/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12591219
>interstellar expansion

we'll never get there unless we solve our terrestrial problems first.

>>12591219
Think of it as a natural failsafe to protect other life in the galaxy.

Do you want these chucklefucks expanding across the stars, doing the same shit on other living planets as they have done here? You know they would. You know they would destroy and kill everything on another planet if there was a profit in it. You know they would seed every viable planet with as many people as possible and let them breed uncontrollably without a backwards glance at any native life they wiped out.

The vast majority of Humanity are locusts. Those which aren't are an insignificant minority.

>>12591325

what are you even talking about? humans are probably the only species that can voluntarily opt out of the malthusian growth model.

>>12591219
The problem is that interstellar expansion is t possible for humans. It never will be. Our bodies are forever weaved into earths environment, and if/when we do manage to start modifying peoples’ genes we’ll only end up creating something unstable and short-lived. Maybe some future intelligent species will manage to get off this planet before the sun engulfs it, but it won’t be us. Our home is here, for better or worse.

>>12591343
>can
You have one word doing a lot of goddamn work here.

>>12591398
>>12591398
What a 70 IQ take. We could construct an interstellar vessel capable of getting humans to the nearest star system in a few generations within the next 50 years, just by using modern or near term technology. Orion type ships could reach speeds of light.

>>12591407

can and have.

>>12591415
If the guy you were responding to was 70 IQ then you are 65. The assumption of future technology solving the fundamental problem of the vastness of interstellar space is naive.

>>12591428
No we haven't.

>>12591222
>>12591325
>>12591398
>>12591434
Primitivists are imaginative enough to believe that somehow everyone will agree to go back to living in huts and abandon medicine and technology, but they're not imaginative enough to think we will reach interstellar expansion. It's nothing more than an useless reactionary LARP, not to mention they idolize a literal tranny schizo murderer. Even conservatives aren't this embarrassing.

>>12591434
>No we haven't.

white first world populations are falling below replacement

>>12591415
>muh can implies should
And those human passengers’ lives would be worse than any possible existence here on earth. Any children born in that environment would be more fucked up than the leftist trannies that our present highly artificial environment creates. They’d all commit suicide before they arrived.

>>12591450
I don’t think anyone will agree to go back. Ted doesn’t think so either. Infrastructure is a product of empire. Once clownworld falls apart we will downgrade out of necessity. Ted only advocates trying to speed the process up.

>>12591450

we don't have to go back. i'm not advocating primitivism, but its presence in popular culture is indicative of a larger problem. even i can appreciate it. people who live that way have control of their own lives.

>>12591434
>The assumption of future technology solving the fundamental problem of the vastness of interstellar space is naive
He didn't make that assumption at all, you can't read. I'm not sure I even agree with him

>>12591519
"We could construct an interstellar vessel capable of getting humans to the nearest star system in a few generations within the next 50 years, just by using modern or near term technology"
im gunna need mustard on that..
>>12591519
didnt he?

>>12591219
They make no sense or are defeatist. It's just another angle for getting people to not recognize their true nature. In all likely hood this is a controlled planet, life is everywhere, space isn't what people think, and or interstellar travel is much easier than it appears.

>>12591325
sad, but some would do as you say.

>>12591398
if the model is true and accurate people have about 5 billion years to solve the issue. The weaving part is nice to think about. The closest star beyond sun would be about 27,000 years of travel away with current tech. So when space ships are 1000 times faster, which is feasible in space, its only 27 years. The closest system with earth planet is 3 times that far I think.

What I don’t get is why is life a good thing? There’s clearly far more suffering than anything else, and the pleasure that does exist goes almost exclusively to a select few (wrong) people like the good looking, not even good people who deserve it. Seriously so many millions of years of development for what? So we can wageslave to make the lowest examples of our species wealthy?

>>12591653
suffering only happens within life to our knowledge anon. everything else is inanimately impartial and emotionally immaterial.
as much as inclined. no benefit for the universe by our expansion from our holding zones until we git gud.
>whats the beneficial point of expansion outside of its own sake.. yes that includes preservation and learning.
like the universe owes us learning shit about it.
>incedental byproducts, not the purpose.

>>12591673
What I meant was more like “why do WE consider life a good thing”
why do people hold that opinion, despite all the suffering that comes with being alive

>>12591678
Unironically genetic brainwashing. If humans were truly rational we would have gone extinct already due to suicide. We are just meant to keep on living no matter what. It's sad to say but our rationality has a limit and it's our genetic wiring.

>>12591219
Ironically, it will be growth monger and techno-utopian freemarket worshipper cultist worldview that will be the cause of humanity's total extinction.
a bunch of obscenely arrogant and gluttonous children tinkering with machines that are many orders of magnitude more complex than their primitive brains are capable of understanding...

>>12591686
>Ironically, it will be growth monger and techno-utopian freemarket worshipper cultist worldview that will be the cause of humanity's total extinction.
Good.

>>12591222
the only terrestrial problem we have is that we are still living on it.

GET ME OUT OF HERE GET ME OFF THIS NIGGER INFESTED ROCK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12591649
>people have about 5 billion years to solve the issue
Handwave
>So when space ships are 1000 times faster
Handwave
>which is feasible in space
Handwave

There is no amount of basic math that can make spaceships 1000 times faster. Also humanity has absolutely no chance of lasting billions of years.

>>12591325
That's why we need to upgrade to something better than basic humans. Transhumans, if you will.

>>12591222
Good point. Problem is primitivists oppose all the solutions to our issues that aren't "just destroy all the technology lmao".

>>12591219
>yet they think just because there's a couple bumps in the road to interstellar expansion we should just lay down and die?
Interstellar expansion won't save you from the heat death of the Universe.

OP here. I'm noticing a lot of really dumb ignorance in this thread, so allow me to clear up some common misconceptions:

1. We do not have 5 billion years. We have more like 500 million. That's about how much time it will take for the sun to get so hot liquid water will not be able to exist on Earth's surface. I don't need to explain why that's bad.

2. Genetic engineering is a very real deal. We could have started doing it with humans decades ago, if not for it being so taboo. These days we've got a lot of experience mucking with the genes of other lifeforms, and the code we're working with is the same as with all other organisms. We could be exterminating cancer and engineering geniuses right now if we really wanted to.

3. We already have most of the technology necessary for interstellar travel. We have powerful fission reactors, powerful enough we could accelerate ships to a significant percentage of the speed of light, and we can produce materials strong enough to hold an O'Neill cylinder together. The hard part about interstellar travel is supplying people for decades with enough oxygen, water, and energy, but that's not quite as difficult as it sounds, considering the first two can be recycled. But here's the real deal: we won't need to go to another star system for a long time. We're absolutely rolling in materials, energy, and space in our own system. We'll only really need to start travelling once we get close to Kardashev level 2. And that is a long way off.

OP here. I'm noticing a lot of really dumb ignorance in this thread, so allow me to clear up some common misconceptions:

1. We do not have 5 billion years. We have more like 500 million. That's about how much time it will take for the sun to get so hot liquid water will not be able to exist on Earth's surface. I don't need to explain why that's bad.

2. Genetic engineering is a very real deal. We could have started doing it with humans decades ago, if not for it being so taboo. These days we've got a lot of experience mucking with the genes of other lifeforms, and the code we're working with is the same as with all other organisms. We could be exterminating cancer and engineering geniuses right now if we really wanted to.

3. We already have most of the technology necessary for interstellar travel. We have powerful fission reactors, powerful enough we could accelerate ships to a significant percentage of the speed of light, and we can produce materials strong enough to hold an O'Neill cylinder together. The hard part about interstellar travel is supplying people for decades with enough oxygen, water, and energy, but that's not quite as difficult as it sounds, considering the first two can be recycled. But here's the real deal: we won't need to go to another star system for a long time. We're absolutely rolling in materials, energy, and space in our own system. We'll only really need to start travelling once we get close to Kardashev level 2. And that is a long way off.

>>12591451
Yet population growth as a whole continues.

>>12591868
>We have more like 500 million.
That's only 2,500 times longer than humans have currently existed on earth. Surely nothing bad could happen before we get the job done.
>Genetic engineering
Currently a meme and will continue to be a meme until it actually does work. You have no idea what can be done with it, you just hope that the things you want can be done with it.
>We already have most of the technology
No we don't.
>We have powerful fission reactors
That require multiple football fields worth of infrastructure to support.
>powerful enough we could accelerate ships to a significant percentage of the speed of light
Not really.
>and we can produce materials strong enough to hold an O'Neill cylinder together.
Fucking prove it.
>The hard part about interstellar travel is
There are a thousand hard parts, you picked the two easiest parts and hand-waved a third.

>>12591219
Primitivists wont stand against our weapons -- by definition. Of course we wont let life die out on this godforsaken rock. We will awaken the universe. We will genocide them before we let them stop us.

>>12591868
>1+1=rocket surgery
>uralllowIQ
>imsobased
speed of light being nearly enough for even local group travel
>expansion
fuckwit shut the heck up
and im lowwww iq..

again i pose the question, what does the universe gain from this shit deal viral mass escaping its containment.
we are ostensibly covid to the universe to use a shit analogy.
>sars wrapped in HIV

>>12591888
>Currently a meme and will continue to be a meme until it actually does work. You have no idea what can be done with it, you just hope that the things you want can be done with it.

It's not like we're already making massive genetic changes to organisms already. Oh wait.

>That require multiple football fields worth of infrastructure to support.

Have... have you seriously never heard of nuclear submarines? Or any other kind of micro reactors? Many reactors are more than powerful enough in terms of energy density to get you going real fucking fast. Now, there is the problem of efficiently directing that energy with propellant and all that, but what I'm saying is the reactor technology is already there.

>Fucking prove it.

I'm not talking about massive, 300 km long deals here, just cylinders the size of a large building. If you build the things in space, you would only need to have them withstand the forces of acceleration from the engines and the forces from their spinning, which need not be greater than the forces skyscrapers experience on Earth.

>There are a thousand hard parts

Interstellar travel boils down really only to three things: having engines efficient enough to get there in reasonable time, having an energy source to allow you to survive the journey, having a fulling recyclable chemical ecosystem, and being able to set up proper infrastructure once you get to your destination. These are all monumental tasks to be sure, but far from unthinkable.

>>12591868
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBnpUdS7lX4
>Dear science. The hovercraft was a solid start, shoulda stuck with it. Hoverboard, where the fuck is it?
You basically fell for lexus memes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOH15_pqWZ4
-song

curious as to the reply about local group travel and light speed expansion limitations

>you let me down

>>12591949
crispr really is the shit..
USA trials should be coming to some conclusions pretty soon. so promising its scary actually..
can confirm gene editing and treatment is not a fucking meme..

Nah , we like to think of ourselves as above animals but history has proven that in fact we follow natural therefore animalistic laws through our existence.

Imagine being such a retarded autist that your highest hope for humanity is drifting out into gay sterile void for all of eternity spreading human bs as far as possible

Thank God space doesn't actually exist

>>12591219

>>12591219
The goal of philosophies such as primitivism isn't to create meaningful change, it's to make losers whose lives doesn't matter worth jack shit in the fullness of history and culture think that they're visionaries doing something besides ideological masturbation. It's the same mentality behind conspiracy theorists who get off on thinking that they're the only one in the room with access to secret knowledge.

>>12591415
You dont need to go to nearest star. Space itself is the habitat. By all means drift to the next star over a 40.000 year period but i mean you dont need planets.

>>12591450
>embarrasing
Making a case based on public shame is embarrassing

>>12591649
27.000 years is fine. Just live in space.

>>12591653
>(wrong) people like the good looking
lmao the good looking are the only people that have a chance of saving us from the bad physiognomy psychopaths creating globohomo today

>>12591879
That's only possible because the people who allowed this graph to happen allowed the benefits of said graph to accrue to humans who have an r-selected reproductive strategy and they send foreign aid to countries which said humans occupy. Most of history is steady state homeostasis no population growth

>>12591219
Interstellar expansion. So putting lots of work and resources into living on a inhabitable planet is a good idea?

Put the sci-fi games down Steven.

There is nothing for us in space, technology is a trap.

>>12591222
Interplanetary expansion will solve terrestial problems as we will mine Helium-3 to power our fusion reactors, bring greater prosperity and freedom by building up space industry and we will take control of the climate and built up space habitats so that life can outlast earth and the stars themselves.

>>12591325
The only value that exist is conscious value.

>>12591398
>The problem is that interstellar expansion is t possible for humans.
I have a solution.

>>12591219
Primitivists are just edgy retards, if they would be honest in their beliefs they wouldn`t be here.

>>12592416
Space-based solar power, zero-gravity factories, asteroid mining, helium-3 and space laboratories. And by then space habitats will be a big industry.

>>12591653
>What I don’t get is why is life a good thing?
Most people don’t get to be born at all, ever. To see in that radiant impossibility only pointlessness, to see our experience as malignantly useless seems to me a bit camp.

>>12591853

>>12591931
>>12592208
>>12592425
>>12592426
This is so gay >>12592416 is right
>>>/wsg/3757830

>>12591219
At least primitivism doesn't try to feed Africa with endless and geometrically increasing aid.

>>12592528
Because they try to become like them.

>>12592533
Right...

>>12592541
Saudi-Arabia is still a quasi-feudal state. Have fun there, larper.

>>12591219
FUCK YOU fix this shit, or no space salvation for you

>>12592544
Saudi Arabia is a shithole filled with semitic desert dwellers. Medieval Europe is incomparable.

Oh, and feudalism is epic, bitch

>>12592557
>Oh, and feudalism is epic, bitch
Sure, anon, sure. Have fun larping as king or imagined peasant. And the little city you show did not operate under feudal system, but be the cause of its downfall.

>>12592549
I think I might currently be serving such a sentence

>>12592541
what brought about the dark ages?

>>12592595
Feudalistic living conditions have continuously existed until modern times in some places, and those places are infinitely better than any other society

>>12592636
Forgot pic from 1898

>>12592628
Collapse of sea trade due to piracy

>>12591219
Great post. Feel the same. Desire to build has disappeared, everyone just wants handouts. Forget wealth creation, they just want wealth transfer.

>>12592639
>>12592636
If you knew what you were posting then you would knew that the house you posted is a multiplpe-family house and that Bavaria in 1898 did not have peasants. Truth is that life 300 years and more ago, was more colourful than we imagine but also far worse as the aristocracy ruled with a iron fist and the best the paesants could hope for is to be ignored.

>>12592661
All that may be true, but it's still better

>>12591222
>>12591398
Wow the amount of retards on here shilling against interstellar expansion. They truly think most of the solar energy and mineral resources are on Earth, and that going to space would just be for funzies. No, the resources are in space. Everything’s out there, waiting for us to seize it.

For any technophiles left eat this blackpill right now. EAT IT NOW!!!!

>>12591853
You would extend the lifespan of life by several nonillions nonillions years though if you collect all the energy before it vanishes to the redshift and maybe there is hope. To built a basement universe, reversible computing and other technologies could save us from the killing clutches of entropy.

>>12592755
all that effort just to exist.
only to hear
>arewethereyet
>but why

>>12592684
You don`t have to go that far, middle class income/wage is stagnating since the 90s. We have to fix this shit. The best state the middle-class ever was, was in the 50/60s as the the disparity between rich and poor was not as strong. (I`m not convinced with your graphic as the early 20th century was the era of the oil barons and other monopolists, 1% of today has as much capital as the other 50% but in that era 1% had as much capital as 90%. Even worse were the aristocratic era in which the nobility, cleric had 99% of everything while 99% oinly shared 1& of all capital.) Still somethings are working out better, but we need to ensure that income creates wealth and not wealth creates wealth as this is stagnative and injust.

>>12591219

Grass is always green on the other side huh?
Let's put it this way if I gave you an almost perfect needle then told you there may or may not be a comparable needle in that massive mountain sized haystack over there you really think it's a good idea to go looking for it? Or alternatively I suppose you could just go make another needle from scratch just for the possibility that you will create a better needle despite having no experience with metal working so it would take you probably years of practice just to even be in the realm of creating such a needle. This is what the promise of space exploration ultimately amounts to 2 monumental tasks all for the sake of humanity jerking off their pea sized brains once again instead of just doing the practical sensible thing and not destroying the nearly perfect planet that was handed to them on a silver platter.

>>12592762
>>arewethereyet
if the goal is infinity, then this question will drive us eternally
>>but why
To search the possibilities, to explore the inner and outer spaces, to learn the cosmos.

>>12592779
Terraforming and planetary life are a meme. Space habitats are the true home for humanity. Dismantling the planets would offer us more material, space and energy then to live on the surface of a ball.
Then there is of course the notion that future humanity won`t need an atmosphere, food or biosphere but only energy to power its posthuman self.

>>12591450
ted was a based repression induced schizo

>>12591219
Even if we go interplanetary, the Sun will eventually die and kill everything in the Solar system, including all humans.
Even if we go interstellar and colonies nearby stars, those stars will eventually die and kill the humans around them.
Even if we go intergalactic, and conquer our whole local galactic cluster, all those stars will eventually die and kill all the humans in them
Even if we figure out how to artificially prolong life indefinitely and harness the Hawking radiation of black holes to survive after the death of the last stars, even those black holes will eventually dissipate and there will be total entropy.
Even if we somehow find a way to survive total entropy then the Universe will either stretch to the point that molecules and even atoms cannot interact with one another, or it will collapse in on itself in an inescapable singularity, or it will simply destroy it's own fabric over the eons; and all humans who are still alive when that happens will die.

There is no escape from death. It is the one immutable and unbreakable law of life. Anything that lives will also one day die. No matter who you are, no matter how rich you are, no matter what happens in your life; WE WILL ALL DIE. The human species was doomed to die before it even came into existence. The UNIVERSE was doomed to die before it came into existence. Trying to fight against the inevitable death of all things is a futile and stupid gesture.

Be glad that you were given a brief time to experience this beauty and wonder. Be glad that you were one of the infinitesimally few living things to be born, and even more privileged to be born intelligent and capable of pondering and understanding these things. You are blessed with innumerable gifts and to waste them on anything other than enjoying the time you have in this reality is a crime. Do not worry about the inevitable death of yourself and your species, focus on enjoying the time you have right now.

>>12591219
this is not primitivism

>>12592798
>repression
psychoanalysis isnt a science

>>12592845
There might exist a method to escape the end. But indeed all that know a beginning can't be infinite, it may be possible to simulate infinity but to live eternally may proof impossible. We should still try it, 'The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.'.
https://www.academia.edu/20962593/Creation_and_structure_of_baby_universes_in_monopole_collisions
>The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

>>12592872
If struggling against the inevitable death of everything is what makes you happy, and gives you meaning, then by all means pursue it. I'm just pointing out that for all the things wrong with primitivism (and some of the things it gets right), ignoring the inevitable end of life isn't one of them. Such concerns are meaningless ultimately. If you want to be opposed to primitivism, then you need a more concrete reason than "muh stranded on this rock."

>The autistic fantasy of a pathetic little boy

>>12592912
>For a period of several weeks in 1966, Kaczynski experienced intense sexual fantasies of being a female and decided to undergo gender transition.

>>12592912
>for only in that suit will he, like little Joey, feel alive. This is a return to the womb, without the embryo's prospect of a natal delivery. As if to emphasize this point, the actual position of the astronaut here shown, under working conditions, is on his back, the normal position of the foetus.
yeah, as it turns out joey wasnt the autist in the report after all.

>>12592861
A tranny who does not transition and doesn’t tell anyone about it is called a repressor.

>>12592872
What if I don't want to escape the end? What if the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega are engrained into the foundations of existence? Why would anyone but a sick, mentally ill, twisted soul want to fight against that?

>>12593013
>What if the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega are engrained into the foundations of existence?
Can you proof that? Or is there more?
>soul
Can you proof the existence of that?

>>12593013
That's the most redpilled realization of all.

Time is illusory. The Universe is without begining and end, what was, what is, and what will be, simply are.

>>12592596
underrated post

>>12592418
This. Interstellar expansion isnt even required. Just build thousands of O'Neal cylinders in orbit, dig holes in moons and pressurize them, build domes on mars, industrialize mercury. Could sustain humans for literally millions of years while interstellar travel is solved. Solar system colonization is just an engineering problem at this point.

>>12591219
If you haven`t realized, all of our challenges had a solution and for some reason they can be "defeated" by the current tech
"liberalism" is taking us back by hundreds of years and i don`t think that we would be able too survive another "2020" in 2040 if we keep giving money to people who refuse to sustain for themselves

Primitivism just surged because whites are trying to abandon their real >>12592639 self and try very hard to be autistic
You can have the best of both worlds, the most important thing is to respect the rules of life

>>12592549
>"Death penalty should be abolished because it is cruel!"
>Proceed to lock criminals for decades, even perpetuity sometimes
>"Hmmm.. also let's inject them this drug so they suffer even more!"

>>12592912
>>12592884
I have this recurring dream that is remarkably similar to the matrix, except instead of being stuck in a biogel blob capsule with energy being harvested in a sort of cool horrific cyberpunk dystopian alien future way, it's just that I'm stuck in a bathtub hooked up to VR brain interface and life support apparatus and paralyzed. Just rotting in some apartment complex, utterly helpless and enfeebled. And the worst of it is that in the dream I feel that I put myself there and wanted it at first, although I don't recall dreaming about that part. I just knew it. Sort of the same feeling as "I have no mouth but I must scream" but extremely boring and pathetic and utterly insignificant, wormlike, lacking anything that makes up an existence. Just horrific. Everybody must fight against this enslavement. Something wicked this way comes.
>>>/wsg/3758055

>>12593024
You will come to embrace the dualism represented in the swastika in time. All things come in time.

>>12591949
Micro reactors don't have the power and large reactors need more fuel and support.

>>12593074
All good* things come in time. I hope not all bad things come in time, but maybe that's part of dualism too. I sincerely hope not though. There's a lot of horrific shit that can happen if people don't get their act together

>>12592426
BASED BASED BASED BASED

Can you use winterizing insect DNA to convert vessels to hibernation state using the environment of space to perpetuate a body if needed. Other wise incorporate a charge into terrestrialised vessel, download branemap. And/or send through transceving

>>12592434
>Primitivists are just edgy retards, if they would be honest in their beliefs they wouldn`t be here.
Computer nerds should be euthanized. Their ideology of autistic transhuman fully automated gay space communism needs to be rooted out at the source by complete demoralization and blackpilling until none of them use the computer anymore and are completely deconditioned from using computers. I hope every one of you who hopes for the technological singularity to be reached and an AI god to be created within their lifetime so they can gain """"""eternal life"""""" gets so depressed that they kill themselves. You are a mortal threat to all that which is holy under the sun. You are a pit of vipers. DIE

>>12593162
Coping humancel

>>12593162
>gets called an edgy retard
>is an edgy retard in his reply
based.

>>12591450
What is more likely: advocating that humanity was more stable before civilization or that we're somehow traveling between stars?

>>12593183
>>12593197
It's all in minecraft guys, don't worry. Just being edgy for the lolz haha.

>>12593217
Was the state of humanity before civilization stable? Hunter-gatherer led a very brutal, short life and were ignorant about the forces that rule the world. On the other hand we already landed people on the moon, maintain a orbital station, have send machines beyond the planets and into the sun. The issue is that we are lacking economic powerress for space industralization. But as the costs fall and the need for rare metals and other materials like Helium-3 rise, space can be opened for the people.

>>12593244
I like this meme. People are laughing at AI and people who believe in AI now but when they will be processed into computronium I bet you they will stop laughing.

>>12593162
Anyway if you believe what the physicists say all life on earth will die in 500 millions years.

>>12591222
deflection asshole.
e.g. asteroid mining to make certain metals cheap as fuck, thereby ending questionable mining practices on earth. fuck off with your luddite bs.

>>12593276
I'd like to see how it would be cheap as fuck. Rocket launching will always be more expensive than airplanes, and making tons of materials descend from space also seems like a very expensive process. Maybe with futuristic technology but hoping for miracles is bad planning.

>>12593264
>"I won't get processed into computronium because muh Roko's basilisk said if I don't help to build it I will get processed into computronium, so I'm helping to build it."

>>12593263

just because everyone on earth does not want to go back to a pre-civilization lifestyle does not mean we have to accept every modern contrivance that comes along.

>>12593263
>But as the costs fall and the need for rare metals and other materials like Helium-3 rise, space can be opened for the people.

besides raw materials there's not much of interest in space for a long, long, long ways.

>>12593295
Zero-gravity factories, space-based solar-power/orbital mirrors, space laboratories, antimatter-production on mercury and of course all the infrastructure necessary to have the mining, the transportation, refining, security and living space. California began as a desert but a gold rush later and a century more and we see one of the biggest economies in the world. Same would apply in space. The mining will just be the snowball to cause the rush but not be its end. In fact space will be the end of planetary dominance as habitats around L4/L5 would be more adapted to the needs of this future economy.

>>12592208
No It's the other way around actually. Primitivists are not visionaries, they're just leaning on what was clearly more stable, which is humanity before agriculture. The ones who are visionary are people that think technology is going to solve all our problems. Which is a complete ideological masturbation and inhereltly
Also how is primitivism secret knowledge and thinking interstellar travel and gene editing is going to save us is not?

>>12592425
*chuckle* The thing is that one of those is real and the other is a figment of the imagination

>>12592434
We're here so we can take you guys with us

>>12593337
It's funny that they think something which is exoteric will end up guiding the destiny of humanity. Normies think that fully automated gay space communism is going to save everyone, but the elites plan to use that ideal as a means to alchemically transmute the human psyche from a living being with destiny and divine inspiration into an autistic mechanized robot as described here >>12592912 That is the esoteric half of transhumanism and the search for the fountain of youth. Everybody in this thread who acts smug in their ignorance is a tool of qabbalistic demons

>>12593396
There is this curious quality about the public perception of the elites. Those who uphold the rule of the elites - whether they adore or fear them - all come to believe those small groups of men to be unimaginably powerful. Whether through divine mandates, superior breeding, impeccable education, vast wealth or awesome technology, the 1% are seen as flawless masters extending themselves into perpetuity, as they can do no wrong, make no mistake, and their ivory towers are eternal.

Only every time the reality eventually asserts itself, and the elites are revealed as mere men - flawed, short-sighted, self-centered, mistake-prone and emotion driven, not any better than those they have ruled over, and their image is revealed to be nothing more than a delusion of their servants who would rather be willingly trampled by supreme beings than face the reality of unjust and insane world where they are being trampled by idiots who are not any better than they are and who hold their positions through nothing more than some chance, circumstance and sheer gullibility of those who would believe them to be great.

Bootlickers and fearmongers are entirely similar in that they desperately need gods. So, lacking any, they invent them.

>>12593263
>Was the state of humanity before civilization stable? Hunter-gatherer led a very brutal, short life and were ignorant about the forces that rule the world.
Of course it was. Life was indeed brutal, but they lived as part of the biosphere, which is sustainable. Modern human pretends it's somehow seperate from the processes that it's a product of. Which can not be sustainable and is doomed by default. Part of me still wants to see how far we can go though

>>12593082
Micro reactors can have A LOT of power, specifically if you use very high grade uranium. I'm not saying we can get to interstellar speeds with them yet, but the power output makes it conceivable.

>>12593406
The current elite is a grafted on scion that would wither on its own. It is a parasite that uses psychological manipulation to accrue energy to itself. Our kings were killed during the French revolution and replaced by psychopaths and nobody has stopped them since.

Btw, isn't this the /sci/ board? I thought everybody here knew about IQ and the bell curve. You think that it's not plausible there is an almost inhumanly intelligent person that has filled an evolutionary niche? It's survival of the fittest and if someone has the capability to build massive schemes of layers of people manipulating other people all for that person's benefit, then that's a valid method of survival as long as the other creatures don't discover that

>>12593416
>as part of the biosphere, which is sustainable.
Tell that to the megafauna. Humans always influenced their biosphere. The abirogene were the first to start the bushfires. The noble savage is a myth.
>not be sustainable
Depends on the technological basis. Renewable energy sources, fusion power and better methods to storage energy would allow humanity a more sustainable life than any other biological lifeform especially if we become a interplanetary species. Civilization is only around 6000 years old and in the next 6000 years humanity will be control of the sun. Natural life could only hope to live 500 million years. Civilizatory humans will live for trillions of years or more. Nature has no purpose, awareness or value but civilization will carry the light of consciousness across the universe.

>>12593434
>Our kings were killed during the French revolution

>>12592845
We owe to it all those that came before us, and all those that will come after us, to try to save the universe. And the only way to do that is spread life far and wide, and advanced far beyond our current state. If we stay here on
Earth and advance no further our doom is guaranteed. But we really have no idea what fantastic capabilities may be acquired by our descendants. The only way to find out is to try.

>>12593434
>Our kings were killed during the French revolution and replaced by psychopaths and nobody has stopped them since.
I can't imagine the mental strain from LARPing this hard.

>>12593416
What precisely is it, that would intelligent life wholly tied to its cradle? In terms of the materials necessary for life, and the energy, there is no lack of that elsewhere in the cosmos. Really only the major issues to humans are microgravity and radiation, and we already know how to solve both of those in the vacuum of space. And this only goes for humans. It is completely conceivable to us, and arguably an inevitable consequence of advancement, that our descendants will have no need to provided similar conditions to that which they have on Earth, just with energy an materials to sustain themselves.

>>12593510
>muh hapsburgoblino

>>12593528
>"Everything that appears sincere is actually a larp because I project my own insincerity onto others"

>>12593445
>Tell that to the megafauna. Humans always influenced their biosphere. The abirogene were the first to start the bushfires. The noble savage is a myth.
Of course humans always influenced their biosphere, that's how it works, it's a system where interactions go both ways. But the influence of hunther-gatherers on the biosphere was nowhere near that of a modern man in a global civilization. It was systemic, they were living as part of the biosphere. And bushfires are not destructive by default, they can be a natural disturbance. Many species have natural adaptations to it. But like many other processes modern man is exploting them.
The core process in the biosphere is the cycling of the elements. Organisms in various forms exist so that all the elements can cycle effectively. That's why we need sufficient biodiversity, not because the eco fascists or the hippies are telling you so. Modern mankind is heavily decreasing biodiversity and now the elements can't cycle properly and we're drowning in our own shit. But this shit is not so obvious, because ecosystems are plastic and they respond to disturbances with a delay. In short, Homo sapiens is just one species and it's not nearly as special as it thinks it is.

>Depends on the technological basis. Renewable energy sources, fusion power and better methods to storage energy would allow humanity a more sustainable life than any other biological lifeform especially if we become a interplanetary species. Civilization is only around 6000 years old and in the next 6000 years humanity will be control of the sun. Natural life could only hope to live 500 million years. Civilizatory humans will live for trillions of years or more. Nature has no purpose, awareness or value but civilization will carry the light of consciousness across the universe.
Pass the blunt

>>12593434
I think a some 95 IQ fags with a team of 120 IQ well-versed analysts can beat 30000 210 IQ guys who are on their own and fall to the tricks divised by 180+ IQ geniuses that the elite's tem use

>>12593602
>The core process in the biosphere is the cycling of the elements. Organisms in various forms exist so that all the elements can cycle effectively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF5xBtaL3YI
There is no purpose in nature, only an equilibrium. Biospheres eat themselves until new its niches are filled up again. Extinction is the norm. We did not jump from the asteroid 65 million years ago to today without some species going extinct because of changing situations or itself has overspecialized. Sabertooths are a good example.
Mankind has a enourmous effect on the world but it is also the only species that can develop the idea of value, is able to self-conceptualize itself in time and self-acutalize. Humanity is using the circle of life for its benefit and with agriculture it amplified it. Life`s biomass is not decreasing and humanity was able to built its own circle. Antarctic station have shown us that unlike Biosphere 2, in which people have introduced too much biodiversity, that with a simple selection of lifeforms, farms and life can be built everywhere.

>>12591219
>>>/r/eddit

>>12593162
typical prim

>>12593430
>I'm not saying we can get to interstellar speeds with them yet
Then you are either lying or goalposting for someone someone you disagree with.
Because
>>12591868
>We have powerful fission reactors, powerful enough we could accelerate ships to a significant percentage of the speed of light
Is pretty fucking clear.

>>12593910
>There is no purpose in nature, only an equilibrium. Biospheres eat themselves until new its niches are filled up again. Extinction is the norm. We did not jump from the asteroid 65 million years ago to today without some species going extinct because of changing situations or itself has overspecialized. Sabertooths are a good example.
Which is still cycling of elements. Also nice going picking the most generic example of extinction possible

>Humanity is using the circle of life for its benefit and with agriculture it amplified it.
There it is. This mentality is our downfall. We're not seperate from the cycling of elements, but a part of it. Using it for our own benefit can not be sustainable, because we can't simply exploit and abuse a system that took 3.7 billion years to evolve without it ejecting us into extinction.

>Life`s biomass is not decreasing and humanity was able to built its own circle. Antarctic station have shown us that unlike Biosphere 2, in which people have introduced too much biodiversity, that with a simple selection of lifeforms, farms and life can be built everywhere.
Yeah, that's not how it works. Biomass is not decreasing, but the function of that biomass is. We did indeed create our own cycle, the cycle of stupidity. How do you explain the accumulation of plastic and other artificial materials? Other organisms are not adapted to make use of it, so it accumulates. And it accumulates fast enough that it disrupts the life of many species. We can't just create our own cycles of elements that would have the robustness of natural ones, because the natural cycling of elements was evolving for 3.7 billion years. Do you really think we can compete with that?
As you said, extinction is the norm and it might be our turn... Just for a second try to take a step back and view humanity as part of the natural processes not seperate from them.

>>12593996
Powerful is the operative word. They have enough energy density. The issue is directing the energy efficiently.

>>12591219
kotbun

>>12593558
>What precisely is it, that would intelligent life wholly tied to its cradle?
Because intelligent life is not the end product, a goal. Its tied to its cradle because it's a part of it. Can it leave this craddle? I'd like to see that and it sure as hell would be cool, but on that other planet we are sure as hell repeating the same mistakes until we have to move again, like some space syphilis. Pretty gay if you ask me.
Wherever you go, there you are

>>12594113
Which is entirely the reason you're full of shit. Every goddamn futurist in this thread thinks it's so fucking easy to just invent something lol and then the problem is solved.

>>12594058
>We're not seperate from the cycling of elements,
Depends, we have technology that free us from the biological process. There is no intrinsic value to this "cycling of elements". We can grow and have grown beyond it. No life has made the achievements we did, no life is sophont but human life. And yes, using solar-power, wind, water or fusion we can built a system that is more sustainable than biological life. A primitivist life would be a life without meaning or wonder. No great insight, no voyages to the unknown or curiosity. It would be a blind and chaotic life.

>>12593938
>>/fa/ggotland

>>12594165
The craddle has no goal and it is a blind system born from entropic processes. No ties exists. It is unlikely that we are going to colonize planeta with other life on it or going to terra form them as space habitats or posthuman states of being make such endeavours obsolete.

>>12594191
your inability to link to other boards betrays you, plebbitor

>>12594179
Quality strawman my dude. I said nor implied anything of the sort. I'm pretty sure I used the word "monumental" to describe how difficult interstellar travel would.