/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1252158
>Implying that he is a logical person and can think logically
We know this?

Designer as in mortal, not immortal.

But... how did that designer start? He hasn't answered how life started, he has done exactly what creationists do; push the argument one step back and then refuse to explain the creation of the creator.

Why didn't he just briefly explain the theory of abiogenesis?

>>1252158

0/10

>>1252189
BUT: Once you concede that humans may have been designed, then all this "God can't exist" business is off the table. Evolution was your best bet to say definitively that there is no God, but you've failed.

>>1252207
Because Dawkins is tired of all the bullshit.

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y_=_aｎOn)_ImＭEIDatｅｌy. u etgw yyxum y vzimmk sg nufyzhei

>>1252156

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>>1252213
But no one has agreed that humans were put here, already done.

>>1252217
Do you even know about abiogenesis?
It's a reasonably secure hypothesis/borderline theory, try looking for experiments which support it.

dawkins status:

[ ] not told
[X] FUCKING TOLD

and then there are some of the things that ben stien has said that is just facepalm

sereously ben stein is such a faggot, i cant stand him, ive read so many things that he's said that are so stupid. he is meant to be an intelligent man. but then again some of the stuff he writes is pretty good, as long as it aint on any subject of science etc

>>1252227
I said Dawkins is TIRED
As in, he's fucking tired of all this bullshit with interviewers knowing NOTHING.

>>1252238
[citation needed]

>>1252244
Sorry, I thought you were suggesting abiogenesis seemed to be bullshit

All of you fags forgot about the part in which he said a civilization possibly made us, which was brought about in a Darwinian way, because of how similar we are. In no way did he say that GOD made us, something that always existed.
Christianfag status
Getting better at taking shit out of context[X]
Learning to read and comprehend [ ]

>>1252250
>evolution says life arose from a lightningstrike in a mudpuddle
^His exact fucking words.

>evolution saying anything about the origin
>any scientific theory saying the origin is a lightningstrike in a mudpuddle

>>1252227
>Do you even know about abiogenesis?
>It's a reasonably secure hypothesis/borderline theory, try looking for experiments which support it.

Wikipedia: The sequence of chemical events that led to the first nucleic acids is not known.

Hmm...

>>1252271
>Taking wikipedia as a reliable source
Hmmm...

>>1252281
>not providing a study to back up claims

Hmmmm...

Stein MASSACRED dawkins in that exchange. He made it plain to see that dawkins has a strong anti-religious agenda which in no way promotes reason. He hates ID when it's proposed by right-wing scientists, but actually considers it a valid theory!

You should find yourselves a brighter messiah atheists.

>>1252255
What I'm hearing from you: "We can't account for the origin of life on this planet, so there must be some other explanation -- just as long as it's not God!"
Me: "But... You just admitted that you can't account for the origin of life on this planet! How do you know it's not God?"

Now we cut to the chase: It's not about scientific evidence, because you don't have any. So what it's really all about is belief systems and worldviews. Stop calling it a science and just admit the truth.

>>1252271
>>1252281
>>1252291
Hmmmm....

>>1252323
We can't account for it, so we make theories. Theories aren't beliefs, we use scientific data to describe things and use logic in there. God is not logical. An explosion leading to the creation of everything that is, makes more sense than a magical guy.

>>1252291
>You aren't either, hmmmm...
But hey it's not my arguement. If you christians want to throw beliefs around while I show you facts, whatever, its obvious who the loser is. All you have to result to is insults, and I'll be telling you stuff. Then you will attempt to change the subject while throwing in another insult. Christian flow chart so easy.

THEORIES ARE NOT LAWS


FUCK OFF CHRISTIANFAGS

>>1252353
>you christians
Atheist, bro, and only commenting on people demanding evidence but refusing to give their own.

>>1252323
But we CAN account for the origin of life on Earth through normal chemical means.

However, life could have ALSO been planted on Earth, as I'm sure we'll (hopefully) do someday on some other young planet.

Dawkins gave a very...wordy answer in that stupid movie. He left out a lot (or it wasn't included in the movie, as biased propaganda is wont to do).

>>1252336
Even if it was the magical guy that made the explosion?

I don't have any problem with anything you can demonstrate in a lab, and evolution has been demonstrated. But it doesn't explain the origination of life. Even if you get the right ingredients in the right place at the right time, they still have to be in the right order -- that takes information. About a gigabyte of information actually. So where did that information come from? The roll of the dice? Statistics are against you heavily here.

>>1252391
>doesn't understand millions of years
>doesn't understand how big the earth is
>doesn't understand 100+ billion stars in the Milky Way

>>1252391
Maybe that's why life is "rare" in the solar system?
Also, starting out it would have been simple. Like a total of maybe twenty atoms arranged into a hydrophobic sphere with nothing in the middle. Then it absorbs two atoms that join together and have an end that makes copies of themselves. So on, so forth (ie EVOLUTION). It didn't just BANG life, it started very slowly you ignorant fuck.

>>1252429
I think life is rare in the solar system because the right conditions are not there. Life started almost as soon as the right conditions arose on Earth for it, suggesting it will spontaneously and quickly arise in the presence of the right conditions, making it appear simple life is common, but since it took 3.5bil years+ for complexity to evolve, this suggest complex life is relatively very rare.

Hey /sci/, you like how we have to explain evolution every single day at least 5 times?

Lol, I forced myself to watch Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. As a strong atheist I thought I would hate it, in fact I loved it.

The whole movie is about how Theist just get automatically shunned by the scientific community. It made me happy to know that our country has progressed enough to not even consider tolerating bullshit.

>>1252449
Meant galaxy

>>1252464

That's the deal with evolution. You gotta pound it in the heads like with a hammer.

Funny how everyone can understand gravity more or less at once but no one manages that with evolution, almost like it's a shit theory lol

>>1252158
>watched "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"

Why? are fucking retarded? Was it some sort of punishment?

>>1252484
>Implying that evolution isn't airtight
More like, people are in full blown denial. It's like trying to tell someone that their wife/husband, that they've been together with all of their life is their sister or brother. They will deny that shit to hell.

>>1252217
>>1252207

The question was: "The origin of life on EARTH." EARTH, not the origin of LIFE, Dawkins gave a troll answer because he's Dawkins like that.

>>1252509
Pic related. Dawkins' face.

>>1252155

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>>1252405
>>doesn't understand millions of years
>>doesn't understand how big the earth is
>>doesn't understand 100+ billion stars in the Milky Way

Life = a minimum of 250 proteins for minimal life function + in the right order.
Probability: 1 in 1xtrillion^6
Or: 1:10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
,000,000,000,000,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Age of the earth: 4.55 billion years
Or: 1,660,750,000,000,000 days

Number of times a day you would have to have a possible-life-creating circumstance arise per day in the history of Earth: 6,021,375,884,389,583,019,720,006,021,375,884,389&#4
4;583,019,720,006,02,137,588.43895

Doesn't understand how long it would take to roll a 1 on a trillion^6 sided die.

>>1252556
>Doesn't understand life started simply, without complex proteins present in today's lift

>>1252556
Wow you are fucking retarded.

>>1252158
>Just watched Dr. Richard Dawkins come onto My face --> :}
Hey, what do you know, we can quote out of context too.

>>1252580
>I'm going to insult you because I can't come up with a logical reason to say that you are wrong
HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr

>>1252598
I don't think you'd be able to comprehend molecular biology, based on the shit you spewed out, so no point in trying to explain anything.

>>1252607
>Implying that I'm not a bystander that saw you get owned, and then pointed out that your only retort was an insult and that you aren't further ignoring the fact that you still have no proof that that guy doesn't some basis to what hes saying.

>>1252620
>implying you are not a samefag and I'm not a bystander

ITT: Everyone misinterprets Dawkins' quote because of Ben Stein's retarded response.

>>1252620
>didn't read the post right above the other guys that actually explains why the first person is fucktarded

yep, still 4chan

>>1252628
>Implying that it makes a major difference which I am because you are still avoiding your obligation to disprove what someone says with facts instead of just insults so you don't sound like a butthurt faggot.

>>1252556
>>Creationists often claim that the chances of a modern enzyme forming by random means are astronomically small, and therefore the chances of a complete bacterium (which is composed of hundreds or thousands of such enzymes & proteins) is so near to impossible that it would never happen in the 13 billion years or so since the universe took shape.

>>The calculation which supports the creationist argument begins with the probability of a 300-molecule-long protein forming by total random chance. This would be approximately 1 chance in 10390. This number is astoundingly huge. By comparison, the number of all the atoms in the observable universe is 1080. So, if a simple protein has that unlikely chance of forming, what hope does a complete bacterium have?

>>If this were the theory of abiogeneisis, and if it relied entirely on random chance, then yes, it would be impossible for life to form in this way. However, this is not the case.

>>In fact, if we assume the volume of the oceans were 1024 liters, and the amino acid concentration was 10-6M (which is actually very dilute), then almost 1031 self-replicating peptides would form in under a year, let alone millions of years. So, even given the difficult chances of 1 in 1040, the first stages of abiogenesis could have started very quickly indeed.

http://www.evolutionfaq.com/articles/probability-life

>>1252666
sorry, exponent formatting got messed.

>>1252666
Nice number of the devil. You fail to realise that creatures eat other creatures, and kill off eachother on their own and who is to say that new creatures aren't being made all of the time?

>>1252580
Then educate me. Let's start with something simple: What's the probability of getting 250 proteins together in the right order to make a simple single-celled organism?

>>1252681
I ask again, are you retarded? see >>1252666

>>1252681
>Implying that a christfag has the mental capacity to prove anything because their frontal lobe is so unused that it probably can't even function anymore.

>>1252681
I don't think that's how abiogenesis works.

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the so far best theory that life began with some proteins, then some more, and then some more until a cell suddenly as a result?

>>1252679
>and who is to say that new creatures aren't being made all of the time?

Excellent observation. Just where ARE all these shiny new creatures in nature? I mean, evolution has been proven in the petri dish, right? But where has a scientific breeding program managed to change one species into another?

>>1252666

>666

Stopped reading right there.

>>1252691
i thought it was with extremely simple chemical reproducers?

>>1252697
>I read the postnumber before the post
what are you, a getfag? :3

>>1252684
Yes, that shit is possible. Will it happen, because of all of the piss and animals living in there already? Hard to find out. I can only give you common sense answers because I don't know the science to this shit, but come on, the answer to why it hasn't happened is pretty obvious

>>1252695

Dogs

>>1252701
that might very well be.

>>1252158
>watched "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"

Stopped reading. I don't read posts by faggots (engineers),

>>1252666
>>1252684
>>1252695
Again I say, just where are all these new creatures?

>>1252705
That ain't well documented, broseph.

>>1252709
They are quickly out-competed by bacteria and other small, modern, highly adapted lifeforms.

>>1252695
We do find new things all of the time you fuckwit. It will take the same amount of time for them to turn into us for them to be visible, thats why theres microbiology and stuff.

>>1252695
Go to a flower show.

>>1252158
>watched "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"

Ohh, Ic, this is a TROLL THREAD

Nice try faggot
0/10

>>1252709
Holy shit you're retarded, do you think the earth was the exact same today as it was millions of years ago?

>>atmosphere of the early Earth may have been chemically reducing in nature, composed primarily of methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), water (H2O), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), carbon dioxide (CO2) or carbon monoxide (CO), and phosphate (PO43-), with molecular oxygen (O2) and ozone (O3) either rare or absent

>>1252709
Become a christfag, lose all critical thinking

>>1252158

>>1252731
and
>>In such a reducing atmosphere, electrical activity can catalyze the creation of certain basic small molecules (monomers) of life, such as amino acids. This was demonstrated in the Miller–Urey experiment by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey in 1953.

>>1252158
2/10

>>1252725
>>1252737
>>1252708
Stop samefagging, I'm having a joyous time smashing idiot christfags, the irony is that I'm one too.

>>1252207
>Why didn't he just briefly explain the theory of abiogenesis?

he did

fucking kike just quote-mined from the interview

actually Dawkins gave a reply on that that is on Jewtube

>>1252708
Still butthurt about failing out of the engineering program? (I can tell by the way you project your butthurt onto us.)

>>1252213
But that is not true. lol

are we seriously discussing ID ITT?

>>1252556
[citation needed]

Not to drive in the point, but Dawkins was owned in that interview. And even worse, he was owned by really simple and basic questions. Its like Stein didn't even have to try. He basically trolled the douche, exposing Dawkin's own uncertainties and insecurities regarding the matter.

>>1252777

SAGE

Athiestfags; question!

Why would you worship such an obvious faggot? You can tell by his mannerisms, intonation, body language, and bitchy attitude. I'm quite positive none of us would be the least surprised if he came out of the closet or a story hit the tabloids about Dawkins sucking dick on the weekends.

Your God is a blatant faggot, admit it.

>>1252790
>Dawkins is gay
I'm okay with this, what seems to be the problem?

>>1252391

The only point creationists ever had is here. And the whole entropy thing which I don't quite understand yet.

I'd still go with the role of dice. Multiple universes.

>>1252484

lol dat troll. Nobody understand gravity actually, but most biologists if not every biologist understands evolution.

>>1252705
No. They're all Canis lupus familiaris. That species is one of if not the most diverse around.

If you want to see an amazing new species, go to the supermarket. The grapefruit is a cross between an orange and a pomelo.