/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12554862
That's an interesting study. Can you do it again?

>>12554862
Yes. Once you starting readin ghr literature oyu realize most of medicine is just an illusion to prop up the medical-industrial house of cards. The causes of most diseases are known.

>>12554862
>how do people like this get published?
Implying "getting published" is, by itself with no other conditions, proof of your article being worth anything.
It's your responsibility to curate the stuff you see.

>>12554869
what do you mean?
is it actually correct?

>>12554959
I'm an adhd retard, and as I didn't take my meds, I surmised that OP was proposing another flavor of the month supplement as panacea, from briefly looking at the post and the study.

>>12554862
>take DNA test
>see hereditary hemochromatosis gene
>increases intestinal iron absorption to the point of disease (for some people)
Feels good man.

>>12554862
Here's the real truth about ADHD from someone with a high IQ (relatively) and ADHD and taking meds for it

It simply isn't real. Has your OP indicates the restlessness can be caused by countless things, like nutrient deficiency. Another big one is it is just a personality trait where you seek stimuli more than the average guy. Just the same way someone with a social personality seek out social stuff more then the average guy. I love my meds too much to quit them, but that doesn't mean I think ADHD is something real in the sense that it is disease.

>>12554973
>another flavor of the month supplement as panacea
there has to be one
pls give it to me
>>12554993
i don't like it
i want it to go away
i want to be able to read books

>>12555047
>i want to be able to read books
this is how you tell apart anxious midwits like the other guy from real adhd.
From my exp meds help with that part.

>>12555047
Why are you projecting this much. I never said I don't like my socalled ADHD. I fucking love it because it allows me to read books days straight or anything else for that matter as long as it really peaks my interest. The scattered mind makes me really creative too. I really fucking love it and wouldn't be without it. Only thing that sucks is I have a hard time doing boring stuff (like most people). On top of this I get cheap medical grade drugs. I love it

>>12555059
>hurr durr my adhd is worse than yours
shut the fuck up faggot

>>12555068
I meant that based on that, yours is adhd, contrary to this specimen's
>>12554993

>>12554993

> Another big one is it is just a personality trait where you seek stimuli more than the average guy.

Psychiatry says just this. When a trait becomes a disorder is when it starts to cause problems in your daily life and leads to a loss of function. If it never caused you any issues you were simply misdiagnosed

>>12555103
I AM that guy you call a "specimen". I care so little of your diagnosis of me as I already know the truth about ADHD as layed out in my post (>>12554993)

Now, go be a faggot on plebbit instead where you can get up-vote points for telling everyone about your crippling (((mental disease))) and how severe it is and how it is real because you read it in a newspaper or heard it in a youtube video from a guy with pic related phenotype. But most importantly, before it is too late: KYS!

>>12555127
The point is that this personality trait worked great before the modern world emerged. It is a great personality for warriors, explorers and the likes, but it is much harder to fit it in in the modern world where you almost have to be a bureaucrat just to do the most basic stuff

>>12555134
dilate and seethe

>>12554862
>Iron supplementation (80 mg/day) appeared to improve ADHD symptoms in children with low serum ferritin levels suggesting a need for future investigations with larger controlled trials

I think you just don't know how to read. They aren't suggesting all kids take iron, but that deficiency could be a culprit for some symptoms. They aren't going to say something so concrete as that iron different causes ADHD because it's a paper and not a popsci article like you are used to. You do also realize that ADHD is an umbrella term for a disorder characterized by symptoms and not a casual diagnosis right?

>>12555140
Yes so? We live in the modern world, and it is built around education and being able to function in a school setting. It is no secret in psychiatry that what we consider as defective is just what makes us unable to act normative

>>12555163
The problem is that the pshyciatry says that oh the world changed incredibly much in 50 years. So much that we now define your personality as a disease and you have to take this drugs even though you are only 8 years old. Instead of doing what they should do: telling the parents that "your little young boy is too restless and energetic to thrive in a normal school. Here's some alternative schools you can check out"

>>12555161
kys

>>12555197
Well society DID change that much in 50 years, otherwise these kids wouldn't feel they are falling behind because of their ADHD. I think that as a society we put too much blame on education and intellectual values in general, but if we just told those who don't fit in to "do your own thing" we'd just be creating a new underclass of misfits. I know plenty of people with ADHD who were treated and are now fully adjusted into white collar society. In fact we even have one in my class. I remember our psychiatry teacher last semester told us that the most successful people are often those with ADHD who learn how to deal with it, because as you say they are more energetic wit higher arousal levels than the average person

>>12555270
too much value on education and intellectual values in general*

>>12555270
>but if we just told those who don't fit in to "do your own thing" we'd just be creating a new underclass of misfits
It is exactly the opposite. Trying to hammer everyone into the same mold is what creates outcasts and missfits. We need to stop pretending everyone is the same and has the same abilities if they only get the right up-bringing and education. It simply isn't true

>>12554862
>quacks exist
>that means everything is bullshit
You are making the same assumptions you are denouncing.

>>12554873
Or buy a peer reviewed database subscription.

>>12554862
If you trust evidence. Because the data on the replication crisis says more than fifty percent is worng.

>>12555535
only physics and mathematics is correct
medicine is fraud
don't buy health insurance
use healing herbs and roots

>>12554862
>kids with ADHD have higher iron deficiency
>ADHD is so highly correlated with folic acid deficiency it's not funny
>treat vitamin b9 deficiency
>ADHD doesn't go away
Did it occur to you that the results of variations in enzymes are much more complicated than what your pea sized brain can comprehend?

>>12555548
Source
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3887226/

>>12555554
the citation in that study leads to this one
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347607005513
which explains ADHD as a MTHFR gene mutation
if that is the case, then of course supplementing with folic acid won't work
you should take methylfolate instead
idk if any research has been done on this, but pls tell me if so

>>12555617
Huh. This actually makes some sense.

I'm extremely deficient in folic acid and have been taking supplements for a while. I'm not a pregnant woman either, I'm an average young guy.

I'll keep an eye on my folic acid levels next time I get my blood tested.

>>12555634
Unlikely diagnosis though. I took up running for a while and could easily do 5k, which suggests against anemia. I'd probably also have a B12 deficiency instead of just folic acid too.

>>12555641
i'd have to look into this more to see if it's safe but L-methylfolate might work

>>12555665
then again, this study says it does nothing other than reduce stimulant drug effectiveness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6750952/

>>12554862
Yes. 80% of publications are bullshit and beyond undergrad (or even during undergrad in a good uni) you realise that no fact is 100% known. It's all P values and hyping up your data by drawing assumptions in the discussion.

>>12554862
>do you guys see the issue?
Yes. This has been going on for quite some time now. Welcome to clown world.

Honk honk.

>>12554871
>ghr literature
what is ghr?

>>12554862
Shit like this is why I became a dentist. Can't argue with cutting out decayed tissue and replacing it with an inert filler material. So much of medicine is clearly a fucking scam and totally ignorant of whole-body health.

>>12554862
god, you're so fucking stupid

>>12554862
adhd is a methylation issue

>>12555854
I was typing fast, that whole sentence is one big typo.

>>12554993
do you even feel the meds at this point? drug fear mongers always say that taking amphetamines without an ADHD diagnosis is abuse because people with ADHD "don't feel them the same." I always figured that's because diagnosed people are taking the speed every single fucking day and therefore don't really feel it after a certain point. Am I off base here?

>>12555854
Also meant to read
>once you start reading the literature

>>12554862
No. Some people are just really shitty at reading science papers. (you)

>>12555162
You need to read this one again. Google the big words you don't know. It'll help you be less shitty.

>>12555871
Such a fucking disappointment.

>>12556577
explain the paper then, bitch
right now

>>12556580
ok. It's pretty easy to let it do it's own talking though:
>Iron supplementation (80 mg/day) appeared to improve ADHD symptoms in children with low serum ferritin levels suggesting a need for future investigations with larger controlled trials

. . . What don't you get?

>>12556599
>children with low serum ferritin levels
wow, iron treats iron deficiency
the author makes a different conclusion, though, and says that iron treats ADHD, which would imply iron helps kids without low iron levels, which is probably false
therefore the author is gay and retaded

>>12556469
It's not far off. People with "real" adhd has less dopamine, serotonin etc and taking the drugs increase this, just like most drugs really. So when someone with adhd takes the right dose he will get on the same level as "normal" people. If he takes more than that he will be speeded just like any other person would. You do build up a tolerance when taking it everyday, but not really that much if it is in "medical" doses. I love getting drugged on them though so I need to watch myself to not take a recreational dose too often or I will get tolerance issues. Another thing is that most people using it regularly don't really feel the drug because the chemicals has become a part of who they are, but they will feel it if it is missing. I think it is abuse in most cases because you are drugging a fish so that it can become a monkey and climb trees, if you get what I mean

>>12554862
>retards exist
>use the scientific method to refute ideas published by retards
>is science bullshit?

>>12555047
maybe just eat a healthy diet with lots of vegetables and legumes so you get plenty of all the important nutrients naturally instead of taking retarded supplements which may very well be less effective in isolated form? people who turn to supplements before making kale blueberry smoothies are the biggest fucking retards

>>12554862
ya gotta admit tho there's a definite aesthetic to those 30mg Add caps

One thing as a trained scientist I notice a similarity between my previous, uneducated self, and laypersons who are uneducated, is that they can't evaluate claims about reality, tend to think anything is possible, and can be fooled into believing nearly anything.

The best an ignorant person can do is be skeptical of people without credentials

>>12559092
no

>>12556577
>Such a fucking disappointment.
yeah right. 'science is bullshit'. what a fucking moron you are.
Guess what? I have ADHD. I'm FAR from iron deficient. You, on the other hand, are not semen deficient, in your mouth that is.
STFU, go back to >>>/pol/ or >>>/b/ or wherever you brainlets hail from.

Imagine thinking science was ever correct or had the answer to literally anything...
It's essentially just cope that gives people the illusion of certainty. Even mathematics is incomplete
The more specific a field gets, the more BS
MATH > Physics > chem > bio > BS

>>12554862
Modern science needs some work
We already know that lifestyle changes easily cure ADHD but most parents are lazy and would rather just give their kid a pill instead of actually deal with the issue. On the contrary, having """adhd""" is actually a huge advantage in hunter-gather society's which has been the norm for hundreds of thousands of years, it's just not in great in the society we live in so we label it as bad.

>>12560521
>lifestyle changes easily cure ADHD
like what?
becoming a nomad? hunting for rabbits at the park?

>I don't understand how it works but everything is wrong and bullshit because I said so
Good job you figured everything out and I'm getting paid 150k a year to do literally nothing, retard

>>12560718
Either changing to a high activity physical job or doing 4-5 hours a day of strenuous activity. Combined with diet changes and it's a guaranteed cure, but that sounds like a lot of effort over taking a pill so most people opt for the latter.

>>12554993
I stopped adderall completely by taking .5-1mg selegiline. It’s pretty awesome. It’s even used to extend life.

>>12561060
how to get otc?

>>12554993
Hey Schizo, brains of people with ADHD have very weak circuits and activity in the prefrontal association cortex, on top of other brain differences.
Now go take your meds.

>>12561139
how to fix?
magnesium?
how much?
zinc? pls

>>12561139
>character traits manifest themselves in the brain
what a shocker

>>12554862
>Random guy on the Internet thinks he knows better than real scientists

I don't like this episode

>>12561063
>>12561060
Gib more info. Where do I get it online?

>>12560836
Wrong, I do literally exactly that (part time 5 hour a day job) and work out at home on days off, still feel terrible

>>12556469
>I always figured that's because diagnosed people are taking the speed every single fucking day and therefore don't really feel it after a certain point. Am I off base here?
No, it has nothing to do with tolerance, the difference in effect can be seen immediately upon first administration.
>>12561415
Its a chemical relative of levoamphetamine, that is an MAO-B inhibitor in low doses, making it boost the levels of dopamine in your brain. There is no particular reason to not just take Vyvanse instead.

>>12561483
>"Hey man the scientific evidence on the subject is wrong on the subject"
>What the is the logic behind why you think it's wrong?
>"Well personally in my case, I don't feel like it's true"
>So, you're saying that your one single case disproves the vast amount of research on exercise and ADHD?
>"Yes"
You're aware your on the science board, right? Not the "anonymous anecdotal evidence" board.

>>12561139
Scan a group of people that are selected because they all have the same trait. WOW, their brains are different than a randomly selected group! What shall we call this new disease?

>>12561139
>>12561643
To further hammer my point into your brains:

What they did is the same as selecting a group of taller than average individuals and measure their heights and saying "look, there is something physically different in this group of tall people. We always suspected they where different, but now we have proof they are different than average. Which again means they have a disease"


Do you see where you went wrong now and how to avoid it in the future?

>>12554862
Leave this board

>>12561650
>What they did is the same as selecting a group of taller than average individuals and measure their heights and saying "look, there is something physically different in this group of tall people. We always suspected they where different, but now we have proof they are different than average. Which again means they have a disease"
ADHD people are the equivalent of people with gigantism and not some nigger playing in the NBA, inability to focus at will, make long term decisions and control your impulses coupled with persistent boredom is not a desirable fucking condition to have, the evolutionary advantages of it in the ancient past are not relevant to the situation today. Btw, gigantism also is caused by measurable changes, in particular by a pituitary gland tumour, your prediction is actually right.

>>12561694
What are different personality traits?

>>12561696
If some specific condition is causing distress to an individual, it can be called a disease. ADHD causes distress to those afflicted and it can be easily treated. Even aging is a disease that everyone suffers from and that has 100% mortality rate, a disease to eventually be cured. Welcome to medicine.

>>12561708
It causes distress because sosciety tries to hammer those with an "adhd" personality into a mold they don't fit. It is the hammering that's the problem, not the personality. Just accept that people are different and have different skillsets

>>12554862
If you eat too many eggs you are gonna get a heart disease and a stroke, right? At least this was what the scientific authorities said some decades ago.

>>12561719
>Just accept that people are different and have different skillsets
It isn't a skillset issue, adhd isnt specific to any occupation or activity, people with it have issues even with things they actually like, hell, they even have problems with basic daily functioning most of the time and not losing shit on a daily basis and having their apartments become a fucking Nurglite den. And why accept it, when amphetamines exist?

>>12561798
SHUT THE FUCK UP.

People with "adhd" personalities excel in fast paced professions like EMT, military etc.

Shut your big dirty mouth!

>>12561809
They don't excel at anything, they just lack the same response to stimuli that normal people have. In the military this is good for dealing with high stress scenarios, not so very good for following orders, discipline, which amounts to a large chunk of what is needed there. IQ's, reaction times and other things are the same for them as normal people generally.
Besides, being locked to narrow occupations of the type "i do nothing all the time until shit hits the fan" limits your options a lot, pretty much all occupations are not like that at all. There are a whole lot more people with ADHD than there are SEAL and firefighter spots.

>>12561853
kys

>>12561738
exactly
it changes every year

>>12554862
being a fucking faggot is still considered having adhd, and most kids are faggots

>>12563569
im an adult tho
also im more bothered by the inattention, not the hyperactivity
im not hyper at all

>>12554871
Basically this. Even being close to the medical industry, all I ever see is business models, never cure plans.

And yes, they do have some interesting medicine capabilities that would have saved people....

We're fucked