/sci/ - Science & Math

this is a good thread

>>12390028
Thanks anon I appreciate it. I worked hard for this thread bringing American jobs back to American soil.

this is the thread

make the launch mount as big as you can, make the launch mount bigger

>tfw I want the office to reopen so I can go here and LARP as a Martian colonist while I program instead of being at home

>>12390017
>SN9 stacked
Why is no one talking about this?

>>12390054
I mean, it was news when they stacked SN8 at the pad
now they stacked SN9 in the hangar which is how we all expected it to be done

So it looks like the SRB fission torch was considered in the 50s.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist2.php#fizzer

>>12390017
Based thread.

>>12390074
oh fuck, clicking

>>12390081
>that website layout

>>12390099
anon, it's projectrho, it's always been like that
have you never been?

>>12390053
someone edit a face onto it

>>12390100
Based and Winchell-Chung pilled

>>12390100
I’ll try to enjoy it again later if you say so fren.

>>12390017
Will Starlink and other similar projects ruin the prospect of space travel in the future?

>>12390123
no
Starlink in particular, even if it goes absolutely catastrophically worse case Kessler rolling in his grave wrong (which I don't think it can) will only close off space for like five years

>>12390123
Yeah that’s why the premier spaceflight company is putting it in place.

?????

>>12390114
It's the unofficial /sfg/ Bible, anon. Jeff Greason, the giant nerd who made the Plasma Magnet Sail presentation at TVIW, backs the site on Patreon.

>>12390136
Okay. What are some of the more interesting articles?

>>12390142
uhhhhhhhhh just start from the home page

>>12390040
>500-1000m
>Bring it into LEO
Easier said than done

I just don't get it. Time and time again NASA has defined its position in the market as a client of launch services, and yet here they are again, caught red handed subsidizing SpaceX's research on orbital cryogenic nozzles.

Fully consumable metallic silicon solid boosters. The big thing at the bottom is just a liquid oxygen tank and it glides back down with inflatable wings (leftover oxygen is used for that). The boosters themselves turn into sand as they're burning.

>>12390168
Just have it collide with Earth on a controller trajectory. Plenty NEOs to dig up canals and provide trillions worth of minerals (current value that is). I remember there being a proposal for this in the 50s/60s but can't find it.

>>12390040
>>12390168
Yeah at that altitude atmospheric drag will deorbit it. Park it at L2 and let the Gateway act as a mining camp.

>>12390176
some sort of nitrided titanium coating for the upper stage?

>>12390168
the moon can help a lot in bringing it down to ~500km, but we can't use the atmosphere to slow down, sine that would risk breaking the asteroid apart from overheating

The exterior is all made of gold because it needs to reflect all the heat from the sun (it's for missions to Mercury). it's this big because it has to lift its own weight in gold, which also serves as an ablative heat shield during reentry

fucking gorgeous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6id_d3MLh8

Fuck Boing

>>12390053
>real time
Seriously? That’s pretty impressive.

>>12390208
That is a cursed image

>>12390213
yeah, they move surprisingly quickly

>>12390123
nah. All those space trash graphics are misleading because they're not to scale. For instance the dots in this image are WAAAAYYY too big. There's a lot of room up there and satellites are small

>>12390198
baller

>>12390243
how big would each satellite need to be to match the orange dots

>>12390176
What is the advantage

>>12390248
over a kilometer across

>>12390248
The size of a medium sized city

>>12390249
Well for one, silicon is a lot more abundant than fuels like hydrogen. Just electrolyze sand

>>12390259
That competelly inverts for ISRU.

>>12390168
Yes, I'd say you'd need a few hundred m/s of delta V just to set up an asteroid for a gravitational capture into a long lived orbit using the Moon's gravity for an assist.

>>12390186
>>12390188
>>12390195
You guys don't get it, a 500 to 1000 m diameter asteroid made of highly porous rocks would have a density of ~1.5 tons per cubic meter and contain between 65,400,000 and 524,000,000 cubic meters of material. That's a mass of between ~100,000,000 tons and ~800,000,000 tons of material. To impart a delta V of 100 m/s to such an object using an ion propulsion system with an Isp of 10,000 would require about one million tons of xenon gas. That aint gonna happen.

>>12390248
Looks like about 50 km diameter
Remember, Earth has a diameter of 12,000 km.

>>12390268
A 30m plasma magnet sail could brake it by 6kN against the solar wind as long as current was supplied.

>>12390259
Hydrogen is hyper abundant literally everywhere except our Moon, Venus, and Mercury (asteroids don't count because they're too easy to escape from). Even on Mars there's easily enough water ice available to rely on it. Even if there weren't, and Mars were also extremely dry, Mars also happens to have a Co2 atmosphere, which means carbon monoxide rockets are an option.
You're probably memeing, but really your silicon rocket idea is some retarded shit for reasons WAY beyond just ISRU prospects.

>>12390268
Good job, I always want to talk shit on these "concepts" but I'm too lazy to run numbers. You also can't treat that as a rigid mass you can just 'push' around, anyway. Utilizing gravitational attraction is the preferred method for asteroid redirection, but that has a long lead time and you only need to get it to miss its target, not pull it into an orbit. Most likely the most practical thing for asteroid mining would simply be to do the pre-processing on site and ship refined or highly concentrated material away.

>>12390270
Yeah, but remember that 6 kN applied to 100,000,000 tons produces an acceleration of 6x10^-8 m/s^2, or 0.00006 mm/s^2 or ~5.184 mm/day. To exert a delta V of 100 m/s you're looking at 53 years of continuous acceleration. A plasma magnet sail is probably your best option, sure, but you're gonna need a beefy-ass sail.

>>12390268
what about carbon dioxide liberated off of the asteroid out of some sort of plasma thruster

>>12390283
>Most likely the most practical thing for asteroid mining would simply be to do the pre-processing on site and ship refined or highly concentrated material away.
Yep, 100%. This is also how asteroid colonization is going to work, we will basically end up with swarms of habitats moseying from one asteroid to another scraping up the stuff they need as they need it, which will be often for industrial habitats that are building new habitats, and very seldom for completed habitats that are a part of a loose cluster of stations that trade stuff among each other. It's like a baby version of what will eventually grow into Dyson swarm levels of orbital colonization.

>>12390293
If you're still getting 10,000 Isp, then you still need a million tons of CO2. If you're getting less, which is almost guaranteed, then you need significantly more. Anyway, any propellant driven option is going to be much less feasible than using a big magnetic sail. Even fusion rockets wouldn't be as effective, because plasma sails by comparison use zero propellant.

>>12390277
US5438824A

>>12390017

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/bitstream/handle/1773/20069/weber_dissertation.pdf?sequence=1
>50kW plasma thruster
>1N thrust @ 1kHz
>5kg
>quartz chamber, no electrodes
>1500-4000 Isp
>runs on cheapass propellants like N2, CO2, water
>no cryogenics needed
>designed to scale up to 1MW
GUYS
THIS IS IT
THIS IS THE THRUSTER

does anyone know how BO's BE-3U compares to the RL10? I mean the RL10 is so good I'm not sure why Blue Origin is making another open expander cycle hydrolox engine (I think the RL10 is open?)

>>12390017
I had a bad dream that SN8 static fired then exploded and it honestly made me scared as hell

>>12390403
>50kW for 1N
Thats...actually abnormally bad for a plasma rocket.

>>12390403
>50 kW/N
no thanks

>>12390407
Can the RL-10 throttle and relight enough for a reusable lander? As an expendable engine it's bumping uglies with the theoretical max hydrolox Isp so that can't be why.

>>12390403
That's what's right about it, what's wrong with it? Cursory search suggests it's been in R&D in some form since 2009, was there a recent breakthrough or is something holding it back?

this looks so silly

>>12390414
Yes. CECE was a series of RL10s that could throttle to 10% thrust and restart dozens of times

>>12390412
>>12390413
It's 1mN-s per pulse from a shitty academic test unit, and if you cycle it twice as fast that doubles to 2N/50kW. It also gets more efficient as it scales up.

>>12390420
intredasting

>>12390414
>reusable lander
I was talking specifically about the BE-3U, which is to power New Glenn's expendable 2nd stage. Should have specified that.

>>12390422
give me an actual W/N figure

>>12390420
RL10 is the peak of hydrogen thrusters, too bad it's so expensive. BO's second stage is supposed to use the same cycle, hopefully they get it right.

>>12390427
>didn't look at the context to realize that's what started the whole conversation
oops

>>12390424
the BE-3U has one advantage over the RL-10: it's crazy powerful, more like the J-2 than the RL-10
J-2X: 1307 kN
BE-3U: 710 kN
RL10: 110 kN

>>12390429
this really liberates my martyte

>>12390427
incorrect, the BE-3U is using an open dual expander, RL10 uses a closed fuel expander
closed dual expanders are/would be peak rocket engine cycle, right up there with FFSC (closed dual expander is for smaller engines than FFSC)

>>12390438
This. The USA lacks a powerful Hydrolox engine that could work as an upper stage. RL10 is great but anemic

>>12390456
if the RS25 had been designed properly it would have been a great upper stage engine
there's also that Samus engine from whoever that's a closed cycle upper stage engine with enough oomph to do real work

>>12390426
This more recent paper puts the upper bound for an ELF thruster at 0.1N/kW.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stephen_Bathgate/publication/317700959_Electrodeless_plasma_thrusters_for_spacecraft_A_review/links/5b7ac05492851c1e12227615/Electrodeless-plasma-thrusters-for-spacecraft-A-review.pdf

>>12390469
>10 kW/N
meeehhhhh

>>12390475
Again, dry engine mass is 5kg for a 100kW class thruster, and will be less than 10x that for a 1MW class thruster. Add in clustering ability and water propellant - you can have exceptionally low dry mass on a ship with a compact fission reactor. That gets you the possibility of brachistochrones at 0.01g.

I see you, anon

>>12390446
Going closed would limit power output which probably makes open dual expander a better compromise with reasonable thrust and high ISP. Too bad it's married to an expendable stage, it would be pretty interesting married to a fully reusable vehicle.

>>12390505
yeah, dual expander would be limited to somewhere around the 130 kN of the RL10

>>12390076

>>12390500
>Adapt it to Starship
>It’s just a regular old Starship
Lmao

>>12390539
he's been posting about it here, he's fucked in the head and doesn't understand the point of Starship

>>12390500
Oh shit I've had this idea before. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

>>12390553
or maybe more than one person thought of this bullshit, I guess
you're both retarded

>>12390555
A ferry system would have many advantages as a shuttle to Mars and could be built by only a few starship launches. It’s not that retarded

>>12390560
yes it is
the entire point of starship is nonpropulsive entry (aerobraking) into Mars' atmosphere, and direct (impulsive hohmann or similar) transfer burns
both of which are eliminated by using an ion propulsion ferry to slowboat to Mars

>>12390469
0.1N/kW doesn't sound bad at all to me. I like Momentus' electrodeless microwave engines and they put out about that but at 600-700 ISP (water), if this gets significantly more ISP at the same thrust that sounds great.

>>12390564
It works fine if your ferry is between L2 and Deimos. Trip time is like a month.

>>12390566
It's not bad for small craft, especially if solar films start being used for space to reduce the weight of solar powered spacecraft.
For seriously large plasma rockets of the future you're going to need more oomph since all that power generating weight is going to have to be dragged around long distances.

>>12390597
anon please

I guess I'll get the GI Geissele. the m84 isn't ambi and the other geissele's are too big

>>12390641
just buy Karl's WWSD rifle bro

whoops wrong thread lmao

>>12390463
interesting. I hadn't heard about these guys until now: https://www.ursamajortechnologies.com/engines
>Samus is a fuel-rich staged combustion upper-stage propulsion solution.

>>12390626
Obviously that's for a pure passenger ferry with Starships at each end. You only need ~5mm/s^2 acceleration, which you can do with solar panels and the right plasma thrusters.

>>12390617
For increasing N/W at same Ve you can just make the nozzle wider and longer. The only penalties are mass flow and cold start time. I believe Ve is also a function of input power, so the ELF thruster really wants to be a larger scale engine.

>>12390699
Nice

>>12390524
Every NASA concept art ever
>look there’s two of them at once!
>there’s so much happening up there
>it’s all right around the corner now!

Fucking joke

>>12390524
>We never got the power tower

>>12390764
We need space stations shaped like DS9.
>central axis with observation/control deck at one end and reactor on the other
>rotating habitat ring
>docking points attached to the ring

>>12390699
wow, look at that spaceplane go!

>>12390407
>does anyone know how BO's BE-3U compares to the RL10?
RL-10 is closed cycle expander and is slightly more efficient but significantly less powerful.

>>12390490
The mass of the actual thruster has never been the down side of electric propulsion, it's the mass of the power supply that matters. Solar is the lightest option and it's still too heavy to allow for brachistochrone style trajectories.

>>12390839
A 200MW fission plant is ~2kg/kW. That beats solar handily. The real problem is people keep jerking around with tiny cuck boosters instead of planning for multi-Starship sized orbital assembly and NEP doesn't scale down well.

>>12390764
Axiom will take care of that, and also the never finished US habitation module.

F

>>12390667
Listen dude, I'm a HDLT fag myself, but don't start talking about that shit as if we already have fifth gen HDLTs working in space as the default method of propellant based interplanetary propulsion. Focus on what we already have in our hand, or at least on what we know we will have within the next five years. Plasma electric propulsion is looking promising in a few significant ways right now, but they could run into any number of unknown instability problems tomorrow and the entire concept could be thrown into the bin of other dead end electric propulsion concepts. Starship is really happening, so let's consider what we can do with Starship rather than just dismissing it and saying "muh plasma" every time, okay?

>>12390862
>hurr durr iss is done for
>they say and attach two more modules to it

>>12390756
This, NASA's wildest dreams were to launch two spacecraft within several weeks of each other, and maybe one day build an aluminum cabin on the Moon for astronauts to camp in for a month at a time every other year. It's pathetic in retrospect.

>>12390198
>Future HermianCHADS will travel to their new home in gold plated rockets that have more thrust than the entire ESA launch history in one vehicle
Utterly
Based

>>12390862
Is this for entire ISS or only RU modules?

>>12390848
Again, a 200 MW fission plant does NOT consider the mass of the heat engine and radiators that actually convert that 200 MW of thermal energy into ~80 MW of electrical power. No heat-based power system in space will ever beat photovoltaics in W/kg inside of Jupiter's orbit around the Sun, fission nor fusion. It's a catch-22: to me maximally efficient (ie produce the most electricity per unit heat), the hot side of the heat engine needs to be as hot as possible and the cold side needs to be as cold as possible. The hot side can't get hotter than the melting point of whatever you're building out of, and the cold side's temperature is determined by the surface area that you can spread your reactor's heat across. This NECESSITATES gigantic radiator panels, because not only are you dealing with spreading out a lot of heat, black bodies radiate heat more slowly the colder they get, meaning having a radiator that runs half as hot needs to be way more than just 2x bigger (my intuition says it needs 4x the surface area for every factor of two difference between the reactor temperature and the radiator temperature, but I may be wrong on the specifics).

>>12390889
What do you think

>>12390889
>>12390862
whole thread

this is cool. An app that lets you fly starship with real physics: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/x-plane-starship/id1540346715

>>12390862
I don't care, we can launch mass-produced space station modules with modern designs and electronics and systems using Falcon 9 and get an entire ISS sized station up in two years. Fund it or not, but don't cry when your aluminum shitbox ISS starts cracking at the seams.

>>12390553
This would work better for travelling to planets like Jupiter.

>>12390897
>>12390894
Imagine if the ruskies back out, and axiom + US government just keep the station going. Could be based.

>>12390897
ISS is kill soon. Let's build a new modular station out of stainless steel cans. This time we won't use Shuttle and we won't wait around for international ((((cooperation)))) to keep up.

>>12390901
>SpaceX last ditch attempt to train Starship landing AI

>>12390862
This will make for a nice movie in a few decades.

>>12390897
The funny thing is that they were woring on Nauka and Prichal for decades now, so they can't really scrap them, and don't look like retards at the same time.

>>12390914
Just use pacman starships to eat the old modules and place tougher modules on the P-truss. You could even turn it into a ferry of sorts.
>pic barely related

>>12390929
I really hope we get space whale SS

So i'm something of a brianlet.

Wouldn't the Starship "belly flop" and suicide burn basically turn the people inside into paste?
That has to be some serious fucking G forces on landing in that thing.

>>12390901
>X-Plane physics
I thought bellyflop was a meme, but now I have full confidence in it.

>>12390897
>ROS is kill
>"We'll make our own station with blackjack and hookers"
>Reuses the same delapidated modules
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_Piloted_Assembly_and_Experiment_Complex

>>12390932
>Long March X launches chinese satellite
>receivers detect massive object
>what they hear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSnLtzCcE8

>>12390937
I assume the human rated starships will just use methalox RCS to pitch back up instead of using the suicide maneuver.

>>12390928
Their own planned shit as well as the chink station will use the same form factor, so who's to say they can't repurpose those modules for that?
This is a consequence of 4 years of politicians treating Russia like some fucking monster under the bed for political coin.

>>12390929
Nah, deorbit the entire ISS and start from scratch. Dinosaur tech deserves to die.

>>12390897
ROS will become mir 2.0 with half the funding and twice the nightmarish problems and mold.

>>12390897
>pulling out of the ISS just to build Mir 2
Biggest downgrade since Saturn -> Shuttle

>>12390939
Fixed your link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-vREvJHH9Y

>>12390937
The short answer is, no, it wouldn't. The G forces wouldn't even be that high actually, they'd peak around 3 gees maximum during the backflip and landing maneuver, and the people would be starting off already feeling 1 g due to Starship falling at terminal velocity before the flip starts.

>>12390942
It will still be a backflip, anon. The only difference will be the engine relight timing.

>>12390948
Nah, it was pretty damn important. Just get starships to fucking WAKA WAKA the components and bring them to Huntsville, AL or something.

>>12390897
I wish Russian space wasn't such a corrupt fuckfest, they have good engineers desu.

>>12390897
lmao another russian space proposal? AHAHAHA there's a new one every month

>>12390917
underrated

>>12390948
you're not a frontier thinker if you want to take all that launched mass and deorbit it. it should be recycled if anything, same with every derelict satellite in orbit

>>12390980
>bigelow
>bankrupt
only axiom and snc can save us now. oh god oh fuck

>>12391067
>>12390980
It's not worth it. ISS has no value as a museum piece because it has no real value as a scientific outpost; we've pretty much been wasting time up there. It took 20 years to learn that in order to keep a healthy skeleton you need to stress it with strong lifts rather than cardio. Seriously. As for recycling the ISS, the cost of materials in orbit is about to tank significantly, and the cost of developing a way of recycling the ISS into useful stock material ain't dropping. So, deorbit it, get it the fuck out of the way, we will replace it with a new station ten times bigger and one one hundredth the cost. We can even wait until the new station is well under way before we send the ISS down, to keep the continuous LEO presence fags happy.

https://streamable.com/cbisph

Chang'e 5's probe got hacked and got its telemetry data decoded. Here you can see one of the probe's solar panels.

I wonder if more could be hacked so we can see the view of the moon as well as the whole landing progress.

>>12391085
>ISS has no value as a museum piece because it has no real value as a scientific outpost
there are plenty museum pieces that have no scientific value. it can have sentimental value, historical value, geopolitical value. it should become a UNESCO world heritage site

>the cost of materials in orbit is about to tank significantly
we shoudn't rely on hopium

>cost of developing a way of recycling the ISS into useful stock material ain't dropping
it's just as speculative as asteroid mining tech, except we actually know the composition of the ISS. we'll need to learn how eventually, better to start early

>>12391103
Holy shit, does this confirm the existence of ether?

>>12391103
>hacked
you're not gonna link your source?

>Jim takes a selfie with /sfg/

>>12391085
>It took 20 years to learn that in order to keep a healthy skeleton you need to stress it with strong lifts rather than cardio. Seriously.

Yeah, un fucking believable. Surely when you saw some, but small results from low intensity high duration reps, the very first fucking thing you would try would be to try high intensity low duration reps instead. Honestly I would have had them doing weight reps from day one anyway, what retard would think fucking cardio would be conducive for fucking muscle and bone building? Took literally decades to figure it out. Fucking government bloodsucking parasites I would have solved this problem on the first god damn equipment launch.

>>12391122
who is the 4ASS administrator?

>>12391131
Me

>>12391119

>>12391131
I am

https://newatlas.com/space/spaceflight-cells-mitochondria-dysfunction/

Space travel bros... We got too cocky...

>>12390901
>X-Plane
>physics
kek, the flight """sim""" with no atmospheric effects modeled.

>>12391103
What do you mean "hacked?"
They just picked up its signal and decoded it. Doesn't seem like anyone was trying to make it a particularly secure transmission, because why would they?

>>12391131
Gaius Anonymous Faggotus
>tfw they haven't run out of arrows yet

>>12391131
I am Spartacus

>>12390417
so did the automobile at first
and then things changed

>>12391156
>>12391158
Rome-mind

>>12390417
Snate is going to look terrifying in the air

>>12391112
>there are plenty museum pieces that have no scientific value.
Yes, but ISS has no other value of any kind either. I wouldn't put chunk of asphalt that broke off of the shoulder of the road outside my house on display in a museum either.
In fact the only way I would support putting the ISS on display is if it were done SPECIFICALLY as an example of what not to do in a space program, with placards and things explaining just exactly how limited, overcomplicated, expensive, and downright retarded the entire ISS is.
>we shoudn't rely on hopium
Let me amend my statement; Falcon 9 is already here, and could launch 20 ton habitat modules to LEO for less than $50 million. No station module has any reason to cost more than $50 million; if it does someone is scamming someone else. Falcon 9 could add one extra launch to the manifest per every two months and get a 600 ton ISS replacement launched in 2.5 years. Falcon 9 launch economics already make materials in LEO worth ~$2000/kg as opposed to Shuttle's ~$20,000/kg.
When Starship starts flying, even if reusability is a total failure and every launch is expendable, it will still be operating with sub-$1000/kg economics. Reusable Starship gets easily ~$100/kg.
>it's just as speculative as asteroid mining tech
Asteroid mining isn't going to be worth doing for Earth until long after we have robust deep space transportation. It will be developed at Phobos by Mars industries who have more experience in space living AND more incentive to mine low gravity rubble piles. Don't put the cart before the horse.

>>12391170
Imagine this autism.

>>12391160

BY ORDER OF THE OP,

FOR THE DURATION OF THIS THREAD,

ALL MOCKERY,

OF BOEING AND THE SLS,

IS TO KEPT TO AN APPROPRIATE MINIMUM.

>>12391128
>what retard would think fucking cardio would be conducive for fucking muscle and bone building?
a dyel

>>12391128
I remember being truly pissed off when I realized that NASA is run by a bunch of retards who don't care about actually doing anything. I had assumed that they had gone through a comprehensive list of different training styles and regimes and had found the best performance from cardio and light weight high rep exercise. When I realized that they had tried one thing, found a bit of success, and then stuck with that one thing forever when we could have had bone and muscle density loss eliminated in astronauts before we even fucking HAD the ISS, I completely lost all enthusiasm for anything NASA does. It's all styrofoam mockups and distant dreams and figuring out ways of breaking each little step of progress down into infinitely smaller steps in order to make the smallest amount of progress possible as slowly as possible so that they never have to risk actually doing anything, ever.

>>12391171
I don't need to imagine it, anon.
You don't need to worry about space flight anymore, I can handle the rest.

>>12391174
If it's Boing, I'm not going!

>>12391177
>>12391128
This is what happens when you allow eggheads to run a space program

>>12391180
Post-Apollo was a dark era, then we had a few shining years in the reign of Big Jim, as he slayed the cost-plus beast, and now we face an uncertain future.

>>12391144
if you read the article, you discover nothing but academic speculation and bullshit. the fuck does "dysfunction" mean? mitochondria function just fine in space, and people can remain healthy after a year of zero g. anyway, make sure to fund this academic's next study!

>>12391174
Not on my watch boing senate shill, Elonius Muskii just crossed the rubicon and is about to kill all of you.

>>12391085
>It took 20 years to learn that in order to keep a healthy skeleton you need to stress it with strong lifts rather than cardio
>>12391128
>what retard would think fucking cardio would be conducive for fucking muscle and bone building? Took literally decades to figure it out.
Tell me you guys are joking

>>12391184
/thread

>>12391170
Bruh what is this, a reddit post? Can you formulate these ideas into some roughly the size of a tweet? Thank you

>>12391190
The only thing that's certain is that SpaceX is currently driving the development of space technology and is forcing everyone else to stumble their way forward in pursuit. My biggest hope is that NASA realizes that they are 80% cancerous growth at this point and does a big purge, dumps a bunch of contractors, and wakes the fuck up. Of course they can't just do that, they'd have to get that approved, but chances are it won't be long once Starship is flying for whatever administration is in office to say "Hey, these guys are telling me their rocket can do X Y and Z, why aren't we doing that?" and change ends up coming down from above, like an executioner's ax carving the fat off of the space program's bloated carcass.

>>12391197
Rogan's show with Garrett Reisman is a quality two hours. I think they talk about the exercise thing in the first 15 minutes and you get a good firsthand account of some quality Elon autism moments.

>>12391180
anyone got the pic from the NASA town hall with the question about how NASA employees are pushed too hard? lmfao

>>12391205
Maybe Big Jim will do a huge purge and blow it up before he leaves
Here's hoping

>>12391208

>>12391205
NASA should really have a lot more discretion over its own spending and goals, but I know that kind of legislation would be impossible to get through

https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/

In case you meet someone who thinks Elon is just a paper pusher who doesn't really understand rockets or does any work.

>>12391215
These "people" are a walking fucking joke pretending to be human beings.

>>12391200
The ISS is an embarrassment that showcases how bloated, slow, and ineffective the world's space programs have been since shortly after the Apollo era.

A cheap ISS replacement could be built in less than three years if we took advantage of Falcon 9 launch cadence+costs, plus avoided making sure every single contractor in the United States and Europe were involved in building each module. No more artisan, one-and-done, $900 million dollar modules half the length of a school bus, we're doing 20 ton steel cylinders with good-enough everything.

Using the ISS as a mock-asteroid to figure out how to mine asteroids skips the actual challenges of mining an asteroid (dust and shit gets in your stuff) and replaces it with completely different challenges (taking apart a derelict station made of aluminum and composites and shit). Asteroid mining is too far off the horizon, just like colonizing Ganymede or Alpha Centauri. It' would be a waste of time and money to do anything to the ISS other than dump it into the atmosphere. Don't worry, Mars has two moons which are extremely similar to asteroids to use as a playground for developing asteroid mining.

>>12391215
>programs are not mature enough to complete milestones
w-what programs is he talking about bros?

>>12391223
JWST

>>12391218
>elon can solve the rocket equation and do orbital maneuver math in his head in real time
what the fuck

>>12391235
i can too, i play ksp with realism overhaul and no ui ;););)

>>12391231
THAT'S NOT MATURE ENOUGH?

>>12391215
We choose to go to the moon, not because it is hard, but because it offers stable employment and a relaxed work/life balance.

>>12391235
>he can't iron cage orbital mechanics on the go

ngmi

>>12391241
Sorry sweaty, we need at least another decade and 5 billion dollars :^)

>>12391231
>>12391246
I was going to joke that it would be able to vote soon, but the JWST program is actually 24 years old already, wtf lol

>>12391218
Plenty of people have said he has a near photographic memory of anything he reads

>>12390040
Gay and stupid

>>12391252
Telescopes are hard

>>12391262
So are big rockets, and yet Starship is setting up to be an insane success story, welded together in a swamp by mexicans.

>>12391273
>Starship is setting up to be an insane success story
that's a bit premature. Still plenty of room for things to go wrong.

>>12391262
>>12391273
Spacex needs to hire some beaners to build a telescope and btfo yet another oldspace project

>>12391280
Why are you still here anon? I said you can rest now.

>>12391288
counting chickens etc

>>12391218
I wish I was born with autism that gave me an instant education buff

scientifically speaking, are we von braunians, or zubrinites?

>>12391323
Zubrin is a based retard and his missions are the best that could possibly come out of anything directed by NASA.

>>12391323
>Kurt "tentacle lover" Eichenwald
Why is Zubrin even bothering to reply?

>>12391323
>that reply
>promoting sketchy ass vaccines
>muh horseshoe theory

Fucking dropped holy shit

>>12391323
Both.

>>12391347
I think he may have been purposefully hyperbolic there to make his point, that the first guy is being idiotic.

>>12391243
>going to the moon because it's your patriotic duty and it's been the dream of every explorer in the history of mankind
vs
>going to the moon because [REDACTED] [REDACTED] lives matter and more science will give us faster iphones with more gigabytes
are you surprised?

>>12391243
Accurate

You don't know who this man is. That is ok.

>>12391323
Zubrin needs to make a YouTube channel to post rants. I’d listen to him for hours.

>hear china is planning a lunar base
>get excited
>read more
>it's robotic only
>and none of the robots ill be near each other to form an actual base
fuck

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/k11ehg/spacex_is_outsourcing_starlink_satellitedish/

>>12391421
it's Chuck, anon
I know who Chuck is

>>12390948
Tow it to the Moon and scrap it there. A base will eventually be on the Moon, so why not save costs by having a defunct ISS already there for the purpose of salvage material?

>>12391255
>:(

>>12391433
>tfw bush senior actually kinda gave a shit about space
It’s a shame First Lunar Outpost never got realized. Comet was an awesome rocket that deserved better.

>>12391431
>may
>could
>"""industry insider"""" says

Not paying for your subscription now go gas yourself.

>>12391421
If you want to some sort of smart-ass, try an invalid filename next time.

>>12391421
according to my air force buddy i look a lot like ol chuck, at least in his younger days

>>12391421
Judging by the filename of your image I would say that person is Charles Elwood Yeager.

>>12391421
If his name wasn’t in the filename, my first guess would’ve been Robin Olds without his mustache. Something about the flight suit+garrison cap combination.

>>12391421
The previous owner of sneeds feed and seed.

>>12391465
also known as Chuck, the world's most famous test pilot, yeah

>>12391323
we are muskets :^)

>>12391218
>reddit
does nu-/sci/ really?

>>12391480
We have an unfortunate amount of redditors here that got pushed out by the full commie takeover of their shithole website.

>>12391323
Zubrin suffers from the most intense form of TDS that is hilarious given his hate toward woke space policy coming from Biden administration.I have no idea how he can't connect the dots

>>12391103
I wonder who's behind this

>>12391486
>I have no idea how he can't connect the dots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Zubrin#Early_life_and_education

>>12391494
>WHO CAN IT BE NOW INTENSIFIES

>>12391494
but i thought jews hate spaceflight.. some /sfg/ antisemetic narratives are at odds. how can we square thus circle, frens?

>>12391521
uh Jews are not a hivemind
okay thanks

>>12391521
>jews
>ideologues
anon I....

>>12391494
>early life

Every time, guess this explains his junk tier politics even though he is based about rockets.

>Coast Guard officials planned to issue a "notice to mariners" prior to the launch. But some leeway was to be given to SpaceX.
>"SpaceX will decide a go/no go based on vessels inside the safety zone per FAA regulations," wrote Cody Jones, boating law administrator in the TPWD law enforcement division.
inb4 lots of delays due to boaters

>>12391544
When I get my sailboat I'm going to cruise around boca for the lulz.

>>12391544
>SpaceX will decide a go/no go
What if there's a boat and they bellyflop snate directly onto it to make an example?

>>12391543
Are you a Nazi?

>>12391559
Are you a jew?

>>12391454
kek

>>12391431
>business insider
yikes

when are we going back to the moon

>>12391571
Short answer, now. Long answer, a while from now.

>>12391575
is there anything on the moon worth colonizing though, we could make bases but for what reason?

>>12391571
2024, with or without NASA

>>12391580
>not urf
>can mine without limitations

>>12391559
Nah. I'm a fascist tho

>>12391580
we will find out its value when we get there

>>12391583
>throw ruk

>>12391583
first you desecrate the face of the heavens with starlink space junk, and now you desecrate the face of the moon with strip mining? you capitalists are despicable. fuck this board

>>12391592
nigga the soviets wanted to do it as well. Any one who is not a anprim or a liberal knows the Heavens are ours to walk upon.

>>12391588
Based

>>12391592
Fuck urf

>>12391580
>for what reason?
because it is there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZyRbnpGyzQ

>>12391571
We did that already. We need to focus on the earth, sweaty.

i miss ksp bro. i wish he came back

SLS is the most powerful rocket ever built. Why are you mad?

>>12390050
Fuck that. You should work from home 4 days a week. Only coming in on Thursday to reinforce why they need you. Instead of outsourcing hone office workers completely.

>>12391616
solid rockets don't count :^)

>>12391616
>built

Yeah you have to actually build one first to be able to use a past tense.

>>12391559
No, just a noticer Mr. Zubrin, with all due respect.

>>12391323

We are Muskovites.

>>12390040
how would you mine and utilize the asteroids?
the easiest way I can think of is
>slice big iron asteroid to 1cm thick "planks"
>chuck cut-offs into induction furnace and extrude as welding wire
>weld the bulk slabs together into whatever borderline megastructures you want
thing is, how viable is to make 1+m deep cuts with laser or other methods into iron?

>>12391731
Cutting metal asteroids with lasers in 0g would be impossible since the molten slag in your cut line would just stay in place and not be pulled away by gravity.

>>12391762
Good old drilling then.

>>12391762
you could blow stream of oxygen at the spot in pulse mode
oxide layer would form, flake off, and get blown away, exposing the bare metal and repeat
the flakes can be collected and oxygen regenerated

obviously, you would first need to seal the quarry from vacuum somehow

or don't use mechanical means at all
you could drill a hole, fill it with acid, pump out out the dissolved metal and re-process the sludge into metallic dust to proont stuff from
then recycle the acid and just keep dissolving it from the inside out until it's just a thin shell, at which point you sell it as real estate

>>12390897
how about we build a new station with starship that has rotating sections and is several hundred meters long

>>12391762
>molten slag
Just don't be a pussy and put enough power to evaporate it

>>12391174
>subsaharan africans in rome

i will personally delay SN8's hop with a boat

>>12391856
Don't forget the red flag with "BIDEN" on it

>>12391218
>>12391235
That's gotta be someone just overexaggerating what happened because it seemed like magic to them.
>>12391521
They do, but Jews are also very schizophrenic; why do you think Zubrin is so crazy? It's because he's a living, breathing contradiction.
>>12391555
Anyone know the scene from the old horror movie with the giant kid yelling "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY ROOM"?
We need that but Elon yelling "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY LANDING ZONE."

>>12391895
Will do

Did we talk about the FAA documents? Lots of environmental concerns about Boca Chica.
>Starship testing is expected to release 20,000 tons of CO2
>joyrides by SpaceX employees have left multiple vehicles stuck in wildlife habitats
>speed limits are being disobeyed by employees which has killed lots of wildlife
>endangered sea turtles are being affected
>state and federal agencies have multiple complaints about Boca Chica operations
https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/k1aj40/new_details_about_starship_testing_and_boca_chica/

Elon is going to have to turn things around asap at Boca Chica. It's too cowboy out there.

>>12391944
look at this gay shit

>>12391944

>>12391944
>>speed limits are being disobeyed by employees which has killed lots of wildlife
based as fuck

>>12391944
time to pack up and move to Barbados
closer to equator and without all this peta nonsense

>>12391944
It‘s ok. We‘ll just move the turtles to Mars. Please give us funding so we can get the rockets ready.

>>12392047
on second thought, Barbados is really densely populated
all I knew about Barbados was the HARP space gun is rusting somewhere over there

>>12392070
Never forget what (((they))) took from us

>>12392080
he was kinda asking for it at that point

>NROL-108 official mission patch

SPACE--------------------------------------------------X

Used to be comfy, but now it's too political.
See ya later anons

>>12392101
See you tomorrow.

>>12392089
He just wanted to build big guns. No man should be Mossad'd for it.

>>12391649
>Muskovites
inb4 Space X turns out to be a Roscosmos shell entity.

>>12392109
Sad truth, I want to leave this place so bad but I can't

>>12392126
shouldn't have pointed them at Tel Aviv
I like guns, but if I aimed a .45 at the President as a publicity stunt, I would have only myself to blame when the secret service puts a bullet in my frontal lobe

>>12391944
>environmental concerns
Stopped reading right there, now get the fuck out

>durrhurrhurr it's okay to destroy native ecosystem so we get to muh murs!

>>12392286
We destroy native ecosystems by just existing. No one cares about the environment that is in power. Most of the newer environmental regulations is just a tool to grab land from common people and then give that same land to corporations to develop on it and then ruin the local ecology.

>>12392299
Flump lost.

>>12392317
Okay I dont like him. But biden wont be your progressive president just an other pro Israel shill.

>>12392286
The footprint SpaceX has on the ecosystem is tiny

>>12392325
>an other

Unsurprisingly the trash burning hick can't even write.

>>12392299
>>12392333
Don't reply to him you idiots.
"Trolling outside of /b/" is an option for a reason

>>12392101

This but I'm staying.

I don't mind shitting on leftists but can we do that when we are at other boards please.

>>12392347
Ill give it a couple of months. We just got an election done.

>>12392342
That anon does bring up an interesting point though. How much should spaceflight be held accountable for environmental protection? How much is "too much" for environmental regulations for spaceflight? Does spaceflight as a whole even have a significant impact on the environment?

>>12392299
>grab land from common people and then give that same land to corporations to develop on it and then ruin the local ecology
I don't think SpaceX got the Boca Chica land by abusing environmental regulations

>>12392377
I wasn't talking about SpaceX.

>>12392377
they got it by abusing elderly retirees, though

>>12392409
Abusing how?

>>12392417
Why are you replying to a shitpost?

>agriculture, livestock, research, medicine, zoos, aquariums, seed banks, pets
We need to bring lots of life from Earth to Mars and other places. Earthfags better not kill them all.

>>12392424
Just rent out some space in that Norwegian seed vault for future livestock cloning

>>12392424
can it hold my seed?

>>12392375
No he doesn't have an interesting point and no spaceflight does not have a "significant impact" compared to the mundane day to day infrastructure that keeps 7 billion humans alive, retard.

>on October 24th, 1960, a terrible rocket accident occurred at Baikonur Cosmodrome
>it was immediately common knowledge in the Western press with an estimated death toll of 100, but the Soviet Union denied it ever happened
>the Soviet Union finally acknowledged the event in 1989 and claimed 54 people died
>in 2010, the Russian Space Agency claimed 126 people died, but also they were unsure of this number and it could be anywhere between 60 and 150

How do you cover up something so well that you can't even declassify it later when you *want* to?

>>12392444
based

>>12392448
I guess you gotta ask the soviet union. I would guess they shredded the documents back in the day.

>no news of TLI
>no news at all
What happened to Chang'e 5, Chinabros? Did we get too cocky again?

>>12392443
That's what girlfriends (female) and girlfriends (rockets) are for

Reminder Elon Musk is a menace to the society. He constantly questions our government and pokes fun at our beliefs. He should not be managing a national security company like spacex. The state ought to oust him from leadership position and secure the company to align with us policy. We should hereforth nationalize spacex for the good of the nation.

>>12392456
It probably went well, but they're double checking everything before making an announcement. China is like Blue Origin in that they don't want to show their stuff until they're absolutely sure that it'll look good.

>>12392467
If anyone responds to 457, then he's a massive fucking nigger and should kill themselves.

>>12391593
The anti nuclear/space/military/coal/oil segment of American politics was seeded by the KGB to slow us down.

>>12392482
Who made Marxism and capitalism though? Thats the real question

>>12392488
Capitalism is just the natural state of society with post-medieval economies, it's not something that had to be imposed. Marxism, and the word "capitalism", were invented by the (((same person))).

>>12392407
that just makes it extra ironic and makes you look like an absolute tool

>>12392494
How so?

>>12392488
Checked

>>12392491
Who were the medieval money changers tho? Same guy

>>12391421
That man still shitposts on twitter and occasionally fights with zoomers.

>>12392286
Yes.

>>12392503
No fucking way

>>12392503
This guy is 97 lmao

>>12392496
because SpaceX is a corporation that grab land from bunch of people, builds stuff for profit there and is ruining the local ecology in the process
you complain about companies abusing environmental regulations damaging the environment for profit to defend company damaging the environment for profit

I think revolutionizing rockets > some turtles, but your argument makes no sense and only makes you look like a retard and/or hypocrite

>>12391128
We’ve known that weight training strengthens bones and muscles for like centuries. Why is NASA so pants on head retarded?

>>12392526
>Why is NASA so pants on head retarded?
Decades of desperately doing everything as inefficiently as possible to justify job retention in the face of an indifferent government can mess up one's work ethic

>>12392524
Well my point is some of those complaints are most likely from a development company that wants to use the land for other means so they would use a front environmental group to make complaints to try and make it hard for spacex to conduct its work there. SpaceX did grab land that is true but it didn't use a front group to say its for the turtles... They just brought the land.

>>12392544
fair enough
I just though the irony is kinda funny

>>12392524
Fuck ecology

>>12391252
Maybe jwst can rent a car when it turns 25 and drive to L2 on its own.

>>12391215
Anyone have a link to the video containing Big Jim's response to this? It was something like "then maybe NASA isn't for you"

>>12392552
Like a Tesla?

>>12391464
Did he suck your dick before or after saying that

>>12392286
Yes. Kill yourself so you stop polluting our thread.

>>12392524
>ruining the local ecology
>U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service specifically stated that "Natural resource damages thus far were negligible"
People in the modern world think that a plurality of anecdotes adds up to a systemic problem, or even a concerted conspiracy. We should not accept this mental illness.

>>12392557
I like that Jim only brought up the idea to show how slow oldspace is. We need more high up people within the industry willing to push things along

>>12392557
>>12392552
>>12391252
I just realized how to save the SLS program

>>12392595
that actually works mass wise if you drop the solids

>>12392595
Has been proposed here many times and spawned the lamentation of the rs 25 not having a vacuum bell

toot

>>12392595
Starship Launch System

>>12392653
BE-3 is cute

>reading https://satelliteobservation.net/2020/11/25/china-completes-the-yaogan-30-constellation/
>says China plans 500 satellite network to monitor the Earth
How would the West defeat the constellation in a future war?

>>12392692
The 500 satellites are a military network, hence the question.

>>12392692
Realistically, nothing without messing up LEO for everyone else.

>>12391944
can you stop linking to reddit you fucking faggot

>>12392692
500 SM-3s launched from sea.

>>12392595
>center of thrust higher than the center of mass
>srbs spewing hot gasses and solid chunks of burning propellant onto a fuel tan

>>12392718
>noooo you can't violate my safe space

>>12392718
>muh sekrit club

>>12392732
>>12392737
Imagine still going to reddit in the year of our lord 2020. Go back faggot.

>>12392758
We link to reddit all the time cool your jets macho man

>>12390104

>>12392758
Imagine getting triggered this hard by words on a screen lmao

>>12392765
We don’t. You do.
We go on 4 Chan to enjoy 4chan

You come here, see the layout, and decide it needs more reddit.

>>12392728
>not air lighting the SRBs

>>12392767
I wanna scratch behind his flaps

>>12390104

>>12392557
why not launch on two heavies? still cheaper than SLS

>https://www.krgv.com/news/spacex-planned-9-mile-launch-self-destruct-zone-over-gulf

>>12392807
Requesting a Chaika face

>>12392784
Cringe lmao. Reddit is gay but lots of anons link to it in /sfg/. Most of the time it’s just to laugh at their SLS or Starliner subreddit. But sometimes it’s to link to info on starlink, or starship updates or stuff.

>>12392560
i cant remember, he was a good man

>>12392823
Dude, you’re not getting it. I am here for every thread. Just because you saw others do it doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

>>12392834
The epic gatekeeper

>>12392767
cute!!!

>>12392732
>>12392737
Why link the reddit regurgitation when he could just link the fucking FAA eval? Fucking retards

>>12392767
>>12392807
I don't want to lose her bros

>>12392664
how big is this thing? Similar in size to the RL10? BO is so damn cagey about their equipment specs. We still have no idea what the BE-4's isp is nor how heavy it is.

>>12392503
hes still fucking alive?

>>12392874
He's the most alive man for a hundred years.

>>12392874
he's still fucking, yes

>>12392732
>>12392737
>over 640k people in that subreddit
>almost 1k currently active right now
>currently only 87 unique IPs in /sfg/
redditors are like locusts

The ebin oblivious shitposter

>>12392883
yup

>>12392822
Chaika on the first stage!

>>12392859
Based on it's thrust output I'd ballpark it at less than half the size of an RS-25

>>12392557
I think the Falcon line itself could use updates of its own. I think there should be a new line of Falcon called Falcon 10. It's basically just a skinnier version of Starship.

>>12392931
If Starship works and you can LEO 100 tons for two million bucks, ever building any rocket smaller than that again seems pointless

>>12392931
Musk has specifically stated that improving on the F9 isn't worth it if it takes resources away from Starship development

hop is so close, bros

>>12392964
peko peko

>>12392983
thats a man

>>12393000
There's a video of this bitch before she became a vtuber. She got some big tiddies.

>>12393000
He's got some nice tits for a man, than

>>12393000
Hololive is the girl group. Holostars is their male group.

>>12392822
Not quite sure about the size and positioning of Chaika's face on this one.

>>12393041
Very cute.

>>12393041

>>12392595
I think this one is almost to scale, isn't it?
good work

>>12392692
SpaceX is going to have big space lasers and telescopes that they use to communicate with Mars
if you direct them at targets in LEO it will blind or destroy them quickly

I wish I could disseminate a phone virus that explodes the battery of anyone who accesses r*ddit. Then when I meet someone irl I can look at their hands and immediately tell if they are going to have anything of value to say.

>>12390409
I had a good dream that sn8 stuck it's landing :)

>>12393268
>phone virus
dumb phone poster

>>12391447
Would cost more than just scrapping the ISS and starting over with a purpose-built module design that can be produced by the hundreds.

>>12393268
You're as bad as the redditors who will check someones post history to see if they ever posted on a conservative/trump subreddit and use that against them.
Might as well just say #CancelReddit

>>12393324
Go back holy shit you fucks are so obvious.

>>12393324
ummm sweaty do you know how problematic that site is? At least have the common curtousy to censor r*ddit like
>>12393268

>>12391616
>SLS is real

>>12393334
Y-Y-YOU HAVE TO G-GO BACK!!!1
>Crying_Wojak.jpg

>>12391616
Based SLS Chad

>>12390409
I had a dream I was marries to SLS but then I divorced her and married Starship instead and we made love every night.

>>12391616
more like SUCKY Launch System.
Am I right?

>>12393361
I had a dream that somebody stole all my shorts

>>12391616

>>12393368
Good work John! With that kind of work ethic we can milk this for at least another 10 years.

>>12391731
That'd make a fairly shitty product.

I would start off by setting a rotating space industrial park next to the asteroid. Material would be lifted off of the asteroid using space elevators (a 10 km long steel cable would be plenty). Buckets of material scooped from the asteroid would be brought into the rotating processing facility. Under simulated gravity, the rocky material would be crushed and sifted into different grades of coarseness. These materials would then either be used as feedstock directly (for example, basaltic rock can be melted down and extruded into basalt fibers which are a bit stronger than glass fibers and are ideal as a cheap outer winding material for constructing more rotating pressurized structures) or sent off to be washed with acids to extract metals like silver, copper, gold, etc. Eventually after stripping out the more rare things, we'd be left mostly with the various metal oxides and noble metals, which can be separated by other means. The last step would be to send these purified oxides and metals off to final smelting and preparation for use in manufacturing.

>>12393368
That's not an SLS contractor. He actually does work at the end.

>>12392286
I would personally kill every endemic species at Boca if it guaranteed Mars colonization. Mars colonization all but guarantees the diaspora of humans into the universe, which will seed the cosmos with life across millions of light years, which will result in an unfathomably large diversity of life. Well worth the sacrifice, easily.

>>12392375
>>12391944
A single 100 hectare farm represents vastly more environmental damage than the running total of damage SpaceX is responsible for.

>>12392467
BO crashing new glenn boosters into californian cities when?

>>12392621
RS-25 almost has a vacuum bell, that's not the problem. The problem is that RS-25 cannot ignite in-flight, and apparently giving it that capability is hard enough that every proposal ever made that had RS-25 igniting in flight was shot down. Personally I think the engineers are just lazy, but whatever.

>>12393388
this is horrible omg, you guys don't love mars at all, you just hate earth D:

>>12392692
>>12392697
put an electromagnet on every Starlink sat. When the time comes, tell 500 of the Starlink sats to maneuver close to those Chine sats, grab them, and deorbit. No mess leftover in orbit, one or two launches of Starship replace the missing Starlink sats, and chine tears flood east asia like the Yangtze.

>>12392808
NASA has an aversion to in-space assembly. Maybe they have ptsd from actually finishing a project?