/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12523249
We've seen bacteria survive in extremely hostile environments why wouldn't natural selection be able to figure out a different way of life?

NEXT

tentacles wrote this post

>>12523249
nice try cianigger, get blacked by some alien tentacles you faggot.

You seem to be operating on this weird assumption OP. That assumption is if alien life exists outside of Earth, we would know about it. The universe is a very big place, and shit is very far apart. It seems entirely plausible that there is alien life out there, but we have no hope of ever even knowing about it due to the vast distances. The whole point of Fermi's equation is to demonstrate that even if you put in pessimistic estimates for every variable, the odds of other life are still near certain.

If life starts on the water of the oceans then moves to land, you're gonna get some reptilian looking animals, mammals are not dominant until an asteroid impacts the planet killing the dinosaurs, intelligent life appear more connected with mammals so we gotta take that into consideration as well.

>>12523249
I think you're a closet creationist and are attempting to groom /sci/entists towards your theist beliefs before actually springing your 'god' on them.

>>12523262
>>12523355
Do you think the aliens molest the cianiggers?

>>12523466
they fuck them with their tentacles

>>12523249
aliens CAN exist .
Proof : we exist.
Simple as

>>12523466
>think
i know.

>>12523249
Based. Abiogenesis is still completely unexplained, and if there doesn't exist a mechanism that polymerises nucleotides faster than just dumb statistical processes which we have somehow missed all this time, the odds that a single fucking RNA with self-replicating behaviour has emerged anywhere else in the universe is literally 0

>>12523633
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

>>12523249
People who spread rare earth secretle search for alien technology to sell it and believe them to be inventor.

>>12523574
>>12523594
hot

>>12523249
Because human brain can't withstand the void. In ancient Greece peiple were filling the world with centaurs, satyrs, nereids, cyclopi etc. Today we are filling the space with aliens.

>>12523633
>Abiogenesis is still completely unexplained
yes you are correct, abiogenesis is just a bunch of hypotheses which don't hold up, But to claim that abiogenesis is impossible is even more ignorant. We already know of numerous methods for organic molecules to be synthesized abiotically and that opens up the mere POSSIBILITY that abiogenesis is a valid theory on the origin of life. Any brainlet claiming it is impossible based on fucking statistics or saying that it is factually proven by the Miller Urey experiment is a fucking retard. the fact of the matter is that we dont know enough YET to come up with a sound theory on the origin of life.
>the odds that a single fucking RNA with self-replicating behaviour has emerged anywhere else in the universe is literally 0
What makes you think RNA is a pre-requisite for life? the RNA world hypothesis isnt the only hypothesis that exists you know, who's to say there werent even simpler components pre dating RNA? maybe RNA was acquired later on in the evolution of life?
have you heard of the metabolism first hypothesis?
no one even agrees on where the fuck life began, some say in deep sea in hydrothermal vents, maybe on fucking ice, maybe even on a fucking natural nuclear reactor.
again, we dont know enough to come up with a sound theory on the origin of life.
Abiogenesis is POSSIBLE, but as of now unproven,

>>12523660
you're retarded if you think the miller Urey experiment explains abiogenesis.

This is dumb as fuck, we can't say "aliens don't exist"

However, I agree far, far too many otherwise intelligent people seem to instantly dismiss the possibility of it due to the "universe so big" thing

There's a non-zero probability for each of these things:

- We're the only intelligent life to have ever existed in the universe
- We're the only life to life to have ever existed
- We're the only intelligent life that will ever exist
- We're the only life that will ever exist

All of those would somehow be pretty horrifying to think about, though, if they're true. What a catastrophic fuckup it'd be if the most interesting thing to ever happen and that will ever happen in the universe wipes itself out due to some tiktok meme or some shit

This is dumb as fuck, we can't say "aliens don't exist"

However, I agree far, far too many otherwise intelligent people seem to instantly dismiss the possibility of it due to the "universe so big" thing

There's a non-zero probability for each of these things:

>We're the only intelligent life to have ever existed in the universe

>We're the only life to have ever existed

>We're the only intelligent life that will ever exist

>We're the only life that will ever exist

All of those would be pretty horrifying to think about, though, if they're true. What a catastrophic fuckup it'd be if the most interesting thing to ever happen and that will ever happen in the universe wipes itself out due to some tiktok meme or some shit

>>12523249
>Aliens do not exist.
This is real

>>12523249
>what if the requirements of life are as rare as they seem to be
Can you please elaborate on that point? I can't think of anything that would suggest so.

>>12523355
genius

>>12523249
>observation
we exist
>hypothesis
we can't exist

>>12524154
Ofc there's sex

>>12523260
>humanity not ready yet
What does that even mean?

>>12523396
The thing is that life didn't probably start in the ocean as it was once thought, at least that it's the consensus of current day.

>>12523255
Because hostile environments don't offer enough biochemical variation and no bacteria. On Earth, the bacteria that lives in hostile environments haven't basically evolved at all.

>>12523260
>inb4 "statements" from fuck all officials

>>12523358
I don't claim that this cannot be the case. Sure, it's possible that there is some intelligent life out there but chances would be that they're nowhere near us. But, still it's not far-fetched to claim that there probably isn't any life other than us.

>>12523416
I'm agnostic, but I think that if alien life would be common, it would be proof of creationism and would make me a complete believer. As it currently stands, there's only life on Earth in this vast universe which supports the theory that our life is just an incredibly improbable coincidence. If life was common, could you seriously argue that there's just this universe which happens to create sentient life for no reason at all?

>>12523582
>>12524234
Survivor bias.

>>12524093
My point is that we cannot say that aliens do exist either because for all we know, there's a non-zero probability for life.

>>12524205
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

Still, we don't know the exact requirements. We do not know which triggered
Cambrian explosion for example, which can be considered as requirement for life because it seriously boosted the biodiversity.

>>12523906
Didn't say that the definitive answer is that we are alone even once in my post, outside perhaps of saying based to OP but that's just because it's fun to tear down the perception that we're living in fucking Star Wars that so many spastics seem to believe in. Neither am I saying to discard abiogenesis, whatever you think that means since it isn't a theory, but just that our best models for it are still relying entirely on random, statistical processes that will never produce the 50-100 nucleotides RNA which are required for self-replicating properties in any 1 observable universe. Meaning that it isn't all that silly to suppose that there aren't aliens that are causally connected with us and the universe is necessarily much, much larger

>>12523660
Thankfully the other guy already called you a retard so I won't have to but the leap in complexity between amino acids and RNA or DNA is extreme

>>12524819
>life didn't probably start in the ocean as it was once thought,
Cite?

>>12524093
The big thing is if anything else exists at the same time as us. Seems like extremely low odds that another intelligent civilization had emerged at the same time as us, close enough to actually ever get there. And if they live on the other side of the universe, would it even matter

>>12525428
have you just crawled out from under a rock?

>>12525463
What do you mean

>>12523249

Because it's an hypothesis based mostly on speculation just like assuming life is common is.

We don't know the frequency of earth sized planets in the habitital zones is b/c methods we use to detect exo-planets have sensitivities that decline /w increasing distance from star and decreasing mass.

Stable orbits exist in many binary systems, but we don't know if other conditions (more asteroid impacts etc,,) may prevent complex life or not.

We don't even know Fermi Paradox is really a paradox. It may be that civilizations only use radiowaves as a significant medium of long ranged communication for a few hundred years- Earth is trending that way already and advances in electronics allow for lower Tx power. If such were the case there could tens of thousands of advanced civilizations in the Galaxy and odds of detecting one while you're still using radiowaves would be small.

With so many unknown variables, it's pointless to conjecture about the frequency of advanced alien life.

Also note: we have no way of knowing if abiogenesis happened only once on Earth, but happening only once is not a contraindicator for the process occurring elsewhere. Self replicating life would outcompete any chemical process for "resources" by many orders of magnitude and likely preclude another instance of abiogenesis from occurring.

I think the fact we've found evidence of life only a few hundred million years from the crust cooling likely implies there's bacteria or Archia all over the place. Basically anywhere there's a hydrothermal vent & water even if the planet's is ice-capped.

As for more complex life, we'd be lucky to get enough data to answer that question in our lifetime.

>>12525578
Also good luck actually detecting TV radio waves from 100 light years. Radio telescopes pick signals from powerful astronomical objects.

>>12525372
>Cite?
I remember reading about this but cannot find the exact study, but there was a study of could cells form in water and the evidence suggested that it was impossible and there was citations to other studies which implied that life must have happened in either ponds with high chemical fluctuation or on dripstones with constant fluid flow.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190412115059.htm
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/2/120213-first-life-land-mud-darwin-evolution-animals-science/

>>12526033
> Radio telescopes pick signals from powerful astronomical objects.

Meanwhile i cant even get some fucking wifi

maybe alien life is inevitable, but it seems reasonably possible that nothing complex enough to make contact currently share our thin sheet of spacetime. I don't have so much hubris to think that after intelligent life is established that it tends to remain forever.

>>12523249
Probably

>>12525578
I think this is the most likely. Simple life exists everywhere but complex life is much rarer.