/sci/ - Science & Math

It's got a 94% survival rate. Just slightly below that of the virus. you'll be fine. Wear a mask.

>china calls for
yeah nice propaganda bitch

Sinivac president resigned btw
Russian biomedical scientist who worked on Sputnik "suicided" (knife injuries and fell down from 14th floor)

They all suck, all these vaccines suck, and they're all each trying to make a point for themselves.

>>12584943
What did these guys die off?
When did they get the first dose and when did they get the second dose?
Did they have adequate antibody titers?

>>12584943
they die as covid positive? corona.
they die after the vaccine? "UNRELATED HEALTH EVENT"

>>12584943
>>>/news/

>>12585017
>you guys told me
/sci/ is shilling vaccines, so /sci/ gets the news.

>>12585036
then pretend this is /news/, at least, and post actual articles from publications we won't laugh at instead of just screenshots from twitter of people re-iterating news headlines

>>12584963
>Just slightly below that of the virus.
Lol. It is safer to contract the virus.

>>12584999
Why is everyone ignoring this

>>12585095
because the info is not out yet?

>>12585098
So stop making claims if you don't know the basics of what happened.
“Weherof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent”

>Breaking news, covid vaccine doesn't cure death
Did you even cared to see if the deaths were in any way related to the vaccine?

>>12584999
Good points and the same logic should be applied to those currently dying of covid as well.

>vacinate old people
>old people happen to die

Oh no

>Develop a vaccine without observing long term effects
>It creates problems
oh no who would have thought

To be fair, Pfizer didn't do a valid trial for people above 85. My brother, who is a doctor, has been mentioning this repeatedly, that they are not supposed to vaccinate people on that age range, because it's not tested. Hralth authorities should learn how to read studies. Also this stupid shit they're doing in the UK, France and Germany, giving the 1st dose to the max amount of people instead of respecting the tested regime. Absolute idiots, bureaucrats always fuck up everything.

>>12584943
trump, maga and all these shits are over now , anon. You can stop.

So what's the deal with old people dying "hours" after inoculation?

>>12585199
are you retarded? Stop making valid vaccine skepticism antiscientifc and political. You are fucking with science's integrity. They shortened the trials, they didnt do enough and they are already selling, stop being such a fucking drone and recognize that thee are some concerns.
Maybe it's all good but we should fucking stop entertaining the idea that it's good just because all previous vaccines were good, these have all not been tested long enough.
Neither sinovacs, oxford's, moderna's, the russian one nor pfizer's.

>>12585266
Trump lost.

>>12584943
Hurrr did they die FROM the vaccine or WITH the vaccine
6% y'all

>>12585266
Your post is filled with lies and is antiscientific and political

If I were to visit 1,000,000 old people over 90 years old with heavily impaired health, tap each of them on the shoulder and leave, how many of them would have died quickly after that?

>10 dead in germany
>googling shows ~300k vaccinations total
that's like 0.0033333% death rate
wow, truly it's safer to get the rona and power through

>>12585292
that's the only we know about, they like to hide the real stats, you don't want to panic the people, i bet you also think the China numbers on Covid

>>12585410
ok but don't move the goalpost, OP was afraid because of the data shown

25,000 got vaccinated in Norway and 23 died within hours to 3 days.

Something doesn't seem right here.

>>12585433
the people who were vaccinated were all over 80 and termed as "end-of-life patients". as in, if they got something like a fever or a bad allergic reaction, something that the vaccine can give you, they would die from it on account of being so frail already.

>>12584999
They were all super old

>>12585191
>the UK, France and Germany, giving the 1st dose to the max amount of people
Wait, what?

>>12585447
It’s retarded they are wasting the limited supply on hospice patients

>>12585063
WE LAUGH AT THE IDEA OF NOT BLINDLY APPEALING TO PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY CLAIMS

>>12585107
Just because you don't know how exactly they died doesn't mean they should be silenced. How would you find out if they can't ask

>>12585461
i kind of agree, but i also get the decision sort of. the most amount of covid deaths are reported in elderly age groups by a wide margin. however, i feel like these decisions have neglected to take into account the still unknown quantities and severity of long-term side effects of those who have had covid, in reference to which groups to vaccinate.

plus, id like to see the working class back in force as soon as possible.

>>12585154
But we were supposed to wear the mask, own nothing and eat bugs to protect the old, right?

>>12585292
If I die from illness or natural disaster, that's one thing.
If I die because someone forces me to inject something, it's another thing.

>>12585287
Congrats, you just explained the covid mortality.

>>12585433
Also 25k got infected in norway and less than 23 died. Vaccine seems to be useless.

>>12585473
That makes no sense.
>>12585469
The decision to vaccine the most frail and ederly stems from "vaccine protects, weakest needs most protection, therefore vaccinate the weakest.the most". A flawed reasoning as it ignores the point of vaccine which is herd immunity. It goes to show how much lack of logic in education and general education does to people.

>>12585469
The vaccination strategy is about numbers, not results, the political framing for the virus is number of infected and case fatality, now they're vaccinating the elderly under the whole "they're the most affected!" stick, while it's mostly about reducing their hype numbers so they can sell the public that their strategy was right and that it worked. I think the euro governments have maneuvered themselves into a corner with their ever more unpopular lockdown strategy, and admitting mistakes is political suicide at this point, so vaccines to get the numbers they declared to important down is now their way out of this while saving face. The whole last year was a government body of imbecile bureaucrats facing a health crisis that they just didn't understand, and they resorted to the same opportunistic policy making that they're accustomed to, sheer incompetence

>>12585149
there are proportionally more deaths from people with covid than deaths of people with hiv.

>>12584999
>What did these guys die off?
Same things they would've died off if they got covid, fever, strain on a weak body from fever and other effects.

If they had died of actual covid it would've been a tragedy. If we cause their death with a vaccine it's something to sweep under the carpet.

>>12585098
Norway judged that at least 13 deaths are due to vaccine caused side effects. This is official.

>>12585064
Yeah the vaccine seems like shit if its efficacy is worse than letting the virus take its natural course.

>>12584943
Darwin Awards for everybody !

>>12585536
That makes perfect sense. If I accidentally eat something bad, it's an accident. If you forcefeed me poison, you are the poisoner. If I trip and fall, it's my fault. If you force me to jump out of the window, you are the murderer.

>>12585095
>Why is everyone ignoring this
I think you mean
>"why is China ignoring this"

Anyone else notice a huge uptick in pro-China shill posts on every board on this site? I think the only board that doesn't have pro-china shills posting on it is
>>>/d/

>>12585660
>this is official
source?

>>12585720
Depressed Inmune System, for fucking sure

>>12585720
https://legemiddelverket.no/nyheter/covid-19-vaccination-associated-with-deaths-in-elderly-people-who-are-frail

Norwegian FDA
They decided it was relevant enough to publish it in english.

>>12585726
If the vaccine causes an immune reaction and you have a weak immune system.
Then you should notice less, not more effects.

>>12585266
ONE TERM
N
E

T
E
R
M

>>12585480
So what?
>muh death rate
Irrelevant since March last year.

>>12584943
You do realize 4chan and the MSM are not the same things... right? The MSM told you it was safe. 4chan's opinion is divided.

>>12584989
>Sinivac president resigned btw
>Russian biomedical scientist who worked on Sputnik "suicided" (knife injuries and fell down from 14th floor)
source on these claims

>globaltimes.cn
>see.news

yeah okay SAGE in all fields

>>12585459
Not that anon, but from what I read, some countries decided to give as many people as possible the first dose since it provides some protection, and then give a booster in 2-3 months rather than at 21-24 days.

>>12584989
>Russian biomedical scientist who worked on Sputnik "suicided" (knife injuries and fell down from 14th floor)

Glow harder.
I'd much rather take the Sputnik V vaccine than some Pfizer shit indemnified by the ZOG.

>>12585459
Didn't you see that in the news?
In response to the huge numbers leading up to new year's, they were trying to do the switcheroo and give the 1st dose to the maximum amount of people possible, and postponing the 2nd dose, instead of respecting the 20-something days period that was used in the trials.

>>12586301
Okay Ivan.

I support the vaccine.
Killing retards is always a good thing.

>>12585163
Dying within hours of taking the vaccine is not a long term effect

>>12585275
>>12585480
>>12585149
Learn what comorbidity means

>>12584943
We desperately need the vaccine regardless.
Look!
>>Coronavirus has now killed more than 2 million people worldwide: "A heart-wrenching milestone"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-death-toll-2-million-worldwide/

This represents a staggering death toll of 0.0002% of the world population!

>>12585287
this reads like an all powerful anime supervillain

>covid positive
>*teleports behind you*
>*taps shoulder*
>"heh nothin personnel kiddo"

>>12585410
>that's the only we know about, they like to hide the real stats,

Why are /pol/-smokers like this?

>Get proven objectively wrong
>NOOOOO U DON'T UNDERSTAND! What if reality is not actually reality and my delusions are actually reality! Then the vaccine has a 100% lethality rate!

Shut the fuck up and go back to your circle jerk hug box of knuckle draggers.

>>12586845
unironically watching See-BS News

>>12586845
You have to multiply by 100 dumbass.
It's 0.0286%

>>12586845
>2 million deaths is no big deal
>Republicans put the country into 6.4 TRILLION DOLLARS of debt and 2 decades of war killing 800,000 more people over 3,000 deaths on 9/11
>But the COVID-19 response is too much

This is your brain on neocon-ism

>>12586845
And what percentage of the global population has been infected? What will the death toll look like once infections have reached the level necessary for herd immunity? How will fatality rates for other illnesses change once healthcare infrastructure is completely overwhelmed and hospitals are incapable of providing adequate care to anyone?

>>12584989
>trust my global biomedical data mining operation for a vaccine platform that has been an abject failure for decades till miraculously being rushed to roll out with a claimed >90% efficacy

>>12586897
Dancing israelis.
Viral holocaust.

What's the dif, pédé ?

>>12586897
don't forget the billions in bank bailouts and wars from dnc too.

Something is not right about this vaccine, people are getting crazy fevers and pain. That's not like any vaccine i've ever taken.

But at the same time, i can't stay inside forever. Someday i have to go outside and i rather take a shitty vaccine than a virus that can paralyze me and make me deaf.

>>12584999
>What did these guys die off?
old age, most of them were above 80

>>12586814
>Learn what comorbidity means
Is this a joke? Or are you really IRL autistic?

>>12584943
Maybe mutating viral mRNA by cryptographic hash was free version, and they haven't paid for full, just abuncted me.

>>12584989
>Russian biomedical scientist who worked on Sputnik "suicided" (knife injuries and fell down from 14th floor)
Source?

>>12587551
>t. hasn't heard about the Russian window accident pandemic.

>>12587035
You will still be forced to lockdown and mask even when vaxxed.

>>12584943

So, who woul have thought that having just EIGHT FUCKING PEOPLE as a test for a vaccine that would go to billions of people is actually a bad idea?

>>12584943
No, I told you to wait 6 months and see what happens.
Don't make shit up and claim I said it anon.

>>12587593

>>12584943
Are you really surprised that /sci/ is exclusively populated by drooling imbeciles masquerading as intelligent lifeforms?

>>12586878
They do hide stats freak (it isn't so dramatic now that the virus has peaked twice), you should stay in your subhuman board (edit)
>inb4 *Smacks lips*
I know doctors sweaty

>>12587035
You'll need to get a vaccine every two months, papa billy gates said.
Papa billy gates is looking out for me, i love papa billy gates.

>>12587602
People that want to sterilise and kill billions of people, duh.
What a retarded question that was.

>>12586878
So "dies of covid" is the new "suicide by shotting himself five times in the back of the head", interesting.

>>12586899
Don't bring realistic possibilities into this.

>>12586899
My concern is what's going to happen once we have millions of people with permanently fucked lungs and other health issues. I'm not one of those people who's claiming even asymptomatic cases are screwed, but I know a few people who had serious infections early in the pandemic and they're still dealing with the fallout. We're now at almost 100 million confirmed cases and climbing at 750k a day. Even if only 5% of those people have long-term issues, that's a pretty big number to deal with.

>>12587035
>Something is not right about this vaccine, people are getting crazy fevers and pain. That's not like any vaccine i've ever taken.
It's been a while since I've had a vaccine, but I never had any issues with the flu shot, yet I know people who claim they get a full blown flu-like illness every time they get a flu shot. I don't know if they're full of shit, or if some people really do have overreactions to vaccines for some reason.

>>12587602
>So, who woul have thought that having just EIGHT FUCKING PEOPLE as a test for a vaccine
You're confused. It was something like 40k people in the trial (I don't remember the exact number), half were vaccinated, half were placebo, and in the vaccinated group, 8 were infected compared to 162 in the placebo.

My Granny got it yesterday.

>>12586899
>How will fatality rates for other illnesses change once healthcare infrastructure is completely overwhelmed and hospitals are incapable of providing adequate care to anyone?
You are promising this for almost year already and it never happened.

>>12588682
I once got a week of fever and month of sickness after the flu shot. Since then I avoid it.

>>12588707
Good for her. How is she doing?

>>12588754
It didn't happen because of lockdowns and social distancing and mask wearing.
That was the whole point of flattening the curve, remember?

>>12585274
>>12585281
>>12585768
These are the people "following the science". This is what critical thinking looks like nowadays.

>>12584943
Yes.

>>12587035
>than a virus that can paralyze me and make me deaf.
What virus is that?

>>12588781
It didn't happen in Sweden too (in fact its death rate was better than several years in the previous decade). So no, lockdowns and masks were useless at best and malignant at worst.

>>12588786
Belief in science is hardly different from belief in God.

>>12588805
https://youtu.be/v341VNPgL50

>>12588829
So forced lockdowns and masks did nothing to prevent the disease? Truly shows the power of dictatorship.

>>12588834
What? Watch the video.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/one-more-time-masks-work/

>>12584943
are we still believing having the virus doesn't give you immunity but taking a vaccine will give you immunity?

>>12588844
>sweden wears almost no masks
>no overcrowded hospitals
>no black-plague tier deaths
>in fact no record deaths at all - 2020 mortality was better that a few years in 2010's
>many masked countries do worse
Sorry, but looks like your "masks were forced, so no apocalypse happened" is a post hoc ergo propter hoc (and that's a very polite definition).

>>12588846
>but taking a vaccine will give you immunity
They are not even claiming that, that's why you will still be forced to wear masks even after vaxxing.

>>12588863
By the way: were death rates in other Western countries significantly above the previous decade record?
If no, then it's proven that covid is basically seasonal cold and lockdowns are useless.
If yes, then it's proven that lockdowns are actually very harmful and cause way more deaths than the virus.

>>12588869
>>>12588846 (You)
>>but taking a vaccine will give you immunity
>They are not even claiming that, that's why you will still be forced to wear masks even after vaxxing.

thats what I thought. Its just a scam to put the wage slaves on house arrest and have them accept it.

>>12588863
>Sweden wears almost no masks
>Swedes have the highest rate of single households in the EU
>Swedes have the lowest rate of multi-generational households in the EU
>Swedes naturally social distance
>Stockholm has experienced a very large decline in foot traffic
There's a lot Sweden has going for it over countries, even without masks.

>>12588916
>By the way: were death rates in other Western countries significantly above the previous decade record?
The USA and UK are. The USA experienced the largest increase in death rate from one year to the next in a century.

>>12588942
Were you replying to yourself? Lol

>>12589076
If "natural" social distance without masks produces better results than heavily enforced one, then you need to seriously question if such an enforcement holds any merit. Especially if natural distancing creates a bit above average death rate and enforced gives you the enormous jump. Swedish household size isn't that strongly below most EU countries (and it doesn't look like there is a huge correlation between household size and covid death rate).

>people who died that had covid were killed by covid
>people who died that had the vaccine didn't die because of the vaccine

Shills on FULL DAMAGE CONTROL

>>12588942
They are claiming that, retard. Tested on 19 variants. It works.

>>12589212
Nobody's saying that tho.

>>12589145
What do you mean by natural? They naturally social distance more, sure, but they took it to an extreme with the start of the pandemic (at the recommendation of the government). Is that natural? I saw some movement data, and Swedes were actually going out less than many places that had stricter mandates. Does that mean mandates don't work, or is it due to societal differences? Would Americans be going out even more without mandates, or would they be less determined to go against all recommendations and thus go out less? Who knows.

>Swedish household size isn't that strongly below most EU countries (and it doesn't look like there is a huge correlation between household size and covid death rate).
Not strictly household size. Their rate of single households is something like 50%, much of the EU is closer to 35%. Their rate of generational households is also lower. Fewer elderly living with children and grandchildren will of course reduce mortality. The virus has spread significantly there, but among younger people who are unlikely to suffer severe complications.

>>12589338
*multi-generational households

>>12589145
>Especially if natural distancing creates a bit above average death rate and enforced gives you the enormous jump.
This is ridiculous. The jump is due to lack of compliance, i.e. it's not being enforced. If it's not being enforced, then why complain about it? Where there actually is compliance and enforcement, there's statistical success.

>>12589374
>Where there actually is compliance and enforcement, there's statistical success.
If France, UK, USA, Italy and so on are not enforcing it enough, then they are either unable to do it, or don't want to do it. In both cases ditching demands and introducing strong recommendations would have worked better (both for covid and for government authority). But I am afraid that introducing curfews and storming gyms with special forces is a very definite enforcement, so if it didn't work, take notice.

>>12589433
>In both cases ditching demands and introducing strong recommendations would have worked better
How do you know? How do you know there wouldn't be even more people going out (and remember, these countries aren't comparable to Sweden, so you can't assume they'll naturally social distance)? To me, what you're stating says far more about the people than the mandates, when similar mandates have been adhered to in other countries.

>>12589338
>Would Americans be going out even more without mandates, or would they be less determined to go against all recommendations and thus go out less?
If you introduce mandates which significantly reduce rights of the population, then you get
a)people who take them as an insult and try to break them as much as they can
b)people who think that they cover everything to make things safe and then ignore measures in the places not explicitly covered by the mandates
so you get a huge additional fraction of mandate-ignorers (and people who comply can't do it for long because of the destruction of the economy).

>>12584943
phew...
dodged that bullet. Got the moderna one today
I've been suspicious of the pfizier one

>>12589486
How are you doing? Why did you get the vaccine? Are you a healthcare worker?

>>12584943
>Facebook moms are now on twitter
>Soon they'll be on 4chan
Fugg

>>12589451
It's quite simple: we are checking the initial claim
>It (hospital overwhelming) didn't happen because of lockdowns and social distancing and mask wearing.
If that claim is true, then lack of lockdowns and lack of mask wearing leads to hospitals being overwhelmed (while masklockdowned countries will be doing much better). Comparing Sweden with UK/US/many others shows that it simply false. So the initial claim fails: lockdowns and masks provide no benefit. But you are free to show other countries which had no masks and got overwhelmed hospitals.

>>12584943
>You guys told me the coronavirus vaccine was safe???
We said no such thing.

Wait if some "health passports" will be introduced and you will get rights reduced for not taking the vaccine. If it will happen, take the most harmless one (remember, dying isn't worth getting your documents). Before that don't take anything.

>>12589496
I'm doing well but my arm hurts. Yes I'm healthcare worker.

>>12589508
>Comparing Sweden with UK/US/many others shows that it simply false.
No it doesn't.

>lockdowns and masks provide no benefit.
Then why do countries with similar cultures to Sweden that instituted stricter measures have much lower case and fatality rates (Finland, Denmark, Norway)? All you've proven is that a naturally social-distanced culture that has a high rate of individual living fares better than cultures which are far more social and choose not to be compliant. You don't know what would have happened in the UK and USA without those measures. Perhaps people would have been even more social and the situation would be worse (or maybe it'd be the same, or better, but that just makes the citizens look like contrarian asses compared to a country like Germany). In fact we have numerous examples of what happened in the USA when certain states lifted mandates on bars and in-person dining, a massive increase in cases within weeks. In that same vein, we don't know how Sweden would have fared had they mandated stricter measures (a la Norway), but it's likely they'd have far fewer cases and deaths. Can you imagine if the USA had 5-10x more cases and deaths (the difference between Sweden and their neighbors)? That truly would be a disaster for the medical infrastructure.

>>12584963
Source?

>>12589793
>like contrarian asses compared to a country like Germany
It's kinda funny that you mention Germany because for a long time it was praised a covid-conqueror. But now its official deaths quintupled compared to the spring-summer, it already got more than half Swedish deaths and its current death rate is noticeably above Sweden at its peak.

>>12585410
>Very small percentage die
>"They are lying! Fake news!"
This is why trumpers are in the current state they are in. Whatever they dislike is fake news and whatever triggers their schizophrenia is praised as fact

>>12584943
>You guys told me the coronavirus vaccine
There are dozens of vaccines for the coronavirus for a reason anon.

>>12589793
> In fact we have numerous examples of what happened in the USA when certain states lifted mandates on bars and in-person dining, a massive increase in cases within weeks.
>. Can you imagine if the USA had 5-10x more cases and deaths (the difference between Sweden and their neighbors)? That truly would be a disaster for the medical infrastructure.
That's easy to check. Do the states above have the infrastructural disaster? Do they have 5-10x cases/deaths? No. In fact, the worst affected states are lockdown and mask proponents. So that hypothesis fails.

>>12591684
>it already got more than half Swedish deaths and its current death rate is noticeably above Sweden at its peak.
It's a country with 83 million people, compared to Sweden's 10 million. Sweden has double the death rate per capita. But Germany is more similar to the USA and UK, and compares even more favorably to them in terms of deaths and cases.

>>12591744
>It's a country with 83 million people, compared to Sweden's 10 million. Sweden has double the death rate per capita.
That's what I said?
>it already got more than half Swedish deaths and its current death rate is noticeably above Sweden at its peak.
Of course its per capita, absolute numbers are different.

>more similar
More similar in what? That's a weasel word which has little meaning (and even if you define the concrete similarity/difference, it should have a definite and huge effect on corona).
>and compares even more favorably to them in terms of deaths and cases.
It is (at the current moment) doing no better than USA,.but at least still better than Britain with its lockdowns.

>>12591731
>That's easy to check.
Yup. Texas and Florida, now 3rd and 4th in total deaths, both of which avoided the initial wave, and experienced a rise in cases and deaths during the summer that was more than 5x higher than the months in which bars and in-person dining were closed. Even when cases surged, there were still some restrictions, but you can only do so much once drunk people are in enclosed spaces.

>>12589793
>Can you imagine if the USA had 5-10x more cases and deaths (the difference between Sweden and their neighbors)
Sweden got its 5th worst year compared to the previous decade. What will happen in the worst case? 3rd worst year? Tie-in with the first? That sounds survivable because, well, it was survived several times.

>>12591773
>Yup. Texas and Florida, now 3rd and 4th in total deaths
You mean "24th and 25th in deaths per capita"?

>>12591760
>it's current death rate is noticeably above Sweden at its peak
That's what you said, and that's not correct if you're taking population into account. The total is higher, the rate is not.

>More similar in what?
Social customs and population. Other than the language difference, I didn't feel all that out of place when I visited the UK and Germany. Scandinavia felt very different.

>>12591782
Nope, I provided clarification about the total, unlike what you're trying to pass off. But if you want to go that route, California is well below them in deaths per capita while keeping stricter mandates and dealing with a larger urban population.

>>12591777
Where are you seeing Sweden's official 2020 death total?

>>12591792
>That's what you said, and that's not correct if you're taking population into account.
No, I said that it's *current* death rate (more than thousand deaths per day) is noticeably above Swedish peak death rate (around hundred deaths per day) even if you put it per capita.
>Social customs and population.
Sadly that's hardly quantifiable, so you can't say if it has positive or negative effect on corona (let alone huge one).

>>12591797
>Nope, I provided clarification about the total
Then you provided a pretty useless parameter because in the long turn most absolute deaths will correlate with state/country size (New York which is solidly first despite not being the biggest is work of art of its governor).
> California is well below them in deaths per capita while keeping stricter mandates
You mean "California is still a bit below them, but is quickly going near despite all the strict mandates"?

>>12591810
>I said that it's *current* death rate (more than thousand deaths per day) is noticeably above Swedish peak death rate (around hundred deaths per day) even if you put it per capita.
Noticeably? Germany's current 7-day average is 866 deaths per day, in a country of 84 million. Sweden had a 7-day running average of 99 during their first wave, and 92 during the second wave, in a country of 10 million. The per capita rates are almost identical, and Sweden's done it twice.

>Sadly that's hardly quantifiable
Socialization and urbanization aren't quantifiable?

>>12591821
NYC was ground zero, obviously they didn't handle the initial impact well, but their cases have been extremely low since. They haven't had another surge, similar to Sweden.

>You mean "California is still a bit below them, but is quickly going near despite all the strict mandates"?
You seriously need to stop creating fake quotes. That's a sleazeball tactic. California is still much better in terms of deaths per capita. I don't know why you're so obsessed with what's happening today when the last year is proof that things can change quickly. Remember when China was the only country with any cases?

>>12591831
>They haven't had another surge, similar to Sweden.
That should have been "haven't had another surge, unlike Sweden."

>>12591803
https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
It's absolute numbers, but you can google "swedish population", divide and see that to become first out of decade 2020 should get more that 100K deaths.
You can also see that 2019 was a bit anomalous below the trend, so much of 2020 deaths are just delayed deaths from it. But that's not even necessary to mention, data is OK even without it.

>>12591833
Can you tell me the source of their data for 2020? So far as I know, Sweden hasn't released any official figures.

>>12591831
>>12591832
>They haven't had another surge, similar to Sweden.
>That should have been "haven't had another surge, unlike Sweden."
I'm not sure if >>12588805 picture is not a surge (and it is cut early, current numbers are even worse).

>>12591831
>Socialization and urbanization aren't quantifiable?
If you make some important claims about covid, but then use "I didn't feel out of place" arguments, it is not very quantifiable. But there is actually a quantifiable factor here:
>urbanization
Yes, we can see that Sweden has higher urbanization rate than UK, France, Germany, USA. But I don't think that it speaks in your favour.

i saw a picture of some nordic country or another and they were all social distancing. This was before covid. Clearly the natural tendancy to distance from each other protects some societies, whereas others who are always getting disgustingly close are negatively impacted.

The solution i think is to fit the entire world population with shock collars and go off any time you get too close.

>>12591844
Cases have gone up mostly due to increased testing. Positivity rate is still low. Deaths are nowhere near their initial wave rates, while Sweden experienced a second wave equal to the first in terms of deaths.

>>12585453
>>12584999
>>12585154
>>12585287
>>12585447
>Covid death
>Comorbidity and age not relevant
>Vaccine death
>Comorbidity and age only thing that matters

>>12591850
>Deaths are nowhere near their initial wave rates,
That's because first wave New York was simply extremely bad, worst in the world. That makes its Swedish-tier second wave an extreme success.

>>12591833
So here's Sweden's official statistics site:

https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/sverige-i-siffror/manniskorna-i-sverige/doda-i-sverige/

They have an excel sheet for preliminary deaths for the last five years. 2020 is showing 97k deaths, which is 6k higher than any year in the last decade.

>>12591886
If correct, that will make 2020 3-4th worst year compared to the previous decade. That still fully defeats the "worst year in centuries", "black plague", "infrastructural collapse" and other lockdown proponent claims. In fact, it will not even beat any records.

>>12591852
Learn to read, retard.

>>12591852
So you're saying death by covid-induced pneumonia isn't due to corona, but natural death after drinking orange juice is due to orange juice?

>>12591899
>If correct, that will make 2020 3-4th worst year compared to the previous decade.
It's the worst year of the decade, by a significant margin in fact.

>That still fully defeats the "worst year in centuries"
I'd love for you to show me a source claiming this year has been worse than the Spanish Flu.

>>12593341
>It's the worst year of the decade, by a significant margin in fact.
No. In 2010 Sweden population was 9.3 millions, now it's 10.3. Deaths back then were ~90K. That will make 100K with the current population. Same is true for several other years.

>>12593341
There were claims that current year is comparable only to Swedish famine year (while back then Swedish population was around four millions, so it would be so only if we had 200-300K deaths in 2020).

>>12593397
Either you're unaware of Sweden's immigrant influx, or you're intentionally painting a misleading picture. Sweden's average births per year is about 110k-115k. Their average deaths are 90k per year. That's a net gain of 20k-25k. Yet their population has been increasing by 60k-70k per year. Not much of a surprise they've seen a steady decline in death rate when 2/3rds of their population growth has been driven by immigrants under the age of 40. Looking at year-to-year growth or decline in deaths makes much more sense since you'd expect a relatively consistent trend, and in most years, that's the case. Sweden's deaths increased by 9.27% from 2019 to 2020. Find another year where there was such a significant increase. I'll give you a hint, don't look in this century.

>>12593428
Nope, I asked for a source of someone (preferably an actual doctor or scientist) claiming this year has been worse than the Spanish Flu, which was not two centuries ago. I have a feeling you're making things up in an attempt to make your opposition look irrational and invalidate their opinions.

>>12593431
>Either you're unaware of Sweden's immigrant influx
Swedish fraction of 65+ years old also grew from 18% to 20% since then. Either immigrants were too old, or they simply didn't impact the population structure. Since 65+ is the main covid death group, it's even better argument in favour of 2020 deaths being nothing special.
>Sweden's deaths increased by 9.27% from 2019 to 2020.
That was mentioned before:
>You can also see that 2019 was a bit anomalous below the trend, so much of 2020 deaths are just delayed deaths from it.
If you'll take this in account, covid effect will become even more negligible, so thanks for mentioning it.

>>12593466
>You can also see that 2019 was a bit anomalous below the trend, so much of 2020 deaths are just delayed deaths from it.
Nope, even taking that into account, 2020 would have exceeded the growth in deaths from every other year in the last decade. 2020 was exceptional.

>>12593473
As we can clearly see above, 2010 was several percents worse. Do the calculations for other years as a homework and you will see that
>If correct, that will make 2020 3-4th worst year compared to the previous decade.
But guess that in 2010 Sweden survived the apocalypse, so it is tough since then.

>>12593446
Of course Spanish Flu was worse because it was an actual serious pandemics, not a somewhat bad seasonal cold. Now even Spanish Flu wasn't used as a reason to go full new normal.

>>12593489
>As we can clearly see above, 2010 was several percents worse.
Nope. A 9.27% increase in deaths is worse than every year this century by a wide margin. Even if you manipulate the numbers so that 2019 had the same deaths as 2018, then remove those deaths from 2020, 2020 would STILL be the worst year in the last decade.

>>12593499
>Of course Spanish Flu was worse because it was an actual serious pandemics
So you're a liar, because I see no source to support what you claimed. Why do you make up quotes? You've done that repeatedly.

>>12591899
>"worst year in centuries"
>"black plague"

>>12588786
>>12585266
>You are fucking with science's integrity

Why should I care what you have to say about science or vaccines? You are an alt-right conspiracy theorist. You're not informed or educated, and you don't know shit about science or medicine. It's retards like you who got us into this mess in the first place. I have far more faith in the CDC, public health officials, and doctors that some inbred schizophrenic on the internet.

This shit is fucking enraging. You schizos have spent the last 4 years blabbering about "elites" and "globalism" and "qanon", and your ridiculous conspiracy theories, but now you guys are reaching new levels of retardation. In the last year you guys have started promoting conspiracy theories about science and medicine that have literally cause MILLIONS of people around the world to die. When all is said and done, and it's been say 5-10 years of the COVID endemic, this could literally be bigger than WW2 in terms of number of deaths. All because people like YOU all of a sudden are obsessed with "skepticism" and scientific "debates". It's funny, because this interest in "skepticism" and "debate" came out of the blue. You guys aren't interest in skepticism when it come to the shit you read in the bible or the shit you see on Fox News or the shit you hear on InfoWars, but as soon as it comes to science or medicine, all of a sudden you want to be "skeptics". Then to top it all off, you begin the new year with an attempted coup and the murder of two police officers.

Guess what: you can go fuck yourself. "Skepticism" is great, but you need to learn what that word means. Science denialism is not "skepticism". Promoting treason and attempting to orchestrate a coup is not "skepticism". Promoting racism, hate, and fake news is not "skepticism". You people are not interested in learning the science and having a real debate, what you are interested in is spreading disinformation and hate.

>>12593511
>Nope. A 9.27% increase in deaths is worse than every year this century by a wide margin.
Yes, that was mentioned above
>You can also see that 2019 was a bit anomalous below the trend, so much of 2020 deaths are just delayed deaths from it.
>If you'll take this in account, covid effect will become even more negligible, so thanks for mentioning it.
But even without such a manipulation 2020 is still better than 2010 and several other years from 2010s.

Here, have a cute picture to cheer you up. I wonder if you are the anon who posted about Texas and Florida above.

>>12593529
>So you're a liar
That's a very strong claim. Can you prove that I am lying, or are you a liar yourself?
>"worst year in centuries"
>"black plague"
Of course it isn't. It's a year which a bit above the decade average due to a somewhat bad seasonal cold.

>>12593542
>this could literally be bigger than WW2 in terms of number of deaths.
Every year ~3 millions of Americans die. So you basically have a Holocaust every two years. Or 1000 9/11s every year. Or 3KK Kennedy murders every year. Spooky, right?

>>12593542
>Promoting racism, hate, and fake news is not "skepticism".
Haiti once did a very nice job fighting racism and hate.

>>12593511
https://www.scb.se/contentassets/692abc00759c49b99539fc4bc92a2feb/hs0301_kd_2019.pdf

2019 vs 2002: 7.03% increase.
2019 vs 1999: 7.03% increase here too.
2019 vs 2020: 9.1% increase.

>wIdE mArGiN

>>12593546
>Even if you manipulate the numbers so that 2019 had the same deaths as 2018, then remove those deaths from 2020, 2020 would STILL be the worst year in the last decade.
That was mentioned above. Now you've resorted to not only making up quotes, but you're ignoring what's already been stated.

>>12593557
>That's a very strong claim. Can you prove that I am lying
You made the claim, and you used quotes, which means that you're supposedly pulling from a source. I asked for that source, and you're refusing. I have to assume you weren't quoting anyone, hence you made them up, aka lied. Considering you created false quotes that I never said earlier in the thread, that seems to be in line with your behavior. People who have to lie during debates don't have enough evidence to support their arguments.

By the way, Sweden's own statistics department even stated that 2020 "stands out" in comparison to 1900-2019, but I'll trust you, Mr. Lying Anon.

>>12593511
>Even if you manipulate the numbers so that 2019 had the same deaths as 2018, then remove those deaths from 2020, 2020 would STILL be the worst year in the last decade.
It will sink below the average then.

>>12593584
https://www.statistikdatabasen.scb.se/pxweb/sv/ssd/START__BE__BE0101__BE0101I/DodaHandelseK/

>1970 vs 1988: 20% increase in deaths.

I wonder what kind of double-covid super ultra pandemic disaster happened during that time?

>>12593591
>That was mentioned above. Now you've resorted to not only making up quotes, but you're ignoring what's already been stated.
As said, even without such a manipulation 2020 will be just 3-4th worst. So it is not necessary, but it will pull 2020 even more down (to 6-7th worst, I guess).

>>12593546
>>12585266
Take your meds, schizo. Trump lost. Science is real.

>>12593591
>You made the claim, and you used quotes, which means that you're supposedly pulling from a source.
>By the way, Sweden's own statistics department even stated that 2020 "stands out" in comparison to 1900-2019
Hmm, it's good for you to lie and then immediately destroy your own lie.
>Considering you created false quotes that I never said earlier in the thread, that seems to be in line with your behavior.
Where was it claimed that you said the thing which was in quotes? What was said in those quotes was actually more clever than what you said, so it's just another lie.

Quite a lot of lies in one post, my liar friend?

>>12593584
What in the world are you calculating? You do it on a year-to-year basis.

1998 to 1999: 95075 / 93628 = 1.54% increase
2001 to 2002: 95071 / 93805 = 1.34% increase
2999 to 2020: 97000 / 88822 = 9.20% increase

>>12593609
As 2020 showed, science is useless. Useless things are real too.

>>12593619
I'm comparing the lowest year and the highest years of the recent past you dimwit.

>>12593619
2999 sounds like a scary year.

>>12593617
https://www.scb.se/en/About-us/news-and-press-releases/projection-covid-19-leads-to-lower-life-expectancy-in-sweden-in-2020/

There you go, I provided a source. Since you just accused me of lying because I didn't supply the source originally, we can agree that you're definitely lying since you've refused to supply a source.

>>12593625
Hey anon, look, I found a picture of your house.

>>12593630
That makes no sense. You're supposed to compare year-to-year since presumably there will have been little change in health care and population from one year to the next, whereas the same can't be said when comparing across decades. I'm not aware of any data scientist who would do it the way you are, you're just clinging to anything at this point.

>>12585292
Only 1% as lethal as covid

>>12593636
>For men, this means, roughly speaking, that the large increase in life expectancy in 2019 will be erased and will return to the 2018 level.
The ultimate horror! So you had one lucky year with a small jump, but then you are returning to the trend? Guess that 2018 was truly a Swedish holocaust. To lose centuries... millenia... one year sounds very newnormalworthy.
>we can agree that you're definitely lying since you've refused to supply a source.
No, unless you will definitely prove that I am lying, you are definitely lying yourself.

>>12593636
>Developments in the mortality rates between January and August indicate a declining life expectancy for both women and men this year; from 84.7 years to 84.4 years for women and from 81.3 years to 80.8 years for men.

>“For men, this means, roughly speaking, that the large increase in life expectancy in 2019 will be erased and will return to the 2018 level. For women, the decline is somewhat smaller.

So life expectancy of women increased between 2018 and 2020 and for men there were no difference.
To sum it up: nothing really happened

>>12593636
Fucking kek.

>>12593645
Anon, it's you who started clinging to more and more curious stats after learning the simple fact: Swedish mortality in 2010 was higher than in 2020! That's true for several more years, but by now you are in denial even about 2010.

>>12593649
>Life expectancy has increased steadily in Sweden in the period 1900-2019, so a decrease stands out.
>“There have been some years and shorter periods of stagnation or reduced life expectancy. However, it is still unusual for life expectancy to drop from one year to the next.”
Die on your hill anon, but you've lost this.

>>12593662
Of course anon: it turned out that 2020 was the worst year since... 2018! That's what the new black plague truly means!

>>12593647
>No, unless you will definitely prove that I am lying, you are definitely lying yourself.
Not that anon, but are you really accusing someone else of lying because they're not willing to scour the entire internet to prove something doesn't exist that you've claimed does? That's insane. If you won't support your own quotes then just drop it, don't go accusing others of being liars.

>>12593662
>“Increases this large are rare. The differences between 2018 and 2019 were largely due to lower mortality rates in the ages over 64 years.”
That's what
>You can also see that 2019 was a bit anomalous below the trend, so much of 2020 deaths are just delayed deaths from it.
>If you'll take this in account, covid effect will become even more negligible, so thanks for mentioning it.
was about. You had a rare large increase in life expectancy, you then returned to the trend with delayed deaths happening next year.

>>12593679
>Not that anon, but are you really accusing someone else of lying because they're not willing to scour the entire internet to prove something doesn't exist that you've claimed does?
If he will claim that he will not scour the entire internet, it's his choice. If he is making the definite claim about me lying, then he should prove it, or he will be the liar himself. Fairly simple, isn't it?
>If you won't support your own quotes then just drop it, don't go accusing others of being liars.
Why should I? It's fun (especially because he is claiming that I am lying about something and then is trying to defend the same thing).

>>12593689
>(especially because he is claiming that I am lying about something and then is trying to defend the same thing).
He provided his source, and what you just admitted to is essentially trolling, which is banned outside of /b/.

>>12593662
Here you go anon:

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=regression+to+the+mean

https://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Statistics-10th-Neil-Weiss/dp/0321989171/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=introductory+statistics&qid=1610915095&sr=8-6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean

>>12593705
His sources defeat his own ideology: they show that at absolutely worst covid will take us back to... 2018 (and only because 2019 was anomalously good). So I'm grateful that he provided them.

>>12593645
>That makes no sense.
Yes it does, it highlights variability on a longer timescale. Showing us that we shouldn't make a mountain out of a molehill just because it fits your personal narrative.

>>12593662
>stands out
>unusual
You seem to lack the ability to quantify.

My nipples stand out from the surface of my chest.
The himalaya mountain range stand out from the surface of the earth.

You are blind to the quantity, you just get stuck on that they both stand out. And because the Himalayas pose an obstacle to low flying air traffic, then so does my nipples. Learn to differentiate and you might upgrade your intellect from severely retarded to moderately retarded.

>>12593711
But you still provided no source for your quotes and admitted in having fun harassing someone else. You're trolling, anon. This is a science board, please don't treat it like /b/. Support your claims or drop it, don't resort to trolling.

>>12593712
You proved the opposite. It proved that those significant years were insignificant compared to the prior and next years (less than a 2% difference), whereas 2020 had a greater fluctuation in deaths from one year to the next in at least 3-4 decades.

>>12593756
>and admitted in having fun harassing someone else.
I'm not harassing him. Claiming that is lying. Claiming that I've admitted it is a double lie.
>You're trolling, anon.
That's another lie.
> This is a science board, please don't treat it like /b/.
Good advice, you should follow it.
>Support your claims or drop it, don't resort to trolling.
Even better advice, you should follow it too.

>>12593762
Because
>“Increases this large are rare. The differences between 2018 and 2019 were largely due to lower mortality rates in the ages over 64 years.”
Most 2020 "covid" deaths are delayed 2019 deaths. But even without them it is better than 2010 and several other years from 2010s.

>>12593762
I showed the truth for everyone else in the thread. That you keep playing a game of definitions in your own head is no concern of mine.

>>12593636
I've noticed in the last year that more and more posters have started making claims without providing any evidence, and their response is usually to tell someone else to waste their time searching for it, which is of course not how science is supposed to work.

>>12593808
Reading own links would be even more impressive.

>>12585730
>In Norway we are now vaccinating the elderly and people in nursing homes with serious underlying diseases, therefore it is expected that deaths close to the time vaccination may occur. In Norway, an average of 400 people die each week in nursing homes and long-term care facilities.
>All deaths that occur within the first few days of vaccination are carefully assessed. We cannot rule out that adverse reactions to the vaccine occurring within the first days following vaccination (such as fever and nausea) may contribute to more serious course and fatal outcome in patients with severe underlying disease. 23 reports of suspected deaths have been submitted to the Norwegian ADR health registry.
Looks like another nothingburger. Vaccinate a dying cohort, some of them die.

>>12584943
nice try you retarded autist, vaccines are save as fuck and definitely saver than the corona shit

>>12593834
No point in saving if you can't load.

>>12588805
America is such a broken joke of a country.

>>12592623
>Covid causes pneumonia
>Dying from an alergic reaction to the vaccin means the death was completely unrelated to the vaccin

>>12593830
In that case why does this not apply to Covid itself? Since old fucks die every day, why even bother shutting down the country?

>>12593855
Because then they are dying *of* corona, while here they are dying *with* the vaccine. Corona is the efficient cause of death, while the vaccine is an accidental property of the deceased.

>>12593861
You WILL die WITH the vaccine and you will be happy!

>>12593861
Well, if they vaccinate the 100 years olds with fourth stage cancer, then it's on them too.

>>12593865
>>12593874
You guys do know about using relative risk and biostatistics to determine if the vaccine is a causative agent of some event or not? It's basic epidemiology and statistics

>>12593877
Norway have determined that vaccination kills.
I wonder what the antivaxxers will do with this, thanks a lot pfizer.

>>12593877
If I see that people inject something and then fall dead, then I'm not taking it without literally being forced to do that. It's you who should bring the very strong evidence of the opposite to convince me to do it.

How long will it take for the vaccine to kick in, on a global scale?

>>12593894
Why do you think there's so many memes repeating the exact same message:
>""""We don't know if the vaccine prevents infections or prevents spreading?""""

>>12593894
Israel have the highest vaccination rate by far so look at their case and death counts how it evolve during the coming month(s)

>>12593901
Actually we do
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-data-shows-50-reduction-in-infections-14-days-after-first-vaccine-shot/amp/
Just need more data before publishing final results

>>12593915
That data doesn't say anything conclusive.

I mean I could decided that the following quote
>nearly one-fifth of over 1,000 current serious COVID-19 patients had previously received the first dose of Pfizer’s vaccine — stressing the need to continue to protect oneself after receiving the shot.
>“Seventeen percent of the new serious cases today, or 180 cases, are after the first dose,” she told reporters.
Is a proof of Vaccine Enhanced Disease.
It's just officials and media grasping at straws at this point.

My education of course tells me that a properly working vaccine will prevent infection and transmission but the retarded memers spreading myths all over the place is doing a perfect job of playing into the hand of the worst of the nutcase conspiracy cases.

>>12593877
>It's basic
It's actually not. It's very, very hard.

>>12584943
>china
Anon, we need to talk.

>>12584943
What would CHINA have to gain?
I mean their mRNA vaccine is....

>>12585036
>/sci/ is shilling vaccines,

Oh really?
Do you believe any vaccines have efficacy in the history of medicine?

>>12585292
yes

e.g - 1 in 2000 people circa will have life-threatening reactions to certain antibiotics.

>>12585607
>The whole last year was a government body of imbecile bureaucrats facing a health crisis that they just didn't understand, and they resorted to the same opportunistic policy making that they're accustomed to, sheer incompetence

Almost as if modern neo-liberal economics doesn't respond well to the hollowing out of institutions with cookie cutter cronyism and money

>>12586897
>>12586922
To be fair, as Blythe pointed out, US can funnel more to the PIGS as every country is in the shit roughly at the same time.
US moreso but they have muh armies and power too so money printer go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>But for elites. Not for us little people. Here's some crumbs

>>12588707
Don't fight over the inheritance if the unfortunate happens.
pray she gets better.

Vietnam wins again.
>Takes it seriously
>Takes decisive good measures
>Re-opens economy gradually.
>Has far lower death rate
That's 2 - 0 vs the US now

>>12585292
So a 1 in 30k chance of dying. Meanwhile, 1 in 44 COVID-19 cases have died in Germany. Assuming they've only detected 10% of cases, that's still 1 in 440.

>>12593981
No, lockdowns and masks don't work!

>>12593995
Agreed.
Where can I buy more Alex Jones memorabilia?

>>12589433
Italian here. A lot of people here are simply retarded and just do whatever they want because "lol nothing bad can happen to me, so fuck everyone else".

>>12594050
How good is your pizza?

>>12593861
They are dying in exactly the same manner
>Old fucks with underlying health issues die after contracting otherwise mild virus
>Old fucks with underlying issues die after bad reaction to otherwise safe vaccine

Stop being an inconsistent fuck

>>12593981
Vietnam will always be better than the US

>>12585287
Stop killing our senior citizens, Anon.

you WILL eat the bugs
you WILL get the vaccine
you WILL own nothing
you WILL be happy

Opening this thread was a mistake, I will keep sticking with /mg/.
After /pol/, /sci/ is the next most retarded board. At least /x/ realises that they're schizoids by posting on there. You guys are on another level of idiot. Especially the medical fags

>>12585287
probobly none, though that has no relevance to the topic at hand either. tapping somebody isnt the same as a ultra-mild covid-19 case from the vaccine

>>12584943
>China tells world to stop using American product
kek, I'm not even getting the virus and think that's hilariously predictable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Mte6z7TQI

>>12584943
I've told everyone on this board 100 times. Whatever the consensus is on /sci/ the opposite will always be true

>>12585768
TWO GENDERS
W
O

G
E
N
D
E
R
S

>>12586878
He didnt die of covid, he had just had heart surgery if I am not mistaken. A fucktard who only reads headlines and has no idea wtf is ever going on is calling people "pol." Wow what a surprise. Why are dilaters like this?

>>12585657
>strain on a weak body from fever and other effects.
had severe infection and I could barely even feel my legs.

>>12585536
>vaccine protects, weakest needs most protection, therefore vaccinate the weakest.the most
reminds me of the seinfeld episode wen kramer is like 'whaaa, na you need to eat before surgery, you need your strength!'

imagine if there was a lovely vaccine that could prevent cowardice. give the vaccine, and then there's an article saying some people are still a coward after it. covid=death.

>>12595105
meant to say covid and death are mutually inclusive

>>12593981
Vietnam wins again.
>USA does 860 tests per thousand
>Vietnam does 14 tests per thousand
>covid is gone!

>>12595447
USA - 8.9% positivity rate
Vietnam - 0.1% positivity rate

If anything, it's the USA that still isn't testing enough.

>>12595093
>He didnt die of covid, he had just had heart surgery if I am not mistaken.
He had surgery for a blood clot that was a complication of COVID-19, and then had a heart attack after the surgery.

>>12595471
We don't know if Vietnam has any covid or is full of it simply because its testing ls not just small, it is basically nonexistent.
>but deaths and overwhelming hospitals
As Swedish example shows, if you ignore lockdowns, no such things happen - instead you get a year better than several from decade before.

So Asians prove their wisdom once again. "If I will ignore it, it will go away" - this time it did.

>>12595487
>We don't know if Vietnam has any covid or is full of it simply because its testing ls not just small, it is basically nonexistent.
I don't know what you want them to do. You start with testing symptomatic people. If there's a lot of positives, you move out to testing close contacts. If you continue to get positives, then there's community spread and you need more testing. They're getting almost no positive cases, there's simply no community spread. Why waste resources testing for something that isn't there?

>As Swedish example shows
Their positivity rate is very high.

>>12595471
>Vietnam - 0.1% positivity rate
So one out of thousand has covid in Vietnam? Even if we'll assume that they test a new person every time, that will give us around hundred thousands cases in the whole Vietnam. Good reason to stop testing.

>>12595497
>So one out of thousand has covid in Vietnam?
One out of a thousand tests.

>>12595492
I don't want them to do anything else. I want other countries to follow their example, immediately stop testing and then proclaim that covid is defeated. Just like Asians did.
>Their positivity rate is very high.
Looks like that positivity is the only thing which fuels the pandemic.

>>12591821
rightoids from flyovers actually believe California is locked down because that's what the media/PR/government is saying, but I can assure you we are quite open. You just can't eat indoors or go to a movie.

When they made their dramatic announcement of the new lockdown, they also quietly added a mile long exemption list that had pretty much every business and private school. Everyone is considered essential, so everyone as work, and the largest contributor to the spread this winter is in the workplace.

>>12595507
>Just like Asians did.
They didn't, though. They're still testing. But unless there's indications of community spread, there's no reason to ramp up testing.

>>12595505
Since these tests happened only to around percent of population (not in a day or in a week, but during the whole covid affair), 98+% of population is simply ignored. Most of the remaining people are ignored too after the initial test. So you get data only for the absolutely negligible percent of population (and even there covid is supposedly not eradicated). A good way to defeat covid.

>>12595485
ok well a blood clot and heart attack arent dying from covid you fucking dipshit. It is like saying someone died from grapes because they choked on one you fucking donkey

>>12595512
>They're still testing.
No, doing not 2 or 3 times fewer tests, but HUNDRED times fewer tests is not "still testing". It's barely pretending that you are testing.
>But unless there's indications of community spread
And you will get no such indication because you do no tests. Truly the Catch-22, but in a good way.

>>12595508
>When they made their dramatic announcement of the new lockdown, they also quietly added a mile long exemption list that had pretty much every business and private school. Everyone is considered essential, so everyone as work, and the largest contributor to the spread this winter is in the workplace.
Now that's a better tactics.

>>12595516
No, the symptomatic population isn't ignored. That's where you start testing. If they're coming up negative, then why test more? Look at the USA early on. 40% of the tests were coming back positive. Does that mean 40% of the population was infected? No, of course not, the number was so high because all testing was being reserved for people who were ill and likely infected. As the USA tested more, that number came down. Vietnam has no reason to test beyond the symptomatic and for international travel. If they catch a case, then check close contacts, see if there's any carriers in the community, etc. There's almost nothing to find, otherwise we'd be seeing a MUCH higher positivity rate.

>>12595517
Blood clots are a direct result of COVID-19. That's like saying you were shot, but the bullet going through your heart didn't kill you, it was the blood loss that killed you. If he never gets COVID-19, he never gets a clot, and he never has a heart attack.

>>12595525
Nope, it's testing. Positivity rate under 5% means testing is sufficient.

Norwegian here.
Those were all nursing home deaths. In Norway nursing home residents are usually extremely frail.

Sucks that this will be used to fuel the anti-vaxx nonsense.

>>12595532
So let's do ONE test in every country. If it will be negative, then positivity rate is 0% and covid is defeated. If it is 100%, then let's lockdown for a day, then do another test. Every country will defeat covid in a few days then.

>>12585274
>>12585281
>>12585768
>>12593542
>>12593609
You are why people are losing faith in science.
I also recommend spending a few hours in your day not obsessing over mutt politics, this isn't healthy. Consider starting a hobby that doesn't involve consuming media.
Now fuck off to Mastodon or whatever shithole you came from.

>>12595530
no it is nothing like it, you are an idiot

>>12595534
>Those were all nursing home deaths.
Sounds like covid deaths. Sucks that this will be used to fuel the lockdown nonsense.

>>12595537
>So let's do ONE test in every country.
Sure, but Vietnam clearly isn't doing that since they're testing the people with symptoms who want to be tested, international travelers, health care workers, etc. They're not finding anything to indicate significant community spread that warrants more significant testing.

>>12586878
If he really got covid, then it shows that all the covidist measures ultimately failed.

>>12595541
The clot was caused by the disease. The clot led to the heart attack. I mean, you can probably argue some deaths were mislabeled, but that's a weird one to get disgruntled about.

>>12595540
>You are why people are losing faith in science.
What a brainlet take.

>>12595545
>Sure, but Vietnam clearly isn't doing that
Testing less than hundred of people a day in a country of 100 millions? Yes, it is doing exactly that.
>They're not finding anything to indicate significant community spread that warrants more significant testing.
Correct, they are not finding any covid in their community because they fully avoid testing their community. That causes them not to test it and so on. That's the vicious circle, except that it is a blessed circle in this case.

>>12595555
>Testing less than hundred of people a day in a country of 100 millions?
They're testing thousands per day and coming up with almost no new cases, hence the 0.1% positivity rate. When the USA was testing thousands per day, almost half of the tests were coming back positive.

>they are not finding any covid in their community because they fully avoid testing their community
They are testing the community. They're testing the symptomatic, the health care workers, international travelers. We can keep going round here, but there's no outbreak, the numbers bear that out. Lower testing (when testing the sick) means higher positivity rate. This is basic stuff. It was true in the USA, in Europe, etc. You're not going to get massive community spread with absolutely no one getting sick. You test the sick and most at risk and work from there.

>>12595517
Covid cause hypercoagulability. That's literally why covid patients are put on anticoagulation treatments.

>>12595573
>They're testing thousands per day
Yes, my bad, you are correct here. That still does not change the fact that it's absolutely nothing for a country of 100 millions.
>They are testing the community.
No. 98-99% of population never ever got the test and that's even assuming that they do more or less spread tests and don't just test same people many times.
>We can keep going round here, but there's no outbreak, the numbers bear that out.
You can't detect the outbreak because it is negligible until it is spread. But even if it will spread it will still be almost negligible. So ignoring it is a perfect possibility.
> You're not going to get massive community spread with absolutely no one getting sick.
And you won't know if anyone gets sick without tests.

>>12595600
>You can't detect the outbreak because it is negligible until it is spread.
No it's not. You're going to get groups of people in communities falling ill, and they'll get tested. That's what's happening. People get sick, they get tested, it's rarely SARS-CoV-2. If it is, test close contacts. If it's not, treat them for whatever else it is.

>And you won't know if anyone gets sick without tests.
If a person is sick, they're sick. You don't need a test to tell you someone is sick, you test to find out what's causing it. And Vietnam is doing that. And people aren't getting sick from SARS-CoV-2.

>>12595616
>No it's not. You're going to get groups of people in communities falling ill, and they'll get tested.
As the numbers show, even sick people get almost no tests.
>If a person is sick, they're sick.
Then he can have all sorts of diseases, from covid to flu to other respiratory infection. You can also be not sick and have covid.
>And Vietnam is doing that.
No. 14 tests per thousand people (in total) isn't testing, it's pretending that you test.
>And people aren't getting sick from SARS-CoV-2.
Because they are not getting the covid tests, so even if they are sick from it, they get some different treatment (which is no worse in this case).

>China calls other countries to stop dabbing on their man-made virus
Also you do know like 1 million people got vaccinated in Germany, right?

>>12595530
Three years ago these retards were saying that Heather Heyer died of a heart attack instead of dying of getting run over by a faggot in a Challenger.

>>12593808
Providing links upon request is "spoonfeeding", anon. Blame /a/.

you should have listened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFntHpk1uok

>>12584943
>33 people out of 5m+
okay

>>12595635
>As the numbers show, even sick people get almost no tests.
Vietnam has run more COVID-19 tests than the USA ran flu tests in 2019, and the USA has a population 3.5 times the size of Vietnam's. It's entirely plausible every sick person in Vietnam that needs testing is getting tested. Their positivity rate proves their testing is more than adequate.

>No. 14 tests per thousand people (in total) isn't testing, it's pretending that you test.
More than the USA tests for the flu annually. Are you suggesting the USA only pretends to test for the flu?

>Because they are not getting the covid tests
But they are, they just have almost no community spread because they took appropriate measures, and now there's very few people displaying symptoms that necessitate testing, and even fewer that actually return positive results.

>>12584943
trusting /sci/ is like trusting the government

>>12597753
>Vietnam has run more COVID-19 tests than the USA ran flu tests in 2019
...but USA ran 200 times more covid tests than Vietnam. But nice flu comparison, looks like covid-flu theory is getting to you.

>>12597753
>Are you suggesting the USA only pretends to test for the flu?
They are treating flu like it is: a seasonal cold. Vietnam does the same with covid, so thanks for the example.
>they just have almost no community spread
They just ignore it, and it's a very wise decision because it lets them to get off the new normal hook.

>>12597840
>...but USA ran 200 times more covid tests than Vietnam.
I wonder why that is?

>>12595471
>USA - 8.9% positivity rate
>Vietnam - 0.1% positivity rate

USA is testing more because it has insane community spread, Vietnam does not.

>>12597849
>They are treating flu like it is: a seasonal cold. Vietnam does the same with covid, so thanks for the example.
But Vietnam is testing at a far higher rate than the USA does for the flu? And if Vietnam was getting numbers like the USA does for the flu, then they would test more, but they don't need to.

>They just ignore it
They're not. Their testing is more than adequate. People who need to be tested are tested. In the USA, people who need to be tested are not. It's the USA that needs to test more. That's the difference in allowing massive community spread, testing will not be able to keep up.

>https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/covid-19-testing-understanding-the-percent-positive.html
>A higher percent positive suggests higher transmission and that there are likely more people with coronavirus in the community who haven’t been tested yet.

>The percent positive is a critical measure because it gives us an indication how widespread infection is in the area where the testing is occurring—and whether levels of testing are keeping up with levels of disease transmission.

>The higher the percent positive is, the more concerning it is. As a rule of thumb, however, one threshold for the percent positive being “too high” is 5%. For example, the World Health Organization recommended in May that the percent positive remain below 5% for at least two weeks before governments consider reopening. If we are successful in bringing coronavirus transmission under control, this threshold might be lowered over time. To further relax social restrictions and allow very large gatherings or meetings of people traveling from many different areas, for example, we would want a lower threshold.

>>12597914
See, you say it yourself. USA has flu, doesn't consider it a threat or lockdown cause, does little tests. Vietnam has covid, doesn't consider it a threat or lockdown cause, does little tests. USA gets covid, does insane amount of tests, gets locked. Meanwhile Vietnam wisely treats covid like flu.

>>12584963
kek covid is significantly safer than the vaccine

>>12597914
>Vietnam - 0.1% positivity rate
So, assuming that their testing is fully uniform and random, you can say that 100K Vietnamese have covid. But if it's not the case and they focus on small subset/test it repeatedly, then percent of tested turns into a small fraction of percent and you lose any possibility to know if general population has covid.

>>12597914
>USA is testing more because it has insane community spread, Vietnam does not.
Vietnam just ignores it, after all ignoring covid makes your year a bit worse than average in the worst case.

>>12597954
>Vietnam has covid, doesn't consider it a threat or lockdown cause,
When did they say this?

>does little tests.
As there are fewer hospital admissions

>>12595487
>As Swedish example shows, if you ignore lockdowns, no such things happen - instead you get a year better than several from decade before.

Is this why the man in Sweden who advocated this, admitted or was shown to be wrong with the current spikes in their 2nd wave?

>>12595534
This
Social Media was a mistake

>>12593848
>ignoring the question
>continuing to be complete incapable of reading comprehension

>>12594872
>ultra-mild covid-19 case from the vaccine
Are you retarded? The vaccine isn't giving you covid-19.
>probobly none
Probably almost the same number as those mentioned in OP. The rest likely died from the immune response (fever).

>>12584943
I never did.

>>12584943
Another iteration of
>everyone who drinks water dies

>>12594789
I have been on an /x/ discord and can confirm 90% of them have legit mental illnesses are retarded af. /sci/ is way more retarded than /pol/, /b/ is mega retarded and /his/ is pretty retarded.

>>12585147
Do you care if COVID deaths are related to the virus?

>>12585768
Talk to a therapist please

Is /sci/ bluepilled about vaxx or redpilled and based?

>>12597954
>Vietnam has covid, doesn't consider it a threat or lockdown cause, does little tests.
What? That's no correct at all. Vietnam took immediate and severe action, basically eliminated the virus, and now very little testing is required. That could change of course, but their test results, lack of hospitalizations, and few deaths prove that for now, things are under control.

>>12597965
>So, assuming that their testing is fully uniform and random
Why would it be uniform and random? They test the symptomatic, travelers, and health care workers. It sounds like you want the government to go knocking on people's doors and testing people at random, which makes no sense and would be a major waste of time and resources. People with symptoms who test positive will lead them to the communities that require more thorough testing. But that's simply not happening, a 0.1% positive test rate.

>>12597967
>Vietnam just ignores it
It's the opposite. Vietnam's actions early on are why they can live somewhat normally now.

>>12598624
/sci/ is neither red pilled nor based on any topic I have ever seen posted on this board. This is possibly the most cucked and blue pilled board on this website

Admit it, /pol/ was right.

The "cure" is worse than the disease.

>>12598642
You're a part of /sci/, retard.

>>12598649
No lol
Take your meds

>>12593542
>get a load of this guy
intricate trolling
or
Incurable butthurt

Either way you're a moron, clinical trials exist for a reason. Also mRNA vax with no long term trials...

next time you try to call someone out, don't be a brainlet

>>12589315
Dude, fauci said it himself. The vaccine doesn't grant immunity.

>>12598808
>The vaccine doesn't grant immunity
Then what was it supposed to grant? Sterilization?

>>12598974
Do your part.
Die, for a better Earth.

>>12598980
Answer the question, triggered senpai.

>>12598808
Fauci never said that.

>>12598974
resistance?

>>12598405
He answered the thrust of your argument and side-stepped the retarded rhetoric trap you were trying to set up.
You aren't being clever Pseud.

>>12598635
>Vietnam took immediate and severe action, basically eliminated the virus, and now very little testing is required.
No, it didn't. It simply did almost no tests back then, so cases of covid were ignored. It continue to do it now (while western countries just ramp up the testing), so it continues to have no problems with covid.

>>12598635
>Why would it be uniform and random?
Because otherwise it will further reduce the testing numbers and will make 99.9+% of population untested in the recent past. No tests - no covid.
>It sounds like you want the government to go knocking on people's doors and testing people at random, which makes no sense and would be a major waste of time and resources.
Am I reading it correctly? A covidist who wants destroy the economy and imprison people over the flu-tier disease now deeply cares about testing cost and claims that having test number above negligible is totally destructive and time-wasting? But of course it is, just because not doing it cancels the covid problem and lets the country to live free.
>But that's simply not happening, a 0.1% positive test rate.
As said above that would mean up to 100K infected even with the honest testing. But if you limit your testing on purpose, real number can be as high as possible.

>>12598353
No, he continues being right.

>>12598344
It's easier to heal flu at home (especially if ventilators are deadly).

>>12598635
>Vietnam's actions early on are why they can live somewhat normally now.
They did very little tests in the beginning which allowed them to declare the victory over covid. They continue to do almost no tests which allows them to continue doing that.

>>12598452
>everyone who drinks water dies
Sounds like all the covid scare in a nutshell.

>>12599705
>>everyone who drinks water dies
>Sounds like all the covid scare in a nutshell.
Covid is not just a scare, it's something that we need to take VERY SERIOUSLY if we are to not prevent the fall of civilization due to government "science."

Vietnam is great, but one should also mention such success stories like India (who is supposedly doing ten times better than US/Europe), Bangladesh/Pakistan (who are doing 20 times better) and Burundi who has thousand cases and two deaths in total. Burundi should be the new leader of the world, its covid victory is beyond incredible.