/sci/ - Science & Math

No.
The health services will be overrun and even something as simple as an infected wound could lead to your death because of it.

It's not solely because of the virus impact on individual health that all these measures are in place but it is due to the likelihood of severe collateral damage to society if it is allowed to rampage freely.

>>12551561
Life is not that fragile you dumb, raped suburbanite.

>>12551555
>3 out of 100 is low

>>12551584
Yes it is. The network of society could easily be brought to its knees if certain services are allowed to fail. One of the most important being the health service.

>>12551591
Isn't it?

It won’t be 2% when hospitals can’t treat everyone anymore.

>>12551555
>2.5%
>low
Idiot.

>>12551561
/thread

>>12551620
And other than disrupting our use of currency, how do you propose a lack of hospital services (playing along with your delusion) will bring society to its knees?

Again, you're a suburbanite. You're used to being fucked with constantly as a matter of routine. People in rural areas however know you can not go to a doctor, even for a checkup, for decades and be totally fine, In fact multiple studies show your health and lifespan increases by NOT going to your annual checkup. Chicken or egg aside, I can see how it works both ways.

>>12551555
They could just go with society wide isolation of actual risk groups, like clearing times for them to shop, organizing separate transportation or properly isolating old folks homes. But locking down everyone seems to be less of an effort, so I guess that's the way to go. Also for the retards ITT, 2,5% CFR is low

>>12551561
So is better if people lose their jobs, their businesses they feed their families with and basically the right to freely fucking be on the street doing your own thing, fuck off.

>>12551659
It's also significantly easier to live a healthy life in rural areas when you're not encumbered by stress, pollution, crime, deprivation etc.
Overall, why so callous? Why just let good and deserving people die off because they're more likely to be affected by the virus? Is it not worth a small sacrifice to improve chances of life for everyone? To help minimise suffering?

Tbh I'd rather see the fragile and weak people who can't handle a few months of lockdown as the ones who died. They're the true weak among us.

>>12551555
If everybody signs an agreement of not being treated at any hospital then Okay, proceed.

>>12551725
Because despite:
>It's also significantly easier to live a healthy life in rural areas when you're not encumbered by stress, pollution, crime, deprivation etc.
On the whole, they do it to themselves. There are so many problems, there are so many ways to alleviate suffering (and improve health) without having to resort to bolstering plutocratic dominance and submission, yet none of it has been explored over the last hundred years because they want dependent cattle. I'm callous because you eople disgust me and your ways spread like a disease. Whenever transplants arrive in my area it becomes obvious they want to turn this place into the same hell they tried to escape. Their warm and fuzzy notion of "we;re all taking care of each other" as they go to the doctor, go to this guy, go to that guy, have this one do this, have that one do that, is actually trauma bonding and abuse in disguise. They think they're working together with everyone else, in reality they're deeply violating the social contract, refusing to take responsibility, and they're not helping their community. Their God is man, his organization, and the collective, and the medium of that God is money. They submit. So they use money in place of community and being self sufficient. These are OFTEN, but NOT ALWAYS to be clear, not people you can call upon for any local project.

Lastly, covid is not a big deal. The stats make that clear, common sense makes that clear. Does th world need a NEw Normal, a Great Reset, etc? YEs, it actually does. Do we need to do it by becoming golem within UN, WHO, and WEF's script? Do we need technocracy and a biosecurity state? Do we need totalilatarian control and mass surveillance? Do we need to create a machine God to watch over and take care of us? Do we need to get rid of physical money and create a social credit system? That's the real conversation right now, not some stupid virus. Covid is a rapid social and economic reorganization.

>>12551561

>>12551659
>what is survivorship bias for 200
>what is the cycle of poverty for 400
>what is i died on the way to the hospital because it's over an hour away and i thought it was just a cold but oops it's pneumonia and i can't breathe now for 800 please
>what is quality of life and wellbeing for 1000 please

OP if you google it for five seconds Sweden already tried this, initially results looked positive and then they looked TOO positive with a higher death and infection rate than any of the other surrounding Scandinavian countries. In November Finland and Norway reported roughly 100 deaths with half of Sweden's population. In that same month Sweden reported over 1,700 deaths.

>>12551830
Spain has higher death per capita than Sweden and Spain had +2months of total national lockdowns. Your picture is just cherry picking bullshit.

>>12551698
Death by a virus is easy to tabulate or even inflate. Death by depression and destitution over time is more difficult to attribute to a specific event. If you're a politician, you know the former will be attached to your name but the latter can be ignored. The folks in charge will happily let ten times as many people die from things that cannot be attributed to their actions than to something that can be.

>>12551830
The surrounding countries don't have huge immigrant populations like Sweden does so they cannot be compared.
Isn't cherry picking fun?

>>12551862
This, I remember seing alot of the people with covid in Sweden were mainly the immigrant population

>>12551561
What is with you people? I swear you peiple want to be afraid and for covid to be more dangerous than it really is

>>12551830
>What is "Snarky bullshit" for 200
>What is "words for me to seem like I know what I'm talking about" for 400
Typical suburbanite. The hospital is an hour away here, and none of that happens. Sorry. It just doesn't. The rest are things you don't understand in your own context, much less a rural one.

Covid is not a big issue. Bolster your immune system, stop poisoning yourself, stop cowering in fear over media hype. I wear a bandana when I'm absolutely forced to and don't even bother to wash my hands beyond the usual. Bodies don't litter the street, there are no deaths out of the ordinary, it's literally nothing. And by the way, the report which report WHOA COVID CASES SURGE WE GOT 10 NEW DIAGNOSED CASES THIS WEEK, happen to have 5G. Just sayin!

>>12551555
Hey mate, do me a favor lad and stay in Italy and don't come to the United States or Anglosphere EU.

>>12551830
Died WITH Covid

>>12551873
They think a small cut will kill them because the place they come from wants them to be dependent and scared of the outside world. Like in Ergo Proxy, they told them that they couldn't leave the dome because there was a lethal virus out there. They believed it so much that a large percentage of the population actually died when they left. The remainder were treated by a guy who said he had a cure, but it was actually just water. Great metaphor.

>>12551555
>Would it make sense to reopen everything and just say fuck it who dies dies and the rest goes on with life?
Yes

>>12551845
you're literally cherrypicking in response to my comparison of similar nations. spain is an entirely different culture, way higher population (i know you said per capita but it's an important aspect of disease transmission), and the fact that sweden quickly rose to be in comparison to a very hard hit country is not a good thing, it's an extremely negative example of how quickly it can spiral out of control and make a country rise to the top in terms of cases.

>>12551862
they're also completely different nations. turns out, when you compare things they don't always line up exactly and you need to infer that they're not exactly the same. it's called best fit. the most similar countries to sweden are going to be other Scandinavian countries.

>>12551874
what's your sample size of this never happening, two neighbors half an hour away? being rural is not a good thing, but feel free to continue enjoying having no public services or community when you need it. you would not be able to live in the boonies if society did not first band together to create the systems you've used to allow you that lifestyle. literally the roads you use would not exist if we did not organize as a community and create a government. it's just so small brain, rural elitism.

>>12551698
You got that right, living is better than dying.

>>12551555
Why don't we just implement a market solution to this and internalize covidiot externalities by imposing a tax on going out, not wearing a mask, spreading anti-science propaganda, etc.? Covidiots likely have a high willingness to pay for their behavior if they're screaming oppression so loudly and we can fund things like healthcare and unemployment insurance with their money. Thoughts, econbros?

>>12551947
>it's just so small brain, rural elitism.
You're telling me things I already know (and never suggested otherwise) while attacking a strawman, and acting as though you're making some great point. Again. typical city slicker. You seem to be trying to justify yourself (morphing it into an attack, ie an alloplastic defense) instead of just noting common trends in industry and resource flux. Says it all. Obnoxious suburbanite.

>>12551963
>dying.
Maybe if you are +70 and have a weak body and previous illnesses

>>12551880
Why?

>>12551996
>covidiot can't read
Color me shocked

>>12551988
I think you should kys so you can't spread the virus

>>12551947
> it's an extremely negative example of how quickly it can spiral out of control and make a country rise to the top in terms of cases.
Yeah Spain still has more death per capita regardless and Spain had absolute lockdowns and complete shutdown restrictions, it still has, I live here.

>>12552001
Squandering human capital is economically inefficient and I assure you my human capital is extremely valuable.

>>12552052
You're just an egomaniac, nothing more

>>12552052
And yet they clamp and vaccinate, effectively crippling multiple generations.

>>12552003
i never disputed that.

>>12551992
k i mean we just have different thoughts on this, more wilderness and lack of people for you and more community for me.

>>12551659
We're talking about people who get injured or already have pre-existing conditions you absolute dunce.

>>12551857
>normal anual death rate is 1.1%
>let a virus roam free that kills 2.5%
>what_could_possibly_go_wrong.jpg
>yeah the 1.4% people that died additionally would've died anyways

>>12552165
>We're talking about people who get injured
For what reason and at what rate.

>have pre-existing conditions
For what reason and at what rate.

It's all excuses. I'm not going to do the thinking for you, it's up to you to come out of this shell where you have to make everything okay in your mind, and actually engage with reality. Discussing pros and cons of different (psycho)social ecologies is pointless with people who are not there yet.

>>12551555
>>12551555
0.98^2300

You can get it again and again...

Hope well.

>>12551830
8x (or less) of virtually nothing is still virtually nothing

>>12551555
> Would it make sense to reopen everything and just say fuck it who dies dies and the rest goes on with life?
In my opinion, that would make the most sense, yes.
At risk groups - the obese, the immunocompromised, the elderly - should be taking responsibility for their own health, taking whatever personal measures they feel is warranted. Society shouldn't be shuttering itself - causing mass poverty, misery, and ironically, death - just to buy these individuals a year or two of loneliness and hospital visits.

>>12551769

Again this thread. Ask yourself these questions first.
>where can I find the most athoritative data?
>which are the elementary questions to answer?
The CDC's data covers everything you need to know.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_vAQyVlXzU

>>12552254
Why do you just say these things?

>>12553632
Nice video. Thanks for sharing it. This whole pandemic bullshit is obviously just an excuse to control the population even further and push global draconian agendas. Is a fucking cherry picking operation to spread fear porn worldwide.

>>12553655
I don't know. Most feasable explanation imo, is a plutocratic sheme>>12551769. Who increases their wealth in these times? Who benefits from governments printing money?

>>12553533
imagine being this american

>>12553691
Seriously what a fucking moron. Some people only learn to care for themselves it seems like

It's funny that people look at the 2.5% in isolation and think it's not that bad. You do realise you're probably going to be catching this thing every year for the rest of your life? That's a 12% chance to die from it in the next 5 years, or a 22% chance to die from it in the next 10.

>>12553698
the absolute state of /sci/

>>12553698
So the odds of someone dying as they get older is actually a thing. I fucking knew it

>>12553691
That is how the world is supposed to be anon. The strong live and the weak die off. Furthermore with how many boomers it would exterminate it would save the country billions or even possibly trillions in health care costs in the future. Let them die off now so we wont have to pay for their chronic diseases in the future.

>>12551561
The more people that die, the better. The world is overpopulated.

No because it's an engineered virus that behaves like 'the cold' on steroids. it's not going away any time soon. we dun goofed.

>>12553698

the IFR is <0.5% you fucktard.

>>12551659
>Mr. McKenzie went to the doctor, discovered he had terminal skin cancer and died! Fucking doctors!
This is how you sound.

>>12553691
refute his point: that's right, you can't. fat fuck.

>>12553784
If you believe in conspiracy theories, you need to reconsider your mental health

>>12554784
>you are a conspiracy theorist if you disagree with the TV man!

nice argument.

>>12551555
You can get it every few months and it does not mean that you'll get milder and milder cases, you can have a mild case the first time and need to be hospitalized the second.
Also you risk several long term sequelae every time.The loss of smell and taste is a benign one but personally I don't want that kind of symptoms becoming a part of everyday life.

Fatality rate is around 0.5%

>>12551555
this shit is so what the fuck

i wouldn't close anything, and i'm not a swedecuck in denial, i literally do not care about how many would die but then again i don't mind normie activities being closed as i'd never step into a shit stained cinema and similar places

>>12553938
Clamped. All that needs to be said tbqh.

>>12553698
>doesn't understand how probability works
>doesn't understand the difference between CFR and IFR

Do the gene pool a favor and get a vasectomy please

>>12554827
>You can get it every few months
No. You get immunity.
>You risk several long term sequelae every time
In a comparable way you risk dying every time you travel by any means of transportation, including walking.

>>12551627
if 2.5% of America died it would be 7.5 million deaths

>>12551996
why do you have no care for the elderly?

>>12554907
There's too many people and too much competition for jobs and resources right now. We would be better off with a 7.5 million loss.

>>12551769
OK schizoid

>>12554919
They should die off. They're consuming resources that otherwise would make the younger more productive generations thrive. There should be an age limit of 80 and when you reach it you're executed.

>>12551874
>muh 5G
>shouting
I can't even tell if this us a joke

>>12554930
>>12554935
the fuck is wrong with you?

>>12554944
Brainlet.

>>12554919
coz they are nothing more than a burden on a society, simple as that

>>12554935
this, maybe even 70 like

>>12554935
>>12554950
Mommy and daddy didn't payed attention to you

>>12554982
He was clamped and vaccinated, ie spawn camped by the older generations, therefore he is mad that he cannot thrive.

>>12554982
yeah, so keep losing business coz sb grandfucks COULD die of some virus. This year alone I have lost more than 1m in profits due to lockdowns while not a single old fuck ever uses my stores. This is the state of society nowadays, fucking conformists.

>>12553781
Great, you can be first against the wall.

>>12554945
teenage edge

>>12554945
Nothing. What's wrong with you wanting to waste resources on chronic end of life care for nothing in return? You're the reason we can't get to the moon again.
>>12554982
They did pay attention and if it came down to it, I would support their euthanization at the age maximum.
>>12555071
I'm 31.

>>12554935
psychopath

just do like the terronies, move the virus from north to center and south and back up again, I swear 99% of them went "home" with no one catching them, fucking terronies dude...fucking terronies...

>>12555147
>You're the reason we can't get to the moon again.
Retard spotted, there's nothing on the moon worth going to again.

>>12555236
I care about people. I don't want people to live in squalor and hardship. You're the psychopath for ensuring they do by diverting resources to an extremely costly group of people who will be dead in a few more years anyways.

>>12551555

The infection fatality rate is <0.5%

>>12554784

Where's the theroy part, retard? Its fact.

>>12553781
/thread

>>12554919
OMG GUYS NOBODY CAN DIE OF ANYTHING EVER AGAIN WTF HOW ARE THEY DYING THEY'RE ONLY 90 YEARS OLDDD AAAA

Gentlemen, please, let us stop this bickering and come to our senses.

Whether the cost of social and economic restrictions is worth the cost reducing the impact of CV19 is besides the point.

The real point to consider is the coming waves of new diseases ( including ones entirely unrelated to CV19 ) which will make the present death toll look trivial.

Should we poo our pants? Why yes, yes, we should. Empty our bladders in an uncontrollable fashion too.

>>12555715
Yes, because we're going to get a sudden wave of hundreds of new diseases all of a sudden from nowhere.
How would you know that unless you admit to being in on making them?

>>12555723
Damn your impeccable logic! You got me there with your internet sleuthing.

Quick, someone, tell me how to erase everything I have ever posted.

>>12555736
What is it with you people and finding new, tangential excuses to leave the mask on under all circumstances (even after your precious COVID is gone)?

>>12555742
Point me to the part where I said anything about masks.
Besides, masks will be about as effective as placing a band-aid on an arterial wound in the long run when we have several different pandemics running concurrently. With a new one emerging every 2 or 3 years.
There! I said something about masks now. I didn't want to but you just had to keep backing me into a corner. Bully.

>>12555781
This is the standard implication whenever one talks about "yes BUT..." re: the end of covisteria.

>>12551561
This.
People don't seem to get that even if just 5% of the population needed hospitalization and long term care, our healthcare system would be overwelmed.
Major cities are literally out of ICU beds, it isn't the virus that kills you it is the lack of medical care for other injuries. The retard in a survivable car accident may not have gotten the care they needed because of too many covid cases.
>>12551627
For an easily transmitted virus, that is extremely high. For context, like 50,000 people died from the flu in 2019, >350,000 died from covid in 2020 in America. This does not include the number of people who have "long covid" or who will have fucked up lungs for life.

>>12551881
This is the most braindead boomer fucking response. This is like saying "He died with a gunshot wound, but what really killed him was bloodloss, so the shooter didn't kill him!"

>>12551561
Just don't put people over 75 on respirators

>>12551584
Yup. That’s why you clean your cuts. Lookup staf infections. Even fairly small stuff can put you in the hospital.

>>12551555
it never seems like it matters until it's someone close to you

>>12556910
my mother is a piece of shit

>>12556819
>People don't seem to get that even if just 5% of the population needed hospitalization and long term care, our healthcare system would be overwelmed.
Other than the criminally inaccurate Imperial College models that have been discredited, there's no reason to believe 5% of the population would need to be hospitalized simultaneously. It's doomer porn you've convinced yourself is the truth. You have zero evidence that such a level of hospitalization would happen. Zero. You simply wish it to be true so all of the suffering that has been inflicted on the public won't be for nothing.

>>12556966
>Other than the criminally inaccurate Imperial College models that have been discredited,
Wait, when were they discredited? Or is this just a case of "I don't like them, so they're not real"?

>>12553698
imagine being that retarded

>>12554919
Do you? do you think the elderly should be restrained from seeing their families in their dying years so they can die alone, accompanied only by the heart monitor beep, whist nurses that are doing recording tik toks in the hallways outside, because corona virus is literally the common cold and they literally have nothing better to do.

>>12551555
imagine thinking the coronavirus has a fatality rate of 2.5%

>>12551555
>The virus has a super low death rate
because the hospitals have sufficient capacity to treat everyone that needs it
when the infection levels rise drastically that wont be possible anymore and the death rate will skyrocket as a result
also, since the medical treatment capacity is limited, people will also start to die from other unrelated diseases that would have been treatable, simply because there is no capacity to treat them
this situation has to be avoided at all costs

>>12551555
Cowards say yes, brave men say no.
Liars say yes, truth tellers say no.
Science cultists say yes, men of good faith say no.

>>12557459
0.0215 is 2.15%, thats not too far off from 2.5%
what exactly is your point?

>>12557465
The opposite is true.

>>12554878
>No. You get immunity.
They told me I would be immune for 13 weeks. I'm well aware it's a rough estimation but it comes from somewhere. It's well known that some people got it twice last year.

>>12557470
This post is a lie.

>>12557466
The point was the 2.5% (or 2.15%) is a very crude way to measure the fatality rate.

>>12557523
it is, because there is a shlew of parameters that affect this rate
for the case of a pandemic simple statistical modeling and methods are not sufficient to give a proper representation of reality, for this a game theoretical approach is required

>>12557459
The USA always wins.

>>12557585
USA USA USA!!1

>>12553781
>The more people that die, the better. The world is overpopulated.
>not me tho

And then consider the long tern consequences:

>virus gets lots of new bodies to reproduce in, chance of a mutation increases
>every year there'll be a new strain somewhere that the population is not immune to
>it ravages 2.5% of the population every year
>Becoming over 70 becomes a game of russian roullette, pensions become pointless
>Because there are so many new strains the vaccine becomes harder and harder to create

Everything they're doing now is correct. The economic impact sucms but its the hand we were dealt by nature and it can either be moderately bad or extremely bad.

>>12553781
you are correct, our current standard of living is not sustainable and reducing the population is a effective measure to counter this
you should lead by example and kill yourself as a responsible adult that ahs reached that level of insight
i suggest carbon monoxide poisoning as thats rather painless suicide method, just make sure that no one who might discover you is exposed to any danger

>>12557681
>it ravages 2.5% of the population every year
see
>>12557543
>>12557462
this number does not tell the whole story and is a very crude way of putting the current crisis into something that can be grasped
this number is a singular, momentary point measurement at best , which makes it incredulous to draw conclusions from it alone

>>12551845
With sweden vs finland it is almost like a studying twins.
Comparing FI vs SWE reveals what the policy differences do.
With SWE vs ESP it's apples & oranges.

I feel like a lot of people in this thread are missing the fact that were in a situation where frankly there is no decision to make which won't harm people.

Doing nothing would leave to healthcare systems collapsing from the surge in cases and huge numbers of extra deaths from normally treatable medical issues.

Lockdowns and social distancing cause economic and psychological damage that will likely result in it's own serious health impacts and increased deaths.

The harsh reality is finding a balancing between the two which will limit the human impact the most.

>>12551845
With sweden vs finland it is almost like studying twins.
Comparing FI vs SWE reveals what the policy differences do.
With SWE vs ESP it's apples & oranges.

>>12557681
>pensions become pointless
Uh oh, another point for the conspiratards.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN29D0DX
Seems like we're in luck this time. But how long will our luck last? It's important to get the number of infections down, to simultaneously decrease the mutation rate.

>>12557749
The thing is that Finland, like Sweden, didn't rely on lockdowns but no one talks about it. So, yes, swe and fi do make for better comparison.

>>12557916
>>Finland, like Sweden, didn't rely on lockdowns
>source: my ass

>>12557916
Finns are permanently in self-imposed lockdown.
>source: kalsarikännit

>>12557749
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Norway&location=Sweden

>>12557705
Okay, even so, imagine everyone over 70 with a single medican condition being at an extremely high risk of quick death- forever from now on. Thats the problem we face if we let the virus ravage freely and produce too many strains.

>>12551555

Anyone remember the film jurassic park ? The mathematician looks at the problem and decides the park is not safe. Back in march I used maths to predict
COVID based on WHO data. after 67 days 100k worldwide infacted. 11 days later 200k 4 days later 300k. 67^R =100k means R is 1.17. 78^R=200k means R=1.18 82^R=300K means R is 1.17. All the lockdowns have done is temporarily suppress R. The virus mutates and R goes a bit high for a while (to catch up) R=1.4. But its strange attractor (again who was paying attention in jurrasic park?) is around 1.17. Try to stop nature. You wont. The vaccination will slow it for a while too. But then it will mutate and swing round it again. Most people did not understand the chaos maths expert in jurrasic park; seems like politicians dont either!

So OP YES! The R rate would go up initially but it would go back to its strange attractor 1.17 until it ran out of reseoucres.

Bit like when rabbits were released in OZ in the 1950's. They tried all sorts of nonsense to stop their population getting bigger exponentially, but in the end it balanced its self out.

>>12558445
maybe a good thing. I SAY THAT BEING 62 AND STILL ABLE TO RUN 10K THOUGH

>>12558514

>>12557611
I didn't assert this.

>>12558514
I never looked that hard at the numbers, but it was clear by the summer that we just simply were never going to successfully eradicate covid and our containment measures were doing realatively little to stop it

Nope. Maybe you are fine with your parents dying, I am not with mine. And so you will wear the mask you will and distance socially. If you lose your shitty McJob - I don't care lol. Should have worked on them grades. People like you need to be forced to conform so high value people like me can live well.

Don't let sellout and paid "experts" do the thinking for you.

>>12558804
I'm glad lockdownfags have started showing their true colors now

>>12558839
nice pic, except bill gates has a 160-180 IQ

>>12558936
If that was true, windows wouldn't be such a stinking pile of manure.

>>12551561
Imagine not knowing how to deal with a wound so it doesn't get infected in the 21st century.

>>12551555
See Sweden and the USA and India
vs
China
South Korea
Vietnam!
Japan

>>12551830
based and the mental acrobatics behind the critics is astounding

These same people were happily last year saying
>BUT IF ONLY WE FOLLOWED SWEDEN
with no mention of other factors they now cite as a reason for why the flying homer bbq pig is still good

now there's 50 excuses as to why it's not worked.

>>12557749
This
Pus Norway and Denmark

Key was NOT closing schools which had a massive positive impact in SE Asia as schools shhut down for months early to mid last year

>>12558976
These are poor comparisons especially since the trajectory of the virus is still not agreed upon.

The UK tried to freestyle it to keep SCHOOLS UNIVERSITIES open

With normal economic re-opening it simply spread freely

The issues are health resources. Can you cope with so many in hospital in peaks?

>>12551620
but it only kills 1% of those that get it. I thought we had an overpopulation problem?

>>12558992
Ok smart arse, why are they not valid comparisons in terms of political policy?

All have different setups socially economically and politically but all have dealt with it better than the US and the UK

>>12558994
>I thought we had an overpopulation problem?

We don't.
We have a resource distribution and lifestyle problem
See: Cayman islands and separately, Water scarcity

>>12558993
>The issues are health resources. Can you cope with so many in hospital in peaks?

Maybe people should stop feeling entitled to the life saving powers of the Gods.

>>12558997
Because the trajectory of the virus has a huge impact on spread. Other places may have simply had more viral load than others.

>>12551555
a gov't will neither save people nor stop a virus by killing an economy.

>>12557738
This. Companies, politicians, and medical experts are literally just doing whatever they can to minimize harm, but there is no perfect way to get rid of harm. This is the time you don't want much responsibility.

>>12559019
This was never cited in advocates for the Sweden model

>>12559074
No shit. Advocates aren't going to admit "we actually have no idea what we're doing."

>>12557738
THIS
There is no black and white

>>12551555
bad news for you...

>>12559302
Shills will call you schizo
Retarded true believers will post non-sequitors.

>>12557738
Ya... last i checked sweden's healthcare system didn't "collapse" and swedes are not an entirely different species of human which is largely immune to things that will kill everyone else.

you people are a fucking disaster and you'll never know it because you've chosen to surround yourselves with people who are even stupider than you

>>12551555
Yes unless your a needle dick like this homo >>12551561
if we told everyone it mutated into a far less deadly virus “cases” would go down dramatically and so would “deaths” even if they didn’t less fat and old people, more jobs for me.

>>12558982
what the fuck are you even talking about
you sound like some kind of fat retarded british boomer bitch LOL

>>12557738
Healthcare systems are a hoax, illnesses are made up so more meds can be sold and make money.
Let them fall. They ought to be ashamed of having such a big part of this drug-filled, cowardly and lying modern world.
COVID kills no more than the flu.

Together breathing (con-spir-acy),
Together seeing (co-vid),
They really got us,
Doing some silly believing.

>>12559370
Let me simplify it for your cholesterol fluoride addled brain:
>People advocated for Swedish approach
No mention of any points relating to different densities/migrants/viral loads etc etc

>People mention Swedish approach has clearly not worked
Same people who advocated the former, now bring up all these other factors as mitigations.

kek

>>12559077
What went wrong?

>>12559399

>>12559302
Why can we not have an ACTUAL economics general on here as /biz/ is fucking retarded?

Yes inter bank and structural lending pressures post 2008 fuckery were gonna cause pain but exploiting the current situation isn't going to prevent the ensuing collapse of much financial certainties

>>12559402
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2376

>>12559377
Turns out the flu was fake too.

>>12551555
I guess, but it's a big fuck you to healthcare workers, as they'll be overwhelmed for a few month.

>>12559408

>>12559377
>illnesses are made up
This is the science board, right?
Or are you that guy that never got sick in his entire 12 years old life?

>>12559377
You've touched on and melded several possibly coherent and individually debatable points into a pseudo-intellectual milieu of nonsense.

Fuck off
Read basic biology
come back
>Then fuck off again

>>12558945
>If that was true, windows wouldn't be such a stinking pile of manure
well the first version were great but it slowly got to shit
this is obviously due to the steadily increasing amount of poo's working on this over all of the years
it started as a white mans operating system created by big penis white straight programmers and turned into an abortion of the worst that the mankind has to offer "working" on it, making it more shit with every version

windows 7 really was the tipping point, with vista already showing first signs of decline

>>12557681

what do you think of the new P681 mutation that is taking the world by storm

>>12557459
Imagine believing made up numbers from worldwide organizations that are profiting from this

>>12559047
>Companies, politicians, and medical experts are literally just doing whatever they can to minimize harm
>Companies, politicians, and medical experts
>minimize harm
HAHAHAHAHAH

>>12559475
Pic related is the dominate way of thinking in software development now. Iterate quickly and don't care about quality. When something breaks, you can fix it. Trying to prevent things from breaking in the first place is too slow for the modern corporation.

>>12559527
based capitalism

>>12559529
(((capitalism)))

>>12554919
Can you tell me why 80-90 year olds are the first to get the vaccine?
It makes zero sense to choose them instead of people with severe lung conditions that are otherwise healthy, unless this is used as a test round where they think all old people might as well die.

>>12557749
HAHAHAHA

>>12551561
Life is precisely that fragile

You will never reopen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55569760

>>12551561
/thread
I'm glad to see there are still some intelligent people still on /sci/

>>12558839
Ah, shit. The wojaks.... I kneel....

Yes. It would remove the unfit from the gene pool and leave only the naturally impervious to covid-19. The costs would be very small.

>>12559510
Bloody P681 being a slag with juxtaposing to the amino acid 682-685 furin cleavage site

SLAG STRAIN

>>12551659
Most people in rural areas die way younger because they live more than 10 minutes away from a high complexity hospital. A heart attack for example is almost certainly lethal if you can't get to one quickly.
The amount of people living in rural settings is dramatically low compared to urban and suburban that's why your uneducated ass perceives that less people die there. If you applied the death rates of this to the urban population it would be s massacre , that's not even considering covid

>>12551555
I don't want to get the virus. Do you want to get the virus? How fucked in the head are you that you choose to get sick

>>12564076
Coward, have faith in your immune system and the body your parents have given you.

All the people at risk from COVID are net drains on the economy and already have one foot in the grave. A little cleansing of the dysgenic would do us all some good.

>>12564151
Common sense dictates injecting a mysterious serum into your body is a bad idea. Those stupid enough to take the vaccines are the ones who will be cleaned up.

>>12551988
>anti-science propaganda
Science itself is anti-science propaganda. That’s the point, to have multiple layers of scrutiny that literally never ends and forces you to constantly defend your position. If the scrutiny of fools makes you clutch pearls, your foundation is weak.

>>12564156
It’s not mysterious

>>12554930
what if the 3 closest people to you got covid and passed would you still feel the same? nvm you probably don't have anyone close to you

>>12564163
I don’t know how a PlayStation works but I’ll be damned if I get the first generation of one. Call me in 2 or 3 years.

>>12564171
The three people close to me who are most likely to die from it are already on their way out anyways and I’ve made my peace with that.

So when all the virus experts have been warning about a pandemic like this happening, why would it not happen again and again and again?

>>12564204
It could which is why governments and corporations need to prepare the healthcare infrastructure and industry
But they won’t because they’re greedy kikes

>>12564171
That would be 90% not 2.5% you mathlet

>>12557489
>some people
There's your answer, if you have a functioning immune system the risk of getting it twice are extremely low, and even if it does happen it's not like it becomes reset, you still have t cells that react to the virus

>>12551555
>only 1 in 40 people die from it so deal with it
lol

>>12551555
Yes, that would make sense , but is not ethical and we would basically need to accept to see bodies in the streets for months

>>12554790
Where is your knowledge in inmunology, shithead?

>>12555723
Not from nowhere, but from fucking nature. We live crammed, and this allows easy spread for virus and/or bacterias. It is a matter of time that we get another human-animal jump

>>12551555
It's what is happening in Arizona. Short term the economy is booming compared to shutdown states.

>>12559344
>Swedes aren't dying
Anon... Swedes are now like misnks

>>12565010
actual death rate (IFR) is 1 in 200

>>12551561
And just when I was begging to think /sci/ was shill-free. Getting on with life is more important than a cold for anyone under 40.

>>12556901
I have never cleaned my shallow cuts from a young age
I've maybe gotten 100-1000 of such cuts in my life and never had any problems just licking them if they hurt

>>12566273
>And just when I was begging to think /sci/ was shill-free
you show up. I do see how money is more important than showing intelligence on 4channel though.

>>12556901
Cleaning is detrimental if done incorrectly. Blood drips out for a reason; namely to wash out any external shit that doesn't belong in the blood stream.

>>12551988
Just get your vaccine quickly and you should be immune to us covidiots. And the scary scary virus should kill us soon enough.

I do agree with a FREE market solution tough. You wanna stay looked up in your home hoarding toilet paper? Do it. You wanna risk a 0.02% death rate IF infected to keep feeding your family? Do it.

>>12566359
>should kill us soon enough
>risk a 0.02% death rate
Hurrrr muh death rate.
Fucking idiot.

>>12551555
Yes I completely agree

>>12551561
this post must be a nurse

>>12551561
This. Also it might seem weird but I actually like my parents and grandparents a lot.

>>12566359
The free market solution sadly is only freedom for people with money. If you work a high social contact job or have to rely on public transport to earn your living you're fucked. Expecially if you have kids.

>>12551555
Yes it would
if everyone just pretended it was nothing then no one would even notice these "deaths"

>>12557459
You're right, it's actually 1.9/(49.1+1.9) = 3.73%

>>12564160
>fools practice scrutiny
FAIL.

>>12551830
That ain't shit lol

>>12566935
My country has had 3 times more extra youth suicides due to the lockdown than COVID deaths. The cost of keeping old people alive for a couple of extra years is very high

>>12551988
>just implement a totalitarian police state lmao

>>12554784
Conspiracies happen everyday genius

>>12557681
They have no chance of eradicating covid

>>12558936
Lmao

>>12551555
Yes.

>>12551561
/thread
Im honestly suprised by the amount of retarded normalnigger replies.

>>12562870
It’s not about intelligence, it’s about how much you’re willing to sacrifice to keep the weak alive

>>12564151
My bf is very high risk and L6 at Amazon
What do you do?

>>12568817
it’s not about how much you’re willing to sacrifice to keep the weak alive, its about how many youre willing to sacrifice to keep the financially and psychologically weak alive

>>12554784
Gulf of Tonkin was a conspiracy.

>>12556831
maybe for some cases, but for others, such as cancer patients being marked covid deaths, the analogy is more like someone gets shot and falls on a tack and is reported as a tack death.

Good news everybody. The virus has mutated again and we no longer need to wait for people to get vaccinated before reopening the economy. It's a miracle! Get ready to go back to not saving and spending every cent you bring in. It's very important to the economy to no longer be scared of the coronavirus. The threat has passed. Come out for the concerts. Go to an NFL game. Buy some new clothes. Get out of your house and buy stuff. It's safe again!
Hallelujah, it's over!

>>12556831
>>12568993
More the other way around. Someone gets shot and people they say he died of bloodloss but with a fresh gunshot wound so we should probably count him as gun associated death.

>>12564151
>drains on the economy
Imagine working a normal hard job for decades, paying your taxes, keep working after a bad diagnosis, looking forward to your last few years living life to the fullest and then just before you reach that point get told by some somethings that blog for a living they drain the economy and just just go suffocate to death for the sake of party and shopping.

More research showing the pandemic is about to come to an end. Those who have antibodies to sars-cov-2 have lasting immunity. If you've had covid or have been vaccinated, you can take your mask off in a couple of weeks. You will also soon be able to move freely and gather without restriction. The fear that immunity would be short lived has turned out to be false, as discovered just yesterday. It's nice that all of these studies are concluding in a way favorable for getting rid of all of that nastiness of the past four years.

>>12551659
>how do you propose a lack of hospital services (playing along with your delusion) will bring society to its knees?
Did you seriously just ask how not having access to medical care might harm people?
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

>>12571020
This is good news but the snag is vaccine distribution. Still no good data if the vaccine reduces transmission of the virus so these measures will need to stay in place until the majority of people get immunity, particularly healthcare workers and at risk populations.

>>12571048
"The measures" are just giving people a little taste of what's to come.

>>12571048
"These measures" are just a little warm up run for whatever comes next.

>>12571048
Nah. None of that matters any more. The pandemic is over. They're going to reopen everything, remove the crowd restrictions, and let people smell freedom again. It's going to be like in 1981 when the American hostages Iran had been holding were released as Ronald Reagan was sworn in as president. It's a new era. An era of unity. An era of healing. No looking back at the bad stuff that happened over the last year. We're building back better.

the issue with the coronahoax is hospital capability, that's why we're still playing the lockdown game.

>>12555430
>Medical imaging improvements aren't worthwhile.

>>12571020
Okay, just read the study, and not nearly as impressed with the results as the headline led to believe. There was a dramatic drop off in immunity over the course of six months. Their main point was that there still should be some degree of immunity at that point, *and* it may not be sterilizing immunity, meaning the person could still be a spreader. Don't take the mask off until a large portion of the population is immunized.

take the vaccine. turn into edward g robinson

If you throw the vaccine at a population with high prevalence of SARS Cov 2 you are just asking for escape mutants. Controlling the spread before and during the vaccine rollout is the most important time to do so.

>>12572045
>4 / 100000 chance of getting temporary Bell's palsy
>vs 10-20% change of permanent organ damage, IQ loss, bad time for weeks if not months
If it weren't a nothingburger consistent with the background rate of Bell's palsy in the general public, the choice would still be obvious.

>>12572116
>10-20% change of permanent organ damage
retard

Here in Australia we have mostly eradicated COVID by forcing everyone who comes in from anywhere into jail for 2 weeks.

>>12557738
When I get the flu I dont rush to the hospital and congest the healthcare systems, I just stay home until im better. The same would apply to 99% of people that get covid, considering its just a common cold.

>>12572231
>considering its just a common cold
Correct.

>>12572231
>>12572233
The flu clogs healthcare systems every winter you retards. COVID doesn't even be much worse than a seasonal flu to push them to the limits, but it is.

>>12572238
>The flu clogs healthcare systems every winter you retards
Then whats new with covid? Should we lock down every winter then? At least in Australia, we've heard ad nauseam from the government and tv programs about "coping with covid" and "Looking after your mental health during coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions", And globaly 2020 has been considered the worst year a lot of people alive today have lived through, hence all this "we made it through 2020, glad that year is over" shit on social media. Lock downs have had a mental toll on people, suicides are up 1%-145% (im not sure why the range is indecisive, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle) ,All this because some people are dying of natural causes? Not to mention the economic stagnation we've accrued because of the lock-downs.

>COVID doesn't even be much worse than a seasonal flu to push them to the limits, but it is.
it's barely any worse, the flu vaxing is 100% free every year, yet no gives a fuck to get it anyway despite "my healthcare systems are clogged every winter"

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352
suicides

>>12553533
For a year now I've been forced to stay in what essentially is my own supermax in isolation, just because people like you can't postpone a vacation to fucking Spain or italy or whatever for one year
Kill yourself my dude

>>12572231
There's viral and post viral pneumonia
Influenza has complications
Don't extrapolate an entire data set from your life

>>12572265
>it's barely any worse
if you wanted source its pic related
If you are wondering how the fear mongering 2.5% fatality rate for Covid-19 is calculated, see >>12557459 >>12557523 they are very crudely calculated, as most people that get covid are asymptomatic, not sick enough to visit the doctor, or don't want to get pozzed and quarantined. Thus they are not tallied as a case
https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

>>12551555
I'd say yes but imagine being part of the government that killed everyone's granny

>>12551555
That's why we have cool new mutant strains in England and South Africa, genius.

>>12572305
These are not dangerous

>>12572265
>Then whats new with covid? Should we lock down every winter then?
The flu brings hospitals to capacity, COVID beyond
>At least in Australia, we've heard ad nauseam from the government and tv programs about "coping with covid" and "Looking after your mental health during coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions",
Good.
>And globaly 2020 has been considered the worst year a lot of people alive today have lived through, hence all this "we made it through 2020, glad that year is over" shit on social media. Lock downs have had a mental toll on people, suicides are up 1%-145% (im not sure why the range is indecisive, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle) ,All this because some people are dying of natural causes? Not to mention the economic stagnation we've accrued because of the lock-downs.
Lockdown deaths are with near certainty not a relevant thing in first world countries. If you read the study you knew that lockdown suicides are a consequence of mismanagement.

>>12572299
Long deboonked Ioannidis meta analysis, which conflates local seroprevalence in high exposure areas with country wide deaths and countries that simply have few old people to die from COVID. Hospitals in London don't care if there is a low hospitalisation rate in Afghanistan or Nigeria.

>>12551555
>Would it make sense to reopen everything and just say fuck it who dies dies and the rest goes on with life?

Yes.

It never made sense to lockdown, it was always a political decision. The fucking WHO recommendation was to protect the vulnerable and let natural spread and herd immunity do the rest until mid 2020 when they silently changed their recommendations to be the exact opposite.

The only fucking thing politicians had to do was nothing at all. But they fucked up even that too. At this point I wish the system haves a seizure and just fall apart because the value of it is in the deep red negative.

>>12572330
>New mutant strains in England and South Africa
>These are not dangerous
It’s more contagious and the strain in South Africa is killing younger people.

>>12572331
The flu brings hospitals over capacity in December on occasion, this however is more due to political design. Politicians look at average occupancy during the year, see that 9 out of 10 places are occupied on average and decide that a good cost cutting decision is to reduce the total beds to 9 because the extra staffing to keep the 10th bed cost money. Thereby they save 100 000 euros a year.

The end result of this is a healthcare system that always operate at 100% with no slack at all. And then they decide that they need lockdowns to prevent the healthcare system, that they sabotaged, from getting overrun. At a cost of 50% of the GDP. Roughly 500 000 000 000 euros. Then they blame the population for causing the lockdown. While the only actual evidence we have is of the politicians dismantling the healthcare system there no evidence that lockdowns significantly prevent hospital overload, only that it's costly in a completely unsustainable way.

>>12572356
>The fucking WHO recommendation was to protect the vulnerable and let natural spread and herd immunity do the rest until mid 2020 when they silently changed their recommendations to be the exact opposite.
They did this because protecting the vulnerable does not work when you have a high prevalence in the general population.

Furthermore, WHO recommendations are based on a retarded evidence system that restricted them from recommending non-pharmaceutical interventions because the quality of evidence for those have been low previously.
tl;dr, never try something new

>>12572383
>Politicians look at average occupancy during the year, see that 9 out of 10 places are occupied on average and decide that a good cost cutting decision is to reduce the total beds to 9 because the extra staffing to keep the 10th bed cost money.
This is a pretty dumb take. Hospital beds are occupied with people that need a hospital bed and then filled with people that don't really need one up to 90% occupancy. 2020 will have seen less knee and back operations than any year before, to absolutely no loss. This is why hospitals are always full. During a strong flu year, these non-obligatory operations get postponed. During a strong covid outbreak, the obligatory treatments for people that really need it are impacted too and this is the difference between flu and covid hospitalisation burden.

>>12551555
I think all the masks and lockdowns do is cause the virus to evolve to be more harmful and better at spreading. Though you need to keep people who get sick at home. If we look at the last few major virus events they all fizzled out. This was do to people who got low harm variants of the virus out running and out spreading the more deadly variants.

>>12572412
back when we had ships and horses. A virus needed to be able to survive in a hosts for a few months. today a 36 hour bug can get to most of the population in a few weeks.

>>12572412
Why are all the shit mutations from countries with rampant outbreaks then?
South Africa, Britain, Brazil?
I see no New Zealand or Australia variants around, even they had the strongest interventions.

>>12572331
>Long deboonked Ioannidis meta analysis
By who? You?
>which conflates local seroprevalence in high exposure areas with country wide deaths and countries that simply have few old people to die from COVID. Hospitals in London don't care if there is a low hospitalisation rate in Afghanistan or Nigeria.
the study looks at the IFR of different countries

Any other meta analysis does not find fatality rates anywhere near 2.5% which is commonly espoused.

>Ubiquitous mental anguish
>Good.
Are you a sadist or something?

>>12572368
>Source: my ass.
Cool story bro. Now do an overview of the other 200k mutations that have been registered and write an equally scary hype bullshit story about each of them.

>>12572420
they were able to stop it. also, those countries are pretty wild covid already crossed over to minks and back. So I'd guess primates would have similar effects.

>>12572430
>the study looks at the IFR of different countries
IFR is calculated from total covid deaths and seroprevalence. The studies he took in often overestimate seroprevalence by not being representative for the whole country.
Reality already disproved several of them as the population fatality rate in some places is above the Ioannidis IFR.
See this more as an attempt to save his face after the santa clara study.
>Are you a sadist or something?
No. Australia takes care of the mental health of its inhabitants and informs them about the risks. This is a good response during successful NPI. As a negative example, the US has little success with their interventions and few people even give a fuck about the consequences, here are your 600 coronabux to shut up. The overall impact of 2020 on our lives largely depends on good policy making, which is very possible even with strict lockdowns, but also can be absolutely botched by incompetence.

>>12572407
>This is a pretty dumb take.
You unintentionally agree with me in your next sentence, but it's still dumb.
>then filled with people that don't really need one up to 90% occupancy
Because if you leave 40% beds empty for a few exceptionally calm months then they're permanently gone once the politicians get wind of it. I'm a physician, I have several years of work experience, I've been sitting at the fucking table with the lead nurse to discuss how to play the political game and I've seen the results of politically driven restructuring in action, first hand experience. But a political apologist like yourself obviously knows better.

>2020 will have seen less knee and back operations than any year before, to absolutely no loss
Being unable to walk in addition to being unable to see anyone is totally conductive to mental health? No loss, at all. You forgot to mention the unnecessary cancer operations, as you're obviously an unconscious drone that lives to tongue the unwiped anus of any and all politicians on the planet you might as well go all in.

>During a strong flu year, these non-obligatory operations get postponed.
Because the orthopedicians and neurosurgeon suddenly decide to man the intensive care ward or internal medicine ward? You are a clueless retard whose self appointed goal in life is to apologize and defend each and every politicial decision, no matter how stupid.

>>12572440
Your arguments were already debunked
Here's my list of sources to counter your sources:
>you provided no sources, so here's an empty set: []

>>12557681
slibbeby slope fallacy

>>12572464
You don't know that a decent share of knee or in general joint operations are unnecessary?
You don't know that during stron flu years, operations are regularly postponed?
You claim that COVID patiens should just stay at home and not go to the hospital?>>12572231
You are not a physician, but a retard.

>>12551555
ivermectin is a cure, vaccine is death

>>12572435
>And a new report has claimed that the mutation is targetting the young people as most of the cases have been reported in people under 20 years of age.

>The report by the Imperial College in London also suggests that measures like social distancing that have been taken to curb the spread of Covid-19 do not work against the new variant.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wionews.com/world/does-new-covid-19-strain-affect-young-people-more-353928/amp

>>12572499
>The report by the Imperial College in London also suggests that measures like social distancing that have been taken to curb the spread of Covid-19 do not work against the new variant.
It's not really what they said. Most likely it spreads more in younger people because of schools and universities. The social distancing became not ineffective, but less effective. The new variant infects about 14% of seondary contacts instead of 10 for the old variant IIRC.

>>12572494
>You don't know that a decent share of knee or in general joint operations are unnecessary?
Moving the goalposts already? I'm not surprised.
>You don't know that during stron flu years, operations are regularly postponed?
Operations are postponed for all kinds of reasons but usually for weeks. What we're doing now is delaying things by several months or entirely canceling them. And here you sit with shit on your nose and say that all these operations were of no use to the patients anyway.
>You claim that COVID patiens should just stay at home and not go to the hospital?
Strawmanning me for another anon, that's rich.
>You are not a physician, but a retard.
And to top it off, the ad hominem by the mad hominem. With a sprinkle of jealousy. I can already see your next rage filled post, more of the same, your worthless opinion.

>>12572517
They are postponed for months because people like you think it's a nuffinburger and keep the case load high.

>>12572118
>I'm so scared of the virus that I refuse to inform myself about its properties
no u

>>12551555
So i've got a great idea how to demonstrate to you why we shouldn't do this. I'm gonna get a gun and shoot at you 6 times. You tell me which of those shots you think had a 2% chance to kill you and which of those shots had a 100% chance to kill you. Thankfully at the end of the end of this experiment there will be a 1000% chance you will have STFU.

>>12572700
>schizoid ramblings
You're still not leaving your basement so why does it matter to you. Let the rest of us enjoy life again.

>>12551947
>what's your sample size of this never happening, two neighbors half an hour away?
If an illness kills you sudden and quickly enough that you can't make it to a hospital an hour away, you wouldn't have made it to a hospital 15m away either. Exceptions to this are very rare.

>being rural is not a good thing
Except less pathogens, less noise and light polution, access to nature, more privacy and a lot more. You've never lived outside your urban bubble and it shows.

>rural life, no community
I've lived in both, small town and big city. Nobody knows the names of the people on their street in the city. In the small town, you know everybody.

>you would not be able to live in the boonies if society did not first band together to create the systems you've used to allow you that lifestyle.
A city takes a fuckload more of infrastructure and organization than rural villages. Open up a history book and look up what came first, village or city.

>>12572805
>Except less pathogens, less noise and light polution, access to nature, more privacy and a lot more. You've never lived outside your urban bubble and it shows.
Not that Anon, I just read this part and have to agree. I've lived both lifestyles. I'd buy a farm if I could and never move into the city again. I know, nobody cares.

>>12572499
>Imperial College in London
Why would anyone trust anything from Imperial? Their criminally flawed model is what created this moronic overreaction. They should be shutdown and the whole place burnt to the ground. They're not doing science there, they're basically witch doctors. In any other field, being as wrong as Imperial College was would get you booted out of that field and possibly referred for criminal negligence. But because of political reasons, Imperial is treated like their historic fuckup didn't happen and that they're still a credible source of information. That place should be nuked.

>>12551627
anon, if 2.5% of people died it would absolutely fuck up the country

>>12573006
Quite fucking true.

>>12573013
Depends on who dies. 2% of the workforce would be horrible. 2% of minors would be pretty bad. 2% of retired people would be...beneficial in fiscal terms.

>>12551555
Yes I hope nigger and chinks go first.

>>12573013
In reality, it wouldn’t kill that many people. Also, mostly old people who weren’t really doing anything: out of 350k+ deaths in the US, a grand total of 9000 were people 45 and under. Most countries could totally shrug this shit off if we just got grim as fuck.

>>12572440
>The overall impact of 2020 on our lives largely depends on good policy making
No, everyone has coped shit because of lock-downs, all the mental help cope from the Aus government is clearly triage and everyone is aware if it and miserable. And the economic stagnation is still paramount.

>>12573355
If an access of old people died in 2020 and 2021, there would be less senior deaths in following years (because they're already dead). all we are doing is postponing death (by natural causes) for some old people, which ironically enough, are all against lock downs, as they'd like to spend their dying years with their family, rather than isolated (anecdotal).

>>12551555

anon, the IFR of this virus is well beyond 5% when the hospital capacity is maxed out.

that being said, I fully support the collapse of our society by re opening everything and allowing for mass gatherings.

The politicians and corporations are panarnoid that their customers and constituencies would die off and the social order would unravel.

I fully support opening everything.

>>12551555
1.6 percent of all Italians alive at the time died in WW1, and 1.1 percent in Italy. So you're okay with around two World Wars (not considering population growth since then) worth of Italians dying.

>>12575051
Were most of the Italians who died in WWI elderly with tons of pre-existing conditions?

>>12575106
Is that what you say when asked to put on a mask? "Who really cares about old people, anyway?"

>>12551555
The catch is the evidence for "long covid" is increasing, just because you don't die doesn't mean you are fine.

>>12551555
Yes. Supposedly we have two options

1. Kill off our society and mental health with permanent lockdowns, go to sub basement.
2. Some people who are already terminally ill might die.

Right now we seem to be getting both at once, may as well spare the culture and mental health.

>>12575254
That's a false choice
The lockdowns only seem permanent because of the mammoth amount of morons who violate them, strengthening and lengthening the peak the lockdown was put into place to combat, and because governments bow to pressure and end them before they've brought down the infection rate sufficiently.

If truly everyone went home and didn't come out for 2 weeks in March, there would be no pandemic, simple as that, because it couldn't have spread.

>>12575254
this

>>12557749
>With sweden vs finland it is almost like studying twins.
Is it really? Finland received 10k foreign-speaking immigrants in 2019. Sweden received 60k foreign-speaking immigrants in 2019 despite only have twice Finland's population. Overall, the foreign population is roughly 10% for Finland and 20% for Sweden. The difference is staggering. This is important because Immigrants are both more likely to contract the disease and die from it.
>Immigrants from low- and middle-income countries from the Middle East and Northern Africa displayed more than three times higher mortality among men (HR: 3.13; 95% CI: 2.51, 3.90) and two times higher among women (HR: 2.09; 95% CI: 1.52, 2.89), as compared to those born in Sweden.

>>12575289
If those scared of the virus just kept to themselves, we wouldn't even need to worry about a lockdown at all and no one would die.

>if you get covid you either die or make a full recovery
maybe we don't want to deal with the long-lasting side effects?
I know someone that got it 7 months ago and her sense of taste and smell is still fucked

>>12554784

This is what people said about the NSA rumors before Snowden popped up. Nice try though.

>>12575303
It'll be interesting to see how people respond to the long term effects if we just let it loose, when half the population is fucked for life will people still be saying it's fine because only 1% died?

>>12575318
>when half the population is fucked for life
>Source: my ass

>>12575318
Wonder what the rates of MI and CVA will be in the following decades with rising obesity and the hypercoagulability of long-COVID.

>>12568748
>>12568984
>>12575315
While some conspiracies are very real all that are have a logical reason for happening be it stopping a nation gaining nuclear capability or overthrowing a government that hurts your trade.
I'm yet to see a logical reason for covid to be deliberate that does leap to "every government on earth agreed on something for the first time ever".

>>12575329
>hypercoagulability
I didn't know that was one of the effects, combine that with sitting at a desk 8+ hours a day being normal and we could see some real issues.

>>12575332
That's only the most outlandish covid conspiracies. The likelihood of there being a conspiracy on the scale of say, companies paying governments to prevent research on drugs, companies paying governments to extend lockdowns and media massively overexaggerating the risks of covid and downplaying the tragedy caused by lockdown is pretty reasonable.

>>12575332

I don't doubt the science, just the way it's being pushed. It bears clear signs of information warfare and memetic contamination. This combined with the fact that the narrative is being split into two camps and alternative cures being silenced, it's clear there is a more nefarious agenda behind the curtain.

>>12575295
>It can't be the stark policy differences, it must be muh immigrants!
ok

>>12575315
It took decades for continental drift to be accepted, therefore Bigfoot must exist.

X was disbelieved, so Y is true is a beyond retarded argument.

>>12575356

Snowden just proved that the powers that be do not give a fuck about you or your rights, and they still do not. You are cattle.

>>12575365
whoosh

>>12575372

Sounds like denial. Whatever, enjoy your descent into abject dystopia.

>>12575353
Except it is factually verifiable that immigrants are a significant factor in the equation. I would gladly argue that governments should pay particular attention to these people in order to save their life. You can call me racist if you want but in a strange twist of fate you would also deny my plea to save their life.

>>12575289
>just two more weeks!!!

please, if you want to have blind faith in le science man on TV, be my guest: don't destroy my life because youre a neurotic busybody with a need for petty control. stick to reporting le badbad thoughts on reddit, that's more your speed

>>12575356
hello glowie.

>>12557681
>virus gets lots of new bodies to reproduce in, chance of a mutation increases
And that's exactly what is happening now, and we were laughed at by covidiots when we pointed out months ago that letting it circulate would result in mutations. Now we have this shit going on again in Manaus (b-but muh here immunity) with what looks like a new strain detected by Japan from people returning from Brazil, also the south African one, and of course the British one. One does not need an IQ of 150 to understand that letting the virus circulate exponentially also exponentially increase the likeliness to see new strains appear, but here we are.

>>12572383
>The end result of this is a healthcare system that always operate at 100% with no slack at all. And then they decide that they need lockdowns to prevent the healthcare system, that they sabotaged, from getting overrun.
Are you really a physician? Because a physician is supposed to at least knows what an exponential is. You don't fight an exponential with linear means. Double the hospital capacity if you want
Triple it, even. All you win against Covid is a mere 2 weeks at best.

>>12575985
>One does not need an IQ of 150 to understand that letting the virus circulate exponentially also exponentially increase the likeliness to see new strains appear
I, too, thought like you. I'm afraid such an IQ IS a prerequisite to understand it though, judging from the behavior of humans during a pandemic.