course you need to have a research topic in mind and experience in the field. A PhD isn't just extended coursework.
The research topic isn't necessarily decided by you, but rather the group/PI you apply to. My experience was more "Hi, you're advertising a research project that sounds interesting to me, can I be a part of it" rather than "Hi, here's a research topic for 3+ years I'd like to propose to you and do in your lab". The PIs had a specific idea for getting a student to certain work in a certain topic, of course with some wiggle room and chances for the student to pursue investigations of their own making down the line, but to begin with the research question was set by the PI.

Not that many people have significant enough experience to just come up with actually realistic, relevant and detailed research plans before they begin, even if you did a Master's project on the same topic.

>>12630326
>Definition of “Poor Interview”

>Negative comments about former employers
>Issues with prior management that were poorly explained
>weird personality

I kind of get it if you go on a tirade or badmouth everyone you've ever worked for, but shitty management is definitely a thing and surely an explanation for why you left your previous job. Especially when the guy seems to auto-discard applications for "job hopping".

>>12630347
>countries always prefer to appoint natives as faculty
The dozens of chinese looking people I've seen as US and UK university faculty beg to differ.

>>12630439
You are talking about structured graduate schools (which is both new and rare compared to unstructured PhD candidates).

Those are usually pre-funded, competative and more like research positions. Most students in Germany still do unstructured PhDs where they give a professor a vague proposal. If it isn't completely retarded the Prof. invites you to his group and then you write a funding proposal together or he diverts other funds to your project if he really likes your idea.

You do need to be well read up in the literature and have a good topic in mind. Even at structured positions it will be clear if you've never done research in the field. Don't bother applying if you fucked around in your masters and didn't get a publication out.

>>12630502
I mean citizens more than natives, but like I said it's preference not a rule. One of the biggest reasons is that "natives/citizens" have proficient local language skills meaning they have had more opportunities to get teaching experience on their CV's which believe it or not is the biggest differentiator between equally qualified researchers for junior faculty positions.

>>12630472
If you have no people skills to deal with shitty managers there's a hundred candidates waiting in line to replace you.

>>12607973
>>12608561
Found the high school dropout lmao

>>12630517
What if you want to branch out into another sub-specialty in your field?

Another thing, would you say that structured PhDs are better than unstructured?

>>12630541
Read a recent review article in the field and propose something based off that to a professor with expertise in the field. Don't aim for university prestige aim for relevance of the research group to your interest. Professors ignore you if your topic is not relevant to them. I also had the experience that shittier professors tried to get you to apply for external funding before they invite you.

Unstructured is a more traditional PhD experience and definitely the one to go for if you care about academia (and most of the top schools only do this). Structured can have benefits (larger networks, more funding), but is more of a corporate culture especially if your position ends up being at a national lab.

>>12630568
thanks

>>12630568
>and most of the top schools only do this
Not sure where that comes from, but my most of the projects I applied for in Oxford and Cambridge were what you would define as structured. That may have something to do with the fact that the topics were all very applied science.

>>12630607
Was talking about Germany

>>12630607
>but my most of the projects I applied for in Oxford and Cambridge were what you would define as structured
Where are these advertised? Their websites only list the courses.

>>12630568
>Don't aim for university prestige aim for relevance of the research group to your interest
I've heard this multiple times but the big names like MIT, Cambridge and Caltech are just too alluring to pass up if you have a chance. Like, how awesome would a PhD from MIT look on your resume? It's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Am I dumb for thinking like this?

>>12630685
Not an easy question to answer. Some junior people at top tier universities are clueless (the universities have too much funding). If you get a top tier adviser at a top uni there is no reason not to go there. Just be willing to work on their topic and not have time for carving out your own ideas.

>>12630685
Does the university's name actually matter? Most of the PhD work is self study, so the name and publications of your supervisor should be more important as a quality indicator. And if your goal is just to impress an HR lady with a CV, you can always take some online certificate with a famous university name on it in one month.

>>12630729
>And if your goal is just to impress an HR lady with a CV, you can always take some online certificate with a famous university name on it in one month.
I don't think anyone will take this seriously. Sure they'll count it as a qualification for whatever the certificate is, but it won't make you a Harvard grad in anyone's eyes. Of course, this doesn't stop the big-name places from selling these courses to people desperate to get Harvard on their CV in any way possible.

>>12630729
>Does the university's name actually matter?
It itself might not, but it just so happens that the best profs are in the best schools anyway. Top schools also have better benefits for students. Harvard gives 1000$ to each Physics PhD for conference travel a year, for example.

>>12630701
>Some junior people at top tier universities are clueless (the universities have too much funding).
They might be new and not experienced with leading the group but that doesn't mean they have no research ideas or are bad scientists. It is incredibly hard to get these jobs and they must have done something amazing to get there. They will also give you way more direct guidance as opposed to more senior profs.

>>12630685
If you don't want to stay in academia/research, the institution's reputation is more important. For example, a lot of physics PhDs transition to finance at the end of it, and I doubt Goldman Sachs cares that Boulder, Colorado has the best research going on in your field, if they see Stanford PhD that's going to mean more to them.
In academia though, the reputation truly doesn't matter. Once you're in the PhD you realize how much people talk about certain groups and not schools, except when they're referring to multiple groups at one school. Of course, these places are going to have better resources overall, but you can still have a bad PI at MIT. What matters most is your PI's connections and ability to get you into the field you're joining (for academia). And if you're going into a highly specialized field, there's a really good chance that the top schools don't have the top groups.

Of course, the best case scenario is to be in a great group at a big-name school. The hard decision comes when you have the choice between a good/new group at a top school versus a top group at a mediocre school. This was the choice I faced, and I ended up going with the better school but for a lot of various reasons.

>>12630877
No, look I know what you mean, but this

>It is incredibly hard to get these jobs and they must have done something amazing to get there.

just isn't true. Getting a temp contract is the easiest time you will ever have to get associated with a top school. The departments can afford to hire a lot post docs and research fellows.

The problem is they often get these people on faculty lists for funding or tax reasons and then they have to advise PhD students. And here you can get really shitty and ambitionless advisors (I don't want to say a lot of these are diversity hires, but honestly looking at their CVs it is difficult to understand how they got hired at all). I've seen a few of these people in action and it's not pretty. Example they struggle to pull in funding and advertise a shitton unfunded positions by relying on the university reputation. They ignore their students until they can produce a manuscript for them to stick their name on and they are clueless about the work during review rebuttals (unlike quality professors who really shine at this aspect). Most of their students dropout without finishing, but since they took the shotgun approach and accepted anyone desperate for the brand uni name they will get at least a few extremely high quality students who produce something.

The real problem with all this is that even if you graduate, you are unlikely to graduate into a good network to find your next job.

A junior associate professor is fine, just make sure you look at their CV and Google Scholar to see if they're worth a shit first. You'd be shocked to see how many people at Cambridge aren't.

>>12630870
>>12630870
>Top schools also have better benefits for students. Harvard gives 1000$ to each Physics PhD for conference travel a year
This is super low...I'm at a shitty top 500 European school and we get 6k p.a. for research visits and virtually unlimited funding for conferences (as long as you actually publish snd present a proceeding we get money from the national lab association).

You have a point though I think you can build a better network at a top uni. I came here because my advisor is a Nobel laureate, but I quickly realized he is literally the only researcher worth a damn here.

>>12631236
I'm not sure he's right. I'm at a US uni that's comparable to Harvard and we get $500/term ($2k/yr) for just travel, although you can get a ton more from your PI or from applying for extra travel funding (which is almost always given).

>>12631055
>I ended up going with the better school but for a lot of various reasons
And? Do you think you made the right decision?
>>12631179
> just make sure you look at their CV and Google Scholar to see if they're worth a shit first. You'd be shocked to see how many people at Cambridge aren't.
Weird, I thought Cambridge only took the cream of the crop.
So how do you tell if a professor is good? H-index?

>>12631325
Yeah I'm sure they get money from their PIs too, but on the subject of money stipend/salary is another thing to consider. The crappier universities know they have to pay more to get quality students. I strongly weighed my current position against one at RWTH Aachen, but my offer there (and as far as I could tell the majority of PhD positions there) offered 60% of my current salary. I was engaged already by that time so overall I'm happy I took the pay rise it was just far more practical than the brand name school and it made my life way easier than some of my friends who are still struggling and even need to burrow money from their parents. My Prof. also has a very strong network with the top university profs all over the world. But yeah, it's not the same as actually attending those universities. I think you meet far more high quality researchers there.

In short if you have carved out a little niche for yourself and some people in the field know your name then your university isn't too relevant, but if you have no idea what you want to do there is little reason not to aim for top universities if you have a shot at getting in.

>>12630472
If the company has shitty management, and the candidate says they can't deal with shitty managers, that's a practical reason to disqualify the candidate! Some jobs are in fact just bad places to work, and the interviewer knows it.

>>12631385
>Weird, I thought Cambridge only took the cream of the crop.

For undergrad they do. The research world is different. You will find a lot of top profs agglomerate there, but also a lot of shit mixed in

>So how do you tell if a professor is good? H-index?

In order: prizes (the big ones), grant awards and h-index (relative to people in the field)

>>12631419
We live in an economy of oversupplied, immigrant flooded labour so any minor chip in your otherwise perfect profile is enough to disqualify you for a position.

Even HR at top companies trash CVs for the most arbitrary reason imaginable (I've seen "not using this year's most popular CV template" as a reason).

>>12631385
>Do you think you made the right decision?
As of now, yes. I'm having the pretty typical "am I sure this is right for me?" thoughts, and it's really reassuring to basically have a good position lined up should I choose to want to just go for the money.
Like I said, other reasons factored into it as well. Location was big, and joining a new vs. established lab was a factor. So there's generally going to be a lot of things that contribute to where is best for you.
>>12631385
>how do you tell if a professor is good?
A lot of ways. Check their group website, see where they publish their papers, how many students they have vs. how old the lab is (new labs can be small, but established ones will generally be bigger unless they don't have the funding). Look up grants that they have and where their alumni ended up going, if they post this. h-index is another metric but it can be misleading, basically if it's good then the prof is for sure doing good research but if it's not great then that doesn't necessarily mean the contrary.

>>12631443
Perfect is subjective. If your prospective employer wants a brainless drone who will work for peanuts forever, your CV doesn't mean shit.

>>12631419
That's retarded. You could apply that to anything, there would be no legitimate reason for leaving a job. I'd understand it if someone was complaining about a shitty thing that comes with the job, like threats of violence as a security guard, but shitty management is not a necessary or unavoidable part of any job and is entirely within the employer's control.

>>12631444
checked and thanks
What would you typically consider a good h-index?

>>12631459
>Perfect is subjective.

Of course it is. I'm not taking HR's side, I fucking hate them. It is just the reality there are 1000s of CVs coming in to whatever job you apply to.

>>12631467
20 is good for young associate, 40 is good for full profs

>>12631461
Sure, they could fix it. I'm just saying, as a practical matter, they won't.

>>12606184
How are you doing this...
mc donalds pays more than that

and how did you even get a position, everyone I know has 2+ masters STEM from top tier schools, professional and academic research, publications but wont even get to the first interview round for a phd in neuroscience/psych/computer science

>>12631482
cool
You know it's funny, I just checked the h-indexes of professors in my field at Cambridge, and none were as high as my own supervisor at a middle eastern university (a little over 40).

>>12631467
Depends on the field. Some fields have it so that everyone and their mother ends up on the paper.

My current advisor has an h-index of 85. Previous one was around 40, due to being 20 years younger. I had a much better time with the more junior dude, since he actually gave a shit. Department big dog has an h-index of something like 180. I wouldn't stare at it too much.

>>12631511
It's a hypercompetative world Anon

>>12631514
As we said earlier some of the Profs at those top unis are shit. The reputation of those schools is held up by particular research groups.

>>12609359
its abject poverty,

you're living on the street or sucking dick for a room,

unless you have significant cash from parents/cocaine or living at home.

you need 60-120k income to get a mortgage, and could probably rent comfy at 50k.

Cleaning the floor at mcdonalds for 20h a week will get you close to 15k.

The UK ranks DEAD last for phd salary, even brazil and france pay more.

>>12609397
>700
>place of your own

the minimum rent for a one bedroom apartment is £1700. thats witha single prison style room, with the toilet and kitchen in the same square.

a room with a single bed is maybe 850...then with bills and taxes that 1300. T

>>12631568
Nah, it practically means you share a house and don't eat out too much. Outside of London you can get a room for around £500 per month, another £500 covers food and the rest is for whatever else comes up.

So you're not on the street but you're in shared accommodation eating beans and not building any savings which also isn't great.

>>12631589
>outside of london

>just move to the 3rd world

>>12631603
London is the most third-world place in the UK, at least the areas you can afford to live in as a student. UK's best universities aren't in London anyway. Also you don't pay council tax as a student and you sure as shit don't need to put £500 into monthly utilities bills so I don't really know what you're on about.

>>12631568
Do toptier unis in the UK offer significantly more than 18k pounds or is the low stipend a country-wide issue? If not then fuck that, I don't care about university prestige. I'm not moving there to be a research slave for Bongs. How do they get away with this?

>>12631649
The standard offer everywhere is something like £15k, and a bit more in London I think.

It isn't significantly higher anywhere by default. You can, of course, get funding from various sources. Some of these pay out more, probably up to something like £25k (just a number I threw out there) but these kinds of things are kind of rare and heavily situational.

>>12631669
>£15k
literally hand to mouth

>Brazil
>no
>2200 monthly BRL, which is about 400 USD
It may seem low but purchasing-power-wise it's equivalent to about 2k USD per month when it comes to stuff like rent, food and basic expenses. Minimum wage is around 1100 BRL for comparison.
It's cool, my advisor is nice and I've been doing some progress. I haven't left my house for weeks now.

>>12631694
Yes. As a PhD student in the UK you're in a position somewhere between a student and an employee and you get the worst of both worlds. On one hand, you're considered a student because you're paid a stipend to subsist on, not a salary to actually live on. You get no job benefits, although as a student there are some perks. Also when you apply for jobs your PhD period isn't counted as work experience, so you usually start from the same rung of the ladder as someone with a Master's.

On the other hand, most UK PhDs don't actually include significant coursework, and you're expected to put in the standard 40h/week minimum. So practically you're just working. The only "good" part is that there's usually a pretty hard deadline at 4 years, so your PI can't milk you in perpetuity like in the US.

>>12605472
>>12616501
Implying you are good enough to have imposter syndrome

This thread (and a couple others before it) was unironically, life-changingly informative. /sci/ is one of the best boards on 4chan desu.
A big thank you to all anons (YOU) who share their experience here.

>>12631764
>being this delusional
There is no hope for you

>>12631781
What are you babbling about?

>>12631800
>implying I am being infantile when you have such childish delusions
Cope.

>>12631835
dude, learn to shut the fuck up

>>12631850
>dude
>Ok bro like duder bro I see what you are doing bro.
You are probably some capitalist shill. Why exactly do you millions people to live off nothing while one person rakes in millions?

>>12631880
take meds

>>12631886
>take meds
The final cry of a destroyed man.

>>12631764
/sci/ is also one of the most schizo-infested boards, as you're finding out. Ignore them, arguing with literal madmen isn't really worthwhile.

>>12631649
the highest tier theoretical neuroscience and AI position at uks highest university UCL pays 23k tax free, thats like 26-27k, which is less than a bus drivers starting salary.

You need minimum 140IQ, and ivy tier undergrad STEM + a ivy masters at the cost of 30k,

then compete against 4000 other people for the two places they have and get that 23k...which you cannot afford to rent a room on in london so you will be commuting 2h from out of the city.

>>12631948
clamped

>>12632042
I blame PhD students for this. UK universities only get away with modern day slavery because thousands of retards are willing to throw away the best years of their lives for a fancy piece of paper with the university's logo on it.

>>12632123
I met a whore with one very similar to it, she was 35, unmarried, working a mid level business role, degree almost completely wasted...

like what the fuck

>>12632123
Students don't have all that much power to do anything about it. You're blaming the victims, like a good goy. The truth is that the UK government has been systematically driving the country head first into a wall for a long time now, and has been doing so in ways that are especially harmful to the young people there.

UK is completely fucked. Over the last decade university education has gone from £3k a year to £9k a year and keeps rising. Simultaneously, student support has become increasingly loan-based. So unless you have rich parents, you're going to be looking at very easily £50k in loans to graduate with a master's (which, by the way, has an interest rate of something like 5%). This is already a huge amount of money, but compared to somewhere like the US where you might expect to have earnings that allow you to actually pay that back, wages in the UK are not particularly high, with most graduate positions paying under £30k starting.

To make it worse, costs of living have absolutely skyrocketed. Rent in even modestly sized cities is similar to or even above what you'd pay in most capitals in Europe. A one-bedroom flat will be around £1000/month before bills and taxes. If you want to own a house you have to be a literal millionaire. London is twice as fucked when it comes to this. And remember, you're making shit money, paying relatively large taxes on it and already £50k in the hole. You're never going to build savings, much less own your accommodation.

And now with Brexit it's going to be even harder for anyone wanting to get the fuck out to move to the EU, since free movement is gone. Also they've tanked the rest of their economy.

>>12632267
what a fucking mess

>>12632267
Just live with your parents. You are not entitled to own property just cause you learned some useless information

>>12632411
Shut up, you fucking bootlicker.

>>12632447
>worker wanting to be a capitalist calling a socalist a bootlicker
Like clockwork