/sci/ - Science & Math

First for SLS will reach orbit before starship

you suck

>>12516153
If starship somehow reaches orbit before SLS, we will nationalize SpaceX and cancel the starship program.

>>12516059
>not "Literally Whoberg"

So when is the next Starship prototype being flown?

>>12516229
It doesn't fly sweaty, it glides

Nth for rename Mars to Musk

>>12516245
Eighth for learn how to count.

>>12515658
>Kimbal Musk
>literally just "Kerbal" and "gimbal" mashed together
>this guy somehow isn't the space brother

>>12516250
>not expressing yourself in combo breaker-safe statements while clearing ancient moot-era single ip bans on a dynamic pool

>>12516262
lol

sci unironically cannot refute this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDYt-phUAxY

>>12516290
>you probably can't fit 100 people comfortably on Starship for a 6 month voyage
probably correct
>therefore the entire concept doesn't work and starship will never fly
incorrect

>>12516290
Stop posting this shit, we've already deboonked it a dozen times, as have countless other people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNk4aTTdGh4

>>12516262
why does every serious ssto attempt (DC-X, X-33, Skylon, etc) always try to be so small? dont they know that the larger the ship, the better the mass ratio?

>>12516315
This is one of the few AA videos i actually enjoyed

>>12516290
Angry Astronaut deboonked it

>>12516290
>>12516353
CSS literally refuses to admit he is wrong, ever. He's worse then 2thefuture or thunderf00t

>>12516358
Shoutout to the atheist skeptic scene from 2006 to 2014 that made YouTube one of the worst places for discourse

>>12516340
X-33 was just a prototype for the Venturestar, which was fuckhuge, and DC-X wasn't designed as an orbital spacecraft.

>>12516340
>tfw never ever

>>12516340
SSTO doesnt even work in the first place, especially when hamstrung by subpar hydrogen engines. Massively heavy tank structures and low weight to lift ratio engines just slays any hope of delivering useful payload mass to orbit.
As a side-note, many rocket first stages are SSTO if they have zero payload, no fairings etc. A Falcon 9 first stage could reach a very low orbit if it carried nothing.

>>12516382
So technically it could do cubesat ssto launches?

>>12516384

maybe it could launch them, but it wouldn't be able to return from orbit like a regular f9 booster, so it would be a massive waste of resources

>>12516243
Sweaty? I'm not sweaty at all, it's the middle of winter for Christ's sake.

>>12516391

>f9 return from orbit
fuck, I mean it wouldn't be able to land

>>12516392
That’s no excuse, faggot. Go to the gym

Just reminder: Falcon 9 will reach 100 successful missions in a row in 2021.

>>12516404
>some african american shitposter made a more reliable and far cheaper rocket than the shittle
You can't make that up...

>>12516382
SSTO absolutely can work, its just that they always try and make them too small relative to their desired payload, and always fall for hydromeme.

>>12516434
It can, but is it worth it now that self-recovering boosters are definitely possible and increasingly reliable? Why not have a winged TSTO that can shuttle glide back to a landing strip (spaceplane atop a booster) or a finned TSTO that can bellyflop into a propulsive landing(Starship)? Better payload fraction that way.

>>12516290
what is this absolutely retarded video?

If starship delivers 100% on its cost per flight and payload targets, does this mean in-orbit spacecraft assembly becomes realistic?

>>12516340
mini starship...

>>12516229
if everything goes top
WDR today
static fire tomorrow
flight on the 30th

>>12516538
Even if Starship falls over it's cost estimates by double orbital ship assembly will be much more efficient. If the Shuttle had actually lived up to even half it's capabilities orbital ship assembly would have already become normal. You don't even need a cheap launcher for orbital assembly, just one with a high launch rate. It could be done at Falcon Heavy prices if somebody would just build multi-part ship components to fit inside it.
That's the major hurdle for orbital assembly, the launchers are relatively easy compared to getting people willing to invest in an orbital construction project to actually build payloads for big launchers. Starship will hopefully fix this problem by making the price of launching payload plummet so low an entire new orbital market will open up.

>>12516555
more like
>road closures cancelled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5l9ZxsG9M
Pad cleared but the big crane is still there.

>>12516340
>why does every serious ssto attempt (DC-X, X-33, Skylon, etc) always try to be so small?
It's a common idea that smaller vehicles are easier and cheaper to work with. This would be seen as a benefit in a space agency that is looking for any excuse to cut funding on additional programs to funnel more money into the mainline project

>>12516538
kind of, but at the same time it becomes less necessary. Any orbital assembly will be billionaire vanity project because there's no real reason otherwise when you could just outfit a starship for virtually any purpose.

>>12516373
the atheists were right tho

>>12516561
but in practice, unless your smaller vehicle is made for small payloads, it will wind up being even more expensive due to the need for fancy composite materials and ludicrously complex engines.

>>12516434
>SSTO absolutely can work
No, SSTO can be done, but it can't work. That is to say, you can't actually accomplish anything with SSTO, because the mass margins are far too small, even if you scale the thing up to a gorillion tons.

Faaaaaarm Veeeeeeeenting

>>12516572

>>12516584
It's just starting.

>>12516567
You have a point, but view this from the perspective of some government official who has to approve of space projects. Would you accept the larger potentially more complex prototype that if fails would be high profile, or would the smaller prototype with simpler logistics and smaller PR footprint be preferable? Politics is full of bullshit logic, but it's bullshit logic that needs to be taken into account

>>12516586
road has been reopened

>>12516558
no they weren't cancelled, I checked now

>>12516290
This is just spam now
or advertising/begging, maybe both

>>12516059
fuck twatter and people who post random twits on sfg

>>12516594
you're no better

Dem robots being taking our jerbs!

>>12516606
>Dem robots
What about Republican robots?

>>12516608
you mean n*ggers?

>>12516609
naggers?

>>12516509
Don't reply to retards, just report and ignore.

>>12516606
>Big dicc Elon Kukas all of Oldspace
>Fuc u ULA ur next.

>>12516566
Only right to the same extent theists who don’t believe in YEC are.

>>12516059
>twitter edition
Okay.

>>12516624

I guess there's no point to lurking /sfg/ today if it's just going to be this shit all day.

What about a rocket that uses germane?

>>12516623
If you follow literally any one of the theologies dreamed up by people in history you may as well be a young earth creationist. Literally the only two tenable positions are either "I don't think there's a god" or "I think there's a god", any claim about the nature of that god is impossible to make. Just looking at that question, it seems extremely meaningless either way.

Cant wait for elon to build starlink around the moon and BTFO all the whining astroniggers who wanted to put a radio telescope in a "quiet" environment

>>12516315
>random you tubers who don’t work in the industry

Why would you post shit like this

>>12516563
What about the Gateway Foundation's Von Braun space station concept that serves as a docking hub for a large number of starships, each on outfitted for a specific purpose?

>>12516624
that bitch makes me mad, but gladly she's also extremely irrelevant, maybe one of the least relevant people on the planet.

>>12516636
Seething

>>12516641
Nope, my Lord is Jesus Christ. What do you have, and amoeba?

>>12516629
>who cares
non-retards lmao, "who cares about building canoes, we have perfectly good island, dozens of chickens"

>>12516641
*Tips fedora*

Atheists commit suicide at a higher rate than the religious.

>>12516624
It's true thought

I was wondering: why doesn't the starship metal alloy contain molybdenum? Or it does? It is an awesome metal and has melting point around 2600°C, it doesn't even cost that much.

>>12516646
I have no idea who that is so why would people post random Twitter screencaps? It’s off-topic, really.

>>12516629

>>12516660

>>12516624
even if this was true, wouldnt we want more racist white south africans to innovate for us? it's not like the niggers accomplish anything

>>12516650
Why do you need a lord, are you that much of a peasant? You yearn for subjugation so much that you'll believe it when men in funny hats and robes tell you what to do because it would make an invisible big man happy?

>>12516658
isnt it brittle?

>>12516665
>I don’t understand ape psychology at all

>>12516658
Why do you think alloys retain similar properties to their base metals, anon? There are plenty of alloys that have a lower thermal tolerance than either of their pure metal components.

>>12516624
>Man with money bad
because we were doing so well with the gummint in control of space exploration with no other purpose than to pass out pork in every one of the 50 states
>>12516629
And who gives a flying fuck about (((Hollywood))) movies?
Sturgeon was an optimist, 99% of everything from there is crap.

>>12516654
Not entertaining fantasies in real life leads to pruning of the weak, so therefore entertaining fantasies is a good thing? Nah.

>>12516665
You sound like you're on the verge of suicide. Remember that's a sin for which the punishment is eternal damnation

>>12516624
>Having space exploration controlled by one billionaire is bad
A good point, but it's not like this one billionaire is pushing everyone else out. Everyone else aren't even trying to push themselves in.

>>12516663

>>12516663
the absolute SEETHE of old space is delicious, I hope they keep it up until right before they get abandoned, cancelled, shut down, bankrupt etc.

>>12516645
What about it? They only need it because SLS is crap and can't do anything useful closer to the moon.

>>12516624
>>12516629
>>12516660
>>12516663
>>12516680
Spamming/flooding

>>12516676
A sin in which religion? You picked the right one, right?

>>12516663
>We don't sell a Tata
Seems more like a Ford Pinto to me.

>>12516673
>religion is fake cus I said so

You can believe that if you want, but at the end of the day, people who do believe in it are mentally healthier and don’t have extinction birthrates.

>>12516680
based

Can all of the metal hydrides be used as rocket fuel?

>>12516668
>society is 99.99% dumb apes completely dominated by their reward centers only useful for labor while the remaining 0.01% actually run the world and accomplish all the progress
it would be funny if it weren't true

>>12516684
This post is extremely low quality

>>12516669
because there are many molybdenum superalloys that show a very high melting point and are not that brittle. They cost a little more but do wonders. You could even reduce the dependence from these hexagonal thermal tiles, I don't like how they are bolted in the structure.

>>12516686
Unironically yes. Because you chose none you have doubled down on Hell.

>>12516667
pure yes, but in many alloys with chromium and nickel not that much

>>12516596
>proceeds to repost a bunch of 2-year old tweets again

>>12516680
Chuck was later assassinated for these comments (by br*tish subhumans)

>>12516697
Wow you’re so heccin superior to everyone else omg

>>12516664
leftism is all about breaking everything down to the lowest common denominator.

>>12516706
I didnt post any tweets but I will if it angers you

>>12516669
plus in 95% of situations the melting point of a metallic alloy is somewhere between the ones of the individual components.

VP aerojet, now lord regent of aerojet

>>12516689
Nice blanket statement, doesn't apply to me. Religion is fake because it's fake. The fact that it can have mental health benefits doesn't change the fact that it's not an accurate worldview. Also, the best religions for mental health are the least dogmatic, and in fact minimally fantastical. Shit like buddhism and taoism which preach one-ness with natural systems and meditation etc are vastly better than hinduism, judaism, islam, christianity, etc. It's too bad that the chinks are the most powerful nation associated with buddhism, they give it a bad name.

>>12516696
shitty rocket fuels, yeah. Even LiH is a high temperature solid, which sucks because it would undoubtedly be an extremely high performance fuel due to is high energy and low molecular mass.

>>12516725
Oof

>>12516701
>I don't like how they are bolted in the structure
Why not? They aren't bolted by the way, they are clipped on with spring-loaded clasps which are spot welded onto the exterior of the tank skin. The join is mechanical and has a high degree of flexture, which is ideal given that the tiles are a ceramic.

>>12516704
Only atheists go to heaven.

You know /sci/ is slow as fuck right? You don't need to shitpost to keep /sfg/ alive

>>12516709
>t. probably wishes he could work a simple job and make decent wages while not having to deal with "bullshit" like solving problems, thinking, needing to have ideas etc

>>12516660
Jeff bezos hasn’t made a penny and never will

>>12516643
As a counter to some autistic teenage 'skeptic' YouTuber that knows effectively nothing about spaceflight yet is making sweeping claims? You fucking retard.

>>12516744
Sometimes it's good to get all the shit out, if it takes one in twenty threads that's alright. It's like your successful uncle who focuses on work all year but gets trashed and embarrasses himself on christmas, it's nbd

>>12516754
In space, yes. Somehow he's managed to apply NONE of the things he learned becoming the richest man on Earth running Amazon to running BO.

>>12516759
>it takes one in twenty threads
Are you the same person that did the original SLS budget?

>>12516762
He shoulda given blue origin to his ex

>>12516758
desu sometimes I watch stupid shit like that retard's videos just to feel good about myself by tearing down his shitpile arguments, helps me guage my own understanding against the average faggot (in fact above average, even with how retarded that guy is he still knows much more than the typical watches-tv-and-scrolls-facebook human).

i wonder what the young turks think of elon and spacex

>>12516769
kek, I wonder if that guy drinks

>>12516744
Even worse, shitbumping before the bump limit just makes the thread die sooner.
>>12516762
slow and steady

>>12516770
There's a joke to be made about Blue Origin -> BO -> Body Odor, his ex wife leaving him because he wanted to sniff some other bitch, and something about his wife not being smelly enough to satisfy him.

>>12516663
>almost half of the ISS has been built in Italy
Is that why it's falling apart and will need to be abandoned soon?

>>12516762
My guess is that he's not as interested in BO as Elon is in SpaceX. He just did it because he thought there was a trend in wealthy men starting space programs and wanted to join in, but interest dropped when he wasn't making money on it. This guess doesn't explain why he hasn't closed or sold BO yet, but maybe he's holding on in the hopes it becomes a smash hit.

>>12516795
based, fuck the ISS and fuck Italy
In fact fuck all of old space, burn it down it's not worth anything, if anything it's worth negative money.

>>12516788
dont sniff shame him

Was it worth it? Honestly? It's too expensive for the little it ultimately achieved and achieved too little for how expensive it is

>>12516806
It was merely a justification for the shuttle and for all space agencies to spin their wheels in place for 40 years

>>12516806
those stars are so fuckin fake

>>12516798
I don't think it's a matter of interest, I think it's a matter of Jeff wanting to maintain his fantasy of what space technology should be like, which was obviously based on NASA oldspace concept art and 1990s CGI. Jeff does not want to confront the REALITY that space technology is not art, it is engineering, and a space BUSINESS needs to be run like a business, throats need to be cut, whips need to be cracked, otherwise 90% of projects evaporate into the ether and the remaining 10% underperform, take far longer than expected, and cost 100x as much.

Elon is running SpaceX like an iron foundry, shit need to work and work needs to be done, no excuses about things being difficult.

>>12516809
They're not stars, they're the result of cosmic rays interacting with the color pixels in the camera.

>>12516806
>Was it worth it?
Only because it was a semi-permanent space habitat and without it the US would have had none. It failed IMO to accomplish anything seriously noteworthy though compared to it's enormously high cost. The second a single crewed Starship orbits the Earth the ISS will be entirely obsolete and if anybody starts making large inflatable habitats it will really demonstrate for the wider public just how flawed of an idea it was to begin with.

>>12516813
>Elon is running SpaceX like an iron foundry
Are you saying he is the iron man?

>>12516806
>20 years of microgravity research that has and will pay dividends for technology
>decades of medical research to help understand how to survive long term in space
>decades of logistical experience in running a space station
>decades of experience in life support maintenance and operations
Yeah, it's totally not important at all. not like it's a necessary step in the process of long term solar system habitation

>>12516806
Literally a waste of time and money. It took the entire Shuttle and ISS program for the eggheads involved to figure out that doing high stress low rep exercise cures bone and muscle wasting, because they fucked around having the astronauts do low stress cardio for DECADES. Fuck eggheads they don't know how to do anything. We don't even really need to know how to solve the problems of spending years in zero G anyway because it only takes a few months to get to Mars and we already know we can do artificial G by spinning two habitats around a common point connected by a tether (Gemini did this, I'm not joking).

>>12516816
i still dont believe it

PAD CLEAR
PAD CLEAR
IT BEGINS

On the L1 magnetosphere generator idea
We could generate the fields to prevent the stripping of Mars’ atmosphere but it would require a wide field to be made, which could be generated by a modified plasma magnet sail and would require periodic maintenance to keep it running smoothly. L1 would also be a strategic jumping off point for anything coming in or out of Mars space
It would likely be best if a space colony stationed at L1 to generate that field, to maintain the station and could be a major spaceport to control Mars space
Sunward side could be shielded by a CSP plant to power the station and the field generator

>>12516813
>which was obviously based on NASA oldspace concept art and 1990s CGI
Nothing wrong with being inspired by that stuff. What's needed is the drive to make it real. Jeff doesn't have the drive to do that. Most likely because he knows that he's too wealthy to fail.

>>12516059
That pic is gold and perfectly describes 99% of blue checkmarks.

>>12516819
Stainless steel man
SS Man if you will

>>12516823
why are you so convinced

>>12516820
All of that could've been done on a smaller and cheaper station than the ISS

>>12516821
>he thinks mars gravity won't cause health problems

>>12516823
HOLD

>>12516822
Don't believe what? If you try to take a picture with a digital camera sitting in a flux of MeV and GeV radiation you're gonna see pixels being lit up as they have that energy deposited by those particles.

>>12516833
Because the cars just drove out of there and the pad clear signal is up.

>>12516821
>we can do artificial G by spinning two habitats around a common point connected by a tether
I will never understand oldspace's fear of spin stations.

>>12516828
>Stainless steel man
>Stainless Stalin

>>12516837
Cant they make better cameras?

>>12516826
I know there's nothing wrong with inspiration, but without being willing to confront the reality of what it takes to get there, you'll never get to a real version of that inspiration.

>>12516823
ROAD CLOSURE CANCELLED
STAND BY

>>12516835
Never said that. I said we don't need to worry about solving zero G, because we can replicate 1G in space and therefore spend indefinite time transferring between planets and shit.

>>12516834
sure, but it wasn't ever going to be because of bureaucracy. same with literally everything else nasa has ever done

>>12516843
>oldspace
>doing anything better

>>12516850
it's a nikon bro

>>12516847
Somehow I doubt 0G and .4G will have a completely separate set of issues

Space is fake.

>twitter edition
OP, this was your doing.
That depressed anon inspired me to make a video. 2021 is gonna be based as fuck, just pray for no deadline slips.

https://youtu.be/d-9kZFntSj4

Say what you want and piss and moan about the shuttle as much as you want but if it wasn’t for the shuttle and ISS we would never have gotten SpaceX and eventually Starship.

I’m willing to debate people on this. A manned mars mission in the 80’s would’ve been cool but once three or four of them happened NASA would’ve lost its political drive and stayed in LEO ANYWAYS except with the ISS being built in the 2020s instead of the 2000s.

Also reusable rockets when operated by a government do not work. They’re expensive as fuck thanks to autistic contracting. Only a private company can make a successful and cheap reusable rocket. The shuttle was doomed before its birth - even the dolphin sex version.

>>12516821
And we have absolutely zero idea what minimum g is needed for a 6 month transfer to mars to negate health concerns
Is it .1 ? .25? Will mars at .4 require regular centrifuge treatment ?

>>12516840
If they didn't cling to FUD about tethers they'd have to abandon their current 150 year plan to milk space exploration as being extremely difficult and oh-so-dangerous and unknown and hard and oh gosh we need to solve this problem before we do anything!! Shit like "astronauts eyes may change shape and make them go blind" was disproven the first dozen times we put people into space during the Mercury program and is STILL pushed as a potential risk today, by people who either are being dishonest on purpose, who are completely ignorant, or are genuinely concerned that eye-deformation-induced-blindness will start showing up after *sixteen* months in space rather than *eight* so we need to be afraid of it. Fun fact, if that last group had their way and we did some 16 month ISS stays they'd immediately move the goalpost to say "oh well you don't know about 24 month zero G missions though!".
The ISS started off as a thing for the Shuttle to do to justify keeping it flying, and evolved into its own make-work program which simultaneously killed any competitor technology or method of solving the zero G issues in the crib.

>>12516863
even von braun knew.....oh my god

>>12516873
the 6 month transfer is not at all the problem. we've had people in space for over a year with no major issues. the problem is that nobody knows if long term habitation on mars is even feasible. sure, 1 or 2 years can probably work based on what we know from ISS, but what about beyond that? we don't even know if we can have kids on mars. that would put an end to colonization fantasies real fast

>>12516843
How are you going to make a camera sensor that doesn't pick up the energy of high energy particles but does pick up the energy of visible photons, anon? It's like trying to make a camera that can see something as bright as a candle but not pick up the light of a nuclear bomb in the background.
The only option to avoid any of that radiation static would be to have the camera embedded in a thick spherical shell with an optically clear but radiation opaque front that the camera could look out. Since Cosmic rays take ~10 meters of water to block, you're gonna need a sphere with a radius of about 10 meters and thus a volume of 4200 cubic meters, which at water's density would mass ~4200 metric tons. Quite a large mass budget for a single camera to get rid of something that isn't even a real problem anyway.

>>12516875
You make a very good point but I don't want to accept that because it makes me incredibly angry.

>>12516861
Again, I didn't say 0.38 G won't have issues. I'm saying we can live in 1 G until an hour before we land on Mars, so we don't need to worry about the trip TO Mars having any ill effects from reduced gravity.

>>12516871
>Vulcan
>New Glenn
>Starship/Superheavy
>H3
>SLS
>6 gorillion little smallsat companies
Yeah it’ll be a great year however.

>Pray for no delays
There were delays. Seriously though expect most of these to not even fly in 2021. Vulcan, SLS, New Glenn are more likely to fly in 2022+. Also I highly doubt an entire Starship stack makes it to orbit in 2021 but more Starship testing is cool.

>>12516888
digital cameras are not limited by kinks in hardware. use machine learning or a simple noise filter to remove the excitations or normalize

>>12516872
>Say what you want and piss and moan about the shuttle as much as you want but if it wasn’t for the shuttle and ISS we would never have gotten SpaceX and eventually Starship.
Alright but NASA still deserves shit for continuing the terrible practices started by the Shuttle and ISS after decades of proof that they are awful for the productivity and growth of a space program

>>12516258
Ruler of Mars is called the elon.
It was foretole.

>>12516875
you also have to consider that they have to do this because they have nothing to move on to yet. it's not like NASA can just throw their hands up and say "ok, let's move on to the next thing" without congressional approval

>>12516898
>This image isn't realistic! Why can't they use machine learning post processing on it instead?

>>12516897
I mostly agree, I think we see a fully stacked starship but no orbit. I actually really enjoy all the small sat companies, give the field a lot of variety, even if their business case is shaky.

>>12516911
true, you could say that about all modern astronomy. it's all fake, run through a billion filters and cherry picked to hell. lots arent even convinced that black hole picture shows a real signal, it's all confirmation bias

>>12516806
Knowledge on the effects of zero-g on living things is useful, though it could also be studied during a Mars transfer. Stuff like protein crystallization are memes.

>>12516826
You wouldn't even need to start with a city sized O'Neil cylinder to utterly revolutionize all space travel. A habitat composed of thin steel spars and kevlar tension cables with a kevlar bilayer filled with insulation and fused together with air tight zippers with a bolt-on aluminum outer shell with a diameter of 200m and length of 500m could hold a whopping 20 million cubic meters of pressurized volume. A 50x200m cylinder would contain half a million cubic meters of pressurized volume and only need to spin at about 4.2 or 4.3RPM to give a half G of simulated gravity.
Mini-O'Neil cylinders are also well within Starship's payload capacity, assuming the kevlar bilayer weighs about 2.4kg per square meter (based on each side being 20 layers thick) a 50x200m capsule shape would weigh 520 tons, call it 7 Starship flights into orbit. Another 900 tons of insulation (assuming 17kg/m^3 and a half meter of insulation) so another 9 or 10 starship flights near full load. Maybe 46 10 and 15m long thin steel spars to make up 4 spoke wheels to give the habitat structural rigidity and shape each weighing about 5-600kg shouldn't mass more than 30 tons, a single Starship can deliver those to the construction site.

All the other shit necessary to make this hollow capsule into an actual livable habitat will probably take another kiloton or two of materiel, call it maybe 50 Starship flights even to establish the single largest practical orbital habitat ever conceived by human beings, probably wouldn't cost much more than the ISS if even that, since it would be made of common mass produced materials.

>>12516878
>Christian man who likes space had a Bible quote about space put on his gravestone, therefore.....?

>>12516806
Yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_research_on_the_International_Space_Station

>>12516820
Also this

>>12516821
retard

>>12516725
>Religion is fake because it's fake.

You can't actually demonstrate that.
Buddhists literally believe that life sucks and that we should all try to commit permanent suicide and never exist ever again, so I guess I can see why a depressed atheist would like it.

>>12516835
There's no evidence it'd cause health problems. You have to prove it would if you want anyone to believe that.

>>12516872
You're not incorrect but by extension any sentiment towards the ISS and any oldspace program before it is completely wasted. Those legacy programs were all incredibly wasteful, if necessary, and should be set up now as an example of how NOT to do space exploration and development.

>>12516873
Zero is fine, since ISS stays are already 6 months and people are fine after 48 to 72 hours of readjusting to Earth G. However, even if 6 months of zero G isn't fine, the logical thing to do would just be to jump straight to 1 G of tether gravity, because that way astronauts arrive at their 0.38 G environment at full health. That way even if 0.38 G causes body systems to degrade over time, the total amount of degradation will be minimized. On the return trip the tether gravity can be slowly raised from 0.38 G to 1 G, eliminating further degradation and transitioning back to 1 G in a much less abrupt manner.

Why don't we just make a spinning space habitat at 0.38g and have people live in it for a while to settle the question with actual evidence

>>12516937
earth is flat, the dome is real. stop jumping to conclusions

>>12516916
Oh yeah I entirely agree there. It's just weird to complain about entirely natural image artefacts being fake, and then suggest editing them out as a solution.

>>12516782
something retarded probably, like most of their other opinions

>>12516976
Speaking of fake astronomy, when will the dark matter meme go away?

>>12516963
Before we do that, we should figure out how to launch such a thing on FH and have the station made by a single contractor at a fixey price.
Otherwise it will take forever and cost ridiculous amounts of money.

>>12516885
>we don't even know if we can have kids on mars. that would put an end to colonization fantasies real fast
Nah, we'd still colonize Mars, we just wouldn't colonize it in the sense that many purists think, where Martians ONLY live on Mars. They'd just push for their own domestic space launch and development program where they'd start mining Phobos for the materials needed to build a gigantic fleet of space habitats for pregnant women, babies, and children to grow up on. Mars would still be inhabited full time by adults, it would have cities and parks and large scale ecological terrarium experiments etc, it just wouldn't have people reproducing. You want kids? Sure, it's the cost equivalent of a $2000 ticket to buy a seat on a launch to Space Nursery #1461, you're gonna go there and impregnate your wife and live with her and your child for ten to fifteen years, then you're gonna go back down to Mars.

>>12516888
checked and high quality post

>>12516936
Expanding on this, 520 tons of Kevlar costs about 14 million dollars. Can't find a cost per weight for insulation but let's assume that it costs twice as much as the kevlar and call it 28 million for insulation. The steel is going to cost less than 20k so barely even a rounding error in the station's overall cost. Launch costs for 3.5kT of material at 50$/kg (assuming more than double Starship's optimistic estimate) will cost an additional 175 million dollars. In addition a construction team of approximately 100 people working nonstop for 5 years at an average salary of say half a million a year will be another 250 million. This would bring total station cost including launch cost to about 467 million dollars, but lets be pessimistic on top of that and double all of it, making the final cost 934 million dollars or still less than 1/150th the cost of the ISS.

>>12516898
this is not possible without potentially losing other details that are important, differently from cosmic ray pixels.

>>12516863
So you're saying God isn't powerful enough to make space?

>>12516890
Embrace the anger anon. Let it propel you into the future of space flight, where real shit happens.

>>12516983
>Anon thinks atheists will ever have a birthrate above 2

Mormon Mars now

>>12516983
>?build space habitats for rotation gravity rather than circular tilted train tracks

The mindset of space habitat autists

>>12516624
>privatizing space exploration so the public no longer has a say in it
No one asked me about ULA/Lockeed/Boeing bullshit before.

>>12516996
No one asked me about anything NASA does, either. The "government" is not "the public" or "the people".

UDMH/RFNA open cycle la ding starship when?

>>12516906
I agree, but who cares about what NASA wants at this point? It's old hat. Starship being a thing will allow places like Zimbabwe to afford to buy their own space stations ten times larger than the ISS if they want. The era of national programs being required to do things in space is coming to a close, for real. Commercial and private entities are MONTHS away from being able to break through those gates and do shit. NASA's best possible future is becoming like the FAA, where they are just an overarching authority that doesn't really DO anything on their own.

Cryoproof test happening right now on SN9. Hope fully static fire tomorrow. And maybe flight on Jan 1?

>>12517003
Zimbabwe galactic empire now!1

>>12516944
The worst part of Buddhism is also the main point Buddhism, I agree. If Buddhism didn't have that woo-woo aspect to it it would pretty much just be a lifestyle, not a religion, and not-coincidentally would be better.

>>12516806
The greatest achievement of the ISS was helping to develop a commercial space sector.

>>12516963
>Because we need to solve Zero G first!!
Unironically there is no good reason to avoid doing what you suggest. There are plenty of bullshit political reasons.

>>12516806
Yes, it serve as a target for elon-shills to pretend that space didn't exist before SpaceX and that none of the experience they learned about EVA, stations maintenance, long duration mission and structural integrity come from it.

>>12517007
The worst thing about Buddhism is that edgy teenage life sucks stuff. The best part about Buddhism is that it teaches you how to experience no-self. You can call it woo but meditation experience-based religions literally offer guides to having mystical experiences. And experience is far more important than theory.

>>12517012
Everything we needed to know was learned from Mir and Skylab. Some might even say we learned it all during Apollo. Point is, ISS is a shit.

>>12517007
I want a religion that involves Nietzschean affirmation.

>>12517011
0 g and 0.38g or even 0 g and 0.05g are radically different environments from eachother, because in one, there is no "down" at all, and in the other, there is a "down", it's just not as strong as it is here.

>>12516995
You made me think to the Road must Roll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

/p/ here:
Digital cameras usualy have the ability to output images either in a compressed format (usualy .jpg) and a raw format.
The raw format is pretty much the digitized signal from the sensor in a lossless compression and contains unfiltered noise as well as a much larger dynamic range.
Noise reduction is usualy applied later by the user if required.
Also noise reduction is usualy not done by machine learning AI, that is only one option.
More commonly used are algorythms humans came up with and these only work with the few neighbouring pixels.

However in astrophotography/astronomy another technique is commonly used, it's called "stacking"
You line up images (lightframes) and average them out, this greatly reduces noise as the signal is consistent but the noise is random.
Pattern noise is dealt with by exposures with a closed shutter (darkframes) to substract the pattern noise and hot pixels from the lightframes.

Main issue with stacking is that you need dozends of exposures and these often are allready at rather long exposure times.

>>12517012
Was it worth the 150Bn investment though, or could that same amount of space time have been achieved faster, at less expense, and at a greater scale, if the US's space projects were managed in a better manner?
Lets just remove SpaceX entirely from the equation and say that NASA just started aggressively posting normal bid+negotiation contracts with payouts only on delivery of components and material to assemble multiple purpose built large orbital habitats. No no-bid contracts, few if any pork projects. Do you think we'd have the ISS or do you think we'd have something more to show?

>>12516624
I'm glad that communist retards like this one will never become relevant in politics or science to a degree able to stop western exploration of space

>>12516980
When we find some inaccuracy in our measurement data which explains the anomalously high rotational rates of all galaxies.
Dark matter should really be called mass-gravitational discrepancy, because that's what it is. Galaxies simply spin too fast for how much matter they contain; it'd be like if all the planets went around the Sun as fast as they do, but the Sun were 70% less massive than it would need to be to cause that to happen (or rather, if the Sun were still 1 solar mass, but was physically smaller and less bright and had all of the features of a star 30% the mass of the actual Sun).

Another analogy; Say you have a glass box with an object inside, and you measure the attraction of a mass outside the box to a mass inside the box. Based on this attractive force you estimate the mass of the object in the box. Now you remove the object and weigh it, and you find that it only has a mass 30% as big as the one you calculated. You have either miscalculated, your basic assumptions about the content of the box are incorrect, or your understanding of gravitational attraction is incorrect. So you do the math again a million times, and you test your understanding of gravity by doing experiments a thousand different ways, and both of those processes find no errors. You're left with the options that either your theories are incorrect in some extremely subtle way you haven't thought of yet, or there's something else inside the box that you can't see but is exerting the remaining 70% of the gravitational force.

That's all dark matter is. It's the best way to explain what we see when we observe galaxies. The problem of figuring out what dark matter actually IS is that there are many things it COULD be, from heavy particles that don't interact through the other three fundamental forces, to quintillion-ton microscopic black holes formed during the first few milliseconds of the universe's beginning, to cosmic strings, to a bunch of other shit.

>>12517048
I remember reading something about an alternative to dark matter involving supposed anomalies in a binary star system but I have no idea what the idea was actually called

>>12517047
You're delusional. They're everywhere.
They have spent the last sixty years successfully placing themselves in key points of academia and government.

>>12516629
mmh... I wonder if there's some kind of pattern here...

>>12516980
When mike mcculloch finally tests his QI tape outgassing drive and the acceleration is way more than he expected and he gets pinned to his seat, unable to turn the engine off until it burns through all its fuel and he is long gone from the solar system.

Here we go again with the /pol/ ranting

>>12517055
not where I live.
if there are so many, it is time they start to be removed from their position by any means necessary.

>>12517056
>he still needs to manually look up early life
shiggy

>>12517056
NO ELON DON'T DO IT!

>>12517061
>not where I live.
It's international. It started in Europe. It started with Continental Philosophy. But was given a major uptick in America during the '60s.
People like Popper and Derrida have done damage from which it will take centuries to recover.

The hard sciences have done well to keep the infiltration at a minimum, but it is there. It affects funding.

>>12516993
Unironically this, ideologies on Earth which promote reproduction will inherit the stars. That's just natural selection at work.

It will be interesting to see how the expanding shell of colonization expanding through the cosmos leads to a vanguard wave of mormon-style civilization which shows up and grows and grows until it reaches Dyson swarm levels of development, which then must transition to a long-lived zero net growth civilization, which then ages and matures into something else over hundreds of thousands of years, possibly consolidating individuals into larger and larger megaminds and eventually a single massive intelligence distributed around that star, which could then become a part of even further consolidation across multiple stars and culminate in a supermind interstellar brain network which could idk play tetris really fast or something

>>12517075
Based god-making

>>12516624
Because hippies fucking loved it when NASA spent billions of dollars building the Saturn V right?
>A rat done bit my sister nell...

>>12516995
A big steel can rotating in space is unironically simpler to build and maintain than a big train going in a circle on the ground on Mars.

>>12517070
Just enjoy the ride my dude
History is a big ol' story and you get to live it
Even be a character in the story if you want. Take power. Conquer. Change da 'Erf

>>12517014
>You can call it woo
The woo is the parts about enlightenment and nirvana and shit. That's all fake, but the psychological benefits of having real control over one's mental state are definitely real.

Give it to me straight, bro’s. Would DIRECT have worked?

>>12516995
Yes, your spin station can be two big counter-rotating drums that will passively continue to spin with almost no input whatsoever needed, while a spin-colony groundside requires constant power and is eventually going to need to stop for maintenance and then restart again afterwards and this will happen regularly over time. It's a waste of energy and resources since once you do have steady power it would be easier to send reusable shuttlecraft up and down to a 1G station if need be, especially on low gravity worlds like Mars or the Moon.

>>12517075
>That's just natural selection at work.
history really does love irony. That religions would ultimately have a huge edge due to scientific reasons.

Anyways, does anyone have a guesstimate as to when the cryoproof is happening today. This'll be the ultimate test of whether or not SN9's tip messed anything up or not. Hope she comes out in one piece. Though oh yeah she's made of 304L stainless now, so a leak shouldn't be catastrophic because it doesn't get brittle.

>>12517027
I agree.
>>12517055
Space communists/socialists will be valuable, because their collapsed and abandoned failed settlements will be a great source of cheap iron and aluminum.

>>12517100
Starships seem to be able to survive leaks during cryo testing. SN8 leaked twice without popping

>>12517101
and corpses will make nice fertilizer

>>12517100
Atheism is retarded. I can understand agnosticism but most atheists go off the deep end and become faggots. Religion is based I respect Muhammad and Rajesh more than Greta Unkle from the Swedish institute of sucking cock

>>12516875
They'll also cite bone and muscle loss, but when they replaced stupid amounts of cardio with actual resistance exercise, that issue left pretty much entirely. The only real concern now is that with no gravity, your body balloons up with blood and you end up in pain back on earth.
The only legitimate concern

>>12517114
Imagine getting to travel the world in a racing yacht and talk to world leaders and complaining about how teh evil petroleum stole your future

>>12517097
Assuming that oldspace can get their shit together? Yes.

>>12517124
Parents groomed her to be an activist from an early age, I can't really blame her for being a retard. Just a shame that her parents and peers are shitbag sociopaths who were A-OK with mentally warping a child and filling them with existential terror and anxiety because they were taught to believe they're literally living in the middle of the apocalypse.

>>12516897
Doesn't vulcan already have launch contracts for this year?
Seems like vulcan is locked in for a 2021 launch.

>>12517124
I’m a zoomer so take this with a grain of salt but I feel bad when I see Greta. Either she’s playing us or she’s being manipulated by her parents. Also anyone who says the Earth is the future is a faggot

>>12517133
I hope it flies in 2021. Tory Bruno has sent me mail like 3 or 4 times and I want it to work for them. However BE-4 keeps shitting the bed and they have yet to receive a flight worthy BE4

>>12517132
Sounds dumb. I just show my son how to rip off a squirrel’s skin

>>12517141
My son hates me and I haven’t seen him in two years

>>12517133
Theyre getting engines late summer. Maybe late 2021 is flight? But likely may be related to 2022

>>12517132
Climate alarmism is utterly baffling. Such worries seem completely disconnected from the practical world around us.

>>12517145
That’s awful. Hope you fix that

>>12517097
Yes, 95% of it would work. The part where they bring hydrogen slush to Mars would probably not work. However, ISRU would still work, they'd just need to either bring methane and only make oxygen in situ (that still makes 80% of the propellant mass on Mars) or they'd do water harvesting and make 100% of the propellant on Mars but need additional complexity.
Everything else is guaranteed to work, if development proceeded with Zubrin in charge (best case scenario). The SHLV would have actually been useful, the various modules would have not been overcomplicated or cost billions, the missions would have been valuable in terms of data collected and experience gained.

What would a space religion look like?
>emphasis on personally motivating yourself to explore
>punishing good samaritans is a deadly sin
>technological animism
>gremlins like to damage technology but human sight is toxic to them
>incense burning
>after death your soul will be weighed for how far you traveled both physically and spiritually

>Space religion
>Twitter edition

>>12517112
freeze dried for easy grinding into spreadable powder
>>12517114
Atheism is not counter to agnosticism. Agnosticism is counter to gnosticism, ie claiming knowledge. An agnostic claims that they don't know either way. An atheist lacks a belief in god or gods. A theist has a belief in a god or gods. An agnostic atheist lacks a belief in a god or gods but doesn't make the claim that they know there is no god. I think you get the picture.
Note that an agnostic atheist can still own christ-tards if they want without failing to remain agnostic, because since christianity is based on a book which makes a wide range of specific, falsifiable claims, these claims can be attacked and pwned in epic fashion without ever claiming that no god exists.

>>12517160
Catholicism but without Vatican II

>>12517160
I can dig it. I’m not that spiritual but should some chaplains be deployed to Mars I think I would become very religious. Especially considering the fact that death will be around every corner and a strong sense of community and religion would be very beneficial. I would prefer pre vatican II style religion though, with chants and prayer and mysticism. None of that nu-wave christian rock bullshit.

>>12517114
>Greta Unkle from the Swedish institute of sucking cock
desu I'd definitely let her suck my cock, I bet she'd love it too, that childlike-yet-perfectly-above-18-and-legal slut

>>12517169
>>12517174
Based oldschool catholics

>>12517141
Having to be shown how to skin a small mammal is like needing to be shown how to twist open an oreo, it's already so intuitive it's worrying if they can't figure it out

>>12517146
I thought they already got the BE-4s?

>>12517141
Based.

>>12517152
Zubrin has never run anything why would you want to put him in charge
Need someone with vision like Musk

>>12517169
Catholicism but WITH Vatican III that overturns the dumb parts of Vatican II

>>12517184
Yes, but no

>>12517184
They have high fidelity BE-4 shaped objects, yes

>>12516624

>>12517184
They have test-engines, not proper engines.

>>12517191
Zubrin had 100x more vision than all of 90's NASA put together, I would have given him emergency executive powers after his first Mars Direct presentation if it were up to me. Granted this current timeline is definitely becoming something very promising and having Mars missions routine by 2010 would definitely alter things in a big way, but Starship is such an intuitive concept that I can't imagine a fully reusable super heavy lift TSTO would not be at the very least under development by now in that alternate universe.

>>12516624
Good thing space isn't controlled by one billionaire then

Jesus Christ whoever wrote those tweets is a dumb cunt who should be shot by firing squad

>>12517047
Anon, these loonies are everywhere. That's what makes them scary - the average /x/tard is merely entertaining. But imagine a situation where entire nations are ran by those and they have influence on culture and policies.

>>12517191
This, theoreticians are important, you need a wellspring of new ideas constantly being put forward. Then you need practical business guys like Elon who understand the material but also understand how to assemble teams of people and production lines to get work done, and then you need your autistics who will spend all day actually working on the stuff.

>>12516654
Atheists are correct and religious people aren't.

Also, Catholics are notorious for abusing children, if you're going to play that game.

>>12516806
It was supposed to be space dock for the shuttles to supply with everything that will act as a staging point for missions to fucking everywhere. Instead it became a political boondoggle to tie ex-soviet engineers into employment, give lots of money to military contractors, and waste several decades to discover that "lots of time in zero g could be bad - we need more research and another space station like that to know for sure".

>>12517219
Middle school debate class prepared you well, I see

>>12516689
People who believe in religion abuse children. It's rife in the Catholic church.

>>12516538
It means we've got a space elevator aka whatever promises you read it will deliver, and we've got them on top of a system for traveling between the planets.

>>12517219
>Atheists are correct and religious people aren't.

Gnostic theism and gnostic atheism are equally lacking in evidence. The only distinction is that your life will probably be better if you're a theist.

>>12517227
>People who believe in religion abuse children.

People who don't believe in religion abuse children. It's an empty claim unless you have per capita data on it.

>>12517208
Mars direct is just another Apollo boondoggle
Without building from the ground up like Spacex no one will be getting anywhere in space

does anyone have any data on 2nd stages? Would be interesting to compare Centaur to F9's upper stage, for instance. I've come across the claim that F9's actually has higher delta V, for instance, but I've been unable to find a source for that info.

Since the logical conclusion to atheism is suicide, the only necessary response to atheist arguments is "kill yourself". Anything more and you're wasting time letting them try to drag you into their black hole of an ideology.

>>12517216
Hindu caste system

>>12517003
> Starship being a thing will allow places like Zimbabwe to afford to buy their own space stations ten times larger than the ISS if they want.
Do you really think they'd be able to do such a thing though, even if they wanted?

>>12517233

Everybody knows christtards rape little kids.

>>12517239
The Wikipedia articles have dry mass, wet mass, ISP, thrust, and whatnot for second stages. If you have the ISP, and the wet mass, and the dry mass, you can calculate the delta/v

>>12517027
Agreed, but many people act like microgravity and low gravity are the same because popsci told them. Its infuriating.

>>12517245
Time portal from 2012 YouTube really leaking out some nasty bastards

>>12517239
>go to dv calculator
>plug in stage mass, dry mass, and engine isp
>???

As for who has more dv it actually depends on the payload a lot but there are other considerations. The F9 stage has a lot of it, but it also burns quite hefty bit to get into orbit - the centaurs are typically staged almost there.

>>12517239
http://www.astronautix.com/c/centaurstageseries.html
http://www.astronautix.com/f/falcon9.html
http://www.astronautix.com/a/ariane5.html

>In the mid-1960s NASA considered "a three-man flyby of Venus"[1] as part of the Apollo Applications Program, using hardware derived from the Apollo program. Launch would have taken place on October 31, 1973, with a Venus flyby on March 3, 1974 and return to Earth on December 1, 1974. Several mission profiles were considered for launch during the 1970s [2] and the 1973 mission appears to be the one that received most serious consideration and is best documented.
Would it have been possible with reasonable risks and little shortcuts, and would it have had any significant research benefits that could not be attained with probes?

>>12517160
Mormonism

>>12517254
Longest Apollo mission is 12 days but you think they can do a year+ in a capsule ?

>>12517249
>Time portal from 2012 YouTube really leaking out some nasty bastards
You mean time portal from pagan larpers on /pol/?

>>12517249
That was the joke, actually. Though not from youtube and hailing from a few years earlier.

Fun times. Feverishly arguing about rocks and the nature of lifting things. In my memory a peculiar "solution" that caused butthurt is still fresh - God will "lift the rock" by pushing away the universe in the other direction with his legs while doing the motion. It wasn't lifting as in lifting but it was also lifting. Lots of pure autistic rage was involved.

Now everything is just as autistic but much worse with the IRL utterly and completely merged with the internet.

>>12517262
They'd use the S-IVB like Skylab, one tank for more space and one for waste storage, with more equipment being stored in it before being loaded with fuel. I don't think it'd be easy, tech would allow it, but I wonder just how insane it'd have been.

>>12517262
As far as I'm aware flyby missions involved skylab.

>>12517262
Presumably they would have a living habitat docked to them for more room

speaking of centaur, I didn't know it uses steel balloon tanks

>>12517266
>>12517270
>>12517271
>just bolt some extra living space on the spacecraft
I miss when NASA solved problems like this

>>12517239
Falcon 9 upper stage has more delta V because its reduction in Isp is more than offset by its massive wet-dry mass ratio. However if you start adding payload mass on top the reduction in total stage delta V per kg added is greater than Centaur, with its higher Isp.

>>12517275
It helped that they had an ace up theirs sleeve: the saturn rocket family. It could lift just about anything to space. It was expensive as fuck though. Hopefully this is where starship will really change the game
https://youtu.be/DSK_mymJvkM

>>12517265
Omnipotence arguments are dumb as Hell and I used to have a lot of those. In hindsight, it seems very obvious that the theist in the argument could solve the whole issue by framing God's omnipotence as "God can do anything that is logically coherent."

>>12517226
Ad hominem is not an argument.

>>12517230
There is no evidence for any god and therefore no reason to believe that one exists.

>>12517233
I would wager that the per capita rate of child abuse is higher among Catholic priests than among atheists.

>>12517254
iirc there was actually a massive random solar flare during the period the mission would have taken place that would have killed any crew aboard

>>12517044
It was worth it because there was no other alternative and we made good use of it.
The only relevant question is wether we should be working to make a new one and how to do it better.
Be it docking standard, energy/fluid transfer, thermal management
Or functionality: having space dock to assemble a multipart spaceship, refueling for orbital tugs, work on way to avoid/reduce space debris, be built from the start to allow testing of rotating space habitat, anti-radiation generator... etc

(so no I'm not replacing it by a Starship Elon, stop asking)

>>12517243
What's for them 'to be able' to do? They will be able to buy habitat modules from commercial suppliers and pay SpaceX to launch and dock them together. They'll also pay SpaceX for the transportation of humans to their station, and also for the flight suits the people will wear. Zimbabwe literally does not need to develop anything on their own. This is great for commercial space because it's more money funneled into them, and Zimbabwe (as well as many other countries not nearly as economically and socially broken) has a good incentive to want this, because of the clout that comes along with having a functioning space program. A modern day parallel is the Canadian space program; we don't have launch vehicles, we hardly build payloads. We just have astronauts and robotic arms.

>>12517254
Venus is the only planet in the solar system where more scientific work can be done using robots than using humans.

>>12517048
>>12517054
The alternative I heard was antimatter having repulsive gravity-like effect, also answering the discrepancy with matter.

>>12517289
I would wager that you eat poo

>>12517275
>just solve the problem
I also miss this NASA, we need to bring it back

>>12517298
>What's for them 'to be able' to do
A subsaharan african country to not fuck up when running a space station in some way. Its ironic though, that what will require whole african countries to do (running an ISS sized or greater space station) will probably be doable by small to medium sized corporations and universities in the west.

>>12517284
NASA developing the Saturn family was also an example of solving a problem.

>>12517284
>expendable landers
>with dropoff tanks
>even for phobos
The concept is cool, but it's full of old design mistakes.

>>12517291
Scary. Solar cycle around that time, peaking with 1972, was quite violent with storms and ejections.
>>12517301
Thought so, not much that an human can study through that thick atmosphere that probes can't do, it could've carried some specific instrumentation I suppose but they would only have had three hours to do anything with it.

>>12517316
Imagine sizing the vehicle for the mission, and then getting it done in a reasonable time...

>>12517315
The west is dying. Future is BLACK

>>12517289
I would wager the per capita rate of child abuse is higher or similar among school teachers than it is catholic priests

>>12517307
This would produce a noticeably different grand-scale structure than we observe, though. Besides, at best repulsive antimatter would be able to account for 50% of the observed 70% missing mass-effect, if the repulsive antimatter hypothesis is also meant to explain the missing antimatter.

>>12517324
Yeah, for all types of scientific study that are not taking place on the surface of an object (ie, most of geology), humans are mega-GOAT tier. However, especially for orbital surveys, robotic spacecraft are better, because all a human does in that situation is press the ON buttons on instruments, and that can be done by a computer communicating with Earth via radio just as well (better in fact).

>>12517333
What if there's some superantimatter in the antimatter though?

>>12517333
Scientist I read it from (don't ask where) was confident it explained the shape of galaxy clusters, basically saying the empty space is antimatter repulsing everything else.

>>12517345
You made me google supermatter
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_the_Supermatter

>>12517345
Then where is the supermatter?

>>12517356
It's here, it's Germane!
The ultimate rocket fuel

So is SpaceX still working on a larger fairing for Falcon 9/Heavy or did they drop that project?

>>12517344
How long would a human take to do all the the things the rovers have done already. One week?

>>12517366
Probably shelved, there's no demand for it from anyone even NASA. There was some chance for that + wider upper stage because of Orion but that ship is long gone.

>>12517274
Atlas Centaur was literally a 100% stainless steel rocket. The last one flew in 2005.

>>12517310
I would wager that you're a pedophilic Catholic.

>>12517329
Doubt it.

>>12517374
Post body

>>12517370
Judging by the distance covered by most rovers ~ day, including sleep and suiting.

>>12517370
A human with a shovel can do more than has been done in 60 years of Martian and lunar exploration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_3Kh0gHB8
>SpaceX's Launch Pad Problem

>>12517160
Russian Cosmism should be the basis

>>12517262
The mission flew on a free return trajectory, so they'd just vent the S-IVB after the burn and turn it into a wet workshop using supplies stored in the SLA. Basically a ghetto, interplanetary Skylab.

>>12517370
If they have a little battery or fuel cell (or even compressed CO2) powered buggy to cover distance, they could probably do most of the stuff in the day, given a set of hand tools with the same functionality as the rover's tools. Any EV car today has enough range in the battery to surpass in one day pretty much all major Lunar and Martian rovers put together.

>>12517370
Well, after however many years on Mars, the Opportunity rover drove about one marathon's distance. If a person was walking that same path pulling a cart full of instruments they'd be able to make most of the same observations (some instruments required many days of irradiating a sample with a neutron source, but that can be done by taking labeled samples and irradiating them later for gamma spectroscopy) in a few days? More or less. A team of 6 geologists (backed up with 4 more mission engineers) would easily be able to accomplish an equivalent to ALL of the data gathered by Mars robotic surface missions in history over the course of a week, as a pessimistic estimate. Working at that pace over the course of a 1.5 year long Mars surface stay, with a solid 70 weeks of actual science gathering (a few weeks on Mars will be spent getting shit set up at the start and getting shit packed up at the end), we would accomplish a dataset equivalent to what would take literal centuries of our most advanced robotic missions to gather, AND it would include much higher quality data from things like trench excavations and deep subsurface heat probes and stuff (things almost impossible for robots to do which humans in bulky suits could easily get done).

>2020
>I am...forgotten

>>12517415
eeeehhheeheheeheheeheheheehehhheehehehehehhheeeehehehee

hiihehiheihheheehehehahhaahehehhehehee

>>12517408
>compressed CO2 powered buggy
I love this idea, you could easily have a simple steel 4000 L tank full of liquid CO2 to draw from and power a simple pneumatic engine, and it'd have high power density and near infinite rechargeability, as long as your air pumps work at your surface base and you keep the pneumatic engine lubed with graphite dust.

>>12517326
can you imagine? so silly! haha

>>12517415
At least it says "common tanking", a little slimy but they aren't claiming the ET is a drop-in solution for a big core stage that can have payload on top and engines on the bottom.

>>12517415
>1 RS-25
>2 SRBs
This is a shitpost r-right

>>12517430
look at this fucking monstrosity. Just let it blow on the pad and put it out of it's misery holy shit

>>12517415
Nobody likes you. I'm sorry.

>>12517435
There's 3 engines, they're just inline for some reason

>>12517424
Will we ever have "surface skimmer" style buggies? I essentially mean like a flying car or hovercraft. Maybe it could use ion thrusters to hover and then cold gas thrusters for locomotion. Does this hold up at all scientifically? I am brainlet

>>12517415

You think they would've stuck to those timelines? Think again. All of these programs using Shuttle components all have the goal of being job generative/retaining and generate a near infinite amount of pork for both the private sector and the politicians in charge of government budgetting.

>>12517434
But what does “common tanking” mean when you want to add like 500 tons of upper stage on top hmmmm
Though I’m sure strengthening the tank is easier than what they have pretended

>>12517452
N1.. why did it come to this..

>>12517453
Apparently SLS’ core is a totally different thing compared to the shuttle’s. It uses a new metal, is different in thickness...the only similar thing is that the “barrels” are the same length.

Funny enough SpaceX did that with their Starships and the switch from 301 to 304 Stainless, except it took them 2 months and not 7 years.

>>12517463
>except it took them 2 months and not 7 years.
Also they didn't fuck up by accidently installing the massive welding machine upside down

>>12517452
I’m confident N1 Flight 5 would’ve worked. Imagine that. The Soviets land on the moon in 1979 and the US suddenly has to compete in the era of Reagan.

>>12517468
NASA did WHAT

What went wrong?

>>12517160
>What would a space religion look like?
I don't know about religion, but space exploration and American Transcendentalism go hand in hand.

>>12517471
Boeing, not NASA.
BIG difference...

>>12517443
>ion thrusters to hover
>ultra low TWR engines to hover, low Isp thrusters to move
anon, you need to play some ksp and read some wikipedia

>>12517471
https://spacenews.com/boeing-still-tinkering-with-giant-welder-for-sls-stages/
This article doesn't explain what the problem was but I distinctly remember a NASA/Boeing employee saying that the machine was installed improperly either with something upside down or misaligned. Unfortunately I can't find a source on it so you can disregard it if you want

>>12517453
It means "you can use the same ground infrastructure to carry these tanks around, and they can be made in the same sized tooling in the factory". Everything else can change.

>>12517484
They later on had problems with welding and had to do some changes.
>A change to a welding tool in the Vertical Assembly Center (VAC) at the Michoud Assembly Facility (MAF) in New Orleans, Louisiana, had unintended consequences that in part disrupted the assembly and production schedule for the Core Stage and helped push the forecast target date for the first SLS launch on Exploration Mission-1 (EM-1) into 2019.
>https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/05/sls-core-stage-recovering-weld-pin-change/
2019.. yes, for sure..

>>12517160
>What would a space religion look like?

>>12517462
Wait, is this just a shed joke? Or is that hunk of junk actually built out of N1 parts?

>>12517477

It didnt got build. Look at that thing, its like a 1940's/1950's take on Starship and it is absolutely beautifull.

Would Von Braun have done a moon landing if Hitler won?

>>12517366
Pretty sure it's a part of NSSL along with the vertical integration facility.

>>12517509
Most likely, they allready had plans for orbital vehicles during the war.
Also the Antipodenbomber idea was just nuts for 1940s.

>>12517501
It is literally an N1 tank on its side being used as a shed.
If I'm remembering right one of the Buran orbiters or associated hardware became a pig barn, too.

closures

>>12517452
>propellant is stored in the balls
looks inefficient

>>12517551
>first stage has no common bulkhead
but why

>>12517452
Why do they use those extremely inefficient spherical tanks?

>>12517561
they were better at manufacturing them than cylindrical tanks

>>12517382
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>12517563
Which is extremely weird to think about, because a sphere is nothing but compound curves while a conventional tank is just a spherical tank with a barrel section separating the two hemispheres.

>>12517563
not exactly, they could make both but their worse metallurgy meant the hoop strength penalty of a tube vs sphere wasn't doable

>>12517551
>>12517561
Machining has come a ways, things like very long cylindrical tanks that can still hold significant pressure and common dome pressure vessels are easier to do now. Not a huge technological leap but a very significant one all the same for rockets.

>>12517372
Wrong
>>12517366
They'll be building a vertical integration building thingy on wheels. Alongside that, they'll have custom made larger fairings from RUAG. This is confirmed btw, since they won the NSSL contracts, and they recieved money for that. Also Gateway's HALO module is most likely going up with a Falcon Heavy, but it requires the extended fairing.

>>12517452
there's no reason this couldn't have eventually worked, the engines and fundamentals were good....fuck this gay world.

>>12517531
That’s so tragic, although it’s kind of cool at the same time. Hopefully whoever owns it respects it and doesn’t see it as just a piece of metal

>>12516340
>dont they know that the larger the ship, the better the mass ratio?
Not for SSTOs later in the flight, as they have to deal with lugging around unused mass with them

>>12517582
The biggest reasons it didn't work were the remoteness of the launch site vs the factory (had to take the first stage apart to transport it by rail), and the inability to test fire the actual flight engines of the first stage (pyrotechnic valves 'n sheeit)

>>12517560
A large difference in LOX/RP-1 temps, combined with limited value of mass reductions on the booster stage.

>>12517560
Kerosene gets frozen by lox, frozen kerosene slush breaks engines

>>12517546
Static fire next week?

>>12517551
the balls exist to keep their contents a little cooler, you're right it's inefficient but there are design constraints due to technical limitations

>>12517615
There's a large difference between LH2 and LOx temps too, and besides there would be a gas volume separating the RP-1 tank from the LOx tank anyway, so IDK. In fact the LOx downcomer passes directly through the RP-1 tank anyway.

lets have some music in here, /sfg/

>>12517640
https://youtu.be/GuVnZZ1sFIc

>>12517586
SSTO’s just shouldn’t exist unless a) you’re launching in a star system with a ton of hydrogen or other fuel clouds that permeate the system and allow you to refuel, or b) you have a reactionless drive
If you’re using chemical rockets with no way to refuel, then SSTO’s are absolutely useless. They might be useful if you have a network of depots across your system but alas, we don’t have that either.

>>12517582
>there's no reason this couldn't have eventually worked
It failed 4 times consecutively anon, imagine trying to justify that expense

>>12517160
Non existent

>>12517684
Yeah imagine of SS prototypes had carbon fiber tanks and expensive milled bodies. Every explosion would weaken the moral of spacex and drain the wallet. I can only imagine the pain of the russian space program every time their rocket was rushed to the pad and subsequently exploded lol

>>12517683
>a) you’re launching in a star system with a ton of hydrogen or other fuel clouds that permeate the system and allow you to refuel
Literally impossible
>b) you have a reactionless drive
Also probably impossible

SSTO is useless on Earthlike planets. It's useful for low gravity worlds, for reaching orbit. High Isp lower TWR single stage vehicles are also ideal for transferring from orbit to orbit.
Basically, with whatever technology you have at the time in whatever situation, you want to use single stage vehicles by default, BUT as soon as you enter regions where the vehicle TWR requirements and delta V requirements make single stage hard, you want to drop it and go to two stage vehicles.

>>12517691
Genuinely this, imagine being a soviet scientist knowing that your lifes work is valid and could work but will fail, explode, and be scrapped because you were given impossible deadlines and constraints. Literally having to watch your dreams blow up several times

Imagine if Starship was a military program...

https://mobile.twitter.com/US_TRANSCOM/status/1343631013034012679

>>12517708
Can I play devil’s advocate and ask how this is different with SLS and Boeing?

>>12517689
uh, based?

>>12517712
>Imagine if Starship was a military program...
It would cost 10 times as much, most contracts would go to companies that politicians are personally invested in, and would overrun both budget and deadline before eventually being either scrapped to sold to a private company (likely also owned by a politician) for pennies on the dollar

>>12517714
NASA is forced by congress to give SLS as much funding and schedule extensions as necessary perpetually, and they take advantage of that by milking every penny while not even bothering to do a good enough job to avoid bullshit problems every two seconds.

>>12517160
Would likely not have the obsession with "nature" that earth-based religions have

>>12517714
It isn't. SLS has to contend with the issues mentioned in >>12517720. That's what happens when you put politicians at the top of the decision-making process. What the fuck does a senator know about rocket science?

>>12517729
Nature is enjoyable, and humans benefit from exposure to it. Fuck off concrete Kike

>>12517712
>military openly salivating over Starship
Oldspace on suicide watch

>>12517743
You love to see it. I'm glad funding will never be a problem for starship.

>>12517737
Sure but this cult of naturalism and the excessive naturalistic fallacy that is thrown around left right and centre is ridiculous.
"I'd rather take herbs and spices than life-saving drugs because the drugs are man-made and natural=good" etc

Can't wait for the next fireworks.
Imagine doing the exact same thing and expecting different result.

How does BO justify one (1) launch for New Shepard in 2020?

>>12517626
some are saying that if the pressure and cryo tests go well we may see one this week. If they unveil problems then static fire in jan, yeah

>>12517762
But they're not doing the exact same thing. SN9 is modified based on performance data from SN8

>>12517762
They should be launching it on NY.

>>12517765
gradatim ferociter :^)

>>12517767
Is it? Pretty sure it was all ready in the high bay while SN8 committed seppuku.

>>12517765
Nigga how do they justify being a 20 year old company who hasn’t even put a payload in orbit yet? They are getting BTFO’d by rocketlab. Also why in the name of FUCK did they expect to keep that USAF contract worth half a billion. Let’s put this into perspective: ULA has designed and built vulcan from the ground up faster than new glenn, and ULA is known for being slow

>>12517765
sounding rockets are hard

>>12517729
Would likely have a greater focus on maintaining balance with nature and acting as responsible gardeners of their enclosed habitat spaces, actually.

>>12517777
They modified it based off the results of SN8. They send men into the rocket via hatches and the men change the valves, avionics, etc etc.

>>12517765
Slow and steady.

>>12517714
Because with SLS you knew you were defrauding the US government and were going to get away with it right from the start. Your dream is free money for no work, and your dream has come true.

>>12517778
And now Vulcan is being held up by none other than Blue Origin

>>12517783
From what I've seen, they were more worried about fixing it going full Pisa tower.

>>12517777
Yeah, and they made some changes after, are you new to the Starship dev program? They move quick

>>12517790
God dammit. Didn’t they get the most funding for their HLS lander bid? It looks like shit and runs on 50 year old architecture

>>12517786
The ultimate slow and steady pace is zero velocity maintained eternally. Clearly this must be the best method of achieving everything. Do nothing forever.

>>12517778
>rocketlab
Rocketlab's goals are very very different, let's not get ahead of ourselves

>>12517795
You can't lose if you never start the race.

>>12517798
Different goals like reaching orbit and making money lmao

>>12517640
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bl2SQV5sTE

>>12517801
fucking kek

so if the cryo test happens today/tomorrow I guess we can infer that the pressure test this morning went well.

>>12517799
True, it's too bad that they did already, 22 years ago.