/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1241863
Enjoy!

>>1241876
Thanks, but can anyone else vouch for this book as well?

>>1241863
What do you mean scratch? Like do you aleady know basic math? Logic? All the symbols and shit? Do you know what a biconditional statement is? and equivalence relation?

I'm doing linear algebra next semester. What the hell is linear algebra, anyway? And for that matter, what the fuck is Discrete Mathematics? I did a semester of it and it's all vaguely tied to compsci, but I'd like a more formal definition.

>>1241886
Its a good book, but you need to know basic math first (foundations of mathematics, it is usually called)

Haven't read it. But one I know is good would be;
Lay's "Linear Algebra and Its Application".
Pretty standard book good for self-study.

>>1241894
Linear algebra is the field of finite dimensional vectorspaces. You learn to solve linear systems of equations. Discrete mathematics is like graph theory and combinatorics I'd reckon.

>>1241894
so you dont know about wikipedia?

Linear algebra is a branch of mathematics concerned with the study of vectors, with families of vectors called vector spaces or linear spaces, and with functions that input one vector and output another, according to certain rules.

Discrete mathematics is the study of mathematical structures that are fundamentally discrete rather than continuous.

>>1241890
I've done basic math, plus calculus and differential equations. I've seen vectors in physics, but that's about it...nothing about matrices or eigenvectors and shit. Couldn't tell you what an equivalence relationship is.

>>1241903
>Linear algebra is the field of finite dimensional vectorspaces. You learn to solve linear systems of equations
Damnit I don't understand any of those words. I'll have a look at wikipedia, maybe. The discrete mathematics class I just finished covered combinatorics, boolean algebra, number bases, algorithms, graph theory including FSA, recurrence relations and big O. There was a lot of interesting stuff in there.

>>1241886
is a pretty standard book known for thoroughness

What does linear algebra have to do with foundational math?

>>1241912
Ic, your problem, you dont know basic math. Like the symbols and ideas, that are common to all branches of math. They usually teach all that stuff in a class called "foundations of math" or somthing like that. You need to take that if you want to understand linear algebra, or any "proff" related math course.

An equivalence relation is travsitive, reflexive and symmetrical. But you probably dont understand what those mean anyway. Serioulsy, go find a good "foundations" book!

How important is mastery of all topics that fall under discrete mathematics to becoming an ace coder? Could any /sci/er illustrate why a specific discrete math skillset might be important in coding a certain corresponding program?

>>1241913
introductory linear algebra = vectors and matrices

>>1241928
>foundational math

You mean "foundations of math"? "Foundations" teaches you all the symbols and basic concepts that they use in all real math courses.

>>1241933
If its the dumbed down version maybe.
If you are talking the linear algebra for maths or physics, it get alot more complicated.

>>1241930

Does calculus come before or after "foundational math"?

OP: so the recommendation is, find a book on the foundations of math, then read one of the two textbooks given below? Or can I just have this book handy for when I need it?

>>1241946
I think you can read Lay without any 'foundations'.

>>1241946
Well, if you want to do more math, you should defintly read the foundations book.

If you just plan of doing linear algebra, then you can probably just use it as a reference, to look up basic math symobls and ideas and shit. Good Luck!

>>1241932
algorithms and counting are important for analyzing computational time for a script, at the most basic level this can be seen in the various sorting algorithms.

>>1241959
Alright, I think I'll wait for a thorough study of foundational stuff for university. Thanks a bunch!

>>1241962

I don't see the connection between a sorting algorithm and math though. I do have a vague recollection of a "binary tree" which if I remember correctly was used to index items in one of my projects in a 2nd semester programming course.

So this binary tree concept was actually math?

>>1241942
>>1241942

LMAO. Calculus is not "real" math. It is just applied math. Real math usually involves proffs and some intellegence. Cal is just plug and chug (any dumbass can do that, ie eniginners (faggots)).

A math major usually takes foundations first, so they can move on to more real math courses. Cal can be taken whenever. Cal is derived from more adavnced math, Analysis. For those real math courses you definitly need foundations.

>>1241972
everything you do in computer science (other than programming) is computational mathematics

you'd be surprised just how many computer algorithms were developed and proven before the first computer was even built. the turing machine was a concept in research papers before the first computer was built.

>>1241985
>Calculus is not "real" math. It is just applied math. Real math usually involves proffs and some intellegence. Cal is just plug and chug (any dumbass can do that, ie eniginners (faggots)).
>I've never taken differential geometry or anything related to manifolds, I don't know what I'm talking about in relation to calculus
FTFY

>>1241972
Yeah, that comes from a kinda math called "type theory".

>>1241985

So wait a sec, I took arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trig and then two years of calc in HS. You're telling me that none of this was FOUNDATIONAL?

>>1241989

Uhmm what exactly do people do in Computer Science besides programming? Flowcharting?

Ok I'll take a couple of honest guesses--designing algorithms for datamanipulation relating to the task that their program will tackle.

....my mind is a blank....can not guess moar...

try downloading the video lectures of Gilbert Strang..They're pretty good..

>>1241994

Does "type theory" fall under discrete mathematics or is it part of another branch of math?

And which branch of math does set theory fall under if it even falls under math? I'm curious about that one I really enjoyed set theory "theorems" in HS.

>>1241863
When I did linear algebra, my course's recommended textbook was Elementary Linear Algebra 9th edition, Anton Rorres.
tbh I didn't find it at all helpful and learnt most stuff from course notes and searching the net for individual math terms/comcepts

>>1241998
maybe pre-foundational...

>>1241995

I smell a faggot (an engineer)
I have taken diff geo. And your still a dumbshit.
Cal is still not real math, at least the basic shit they teach in Cal 1-4. NOW GTFO!

>>1241942
Calculus should be seen as somewhat separate from other early math classes, it has a relatively complicated background which is subdued because of it's importance and usefulness to other majors. Those pursuing a mathematics major will be reintroduced to it "properly" at a later time.

>>1242026
Did you just pass your first abstract algebra class? Stop being such an elitist cunt.

>>1242043
Nope, I finished my math degree a while ago.
Im just speaking the truth, Cal 1-4 are not considered "real" math courses, by the mathematics communiuty. Neither is anything without proffs.

Cals they teach yall are just Plug and chug shit, baby shit, that requires no advanced reasoning at all. Any dumbass faggot (engineer) can do "trained" to do cals.

>>1242077

And can any moron with the same wiring sail through linear algebra or do things get significantly different in that course?

>>1242091
>>1242091
I know my english is bad, but your is fucking terrible. Are you asking a question? making a statment?

>>1242091
In a real linear algebra course, things get very different. It is all proffs. You need to be good at foundations, logic, and have some intellegence. No more plug and chug bullshit faggotry (engineering)!

>>1242134
AGREED

>>1242134
agreed..

>>1242134
That 'tard on here bitching calculus is full of shit, possibly because he's invested a lot of time in learning fairly useless pure maths that doesn't help him get a real job outside of a university (engineer) or possibly because he's a troll.

You can claim that as calculus comes from analysis it is therefore an inferior discipline, but that's a silly argument isn't it; are plasma screen TVs inferior to cathode ray tubes? What enables us to design aeroplane wings; vector calculus and rigorous testing, or nerding it up playing around with the Goldbach conjecture in the grad student computer room?

Dumbass.

>>1242192
Saying theoretical results aren't important unless they have visible application is almost as stupid saying calculus isn't real math.

>>1242192
Butt hurt engineer. Was baby math (Cal) too hard for you. LMAO!

Hang in there little engineer (faggot), maybe one day you will be smart enough to do real math.

>>1242192
JUST BECUASE OF THIS FAGGOT (ENGINEER), THIS IS NOW AN ENGINEERING THREAD!

PRIDE!

>>1242192
i'm with ya bro. Cal is hard, like my cock in a dat mans ass

pride!

>>1242192
I engineer
I do math
1 man + 1 man = fun times

>>1242216
No, you're the one who started slagging engineering. And you're the one that's stupid. That's my point.

I'm not saying pure maths is stupid; I never wrote that. Read the post again. Pure maths is a discipline that requires large commitment and gets huge respect from me. Research for the sake of research in science has got us incredible innovations like the laser; although it's hard to see what the Bose-Einstein condensate will get us...

I recognise the value of obscure pure maths, while also appreciating the massive strides humanity has made by applying numbers to our world. You, by contrast, are a dumbass who appears to be bitter about something.

I'm going now because arguing with a retard calling other people stupid, such as yourself, is pointless.

Have a great time trying to pick up on something I've said and twisting the words to convince yourself you have a point once I've gone.

I'll say it again: dumbass.

engineering time nao?

>>1242114

It's a genuine question spiced with a dash of sarcasm which might confuse the reader. I'm asking if linear algebra is the "plug and play" type of math that engineerfags can do or whether linear algebra is something which requires a lot more abstract thought and perhaps creativity as opposed to a lowly branch of math such as calculus.

>>1242255
Ok, I get your question now. No, linear algebra isn't plug and chug. Real Linear algebra is Proofs and requires some real thinking.

>>1242255
it's usually separated into two classes, one plug-n-play and one theoretical.

introductory linear algebra is the plug-n-play one with emphasis on matrices, change of basis, solving linear systems of equations, eigen vectors, etc.

>>1242255
>linear algebra is something which requires a lot more abstract thought and perhaps creativity as opposed to a lowly branch of math such as calculus.


Yeah, you summed it up pretty good yourself

>>1242282
>introductory linear algebra is the plug-n-play one

LMAO, no, you are confusing "linear algebra" with "matrix algebra".

Although its is an incorret use of the term, many places call a "matrix algebra" class "linear algebra".

Either way a real linear algebra class always has proofs and isnt plub and chug, anything else if just "matrix algebra" that faggots (engineers) take.

>>1242273
>>1242282
>>1242285

And the real question once again, *drumroll*, will going through a linear algebra college level class make someone into a more l33t programmer? Does stellar success in this course identify a student who is expected to grow into an above average programmer and does failure in this class or a distaste for it's subject matter point towards someone who will suck at coding?

Any correlations here or not really?

>>1242282
>introductory linear algebra

No, you are talking about matrix algebra

>>1241876
I'm told this book is good as well, partially because it doesn't treat determinants as magic voodoo, like some other books do. I used Linear Algebra and its Applications by Lay myself, and it was a decent book for learning methods and stuff, but it didn't really provide much motivation for its definitions and all that.

>>1242310
I would say there is a strong positive correlation.
There are actually alot of real math courses that are good for programmers. Most programming ideas stem from mathematics.

>>1242253
Wow, nigga, why would I read a long-ass post by an engineer? Who do you think I am, a faggot (engineer)? Take your butt-hurt elsewhere!

>>1241897
I'll vote Lays, it was a good intro for me
(engineering)

>>1242352
dude, why would anyone care about your sexual preferences? there is no need to even mention engineering.

>>1242322

Awesome! I've dabbled a little bit in programming in the "real world" but this would just be silly little PHP snippets. I'm wondering now what sort of projects would "mathematically trained programmers" -if that's even a valid description of a coder- be tackling where they use their abstract math skillsets?

Say I wanted to write a proggy that matches winrar/winzip in functionality...I presume most of the concepts behind the algorithms would be courtesy of the cereberal muscle I built plodding through abstract math classes?

Any other types of typical and common projects that a programmer in the working world tackles that draw heavily on higher math?

Ok so there is a linear algebra evidently that is the same as matrix algebra and then there is a linear algebra that is completely removed from matrix algebra? I iz confuzd!

>PHD in math
>Any job I want
>300k starting
>Any chick I want
>Laugh at engineers and MBAs

>>1244805
No, linear algebra is a huge branch of math. One of the things it covers is matrix algebra.

Linear algebra >>>> Matrix Algebra

Matrix Algebra is plug-and-chug baby shit (engineering -Tier)

Linear Algebra is real math, that requires proofs and critical thinking skills

Think of it like this
Linear Algebra = Fruits
Matrix Alegbra = Oranges

Matrix Algebra is a specific type of Linear Algebra.

You can take a class called "fruits", and maybe they will teach you all about "fruits", or maybe they will be faggs and just talk about "oranges" the whole semester....LOL.

>>1247731

>>1247798

Why then do electrical engineers, chemical engineers and even mechanical engineers get paid more than CompSci programmer fags?

>>1247825

>He thinks a BS in EE will get more starting than a PhD in Math
>He thinks going from a BS to an MS in engineering corresponds to a massive increase in starting pay

>>1247825
cuz you don't need to learn linear algebra to be a code monkey

>>1241863
I recommend Calculus Vol II by Apostol.

Very good book. Rigorous, but not so mathy as to be unapproachable.

I am a computer engineer and I took Linear Algebra as part of my CS curriculum.

Feels good man.

Oh wait I hated that class nevermind

Nobody mentioned Linear Algebra and its Applications by Gilbert Strang?

It's probably the easiest to read lin alg book I've used, and it manages to do that without sacrificing rigor. Not sure if it's available as a torrent, but India editions are pretty cheap and are identical to actual editions but the problems at the end of each chapter are shuffled.

Lineal Algebra, Hoffman

>>1241932
> Could any /sci/er illustrate why a specific discrete math skillset might be important in coding a certain corresponding program?

Linear algebra is fundamental to computational geometry, e.g. 2D/3D graphics and modelling. For the basic stuff, you don't need much more than matrix multiplication, dot/cross products, etc. More complex tasks require eigenmethods etc. Discrete linear algebra also comes up in coding theory (error correction etc, not cryptography).

Formal grammars (regular, context-free, context-sensitive) are fundamental to parsing. Combinatorics are useful for counting (e.g. figuring out the time complexity for complex algorithms).

>>1241859

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>>1248083

Can you name any common every day software which was produced using these skillsets?

Not OP, but I'm going into college next year, planning on eventually doing Quantum Physics. Can anyone point me to a good textbook on "Foundational Math" so I can actually have a better understanding of how the math actually works.

Also, I have never taken Calculus before, and I was planning on taking it next year. However, I'm sure I could learn most of it over the summer, if so, should I just skip it and take Linear Algebra (probably dealing mostly with Matrices)?

If not, what maths would you advise me taking?

>>1248128
www.khanacademy.com

www.ocw.mit.edu

>>1248152

Heh. To be honest I'm already using both of those sites. Thank you though.

Just asking for what math course I should take in college, if it's a good idea to skip calculus. I'm going to be taking physics first year, and I'm assuming it will use simple calculus, so it might be better for me to take the actual course. However, I'm confident I could learn a least simple calculus over the summer, so what other Physics-related math class should I take?

>>1248105

Every 3d video game in existence.

future computer engineer here. First year, already having analysis and algebra. Shit is not cash, but whatever, gonna have to sit through that. Damn it.

Are you from Germany, OP?

>>1248152

yeah khanacademy on youtube got me a fucking A for my linear algebra. The only part of that class that is somewhat difficult is that span and subspace stuff

>>1248216

Anything non-graphics/3d related though? How about winrar/winzip and smartpar/quickpar? Or any others if not those and even if?

>>1248128
>>1248128
A transition to advanced mathematics by
Douglas Smith, Maurice Eggen, Richard St. Andre

Has anyone here written a program not related to graphics which utilizes higher math?

>>1248614

Thank you very much, I will definitely read that over the summer.

Has anyone here written a program not related to graphics which utilizes higher math, perhaps a project where you used compression or parity error correction of sorts?

So, last fall I have started studying physics at uni. First year here cover calculus, diff equations and linear algebra. I haven't visited a single lecture (did some serious business aside) and failed all of my exams. Wat to read in summer? Please gimme an advice.

>>1249846

Your textbooks again?

>>1249846
This describes me. Am I fucked for grad school? I heard that most universities don't look at first year grades...

>>1249866
There was only one textbook on cal, but it is 1500 pages thick. Can't carry such weight to Matla or Bahamas.
And the language is too formal. Actually, I need a full introduction to MAT111.

>>1249869
Lucky me, I did not even attend on 4/6 exams. The ones I failed was philosophy and an introduction to engineering.