/sci/ - Science & Math

First for FREEDOM

Reminder that SLS will reach orbit before Starship

IT'S HOPPENING

>>12393945
Reminder that you didn't make the first post faggot

>>12393945
Wasn't it supposed to reach orbit around 2012?

Reminder that chuds will not be tolerated in space

>>12393928
Anyone have that shoop with the Shuttle stack compared to SN8?
That was impressive to me, I can't imagine the reaction if you managed to get a wide audience of normies to see it.

>>12393960
agreed, citydwellers not allowed

>>12393945

>>12393928
I love Soyuz launches from Kourou, what a confused mess

>>12393962

>Anyone have that shoop with the Shuttle stack compared to SN8?

Here you go.

>>12393917

Hi there lurker.

>>12393981
A post-Soviet republic selling rocket launches to NATO members and launching from South America does sound like something out of Neuromancer or Snow Crash.

>>12393960
>>12393975
>those confined to tightly packed populated spaces not allowed in space
Yeah that makes sense (not)

>>12393960
Everyone in space will be Humanoid Underground Dwellers. If things go poorly, they might be Cannibalistic as well.

>>12393960
isn't elon a chud though? he busts unions and has openly made fun of marx and has said communism has never worked

>>12393996
no, vetoed

>>12393998
C.H.U.D. means cannabilistic humanoid underground dwellers, which perfectly describes the type of city-dwelling liberals who try to use it to mean "person I disagree with"

>>12393996
>LunarDragon.png
>only thing it does is add a shitton of dry mass to the second stage
that second stage would neither land nor make orbit btw

>>12393996
It would be better if the second stage were replaced with a quad engine Centaur stage

>>12393998
if there's one real tragedy of the BLM movement it's that nobody ever drew attention to the fact that the whole problem directly stems from corrupt police unions and that their "defund the police" case study in Camden NJ was really just union busting. Too bad they can't target unions because then they lose the moral highground.

>>12393954
2015 to be precise

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200108160338.htm
i wonder what the chances are that life extension technology that allows living for hundreds of years to be accessible to middle class people within 50-60 years
>>12394007
its mostly used by communists i thought? but i guess liberals use it as well

>>12394035
uh yeah sorry I don't really make a distinction between "city dwelling shitty libs" and "communists"

To you people living out in country to avoid being close to 'those city folk' thinking you'll make it in space over those who are used to density, ngmi I'm afraid

>>12393984
yeah that's the good stuff

>>12394007
>liberals calling people sub-human
wowee

yeah
but none of this is spaceflight, can we go back to trying to talk about how propane won't soot up

>>12393944
I will forever remain pissed that NASA's orbital infrastructure and nuclear parts of STS got gimped for 50 fucking years.

>>12394037
That's because there isn't one anymore.

>>12394050
It will.

>>12394017
yeah, different engines, more fuel, attitude control, idk

there was some guy on about space opportunities in Australia?
https://www.spaceconnectonline.com.au/operations/4643-northrop-grumman-australia-signs-mou-with-gilmour-space-to-develop-space-capabilities

SOME MORE BEHIND THE SCENES LOOKS FROM OUR BROS EXOS AEROSPACE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol7Oa0I3ecA

>>12394068
Northrop Grumman Manufacturing Incorporated

https://youtu.be/_Vn9WMFLV_E

>>12394071
Based and in a cave with a box of scraps pilled, send 'em to Mars

>>12393991
This, there's something about my country paying for ~2% of a Soyuz rocket launching from another hemisphere that gets me going

what the fuck France

>>12394094
>hon hon hon skeilön go nyouum

>>12393945
maybe only once before cornpop cancels it

>>12394094
a new concorde? what a nice timing, now that even regular airlines are in shambles

>>12394104
no, it's Skylon

tfw no lifting bodies

>>12394103
wtf i love biden now???

>>12394094
>asking budget 12billion, actual funding sub 100m
>ETA fucking never
>sounds like a great idea, make another
What even are euros?

>>12394094
>Another fucking skylon.
Ok place your bets now everyone, how many of these things will Yurop pretend to make before quitting or stalling out early in the prototype stage this time around?

>>12394113
Fond of concepts that will never leave the ground? Hardly a unique position to be in

>>12394094
French stealing from it's neighbors again? No real shock tbqh.

>>12394125
LMAO no-one tell him that boing and lockheed are buying into SABRE for their own skylon concepts.

>>12394125
Three.
>Skeilon
>Fauxlcon
>Starsheep

>>12393728
>propellant: impulse density
does anyone have a chart or something comparing propellants along this statistic?

I bet ESA could make it work with enough partnerships and bureaucracy but they'd finish it in 2052 after ITER

>>12394183
subcooled propalox: mostest
methalox: big
kerolox: yes
spicy orange and cancer juice: pretty good
hydrolox: bad

>>12394183

>>12394192
Regular old liquid water is more dense than all of them, and can be used in 1500+ Isp plasma thrusters. With beamed power you could probably use such a system for earth lift.

>>12394237
Why the fuck is this table not sorted

>>12394253
It is sorted. Look at the rhoE column.

>>12394237
This is the spherical cow number, you have to adjust for ISP to get a practical number.

>>12394237
>>12394253
>>12394256
this is not a useful table, it doesn't factor in the different stoichiometric ratios for oxygen that are required
also their density for propane is way off, I think this is propane at 1 atm and boiling point
>>12394262
yeah

>>12394113
We euros have this retarded as fucking hell funding system where governments fund the initial research and then expect the researchers to get private funding for doing the thing. And if they manage to do it then we whine how Comapnies not based here are benefitting from the finished product while we barely get anythig from the patents for it.

>>12394094

SkyLon? More like SkyHon.

>>12394192
if hydrogen is so shitty then why is it still so good in 2nd stages? Its raw isp makes up for increased tank weight and being able to carry less of it?

>>12394277
>Its raw isp makes up for increased tank weight and being able to carry less of it?
Yes if the stage isn't limited by size. In orbit, Isp is king.

>>12394277
Yes. Isp is king in second/orbital stages, hence why 0.01g brachistochrones are a thing. It just gets swamped for first stages by the need for raw THROOST to get out of the gravity-loss phase.

>>12394277
uh so it's shitty for single stage performance (which is what we're measuring here) but it weighs much less for a given performance so you can use a much smaller first stage to throw it
>>12394280
shut the fuck up retard

Nov. 28Angara-A5 • Test Flight
Launch time: 0522 GMT (12:22 a.m. EST)
Launch site: Plesetsk Cosmodrome, Russia
A Russian government Angara-A5 rocket will launch on its second orbital test flight. Delayed from December and 2nd Quarter. Delayed from Nov. 3 and Nov. 24.

>>12394282
>THROOST

>>12394300
Yes, that is why hydrolols rockets need SRBs.

Why not launch from top of mount Everest?

[math]\sin\left(x\right)[/math]

>>12394304
Worse inclinations than KSC plus you'd need to have your first stage passing over China the entire way.

>>12392692
Since the Starlink satellites communicate through laser and can obviously communicate with each other they could certainly all focus their lasers onto a single satellite to continually heat it up to the point of inoperability or even outright melting it fairly easily.
Since the Starlink constellation is going to have 42,000 satellites that means 84 Starlink satellites could be focused on each Chinese satellite all at the same time.

>>12394304
rockets reach the height of mt everest like in a minute

>>12393945

Are starlink satellites more environmentally friendly than land based cable?

>>12394298

That is outdated information, the date has shifted to December the 4th:

https://ria.ru/20201123/angara--1585932853.html

>>MOCКBA, 23 нoя - PИA Hoвocти. Bтopoй иcпытaтeльный пycк paкeты-нocитeля тяжeлoгo клacca "Aнгapa-A5" c кocмoдpoмa Плeceцк в Apхaнгeльcкoй oблacти, oтлoжeнный пo тeхничecким пpичинaм, мoжeт cocтoятьcя 4-5 дeкaбpя, зaявили PИA Hoвocти тpи иcтoчникa в paкeтнo-кocмичecкoй oтpacли.

English translated:

>>MOSCOW, November 23 - RIA Novosti. The second test launch of the Angara-A5 heavy-class launch vehicle from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in the Arkhangelsk region, postponed for technical reasons, may take place on December 4-5, three sources in the rocket and space industry told RIA Novosti.

>>12394322
Damn, is there an accurate space launch schedule tracker? Spaceflight Now always seems to have a bunch of wrong entries.

>>12394107
Ahem, Le Skylon.

>>12394298
>second orbital test flight
Why is it taking them so long to get this thing fully operational?

>>12394322
Why is there a US flag on that squatrocket?

>>12393945
>yfw Musk manages to get a starship just over the 100km line a few days before SLS
>yfw it lands back successfully

>>12394339
Yeah I guess you could say hundreds of days is "a few".

>>12394329

For Russian launches, the Russian launch manifest is VERY accurate:

http://www.sworld.com.au/steven/space/russia-man.txt

>>12394331
No, thats German for The Skylon The.

>>12394277
Once you're out of the gravity well, mileage is king. Would you rather drive uphill with a beast of a 4x4 diesel that chugs fuel like a motherfucker or would you do it in a compact car that can barely pull its own weight in a slight incline but can go almost forever on the flats?

That's why hydrogen is complete shit as long as we're bound by gravity.

>>12394329
maybe NSF's calendar? https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=calendar
All of my autism sensors are saturated by that place so their calendar may be more accurate and up to date

>>12394337

That is because of ILS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Launch_Services

>>Headquarters Reston, Virginia, U.S.

>>12394359
>exclusive rights to the worldwide sale of commercial Angara and Proton rocket launch services
>Lockheed-Martin
lel what

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Super-dense methane" bullshit that's going on in the solar system right now. Hydrogen deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned genuine hydrogen in Florida for $20,000 (that's about 2 jobs in Alabama) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even produce 7000kN of thrust with an engine.

Aerospace chemists spend years working on a single tank of hydrogen and crack it up to a million times to produce the finest fuel known to mankind.

Hydrogen is thrice as powerful as hydrocarbon fuels and thrice as forceful for that matter too. Anything propane can push; a hydrogen can push better. I'm pretty sure a hydrogen could easily lift a moon mission with a simple booster-sustainer rocket.

Ever wonder why space agencies never bothered using non-hydrogen fuels to go to the moon? That's right, they were too scared make the attempt using inferior fuels. Even during the Space Race, Soviet spies targeted the American engineers with the hydrogen knowledge first because their power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Hydrogen is simply the best fuel that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the solar system. Here is the stat block I propose for hydrogen:

(Upper Stage Exotic Fuel)
Thrust coefficient of 3
550s specific impulse
+2 to storage density
Counts as Masterwork

(Booster Stage Exotic Fuel)
Thrust coefficient of 4
500s specific impulse
+5 to storage density
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the power of hydrogen in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Hydrogen needs to lift more in the solar system, see my new stat block.

>>12394369
You glorious motherfucker.

>>12394035
Fucking zero percent. Cope.

>>12394339
Bigger question to ask would be if NASA would pay off Elon to postpone any SN launches beyond 2021 to reduce the potential embarrassment. Implying that the gateway contracts and other NASA commercial delivery contracts are not already being given out with that in mind.

>>12394462
NASA doesn't have the foresight or care to do something like that, and Elon wouldn't take it. Certainly Jim's NASA wouldn't do that, since they like Starship and would use its success to whip oldspace into shape, and there's a chance some of that spirit perseveres into the next administration.

>>12394312
You might be on to something here...

>>12394312
>>12394503
the interplanetary lasers would be better for that, but yeah

>>12393683
>>12393728
Decided to do calculate thrust per unit area for these 3 engines. Units are Meganewtons per meter2

>Raptor goal (300 bar)
1.846 MN/m2

>Raptor current
1.477 MN/m2

>Merlin
1.279 MN/m2

>BE-4
0.864 MN/m2

Of course time will tell if the Raptor can hit its ambitious goals and if the BE-4 will improve any (engine is supposedly performing "better than expected").

>>12394527
Raptor is already 300 bar and has reached even further since that nu-male astronaut did his research.

What's in the mystery delivery in Boca Chica? o_o

>>12394537
300 bar consistently or 300 bar as a brief peak? Sorry, a bit behind raptor developments

>>12394329
maybe this one? https://nextspaceflight.com/

>>12394527
based and thrust/area pilled
Also BE4 is probably unoptimized as fuck and it's entirely the fault of their testing regime.

>>12394544
testing regime?
Anyways, yeah it's really cool how SpaceX apparently deliberately optimized for thrust/area. The raptor is larger than the merlin but it's more taller than wider. Does any other engine have the lox pump directly above the injection plate?

>>12394552
>testing regime?
yes:
>just make a couple of operational prototypes
>sloowly test them bit by bit
Had they done what SpaceX did with raptor and started pumping them out and blowing them up the second they had something that halfway worked, BE4 would be operating years ago and likely at higher performance.

>>12394542
They got 330 bar for peak before slight issues, so I assume 300 bar consistent is easily doable as its 10% below the max threshold. Elon even said they'll push further to get more safer/stable peaks.

>>12394486
>NASA doesn't have the foresight or care to do something like that
To be fair, NASA has stunted the development of multiple launchers and spacecraft that has been seen as an existential threat to the then current managerial regime. It's the core reason why the shuttle continued flying and all alternatives like the HL-20 and Shuttle-C were utterly dismissed. Hell if you wanted to go full conspiratorial you could argue that VentureStar wasn't given it's fair chance due to the regime at NASA not wanting to shake up the then current Shuttle administration

>>12394539
Experimental alcubierre warp engine.

>>12394570
That's entirely internal. Starship isn't competing for a slice of the NASA funding pie (paltry amounts here and there, but nothing by administrative standards), the same pressures don't apply and they have no leverage.

>>12394585
really? amazing

>>12394539
Rolls of outgassing tape

>>12394539
Metal

>>12394614
It comes from hell

>>12394539
superheavy legs

does the BE-4 have ANY advantages over the Raptor?

>>12394620
OldSpace have glomped onto it as the new big thing. In the words of that one Joe Scott video I saw on it it's apparently a "game changer"

Honestly I can't think of a single one

>>12394539
This? Probably crane parts, maybe landing legs but seems too big for that.

>>12394626
I feel like posting this exact comment in every /sfg/ that goes by yet never muster up the courage

>>12394620
More margin for reusability/future improvements? This is just a speculation though.

>>12394620
BE-4 will save spaceflight

>>12394635
based blue origin whitepiller

>>12394620
Lower chamber pressure and less strenuous operating conditions might end up in it having a longer service life, however since Blue are fucking black book fags about the actual details of their rocket, that assumption may not be well founded.
Until Blue are actually open about what their engine does, I will assume it's a piece of shit anemic in all significant qualities and their silence is borne of embarrassment.

>>12394094
>france actually does make it
>only the most baguette of the baguettes can actually make it into space, flights with terrorists conveniently explode
>french colonize the moon
>a few decades pass
>earth is overrun by mutts with a few long noses trying to herd them
>suddenly spaceX starships hurl themselves into the atmosphere and land
>squadrons upon squadrons land and start blasting upon the soulless mutts like a contra level
>nosebergs are shocked at years of degeneracy being undone within hours
>Ashton (formerly X Æ A-12 (Elon left Grimes and found yet another midwife on Mars)) Musk is about to shoot a merchant in the face
>a flock of hyperstars suddenly swoop in
>suddenly the minecraft villager Ash was about to turn into hamburger meat gets backstabbed and collapses
>the murderer uncloaks his suit
>utters this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/c/cd/Spy_laughlong01.wav
>next war on earth is the great Rhodesian-French war

>>12394051
I'm pissed that nuclear propulsion in the private sector got gimped. Micronuke NTRs pls kthx

>>12394620
absolutely never honks, and doesn't have molten diarrhea

>>12394262
Correct

>>12394620
It can be sold to even slower aerospace companies

>>12394620
No on every metric of thrust (per weight, volume, area, dollar, etc), unknown but almost certainly no on efficiency, maybe on readiness but as long as it hasn't left a test stand I don't accept it. Of course if you're not BO the biggest advantage it has is they'll actually sell it.

>>12394644
dubs of truth

>>12394649
ULA reminds me of automakers, except they dont even make their own engines now lol

Reminder, 3 days left till 15 KM flight.

>>12394620
Cost Plus contracts.

Here's a question: Merlin performance was increased substantially since Falcon 1. Assuming BO follows a similar path with BE-4, and two launch vehicles rely on BE-4, could ULA be left out of engine upgrades? Or is BO okay with increasing the performance of their competitor's vehicle? Hmmm

>>12394666
Vulcan will probably only sell government contracted launches

>>12394654
>they dont even make their own engines now
They never did. RL-10 is an Aerojet Rocketdyne product, as is the RS-68, while the Atlas first stage engines are Russian leftovers. ULA handles tankage, assembly, and launch operations.

>>12394666
Wasn't it internal ULA R&D that got the engine actually working? I'm sure they have some kind of sharing agreement anyway.

>>12394620
Current tests show that the BE-4 can offer the best performance per engine however raptors cost=/=performance is 3-5 times cheaper while providing 0.20 less MN thrust per engine compared to the BE-4. Both engines make the RS-25 look like a fucking joke, at least at sea level.

Approximately how much are most satellites worth in scrap value?

I was brainstorming idea for a spaceplane about 2/3 the size of the Shuttle and 1/4 its gross weight. It's primary role would be repair services, personnel transport, and also returning defunct or decommissioned satellites to earth for scrapping. I was hoping the vehicle would be just small enough to replace the second stage of a Falcon Heavy.

Could satellite scrap value potentially pay back development costs?

https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20201121-MH-MAT01-0001-Sentinel_6_Live_Launch_Coverage_USAF_30th_SW_Isolated_Views-3263265

this is really cool. End-to-end F9 booster tracking courtesy of the USAF

>>12394627
Holy fuck what if they randomly go back to the ITS landing leg design for super heavy. Half of you would be pissed

>>12394721
landing legs are a "contentious" design point right now at SpaceX

>>12394704
This is fucking awesome

>>12394704
neat

>>12394304
Is cold and windy.

>>12394369
Hydrogen a shit.
Methane is the good stuff.

>>12394736
If everyone farted in the direction of NASA, the space agency could recoup a lot of cost.

>>12394704
Made a webm of the landing last thread >>12390699

>>12394570
At least HL-20 (and X-38) lives on through the Dream Chaser

>>12394785
I believe the HL design itself was not only inspired by, but was a direct descendent of the MiG-105

>>12394822
You'd be right

>>12394696
No, scrap value will not pay for a billion dollar spaceplane... but government contracts to snatch Chinese birds out of the sky and return them to Earth would. That was DoD's whole desire for the Shuttle.

>>12394836
>>12394696
if you're going to build a reusable spaceplane, it needs to have enough delta v to function as the upper stage of a reusable booster
hopefully you can just buy booster launches lmao

>>12394304
the hard part isn't getting 200km up, it's going 7 km/s sideways.

>>12394841
And then SpaceX builds a Shuttle style clamshell+arm+cockpit satellite repair/retrieval Starship and puts you out of business. The only way a traditional spaceplane beats that is for cargos that can't handle the 3G flip burn at landing, like fragile satellites or injured people.

Will starship get a Canadarm?

>>12394858
No, it'll get an American arm thanks to ITAR.

>>12394862
Chad Arm•Erica vs. the virgin Canadarm

>>12394704
The mach vapor is cool

>>12394871
Make Arm•Erica Grab Again

>>12394757
Damn that's pure falcon kino

>>12394822
Which was inspired by Dyna Soar and direct descendant of X-24A, and by proxy the HL-10

>believes space is real

I cant fucking believe the hop is NET 2 DAYS
WhAT happened it was supposed to be Q2 2021 bros, did we get too cocky 600hz bros? oh no no NO NO i don t want to suck elon's cock

>>12394935
boca chica is going to be scrub central

>hydrolox sucks bro it's so weak

>>12394937
I predict not only will the hop not scrub, it will happen exactly on time. And it will land perfectly first try. See you all monday

>>12394935
>2020
>he STILL thinks shitship isn't going to be BTFO by baSedLS

>>12394943
it will land in a perfect fireball
>>12394941
how very undense of you

>>12394944
>shitship
>not starshit
Come on.

>>12394941
>pic unrelated

>>12394941
where's the liquid oxygen?

thunderf00t says there's no life on venus, he proved it in a debate with a real scientist. so i guess we shouldnt go there to check. i think nasa and peter beck should cancel the venus missions, waste of money and time. thankful for thunderf00t to run the numbers before we fall into suck cost fallacy. king of the debunkers

>>12393945
that girl is hot, what's her name?

>>12394947
You wanna know how I know it won't crash in fire? Pic related. Nuff said

>>12395003
what is this and where is it from

>>12395001
the endless eight math problem

>>12395005
It's from the guys who developed X-Plane flight sim lmao
https://youtu.be/5xJkbCWVAHA

>>12395003
some dork that made an iPad app flight sim and put in a starship version of it

>>12395011
That dork created the best flight sim known to man until MSFS 2020 was released

>>12394927
>believes he is real

>>12395016
is dork derogatory?

>>12393945
Starship is getting cancelled for environmental reasons.

>>12393998
Yes and that's why he's getting cancelled right after Tr*mp is jailed.

>>12395000
I know right? I was reluctant to let my gf go on vacation with her work buddy, but then Thunderf00t debunked my concerns.

>>12395024
no?i agree he's still a dork. A special dork

>>12395007
i dont follow, i just want to kiss her or smell her

>>12395032
Is her work buddy's name Phil Mason?

>>12395047
Not sure, she doesn't want to tell me and I don't want to intrude.

>>12395049
Yeah that's smart, jealousy is super unattractive to women. She might not want to fuck him now, but if you question her faithfulness she will :^)

>>12394666
You can only improve performance if you left that room in there to begin with
If you are already close to optimal numbers then it’s not like you can magically double chamber pressure

>basically just repeates wikipedia with no rhyme reason or interesting addition to it
>Went to a shitty college and nonchalantly mentions his high grades there like if it he was being humble by not bringing up his achievement when in actuality is unimpressive as hell.
>wants to milk out sympathy by fixating on his speech disability which obviously doesnt impede his understanding, was obviously bullied to hell in high school but for being an obnoxious piece of shit and he thinks its because of this
>Avoids politics but literally everything he says is political support for the tamest version of left wing sjw imaginable. Oh it doesnt matter if were socialist or capitalist technology will fix all, YES ITDOESMATTERYOUFATFUCK
>Fucking can't go 2 seconds without mentioning he was in the military like if it made it look like this interesting and sort of macho man when in reality he's just like any other poor nigger who went to wageslave for the us army for college education and was probably refered to as lispy mcfat tits by his teammates and didnt even get buff while there
>cringely parades his "wife" who is clearly targeting him for his youtube money like if he suddenly stopped being an undesirable weirdo at age 35 (clearly he was a virgin before meeting her) when in reality what will happen is she will divorce her once shes pregnant with a real man and he will have to open two more youtube channels to raise someone elses children
>acts as if he was this sort of superior educatedly gentleman because their parents were so clinically retarded as to name their children after famous people, whenever he has to quote an author/source he uses the most uninspiring piece of shit taht a popsci writer would be afraid to quote for fear of appearing too unoriginal, he has the dullest blandest piece of shit books in display. He quotes the shitty objectively bad writer Larry Niven like if he was some sort of sci fi connoseur for naming someone other than Asimov.

did i forget something?

>>12395067
The hypothetical assumes improvement. I'm wondering if Blue's improvements would pass along to ULA, effectively improving Vulcan's performance. I assume yes, but only because it'd be cheaper to maintain a single BE-4 line than a ULA one vs Blue one

>>12395070
tldr. imagine being this obsessed

>>12395003
The sheer
S T A N C E

>>12395070
have you been watching his streams or something? that's not healthy

>>12395073
I would assume they would simply not upgrade their engine unless they are paid to do so, like every other old space operation

>>12395079
yes, and trying to make sense of it

>>12395009
this guy is incredibly based and goofy

>>12395077
>lets ignore bad stuff and let it take over the world because if you care to denounce wrongnes youre "obsessed"

>>12395070
You left off repeating obvious facts at length
>If you double the radius of the o'neill cylinder, while leaving the length unchanged, the volume quadruples
>if you TRIPLE the radius, the volume goes up by a factor of 6
>if you quadruple the radius, the volume goes up by a factor of 8
Thank you Isaac, we get it.

>>12395070
literally who

>>12395070
Isn't he the one who's into shit eating? I can't remember which space e-celeb but I know for a fact one of them loves fecal play

>>12395070
Now kiss

>>12395082
you should stop

>>12395070
A lot of the esoteric sci fi stuff he discusses is kind of retarded too

>look at all this crazy shit you can do with infinite free materials, time and energy

Ok I guess?

>>12395086
At no point will anyone make an O’Neil cylinder anyways

>>12395096
It's also just machinery. He doesn't know enough about people to envision any sort of future society.

Would a $200,000 price ticket stop you from going to Mars?

>>12395096
esoteric is extremely generous for a character like him, hes just one of many fat youtubers who realized which random sounds get him money, a sad product of evolution
>>12395090
if thats a made up difamation thing its well deserved

>>12395095
you literally dont know what youre saying

>>12395000
Link to the "debate" lmao-
https://youtu.be/SEilOUvxlvg

the funny thing is the paper doesnt say it was aliens, it just ruled out all other known phosphine generation processes. since life has not been ruled out it stands as a possibility, equally with some unknown abiotic process. We should go there and find out instead of debating clickbait popsci articles that reported the discovery as "ALIENS FOUND"

>>12395099
depends, what happens if i take out a loan and i cant pay it back while im on mars?

>>12395099
yes I'm poor
>>12395102
you should stop wasting time on cringe youtubers and instead waste time here with us
post pictures of Starship

>>12395090
lmao wtf? you could post this about anyone. just "speculation" hahaha

>>12395099
I'd max out my globohomo earth-side credit cards, and default on the loan once i'm on Mars.

>>12395106
Debt slaver

>>12395097
or terraform Mars!

>>12395103
The paper authors were really pushing the alien angle hard though, with no real basis.

>>12395106
>>12395109
Deportation

>>12395111
((they)) won't be able to reach me

>>12395107
>you should stop wasting time on cringe youtubers and instead waste time here with us
based

>>12395086
but wait what happens if we sixtuple it? doeos it go up by a factor of six?
>>12395070

>>12395106
Inconvenient for you airlock de pressurization.

>>12395114
but life does make phosphine. it's the only known process they couldnt rule out. how can you argue harder for an unknown process without evidence?

>>12395070
pic of his wife, im not good looking but im better than that at least, i wnat to know what i can reasonably expect

>>12395099
I'm 24 and my net worth recently passed 100k, so I think by the time tickets are actually being offered to Mars and the Moon, I'll be fine.

>>12395123
to add, my point is life does exist and does create phosphine. it's the only real lead short of sending a probe to look.

as a sidenote they def should talk up the alien angle, it's the reason we've been farting around mars for decades. venus gets no fucking love, and if this tiny circumstantial evidence can convince soneone to send a probe we shouldnt care about the reasons

>>12395126
>my net worth
i think you mean 60k savings plus 40k tesla shares

>>12395115
Earth laws don't apply to Mars

>>12395121
Have to watch the video to find out.

>>12395123
The way the refute vulcanism is flimsy at best.

>>12395137
It's actually the other way around

>>12395123
There's a lot of things that can go unexpected when working with one lone sample from a planet millions of km away and figuring out a grandiloquent conclussion from it.

remember that less than 30 years ago scientists were convinced that there was no moon on the water no no no, forbidden to say it, donmt say it, youre wrong and im right bnecause im mr scientist, even tough the lunar landers found water but if you mentioned it you were a conspiracy nut.

mfw i literally known state tier of the art advanced scientifica knowledge (that there was water on the moon) before the mainstream west literally only because im not a slave and i have critical thinking.

>>12395123
current scientific consensus is that they may have jumped the gun on detecting phosphine
we'll need to wait for more observations

>>12395152
consensus is shit, its evil people telling you what to think, objective rationality is only right wrong once and forever.

a smart caveman could have figured out gravity, you dont need societys permission

the phosphene on venus is clearly wrong, theres no life there timestamp this, use your brain stop pretending as if the laws of physics can be determined by your feelings

>>12394644
Can't honk if you never fire it.

>>12395155
dumb nigger
anyway twelfth order polynomials lmao

>>12395150
>>12395152
Exactly. But we shouldn't go to Venus, we just don't have enough evidence that anything interesting is out there. Money spent on a Venus probe would be better spent on climate science anyway

>>12395167
sorry anon, too late, we're already going

>>12395168
shut the fuck up venus kuck

>>12395171
we've got to beat the russians

>>12395173
Russia's days in space are basically done. The country won't even survive this decade.

>>12394832
BOR-2 (1969)

>>12395167
>Money spent on a Venus probe would be better spent on climate science anyway
Donald Trump is going to win on Dec 14 and there is nothing you can do about it other than dilate.

>>12395181
X-23 (1966)

>>12395150
>moon on the water
if you must take drugs please take better ones theyre absolutely destroying you

>>12395183
Fuckdammit, Sean!

>>12394542
They've run Raptors above 300 bar for minutes at a time

>Huh? Now even CASIC, a defence contractor/missile maker and developer of solid rockets, is working on methalox engines. This is the Mingfeng-1 engine, around 10 tons of thrust
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1332588465704329217

Why is everyone getting in on the methalox game?

>>12395137
anon do you not know what net worth means

>>12394312
Starlink doesn't have lasers yet. The Starlink team said it's going to be awhile since it's too difficult.
>We did have an exciting flight test earlier this year with prototype space lasers on two Starlink satellites that managed to transmit gigabytes of data. But bringing down the cost of the space lasers and producing a lot of them fast is a really hard problem that the team is still working on.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/jybmgn/we_are_the_starlink_team_ask_us_anything/

>>12395024
we have d-word pass

>>12395292
>Why is everyone getting in on the methalox game?
sooty exhaust is bad optics
we're headed for a clean climate-science based future, anon, and part of that reality involves using only certain fuels because they look less dirty

>>12395335
look less dirty or are actually less dirty?

>>12395347
look less dirty
actually being less dirty is something only smelly nerds want and doesn't really matter
the elimination of soot, visible fumes, smoke in general, or any kind of visible exhaust is the future
the secret to getting what you want is pandering to the midwit

this completely sound logic is also why the SRB is the patrician's choice, because fuck normies

>5 years to hop
The absolute state of Europe

>>12395003
>>12395009
Great to see incredibly smart people who are able to explain things very simply. This guy needs more views.

>>12395112
in contrast to o neill cylinders, terraforming would actually make sense

>>12394568
>>12395261
fucking nice. The Raptor is such a fucking cool engine. Wonder if they'll ever sell the thing to others? I mean if they really do achieve all their goals its basically going to make most other engines irrelevant.

>>12395292
it looks cool.

>>12395292
The most plentiful gas there is, seemingly easy to tame now that more and more operators have working engines.
And you have no idea how much of this gas we have to spare as a by-product of drilling for oil, be it by fracking, jacking or deep sea drilling. We're fucking inundated with the shit. And then there's methane from other sources.

>>12395368
Chinese rockets already look cool

>>12395358
Are we now shamelessly copying like filthy chinks?

>>12395392
Since when did Arianespace do anything that was original?

>>12395401
Arianne 5 looks original

>>12395392
We're not shameless enough if you ask me

>>12395403
The tech behind it is anything but.

>>12395358
>>12395392
I'm not even convinced that it's a good use of resources. In order to be worth it their rocket would have to be better than the F9 in some areas or at least specialize in a niche that it doesn't. Its 2nd stage aside the F9 is pretty optimized and mature at this point so one-upping it is not an easy task.

>>12395408
Arianespace is practically a welfare project for the various aerospace companies operating in Europe. It's more to keep the companies alive than anything else. Why else would for instance two Norwegian aerospace companies both be delivering solid parts when one of them could have done the same? The answer is because there are two aerospace companies in Norway and they both specialize in solids and hybrids, we do make some pretty badass missiles here.

It's not about good use of resources, it's about keeping the light on.

>>12395416
>it's about keeping the light on
But why didn't they copy SLS then?

>>12395420
>SLS
Why the fuck would they do that? That's the opposite of keeping the light on, that's throwing money down an endless pit.

>>12395408
I mean the merlin is a pretty insane booster engine. Does the ESA even have an engine that could be viable in a reusable rocket? Just look at this shit: https://twitter.com/flightclubio/status/1330954332112449537 . I'm really not sure if any of these oldspace entities can pull it off. SpaceX makes it look easy but it's clearly not.

>>12395416
I get the notion of supporting local industries, and I'm sure that Europe wants to retain its capabilities at least, but at the same time it strikes me as damn near sacrilegious to reduce space to economic support

>>12395430
>it strikes me as damn near sacrilegious to reduce space to economic support
Every single NASA rocket has done it the same way until SpaceX came along. ULA is continuing in the same vein, Blue Origin discovered government pork and is about to grow fat and complacent on BE-4.

>>12395426
still cheaper than the staurn v

>>12395430
bigger image

>>12395435
Are you so sure about that? Saturn V flew many times and produced results.
SLS is probably not flying until fucking 2030 if it's flying at all.

>>12395426
>Why the fuck would they do that?
>>12395437
>not flying until fucking 2030 if it's flying at all

If you want a milk cow, the SLS is the perfect funding device. It doesn't even need to fly. Which is good, since cows can't fly.

>>12395405
How so? I'm completely unfamiliar with Ariane's development

>>12395449
Milking a cow is not the same as keeping the light on. SLS is a propaganda device more than it's a rocket.

>>12395451
Solid boosters and hydromeme sustainer ring a bell? That's shittle tech. "Le americains are doing ze hydroloxe, oui? Ve must copy zem immediatemon!"

>>12395437
>SLS is probably not flying until fucking 2030
Next year, Artemis 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G9h5MQ9lAU

>>12395453
I thought you meant the actual technology, not the broad concepts. You can hardly say using two SRB's is copying another rocket that's also used two SRB's before. It's like >>12395358, at some point you have to admit that there are only so many ways of doing things.

>>12395465
That F9 copy shit is also using "broad concepts" if we're going down that road, because it's not using SpaceX tech or software.
But it is trying to recreate what SpaceX did with F9 just like Arianespace did with hydromeme and boosters.

>>12395358
BRuh wtF
it took SpaceX less than a year to hop Starhopper, and another year to hop Starship SN5

>>12395460

>>12395437
>results
We learned more through r&d than we did by physically setting foot upon the moon. Man walking on the moon was just the cherry on top.

>>12395467
>That F9 copy shit is also using "broad concepts" if we're going down that road
Well no shit, that's how you land first stages, any powered booster landing is going to look like it's copying F9. But that's what I mean, there's not many other ways you can do it. Don't get me wrong, I'm no ESA apologist but all reusable rockets are going down that path, because it works. With all due credits to SpaceX, it seems odd to me to go ''Bruh they're just copying SpaceX'' every time a new reusable concept appears.

... is the starhopper coming to kill me?

>>12395529
Yes.

So my uncle works at the FAA and he tells me no way they permit sn8 to fly unless they add more safety.
That's why there hasn't been a NOTAM yet

>>12395505
Followers don't get to be offended when they're said to be copying the leader, because they are. Deal with it.

>>12395031
what if he drops a rocket on your house? you know he lurks here and i don't think he'll be happy

>>12395552
No he doesn't, either that or he's too low on the social ladder to know what's what

>>12395070
not really

>>12395099
nope, not even close

>>12395354
they actually are less dirty because they leave less soot in the engines, which is bad for reusability anon

>>12395354
>the secret to getting what you want is pandering to the midwit
Ironic coming from a midwit post

>>12394836
> snatch Chinese birds out of the sky and return them to Earth

Good thing they have their own X-37B now

>>12394028
> there's one real tragedy of the BLM movement
Yeah it's definitely not the random lynching of people in the street.

>>12395597
>not being able to spot a shitpost
ngmi

>>12395552
> why would someone do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?
They will just strap some safety to the fairing anyway.

>>12395152
Modern academia is truly fucked. They all clamber for attention and grants like drug addled hobos and fuck up constantly by doing so. Then they wonder why no one respects them.

>>12395557
Like I said I'm not defending ESA nor am I saying their plans or original. I just don't see why one would act surprised at the next generation of reusables all looking the same

>>12395086
2^2 = 4
3^2 = 9
4^2 = 16
You must know mathematics to post here. Volume is area of the base times height.

>>12395167
We should launch people like you on surplus minutemen so you can check the climate first hand.

>>12395467
>>12395505
gettin some major déjà vu with these two posts

>>12395552
>my uncle at the FAA just flew over my house

>>12395669
Welcome to 4chan, every post is a repost of a repost of a repost of a repost.

>>12395167
*climate studies

>>12395552
Elon is actually my daddy, and he told that you're a massive fucking nigger who should neck himself.

>>12395552
just cover the whole thin in osha lights and launch at night for dramatic effect

嫦娥五号 got in the moon orbit.

北京时间11月28日20时58分,嫦娥五号探测器经过约112小时奔月飞行,在距月面约400公里处成功实施3000牛发动机点火,约17分钟后,发动机正常关机。根据实时遥测数据监视判断,嫦娥五号探测器近月制动正常,顺利进入环月轨道。

近月制动是月球探测器飞行过程中关键的轨道控制之一。高速飞行的探测器在靠近月球时,实施“刹车”制动,目的是使其相对速度低于月球逃逸速度,从而被月球引力捕获。

嫦娥五号探测器在地月转移过程中经历了2次轨道修正,达到预期目标。后续,嫦娥五号探测器将调整环月轨道高度和倾角,着陆器和上升器组合体将择机与轨道器和返回器组合体分离,实施月球正面软着陆,按计划开展月面自动采样等工作。

>>12395717
source: just trust us, capitalist

Follow the Science

https://youtu.be/Ta0bnutAVLc

.

>>12395070

IA's channel has many problems but this post is incredibly pathetic.

>>12395717
ok chang

>>12395775
TRASH

>>12395767
Ok isaac

>>12395767
Fatty McFatFat :)

>>12395736
You do realize there's fucking thousands of amateur sat watchers across the planet? They find fucking spy satellites.
American cope regarding China is hilarious to watch. You cunts are laughably insecure and think no one sees through it.

I noticed this diagram of a Super Heavy with what appear to be Falcon legs in the newest NSF video. Has anyone ever taken higher-res pictures of this?

>>12395849
DIE DIE DIE DIE LEAVE SFG NO ONE WANT YOU CHINKY GET OUT GET OUT KILL KILL KILL GET THE BUG SPRAY FUCK

>>12395150
> moon on the water
> i literally known state tier of the art advanced scientifica knowledge
> mfw (with no image reaction)
double digits as fuck

>>12395856
Great comeback mate. Really reacting well to being called out as insecure.
I'm whiter than you'll ever be little one.

>>12395850
design was thrown out ages ago

>>12395404
This. A Chinese person likened copying western tech to learning the piano. You start by playing other peoples' music to develop skill before making your own.

>>12395106
>>12395109
https://youtu.be/mPTCq3LiZSE

>>12395857
and yet, smarter than you

current Starship statuses

>>12395856
Nobody should be giving faggy larpers this much attention anon.

>>12395656
Who's surprised?

>>12395908
ugh

>>12395908
lmao, starshit will never fly

>>12395922
we're calling it shitstar now

>>12395908
i have a deep hatred for infographics. i think it's because they make dumb people feel smart

>>12395934
>picture with words, Grug angered

>>12395935
i'm sorry retard, i forgot to translate it for you. i have a deep hatred for pictures with words. i think it's because they make dumb people (like you) feel smart

Chinese rockets will never carry a living human being beyond LEO lmao

>>12395942
>enraged, Grug shouts at the picture and the accompanying words, his guttural cry echoing off the cave walls and out into the prehistoric night

>>12395103
how can one thunderous f00t be so based bros? massive smackdown on venus peenuses. mars is the way, and even phillip mason knows that

>>12395922
>but sls will guise

>>12395954
Yah, pretty much. There's nothing that can slow SLS down at this point, it has massive momentum. You must be a fool to deny

>>12395934
It's not meant to make you feel smart. It's supposed to be an easy way to see information

>>12395958
>it has massive momentum
only a decade late, and several times over the budget

>>12394369
Hydrogen is underperforming in D-IV.

>>12395944
>"This will be the end of China accession", says increasingly nervous neocon for the seventh time this year.

>>12394322
even worse, the Angara 5 test launch is now NLT Nov 11. Which means Putin took notice, and now heads will roll if there are any more delays.

Russia is suffering these days, what with five Glonass navsats failing at once, and only able to launch two replacements this year.

>>12395958
>There's nothing that can slow SLS down at this point
>Boeing, NASA getting ready for SLS Core Stage Green Run campaign ahead of Stennis arrival
>December 14, 2019

>>12395972
cringe

>>12395972
>>12395972
>"This will be the beginning of China accession", says increasingly nervous larping chicom as Starship flies over his house

>>12393984
Why don't they give actual wings to the starship so that it can glide back down instead of doing that stupid maneuver that will never work

>>12395975
Hello SpaceX stan, I hope you will enjoy what I like to call our "November surprise"

Your precious SN8 is doomed

>>12395972
isnt 4chan banned in china because of porn? someone post the copypasta

>>12395982
>November surprise
Oh, I know this one! It's when you miss the date after slipping for the fourth time lmao

>>12395981
it already has worked on mini starship, where have you been

>>12395986
>where you blow raptor innards out your ass

>>12395978
Starship don't matter in the long run. What matter is a nation industrial capacity and technical skills, both which are collapsing in the land of the """"free"""" for quite a while and constantly increasing amongst the chinamen.

>>12395981
because wings weigh a lot, and if you can do that kind of maneuver, which most likely will work since they've had a bit of practice with Falcon 9

>>12395989
What mini starship?

>>12395993
>not-up-to-date information
same as it ever was

>>12395994
dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. asian american, please.

>>12395996
>because wings weigh a lot
Ok let me redesign this airbus a380
I'll save on weight by removing the wings

>>12395993
It sure is nice being able to fire and replace engines in testing instead of having to stop all work for two years because you have a stuck valve in a museum piece that costs as much as an F35 lmao
>>12395994
>Starship don't matter in the long run
mega chicope

>>12396005
airbus a380 is an airplane, starship is not this really isn't that complicated

>>12396007
>two years development in boca chica
>nothing to show for
>no 20km hops
>no booster
>no water landings
>shortfall of gravitas missing in action
yeah, good luck SpaceX stan, you'll need it

>>12395996
Not just the wings but all the shit that goes with a horizontal landing. Much more dry mass efficient to do a tail landing.

>>12395292
I know, right? The crazy thing is that methane was never seriously looked at in the entire history of the Space Age. If you read "Ignition!", they researched literally every other possible rocket fuel/oxidizer combination, but plain-old methane is never mentioned. And suddenly everybody is trying it.

>>12396010
a380 is not a fucking airplane, it's a capsule. retard

>>12395982
>stan
Use English words or get the fuck out.

>>12395975
>There's nothing that can slow SLS down at this point
can't slow down something that's not moving

>>12396014
>nothing to show for
other than 10 test articles but let's ignore those :^)
>no water landings
???
Thank god it's only taken 2 years, imagine taking a decade to build one tank

>>12396014
>9 years of development
>20 billion dollars of funding
>hasn't even fired its engines

>>12396010
Starship is absolutely a plane, even the X-plane flight sim guy admitted it

>>12395182
take your meds schizo

>>12396028
wrong, all of those engines flew on shuttle. who's the dumbass now? i'll give you a hint. you ;)

>>12396023
look at that magnificent capsule :)

>>12395978
What the fuck are you talking about?
Chinas accession began in the 70's

>>12396033
Imagine using museum articles to boost your shitty excuse of a rocket

>>12395944
indeed, they will only carry Chinese

>>12396039
bigot

>>12396033
>I've never fucked my wife, but her boyfriend did and that's just as good, right?

>>12396007
Starship won't matter for the same reason the Little Willie and Wright Flyer didn't. It is a crux of technical skill and engineering, but it will be quickly replaced by better iterations within a decade of being first introduced because of its experimental nature. What matter is the capacity to remain advancing the overall development loop to create improved designs, which depend on the industrial and educational health of the country.

>>12396046
I prefer making fun of the SLS guy, at least he doesn't actually believe it. This is actual cope.

>>12396038
At least SMME actually works, unlike honking raptor that shids molten turbopump. Really nasty, and disrespectful

>>12396045
You should keep that to yourself, it's embarrassing to others who have to read your fantasies

>>12395714
>discoship
I can get behind that. What song would it play?

>>12396051
the RS-25 first fired 40 years ago, and it took over a decade to develop

>>12396049
>This is actual cope.
Ask me again in 50 years and let's see who is coping

>>12396057
Sorry rocket cuck, your engines are old and busted. You will never have the satisfaction of blowing out her O ring seals for the first time and her valves clam up at the sight of you. It will never be the same again.

>>12396060
Yes, tried and true engine. Still the king of all rocket engines. Most efficient rocket engine ever made and ever will be

>>12396046
I ge twhat you mean, but Starship isn't Wright Flyer
Starship is more like Boeing 707

>>12396062
>in 50 years
During the interregnum lmao

>>12396065
It also costs 64 million dollars, which is more that a full falcon heavy when reused.

>>12396076
*146 million

>>12396065
>tried and true engine
Can't try it though
>Most efficient rocket engine ever made
That's the RL10 for chem rockets and some who xenon thruster overall but sure

>>12396076
>1 engine costs as much as three rockets stuck together
In what realm can other companies even compete

>>12396069
>Starship is more like Boeing 707
Not really. Starship is build on highly untested tech and reliant on tapping on a market that no one knows if it actually exists to actually make its money back. Beyond that, I think Musk himself said that Starship is meant to be phased out relatively fast for what is basically a bigger, 'roided up version once it gets going.

the cope in here from spacex stans really amazes me. they all crawl out of the woodwork when someone doesnt blindly suck starship cock. really embarrassing

>>12396085
so it's a 737 MAX

>>12396085
>tapping on a market that no one knows if it actually exists
The virgin chicom hedger. "This is barely a start, just the wright flyer... but maybe it'll be too much!" You can't decide whether it's too little or too much but you're sure you're unsure. Pitiful.

>>12396094
It's nice that your shitposts all contain the same calling card for easy identification. Happy fishing fren.

Do you guys think Launcher will win small launch?

>>12395529
No. He is the ultimate life form.

>>12396094
I didn't give you permission to stop posting SLS cope, fucktoy

>>12396094
Why don't you post the "reminder that SLS will reach orbit before starship" again? That'll get them

>>12396097
A wild Texas Tank Watcher crawls out of the wood work! Hello, tell me, is it venting as we speak haha

>>12396111
that's a different anon, i'm against pedo/anime-posting

>>12396115
I'm venting as I type.

>>12396115
Welcome, fellow Michoud Tank Watchers!

>>12396121
Kek

>>12396119
Normally I'd be calling you out as pic related, but that no anime stance is based.

I wish SLS had some more positive niches, like how ULA can differentiate from SpaceX

>Hard in the Rocket Fuel
>Orbital Hoe Depot
>The Final Countdown (John King cover)
>Gravity of My Balls
>Aerogel (extra explicit)
>Stop! Rocket Time!

>>12396143
>John King
Meant Jack King

>>12396019
that's super interesting. I've read halfway through Ignition, recently finished chapter on peroxide. they must have messed with methane, but were blinded performance of hydrogen or sonething, right? must not have been notable

Space planes are the future
Down with the rocket lobby!

>>12396132
Technically it still does. Out of the ultra heavy rockets, it's the farthest along its development. The only thing standing in its way is that the contractors tasked in building it are motivated to take as long as possible to finish it.

>>12396161
>its niche is that it can launch tomorrow
>editor's note: it cannot launch tomorrow

>>12396164

>>12396164
it sucks. we didnt even need a green run. Jim entertained the idea skipping it altogether. they could've just launched Artemis-1 this year, it's unmanned anyway

>>12396171
That would've been a cool way to end a lame year

>>12395841
>>12395846

Predictable. Seriously, when did /sfg/ became /v/ lite with so much inane bullshit?

>>12396085
it's not a perfect analogy, but I don't think it's a bad one
>build on highly untested tech
turbofans weren't exactly untested, but they sure were barely off the drawing board
before it, they were still making planes with piston engines
>reliant on tapping on a market that no one knows if it actually exists
there wasn't really market for millions of passengers in 1950's either
most airports were not airports, but rather airfields at the time
and it took like 10 years until civilian market exceeded military contracts
>Beyond that, I think Musk himself said that Starship is meant to be phased out relatively fast for what is basically a bigger, 'roided up version once it gets going.
something more like 747, one could say

>>12396187
just make one interesting episode you piece of shit, and stop saying you were in the army. Tell you what, make an episode on SLS vs STARSHIP and we might forgive you

>>12395453
>"Le americains are doing ze hydroloxe, oui? Ve must copy zem immediatemon!"
it's kinda amazing how many people copied the shuttle's flawed approach. Fortunately I think the "massive hydromeme 1st stage" is finally dead in the water

>>12396203

Cool. Am I supposed to start calling you a tranny now so I can also assume you are someone that you aren't?