/sci/ - Science & Math

Uh yeah. What's your point?

So can we move on from this retarded pandemic now?

>>12402987
wait, will that make your immune cells attack your own cells?

>>12403220
Not really. It basically trains the immune cells to be on the lookout for the virus in the future.

>>12402987
Between 1500 and 6000 people out of the 15000 vaccinated got severe side effects from the vaccine.
Moderate and light side effects might be as high as 100% of the vaccinated because it haven't been reported yet.
The risk of side effects from the vaccine is larger in young people, that is, the people least at risk from COVID is at greatest risk for significant adverse vaccine events.

More to follow on this shitshow as more data is revealed.

>>12403327
>Source: trust me bro

>>12403220
it'd make it attack cells that are actively producing the viral spike antigen. but that's a good thing.

>>12403304
But how? To me it seems the muscle cells will expose the spikes on their surface to be attacked by the immune system, which will then get rid of them.
I can't gain muscle anyway, so this will destroy even more muscle, right?

>>12403220
The fat bubble is a snitch, the RNA is a message that say "hey nigga, those covid niggas ain''t no good man, they be fucking around the hood, they say they gonna fuck you up, shoot them in tha ass". Then the immune cells say "damn they fucking covid niggas, I gonna be shooting they nigga asses". Then a big thug war begins.

>>12403330
>I don't read official sources
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/modernas-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-meets-its-primary-efficacy

>>12403352
Yes, but you don't mind looking like coomer right?
Take the vacc!

>>12402987
It's 100% safe! Even though nothing lost this has ever been accomplished this fast in history, it's all good. We don't need years of study and testing to ensure safety. Just let let us inject you!

I am thankful that many of you are dumb as shit as it makes me money, but this should be setting off alarms in ALL of your heads as not scientifically sound

Everyone...

It prevents the virus.

Because we are giving them the virus....

The placebo group didn't get a virus.

The real groups was infected. 100% of the test group was infected. 94.5% had no symptoms.

That means 5% are liable to become severely infected.

Which is 350million. The mortality rate of covid. Is 2-3% of current infected.

You 100% infect the population then. 2-3% might die. Maybe more honesty. The current infected is 62million. Which still isn't 1% of the population.

You are using a test group of 30k
15k is infected 15k are not infected.
70million is 1%. 7million .1%
700k .01% 70k .001% 35k .0005%
17.5k=.00025%

Even in your small sample size. You aren't curving the 2-3%.
Willing to risk hundreds of millions people's lives. So these people can pat themselves on the back. "Bro we prevented so much death" that death toll will be above the 40million of avian flu and spanish flu combined.

They both had 40million. The Jews had 11million. That's 91million.

If you infect everyone. Thats 140million-210millon people that might die and that seems to be low balling it. Because no ideal what it will be like if 100%of people are infected.

At what point is it considered genocide?

People: conspiracy theorist believe covid and evil governments are behind global disease and are trying to spread them

Reality: "some one got sick! Hurry up we have to infect our selves to get heard immunity." *someone rubs face on sick person* " you fool that is so dumb we need to extract the virus first and weaken it. Then shoot ourselves up with needles. Get some class"

>>12403327
There we go again with this garbage misinformation. The "severe" side effects you're talking about are headache and fatigue, which is standard in clinical trials to be reported at high levels, even in the placebo group. None of these listed side effects reached grade 4, and none have the designation "serious", which would be the case if they inhibit functioning of the participant.

You're fear mongering, and are uninformed.

>>12403435
Don't be a dumbass. The vaccine doesn't infect you with the virus. All it does is makes your body produce some proteins that the virus also produces. This does not mean the vaccine group "gets infected".

>>12403352
The spike proteins will be released from the cell.

>>12403435
are you literally retarded?

>>12403220

No and yes. Because it won't have such a strong expression, the RNAm will simply be degraded in a short while but
>The antibodies circulating in your blood will recognize the spike proteins and that cell will be attacked yes, but it will be processed and the epitope of the spike proteins will be presented to T cells(I'm writing from memory for something that I learnt 4 years ago, sorry if it's the other way around)
>The spike proteins, while being synthetised, will follow a diffrent path and will be destroyed by the proteasome 20s, which is basically a giant blender inside the cell, and then it will be presented in the HLA complex to inmunitary cells.

As stated, I studied this a quite while ago(and wouldn't mind in being corrected) but I'm pretty sure that, in the overall idea, I'm right. The cells will be attacked but it won't matter because RNAm will simply be destroyed(and no it cannot integrate with DNA or turn into a prion. The former requires some weird twisting to do DNA-RNA hybrids and the latter requires a magical evolutive process out of nowhere).

>>12403436
> Grade 3 events are serious and interfere with a person’s ability to do basic things like eat or get dressed. Grade 3 events may also require medical intervention. Grade 4 events are usually severe enough to require hospitalization. Grade 5 events are fatal.

According to Moderna themself.
> Grade 3 (severe) events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first dose included injection site pain (2.7%), and after the second dose included fatigue (9.7%), myalgia (8.9%), arthralgia (5.2%), headache (4.5%), pain (4.1%) and erythema/redness at the injection site (2.0%).

>>12403356
that's fax

>>12403466
>>12403458

Aaaand forget it. It seems like the vaccine will follow the proteasome route and simply present the antigens through exocitosis and somehow I mixed the HLA complex because yes.

Further proof that knowledge has to be refreshed from time to time or this shit happens.

>>12403368
>The interim analysis included a concurrent review of the available Phase 3 COVE study safety data by the DSMB, which did not report any significant safety concerns. A review of solicited adverse events indicated that the vaccine was generally well tolerated. The majority of adverse events were mild or moderate in severity. Grade 3 (severe) events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first dose included injection site pain (2.7%), and after the second dose included fatigue (9.7%), myalgia (8.9%), arthralgia (5.2%), headache (4.5%), pain (4.1%) and erythema/redness at the injection site (2.0%). These solicited adverse events were generally short-lived. These data are subject to change based on ongoing analysis of further Phase 3 COVE study data and final analysis.
Oh nooooo he's afraid of a little headache. poor baby... it's going to be ok awwwwwwww

>>12403436

So the vaccine is 100% safe.

Doctors also say the inactivated vaccines have zero chance of giving people the flu.
Some report soreness fatigue. Which yeah could be in their head.

But some report fevers. And most people in my whole life register 101. As fever. And the CDC says 100.4 is considered a fever.

Most people I know only have the flu for a few days. I know less then ten people who get sick for a week.

So people getting a fever for a couple of days after the vaccine shot. Are delusional patients who believe they have the flu. And mentally conjured a fever.

Ignore the data and believe what is told.

I do not believe vaccines are pointless. I just don't think people prone to sickness. Or over worked exhausted people should get vaccines. Over worked and exhausted people have shit immune systems until they get rest.

>>12403489
>Grade 3 events are serious and interfere with a person’s ability to do basic things like eat or get dressed. Grade 3 events may also require medical intervention
None of the listed side effects are even close to any of that.

>>12403489
Grade 3 sounds like a bad hangover, are you some sort of pussy anon?

>>12403498
Again, stop being a dubmass. You're claiming the vaccine has the same effects as the virus, which is beyond stupid.

>>12403498
based esl schizo poster

>>12403489
>quoting random site without looking up the proper designations
Don't be a shithead and do your homework.

>>12403493
>>12403466
I've tried to find out if it will be expressed on the surface of the muscle cells or simply be translated and released. Stole the pic from link related.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7218962/

>>12403466
>The cells will be attacked but it won't matter
Skeletal muscle don't regenerate, a strong immune response or negative reaction internally in the cells that mRNA enter could lead to a permanent loss of muscle strength. Considering the very high percentage of severe myalgia as a side effect to the vaccine could be suggestive of muscle damage.

>>12403499
>Grade 3 events are not grade 3 events because I say so
Okay bro. Enjoy your grade 3 events.

>>12403511
Is it secreted through necrosis or apoptosis of the producing myocyte or what mechanisms are really involved?
Is it degraded internally in the muscle cell and then presented by the MHC? If so, will the immune system not flag the muscle cells as subverted viral factories and target them for destruction?

>>12403526
>myalgia as a side effect to the vaccine could be suggestive of muscle damage.
Not at all. The side effects imitates a viral infections, as one would expect.

>>12403536
2% chance i get a widdle headache, I think I'll be fine because I'm not a complete vagina

>>12403526
>very high percentage of severe myalgia
>very high
bullshit, this is about the same level as you get after conventional vaccine injection or saline injection, retard. have a look at the numbers in the stage I/II trial of the AZ-oxoford vaccine (non-mRNA based).

>>12403555
>this is about the same level as you get after conventional vaccine injection or saline injection
As a healthcare worker I've had a lot of vaccinations and I've never had a grade 3 side effect, what you're doing is dishonest misrepresentation of severe side effects. Are you a paid pharma shill or simply clueless? I don't really see any other options

>>12403547
I honestly don't know and I don't have time to do a deep dive right now. Been a while since I've read cell bio/immunology as well.

>>12403561
>As a healthcare worker
So am I shitheel. I'm dispelling misinformation, because that's what you're doing. Pic related. Its ratings from the AZ-Oxford vaccine, which isn't mRNA based. This is standard stuff, and if you wouldn't be a fucking retard you'd know you can't infer shit like that from personal experience. What matters is the data, and you're willfully misrepresenting it. And if you'd be used to looking at data at all, you'd know this stuff is standard for many kinds of treatments.

>>12403561
>n=1
Go away.

>>12402987
The government wants you dead, good enough reason to not take the vaccine. They will have to use the old Fentanyl crop duster and risk survivor wrath

>>12403573
>Another rushed covid vaccine that actually shows lower rates of adverse effects means that the moderna vaccine is perfectly safe and grade 3 events aren't actually grade 3 events even though moderna says they are grade 3 events.

>>12403547
Fantastic questions that I've not seen answered anywhere.

>>12403628
I've shown you that conventional vaccines come with side effects in similar proportions. If you'd look at the actual paper, you'd notice substantial reported side effects in the PLACEBO condition, you dumb cunt.

>lower rates of adverse effects
Except it doesn't, you fucking moron.

Are you retarded? Or just arguing in bad faith? I'm guessing probably both.

>>12403561
>As a healthcare worker
janitor in a hospital?

>>12402987
Has there ever been an mRNA vaccine before? Something that was widely distributed?

If I was a billion dollar pharmaceutical company, I would absolutely take advantage of a emergency use permit to shove through new tech. That’s a decade of work I don’t have to do anymore.

>>12403669
>conventional vaccine
>using as a vector the modified chimpanzee adenovirus ChAdOx1.[1][2][3][4]

The only thing you've showed me is that you're willing to lie about literally anything in order to whiteknight for big pharma.

>Adenovirus vector vaccines are conventional!
>Grade 3 events are actually grade 1 events because I say so!

>>12403526

Even if you were to be right, that RNAm is not self replicating, so not many cells would die anyway and the effect would be negligible. But the message would be delivered anyway.

>>12403685
It's a first. And as the brainlet population seems perfectly willing to eat shit to the cheers of political figures as long as it's called a vaccine it's a perfect opportunity to do human experiments with waived responsibility while also getting paid handsomely for it.

Thankfully I'm so low priority on the vaccination list that by the time there's spare vaccines available for my demographic slice I can either point to dropping infection numbers or the numerous side effects as a valid reason for abstaining

>>12403712
>refuses the look at the evidence
The placebo is a conventional vaccine you goddam mongol.

> you're willing to lie
The fucking irony, this coming from a guy who claims to be a healthcare worker but doesn't have a fucking clue what he's talking about.

>>Grade 3 events are actually grade 1 events because I say so!
I never said grade 3 events are grade 1 events you disingenuous cunt. I'm saying grade 3 headaches aren't even migraine headaces, and do not pose a risk to the patents' health. You're obviously out of your depth here, because you literally had to google the definition of clinical designations, completely overlooking the fact that the symptomatically itself comes with its own designation prior to severity grades. A type 2 heart attack is a serious problem. A fucking grade 3 headache is not.

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606&tab=PCTBIBLIO

Important

>>12403769
What does this have to do with a vaccine?

>>12403762
>A type 2 heart attack is a serious problem. A fucking grade 3 headache is not.
You're comparing apples to oranges you fucking retard, why don't you start putting type 1 diabetes into it too and pretend it's a grade 1 event because there's a 1 in it.

My point stands, you don't care about twisting the truth, you outright lie, you make up the most bullshit argument out of thin air and string it into a sentence like a mindless chatbot. Your healthcare role cannot be anything above designated diaper changer because then you'd be embarassed about how retarded your arguments are.

>>12403783
Look up "luciferase". If you can't connect the dots, then disregard my posts.

>>12403368
not clicking on that, there is probably virus there. do you have a more reputable source?

>>12403435
take your meds, schizo

>>12402987
I don't care. I'm not taking this vaccine and I will defend myself against anyone who tries to force me to do so, with lethal force if necessary. I have been waiting for this moment for a long time. I have several guns which I know how to use, stockpiles of ammo, and months worth of reserve food. I know how to kickbox and am in great physical shape. If this vaccine truly does become "mandatory" then it will be the end of my time in society and, if necessary, the mortal realm. I would rather die a free man than a slave. I suggest all of my fellow men to have the same mindset.

>>12402987
>getting a vaccine as an adult
LMAO. I hope you guys aren't serious

I'm not getting this just to spite "le science!!" R8dditers lol.

>>12402987
That's good. Then those afraid of this meme virus can get vaccinated so I don't have to.
in b4
>you hAvE tO taKe the vaCciNe tO pRoTeCt OtHeRs, jUsT lIkE MaSkS
Then put on your mask and take another dose of the vaccine for me then, to protect me.
My body, my choice.

>>12403561
>As a healthcare worker
Didn't read the rest

>>12403820
not the guy you're replying to but you ignored the placebo part and sound like an autistic spaz

I see the “Vaccine Wrongthink” brigade is in this thread. I’m waiting a year. You fucks take it and let me know.

>>12403547
>>12403570
>>12403645
This is also one of my concerns, but it would be irrelevant if only non-skeletal muscles get the mRNA, right? Because those can be reproduced and the immune system only targets the spikes, not the cells themselves.

>>12404052
Not sure if a year is long enough desu. Maybe pay attention to how it effects the young and decide on that. Maybe if babies seem to handle it for five years with no problems.
I don't really understand why so many knobgobblers are obsessed with the vaccines. They don't understand that governments are going to push them through even if they aren't effective in the slightest. Just like masks.
Next, I wouldn't even buy playstations first generation, you think I am going to be a lab rat for billioncorp? All of the scientists here know exactly what happens to lab rats.

>>12403489
>vaccine people
>people show completely normap signs of an immune response
>how could this happen
these retards

>>12404092
Considering it's an intramusuclar injection they'll end up mostly deposited in that local muscle. Hopefully, because I'd rather lose peripheral myocytes than cardiac ones.

>>12403915
No one is forcing you, you autistic shitlord

>>12404215
>being this naive

>>12404240
Name 1 (one) western country with mandatory vaccinations for covid

>>12404285
There's no vaccine out yet so of course they can't make it mandatory yet. Once people start refusing due to awful side effects they'll start adding and enforcing vaccine passports

>>12404457
In other words, your paranoia has no basis in reality.

>>12404457
So what you're saying is that no one is forcing you? Glad we agree.

>>12404478
>no basis in reality.
Yeah lmao, who would think of vaccine passports, just type it into google and see how you get 20 million hits from all over the world, including political leadership. Pure paranoia

>>12404498
I know what a vaccine passport is retard. It doesn't imply forced vaccination.

>>12404457
>side effects
lol what's the worst that could happen, you clearly already have autism

>>12403500
>are you some sort of pussy anon?
Yes, yes I am!