/sci/ - Science & Math

If you're going down anyways you might as well report him somewhere or something.

>>12381690
do you study in the usa?

>>12381703
Europe

>>12381690
Do you know any other faculty that could be an ally? Are there other students who have had a similar experience with this supervisor that would support you?

>>12381699
Yeah, at least report him for breach of ethics. Threatening your career in that way is not acceptable. Try set up an appointment with your dean/director/chair/whatever.

>>12381708
eastern europe?

>>12381690
Based african american

>>12381690
he's a jew isn't he op? check early life

>>12381690
dont ruin your life for a tiny bit of principle

>>12381750
Whole book?

>>12381690
Tell us what you should lie about. Was it lab experiment?

>>12381690
What area of solid state physics? How wrong are they?

>>12381690
Good on you anon. Write a medium article about your story in full detail. Go all in on this scumbag

>>12381690
>he threatened to hurt my career opportunities
If you have copies of email of him saying that, he's the one who should worry about his career opportunities.

>>12381690
Report your supervisor.
You may think that your career is over, but you can start again somewhere else with the knowledge and proficiency you have acquired. However, your career will be truly over if you post wrong results and you have to retract them.
Nobody recovers from a retracted paper, ever.

>>12381690
I hope you are recording these conversations so it's not his word against yours...

Should've recorded it.
I guess having a PhD doesn't make someone as smart as people think they are.

>>12381921
this
just get ahead in life and use your wealth and power to make his life a living hell, monte cristo style

>>12382295
>>12382302

Recording a conversation without explicit consent, unless you're some kind of law agent, is illegal in most places. You don't live in a fucking CSI episode.

>>12382521
untrue lmfao, blazing retard law-let

>>12382540
Depends on the state

>>12382540
He is right, though.

>>12382555
WARNING WARNING LOW IQ DETECTED
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#United_States

what does most mean again? oh

>>12382582
He said to live in yurop

>>12381690
Ever heard of recording apps?

>>12382590
It's legal to record conversations in most of europe.

>>12381690
At least try going to the press or something or get the word out, then he might have his bluff called/roved from his position anyway.

>>12382610
also doesn't matter, yurp has retarded civil law meaning all evidence is admissible in a court regardless of legality

>>12381690
based

>>12382630
Sound pretty based to me.
Truth is truth, no matter how it came to light.

>>12381690
What's so wrong about the results? I assume it's not something that can be fixed in a week or two?

>>12382643
>police enter your house illegally, find meth
>convicted
>police not charged because of qualified immunity
>warrants no longer needed

>>12382668
I believe the evidence law is different for government officials.

>>12381690
>just got off a meeting where my supervisor told me to publish results he knows are wrong.

Just do it, and welcome to modern science. Make sure you post your article to IFL science with a wild spin so you can watch the little men gush over it and how you're saving the planet with your objective facts and iron-man iconography and whatnot else.

>>12381690
I admire your principles, anon, but its honestly not worth it. This is, unfortunately, the state of modern science. Everything is extremely saturated and you need to churn out papers to stay relevant. If you think physics is bad, just look at the rigor in humanities, you'll laugh your ass off.
Just remember that this paper will probably not get noticed, but may pave a path for a more fruitful research in the future.

>>12381690
fuck'em, academia isn't worth whoring yourself out. Tell him he is a faggot and a nerd.

>>12381690
You are a role model and I praise you for your honesty.

Record your supervisor saying that shit, in case he makes any reality out of his threats... at least you have a masters degree in physics, so you can still do something with your life

>>12381690
The absolute state of 'science'

Unironically whistleblow on reddit /r/physics.

>>12381690
How well connected is he?

Good job mate

>>12382741
shut the fuck up nigger

Just go into industry.

>>12381690
Don't rant, tell us what's incorrect.

>>12382521
Actually most states are one party consent for audio recordings. Quite a few aren't, but it's certainly not most.

>>12381690
Never surrender your integrity.

>>12384386
Cope
Publish the paper, gain power, and then make a difference in the world. You'll do a lot more good.

>>12381690
>I didn't become a scientist to lie for money.
Oof. I got news for you, bucko.

>>12381690
academia is gay. fuck him, if you can get a PhD in physics you should be smart enough to get a job that's not in academia or research anyway

>>12381690
Get a GOOD lawyer.

>>12381690
Don't bow your head. Your crown will fall off king

no one is going to read your paper anyway. Don't be a hpno do what you are told.

>>12381690
bring a recorder, have him admit on (secret) recording about trying to publish knowingly false results, submit it to someone higher up than him, laugh as it all comes tumbling down

It’s a bit surreal to read this. Had the same thing happen. Ultimately dropped out as a result (luckily only a masters in). Reporting is tricky since (in the US) your school is the only body who will investigate it. It’s been a while since I looked into this and I also don’t believe they have to report anything / punish their professor even if they find you correct in all your complaints. Reporting to your professors funding source is may be a better path if you have hard evidence. Retraction-watch may also be a good resource.

In my case I switched to software engineering (original I know) because it’s a field where you could ultimately continue working regardless of whether you were ‘blacklisted’ in the field. My previous interest’(Synthetic Biology) will leave you dependent on other people’s capital and lab space (hence tied to academia) for the rest of your career. I didn’t want to risk reporting my professor and having it happen again in post doc. Going the academia path left be too vulnerable to stuff like this to pin my future career on it (post docs and collaborators have the chance to fuck you over in the future). Currently working in FAANG on some pretty interesting stuff but definitely don’t have the intellectual freedom I’d want career wise. We’ll see how the next few years shake out

>>12381690
>Fuck all of you who publish shitty research, knowingly or unknowingly.
Amen, brother.
>If this is happening in solid state physics I cannot imagine the kind of shit that goes on in less rigorous areas.
Out of pretty much the same motivation as you, I moved into engineering because it wasn't science and I thought I would care less if incorrect or retarded thiggs get published. Unironically, I've seen publications where authors explained on seven pages how taking more basis functions in an approximation yields better results. At least half the papers about machine learning approaches weren't reproducible, some of their results actually 99% cherry-picked boundary cases for which it worked, while claiming it worked for every case. I've also seen papers where the mean of an experiment agreed with the theory, but their standard deviation was way over 100%.

Science is on life support currently. It's no wonder the public distrusts our guild so much. Fuck publish or perish and career "scientists".

>>12381690
Fuck your supervisor. Write a paper exposing the wrong results in literature. Consider writing a blog post to expose him or report what he said to other academics. If you’re going down, might as well share the truth and bring him down with you

>>12381690
You do a service to us all and we cannot thank you enough. Please attempt to get a recording of this professor threatening you for publishing wrong results and forbidden you from writing a paper that countermands established information. At the least know you are what makes the world turn a little bit better, even if it grinds down on your gear teeth.

>>12381690
you know what needs to be done OP.

>>12381690
I don't care about your cringe fantasies, lying retard op.
I'm just here to say that you're not a scientist, having a degree doesnt make you a scientist/engineer/mathematician...etc.
You just learned other people's,actual smart people,work,nothing more,know your place.
The entire human civilisation is brought to you by a tiny tiny group,the reason you never achieved anything isn't because you're lazy or unlucky, it's because you're merely a midwitt.

>>12381690

This might be retarded, but you're quite fucked desu. dude. Don't despair though, keep living.
---
Can you somehow get proof on him? Maybe call him and go;

"I've decided to publish this paper, even though I know there are wrong results. But I'd just like to make sure, that we're good then, and you won't cripple my future, like you've mentioned yesterday?"

Make sure you record yourself on camera, and make a statement before calling, explaining the situation? The goal is to hope he answers with;

"Yes, publish it and we're good."

But fuck it sucks man. Corruption is everywhere.

>>12381690
Reminder he is not a god, no matter how much better connected and situated he seems, raise hell with the school board, go high enough over his head so it’s not his buddy. Aposuletky threaten to never go away if they don’t reprimand him in writing. You can ruin their careers for every school and industry journal if it gets known they allow bad results to be published

>>12381690
just tape him/get him to do the threatening over email and report his ass

>>12381708
...France? Guessed so

>>12384698
the legal system can unfortunately mess with you in most countries. Do this only if you kill yourself afterwards.

>>12384946
seething professor soon to be reported to the relevant authorities itt KEK

>>12381690
desu the pay in academia still probably isnt worth collaborating with such redditor

>>12385401
kill yourself schizoposter

>>12384946
t. undergrad on the verge of mental breakdown

>>12385401
The version with Mr Clean is better

>>12381690
>>12381708

You can move to a developing country and help them with industry

>All these redditors thanking some fag larping that he is too stupid to report to an ethics committee

>>12381921
If everyone operated by this then corruption would be rampant, even more so than it already is.

>>12381690
Thank God I quit my PhD. Academia is a shitshow.

>>12381690
>start your own youtube channel
>use it to expose this shit
>take advantage of the repercussion to make popsci videos
>???
>profit
>your supervisor's career is now over

>>12381690
ask for another meeting with him.
take two activated analog dictation devices with you.
subtly mention your and his name in the conversation.
make a commentary from which the date can be deduced.
then confront him again with the situation.
make sure that the details get to the point.
say that you still have great reservations about publishing untruths.
get him to blackmail you again.
say that you agree only out of fear for your career.

and then fuck his ass out of physics.

>>12382694
It isn´t - that´s what >>12382630
explicitly wrote.

Most European countries don´t have a "fruit of the poisonous tree"-principle that invalidates illegally acquired evidence. Furthermore, many European countries don´t actually require any warrant for home searches - the opinion of a constable is enough to conduct search and seizure in atleast Sweden, Norway and Finland.

>>12385697
Everyone in power *does* operate this way. That's why they're in power.

Did you bother recording the conversation?

Protip: if you are going to go against the grain, always record that shit

They will ALWAYS pass you off as a shitty disgruntled underling

First of all, this:
>>12381699

Second of all, peer-review is a thing, you will be called out on the bullshit. If this doesn't happen, publish the results to keep him happy, and you get a second paper for free to rectify the first one. Then as soon as you finish your PhD you can publish whatever the fuck you want without having to worry about the cunt.

>>12381690
I know a guy who was in a similar situation as you. Basically his PI wanted to publish something that was based on unsound methodology. The guy disagreed and was told to move forward anyway. But he went full retard and then erased all copies of the data and quit. Las I heard he got a job as a mailman, no joke. At least he has his integrity I guess.

>>12381690
bump well done anon, strength and honour. Your 'super'-visors karmic burden only increases, hopefully your words will let him see light

>>12386001
What would you suggest in that case? Deliberately publishing falsehoods is academic death regardless of whether one is willing or not, so acceding to the supervisor's abusive request does not seem wise either to me. Perhaps attempting to publish and then pretend there was a "mistake" if caught could salvage the situation but even then I'm not sure, sometimes fraud is obvious and one can't outrun a scandal.

>>12385997
That's a bit naive, his supervisor is most likely old and knows the framework of how everything work and by how confident he is he probably already had experiences like this where he posted wrong results that got approved

>>12381690
OP post the results then after it gets accepted and peer reviewed expose the shitty fucking system. I've been through PhD subreddits and my god, I've seen some posts by supervisors detailing how no dissertation defense ever failed. There's something wrong with the system.

Wow just reading this thread and everyone experience with corruption in academia is so painful, please guys tell me something will be done about it

>>12381690

>>12386222
If you're mature enough and have at least some degree of authority then you can discuss it directly with your supervisor. I've found myself in a similar situation on a few occasions, but have always resolved the problem by clearly articulating to my PI why I thought it would be problematic to present the data in the way that they had in mind. Often the PI is too far removed from the data to see the problem, and it takes some walking through for them to see the problem. I can understand why others find it difficult to do though, because having a difference of opinion with your PI that runs so deep can be intimidating.

>>12386256
Why is /sci/ full of redditors?

>>12386306
hating corruption is considered being reddit? give me a break

>>12386407
No, but being a faggot about it is.

>>12381690
>solid state physics (finishing PhD)
You can get a good job in industry, especially in solid state.

>>12382178
>If you have copies of email of him saying that, he's the one who should worry about his career opportunities.
I'd rather not give names here but experience is that worms like that are operating with impunity.

>>12382202
>Nobody recovers from a retracted paper, ever.
I suggest you check RetractionWatch.com where people are shown to survive even multiple retractions. These guys have no fear of being caught or of any consequences.

>>12386412
ad homenim fallacy

>>12386483
I was not arguing anything you dumb faggot. I was just calling you a faggot, you faggot.

>>12385966
Fun fact: people that cheat on their partners are much more likely to hold the belief that everyone cheats on their partner

>>12386276
>>12384741

It's not just about corruption, it's bad and lazy corruption. It hit me when I watched a PhD defense (of a friend of mine, biology stuff). The title is "Doctor of Philosophy", and this person wasn't living up to that title. When you realize that the degree truly means nothing, it suddenly looks like a cult, and everyone gets promoted for participating in the program. Well, "everyone", because of finite resources and all that jazz.

It's like multi-level marketing or something. You have persons who were convinced to enter academia because their egos were fluffed and they were told they could do anything, they then participate in the program, while paying bills, rent, having kids, and they need to stay in the program to keep their life inertia going, because changing your life is hard work and potentially self-destructive. Yes, this is especially ridiculous in the humanities.

Actual "science", whatever this word means, is amoral. If you ignore the fossil record and think humans are some immortal system in this universe, you're going to have a bad time ahead of you at some point. Point is, girls should not be encouraged to be scientists. "The black community" should not be encouraged to be scientists. No one should be encouraged to be a scientist, because that defeats the point. Diversity is not homogeneity and equal distributions.

Basically, there are those who have some understanding of thermodynamics, and there are those who do not, and most PhDs, of any field do not understand thermodynamics in any serious way relative to how they comport their lives, otherwise their actions would be different than they are. In other words, "they do not give a shit."

>>12381690
based

>>12385697
Calm down Kant, your philosophy doesnt work in real life
he'd do more good ignoring then then doing good later on>>12385966

>>12381690
You still haven't disclosed your findings to listening public while you could.

It's your destiny to be censored.

>>12381690
Behaviour is 100% genetic.
Whatever you do, you better have at least ten kids by your deathbed.
Fuck you if you let your genes die down.

>>12381690
So what's the plan now OP? Were you just LARPing or are you gonna stop being a pussy and do something.

>>12385401
Fuck off

>>12381690
This happened to me as well. Way more common than people think.
I actually refused to publish and it permanently damaged the relationship, but he got over it eventually. I did exactly what you did and offered to publish a correction to prior incorrect claims and he refused to do this in exactly the same way.
I don't really care anymore. I got my PhD publishing only correct results, but in the end there was no future in academia for me after tanking my relationship with my supervisor early on.

>>12386530
You sound fucking retarded.

>>12386708
What are you working with nowadays? Was it easy to transition into industry?

>>12386001
based retard

>>12386773

If you think that humans need to get over the fact that they cannot prevent climate change, then we're on the same page.

>>12381708
>Europe
Can you be a bit more specific? Some are really dire, others are better.

>>12386774
I don't do anything science related. My home country has no industry.

>>12386934
No industry? Where is this??

>>12386527
That's a surface-level comparison, cheating on your partner is impulsive dissolute behaviour, which brings you no concrete results, and you can choose not to do it; but falsifying results when you have literally no other option to preserve your career is the exact opposite scenario.
Cheating on your partner is probably correlated with cheating at work and also with career success, because egotistical people do all three of them. But egoism isn't the only possible reason to do something like this

>>12386975
New Zealand.
Makes me angry to see New Zealand held up as a country to aspire to in the media nowadays.

>>12386412
>t. Chink
Kys

Try posting this question on StackExhange anon. Those guys helped me a lot in the past when I had questions and they give great advice. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a similar post already on there

>>12387107
I once posted about being threatened by an advisor and some nerds on stack exchange just accused me of lying lol

>>12387076
I must admit I thought NZ was the land of peace, quiet and gambolling sheep.
As for jobs, checked out this?
https://www.iponz.govt.nz/about-iponz/careers/
Such places will always need more people and can appreciate a PhD.

>>12387186
Yeah, you'd think.
The government people you go to for employment stuff here basically asked me why the fuck I came back from overseas and outright told me there isn't much skilled work here. Same thing happened with almost all the people I know with phds in nz. Almost everyone just gives up and leaves the country, I just decided to leave science as a hobby.

>>12387778
Thought about doing a startup? It is a high risk venture and best done while you are young.

>>12381690
You have to record his demands on video.
Pocket moviestudios are the true game changer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ziu2ygE_Wc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4NnCAZcxHg

>>12381690
You can obey and keep evidence of their corruption and blackmail each other. See you at the party.

>>12389655
Read Retraction Watch. It will show you that these guys are well above the law, act with impunity and will not be stopped. I can only assume the reason they are in cahoots or are in a mutual blackmail ring with other leading academics who then have an interest in defending and keeping each other in position.

I have also seen cases here where the universities are perfectly aware of the massive corruption going on but will not act on the flood of information, simply because these frauds have an even larger publication count while the rest of the university hardly publishes. So punishing the frauds will mean the universities will plummet on the annual ranking lists.

You have no idea how deep the rot goes.

>>12389774
>I have also seen cases here where the universities are perfectly aware of the massive corruption going on but will not act on the flood of information, simply because these frauds have an even larger publication count while the rest of the university hardly publishes. So punishing the frauds will mean the universities will plummet on the annual ranking lists.
This is very common

I would expose him only if I was absolutely certain to win this conflict (with hard evidences receivable in court).

If not, I would sign and date a document explaining the whole situation and the fact that I was coerced into publishing fraudulent material, send it to an independent and accredited law organisation so it can date, sign, encrypt and store it on their side, before publishing the fraudulent study.
Then if the fraud is revealed, I would just have to exhibit the document, dated before the study, to innocent myself.

>>12389864
This shit wouldn't go to court.
The supervisor will most likely drop the student, the university will do nothing, and the student won't have any recourse, and nothing to gain from a court case.

>my slave master at the CIA wants me to bear false witness
>he wants me to say that God's work is wrong and schizo
>we all know it's obviously not wrong
>and we all know the previous reports were dirty lies hatched in the deepest pits of hell
>but since the judge who's going to decide doesn't know shit about anything relevant
>we can fool the judge if we all tell the same lie
>(that's why they have a literal know-nothing as the judge)
>I'm not going to do it though
>mfw

>>12385542
That's a completely different paper with a completely different proof in it.

>>12387778
Why cant you create industry then? Start some factory. The right man at the wrong place can make all the difference in the world

>>12389992
>Why cant you create industry then? Start some factory.
>yeah bro
>just have $100 million cash on hand

>>12390113
> have the perfect nature, something that makes the 1% buy bunker houses at your jurisdiction
> instead of some good it-industry let's start some boom in factories as they did it in 1800s elsewhere

>>12389881
Or even if it went to court you would lose.
We just had a case here in Norway where a PhD student had her work taken by her professor and used in a patent application. She sued, and lost, through some rather contorted arguments and just got final adjudication from the Supreme court, where most, if not all, judges were graduates of the university she sued.
Of course she lost. The professor remains untouchable.

>>12381690
Based. Maybe you have some advisory board/person at your university that can give you legal help or a non-lying professor.
You chose wisely. Now I wish you the best for the followup

>>12381690
What are the laws on hidden recording and video in your part of the world? If someone threatened me that way I'd instead ruin his career to the best of my ability.

>>12385455
classic

>>12381690
Anyone have the image showing statistics that stated most results in "peer-reviewed" studies can't be replicated, not even by their own researchers? Science is a farce now, driven by money and politics.

>>12391910
In here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
This is really ugly in that it has impact on medical treatment for real people. Scientific fraud of this kind should be considered premeditated cold blooded murder where they "payment" the frauds take for the job is advancement in academia.

>>12390222
The problem is that property is so valuable it takes up a huge majority of investment there so the startup environment is shockingly bad as a result. Almost all investments are worse than simply buying property and sitting on it, which increases in value by roughly 6 figures a year in those parts.

>>12391775
There's very little chance you could ruin his career even with recordings.

>>12389939
Why did you include a picture of mr clean in your paper?

>>12381690
>I don't give a fuck. I will not publish wrong things, and I will publish questions to the current wrong existing results.
>I didn't become a scientist to lie for money. >My career is over but at least I can live with myself.

Fucking based, anon. I would try to do the same in your position.
Really, there's no price, fame or career that pays for authenticity and integrity.

And even if he ruins your supposed academic path (which may not fully happen), you'll be able to find another road from where you're at.

Tell your story with pride, I'm sure many people will understand and respect you for it.

>>12395369
>Tell your story with pride, I'm sure many people will understand and respect you for it.
True.
I lost my job twice in industry since I did not compromise on integrity. Would do so again!

Academia is such a scam

>>12389992
industry is propped up by states and empires, you retard. you can't just suddenly make it. nz is structured against it.

>>12387122
yea stackexchange is especially awful because their answers are usually shit but they pretend to be all so professional.

>>12390272
>>12389881
why the fuck is academia just some power-hungry sociopaths gloating

>>12397623
How do we fix it?

>>12398227
Some are perhaps the type of people he complained about. Stackexchange is the pits.

>>12398917
>How do we fix it?
We start our own scientific community, without black jacks and the hookers.

>>12381690
holy shit based as fuck

>>12381690
catch him in the parking lot and beat him within an inch of his life, show up at his home, make his life miserable, intimidate him, bully him, fuck his wife.

>>12381690
you know what to do bro
https://www.amazon.com/EVISTR-Digital-Recorder-Activated-Playback/dp/B07CPNR79C/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=tape+recorder&qid=1606691337&sr=8-3

>>12400996
in reverse order maybe: fucking his wife for a young and a smarter guy would be a piece of cookie. Gosh, it could make such a good movie about the lack of scientific integrity and where it may lead. It could look like Breaking Back in reverse: a bold and self-confident professor loses all his arrogance and shit. Would watch. Only don't make the protagonist a naughty bully, make him force himself being that mean, show his iternal sufferings when he convinces himself that it's a good thing to do, that evil should be always punished.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtvatgaIpmM#t=4h20m55s (4:20:55)

>>12401115
Not the best book to start reading the author.
Here's the good three:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x76izh4Ru34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnkitVubVnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nyGpqGg1RU[

Back in the day when I did my PhD, I was told a story about two students who were fed up with their PI stealing the results from their lab books and publishing in his name solely.
So they concocted a result based on experiments never done and true to form the PI nicked it and had it published. It was plausible enough to get it through the editors but wrong enough not to be reproducible. So a few years later the fraud was uncovered, the PI had none to blame and his career tanked.