/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12397301
>glowing rocket engine bell

>>12397301
First for rockets

>>12397307
>>12397308
Oh the shame.

I like nuclear jank. How do I into space?

>>12397295

Tom Cruise and a movie director are going to be launched next year in October/November to film a movie aboard the ISS.

>pretending I hate space and "we should be giving money to black people instead"

>>12397315
>fuck niggers lol

>>12397327

Did Starship launch yet?

>>12397307
is that Yarrick?

>tfw no saturn derived shuttle

>>12397346
nope
people are saying it might be sometime this week, they didn't blow up anything last 3-engine static fire that I've seen on the news so fingers crossed

Why don’t most rockets have fins? I usually had them to my rockets in KSP. Seems to help somehow

>>12397395
>>12397346
>people are already driving down to Boca Chica.
they should really know by now that SpaceX's schedules change on a dime. They shouldn't go until the NOTAM is in place

>>12397398
idk

>>12397398
Most rockets naturally have their center of pressure behind their center of mass. Attitude control can be provided by engine gimballing.

>>12397398
Fins are like rocket training wheels. Only baby rockets need fins. Fully grown rockets don't need them.

>>12397301
it almost looks like a liquid.
https://youtu.be/P3-tgfJiNfQ

>>12397301
Anyone have some good resources on engine design?
I'm going to cast an engine out of copper, and I'm trying to figure out if i should make the regen cooling channels internal, or if I should have them exposed like in pic related and just use an external liner liner.

Also, any recommendations for cfd programs? I'm probably gonna end up using openFoam, but its gonna be a pain in the ass to have to switch to linux whenever I want to test.

>>12397413
Liquid oxygen and liquid methane - almost looks like a liquid? Oh my

Fuck I wish I was a neet so I could just camp in the bush somewhere at boca and spend all day cracking beers and watching shit through some binoculars.

>>12397453
I love laying on a good bush

>>12397427
Are you brain damaged

>>12397453
I hope you have good mosquito netting lol

>>12397453
/sfg/ boca chica hobo camp when

>>12397424
This http://risacher.org/rocket/ has some basics. As for regen cooling, if this is your first engine, then forgoing that might make the project easier for you. Just make the engine tanky enough to handle the heat until you can get the basics worked out, then use that experience to make a better engine.
>Also, any recommendations for cfd programs?
Ansys works well. Although I suggest writing a basic code model the regen first. That way you can narrow down the general sizing requirements using a less resource intensive program before using the larger cfd program. I also suggest looking into film cooling. The math for it is simpler and can help reduce the load on regen cooling.

>>12397467
What’s the products of that combustion anyway

>>12397477
co2 and water

>>12397482
THOSE ARE GREENHOUSE GASSES CANCEL SPACE NOWWEEEE1111

>>12397487
Methane is 10x as potent a greenhouse gas so it's actually a net reduction in warming burning it off.

>>12397487
>he thinks normies aren't just waging a war on soot
anon.......

>>12397424
I've not read them myself but maybe it's a starting point

>>12397476
my metallurgy is limited to lower melting point metals, so I figured regen would allow me to copper for the chamber and nozzle.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have access to ansys through my college, and I sure as fuck can't afford it on my own. Maybe after I graduate.

You're definitely right about forgoing regen on a first model to maximize simplicity. What I need is a moldable refractory/ablative material that could handle the pressures and temps of the combustion chamber.

How can stock ever compete?

>>12397578
By not requiring 2 hours and a blood sacrifice to load

>>12397514
There’s a free student version of Ansys (no email required) but it’s gimped with size constraints. Otherwise there’s prbobably a crack or something somewhere

>Road closures still on
>Still no NOTAM issued
Whats the endgame?

>>12397514
>moldable refractory/ablative material
talking out of my ass here but have you considered Cerakote? It's basically a spray-on ceramic coating that you cure in an oven and it's supposed to be hard and durable with good temperature resistance. You could probably make your thing out of copper then line the inside with Cerakote. They make several grades that are optimized for different things (wear, corrosion, temperature, etc) so you'd probably pick whichever has the highest temperature performance.

>>12397470
This.

>>12397514
You can try film cooling along with a thick walled combustion chamber as a test piece. I tried to design an injector system that's a pintle injector inside a large swirl injector which makes the film for cooling. That may be useful to you?

>there is an alternate Earth where NASA have a whole fleet of these

>>12397820
No there isn't
Venture star could never have worked

>>12397824
This, it was doomed from the start.

>>12397824
>>12397829
Lies and slander.

>>12397470
Freshly minted NEET with strong outdoors background here. Seriously considering it, reckon with a bit of learning on recording equipment I can put a better stream together than these retarded boomers and make a bit of cash off my tank watching.

>>12397843
It was a paper rocket that would have had to hit extremely optimistic mass ratio and propulsive performance targets in order to even be orbit capable, and the X-33 development program proved that the technology was going to fall very short even of that.

h-hop soon, I promise

>>12397885
Stop advertising your gay YouTube channel

>>12397824
Not with this attitude.

>>12397824
The solution is simple: make Venture Star into a nuclear SSTO

>>12397885
SpaceX fans are just evolved venture star fags. They want to tell you the DC-X was going to work and that any project can attain any goal

liberty ship HEAVY

>>12397899
sounds complicated, probably more expensive per kg/$ than starship, and thats if there was a market for someone to put that much cargo in orbit, which there isnt

What is it, in your opinion, that separates an I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE fag from a genuine space flight enthusiast?

>>12397918
>hates government projects and NASA
>doesn't browse r*ddit

>>12397424

Which CAD program are you using to draft the engine parts? Have you considered running your CAD files through CFD or other types of relevant CAM simulations?

>>12397903
Not with that attitude they won’t

>>12397918
IFLS fags don't actually love science, they barely even know what science is and don't really care to. They wear NASA t-shirts and open their mouth REALLY wide when they see SLS because they are trying to signal to everyone around them that they are intelligent. The reality is that like most normies they are a vapid pseudo-intelligent husk who's interests and hobbies exist exclusively for social signaling.
A real enthusiast in any field loves their chosen subject for a reason, their chosen subject has some deep meaning to them which ignites their passion and drives them to do something in their lives.
You can easily tell these people apart by how they engage with the subject, a true enthusiast can discuss a subject with you for hours, and can be encouraged to the height of passionate expression in doing so. A poseur merely surrounds themselves with merchandise of the subject, they will have many shirts, toys, gimmicks and knicknacks but their understanding and ability to engage with the subject will be puddle deep at best.

>>12397918
Hard to say because the I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE caricature is so broad, but a serious spaceflight enthusiast would have a desire to learn more about spaceflight, or at least would have grievances about SLS.

>>12397912
Agreed. If we had nuclear lightbulb engines we would use them on TSTO launchers that had a chemical first stage anyway. SSTO never ever. In fact even if someone built an SSTO, their competitor would build a more economical TSTO using copycat technology and the SSTO would be abandoned as expensive and overly complex.

>>12397918
>I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE
Believes in science for science's sake
"Space is a wonderland for us to explore and study for the good of all"
Generally illiterate/clueless when it comes to space technology; is only capable of parroting extremely high level, overly simplified ruled of thumb in engineering as if they are concrete fundamental facts that dictate all aspects of design.
Is excited about SLS, JWST, and the Artemis program, and excuses all delays and cost overruns as inevitable due to the 'extreme' and 'difficult' nature of space flight.
Is proud of the ISS.

>genuine space flight enthusiast
Understands that if we study space and the objects in it without actually using that information to accomplish something, we may as well be sorting and categorizing the sand grains in Egypt.
"Space is a harsh environment unfathomably larger than Earth and full of an unfathomable amount of resources, and whoever manages to solve the problems of living and growing in space first will gain an insurmountable advantage over the puny civilizations of Earth"
Has a level of understanding of engineering and economics deep enough to understand that density impulse is more important than specific impulse for launch vehicles, SSTO is a scam, and that the future of space travel technology is simple (but not 'dumb') vehicles being mass produced.
Day ruined by thinking about the waste of time that is the SLS program, laughs at the JWST program (hopes it blows up during launch for the lols), and is bored by the Artemis program. Condemns all delays and cost overruns as inevitable due to the horrific bureaucracy and lack of enthusiasm/work ethic on the part of all oldspace contractors and NASA.
Thinks the ISS is an embarrassment who's only saving grace has been its involvement in getting commercial human launch options developed.

>>12397918
Ask them to name five (5) launch vehicles

>>12398095
>SLS
>Ares V
>Jupiter 244
>NLS
>Thiokol In-Line Shuttle

>>12398115
There's one, you have 4 more to go

>>12398032
>I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE SCIENCE
Hates TSTO because caveman tech
Likes SSTO because it looks cool
Wants his own flying saucer

>>12398118
>OmegA
>Ares I-X
>Liberty ATK
>SRB CEV
>Athena III

>>12397366
>XB-70+Saturn+Shuttle
>eats airplanes AND astronauts!

>>12398095
>falcon 9
>falcon 1
>delta iv
>delta iv heavy
>atlas rockets
>falcon heavy
>heckin space shuttlerino
>saturn v
>saturn ib
>assorted šoyuz rockets
>jupiter rockets
>starship
>the uss enterprise
>millennium falcon
>that tiny one rocketlab uses i think it's called electron?
>new glenn
>new shepherd
>the delta glider from orbiter
>the soviet N1 that sniped the "biggest fokkin rocket ever" badge away from saturn v
*spills shotglass full of fireball in your path*

>>12398152
>>the soviet N1
He said launch vehicles, not exploding towers.

JAXA launch in 1 hour
https://youtu.be/tPAXBKh9O4Y

>>12398152
>the soviet N1 that sniped the heads of their space program like no CIA operative would have ever dreamed of

>>12397918
The word "manned spaceflight" will trigger the first kind

>>12398175
channeru fuorou
!!

>>12397424
>cast an engine out of copper
If you think that i a proper process to do that you have no idea what you are doing go back to ashby materials book and introduction to statics and mechanics of material

Opinion: I think the blue Boeing spacesuit looks really cool.

>>12398221
Gay opinion. Although the SpaceX one looks pretty shit too outside of their selected photo ops.

>>12398175
T-10 minutes

>>12397927
Fusion360, Im more asking which CFD simulation software I can actually get and use without too much hassle. Fusion360 doesn't have an attached cfd sim, unless I'm literally retarded

>>12398221
Make way.

>>12398175
well that was neat :)

>>12398205
Haha, I did the pressure calcs and I have a safety factor of like 4. But, you're right, casts definitely have a ton less strength, hence why I was debating using a steel shroud around the outside, which would also seal the cooling channels. Ofc I'd have to make that on a lathe, semi defeating the purpose of casting.
The idea was to do a PLA investment cast with plaster, since that can give really smooth finishes. My only worry being the small margin between the melting point of copper and the failure temp of the plaster. ~300 deg F.

>>12398268
Me on the left

>>12398175
Liftoff!

>>12397301
>>12397413
Stoichiometric FFSC methalox exhaust is CO2+H2O. It's warm soda.

>>12398221
>>12398231
both boeing and spacex have garbage suits
nasa's orange suit puts the others to shame

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202011/26/WS5fbee72fa31024ad0ba967a7.html

>140 tons to LEO, 50 tons to Earth-Moon transfer trajectory
>10 meter fairing
>expendable
>first launch in 2030

your thoughts?

>>12398268
*blocks your path*

>>12398292
>expendable
>your thoughts?

Going into the trash where it belongs

>>12398292
>China space program has launched 0 Earth weather monitoring satellites

>>12397752
Oh shit, that sounds sweet. My only concern would be that I wouldn't get an even coat across the geometry, and this would lead to instabilities that could fuck up the engine. The throat being too small because of an uneven coat for example.

>>12398295
>trash
>not going into villages and culling millions of bugs at once with each stage separation

If we hadn't lost the fucking directions to pic related, would it still be a viable heavy lift option today? Assuming continuous updates and computer shit

>>12397785
Post some pics. I was reading up on pintle injectors, if i go that route I'll probably end up having to use a lathe. Nonetheless, this part of the engine is really worrying to me. It seems like injectors might actually be the most complicated part of the design.

>>12398309
Not nowadays. Falcon Heavy could lift the same payload at a fraction of the cost. Also the Saturn V has a second stage that can't do a static fire before launch to test its five engines. Needing two stacked stages to get to LEO is unreliable nowadays

>>12398301
Cerakote is often used to treat gun barrels and receivers so it'll probably stand up to heat and pressure pretty well, at least better than raw copper will.

t. /k/

>>12398309
No, Saturn V is fun nostalgia but it's honestly a pretty shit launch vehicle.

>>12398309
>assuming continuous updates

Like
>methalox engines
>cheap stainless steel body
>two stage to orbit
>flyback booster
>reusable upper stage

?

>>12398265

I too found Fusion360 much less intuitive than, say, Solidworks or Autodesk AutoCAD. That was several years ago, however, haven't touched it since so I'm not sure what it's like now.

I know that Solidworks has CFD add-ons, and its files can be transferred to ANSYS rather seamlessly.

>>12398309
>lost the fucking directions
Nobody lost the directions. There were never any directions.
We lost an entire generation of nasa employees to old age while government stooges purged nasa of ebil nazi scientists to please their masters.

>>12398332
Reusability is that important.
>Saturn V launches a moon mission
>at the end of the mission you have a wet Apollo capsule on Earth and whatever tiny ass payload you left behind plus the LEM legs on the moon
>Starship launches a moon mission
>the entire rocket is back on the pad and ready to go in a week

>>12398268
One of these things that Artemis actually did right.

Holy shit I started watching the Thunderf00t debate about phosphine and now he's saying he's "skeptical" we can even get spectral measurements from exoplanet atmosphers. And therefore he is skeptical we can get spectra from Venus. Phil, my god you retard, we've already DONE IT with Spitzer. What kind of debate is this?? Where are the astronomers?? Detecting multiple exoplanet spectra is a PRIMARY OBJECTIVE of multiple upcoming great observatories. Who is this fucker kidding?

I can concede that the phosphine reading on Venus is a nothingburger. What I can't abide is the method by with Thunderf00t manages to fumble his dumb ass to that conclusion. What a god damn absolute retard. He is completely out of his element

>>12398377
>Who is this fucker kidding?
his future paypigs

>>12398265
Ansys Fluent. The free edition(student/academic) let's you do 500k grid points. Use the pirated one for denser mesh.

>>12398377
>I can concede that the phosphine reading on Venus is a nothingburger

Wrong it proves there’s life there.

>>12398377
Yeah I hate this pathetic motherfucker beyond what words can describe.

>WAAAAAAHHH U R NOT SCIENTIST U JUST MAKE CLICKBAIT RELEASES I DEBOOOONKED U HAHAHA
>*literally only releases clickbait shit on the lowest hanging fruit available*

Hopefully Elon will just hire a hitman on the soiface cunt.

>>12398286
there's a lot of atomic hydrogen in there, as well as hydrocarbon radicals like CH and CH2, and don't forget carbon monoxide

>>12398403
I will wait for some probes before passing judgement. Seems like an incredibly hostile environment for life and I doubt we have a total knowledge of every single abiotic process that produces phosphine.

>>12398403
they overfitted the data, it's a nothingburger and not real

Climate science.

>>12397729
Bellyflop right into FAA headquarters.
"Regulate this!" Is written in big red letters on the belly.

>>12398340
nerva upper stage

>>12398377
>He is completely out of his element
And that is why you should stop watching Blunderf00t.

the 5cm/s vibe is insane

>>12398546
Have to say, I didn't really like 5cm/s desu. His other shit is so much better.

>The vehicle is in Max-Q, that is the moment of maximum aerodynamic pressure
An open question to rocket launch announcers: what is the point to having an abbreviation if immediately after saying it you explain what it stands for? I get that you have to let the newfriends know what it is every now and then, but do you have to say it every launch? Patiently awaiting your response.

>>12398560
Max-Q is a callout for the launch support network and they stick with the short name. The public launch material frequently listens in on the launch support loops, but explain it for the audience.

>>12397729
That engine skirt looks unreal

>>12397729
Probably because it's a copy-paste job.

Now we need a SC

>>12398541
>Finally leave your house for the first time in months
>See a rocket soaring above a picturesque landscape
>WOW, just like in my anime!

The absolute state of the animebrain. The damage is irreparable at this point.

>>12397918
I still like them.
No matter how naive they can be they are still a lot better of really dangerous idiots like novax and similar.

>>12398628

8 tons of Chink junk have entered lunar orbit.
They will need to make a second braking maneuver today because of meme 3kN engine that barely entered orbit after a 17 minutes burn.

Any of you guys got the skinny on the music scene in the lunar southern tunnels?
I hear it's mostly rock.

2021 is going to be an awesome year

>>12398628
Yeah, it's getting pretty bad. Just my opinion, I don't know about you, but I think pedophilia should be one of those things we don't post. I appreciate your courage to call it out and shame it.

>>12398694
there won't be an entry burn for Super Heavy

>anime haters

>>12398702
That's an aspirational goal. I fully expect the first few flights to have it. Otherwise engines would be burnt to crisp.

>>12398706
no, engines will be fine, the problem is the structure itself, and stainless steel can handle it

>>12398710
Tell that to electron

>>12398697
absolutely and inexcusably reddit

>>12398753
the engines on electron were fine, they're not being reused because they've been dunked in salt water
the battery pack got toasted on electron though

Is Electron trying to do the exact same thing SpaceX tried and gave up on?

>>12397324
Oof, racist much?
You wanna walk that back?

>>12398781
they are succeeding at the exact same thing that SpaceX tried and gave up on, yes

>>12398781
SpaceX never went as far as with testing parachute landing of boosters. It's strictly inferior to retropropulsive but it should work.

>>12398697
oh my based!

>>12398377
Thunderf4g has no expertise or insight whatsoever. He's just selling a product to his viewers - prepackaged skepticism about literally anything.

>>12398377
he is the ultimate science nihilist who thinks the only real science is what he can do at home with his chemistry set. i loved his why people lough at creationists video but other than that he is personified cringe

>>12397492
I don't think they get it from the atmosphere anon

>>12398782
no
fuck niggers
equity is not equality
johnson pissed away the american future trying to make a "great society" out of one that was already great

>>12398825
Yup, I'm thinkin
>Racism outside of /b/

>>12398842

>>12398842
>guys please keep memes out of #general

>>12398853
Link to the tweet? Sounds cool

>>12398309
The whole reason the shuttle was introduced was because Saturn was considered too expensive to rely on moving forward. Just because the shuttle also failed to redress that problem doesn't mean it wasn't real. Saturn V for all it's impressive accomplishments is still a very dated rocket. But yes with updates it would at least be more viable than SLS.
Use eight F-1B engines instead of five F-1s with a conical SI similar to the N1, enlarge the SII instead of tapering it, you could use the J2-X now for the 2S or you could be smart and replace the SII with a LOX/CH4 stage running four vacuum Raptor engines, which weigh a ton less than the J2X and put out a meganewton more thrust, the SII's overall size could be reduced slightly without trading off it's delta-V or it could remain the same size and probably have increased delta-V due to increased propellant density. In fact with the small size of the Raptor engine you could probably introduce a further nozzle expansion and push it's ISP close to 400s.
Eliminate the S-IVB (You can just enlarge the SII) and simply pop on an expanded fairing, will probably get 150+ tons to LEO, the engines from both stages can be saved with SMART (because NASA would never be ambitious enough to outright build a reusable rocket, but they might be convinced to save the thrust structures at least).

This does two things, firstly using the F-1B and Raptor which are both designed for rapid manufacture and reduced cost in both money and man hours will substantially impact the overall cost of the vehicle, engines are (by weight) the most expensive component of a rocket. By saving and reusing the engines you further recoup your losses by not having to manufacture as many new engines. Imagine pic related but an even greater resemblance to N1, and two stages rather than four.

>>12398152

You had to look some of those up

>>12398871
The real reason the shuttle was introduced was because if they continued the rocket program, they were headed for Uranus.

>>12398757
>were fine
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure bro, suuuuuuuuuuure
Why do you think they cropped out the bottom part of the rocket from the images released?

dont reply to those people, just report and move ahead
Rules are very clear - No racism outside /b/

>>12398888
they werent cropped out

>>12398891
rules also dictate that under-ages aren't allowed to post, so leave

>>12398628
>run into image of Dream Chaser on Google
>WOW, it looks just like the Farscape shuttle
Americans are just birdbrains in general.

>>12398900
>run into concept image
>WOW, it looks just like a functional space program
The absolute state of eurobrain

>>12397824
It would have worked but it would have a tiny payload.

>>12398842
nigger

>>12398937
>>12398944
Red dragon was unambitious and had ambiguous goals at best, I never got invested in it. Glad they shelved it and moved on, desu it probably would have been for the best if they had done that with Falcon Heavy itself.

>>12397599
>has shit load times
HDD bro get yourself a SSD

>>12398343
Calm down comrade. They cant know yet.

>>12398294
Poor Gus

>>12398842
Its not racism. Its just an understanding of the biodiversity of the human race

>>12398953
>private mars landing
>unambitious

>>12398576
this is a good idea

>>12398877
only thing i looked up was the actual name of the n1 because my brain remembers it as "that big useless pile of commie horse shit that keeps me from making factually accurate grandiose statements about the apollo program being the pinnacle of mankind in nearly every facet"
everything else on that list is my autism
i was 5 shots into the fireball when i typed it out too

>>12398986
>private mars landing that doesn't meaningfully support their long term goals
Admittedly sure it would be ambitious by the standards of the rest of aerospace but that's to be expected when everyone else is ten years behind in rocketry

>>12399007
i'm just saying we have the vehicle and the tech to take us there or the moon now
I don't want to wait anymore comrade

>>12399025
Not to go all BO "slow and steady" but rushing without making long term gains in the process just delays meaningful advancement. Every minute of dev time and every dollar invested into red dragon (for example) would have been pretty much 1:1 right out of the time and budget eventually spent on Starship for far less return. Same reason I bitched about Falcon Heavy, it's a good rocket but it took a shitload of cash and dev time for something that barely launches.

>>12399040
BO will never launch New Glenn

>>12398095
>Ariane 1
>Ariane 2
>Ariane 3
>Ariane 4
>Ariane 5

>>12398893
Sure, send me picture of the rear end, I'm waiting. The crop was so fucking obvious dude.

>>12398963
Mine's got an SSD and it still takes 6-7 minutes to load.

>>12399088
You completely misread my point if you took that as actually supporting BO. Their approach is fucking worthless.

HOP UPDATE?

>>12398753
Electron comes back at a much higher velocity than the Falcon 9 booster or what Super Heavy will come down at. Electron doesn't do any braking burns, but Super Heavy will be performing a boost-back burn maneuver, which means the maximum velocity it reenters at will always be quite low. Falcon 9 only requires an entry burn on RTLS landings because it uses aluminum-lithium alloy tanks which cannot be allowed to get hotter than ~200 celsius. SH will be made of steel and designed to handle peak temperatures of over 800 degrees (not exposure, actual peak temperatures reached by the structures themselves).
The Starship Booster will literally never require an entry burn to be recovered. It will never need to perform a downrange landing, because it's sized up and more efficient than Falcon 9, which means it'll always have the performance to do RTLS even at max payload to LEO. RTLS involves slow reentry speeds, and slow speeds mean less heat on an already more heat resistant structure.

>>12398781
SpaceX were trying out parachute recovery on Falcon 9, yes. Due to the difference in scale it never worked out. Parachute recovery is a less optimal solution than propulsive landing anyway, for a number of reasons, so it's not like it matters much in the end.

>>12398842
Actually, the people referred to in >>12398825 are the euros

>>12399168

>>12399176
imagine being european in a space thread

>>12398906
Performance is nice but dollars are all that matter.
Oh your engine has 2x the specific impulse of my space program's main propulsion element? That's cool, but my rocket still works and it costs 10x less, and I don't need to jump through nuclear energy regulatory hoops.
Starship for example will use propulsion that's at most about 1/3rd the efficiency of a hydrogen propelled nuclear thermal rocket, but it can still reach Mars, which means for going to Mars it's the best option, because for the same cost as a single nuclear tug stage that lets you send 50 tons to Mars and return, we could send a dozen fully loaded Starships with ~150 tons of payload each and still get them back later, too.

>>12399183
Other drives have their place just not for getting off Earth because rocket tyranny. A nuclear or electric drive costs more up front but refilling it on nothing but water allows you to drive running costs into the ground. Chemical will eventually be phased out of operations outside of big gravity wells.

>>12398953
I agree. Their goal at the time was to get experience with landing at Mars and of course to drum up hype about Mars exploration, but someone must have convinced everyone else that they could just use NASA data and computer simulations to get way more experience way faster, and also that even a private capsule landing on Mars would probably go over 99% of people's heads. The public simply doesn't care about anything for long enough to make a difference.

Instead SpaceX pivoted to developing Starship and trying to impress the military rather than the public, in what could probably be regarded as one of the best moves in their history.

>>12399144
NET second half of the week.

>>12398981
I'd even ignore the biodiversity aspect and call it a consequence of cultures. It's not like every culture that is possible to exist MUST be rational and stable and stimulate technological and social progress. In fact one would expect, just like in any other idea space, that the vast majority of cultures would be complete stagnant shit and effectively broken, for the most part trapped in their local maximums.

It's going to be interesting once we have colonized most of the solar system and are transitioning into Dyson habitat swarm civilizations to see how the culture idea space is explored, and which newly formed cultures are going to grow to dominate and become the default branches of humanity. They will probably be offshoots of either American culture or Chinese culture.

>>12399180
>couldn't keep up with Russians
>win space race by forcing Germans to build rockets for them because they couldn't figure it out themselves

>>12399191
>Other drives have their place just not for getting off Earth because rocket tyranny.
For the most part, yeah
>A nuclear or electric drive costs more up front but refilling it on nothing but water allows you to drive running costs into the ground.
The only use case I advocate for nuclear thermal rockets is to power surface-to-orbit-and-back cargo shuttle craft that operate on and around the moons of the gas giants, which are made mostly of water. Even so, we will need to figure out a way of making manufacturing of nuclear thermal rockets much cheaper in order for it to make economic sense to use them even for that; A NTR is useful for a few hours of continuous firing before its fuel element is pooched by fission products that kill the neutron flux. Right now NTR engines would probably cost at least a few hundred million, probably over a billion (even RS-25, a chemical engine with a long manufacturing history, currently costs ~$200 million each). $1B / 7200 seconds = ~$140,000 per second of engine firing lifetime. By comparison, if a single Raptor costs ~$10 million and has a firing lifetime of two hours (enough for one booster to perform 40 launches before needing engine swaps), that's about $1400 per second, or 100x cheaper. Raptor is likely to have a much longer lifetime and also cost less, too, so reaching a figure below $100 per second seems achievable.

Just to compare, the RS-25s on SLS will burn for ~9 minutes and cost ~$200 million each. That's about $370,000 dollars per second, lmao.

>>12399236
>wahh they're not native it doesn't count

>>12399236
>>couldn't keep up with the Germans that the Soviets kidnapped after WW2 and set in charge of their space program
>>win space race by giving their own Germans more resources and control over their space program than the Soviets did their own
fixed

>>12399250
$1B per engine is a massive overstatement which misframes the entire rest of the argument. That's development tier money. The lifetime is also bogus. Even NERVA was seeing up to 6 hours, three times higher than your estimate, and that's an early prototype. Plus the limitation is not on the fuel element choking itself out (what the fuck are you on? fuel elements last years if not decades), it's on the protective coating around the element which makes it an approachable material science problem which stands to benefit from decades of advancement.

Told ya about my uncle in the FAA. No one trusted me.
Current plan is NET Thursday

>>12399260
>Germans that the Soviets kidnapped after WW2 and set in charge of their space program
oh, yeah, the famous German Rocket scientists - Serge von Korober and his successor Valentine-Peter Glussmann

>>12399363
Are you seriously trying to argue that the soviets didn't rely on german scientists because you can't think of any famous ones?

>>12399331
>what the fuck are you on? fuel elements last years if not decades
I literally work in nuclear science. Fuel elements last years if they are designed to have way more fissionable content than is actually necessary, and are used in a reactor that needs to shut down for refuelings (which means they load up on neutron economy so that at month 1 they need most of the parasitic absorbers inserted, and at month 18 they have most of the parasitic absorbers removed). Nuclear thermal engine fuel elements are very different and designed for very different conditions. In an engine, you need maximum thermal flux out of minimal mass, and you're limited by thermal conductivity of the fuel material itself. This means you need low volume (and mass) and high surface area. That's what lets you run each kg of fuel element at a much higher power output than a nuclear power plant's fuel bundles. However, this comes at the cost of reducing the amount of actual fuel per unit volume of reactor core; this combined with the reduced total fuel load is what makes the reactor more susceptible to poisoning out. Basically, in order for a nuclear reactor core to function in a thermal propulsion system, there are several design features that are made that directly limit total lifetime of the fuel element before too many fission products build up and poison the core, making it impossible to keep it running.

>>12399386
Nuclear engineers that didn't spend their time shitposting on 4chan saw the capability in those fuel rods was so far beyond what they were taxing them with that they proposed using them bimodally and having them operate for months as power generation. They may very well suffer reduced lifetimes compared to a typical fuel rod, but considering that a typical fuel rod operates constantly for years, that isn't a significant hindrance.

>>12399384
nah, I'm mostly shitposting

>>12398221
Partially-agreed. If only they made the suits safety orange instead of Walmart blue

>>12399409
>Nuclear engineers that didn't spend their time shitposting on 4chan
Why wouldn't I?
>saw the capability in those fuel rods was so far beyond what they were taxing them with that they proposed using them bimodally and having them operate for months as power generation
Yeah, the plan was to run the gigawatt-scale reactor core at a few hundred kilowatts of thermal power to drive a heat engine and make electricity. The thermal power level that a bimodal NTR would run at while coasting to make electricity would be less than the decay heat generated after a typical full thrust burn. The Pewee reactor designed for use in nuclear thermal rockets had a thermal output of between 2 and 3 gigawatts or so, and after a long burn would produce over 100 megawatts of decay heat (heat generated as fission products undergo beta decay and gamma emission, even if there's no more nuclear fission reaction taking place). Anyway the point is that running a nuclear core at less than a tenth of a percent of its maximum power output will let you run that core for a long time, obviously, but if you ramp the power to 100% you're obviously going to be reducing the lifetime proportionally.
>considering that a typical fuel rod operates constantly for years
A typical fuel rod has a reactivity coefficient large enough when it's first loaded into the reactor that it could be easily pushed beyond the critical heat flux in the reactor and cause a meltdown. They run these reactors with a large amount of neutron absorbing material inserted after a refueling takes place in order to lower the average reactivity of the core to something actually controllable. Over the next 18 to 24 months, the fuel reactivity slowly droops as fuel is fissioned and fission products pile up, and to compensate the neutron absorbing material is withdrawn in small steps. Eventually all of the excess neutron absorbers are removed and the reaction becomes very difficult to maintain, and eventually impossible.

>>12399416
They call it LEGO spaceman for a reason

>>12398888
because it showed proprietary hardware

>>12399468
Why was nerva capable of 6 hour runs?

>>12399468
To add to this, you may have heard of kilopower reactors? They're a small and simple design that illustrates the dynamics of a nuclear reactor quite well. Kilopower is designed so that the thermal expansion of the fuel element is what actually controls the reaction rate. To put it another way, the reactor runs and heats up, which expands the fuel and makes it less dense, which slows the rate of the reaction until the rate of heat production is balanced with the rate of heat removal. The reactor's power output is variable, but its temperature is not. If you put a running kilopower reactor in an insulated box, it would heat up and the reaction rate would slow down until it was equal to the rate that heat was leaking out of the box. Conversely, if you hooked up a cooling loop to the reactor, you could increase the flow rate to extract heat faster and increase the reactor's power output, right up until the point that heat couldn't conduct out of the fuel element fast enough and the insides of the reactor's fuel started melting.

Anyway, knowing that much about the design, some facts about kilopower make more sense. The reactor is good for ten years of continuous use because it runs at a very low specific power; they don't give the thing a massive radiator, so it can only run at a few dozen or a few hundred kilowatts thermal. The reactor is also capable of automatically hibernating for many decades with just a trickle of power output until it needs to run some electricity-hungry piece of equipment because until the heat engine is connected the core only needs a few dozen watts of thermal power to keep itself at ~800 celsius.

Obviously kilopower is not a NTR, because its fuel element is too thick to achieve the extremely high fuel surface temperatures needed for effective nuclear thermal propulsion without the fuel failing and melting. The trade off is that kilopower has a long operational life and a high fuel element density.

>>12399495
Because it had a low enough core temperature and a really big core. Lower temperature = thicker fuel elements = better neutron economy and reactivity, plus bigger core = more total fuel. Nerva ran with a specific power thousands of times higher than a nuclear power station's reactor core (that's watts per gram of fuel element). The same is true of any NTR reactor.

>>12399468
BNTEP was more like 300:1 (peak:operational power) than the 100,000:1 you're proposing, with the engines having a full power lifespan measured in days. I understand your arguments but you consistently downrate projected capability.

>>12399416
NASA training suits used to be blue. Made on demand, for the Air Force.

>>12399541
>you consistently downrate projected capability
I'm considering the "these are modern NASA + contractors + regulatory red tape we'd be dealing with here" factor also

>>12399416
I still prefer the idea of a hard helmet, although I don't mind at all the idea of airtight zippers. Give me a suit which is easy to climb into via an airtight zipper, which is trimmed down like the SpaceX suit without excessive folds of fabric to hang on stuff and which has a nice clean life support hookup out of the way, with the good old bucket helmet from Artemis/Shuttle a bit slimmed down.

>>12399583
That will always hold them back on Earth, but hopefully we get good uranium deposits on Mars. One way or another it's going to be difficult to sustain a presence beyond Jupiter, probably beyond Mars without a nuclear foundation.

Would it really be viable? Wings on core stage would make it less efficient and I don't think these folded wings on the booster would handle vibrations too well.

>>12399633
The idea was that the Energia II would land like Buran did.

>>12399633
>I don't think these folded wings on the booster would handle vibrations too well.
Why not? They shouldn't be under load during peak vibration.
It's a middle of the road solution that is definitely less efficient and less effective than retropropulsion, but I don't see why it fundamentally shouldn't function.

>>12399608
>>12399583
The main limitation are international laws.
Even if a retarded leader decided to ignore the rest of the world, it wouldn't be hard for other country to fuck-up the fragile infrastructure needed for the exploitation of space resources.

Mars dreamer often forget that their new frontier (on a cold irradiated barren hell) will require not just constant supply but also regulation to keep private investor from declaring himself emperor of Mars.

>>12399666
>The main limitation are international laws.
Such as?
>Mars dreamer often forget that their new frontier (on a cold irradiated barren hell) will require not just constant supply but also regulation to keep private investor from declaring himself emperor of Mars.
I'm pretty sure the need for supplies from Earth would keep a Mars colony loyal, Satan.

This is really cool. Sentinel-6 launch with a bunch of real-time data. It still amazes me how low they get with the booster's fuel.

>>12399666
>not just constant supply
Which Starship should be perfectly capable of providing, but also the necessity of which will slowly be weened off as the supplies will not just be raw materials but the means to access local resources. Teach a man to fish, etc. Mars is cold and irradiated but it offers everything we need to live on.
>regulation to keep private investor from declaring himself emperor of Mars
Why contain it? It isn't in the best interest of humanity to prevent hyper competent people from succeeding.

>>12399686
durrr forgot the link: https://youtu.be/1BYi2_8cBvw

pic related is that amount of fuel left after the entry burn. Meaning that's what they use to power the landing burn. Damn near fumes at that point.

Reminder that there's an engine called PEPE.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFqdiW3oEbM

>>12399040
Falcon Heavy was originally intended to be used a lot more than it has been, but later improvements to the Falcon 9 made the cheaper rocket capable of performing more of those missions.

>>12399728
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>12399180
the europeans have done a few interesting space probes and have one interesting space probe coming up, but other then that shit thats it

>>12399736
Isn't the cost to configure the pad for heavy and switch back to falcon 9 expensive as well? I thought that was the main reason why they haven't done falcon heavy as much

>>12398541
Next thread should be 7,800,000cm/s edition.

>>12399384
tankies hate honesty

>>>/wsg/3703163

not sure if this has been done/posted so here it is.

>>12399728
the green flame is pretty cool

>>12399728
kek the guy knows about pepe the frog now

>>12399768
>anyone who says Russians did something cool is commie
this is your brain on spray "cheese"

>>12399553
Orion was also testing a blue suit, back in the Constellation days.

>>12399672
Outer Space Treaty
Even if you pretend it's just paper or say it's ok if it's done by private company other countries will treat it as a power grab and take measure to force your hand.

>I'm pretty sure the need for supplies from Earth would keep a Mars colony loyal.
Not in the mind of dreamers, some usually expect their Mars rebellion in the first generation (although that have more to do with storytelling convention requiring to keep the same characters)

>Satan
I get it

>>12399689
By the time Mars obtain the "self sustaining" technology developed on Earth I expect us to discover it is vastly easier and more efficient to remain in space or go straight for the Jovian system. A single asteroid can sustain several time human population.
Decades of movies taking the easy way with "terraformed planet" have indoctrinated people into thinking any planet shaped surface are equal.
It would be easier to colonize the Moon than Mars.

>hyper competent
Doesn't really take competence to have your name on ownership paper of a company too big to fail. We've honestly just reworked monarchy to live of the democracy they corrupt.
I give credit to SpaceX actual engineers, still, Starship is not actually a good design to do anything useful on Mars. Assuming its actually rated for month/year long mission.

>>12399776
It has, but thank you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnMvZVEGsaI
check this engine out from 205

Shut the FUCK up.

>>12399836
holy BASED

>>12399836

Stop shitposting here, do it on /dbs/ but not here.

>>12399849
I will do as I want, dog. Speak to your master with more respect or you will be brutalized posthaste.

>>12399816
>Even if you pretend it's just paper or say it's ok if it's done by private company other countries will treat it as a power grab and take measure to force your hand.
Them and what army? Russia can't even reliably land rovers on Mars, let alone colony rockets.

>>12399858
>Headcanon
Get lost.

>>12399816
>Not in the mind of dreamers, some usually expect their Mars rebellion in the first generation (although that have more to do with storytelling convention requiring to keep the same characters)
I thought we were discussing about how a colony would work, not fiction.

>>12399864
Post-Soviet Russia has landed zero orbiters on Mars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars

>>12399852

Look, I respect you Jirenfriends and the the chads of /a/ are beyond peer but some threads need to left alone.

>>12399875
>moeshit
Did NOT read.

>>12399113
based frogposter

>>12399858
This. The space treaty doesn't even have provisions for if one of the signing countries breaks off from it.

>>12399835
2005*

Veni Vedi Vici

>>12399816
>By the time Mars obtain the "self sustaining" technology developed on Earth I expect us to discover it is vastly easier and more efficient to remain in space or go straight for the Jovian system. A single asteroid can sustain several time human population.
You don't seem to have any grasp on geology, which is the most important thing involved in space colonization. The processing of minerals is the foundation of life. Mars' nexus of ease of access and geological resources is the best among all bodies in the system. Asteroids are both largely more energetic to encounter due to lack of aerobraking, and possessing of limited resource profiles. They have overrepresented quantities of some elements and underrepresented quantities of others, such that a functioning asteroid economy would necessarily rely on multiple bases trading with one another. This will be more complex and time consuming to set up than Mars, which will be the staging base to the rest of the system.
>Doesn't really take competence to have your name on ownership paper of a company too big to fail.
So what? A declaration with no power behind it can be ignored. You don't need daddy to tell you that.

What is the cutest rocket engine?

>>12399813
This looks awful

>>12399898
>Moeshit
Out. NOW.

>>12399835
startup sounds like someone screaming

>>12399902
Describes Constellation perfectly

>>12399898
The Rutherford.

>>12399926
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

>>12399926
What was that?

>>12399946
The Ares I-X. It was supposed to fly Orion before it got cancelled in favor of SLS. Only flew one time in a test flight

>>12399926
how did that happen?

>>12399967
separated before turning off the bootser

>>12399968
You can't turn off srb.

>>12399959
>Only flew one time in a test flight
Even saying that is a bit of a stretch. Ares 1-X used a standard 4-segment shuttle SRB with a dummy 5th segment. Plus everything else to do with the mission was also just a mock-up

>>12399977
yes you can. Wait it out.

Is the tard wrangler jannie having the day off or something?

>>12399968
You think they would have made sure the SRB burn for the correct time before doing that.

>>12399930
How did Peter beck, a guy who liked rockets, build a successful smallsat launch company and vehicle with basically nothing, but virgin, a company supported by a billionaire, can't launch a low quality x-15 in a suborbital flight? And still hasn't launched their smallsat Pegasus rip-off

>>12399986
Dont worry he got the scary racist off but left the avatar fag alone!

>>12399995
Engineers build better technical companies than bean counters or PHBs do.

>>12399995
Cause global homo has no passion. You must have a passion to build rockets.

>>12399995
Because Peter Beck actually cares about rockets.
Galactic Virgin is nothing but a tax dodge for Branson.

>>12399946
>>12399967
https://youtu.be/H0ZHzAvFuYc?t=119
The booster burned for a little bit longer than anticipated, and it smacked against the upper stage after separation

>>12399995
wealth =/= talent

>>12398095
This is a suprisingly good test. We've already had three human-rated launch vehicles to ISS alone (boing btfo), and if you can't even name those three you're a hopeless IFLS. And I'm totally cool with referring to it just by initials from now on.
>>12398268
Bruce Willis can make even the lamest movie awesome by virtue of his character having that "how the fuck did I get here" attitude. (not saying Armageddon was bad, but he's shined through some real stinkers) And it makes an awesome movie more awesome.
>>12398340
>methalox engines
That right there means you have to redo the fuel tanks for the different fuel ratio. By the time you've done half of that shit you've done little more than keep a few contractors making the same stuff. It would be a tranny rocket.

>>12399995
It's almost like throwing money at a problem without understanding what the important issues to tackle are is woefully inefficient. Same problem BO has vs. SpaceX but on a greater scale.

>>12400009
No, the SLS is a tranny rocket.
>SRBs stretched
>side hanger tank mutilated to support vertical stress
>add a hydrolox upper stage with either a big fairing or capsule+LAS, and some white paint
>LOOK MOM I'M A SATURN V NOW
>I'M A REAL PRETTY MOON ROCKET
>*quiet sobbing as the SSMEs slag themselves and smash into the ocean*

>>12400022
It's almost like reviving piecemeal elements of a defunct rocket is a bad idea, and shouldn't be done to any rocket.

>>12397903
pls give another 10 billion sheckles to sls goy

>>12399946
>we will not be going to space today

>>12400038
Engine reuse/evolution can be done right. The AJ10 and RL10 have been around for a really long time but still keep getting picked because they work fucking great in the space for which they were designed. Slapping laser focused SSMEs on an entirely new design was just dumb.

>>12399858
It doesn't take as much effort to destroy what other have painfully built

>>12399874
Tell that to the dreamer who believe self-sufficient colony can be done with one space-truck and will "grow in-situ" as if it didn't require a superpower worth of engineer and supply-chain to build the tin can they came in.
If they get free molecular 3D printer I'm off to Jupiter, not Mars.

>>12399894
It seem I understand geology better than you.
Mars is just a bigger asteroid with a thin atmosphere. The Delta-V budget to get to interesting asteroids is comparable or even inferior to Mars and I'd bet on Moon long-term base before anything useful is done on Mars (having meatbag plant a flag is not useful)
We will have enough trouble modifying human DNA to live in weaker gravity. The way I see it, it take more effort/luck to get human just right for 0.3G than to make them ok for everywhere in space.
Assuming of course space expansion don't have us exploit asteroids and make space-hotel long before anyone sign to live on Mars.

>A declaration with no power behind it can be ignored. You don't need daddy to tell you that.
Say the anon who don't understand the corrupt world he live in, hope you don't take your lesson from /pol/.
The declaration will be backed by the army of the demo/plutocracy lawyers who set it up. Unless you make a competing company spontaneously appear with the same budget or turn the backing political power into one ok with expropriation for "reasons", you cannot ignore it.
Just like nations won't ignore (forever) one making powergrab over space resources (or sea resources).

Will NASA recover the slagged, burnt, smashed, waterlogged, rusted remains of the SSME engines from the Atlantic, and put them in a museum after Artemis 1? Or will they do their normal routine and let them sink, and be lost to time and corrosion?

>>12399995
I'd love for Peter Beck, Musk, and other successful rocket people to explain their approach to problem-solving and life in general. You have to have your shit together to have any hope of success in this field.

>>12400070
You know the answer to this Anon, the engines have to be totally destroyed, ruined utterly beyond any hope of refurbishment so that they can get the government to contract them to build entirely new engines.

>>12398032
Wait what’s wrong with the jwst, despite delays of course.

>>12398842
Go back pls

>>12400097
>Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

>>12400102
kek

>>12398175

>>12400070
NASA didn't even recover Apollo remains from the ocean.

>>12399250
>Just to compare, the RS-25s on SLS will burn for ~9 minutes and cost ~$200 million each. That's about $370,000 dollars per second, lmao.

>>12400121
>It costs $4,440,000 to fire this rocket... for 12 seconds.

>>12398871
it still really irks me that NASA themselves recognized that the Saturn-inspired SLS was superior to the shuttle-derived, but they went with the latter anyways so that they could keep shuttle contractors happy.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/545101main_11-05_HEC_Formulation_Plan.pdf

https://youtu.be/ZNZx208bw0g
>..."the liquid oxygen rp1 Saturn 5 style rocket was superior and the big reason that they chose shuttle-derived was because of this and I think that is actually the reality of what happened that NASA would have preferred the Saturn 5 version and they kind of felt like they had to choose this version because of the direction they got from Congress"

>>12400146

>>12399930

FLIGHT WEDNESDAY

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1333123173815087111

>>12400167
Please be true this time. No more delays.

>>12400175
>flight no earlier than wednesday
It will delay

>everyone is creaming their pants at the idea of colonizing mars meanwhile back here on Earth we've barely even colonized Antarctica
>an entire continent is home to less than 2,000 people
>no space travel needed, just hardened seaports and airstrips

Before we go to Mars, should we set up an "International Antarctic Colony", as both a trial run for planetary colonization, and a species security measure in case a catastrophe fucks up the other 6 continents? Antarctica is unironically easier to colonize than Mars, because unlike the latter humans do not need to bring oxygen, water and pressurized habitats. We do however need habitats that can effectively withstand the bitter cold and increased UV radiation from being right under the ozone hole. We also need to be able to set up sealed botanical systems that allow us to grow food in an environment where virtually no plant on Earth can survive. The only truly feasible energy source would be nuclear, and perhaps wind can be a secondary source.

I am aware that Antarctica is currently protected by the Antarctic Treaty System but we could potentially amend that to allow peaceful international collaborative colonization and resource extraction but only if such activities do not harm the Antarctic environment or the other 6 continents. And since Antarctica has enormous reserves of coal deposits (currently more than the rest of the world combined), naturally the coal lobby will try to get their foot in the door so we'll have to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Y/N?

>>12400146
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>12400200
>I am aware that Antarctica is currently protected by the Antarctic Treaty System but we could potentially amend that to allow peaceful international collaborative colonization and resource extraction but only if such activities do not harm the Antarctic environment or the other 6 continents. And since Antarctica has enormous reserves of coal deposits (currently more than the rest of the world combined), naturally the coal lobby will try to get their foot in the door so we'll have to tell them to go fuck themselves.
Nah, we should just have the USN sink everyone else's boats and claim the whole place for ourselves.

>>12400064
>It seem I understand geology better than you.
>Mars is just a bigger asteroid
>I'd bet on Moon long-term base before anything useful is done on Mars
You are the personification of the Dunning
Kruger effect.
>The declaration will be backed by the army of the demo/plutocracy lawyers who set it up.
By what framework are you proposing this? What's the legal precedent for "Emperor of Mars"? The only thing that matters is who controls what resources exist on its surface. Right now that's no one. Soon it will be SpaceX, and that's a good thing. Why should I try to stop that?

>>12400064
I don’t think you understand geology at all lmao

>>12400167
it says "no earlier than Wednesday". Given past precedent one should expect delays. That way if it IS actually Wednesday it's an exciting surprise vs being disappointed if the date slips.

>>12400206
pretty much how I reacted to knowing that Saturn V 2.0 was actually on the table at one point.

>>12400064
>having meatbag plant a flag is not useful
That's why you have the crew there to do other things like geology research, surveying, resource searching, and maybe even look for signs of alien life.

>>12400146
better highlighting

>>12400146
>>12400239
They fucking knew that SLS would go over budget and time. Explains why NASA rolled over when Boing! kept missing milestones. Why is it that every time I learn something new about SLS I end up hating it more?

>>12400254
SLS is the physical manifestation of everything wrong with the federal government and the country as a whole.

https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/412
Wtf, France has Soyuz rockets?

>>12400262
They buy launches from the russkies because the Vega keeps exploding and Ariane 5 production is slow.

>>12398377
people still watch thunderfoot?

>>12400278
People apparently like getting angered.

>>12400258
>physical manifestation of everything wrong with the federal government and the country as a whole.
it's funny how accurate this is. Comparing the Saturn V to the SLS illustrates perfectly the differences between the greatest generation and the baby boomers

>>12400278
i watch him because it is funny how much of a retard he is
same reason i watch flat earthers

>>12400282
New here?

>>12400324
Not even slightly, but Blunderf00t, really?
>"The Falcon 9 is basically a redstone rocket that uses methane and lox"

>>12399553
I’m pretty sure those are just old A5Ls that were built before they added the fire resistant beta cloth exterior to the A7L.

One of these will cost millions and millions and millions more than the other

Hoppe when.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn10Jf1x24Q

>>12400329
that's in his greatest hits!

>>12400346
Shuttle?

>>12397824

It could have unironically worked if Lockheed scrapped the SSTO idea and used a version of the orbiter scaled down to around 50%, with the aerospikes swapped with conventional bell nozzles, mounted on top of a conventional 2 or 3 stage stack. A "double bubble" main stage with 2 sets of radial engine clusters at the bottom would be best suited for this task. Conventional side mounted boosters could be fitted as needed.

Lockheed should legit resurrect the Venture Star in this manner as a tanker for propellant depot servicing.

Starship has delta wing therefore its spaceplane.

>>12400350
NET Wednesday

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1333123173815087111

>>12400200
I largely agree. Seems like it’d be a much more meaningful test of Mars colonization methods than those make believe camps in more habitable remote areas on Earth. There’s even a dry valley near McMurdo that has very similar conditions to the Martian surface (other than air pressure obviously). That’d be an ideal site.

>>12400365
The delta wing does not exist in the built versions of Starship. It has been replaced with body flaps.

>>12400377
Its actuated wing.

>>12400377
nope, it has even more wings now and anyone with real sense (ie x-plane developer) knows it's a plane. it's only controversial on sfg because you're low iq

>>12400221
That depends on how successful the static fire is. If its nominal, then we can have a proper flight.

LMAO another static fire?? Hmmm sounds like Elon is less confident yet again. Poor little Raptor, the upcoming honk will be its last. Gonna enjoy this new campaign, hop next week (every week)!

>>12400403
I know you're shitposting, but apparently the next static fire is going to be a double SF. First the ship fires from main tanks and then fires from the header tanks. Emulating landing procedure.

>>12400381
I'd argue it's more like canards and tailfins and no wings than it is two pairs of actuated wings. In an aircraft the purpose of the wing is primarily to generate lift while canards, tailplanes and a vertical tailfin's purpose is to provide pitch, roll, and yaw control. In Starship the actuated fins will produce some lift, but their primary function is, like the canards and tailfins of an aircraft, to provide pitch, roll, and yaw control to allow Starship to both guide itself in and perform it's flip maneuver for a propulsive landing.
A wing in an aircraft is primarily a lifting surface and secondarily a control surface, while canards and fins are primarily control surfaces and secondarily lifting surfaces.

>>12399113
the first four are all the same rocket

>>12400403
Not gonna lie, former SpaceX fan here. This is fucking hilarious watching Elon crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this guy get the nuclear codes...

>>12399156
you could absolutely squeeze tens of tons more out of Starship Super Heavy if you did downrange landing, but the hit to cadence would be unacceptable

>>12400403
inb4 honk

>>12400403
i dont want to wait till Q2 2021 bros.....

>>12400384
>>12400403
6/10... reward: +1 (you)’s

>>12400454
hasn't there been honking at shutdown for pretty much all the recent static fires?

>>12400479
which is exactly why we will keep having static fires until raptor fixes its shit

>>12399633
the switchblade wings would heat up too much but it's not a bad solution
it would work better as a more conventional dolphin sex double shuttle

>>12400493
I prefer the brap fetish version, myself

>>12400493
>conventional dolphin sex
That's a string of words I never thought I'd read.

>>12399728
that engine is burning combustion chamber green

>>12400497
the threesome version is also pretty great

>>12400503
woah rocket dp

>>12400479
Honk is nothing to worry about right now.

Hey guys, I'm a Raptor. Honk honk.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/books/independent-bookstores-economy.html
>Buy books from people who want to sell books, not colonize the moon
>Amazon, please leave the dystopia to Orwell

>>12400200

The only feasible locations for this would be on the coasts.

>>12400483
my point was that the honking doesn't seem to be such a big issue that damages the raptors enough to prevent flight. If it did, we would have seen more raptors being swapped out. Furthermore, sn8 ops are moving towards tests that test the new plumbing of sn8 ahead of flight, such as the handover from main tanks to headers, rather than just repeating the same 1-3 engine firings. As far as I know, the issue raptor experienced recently relating to melting out its insides was unrelated to any honking at shutdown.

>>12400519
as a big SpaceX stan, this post triggers me. can you delete it?

>>12400498

>>12400529
brb buying more trashy Japanese LNs on Kindle

>>12400518
This. Last static fire still honked, but much more quietly. They seem content with that.

>>12400531
Despite what blackpilled texas tank watchers might have you believe, we don't have any documented instances of raptors melting their insides out at all outside of pressure testing (330bar being the latest). The damage to the shrapnel fragged raptor is unknown.

>>12400529
w-what if I want to buy a book about colonizing the moon?

>>12400549
who cares about honks? the point is we're still doing static fires after most recent one was supposed to be the last. the ride never ends

>>12400554
? Elon himself said it. It's called oxygen burning

>>12400555
Sorry. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress promotes traditionally white supremacist colonial attitudes such as self sufficiency, individualism, and personal responsibility. As a result, reading such a book would be very problematic.

>>12400575
You don't seem to have finished your thought.

>>12400519

>>12400554
Elon said that the shrapnel damage resulted in a hard shutdown due to severed avionics lines. If the lox preburner has to be shut down in a specific manner, a bad shutdown could very well slag the interior.

>>12400628
>If
>could
I said unknown.

>>12400582
You listening, Bog? Is a computer one of Your creatures?

>>12400596

>>12400672
600Hz / 10

Blue origin stans eternally triggered! Can't even make it orbit.

>>12400582
>traditionally white supremacist colonial attitudes such as self sufficiency, individualism, and personal responsibility
Americans are obsessed with detaching their 17th and 18th century British ideals from their roots.

>>12400714
The only people bitching about this are the shitskins and Jews hanging out in the bottom left tard corner of this image.

>>12400531
from the start "honk = severe engine damage" was wild speculation and has already been proven false. While the raptor certainly has maturing to do posts claiming that the raptor is irreversibly broken because of a noise on shutdown are 100% shitposting at this point.

>>12400529
criticizing Amazon and other authoritarian tech giants is great, but doing so by highlighting Bezos' desire to explore space is just bizarre. This anti-space stance that seems increasingly popular among the libs is going to blow up in their face.

>>12400672
perfect

>>12400687

>>12400529
>Buy books from people who want to sell books, not colonize the moon
Where the hell does this come from? How is that a valid criticism?

>>12400767
>Where the hell does this come from?

>>12400735
>This anti-space stance that seems increasingly popular among the libs is going to blow up in their face.
no it won't lol
they're the dominant cultural force in almost every western country and demographics are on their side

>>12400529
don't post stuff thats behind a paywall, not everyone is a richfag
https://archive.is/pr97o

>>12400369
Fuck, another static fire with another chance for the raptors to misbehave. Elon saying no sooner than wednesday is pretty much confirmation that it won't be this week at all.

>>12400799
https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

Enjoy. Works a treat for NYT.

>>12400779
it'll blow up in their face when people who could care less about "human rights" are on top of their precious little gravity well

>>12400529
These dumb-fucks think colonizing the moon is bad purely because of the word ''colonizing'' don't they? We can't colonize these rocks fast enough, I want out of this well filled with idiots

Whats the chance Musk will leapfrog Bezos next year in terms of net worth? Musk is already 132B right now. Bezos at 186B.

SpaceX valuation goes up from 50B currently to 100B -> Musk networth increase to ~160B. If Tesla shares go up any higher next year, that will have a chance of propeling him to 200B easily.

>>12400927
Bezos isn't exactly a static target. Amazon stonks always go up in December because Christmas shopping.

>>12400767
it could just not be a criticism at all
it could just be bait
is there any better way to make your opponents look dumb than to trick them into defending the very same soulless multinational corporations that donate millions to liberal causes?

>>12400731
As shit as this test is I wonder where this thread is placed in it. I'm usually on the edge between ''What is the age of consent in space'' and New Shepard. Not to make this thread political of course

>>12400927
Tesla stock bubble is going to pop when the other car brands catch up.
But that's still far off so maybe.

>>12400959

>>12400967
Make him look fatter and dye his hair blonde.

>>12400206
Do you want to talk about hate? Let me tell you about hate...

>>12400981
silence, Jew

>>12400731
>Elon
>right
El Oh El

>>12400988

>>12400981
Tromp

>>12400991
What a smoothbrain take

>>12400988
>A billionaire capitalist can be left wing

What kinda Overton window does your dimension have? I assume Maoists are the far right and the moderate left is represented by IngSoc

>>12400226
>maybe even look for signs of alien life
You mean by polluting the hell out of it with human germ first?
It would actually be more efficient to keep the human in orbit and remote-control robots.
Also Mars resources are only good to build in-situ, it's another appeal for some fanboy because asteroid to them equate to salary job.
IMHO if you want to do something useful you should put your money on asteroid/moon first. It won't happen in you life-time anyway so you can feel good knowing you encouraged the actually useful infrastructure.

>>12400214
Say the one with no arguments except a wishful belief that Mars is inhabitable because it kinda look like a mere desert instead of a -50°C cold hell with very thin atmosphere. You are not going to land there and start converting conveniently concentrated surface minerals into the thousand alloy and organic compounds required for anything useful. Printing dirt house on Mars won't be useful for more than research.

>By what framework are you proposing this? What's the legal precedent for "Emperor of Mars"?
Read again, I'm not proposing anything, I'm saying there WILL be regulation to prevent that from being possible at all even figuratively.
We already have plenty of example here of companies abusing or disregarding laws even in top tier countries and you only have your earnest assumption they won't try "because rocket are honorable" or just abuse a monopole.
I said this because Mars dreamers are often under the belief that Mars is 'meant' to become an politically independent new frontier, somehow free of all the stuff they hates.
Competence or not, if the person who pay for everything want a statue of himself built there, he might get it.

I hope I answered you, but it will be constructive if you tell us where you stand:
Which order for: Asteroid, Moon, Mars?
Independent colonies?
What's the biggest technical/economical/political problem before those happen.
This thread or the next.

>>12400927
I don't know about next year, but after Starlink goes to IPO he's going to be the richest man by a large margin.

>>12400991
he seems to be describing a sort of socialism that is good for the nation as a whole
whatever could he mean by this?

How fireproof are spacesuits?

>>12401030
>You mean by polluting the hell out of it with human germ first?
Space suits and sealed habitats are a thing, you know? It's not like the colonists would have designated shitting craters.
>It would actually be more efficient to keep the human in orbit and remote-control robots.
Considering how slow robots are even on the moon, I doubt that.
>Also Mars resources are only good to build in-situ
Which is great because that would reduce the amount of material needed to send.
>IMHO if you want to do something useful you should put your money on asteroid/moon first.
You're in your rights to believe that and support groups that want to do that, but that's not going to stop others from going to Mars.
>It won't happen in you life-time anyway
That is a terrible mindset to have in spaceflight. It encourages slow development and nebulous goals.

>>12401084
Whoops, meant to post the full thing

>>12401084
More than they used to be.

https://youtu.be/Y7mGUIeBthk
Elon autism time

>sfg says reddit is good
>check it out
>half of the posts are people shilling their youtube channels
???

>>12401122
>sfg says reddit is good
Since when?