/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12379538
Why spend all that money to fly to a cold rock in the sky, while we can use the money to give free gender reaffirmation operations to transgender POCs.

>>12379577
to build a ton of solar panels that face the sun to accumulate enough energy that will be sent to the core of the moon and be shot as a giant mega death laser to kill all chinks.

>>12379538
Thing is, most of what Obama laid down in 2010 is coming to fruition today. The SpaceX flights tot he ISS for one. The Mars rovers and probes, the Sentinel spacecraft and the SLS and Orion capsules. All Trump did is the exact same thing that every president since Reagan has done.
New administration? New course.
It's the same. Every time.
I covered the Ares 1-X and it's hilarious failures here back when it launched. All Trump did was the same thing previous administrations did. Bush did it when he took office, then changed course again after columbia, Obama did the same thing, but unlike Bush he actually made sure there was funding and incentivized private companies to do the leg work and make space accessible. The long term strategy has been paying off, with Spacex launches costing under 100 million now, as compared to an average of about 220 million per launch up to 430 million per launch.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/air-force-budget-reveals-how-much-spacex-undercuts-launch-prices/

I've been paying attention to space policy for literal decades now. This is all nothing new.
And Trump didn't represent hope for a thing. He was looking for something to be aggrandized over. Look at the budget, policy, timelines, etc.
Nothing.
Nothing of substance. No goals or road map forward. Just pronouncements.

>>12379640
>Raises nasa's budget above what it has recieved in decades
>Obama does fucking nothing for Nasa
>NOOOO DRUMF BAD
faggot

space program is fucked,

already talk it will be completely axed to send money to fight climate whatever

only hope is Bezos Musk Zuck Gates and Co finances private project to do it.

Or china does it as a middle finger to the US

>>12379646
>idiot doesn't know what is inflation
>retard doesn't know about the 2008 economic crisis

neck yourself

>>12379664
I'm obviously accounting for that stupid.

>>12379646
I'm compelled by your argument
Clearly your reasoning and rhetorical skills have bested me. How dare I make a claim and provide evidence? Obviously things are so self evident we can just shit out opinions and they matter.

Whatever was I thinking?
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-nasa-astronauts-capture-american-flag-obama-era-competition-2020-6

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/01/fact-check-trump-says-saved-space-program-obama/111893570/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Orbital_Transportation_Services

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/26/op-ed-the-nasa-bargain-behind-spacex-launch-demo-2.html?fbclid=IwAR1tmVkkpa3VCS1xaE-eAWgcJ2t0lt22Gt8CJlNG_Rc6Gf9Dh2Va3edt1Cg

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/nasa-pays-the-price-of-being-subjected-to-a-massive-expensive-rocket/

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/500346-nasa-spacex-and-the-private-public-partnership-that-caused-the-flight-of

>>12379680
None of those change the fact that Trump increased Nasa's budget to record levels while Obama slashed it and cancelled manned moon missions.

>>12379685
It increased year over year aside from 2012 to 2014 due to republicans gutting programs...
To the point where it was then at 19 billion by the time Trump took office. So yes, Trump increased the budget to record levels. Above the previous record set by the Obama administration.
That means very little if there is no clear plan moving forward.
So I could also say that Obama increased NASAs budget to record levels While trump mismanaged the program.
Both of these statements are factually correct.
And meaningless.

Please try a more substantial tactic.

>>12379685
And I mean, technically 1966 was the record high water year for NASAs budget under Johnson. So Trump doesn't even get record levels when you factor in inflation.
1966 (nominal) 5,933 (Infl. adj.):46,752

>>12379709
Record level for decades

>>12379722
Yeah. 1966 holds the record high for the last 54 years. So, for decades.

This is why I advised you to try something with substance to it.

>>12379699
>He increased it after slashing it horribly
>TRUMP MISMANAGED
God you are such a fucking faggot. You are finding any excuse because you don’t like Trump

>>12379730
And Trump brought it up again to levels not achieved since that period 50 years ago.

>>12379699
Going to the moon is mismanaged because orange man did it rather than gorilla man.
ORANGE NAN BAD EVEN WHEN HE DO GIID THING

>>12379538
At least we'll hear more about climate change now, which is something we simply don't get enough of now. I'm also looking forward to more Muslim outreach for NASA. It's important that Muslims feel good about our space program.

>>12379740
Adjusted for inflation he brought it up to 1998 levels.
Ya know.
The Clinton Administration.

BTW, your simpleminded reasoning leaves a lot to be desired. We could actually have a talk about the problems with space policy and different administrations but you're at this point making some weird defense of Trump rather then discussing space policy meaningfully.
What did you think of the COTS program and the funding of the spitzer and webb telescopes?

>>12379750
I said Trump brought it up to the highest level in decades and that Obama slashed it. You are triggered over this fact and keep trying to change the subject. Trumps focus on going to the moon and mining it is literally the best goal NASA has had in a very long time.

>>12379760
You said, and I quote: "And Trump brought it up again to levels not achieved since that period 50 years ago"
That's not true. He brought it up to a few hudred million shy of 1998 levels after adjusting for inflation.
Bringing up funding means nothing if there is no concrete plan.
Can you name a single mission milestone of the Artemis program? Or constellation before that?

I don't give a fuck about Trump.
I couldn't care less if he decided to proclaim himself... IDK el presidente for life and then died in a coup or something.

What I care about is space policy. And space policy under all administrations since Reagan have been disasters that have held us up and are ultimately nothing more than a passing administrations dick waving moment to show they care. With very few of the needed missions and research actually getting done.

You keep on running around and acting like a fucking sperg that it's frankly annoying. It's like you lack any grasp on complexity and reduce all discussions down to 1 or two points and feel that you have to fight till the death over a meaningless bit of minute and irrelevant jingoistic jargon.

Here's my prediction:
in 3 months time, News will get out that Biden is launching a commission. Around august or so that commission will find problems with the artemis program. It will be cancelled, and Biden will announce some new arbitrary program that will have resources diverted into it for a while. Then the next president is going to come along and do the same nonsense and as usual, the ship will be without a captain.

>>12379781
>Bringing up funding means nothing if there is no concrete plan.
This is your retarded excuse. “Sure trump increased funding but Orange man bad so his plans don’t count”
Moon base by 2024 and trying to get space mining operational is the best plan BASA has had in a long time.

>>12379790
Oh my fucking god. Read.

The number of humans who have walked on another world will drop to zero.

>>12379791
I did. Moon base by 2024 would have completed before his term was up.

>>12379685
So now you're cheering for SLS pork now that orange man gave more funding to it?

>>12379809
>moon base would be completed by 2024
You're a literal teenager aren't you? There was zero substance behind the 2024 date

>>12379816
No, I want moon mining

>In an interview with Al-Jazeera on June 30, 2010, Charlie Bolden said that when he took over as NASA administrator, Obama “charged me with three things.”

>“One,” Bolden said, “he wanted me to help reinspire children to want to get into science and math.

>“He wanted me to expand our international relationships.

>“And third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering.”

>>12379824
NASA themselves had detailed plans explaining how they would reach the 2924 date

>>12379744
Artemis is just another half assed project like Constellation which was supposed to get us to Mars by now. There is simply no political will to fund any meaningful crewed space exploration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl6jn-DdafM
They took this from you /sci/

>>12379828
Bolden wad the one who pushed for more funding for SpaceX and the development of fuel depots.

Even Boeing has forgotten how to build an airplane.

>>12379832
Except the increased budget and goals that were being reached in time.

>>12379837
Al Gore invented the internet.

>>12379840
Not only you're retarded but you also don't know what you're talking about
HLS was not funded properly for Artemis to take place.

>>12379840
They shifted the first planned landing back to 2028.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/26/bipartisan-house-bill-spurns-2024-moon-landing-goal-favoring-focus-on-mars/

https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/three-winning-bids-for-nasas-human-landing-system/
Look.
This ain't our first rodeo round these parts. I suggest you follow the oldest rule of the chans:
lurk moar.

>>12379538
>taking credit for SpaceXs success from a program that was planned during the last administration

>>12379646

>>12379865
Triggered and niggered

>>12379869
you have your own board, get back to it snownigger

>>12379874
This. You can’t talk about NASA, that’s /pol/!

>>12379826
Don't worry, the Chinese want asteroid mining by 2040 forcing the US to get its shit together

>>12379869
>Pic related.
>OP.

>>12379881
NOOO, FUNDING NASA IS BAD IF ORANGE MAN DO IT

>>12379879
Not with Pro China DNC in power.
By then US will be encouraging them

>>12379884
>more money for SLS is good when Trump does it

>>12379884
Literally nobody fucking cares.

Go back to your containment board cancer.

>>12379887
Nice cherry-picking nigger. NASAs budget increased not even counting SLS

>>12379888
Triggered and niggered over facing the fact that le evil orange man funded NASA. Your reddit brain can’t process this.

>>12379887
Better than wasting NASAs budget on climate change shit which should be separate

>>12379888
You clearly care a lot

>>12379886
>Pro China DNC
What makes you think Biden will be pro China? Where is this coming from?

>>12379891
And it means nothing if there is no concrete plan, no timeline, no goals, and requires twice the funding it currently has.

You're the one who is cherry picking. But then, you're projecting so hard I can see this defense of the irrelevant on the moon.

The fact remains that it doesn't mean anything if nothing comes of it. And given that it's all sound and fury with no meat shows that nobody has any reason to get excited about it or even to believe it will happen.

That being said, the launch of the James Webb telescope IS something to look forward to. As an astrophysicist I look forward to that launch and on orbit operations. It is one of the true triumphs of our age.

>>12379538
It seems that we have nothing, allowing a private company to take over isn't always a good thing and THAT private company is pure propaganda.
Well...at least they improved the Li battery

>>12379903
>We need to work with Chiba and let them know if they keep polluting it will hurt them too
Also him wanting to take away the trading restrictions that were put on them.

>>12379904
>THERE ARE NO PLANS BECAUSE ORANGE MAN BAD
Retard.

>>12379899
NASAs science missions is what they do best. As long as its launch vehicles are controlled by congress nothing will happen on the manned side of things. It rather see an Europa mission than an ego flag plant on the moon with no goals.

>>12379538
>What's the likelyhood that Biden wont cancel all the future space colonization plans Trump established?
Zero.
Money is needed to finance gib me dat social programs.

>>12379904
I love this liberal non argument. Funding NASA is bad because when it’s not a liberal in charge the plans aren’t real plans. Artemis isn’t a plan, more policies about space mining aren’t plans. You retarded monkey brain double think is obvious.

>>12379914
Is this what coping trumptards are reduced to? Shilling moon missions that were never going to happen?

Anyways, I kind of hope the James Webb telescope makes a good launch with no major issues. While I appreciate Hubble, the fact is that it was a repurposed spy satellite and the advances on orbital telescope capabilities leaves the Hubble showing its age. While she has many years of service ahead of her, we do need a more advanced system in orbit.
It'd be nice if the U.S. finally got off their ass and got into the astrometry game.

>>12379912
The goal was to put up a moonbase which would help further missions to the moon and allow a permanent moon presence

>>12379919
Is this what reddit is reduced to? Claiming NASA bad now cause drumf?

>>12379918
Is this what you're reduced to? Thinking that just because someone points out that the Trump plan is meaningless without something concrete then we think funding for NASA is bad? Nowhere did I ever even remotely indicate that funding NASA in any regard was bad and that Trump increasing the budget was bad.

Are you fucking retarded or something?

>>12379918
The lack of funding or meaningful human exploration by NASA have nothing to do with dem rep politics you double faggot. NASA launch vehicles are just a way for congress to spread money to their districts and this has been going on for decades.

>>12379919
>>12379912
>>12379904
>>12379865
You retards are too busy being angry at trump to give a shit about NASA facing budget slashes and cancelled plans again.

https://youtu.be/T0k19ctWeeo?t=404

>only a beginning

That's what the words say on the wall behind him. 1972. It was supposed to be "only a beginning."

>>12379928
>Trumps plan is meaningless because Orange man bad, no moonbase, no moon mining!

>>12379923
Pray tell what's the existing hardware that would have allowed a permanent moon base by 2024

>>12379931
Except Obama slashed NASAs budget and Trump was funding moon exploration so in this case it is related retard

>>12379938
You could have said the same about putting a man on the moon

>>12379927
Leave Reddit out of this, some of the best posters on /sci/ are OG Reditteurs

>>12379934
It was during this administration that the NSF, NOAA, USGS, DOE and NASA science budgets were slashed, you know the programs that do actual science and are not contractor subsidies
You're celebrating more money given to SLS which we all know won't do shit.

>>12379934
......What the fuck do you think I've been saying for the last... too fucking long for me to check?


Whatever. You're useless.
Anyways, I'm honestly surprised that the ESA and JAXA have ongoing and planned Astrometry missions but the U.S. can't even be fucking bothered to put a single mission up.
But, on the bright side, I finally got through my prepub queue and discovered this little golden nugget.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2007.02946

>>12379949
Lol no reddit nigger

>>12379954
>SLS SLS SLS
Lol, you are full of fucking cope

>>12379940
Do you mean canceling Constellation which was even more hopeless than SLS? Or are you going to argue in favor of that too?

>>12379961
Ah yes Shelby getting even more money for Alabama is good

>>12379962
No retard, he means slashing NASAs budget. But that’s good because le liberals!

>>12379962
Seriously
He's not worth the effort. He probably didn't even know about Constellation.

What do you think about the viability of a polar positioned lunar telescope as a concept? See the arxiv link I posted.

>>12379967
Keep buzzwording faggot.

>>12379949
>>12379970
>>12379962
>Le I fucking love science! Redditers are now against NASA because their monkey king hated it too

>No one can explain why Artemis is bad, just libshits blaming pork on Trump and claiming NASA shouldn’t get funds

That money needs to go to Israel!

>>12379988
>Trump would have totally made these fantasy moon domes
>even when SLS can't even take Orion to the lunar pole

>Trump
>Clear goals and objectives about space
>Biden
>Never mentions space
>Was VP during and helped slash NASAs budget along with Obama
Guys, I don’t feel so good.

>>12379991
>SLS SLS SLS
Is this the go to reddit cope term?

>>12379991
This, no point in further funding and trying to solve these issues, that money needs to go to gibs instead

>>12379956
It's an amazing concept, NASA has not been short on promising projects. Shame that congress is more concerned about keeping shuttle contractors alive to fund exciting science.

>>12380004
You can keep repeating that retarded strawman but that doesn't make it true

>>12380018
You don’t know what a straw man is. Trump was good for NASA, he increased funding and gave them good goals. Biden is likely bad news for NASA

>>12380018
You are the retard claiming we wouldn’t get a moon base despite NASA planning otherwise

Arecibo...

>>12380016
I agree. While I can understand their desire to maintain something of a status quo for the sake of votes and the appearance of leadership. Leadership without direction is merely pandering. More promises but very few results.
That being said, I do wonder if there will be studies on lunar telescopes in a serious fashion. This proposal isn't the first. Lunar telescopes have popped up in fiction to date and some serious proposals have been submitted. What is needed is an actual will to see projects across administrations and shooting for something more long and worrying less about reelection.
Like Arecibo for instance. I would like to see a new radio telescope erected there like my old site Green Bank did after its dish collapsed way back in the day. But IDK if that will happen. I want it to. God knows Arecibo inspired me as a kid. But we have a lack of long term thought and an abundance of short term promises.

Does Biden have ANY plans fir NASA outside of just defunding everything Trump did?

>>12380028
>NASA planning otherwise
NASA has had concepts for moon bases since the 60s. There is no political or public will to fund them. I don't know what makes you believe this time it was going to happen since there is no launch hardware to speak of.

>>12380038
NASA will re-prioritize climate research. The Plan for moon and mars activities received a boost under Trump with no indications from Biden that things will change beyond the 2028 date. ISS will receive further funding and operational extension. Biden's administration is likely to push the date for a lunar landing back several years – a goal that aligns with the House Science Committee's proposed bill that would aim to land astronauts on the moon by 2028. Stofan, the chair of Biden's NASA transition team, helped NASA develop plans for the commercialization of spaceflight as well as human missions to Mars and the moon. According to Reuters, which spoke with officials close to the Biden campaign in late October, the president-elect plans to continue promoting competition between companies like Boeing and SpaceX. NASA's Commercial Crew Program has been funding Boeing and SpaceX to develop astronaut-ready spacecraft to fly to and from the space station.

Those are the brass tacks really. A few changes in priorities with more science and research funding. A schedule that agrees with the proposed 2028 plan and the architect behind the moon and mars programs that were proposed back in June and july being solidified.

Take this with a grain of salt. Nothing beyond these nods have been proposed. Most presidents never give a second thought to NASA to begin with, so we generally don't see anything until about 6 months into a new administration. Or, in the case of Bush, 3 years.

>>12380040
> I don't know what makes you believe this time it was going to happen
Because this time there are detailed road maps on top of China trying to make their own moon base and a funded program specifically designed to get us to the moon. How are this stupid?

>>12380026
Artemis is just as empty a promise like Constellations lunar landing was. I'm simply not going to believe any half assed manned exploration plans like the ones that have been promised since the 70s.

>>12380040
When was the last time multiple world leaders put serious funding towards a moon base?

>>12380050
>It’s not going to happen because......

>>12379995
we need a man with the right touch

>>12380050
>So retarded he can’t tell the difference between now and the 70s where multiple nations are planning and conducting moon related missions with America’s biggest competitor making their own moon plans that are advancing rapidly

>>12380049
Seriously, how old are you? The last moon landing plan even had hardware launch tests yet nothing came of it because it was just that, a half assed plan. As long as these missions are funded based on keeping certain jobs alive there will be no serious space exploration.

>>12380060
Nigger, China alone means we will be going to the moon soon. You are so stupid you really don’t know how the recent discovery of large portions of REE and China going to the moon could possibly change things?

>>12379640
I'd agree with you if that had been the Obama Administration's intent, but the reality is they got fucking lucky. The entire continuation of commercial spaceflight under the Obama Administration's Flexible Path was a consolation prize; something to make the whole godawful package a little more palatable to all the people bitching about putting the lunar program on indefinite hiatus and gutting the planetary science, astrophys, and heliophys budgets so they could dump two-thirds of NASA's entire science budget into earth science/climate study shit.

The fact that the commercial crew program bore fruit and didn't suffer any serious accidents that would have justified axing the whole thing was more good fortune, than good planning. The entire thing could have figuratively and literally crashed and burned and the Obama Administration wouldn't have lost a night's sleep over it because they'd written it off as nothing but a political bargaining chip.

>>12380059
My eyes are on SpaceX and Mars. I'm there for NASA science missions but I know there won't be any serious manned efforts from them. The way those projects are funded is rotten to the core.

>>12380063
>Nigger
Why the racism?

>>12380060
How old are you? Name another time outside the space race where multiple major nations were all launching shit to the moon and funding moon related research like we have now?

>>12380067
>fell for the mars meme
>Thinks space X could actually get anyone to mars without NASA funding

>>12380054
It's not going to happen because serious funding has not been allocated, not a single committee has agreed on a single timeline or awarded development contracts. No landers or station concepts have been finalized, no missions have been planned and no test flights have taken place or have been scheduled or proposed. The SLS still hasn't had a single test flight, the Orion has had one flight period, there No stand ups have been announced for crewed operations centers or astronauts selected for test flights of said new spacecraft. No missions have been proposed, no sites selected, no mission hardware developed. Nothing.
I could literally go down a laundry list of "Worrying signs that show that nothing is happening with this program at all" and then make real world comparisons to previous programs such as the shuttle, the ISS, the Apollo program, the Gemini program, Mercury, project vanguard, and so on.
There is nothing. And that is a shame. Because we have spent the last 17 years on this with nothing to show for it.
17 years.
Let that process for as long as you need.
In 2003, I watched as Columbia disintegrated over Texas. In time, Bush gave this announcement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH9909OVDHE
Which eventually resulted in this debacle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqRqpG5G5Iw
Afterwards, spacex was given funding and made competitive which eventually resulted in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnChQbxLkkI

In the meantime, nothing progressed on SLS despite it still being given the go ahead under Obama and Trump. Nothing to this day. No launches, no tests and operations. Nothing.
17 years.
SLS? Still in development.
Orion? Still in development.
Where are the results? I could fault Obama all day for not actually having a concrete plan and accelerating manned missions to the moon and mars, but it's redundant at this point. I've spent hours in the past criticizing him for it.
So the lack of results says it all.

>>12380048
Fifty bucks says NASA spends the next few years bogged down in congressional hearings, defending claims that manned spaceflight is transphobic, that trying to colonize Mars is a tacit approval of White supremacism, and that space exploration is a wasteful luxury when that money could be spent on welfare programs.

>>12380079
>Orion? Still in development.
To be fair, Orion's done, they did the abort tests like a year ago. The problem is that without SLS there's no approved LV, and there's miles of red tape blocking us from just slapping the fucker on an Atlas, Delta, or Falcon for manned flights.

>>12380063
If they were actually serious, they would have planned accordingly. The way Artemis is going and how little money it received for HLS and the fact that Gateway was postponed are clear signs that this is more of the same empty bullshit. If China ger more serious as time goes by the US will react accordingly regardless of who's president. Until then we'll see.

>>12380064
Oh yeah. Hard agree. They were just lucky. The fact is that I haven't seen a single president who was actually serious about making a big mission happen. Instead they go for the half assed programs, or bargaining chip plans, or even concessionary routes.

As an astronomer I have a fair few bones to pick with Musk about his starlink system but I will say that he got fucking lucky when it came to the cots programs and securing supply and crewed missions to the ISS. But that alone isn't something to specifically brag about at this juncture. A good safety record is more important and they will have to work 3x as hard to not get shafted by the first nervous politician who decides he has to make a name for himself somehow.

What we need is something substantive at this point. An actual sign of us being serious. An actual demo space craft, a test mission or 5 to show we are building and testing rather than talking up a good game.

>>12380083
/pol/ really does rot your brain

>>12380083
You need something new that isn't from 2015 in terms of jokes.
That was funny for like 5 minutes. Now it's just stale.

>>12380094
>>12380095
You laugh now... let's see where we are a year from now.

>>12380106
We laugh because that was a tempest in a teapot that was literally nothing.
You *REALLY* need a new joke.

>>12380095
Biden is a return to 2015. NASA during the Obama/Biden administration was mostly about social justice causes. No reason to think Biden/Harris won't be more of the same trash.

>>12380083
sadly this

>>12380119
This. Fuck, NASA is dead for 8 years

>>12380112
Ignorant retard doesn’t remember NASA under Obama

Pic is a perfect encapsulation of NASA during the Obama years.

>>12379658
>only hope is Bezos Musk Zuck Gates and Co finances private project to do it.
The fact that Bezos is interested is what gives me hope. It means that the real decision-makers do have an interest in space. Musk may be permitted room to operate.
Also Dan Crenshaw, with his Starfleet amendment, has a seat on the globohomo Great Reset council. So it's possible that the NWO isn't opposed to space.
None of this would have happened if we had only repealed the 19th.

>>12379995
>>Biden
>>Never mentions space
Well I guess we'll just have to wait till he's elected to find out what his plans are.
Same as with all his other plans.

>>12380339
Dead forever. The entire point of the Biden fraud was to hand space to China. There won't be any more legitimate elections in the US.