/sci/ - Science & Math

Starlink-L15 launch thread! 100th F9 launch, first 7x F9 booster launch
>>12383557

IT'S HOPPENING

>>12383629
>static fire + Maybe another starship launch
Based, any plans for ULA to launch that satellite in the next year?

>>12383646
They're busy painting "results over rhetoric" over the toilets in the office.

>>12383643
tfw hoovercamp

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN IMAGE LIMITERINO!!!1111111
REEEEEEEEEEE WHAT ABOUT MY HECKIN STARSHIP MEMERINOS!!!!!!!111

>>12383646
they're busy honking bro

>>12383660
>golf on the moon
Imagine the comfy

>>12383660
Mad?

SN8 on it's own, without Superheavy, is bigger than Shuttle. It flies next week.

IT'S HOPPENING.

>>12383663
>HOOOOOOONK
>*extra crispy TPS*
>cricket sounds
That was fucking ridiculous. I still can't believe it happened.

watching the static fire in slow-mo it looking like they staggered engine ignition. Good idea it seemed to not destroy the ground as hard.

>>12383669
it's even bigger than that big gay tank. Ridonkulous

>>12383670
>the announcer enthusiastically says "LIFTOFF!!" right as it's clear that it wasn't happening

>>12383643
Who the fuck is hoovercamp and why are they in this screencap?

>>12383686
>>12383670
https://youtu.be/O0g7YL3RzT8?t=6

it's clear that this thing was not designed to be aborted at the last second

https://twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1331386567970017280?s=20
That's such a cool video. Not sure why it only loads on my phone, though.

>>12383686
Yes, rockets are finally getting bigger again after a 40 year decline from the Saturn V to the Shuttle to whatever the fuck ULA was doing and F9.

>>12383669
My ancestor :)

>>12383670
>bigger
>but less than half the payload capacity

>>12383703
https://streamable.com/bu8w1z

>>12383711
Hydrolox first stages, anon. Not even once.

>>12383669
Anyone wanna do the math to see what kind of performance SN-8 would get if they replaced the 3 Raptors with RS-25s and altered the tank volumes to store the proper hydrolox mixture ratio? I suspect it wouldn't be able to even get off the ground.

how does F9's 2nd stage compare to other 2nd stages? I think I read somewhere that it's oversized? I know that because of RP-1 it has lower ISP but higher thrust, but I didn't know if there were any other general differences.

>2/3 chance of failure

>>12383718
Raptor: 2.2MN, but Wiki doesn't say whether that's vacuum or sea level
RS-25: 2.2MN vacuum, 1.8MN sea level

>altered the tank volumes to store hydrolox
I have no idea how I'd even calculate that but for reference the entire SLS stack (minus SRBs) weighs less than Starship so you'd need a long fucking tank to get equivalent propellant mass

>>12383730
High winds, high seas, and heavily used.

>>12383730
YES

>>12383730
SN15 is the new block sounds like

>>12383715
She's getting too fat

>>12383730
>also we may or may not be targeting Senator Shelby's house for the first downrange landing tests

>>12383736
"No."

>>12383722
F9's upper stage is both oversized for the rocket it flies on (to enable RTLS, the first stage can't be too high or too fast so the second stage needs to be bigger) and lower efficiency than a hydrogen upper stage like Centaur. That's why Falcon 9 and Heavy are exceptionally capable at putting mass into LEO, but quickly drop off in capability for higher orbits.

>>12383735
legs are contentious

>>12383736
that pic was from a while ago, forgot what launch

>>12383670
WOW look at the SIZE o that thing!

lol compare the pictures wokeipedia uses for RS-25 and Raptor
>virgin high budget launch photography of an RS-25 static fire
>chad engine on a pallet by the shed

>>12383740
That's why someone needs to make hydrolox kickstages for Starship.
>hey what's our weight budget for this thing anyway
>100 tons lol
>time for six RL-10s, see you fuckers at Jupiter

>Top two richest men have space companies
What a time to be alive

>>12383741
The eternal debate. Thigh highs or no thigh highs?

>>12383763
Bezos has a space company?

>>12383735
>engines more mature. Guess they'll be using 50+ in the new SNs. RIP to the ones in SN8

>>12383784
who?

>>12383784
>>12383791

I've been brainstorming some ideas with a work colleague of mine. We've been discussing how humans can lessen the effect of the inevitable fossil fuel crash. Y'all tell me what you think.

>mandate that electric power be supplied to each home for a maximum of 84 hours per week
>mandate that 50% of the workforce operate between 5pm and 5am
>prohibit the ownership of more than one gasoline powered vehicle
>streamline public transportation
>impose a tax hike on anyone who has more than 3 children
>tax credits given to businesses that retool to better meet the requirements of a fossil fuel free future
>tax credits given to vulnerable communities that would otherwise be driven into poverty or homelessness by the changes
>heavily regulate the size of newly built homes
>return to the nationwide 55mph speed limit for the US, metric countries could use 90kmh
>implement a rigorous health and fitness program to decrease overall caloric intake and decrease money wasted on medical bills
>invest in food preservation techniques and other alternatives that would help reduce unnecessary waste
etc.

>>12383760
Refueling Starship in LEO lets you throw 150,000 kg payloads directly to Jupiter intercept. You don't actually need a kick stage unless you're going part Uranus.

>>12383841
I think you're a fucking Communist in dire need of a rope necktie.

>>12383850
More dV lets you get there faster.

>>12383841
yeah you are retarded mate
gj

>>12383841
Sounds like hell. I'll take the warm weather and societal collapse in the global south, please.

>>12383841
You're going to spark extreme social unrest and civil war doing that. May as well skip to just doing real war and deleting the worst offending populations on Earth.

>>12383715
i wish she would take that shirt off

>>12383850
How much fuel does starship reserve once it makes it to orbit without a single refuel? To me it seems like starship is technically capable of doing everything the space shuttle was intended to do, in part because it propulvely lands and therefore doesn’t require stupid ass wing / payload bay design choices because spaceplanes are gay. It’s just a bigass rocket ship that can fly anywhere and do anything

>>12383841
Here's my plan.
>make more nuclear reactors
>change hydrocarbon fuel systems with hydrogen
>use the reactors to crack water into hydrogen
>tax China for being shit commies

>>12383871
*nuke China

Oh fuck please not again.

>>12383746
Bettina is so fucking hot, wish I could fuck her tits and eat her ass

>>12383857
But it's not worth it, because overshooting a Hohmann transfer delta V by more than ~20% rapidly starts to inflate your arrival burn to capture at your target. The fastest we'll be able to get anywhere until we invent direct nuclear pulse propulsion will be to use plasma magnet sails on the way out and chemical (or maybe nuclear thermal) rockets to brake into orbit. Neptune is an exception because it has a big enough magnetobubble that we could also use the sail to slow down again on arrival, meaning you can really hit the gas and get out there by moving at 400 km/s.

>>12383741
What's so hard about how to do it, weight??

>>12383841
Please leave the minecraft server as you are disturbing the players.

>>12383870
>How much fuel does starship reserve once it makes it to orbit without a single refuel?
With max payload, only enough to come back to Earth and land. With no payload Starship can go up beyond geostationary orbital altitude on a high elliptical orbit.

>>12383884
Nah, you don't need that, just some (admittedly rather large) improvements to electrodeless magnetoplasma thrusters and launching some lightweight molten salt fission reactors. That gets you to ~0.1m/s^2 brachistochrones for NEP.

>>12383841
wrong thread dumbass

>F-1 An Ode to Thrust
>Uranus Probe
>Kerbal's Paradise
>National Ass and Swag Agency
>IRFNA Cocktails
>Xeno Booty (censored)
>Over Rhetoric; Over Time
>N1, More Like Fail1

>>12383841
>fuck up California
>flee in droves
>immediately start trying to turn everywhere else into California
You're worse than Muslims

>>12383841
real talk tho
what kind of fucked up voodoo magic would we have to come up with to achieve spaceflight sans fossil fuels?
could we use whale oil?

>>12383911
>Fat Bottomed Bells You Make The Rocket World Go 'Round

>>12383928
Do you think there are fossil fuels on Mars?

>>12383928
>what kind of fucked up voodoo magic would we have to come up with to achieve spaceflight sans fossil fuels?
Hydrolox works fine for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J442-ti-Dhg

SpaceX starlink launch LIVE111

>>12383938
also Russia used to use syntin, methalox is renewable, etc

>>12383932
I'm upset that I didn't come up with that

>>12383841
Some of these things are good, like reducing food waste, encouraging fitness, and finding ways to make use of electricity more efficient, but everything else is retarded dude
Especially the children limit, the USA doesn't have an issue with overpopulation, and people aren't even having kids LMAO
also
>fossil fuel crash
Literally impossible, Nuclear will replace fossil fuel when market pressure makes Nuclear the cheap option

>>12383935
maybe? we won't know until we get there

>>12383938
>>12383941
based
thanks

>>12383939
100th falcon9 launch
7th reflight
both fairings are reflights as well
fairing catch attempt as well

>>12383950
Also if there's that goddamned much CO2 floating around the atmosphere it's going to make plants grow crazy fast, which means farming kelp and processing it for renewal hydrocarbons becomes economical.

>>12383939
>all of that wind at Kennedy
SCRUB ALERT SCRUB ALERT SCRUB ALERT

>>12383939
thank god spacex has a stream. fuck das and the nsf guys

tfw no blonde messy hairy space gf

>>12383939
>they want to achieve sub 20 ms by summer 2021

>>12383928
Methane isn't a fossil fuel, it's a renewable hydrocarbon

>>12383953
okay well the answer is probably not, so Musk plans to make methane from CO2 and water. Hydrolox can be made with just water.

>>12383973
Mass starlink invites going out in late jan-early feb. Neat.

i wish musk wasn't such an insufferable faggot,he's done some great stuff

>>12383985
post hand and bench 1rm

>>12383959
apparently there was hail an hour ago

that wind isn't gonna let up, is it

>>12383973
how would one get that low of a ping via satellite?

>>12383985
Only reason he looks like a insufferable faggot is because you got brainwashed by media.

>>12383990
hail at Kennedy?

>>12383985
>Fucks Grimes on the reg
>gay

>>12384000
muh global warming

>>12383985
He isn't he's based as fuck

>>12383990
Fuck that, we'll do it live.

LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH

>>12383985
interesting how i never heard anyone call him anything but a nerd until his famous "who do you think owns the media?" tweet

>>12383995
Massive amount of satellites + software optimizations to remove bottlenecks + more ground stations.

Theoretical latency is into low 8ms, 20ms is decent optimal run.
Also,

LIFT OFF!!!

LAUNCHHHHHHHHHH

>>12384012
He questioned the narrative and then he became an "insufferable faggot" as thats what the leftist media told people to believe.

>>12384012
Why do you think Elon is speedrunning Mars any%? He wants to get the hell out before the ((Great Reset)) from his billionaire peers who are mostly evil fuck wads.

>what are those fucks doing in sfg live posting about the launch, this is the launch thread
>I MAKE THESE FOR A REASON DAMNNIT
Get fucked, faggot. I ain't posting in your thread

Now that's a good shot.

>>12384000
Yeah, hail isn’t super uncommon in southeastern storms.

>>12383985
You only think he's a faggot because the media started turning on him a year ago, in preparation for making him into the new object of universal hate after Orange Man is removed.

>>12384023
his main critiques prior to the tweet were
>le ebin paypal man doesn't know shit about space or cars wtf is he doing
>oh wow i can't believe he smoked weed on joe rogan this dude is not a serious guy
>oh he's just ripping off the government and won't actually go anywhere or do anything
and then one news cycle later it all changed

>>12384044
kino

Entry burn norminal. I love these halo shots.

>>12384059
He's sailing close to the wind.

Why can SpaceX scrub two launches in a day but Blue Origin can't even tweet once

S E V E N

SEVEN

Now we dance

bros space mommy isnt showing off her cleavage
maybe we scared her?

BULLSEYE, NIGGERS

BTFO

>>12384058
No. I'm not talking about the owns the press thing,that was bs. The submarine/pedo guy thing was totally fucked up. Hiring public investigators and spreading rumors about a guy just for thinking what you were doing was gay? I'm sorry but that's not a good idea. He should have sent money to help the trapped kids and not tried to build a magical submarine in a few days.

>>12384073
SpaceX has hype, Blue Origin gets results

>that music coming on slowly

>>12384071
>starlink sats equipped with orbit-to-Earth mininukes to obliterate New World Order strongholds and homes of the elites
>Mars colonies only location in the universe free from the clutches of the SEELE fags
There is hope, bros

You're Tory Bruno. You've claimed reusability isn't economically feasible unless you can reuse the rocket 10+ times. You made that claim when Elon had only reflown a handful of rockets. Elon is now well on the way to 10 flights of a booster and you haven't even started on SMART reuse. What do you do?

THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SEVENTH LANDING

>>12384093
>Blue Origin gets results
[laughs in 960 Starlink satellites]

>>12384100
Reusability isnt economically feasible unless you flow it 10000 times. SpaceX is fake news

>NOO YOU CANT JUST RE USE A BOOSTER SEVEN TIMES YOU HAVE TO PORK BARREL THE TAX PAYER FOR THIRTY YEARS NOOOO

>All this wasted money to land a rocket a few times
So? Refurbishing rockets costs almost as much as making a new one, what's the point? They might as well take advantage of the lost dV instead of doing this pony trick

>>12384071

>>12384100
Force the Twitter interns make me look hip and relevant again

>>12384100
Tell SNC to fix Dreamchaser's shit so at least the spaceplane part of the rocket is fully reusable and add some tiny parachutes to the Atlas V SRBs.
>look guys, I made a shuttle!

>>12384093
>Blue Origin gets results
That's why New Shepard is flying people right now?

>>12384110
By the third launch it's all profit.

>>12384110
Reminder that it's currently around $25 million per Falcon 9 launch
>$1500/kg reusable
>$1000/kg expendable

>>12384100

But how can they do a good job without orange?

>>12383730
Gonna look great when the flaps ripnoff and it slams into ground sideways.

>>12384119
yeah, next year dumass. also, i dont see elon launching any commercial astronauts. virgin galactic and blue origin will both launch commercial astronauts before spacex. that's because spacex is all hype

>>12384110
>Refurbishing rockets costs almost as much as making a new one, what's the point?
Make it so that refurbishment costs much less than making a new one.

>>12384131
Reusable also allows faster launch turnover which is letting SpaceX break records and actually meet their starlink time frames which will pay out in droves.

>>12384110
Burnedf00t fags get the rope

>>12384135
Needs the stache.

>>12384142
>i dont see elon launching any commercial astronauts
Next year "dumass".

>>12384137
There was no orange Saturn, Shelby.

>>12383879
I think killing everyone in india and brazil and declaring the countries as wildlife sanctuaries where humans are shot on sight would do more.

>>12384110
>>All this wasted money to land a rocket a few times
what's it like to be this stupid? i'm genuinely curious

>>12384137
All Florida rockets are orange powered.

>>12384148
Nice and quick deploy tonight

>>12384100
the kicker is, for F9, you only need about 3 flights before it prints money, not 10. tory mustve been talking about Atlas lmao

>>12384161
Brazil actually does a decent job at conservation these days. India and China not so much.

Glad to see you youngins are keeping the oldest tradition of /sci/ alive.
All of you make me proud.

>>12384113
Tory posts on r/spacexmasterrace lol

Should paint one F9 orange.

>>12384092
>Hiring public investigators and spreading rumors about a guy just for thinking what you were doing was gay?
Seems based to me.
Anyway that guy was obviously a nonce
1) "Expat" in Thailand
2) Sinister anglo features

>>12384167
But brazils are all around annoying cunts.

>>12384176
I have a better idea.
>get orange 8m hydrolox tank
>launch it empty as payload on Starship along with some station keeping engines, sunshade, etc.
>D E P O T
>offer it as free use for ULA or any other American company
>watch Shelby seethe

>>12384159
>New Shepard will go straight up with astronauts and go straight down before SpaceX takes private astronauts to the ISS
checkmate musk, beat you to first booster reuse too

>>12384184
>Richard Shelby Memorial Depot, brought to you by Starlink(tm)

>>12384186
cope spacex stan

>>12384044
very nice

>>12384173
who the hell are you

>>12383670
>unlimeted

>>12384186
It's the only reason BO does anything, to snipe achievements before SpaceX.

>>12384189
While I appreciate what spacex is doing to advance spaceflight and international communication, I worry we are losing something essential. That is, a good clear night for research of various cosmic phenomena.
I was at green bank for some work not too long ago and we had to Stow the dish for a while due to starlinks downlinks having variant harmonics that interfered at the hydrogen line.

I was rather disappointed in that. Took us offline during a GRB event we wanted to do a study on.

That being said, I don't disapprove of the intent. Rather I agree with those who applaud their continuing effort to reduce the negative impacts Starlink has on astronomy.

Not even Electron can escape the HONK
https://youtu.be/Vpsfy4npMhY?t=6

>>12384199
One of the people who used to do these threads back from 2009 until about 2013.
I kind of fell off the face of the earth because I got antarctica duty, then I was out in Arecibo until 2018.

Not good internet in the south to be honest with you....

>>12384212
>I worry we are losing something essential. That is, a good clear night for research of various cosmic phenomena.
Put the telescopes above Starlink

>>12384212
The faster Musk can get enough money to do goofy Mars and Moon shit the faster a off world observatory invalidates all of earth based astronomy.

>>12384219
There are some studies concerning that which I would love to see come to fruition.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2007.02946.pdf
Unfortunately, as much as I appreciate the work Hubble and eventually Webb (will) be doing, ground work is negatively affected by this. And there are plenty of operations that are done on the ground.

Why has landing with engines replaced landing with wings/parachutes for reusable spacecraft components?
Is it that landing with engines is better but the technology wasn't adequate? Is it that landing with wings is better on paper but introduces lots of new difficulties?

>>12384138
that would be sick. Not sure if I want to see a spectacular RUD or and actual landing more

>>12384212
Unless you're either doing big telescope or long period astrophotography it literally doesn't matter, and for scientific purposes the cost reduction to orbit in the next few years will greatly outweigh the loss of ground based observation. The problem is in this brief period when Starlink is flying but Starship isn't.

>>12384221
With Starship you could totally build a 30 meter telescope on Olympus Mons, and there wouldn't be any pissy natives trying to shut you down.

>>12384217
thanks gramps

>>12384214
>>12384136
>>12383701
>>12383713

>>12384222
Parachutes require a water landing. Which means that freshly oxidized metals will be introduced to a salt water (corrosive) environment.
A winged landing hasn't been practical due to surface area heating and the difficulties of air flow over control surfaces as it relates to aerodynamic stresses. To be fair, Musk Voluntarily chose that route as a means to reduce the total stress on a rockets components.

>>12384222
Wings and parachutes are dead weight, so removing them reduces dry mass. As far as I know the primary problem SpaceX overcame was flight control. Consider that Shuttle was manually landed by a human pilot, something you can't do with F9.

>>12384138
That definitely won't happen. That'd only happen if the flaps weren't built strong enough to endure the expected forces, something which would definitely have been considered and calculated already.

>>12384224
Most ground based astronomy is still large scope based. Even amateurs (Who contribute greatly to the science still believe it or not) routinely use 250 mm scopes. To say nothing of the VLBI project.

>>12384244
wonder what they'll do with SN8 if she survives

>>12384222
Rocket goes up, rocket comes down

Can't explain that. - OLDSPACE

>>12384217
>Not good internet in the south to be honest with you....
Hopefully Starlink solves this, glad to have you back anon.

>>12384233
Hey I remember sts-110...
I was 16 at the time. Nothing really special about it really. I just excitedly posted onto forums because internet speeds in my hometown were finally fast enough that I could stream NASA tv.

>>12384221
build on the moon then lol

>>12384248
What will they do with Starships 9 through to 15 if SN8 fails catastrophically and the problem is with the whole first block of Starships?

I wonder how much profit SpaceX makes off of F9 launches. 60mil seems pretty cheap. Even for a reusable rocket.

>>12384255
What will they do with the further SNs if SN8 works perfectly the first time?

>>12384260
Wait, shit, we actually might know the answer already. Point to point demo flights. They promised the Air Force a 1H/21 P2P demo.

>>12384212
do you think that starlink could be improved to the point that these negative effects are negligible? Or are these downsides inherent to the design?

>>12384255
Drop them on ULA.

>>12384260
that would be an unsettling result. It never feels right when you do something knew and then do it perfectly the first time.

>>12384248
Test it a few more times probably.
Being able to succeed several times in a row would be valuable information.
Exploding and knowing why it exploded would also be valuable information.

>>12384263
That'd be pretty bitchin' actually. Any hint at when that demo flight is supposed to be, or do we not know yet?

>people born during the Reconstruction Era saw the first powered flight at kitty hawk when they were ~30 years old and lived to see the moon landings when they were 90+ years old
fascinating thought

>>12384273
No clue, it was mentioned somewhere in an Air Force press release, Elon hasn't said anything.

>>12384264
Attitude and panel alignment helps immensely. The light reduction system they've begun implementing after the AAS complained about it helped to really push them into addressing the issue.
https://www.universetoday.com/145949/spacex-describes-exactly-how-theyre-planning-to-make-starlink-satellites-less-visible-from-earth/
To date some constellations have reduced light footprints. But it's not quite acceptable yet. Getting there, but not quite.

That being said, no matter how many people move off world to do astronomy on the moon or mars, there will still be entire generations that turn their eyes skyward and embark on their own journeys of discovery, learning what the heavens above hold.
We have a duty to if nothing else, give them a chance to look and enjoy the wonders that are out there.

>>12384260
Few more 15km flights.

>>12384274
>species progresses from wood and cloth shaky hop to landing on the moon in less than a human lifetime
I wonder if, among intelligent life, this is considered fast, slow or normal?

>>12384255
Just scrap them.

>>12384260
More flights to test different landing profiles and different ways to attach the heat shield tiles.

>>12384276
you mean the US TRANSCOM press release?

>>12384277
now you're just being sentimental. I wanna know what kind of astronomy is best suited on earth vs space or the moon. i cant think of any

Was Gnome Chompski on the first or second stage?
Did he come back to Earth or turn into a crisp?

>>12384305
Based on the cameras, it appears it was in the 2nd stage. It's going to burn up as the stage orbit decays

>>12384299
It's not a question of best.
So you're asking for a "Well which is best?" When the question assumes that the merits of one invalidates the need for the other. This is a false dichotomy. Adaptive optics has corrected the major issues that were supposed to be addressed by putting a telescope in orbit, thereby rendering the impetuous to do so moot. telescopes on the ground provide a few major advantages. The most obvious of these is that they are on the ground, making them easier to access. Although a large percentage of astronomical observations are carried out remotely by astronomers, some researchers still carry out their studies at the telescope, and ground-based observatories are much easier to visit. Repairs and upgrades to telescopes are also much easier to carry out on the ground than in space. Some space-based observatories, like the upcoming James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), orbit so far from Earth, that visits to repair or update the instruments are impossible.

Another factor in the favor of keeping telescopes on the ground (when possible) is cost. For identical telescopes, it is much less expensive to build a telescope on the ground than to place it into orbit around the Earth or the Sun.

The atmosphere of Earth will always block most wavelengths of the em spectrum. When observing at those frequencies, we will forever need to place instruments above the atmosphere. However, when studying targets in visible and short-wavelength radio waves, ground-based observatories are here to stay for a long time. Even with the reductions of cost to access space that spacex is providing. After all, it will still cost millions of dollars to visit the moon, and that cost certainly won't be borne out by a college sending its graduate students to study.

>>12384271
This, you almost want to fail early sometimes.

>>12384313
I mean starlink is kinda of known factor right? Shouldn't it be easy enough to filter out its effects? Sure it wouldnt be perfect but I dont see why it isnt possible

>>12384299
And... to be fair, I could just begin listing reasons that even spacex won't be able to solve in the next 20 years. Credit where credit is due, but the accessibility of space still is prohibitive. And there are many more reasons why it's still impractical to just move all astronomy off world. One perfect example is the VLBI which took that wonderful image of the Black hole that made the rounds in the news. That's not something easily done from orbit. Ground-based infrastructure is far superior to anything you have in space. Want to keep your spacecraft cool? Better bring all the coolant you'll need for the duration of the mission, and/or hope your passive cooling system never gets damaged. Infrared telescopes can be cooled indefinitely; repairs can be made by human hands in real-time; new parts and people can be shipped in at a moment's notice. It's a remarkable feat that Hubble has lasted for nearly 30 years, but it's taken multiple servicing missions to make it so. On the ground, telescopes that are half a century old are still returning cutting-edge science. There's no contest.

Space telescope technology is obsolete, even before it's launched. In order to launch a space telescope, you need to decide what you're going to try to do with it, design-and-build your instruments, integrate them on board the observatory, and then launch it. For a mission like the James Webb Space Telescope, the design of its instruments was complete at the beginning of the decade; an instrument built today would have approximately seven years of superior technology integrated into it. Servicing a telescope in space is costly, risky, and in some cases (like when your telescope is out of reach of a crew-carrying spacecraft), practically impossible. But if your observatory is on the ground? Simply pop out the old instrument and pop in the new one, and your old telescope is state-of-the-art once again, to the limit of its optical design.

>>12384265
Reminds me of this:
https://youtu.be/M8VyvIcNIgk?t=654

>>12384319
(Looks like the name system reset itself there... odd)
Starlinks panels reflect sunlight. Which, in the case of a number of the surveys, introduces additional photons into long term collections which are measuring photemetry of stars for the purposes of ascertaining more physical evidence of dark matter and molecular clouds.
While it would be nice for them to be able to filter out the reflected lights from starlink, the fact is that spectrally, the light looks the same as starlight so there are no good patterns which can be applied for filtration purposes.

Again though, I recognize and applaud Spacex. My concerns are minor and do not imply that they should stop. Rather they should be more expedient in dealing with the reflected light problems.

Do we have to continue to bully Blue Origin for them to finally do something worthwhile? Fucking shit man. It's cool as shit seeing Spacex having this kind of rate of taking payload to space, and furthering their starship& starlink plans all the time.

Imagine having a 2nd company have half of this success?

>>12384320
>Space telescope technology is obsolete, even before it's launched. In order to launch a space telescope, you need to decide what you're going to try to do with it, design-and-build your instruments, integrate them on board the observatory, and then launch it. For a mission like the James Webb Space Telescope, the design of its instruments was complete at the beginning of the decade; an instrument built today would have approximately seven years of superior technology integrated into it.

The problem is you are still stuck in the old space mindset in regards to telescope. If starship is all its hyped up to be, musk claims sub 100$/kg launch prices. In that world you dont need to do several years of testing, you launch the best you can make and if it fails you replace it, instead of using radiation hardened hardware use redudant systems because you can afford the weight. The game changes completely.

>>12384274
>be American
>born in 1875
>grandpa tells you stories about how he and Thomas Jefferson got drunk together once when he was a teenager and Jefferson was a sad old man
>he tells you stories about how his dad fought against the British in 1812
>tells you how his grandaddy fought against them in the Revolution
>your dad tells you stories from when he fought for the Confederacy
>you fight in the Spanish-American war
>you see the first powered flight at Kitty Hawk in 1903
>you live to see proliferation of the automobile
>your children fight in The Great War
>you read about the Russian Revolution in the newspaper
>live through the roaring twenties
>live through prohibition
>live through the depression
>your grandkids fight in the second World War, one doesn't come back
>live to see the rise of the atomic age
>watch JFK's assassination live on TV
>your great grandkids fight in the Vietnam War
>on July 20, 1969 you watch live as man sets foot on the moon for the very first time
this has to be fast even for ayyyyys
it's spoopy as fuck when you think about it

>>12384333
I am sorry I meant it in a different way, You know when starlink will be over head and if you know how much light starlink is reflecting why cant you just minus that amount from your incoming photons at the time periods that starlink is overhead.

>>12384368
My great-grandfather grew up listening to war stories from Civil War veterans and lived to see the Space Shuttle. I think that what parts of the West's problems can't be traced to (((rootless cosmopolitans))) stem from too much change too quickly. Normies can't adapt to a world where everything technical they learned growing up is obsolete by the time they have kids, or they can't separate the technical from the moral and go full hedonist.

>>12384368
I remember the Animorph book series having the alien character Ax react with unnerved surprise at how quickly humanity went from cloth and wood to spaceflight, remarking that his species took three times as long to cover the same ground.

>>12384313
I reckon that desigining and building a telescope to operate in space is a lot simpler than building one on the ground, if you plan to attach it to a space station.
You don't need a sturdy structure or strong motors, because it's a weightless environment.
Power is already covered, just use the space station.
There's people already present to do maintenance, in the space station.
You don't need onboard propulsion, unless you don't have a way to attach it to the station without giving the telescope its own thrusters.

There'll no doubt be a new space station once Starship becomes the workhorse of the space industry, because it could easily make up for the inadequacies of the ISS. Not only is the cost per tonne thousands of times lower and the overall transport capacity nigh-unlimited, each launch carries far more payload, meaning modules can be far larger; and larger modules have a higher volume:mass ratio, which means the ability of Starship to construct gigantic space stations is that much greater.

>>12384393
Wasn't Ax an Andalite? I figure any species that can survive by grazing is going to have an extended development path compared to hunters, because it's far harder to run out of food.

>>12384350
I don't want to suppress your opinion but your solution is very wasteful and inefficient. The fact is that doing it that way still makes for very expensive operations. It's not old space. It's a very real limitation that will always be there.

Consider this, if you launch something with redundant systems and the cause of failure is radiation related (As most failures in flight are) then all you've done is sent up a bunch of redundant failures in lieu of one quality product. So your cost increases as you keep sending up missions that fail on orbit. Let's use that 100$/kg launch price. It's still unattainable for 15 years but It's a nice round number.
A standard space telescope such as the james webb is 6,500 kg which is lower than the hubble at around 11000 kg.
That's 650000 per telescope.
If we use the average lifetime of electrical components in space without radiation protection, we see a failure after 130 days on average. So that would mean sending up 3 650000 dollar telescopes every year. so that's 1.95 million dollars of additional expenses. That may not seem like much but the average ground based telescope has a one time cost of 10 million as a high mark (Assuming it's not a major project like the VLBI) and sub 100K yearly operational costs.
So, you've incurred the cost of building a new telescope of 5 million every time, plus an additional 650K in launch costs, plus the fact that you need 3 telescopes a year on average to replace your failing ones, and you see it adds up to being more cost effective to just build on the ground.

It's not an old space mentality, it's a cost benefit analysis for project management purposes.
If I was to be submitted with 2 proposals, and one cost way more than the other because we had to keep replacing a scope in orbit multiple times a year, and I was only allocated a total of 10 million from the NSF for 3 years of operation, I would have to go with the ground based option. By necessity.

i wish elon would update the starship user manual. GIMME MY UPDATE MUSK, YOUR CUSTOMER DEMANDS IT

>>12384393
based

>>12384406
Yep, and solid point. Keep in mind as well, Andalites are an example of an uplifted species thanks to the Ellimist, so they may not be a good example of a natural evolution.

>>12384408
Radiation hardening is one of the things that gets easier as your mass budget gets looser though, because you can just add more bulk shielding

>>12384410
Only rockets launching Earth monitoring satellites will be allowed to launch, pending NOAA approval

>>12384394
Actually it's simpler to build on the ground. Guidance systems alone make alignment and compensation a pain in the 4th point of contact. In space, your attitude adjustments have to maintain a single fixed point in space for the duration of 1 orbit (90 minutes) plus the progression of earth along its own orbit. On top of that, RCS control systems use fuel, which is already a scarce resource. Then using reaction wheel systems means you have to design and program the alignment platform and guidance system. On top of that, you need redundancy to ensure that the system will operate in the event of failure. Meanwhile, you can simply program a 4 degree per hour driver on earth using a series of servo motors and the supports. And on top of all that, there are still the problems of replacing failing parts, coolant, hardware hardening (Which already makes the telescope obsolete before launch) and much else. All of these are issues that even with the reduced cost of flights makes having pure spaceborne telescopes rather prohibitive even with the advances. Meanwhile it is an easier solution to simply adjust orbital characteristics of already deployed satellites and allow for their reflective index to be lower.

>>12384423
I see hear on the flight manifest Elon that you're launching 4 tons of weather satellite and 196 tons of Mars colony equipment

>>12384368
It really is amazing. I love this country.

>>12384217
How do i get hired to go to Antarctica? Not as a tourist, I want to work there.

>>12384425
The real advantage of the "fuck your ground astronomy" option is that it limits astronomical advances to Americans plus the foreigners that the US government allows to buy large Starship launches, and acts as camouflage for anything we want to do in MEO/GEO/cislunar space, and it means that colleges who want to study the stars will have to withdraw money from their feminist underwater basket weaving programs to fund space station and telescope access.

>>12384449
spam NSF USAP with applications. If ganaayoo is still doing the services contracting then just apply to be a dishwasher through em

>>12383741
There are 4 religions

>>12384451
Pardon me but fuck you.
That "America first, fuck the rest" has hurt far more than it has helped. If we applied the America first to scientific discoveries we never would have made half the important astronomical discoveries we have made in the past. To say nothing of the VLBI project.

I have nothing further to say to you. You frankly disappoint me.

>>12384423
a few of them will be monitoring earth. But they'll be in orbit around mars.

>>12384255
Depends on when it fails catastrophically, it's only a failure if you didn't learn anything

>>12384472
>That "America first, fuck the rest" has hurt far more than it has helped.
Demonstrably incorrect. I'll trade slower advances in astronomy for better odds of survival any day.

>>12384274
It really bothers me how much people take technology for granted and as "the normal". Both forwards and backwards. They don't realize how life multiple centuries before electricity were hardly distinguishable, and they don't understand how fast technology is progressing and life and people will be significantly different in their final years on earth.

>>12384425
Did you read the "attach it to a space station" part?
The telescope doesn't need RCS or a reaction wheel, all it needs is to attach to the space station.
If a part fails, just send up another on the next flight to the space station, no need for the same level of redundancy used for independent space telescopes.
Definitely a more practical solution than altering the operation of what will eventually be 42,000 satellites that will eventually be considered vital infrastructure.

>>12384100
Bite the bullet and just pitch a depot to NASA because at this point I need to make them and Shelby & Co. look like bigger dumbasses

>>12384472
I knew this was gonna happen. The world has changed, this board is a more hostile lower iq place than it was back in the day old timer. You should leave now before your old memories are tainted by what it has become.

>>12384491


>>12384491
> slower advances in astronomy for better odds of survival any day.
Why are you here then coward.

>>12384523
To drop rocks on Beijing and Tel Aviv. Open exchange with people who want you dead or enslaved is suicide.

Space gf *.*

>>12384520
So it would seem. I have heard rumors about those kids on pol and how white nationalists have taken it over. But I had hoped that they had not spread their influence elsewhere. Least of all a personal favorite board I was here for the start of and was centered around actual topical discussions. It would seem that the small minded have tainted a place I had viewed fondly.

>>12384532
Take me back

>>12384534
You've been up an ivory tower for most of a decade while the world went to shit in your absence. If you're not stocked up on non-perishable supplies and ammunition, start now.

>Delta IV has only a couple of launches left before it is retired
>ULA all of a sudden starts having delay issues
I wonder if those contracted launches are cost-plus

>>12384534
Don't worry. They're still reeling from their electoral defeat. I'm confident the cunts will go back to their caves as they no longer feel confident that they're in control. It's a slow process but America not shying away from word affairs will slowly settle things down.

>>12384548
One can only hope. After all, I believe it safe to say that, based upon electoral results, a vast majority of Americans do not hold their view. No granted, this is not the board to speak of politics in. So I will refrain.

I can instantly tell the difference between one of them and a regular user here though. Consider the two responses. One was basically a conspiracy filled rant, while the other (yours) was a response to the state of things.
I appreciate yours.

>>12384546
>All of a sudden

ULA has been having delay issues for almost a few years now. ULA laid off a few thousand workers a few years ago and that likely affected QA and various processes

Performance will not affect cost plus contracts. Those are completely political and will be maintained by the appropriate Senators

>>12384548
>not shying away from word affairs
You know what this means right? More wars for oil.

>>12384430
>One chance at life
>Be born into the greatest country in human history

We're all going to make it bros

space shuttle dry weight was 82t

why was its payload so shitty?

>>12383735
If they already know what they're doing with SN15, what's the point of SN9-14? Multiple of them will probably never make it to the test stand. It reminds me of when they had a test flight regime planned out for SN5 and SN6, but they decided instead that SN8 was ready and SN5/6 would be retired.

>>12384556
Oil is good, eat it you faggot, I will give you the greypill.

>>12384570
They really should be testing multiple tanks at a time.
I guess there is a Raptor bottleneck keeping them from doing it? I'm sure there is a good reason.

>>12383841
>you can only own one car
You can only drive one car anyway, fucknuts. You guys sure make a great team!

>>12384583
Ban private automobile accidents. The death rate is too high, this is an epidemic.

>be foreign space agency
>have astronaut
>want to get him a ride into space
>contact nasa and/or spacex
>nasa and/or spacex says if you wish to go into space your country has to take in at least 1 million low iq lower class American rubes

International cooperation.

>>12384393
I believe that's one of the central plot points of star trek enterprise. At some point it's revealed that the vulcans particularly act like assholes to humans because they advance way too fucking quickly and show emotion on the surface and the combination makes the vulcans jealous that they will be overtaken technologically. Which ends up happening lmao
>>12384562
The power of hydrogen™

>>12384570
In my opinion, it could be just improving, refining, or altering manufacturing methods and operations to see what works the best/fastest/cheapest. With SN5 and SN6, since they seem to be constrained by pad availability, it just made more sense to put the newest version ready to fly on the pad rather than going with multiple flights of an already tested profile.
It's more likely that they put SN9+ through testing (probably just one hop each until the proof -> hop process becomes much quicker) rather than refly SN8 if it survives the 15km flop. Since starships are being completed at a rapid pace, they'll probably want to see how well their "assembly line" produces good starships that don't need a ton of troubleshooting that takes up valuable pad time.

>>12384577
getting that thing in the air quickly is not easy at all. There's a ton of shit that needs to be done. Not a raptor bottleneck they've been churning those things out hardcore

>>12384570
>what's the point of SN9-14?
data gathering and contingency. In some cases I bet they're going to be testing specifically to find where the breaking points are so they obviously need backups. It's better to have too many SNs than too little so that the testing momentum doesn't get halted.

>>12383738
The Architect dreams of the cathedrals he is to realize in Martian gravity.

>>12384555
>ULA laid off a few thousand workers a few years ago and that likely affected QA and various processes
damn. Do you know the story behind this?

>>12384577
>They really should be testing multiple tanks at a time.
their lack of multiple test stands is a current bottleneck, yeah. Though I'm not sure if they have the expertise around to run concurrent testing.

>>12384623
this is a good point. Best way to learn is to do.

>>12384628
there's also the fact that steel is cheap as dirt. So it's not like they lose a ton of resources by building extras

>>12384532

>>12384570
>blow up SN9, discover a problem you can fix on SN15
>blow up SN15, now you're set back to SN9

>>12384532
I bet she looks great naked

>>12384638
Numbers were off but there's a few articles mentioning it was a financial decision
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-ula-layoffs-idUSKCN0XB2HQ

>You will never neuralink with your space waifu

>>12384623
>An entire assembly line of Starships
I can't wait
How long did it take to build each Shuttle?

some of these debris are pretty fucking big.

>>12384656
I think the more important question is how many they can build a month. In an assembly line, the duration of a single build is less important because it is overlapped by many builds at different stages of completion

>>12384660
They expect one our launch pads in the wreckage brother

>>12384656
I wonder what kind of names they're going to give them. Traditional stuff like how the Dragon capsules are named or is Elon going to be cute like "Of Course I Still Love You". Either way one of them has got to be named "Enterprise".

>>12384666
Nice try satan. Enterprise would have been cool like 10 or 20 years ago but now star trek is kill. Maybe I'd be okay with Enterprise so long as there is pics of TOS or TNG in the thing and we just pretend like picard and discovery never happened. I'm also privey to the Spirit of Von Braun. The flagship starships all need really cool names. Musk's cute little names for his droneships are kind of dumb for starship names in my opinion

>>12384173
>All of you make me proud.
thanks dad

>>12383711
Because the falcon heavy numbers are fictional and the delta IV has better beyond earth numbers

>>12384559
thanks for all the hopium frens

>>12384693
If that's the case, why is it called Delta IV and not Delta V?

Falcon 9 glides somewhat during re-entry therefore it's a space plane

>>12384731
>goes to space
>generates lift
>lands and is reflown
absolutely a spaceplane

>>12384481
this is why we test

>>12384532
post the bikini pics

>>12384731
Correct

hey boys ;)

>the Saturn V(pbuh) required kerosene
>kerosene was invented by a canadian
Saturn V confirmed half Canadian? Actually, no. The simple reason is this.
>His father was a Loyalist, who emigrated to Nova Scotia after the American Revolution.
His father may have been a loyalist, but he was an American. Born in New York, even.
Unfortunately, his mother was born in Nova Scotia, and therefore, Allah please forgive me for what I am about to say, a leaf.
The Saturn V was half German, 1/4 American, and 1/4 Canadian.

>>12384819
>kerosene
>invented
it's literally just a distillate of petroleum that's like saying someone invented asphalt

>>12384821
someone did invent asphalt
Edward J. de Smedt did in 1870

>>12384821
Blue Origin invented drone ship landings, and it's ok to admit that

SpaceX should switch Falcon 9 over to syntin

>>12384807
What's he want?

>>12384807
CREW 1 FOR ALL, INSHALLAH

What should be a mandatory requirement for Mars fags to get the green light to go, besides money and mental stability

>>12384832
NROL 66 had the worst patch, NROL 39 had the most memeable patch, and NROL 41's patch should have been the Space Force logo

>>12384844
NROL mission patches are pretty much all epic (except NROL 66)

>>12384843
ability to procreate

>>12384844

I hate this so much

>>12384850
hahaha how is this not based?

>>12384854
>scrolling through the NROL patches
>super high quality work on all of them
>good line art, good concepts
>then you get this fucking abortion of clip art and human suffering
>only patch to fuck with the patch shape

Mommy addresses a Boing shareholders meeting.

>>12384842
Why not wear a jumpsuit in space?

>>12384869
why wear clothes in space? it's wasted mass

>>12384871
Mostly to contain your various fluids and solids.

check out estronauts slowmo coverage of the static fire- https://youtu.be/UESUcDX6R84
the engine ignitions are slightly staggered!

>>12384214
Is the honk actually the sound of destructive harmonics or is that just the sound of fuel valves cutting off the flow?

>>12384230
>and there wouldn't be any pissy natives trying to shut you down
>he doesn‘t know

>>12384222
A rocket already has most of the parts needed for powered landing.
Adding entire wings and maybe jet turbines as the Russians considered is just needless complexity.
That being said, there‘s a difference between first and second stage reuse.

>>12384427
Yes. We need to monitor Mars weather. From the ground with a couple dozen people.

FUCKING EXPANSE FUCKING CANCELLED
THATS WHAT YOU GEt
THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR TRUSTING JEFF BEZOS
oh yeah oh yeah save the expanse we save it FOR A COUPLE OF MORE SEASONS THEN I CANCEL IT

fuckign shits, i hope elon musk buys the show just to make it into a contest show in which the original characters fight with giant q tips on top of a giant reproduction of jeff bezo's bald head

>>12384864
she definitely is one of those "cum without a condom as soon as you get the chance to impregante that fine piece of ladyassbrainsexysuperior" cause you aint never none getting another chance sonny boyiy

>>12384950
good the writers and cast were insufferable leftists and the plot goes to shit after Babylon's Ashes
>muh spooky goths

>>12384843
sensitivity training, no racists, no holocaust deniers, no stupid (right wing) people, the future is new collaboraiton left wing, happy cohexistence cooperation, not sad right wing sad inexistence fialurepathetic (like rightwingsare)

>>12384950
The Expanse is only believable scifi in a world where the UN still exists a hundred years from now. Bezos knows Trump is remaining in office.

>>12384950
Thats just sad. But why do it, people liked it?

>>12384414
Man, it makes me sad that Animorphs can never really be done justice in a financially-viable movie or show format. Thanks to Disney's Lion King abomination, the technology exists to have photorealistic CG animals doing all the crazy stuff you'd need them to do if it were otherwise live action, but it would have to be rated R to be worth a shit.

>>12384221
>Hey mr civilian man, i have this god tier invention that will forever revolutionize space forever and make space cheap bring in an unprecendent stage of cornucopia via practiaclly infinite resources from space 0 g manufacturing of organms for eternal life and the best astronomy that ever ever was ever conceived, the best of the best of astronomy with thousands of telescopes unimaginably bigger than the hubble in environments of 0 interference that will flood humanity with trillion s of units of advancements scientifical astronomical and all of all of all bnetter forever.
>only downside is that shitty obsolete astronomy thats barely useful and mostly done by bored people without ap ersonality that dont have access to sex will maybe suffer a bit for a couple of years.

-NOOOO YOU EVIL BADMAN!!! DONT TOUCH MY SHITTY EARTH ASTRONOMY EVENT OUGH YOU OFFER TO LITERALLY FOREVER BETTER ALL OF ALL OF ALL FOREVER INCREDIBLY GIGANTIC, YOURE CLEARLY DOING ME WRONG BY PUTTING A 0.00000000000000000000001 BAD THING THAT LASTS A MILISECOND IN HISTORICAL TERMS IN EXCHANGE OF A 128018930819023891203809123 times to the 13298012389102381290 good thing forever

>>12384956
Daily reminder that Musk is a White South African who reccomends everyone read Durant's Lessons of History, which is all but explicitly white nationalist.

>>12384842
Is you a blue (origin) or a red (dragon)

>>12384952
She's incredible.
>Those 2000s kwajalein atoll days. Imagine her in a swimsuit.
You just know elon was thinking things.

>>12384819
hydrogen was invented by a Jew, anon

>>12385031
that explains why it ruined spaceflight for decades

>>12385036
it's really funny, using hydrogen for spaceflight is literally a jewish trick

>>12384368
Honestly the technological explosion is not that impressive, just the logical endpoint of intelligent (white) creatures pursuing science and engineering with relative freedom.

>>12384965
Animorphs would be goat tier anime desu. Live action is aids for most stuff.

>>12383730
I guess we will see some nice fireworks then

>>12383691
isn't it spacex's elite engineer recruiting camp?

Elon will save western civilization all by himself. The great man theory is real frens.

Can we expect China-US partnership with the new administration and what are the implications for the Moon and Mars, and space science? I'm reading some headlines in the media that indicate this might be possible as there's desire to fix the relations at least as indicated by some from the Biden team.

>>12385097
why does it look like Elon have no idea this "spacex's elite engineer recruiting camp" exists?

>>12384100
Pretend I never said anything and sign more block buys from the USAF. Assured access to space is vital we can't let a single company monopolize US space access!

>>12384950
>FUCKING EXPANSE FUCKING CANCELLED
Again?
Will Netflix pick it up this time?

>>12384950
Blue Origin doesn‘t even want fictional outreach it seems.

What does everyone think of Nasa's current Astronaut standards? Are they too low or too high? Should they be higher for interplanetary travel than they are for missions aboard the ISS?

>>12385121
>Can we expect China-US partnership with the new administration
No, the US didn't partner up with China back in the 90s for the ISSwhen relations were at a much better point, what makes you think it'll partner up now when relations have been at their worst and everyone is pretty aware of China not being a realiable partner and stealing tech left and right?

>>12385221
because our politicians are retarded

>>12384554
if you want to fellate each other of politics go to reddit namefag

>>12384217
There may have been space threads before, but this /sfg/ specifically started just less than two years ago when suddenly they started building a water tank at Boca Chica. Then after a month or two of being a water tank watch thread it became /sfg/.

>>12385213
Not too low or too high, too retarded. It's based on 1.) pilot experience, a holdover from the airforce camp that brought you forced manualization of the Shuttle and 2.) unfocused requirements in higher education, ie "have a STEM degree", basically a stand-in for having relevant experience and knowledge base because there IS no relevant experience and knowledge base for doing the kind of fake make-work science the ISS does.
The only thing part of NASA's requirements that is relevant to actually being an astronaut is the physical.

any news on the parker solar probe? we found any ayyyyys on the sun yet?

>>12384871
so your dingles don't dangle
and to keep the sand out

How big of a space player do we see the UAE becoming?

>>12385396
they will probably bankroll a lot of the first mars colonies, along with the mormons

>>12384832
cringe
is a month too long for the NRO to go without a LOTR-themed patch?

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3737/1
>To summarize: the entire lunar effort (with robotic missions and Gemini included) would cost $288 billion in today’s dollars. If the US prioritized the project financially the same way it did in the 1960s, the nation would have to spend $702 billion to occupy the equivalent share of GDP.
>the total US defense budget for 2020 alone was $740 billion

>>12384091
Pretty sure thundercuck doesn't hate on spacex very much. He just hates hyperloop and musky

>>12385422
that makes me feel like the US defense budget is smol. or maybe gibs is too large

>>12385422
The US spent $2.6 Trillion on Welfare, Healthcare, and Pensions.

>>12385422
We need more governments involved in space that way the costs are spread around and losing a country's involvement won't hurt as much.

>>12385424
musk is the best part about spacex. does thunderfoot have worms or something? why is he such a stick in the mud

>>12385424
He has said some extreley retarded shit about SpaceX already, like claiming that it was essentially impossible to reuse rockets, that the cost of refurbishment would exceed the value saved by reflight, and some other sundry stupid bullshit that indicates he's illiterate in aerospace like ballparking orbital velocity as 5km/s.
All of it though does stem from impotent personal animus for Elon Musk, who he thinks is some kind of grand scam artist like the kickstarter retards he deboonks, since low hanging fruit is as high as he can go.

>>12385431
Sure, but he just doesn't have the feeling for humor and memes. One of the main moneymakers for tf is his debunking videos, he gets lots of shit from fanboys (and musky fanboys are the worst). I like the videos but he's one sour fucking grape. You've gotta admit that, for a pseudoscience debunker, seeing the number one instigator of the hyperloop and boring company farces being defended by supposedly rational science-lovers would be pretty infuriating.

>>12385439
Ah I should look for that video then, I don't remember one on spacex

>>12385429
Luxembourg and UAE are two countrues that seem amped up for Moon & Mars. Ideally you wouldnt need nations but privately funded expeditions like the Pilgrims in America

>>12385366
Once space travel moves away from NASA and its meaningless research busy work, the requirements will probably return to something more akin to what they were in the 1960s, aka having relevant technical and flight experience. What it should probably look like is the way the US Navy selects for submarine crews, with a stringent baseline physical fitness requirement that then leads to a brutally technical qualification process, even for the "enlisted" type guys going up who don't have degrees. Meanwhile, the "officers" should all be guys with resumes like Bobanddougs.

The goal should be to have a crew with a baseline degree of usefulness that resembles that of a submarine crew, where even the fucking cook has a functional understanding of what to do to secure the boat in the event of a reactor emergency.

>>12385445
on of the things he saud was point to point is bullshit and will never happen. that was before US TRANSCOM decided to ask SpaceX for a demonstration next year lol

>>12385445
It was a while back, I think possibly even before the hyperloop video. His whinging about SpaceX has gone almost completely silent since they completely blew past all of his baseless assertions and reused rockets six (and now seven) times over, fly the cheapest medium lifter in history, and are of course now building an even cheaper, even bigger, even more reusable rocket. His ego is too bloated for him to admit that his analysis of SpaceX was simply outright wrong and founded in ignorance of the topic of spaceflight, so he just hasn't said anything about it.

>>12385453
he did a stream during crew-1 where he doesnt outright say he was wrong. though his tune changed from "TOTAL BOGUS" to "i'm skeptical, i'm not convinced"

>>12384235
>>12384247
how much are professional astronomers paid and how do you become one

>>12384274
damn, imagine living in the old west and living to see to the moon landings

>>12385460
It's such a bullshit "skeptic community" response to just being fuckin wrong. No wonder they got absorbed by the Idpol ameoba so easily, self-deluding levels of ego and outright refusal to admit fault.

>>12383928
>what kind of fucked up voodoo magic would we have to come up with to achieve spaceflight sans fossil fuels?

Uh.....we can produce hydrogen without fossil fuels entirely, and methane too with a bit longer chemical process.

>>12385460
Same thing people day about tesla now. Doomers need to be lined up and spot so human species can move forward without the downward pressure of pessimism

Why only single landing pad for Super Heavy and Starship?

>>12385491
FAA restrictions. Spacex wants to have more and they're trying to convince FAA

>>12384313
Won't sub 30$/kilogram to LEO enable missions to service the JWST anyways? Also, assuming it takes 6 launches to send a starship to the moon, that would still only be 180$/kg to the moon's surface, although it'd probably end up more like 220-250$/kg for humans. Still, even with 250$/kg, it would only cost 80000 dollars to send 4 humans to the moon assuming they weigh 80 kilograms each. Of course its still likely to cost at least two or three times that due to factors which are more difficult to calculate, but still, it wouldn't be millions to send a single person to the moon, or even 4 people.

>>12385491
Man, imagine what this fucking dirt lot might look like in ten or fifteen years.

>>12384472
Of course you're a muh we should unite humanity leftist
I don't know what I should have expected from a namefag

>>12384472
You assume I think fallaciously that putting the interests of America ahead of those of other countries would have no effect to enhance space projects developed by America. America has an enormous and disproportionate productivity for such a relatively small population (compared to say China, or India). To concentrate more of America's resources on this highly productive population might have yielded better, faster, more substantive space science.

>>12385502

>>12385520
He samefagged and concluded that trump was a white nationalist, he clearly isn't who he claims

>>12385488
>we can produce hydrogen without fossil fuels
We CAN, but apparently it's easier to just crack methane and other hydrocarbons. So we don't bother with electrolysis because it's slow and fiddly.

>>12385522
In less than two decades you'll be able to pop on down to Elon's Starship Lot and pick up a refurbished Raptor for twenty grand, only slightly used.

>>12385497
JWST is not designed to be servicable unlike Hubble.

>>12385522
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5NA-j7y7A

>>12385532
That is retarded, imagine spending billions of dollars and working over a decade on a telescope and it doesn't work when it reaches its orbit and you can't fix it.

All you fascists are going to lose. Sad to see /sfg/ has fallen to this shit but I guess nothing lasts forever.

On the topic of refusing to change opinion on SpaceX. Anyone here initially had a negative opinion of SpaceX, but changed? When I first heard of them from the commercial cargo awards, I thought they would go under in a few years. Glad I was wrong

>>12385532
That's utterly ludecreous, I'd go so far as to say that if I were holding purse strings I would be instantaneously suspicious of such a project as an out-and-out attempt to defraud me of money when the worthless machine inevitably fails to operate. "Oh, oops, we can't fix it though it wasn't built to be repaired, thanks for all that funding."

>>12385539
imagine making something serviceable when your constituents can milk more money out of the system if it needs to be replaced entirely

>>12385546
i was a hater before
Elon launching his car into space converted me

>>12385547
I'd imagine that's how the government gets defrauded most of the time.

>>12385541
Go spout buzzwords with definitions that don't match up with dictionary definitions elsewhere, man.

>>12385546
I was completely ambivalent on SpaceX until they landed the first Falcon core, however I did think Tesla was basically an out-and-out scam to bilk retarded californians out of their money. I'm ashamed to say that I was legitimately one of these retards who thought that LiPo batteries were about as far as batteries could go. After reading up on upcoming battery chemistries though and observing just how much Tesla and now other automotives are starting to invest in developing EVs, I'm now thinking more along the lines of setting up investments in the industry before it explodes to massive size.

>>12385546
I distinctly remember being young and seeing really old spacex cgi renderings of falcon heavy and thinking it was mega ugly lmao. forgot about spacex for years, didnt really start paying attention till they were landing stages

>>12385541
sfg is two years old so....?

>>12385541
Dunno what you’re talking about

>>12385366
yeah, once we start sending hundreds of people up to space, the requirements will need to change drastically
you don't need to be a pilot to collect dirt samples and repair air leaks

environmental engineering/science degree (not to be confused with ecology degree) is probably the most useful degree for an actual astronaut/Martian colonist in practice
it's basically life support systems, chemistry, geology, microbiology and sampling rolled into one
>>12385541
(red) fascists put you into space and on the Moon
democratism will tear everyone down for sake of equity, because that's nothing but institutionalized crab bucket mentality

>>12385541
Pack it up boys, we can't come back to this. The namefag called us fascists.

>>12385570
mustve been this video
https://youtu.be/UTwRxtmQ9IY

>Starlink Terminal fully tear down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmdQnIlnRo&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=KennethKeiter

Amazing

>>12385582
>"Mountains" (subtitled: "Because They Are There") is a song by German-born American rapper Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun. The song premiered via Telstar 1 on July 10, 1962, and was released in the United States on July 11, 1962, as the third single from Wernher's eighth studio album, Hottest Reentry (1958). It contains references to previous conflicts in Wernher's career, his views on mankind's destiny in space , as well as to other spacers' conduct. The song received very positive reviews, with critics praising Wernher's lyrical ability and rapping speed, amid some accusations of anti-Semitic lyrics.[1]
>The song entered the Guinness World Records as the hit single that contains the most words; it has 1,561 words.[2] The song was also nominated for a Vandenberg AFB Award for Best Rap Performance, but lost to Gil Scott-Heron's "Whitey on the Moon".[3]

>>12385589
That pcb looks expensive as fuck just from the scales of it alone. Spacex is likely subsidising their dish and the 100$ monkey over 1 year period is probably subsidising it

>>12385603
In an alternate universe that's accurate

>>12384393
>>12384615
Humanity has advanced too quickly. Anyone with eyes can see that.
A slow and steady stream of advancement wouldn't result in the the best of the best demanding the incompetents be allowed a say in things. At least it shouldn't. Maybe money is just more important to people than tangible progress? Maybe people just want the illusion of progress. Perception is oftentimes valued more highly than reality. Maybe people just want to perceive progress? Maybe they just want the dopamine rush of doing "something good" no matter how vague it is.

>>12385579
>you don't need to be a pilot to collect dirt samples and repair air leaks
I dream of a day when grease monkeys in old beat up EMUs can bitch about engineers not having any common sense, while at the same time having to AFRICAN-AMERICAN rig their way around their design flaws.

>15km hop on Monday
https://twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1331623659442728963

It's happening

>>12385632
H O P P E N I N G

>>12385632
>>12385634
>IM GONNA
>OH GOD IM GONNA
>HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP

>>12385632
m-m-monday??

>>12385632
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP

>>12385632
Aw shieet

>>12385632
IF IT'S LONG IT'S WRONG
IF IT'S TIGHT IT'S RIGHT

>>12385632
RUNNING HOP.EXE

>>12385638
MONDAY! MONDAY! MONDAY! For a limited time only Crazy Elon's Rocket Lot is offering amazing deals on reusable heavy lift vehicles! Trade in your Delta-IV Heavy and save more than 200 million dollars now! Trade in your SLS and save 2 billion dollars today! ONLY at Crazy Elon's!

>>12385603
I'm a contrarian, I liked his album "Vee Two to You". I think one of its songs was even the inspiration for a Falco hit.
>>12385589
About '08 or so I worked on a project for a few months that had a 16-element antenna (about 3" across) that went on a car roof to stream down MP3s for a spotify-like service. Seeing this many elements is truly awe inspiring.

>>12384693
incorrect tho, nice try retard

>>12384830
it'd just cost more

>>12384693
>falcon heavy numbers fictional
someone post the "SLS is real"

>>12385662
We don't have a commercially available heavy lift vehicle. Falcon 9 Heavy may someday come about. It's on the drawing board right now. SLS is real. You've seen it down at Michoud. We're building the core stage. We have all the engines done, ready to be put on the test stand at Stennis... I don't see any hardware for a Falcon 9 Heavy, except that he's going to take three Falcon 9s and put them together and that becomes the Heavy. It's not that easy in rocketry.

>>12384850
holy fuck lmao, did anyone get in trouble for this?

>>12385624
Progress doesn’t exist.

>>12385662
>>12385667
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ptPdlVAwFg

>>12384882
>is that just the sound of fuel valves cutting off the flow?
always has been

>>12385671
Oh no how embarassing.

>>12384882
The honk is made by excessive vibration in the expansion bell, it's basically a giant horn. It doesn't necessarily mean anything went wrong with the engine, but it does mean there's flow separation at the lip of the bell during shutoff due to it being slightly underexpanded at sea level. You don't want this because if the underexpansion climbs too far up inside the engine it will reach a point where the whole bell wobbles itself into a cloud of metal shrapnel.
So, while the honk isn't always an engine death wail, you definitely want to eliminate it in an engine you plan to fire more than a couple of times.

>>12384850
Wtf this is awesome. Do you think the NRO has a dedicated pitch designer or do they just ask an intern to whip something up in MS paint? I would love to design mission patches

>>12384950
To be fair Expanse was already on thin ice in the beginning due to the meme drives they used to get around, and they totally lost me by the time they introduced the protomolecule shit. I think in the later seasons they're using wormholes to get to other star systems and shit? Basically it went off the rails and stopped being interesting.

I'd like to see a show like the expanse but with no meme magic propulsion, just plasma magnet sails and HDLTs where the big conflicts stem from the fact that it's easy in that stage to go away from the Sun but hard to approach the Sun, and it's easiest to get to Neptune because you can use a plasma magnet sail to speed up AND slow down. Moon and Mars are being colonized by Earth and are fairly loyalist, there's an offshoot branch of space colonies in the asteroid belt that are too small to threaten anything but are growing all the time, Neptune is in this weird position where a person can immigrate there with a short 4 month transfer from Earth but coming back to Earth from Neptune is a ~5 year haul because you can't use your mangetic sail, so the colonies there are populated by people who really don't give a shit about ever seeing Earth again, Mercury is being colonized at the poles with the outward purpose of acting as a supply of refractory elements to the rest of the solar system but in reality is being built up as a sort of ultra-high-ground fortress world, because it's extremely hard to reach even from Earth due to being so close to the Sun, yet starting from Mercury you can use electromagnetic launch and magnetic sails to accelerate 100,000 ton kinetic slugs to ~400 km/s impact trajectories, and so forth.

>>12385677
t. armchair rocket scientist

>>12384882
See pic related, when an engine honks it's probably vibration caused by flow sepparation starting at the lip of the nozzle and climbing upwards, drawing the supersonic shock cones of the plume upwards into the bell itself. These can cause an increasing level of combustion instability that puts inequal stresses on the bell or which cause it to vibrate excessively, both can result in catastrophic failure.
luckily this can be solved relatively easily and without adding or subtracting much from the engine. It would be a much bigger problem if there were combustion instability at the powerhead itself, like in the F-1, powerhead instability caused the first couple of test F-1s to explode almost immediately after startup and eventually required the redesign which included baffles to be added, increasing the engine's weight and reducing it's TWR.

The RS-25 also suffers from sea level underexpansion, PW/Rocketdyne's solution was to simply add a slightly inward turned lip at the point of flow separtion, which forces hot gasses to remain flush with the wall of the bell.