/sci/ - Science & Math

This is the one

This is obviously the superior thread. LEM FTW

>>12377335
>>12377350
Can you drift in them?

>>12377353
aint no such thing as moon police

Reject LEM.
Reject Powerset.
Reject transfinite induction.

>>12377352
>16 january 1953
>1953

>>12377373
venturestar would have made much more sense as a TSTO in retrospect

Roton Launcher

>Explore space? Colonization? That sounds racist anon...

>>12377352

>>12377387

>>12377352
That's the one that Richard Garriott bought at an auction.

>>12377379
how would that work? Cargo releases an expendable 2nd stage?

>>12377402
Make the bottom a flared base like the Hermes? You could probably still fit the aerospike in there

>>12377411
Make the bottom a flared base and attach a (non hydrogen) booster to the bottom

>>12377402
nope, i was thinking that you'd use two venturestar variants strapped together.
>orbiter variant with enlarged payload bay
>booster variant, only fuel tanks
abandon those retarded balloon tanks and crossfeed propellant and you've got yourself a great fully reusable heavy lift TSTO.

>>12377415
oh, so like this but less retarded. Honestly on paper this idea sounds great. It's similar to SpaceX's approach but the booster stage glides down instead of using fuel.

>>12377435
more like pic related with 1 less spaceplane

>>12377411
Like this?

There's nothing more bizarre and inhuman to me than this false dichotomy that's being promoted, that we can either explore space or fix the earth. I mean it's just ridiculous. The same people saying this don't line up to firebomb movie theaters, or push to make toys illegal, but for some reason they think that we can't spend a tiny fraction of our resources colonizing and exploring space.

>>12377454
I mean it kind of defeats the point if the first stage is expendable. I suppose the first stage could have wings and also land like a spaceplane? If you land it propulsively you might as well make the second stage a propulsive lander; but then you just have a starship ripoff that’s worse than starship

>>12377443
watching them land one after another would be sick

>>12377487
It’s a combo of NASA pouring billions into things like SLS and ISS that appear to be a waste to both space lovers and space haters, mixed with the fact that some of the richest men in the world just want to explore. They see it as a waste and would rather the money be handed to them directly. See pic related for why they get mad. This is their viewpoint. (and if you haven’t figured it out, the math is wrong in the pic but it’s what they believe)

>>12377397
I got Richard's autograph at Quakecon 2011. Fucking based dood.

>>12377502
What a retard

>>12377373
She was too good for this world.

How hard would it be to modify RS-125's to burn RP-1 instead of Hydrolox?

When NASA is done dragging its ass with the SLS program it's going to need a true fully-reusable heavy lift launcher that burns RP-1.

>>12377502
Good math there!

>>12377504
Living in Texas, I get to see him from time to time, though lately he's been mostly in NYC and Paris. When the Soyuz aborted a couple of years back I was basically the first one there to let him know. It was at a thing about the anniversary of his going up to the ISS.

>>12377512
>RS-125
What's this magical engine?
RS-25 is a hunk of junk that would require a completely new plumbing and powerhead to burn anything else. Not even the nozzle or combustion chamber would be reused for a different fuel.

>>12377502

>>12377487
It's all empty platitudes meant to make the person saying them feel better about themselves. There is no practical reason for people saying stuff like that beyond it makes them feel good. Showing them how minuscule the space spending is compared to social program spending, and making the point that the problems on Earth are organizational not financial will be enough to make them look stupid.

Before I go and make a strawman, do you think there are people out there who unironically consider estrogen astronaut a fascist nazi for supporting starship and a mars colony?

>>12377502
> bluecheck
> mentally incapable
Sounds about right

>>12377536
He seems to push hard for "team humanity" so that probably protects him from that mental diarrhea.

sounds like electron handled reentry very nicely

>>12377512
NASA will never design another rocket after the SLS. It's unlikely NASA will exist for anything more than (((Earth science))), educational outreach, and MAYBE funding other peoples' probe construction past the lifetime of the SLS and ISS.

>>12377554

>>12377554
awesome, i hope they will helicopter-recover it next launch

>>12377564
sounds like that will come later

and here's the thread: https://twitter.com/ChrisG_NSF/status/1330917380889980929

>>12377335
Looks like something I built in ksp.

>>12377554
>>12377575
>Will continue to splashdown in ocean until we have really clean boosters and good data on entry dynamic.
>Would love to refly a vehicle next year, but the data and condition of stage.
the road ahead

>Absolutely intention to refly components from this stage once re-qualified for flight.
Shuttle SRB-style reuse

>Heat shield did better than thought given it wasn't designed for this. But things in powerpack are pretty roasty -- which was expected. Next big piece of work is on that heat shield to carry the loads... which they now know.
>Engines will likely NOT be reused from this mission. "Unfair to the engines given the ride they had to ask them to go again."
There's our engine update, basically confirming that they're not looking too good right now.

>Enjoying the freedom of the LC-1 New Zealand range. Getting the right windows etc is easier there for recovery ship position. Once we get it all down pat, we'll expand recovery ops to Wallops. Have a good helicopter pilot there ready to go.
Being reliant on individual pilots is a weird contrast to SpaceX-style reuse.

>>12377585
>Being reliant on individual pilots is a weird contrast to SpaceX-style reuse.
Enter: ULA's Vulcan lmao

>>12377502
>common core

I laugh at the thought that there’s like, 5 people in the USA right now who are going to find a niche and be “that helicopter guy who captures rocket engines falling from the sky” for the next 20 years because companies don’t know how to even begin to compete with Elon. Not a rip on electron, more of a rip on Vulcan

So when spaceflight become commonplace and we start having to discuss the many moons as part of our day to day language, can we finally rename our moon away from "Moon" in English? Just have it named Luna, it's a much more beautiful name.

>>12377671
Fuck you we're naming it the Mün

>>12377671
>renaming the namesake of an entire class of orbital bodies

>>12377671
Simple, rename the Moon as Themoon.

>>12377671
faggot retard

>falseflagging attention whore fishing for (you)s by saying some variation of "we should give money to black people instead of space"

>>12377716

>>12377671
I agree that it makes logical sense but it's also pretty gay. "earth's moon" works fine desu, I can't think of many situations where you'd really need to clarify

>>12377671
Earts moon will stay as Moon. When we get to other planets we will refer to the planets moons with the names we have given them.

>>12377716
>Random Twitter screenshot of some celebrity conplaining about space

>>12377671
The problem is that calling the moon Luna automatically makes you gay

>>12377671
Elon Musk and SpaceX™ presents The Moon™ (Sponsored by Bad-Dragon™)

>a single BA 2100 module launching on a single Starship will have more volume than ISS, Mir and Skylab put together after 48 launches
>NASA originally considered the idea of inflatable habitats in the 1960's
EVERYTHING went wrong when 60's ended
we could have had this thing flying Saturn V

>>12377750
Based. Calling it Luna is fucking cringe. Like, do you call the Earth "Terra" or "Gaea" because you're concerned that Martian colonists will get confused when you say "the world" or "the globe"?

>>12377764
Von Braun should have been given an unlimited budget

Starlink launch thread is still up for the new attempt tonight >>12375561

>>12377760
>Take a Chance, ride with SpaceX

(this is a really good joke and if anyone doesn't get it I can explain it.)

>>12377765
to be fair, it's still less gay than calling Moon and Mars geology "selenology and areology"

>>12377750
>gay
You mean 'happy'?

>>12377764
Spaceflight hasn't progressed since the 70s.

Starship test scheduled cancelled for today/tomorrow.

Space bros, why is this allowed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T8cn2J13-4

>most powerful rocket
lies
>saturn V
LMAO, that rocket can only pull an Apollo 8
>gateway space station
I wonder if the ISS will even survive
>commercial operators pre-position landers
Should have launched the entire mission to begin with

lmagine being the other guy who went up with Neil and Buzz but didnt get to walk on the moon

>>12377851
God damn those youtube comments were made by a wretched hive of bluepilled and cringey individuals

>>12377851
ISS will be extemded to at least 2028, that's the only sure thing for this administration

>>12377857
Michael Collins is the man. He lives next to my parents and goes on daily walks with his walking sticks. He is one of the smartest old people I've ever met. Old as bones but still has 110% mental capacity

>>12377851
SLS is real. We've seen it in Michoud. Starship is a c̶o̶n̶c̶e̶p̶t̶ p̶a̶p̶e̶r̶ e̶x̶p̶e̶r̶i̶m̶e̶n̶t̶a̶l̶ prototype. Its not easy in rocketry.

>>12377857
He's still one of only 24 humans to have ever even orbited the Moon/left LEO. That in and of itself is a huge privilege.

>>12377857
Michael Collins sells watercolor paintings now
I'd like to buy one some day—a few of them are pretty good.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/relativity-space-builds-war-chest-for-building-.html
Speaking of $500 million, Relativity just raised that much in investment. It's now the most valuable private space company that's not SpaceX or BO.

>>12377945
>that gap between spacex and everyone else
Aaaahahah

>>12377857
And yet it was Buzz the one who got depressed and into alcoholism. He later recovered, but man.

>>12377945
Chinese "private" companies being worth anything is a joke

>>12377945
Surprised rocketlab ain't second

>>12377945
>ZhangGuangWeiXing
I refuse to believe that's an actual company and not a racist caricature.

>>12377963
I can believe that Planet is more valuable than Rocket Lab, but Relativity over both is surprising.

>>12377945
The base case for spacex is now 100+ billion and bull is 200+ due to starlink.

>>12377973
What does planet do?

>>12377968
>actual company
Well, no. But the racist caricature is correct, Chinese really do be like that

>>12377977
Imaging smallsats. They have a pretty big constellation of them.

>Yes?
>They want moon rocks you say?
>Then ve vill bring the rocks to them
>Unleash the Meteor Machine

>>12377863
>extemded

>>12377671
It's The Moon, like The Royal Navy
everyone else gets to call themselves a moon or a royal navy

>>12377671
No, the word "moon" and its equivalent in every human language means the one orbiting Earth first and foremost. The others can be called cuck planetoids for all I care.

>>12377945
Where's Blue Origin?

>>12378073
We're talking about space companies here

>>12377945
Imma buy some Momentus when the merger completes

>>12378110
can you give me a quick rundown on Momentus?

>>12378073
On life support

>>12378173
Their engine supplier contract for Vulcan should finally get things going.

>>12378110
Why wait? I think SRAC shares will just convert to the new ticker after the reverse merger. It's very likely to go through and if it doesn't the cash reserves basically create a floor on the price so you're unlikely to lose much. This is how you play the special purpose acquisition company meme so you don't miss any jump in price ahead of the completion date. The only short term issue I foresee is that other investors don't think that Momentus is worth a billion dollars and the share prices drops, but I think it's unlikely because space stocks have seen a lot of hype and enthusiasm regardless of their market cap. Long term the biggest threat is probably SpaceX making their own tugs and cutting them out.
>>12378142
They're going to be launching a last mile satellite delivery service riding along on Starlink launches and similar. Using their space tugs they will bring satellites into orbits that would have otherwise required a dedicated launch like what Rocket Lab is doing for small sats.

so /sfg/ you like space but why aren't you building a war chest for modules on the next space station after the ISS

CHINESE MOON ROCK GRAB IN 1 HOUR

SPS BTFO

Live Stream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vppYWohS67I

>>12378212
Expendable villages

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWpI3-khvd8
launch in T-30

>>12378216
Philippino villages, they're launching from Hainan.

>>12378212
>>12378217
better stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix55rt97PwU

>>12378212
China is actually based idk why /sfg/ gives them the shit. It is in your interest for China to ramp us space exploration. More money will be pumped into US space travel and it’s fun seeing their meme hypergolic rockets fly. Plus they’ve actually landed payloads on the moon which is pretty cool

>>12378223
God why is Mandarin such a disgusting sounding language. Like two dogs fucking.

>>12378229
Two cats in a bag being beaten with sticks.

>>12378223
It's in gookspeak

>>12378217
>Even chineese use USA capital's time

>>12378235
Yeah but they actually show the fucking rocket instead of irrelevant spergtuber documentaries.

>>12378235
Better than the feminist engineer bit on the other stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3EKDghbuU

>>12378192
My broker doesn't list SPACs because they aren't registered leaf securities

>>12378226
中国共产党万岁
Am I the only China lover here?

>>12378226
china is unequivocally horrifyingly evil but so were the nazis and von Braun is hella based

also every terror attack in europe pushes me slightly closer to thinking china is right about the camps

>>12378248
I'm watching because i'm bored. Hopefully something goes explosively wrong.

>>12378253
now that wouldnt be a great win for china !

>>12378223
Someone red pill me on this rocket. All I know is that it uses hypergolics.

>Check Estronaut stream
>He's going through launch parameters
>Gets to the part about this mission launching from the Wenchang launch site on Hainan
>"wEll tHis sITe dOEsn'T SeNd RocKEts oVer LAnd sO sTOP taLkiNG bAd aBoUt chINa gUIse"

>>12378270
First stage drops on villages.

>>12378246
Is that issue with your broker or your account type? I use Questrade and bought some in my margin account but I pretty sure I could do the same in my TSFA. If the share price doubles I'm probably going to sell half of my position and let the rest ride, I found this worked well with my previous high risk investments.

>ESA helping the gooks
despicable

>>12378270
>All I know is that it uses hypergolics.

So you know nothing.

>>12378295
Hence why I asked for the red pill

>>12378240
There is also female dose, but this time a qt data officer and retro cosplayer:
https://youtu.be/vppYWohS67I
Time -19:25

>>12378302
4 kerosine/oxygen boosters
1 central core filled with hydrogen and oxygen
Some 25 tons to orbit performance
Drops spent boosters on Philippinos

>>12378293
Korean space?

>>12378315
>Some 25 tons to orbit
Only 8 tons to TLI

T-2m30s

I think the fueling is done

>>12378315
Why the fuck did China fall for the hydrogen first stage meme? Why not make the core kerolox like the boosters? What the fuck..... could they only manage to steal shitty hydromeme plans from other countries?

3 MIN

I HEAR CHINK NOISES

>>12378327
Rocket performance is usually measured in tons to orbit becuase that's roughly the same for every system. Everything else is far harder to compare.

>>12378315
>4 kerosine/oxygen boosters
based
>1 central core filled with hydrogen and oxygen
not the chinks too
>Some 25 tons to orbit performance
mediocre, but better than their other rockets
>Drops spent boosters on Philippinos
part of me appreciates how they just give no fucks. Not like anyone else in the world has the balls to stand up to them aside from mr orange

>>12378302
Kerolox boosters, Hydrolox core stage, the Hydrolox engines are open cycle lmao
It's like a less efficient miniature Energia
Doesn't BTFO spaceX, does BTFO delta IV

>>12377502
https://www.glamour.com/story/michael-bloomberg-billionaire-viral-tweet-essay

>>12378335
It's basically the old Soviet Energia booster they took as the example of what they wanted. New rockets are coming online though, including some unnamed one that looks and should function similar to a F9 Heavy.

T- 10 SEC

>>12378340
>part of me appreciates how they just give no fucks

Orbital mechanics man, you shoot towards the east but from China there's lots of other countries in the way. Tough life. Downrange.

Very slow ignition

LIFTOFF!

suprised that the chinese have bodycams on their rockets

I hate the CCP but I gotta say that was a sweet launch

>>12378360
Even inside at the engine. Neat.

>>12378360
Chinks copy everything.

>>12378360
They're really proud of this one, and this time they're actually right to be.

>>12378366
Steal even the Korolev Cross.

>>12378366
their new service rifle even has blatant magpul furniture rip-offs. it really is baffling how they for whatever reason don't make shit of their own design

>>12378347
Only engines based on Energia core stage engine.

>>12378356
Here I thought the last SpaceX launch coverage was bad, but they probably just hired this guy off the street corner because he spoke English.

>>12378368
???
How else are the side boosters meant to separate?

based bugmen

Fuck me running

>>12378344
>Hydrolox core stage, the Hydrolox engines are open cycle lmao
>lets use a fuel where it's greatest advantage is in its ISP
>and put it through an engine that compromises that advantage

>>12378376
Explosively.

>>12378378
What gender is this?

Chinks have better fucking launch coverage than ULA. How is this possible?

>>12378386
yeah it's not spacex level but it shits on both ULA and NASA

>>12378378
this is a 哥哥 moment

>>12378386
ULA operates along the "gives us money and fuck off" guidelines.

>>12378368
>>12378370
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-100
RD-120 clone.

Don't know about the YF-77, but wouldn't be surprised if that was a poorly reverse engineered early Russian design too.

>>12378378
Always thought Urabe had unrealistic teeth, but turns out its real.

>>12378385
The Master Gender

>>12378386
China only broadcasts the important launches like this one.
Finding a livestream of chinese satellite launches is a pain in the ass.

they could use some better 2nd stage cameras. But at least they have some I guess

>>12378386
Its a geopolitical tool to show the world that China is number 1.

i don't understand how the constant stream of intercontinental ballistic nerf balls being shot from the rocket help it get to space

>>12378386
This is a CHINA WILL GROW LARGER launch. They're even providing English coverage to show their excellence.

damn, that first stage was burning forever

>>12378393
>にーちゃん

stabler orbit reached

>>12378415
That's why hydrogen/oxygen was once seen as the future of space launches.

>>12378345
>They requested money through Venmo; one person charged me $10,000, saying I should “be able to cover this no problem.” Another charged me a (much more reasonable) $60 for a “math tutor.”

>>12378406
uwotm8

>>12378427

>>12378422
it still is

>>12378391
Pretty much entirety of the China space program run of stollen soviet/russian technology.
If USSR did not break up they would still struggle to launch man to space.

>>12378422
>muh specific impulse

>>12378433
Stolen and stolen. They paid for it.

why is it pitched somewhat downward? some mission control dude was just explaining something to his cohort

>>12378415
true, but there are too many downsides. Like disappointing thrust, having to have a fuckhuge tank with a ton of insulation, very high cost, and hydrogen's hilarious ability to literally phase through materials. Still, once you're out of atmosphere hydrolox is pretty good.

Come to think of it wasn't ULA proposing orbital hygrogen depots at some point? What was their boil-off strategy?

>>12378432
As long as you're ok filling up your rocket right before start under hazardous conditions that may result in catastrophic accidents and not having any fuel left to land the rocket afterwards as it all quickly evaporates...

>>12378432
no
>>12378443
that's not even why it's shit

>>12378446
>that's not even why it's shit

You expect /sci/ to know and understand fuel density?

>>12378173
Not a BO shill, but everyone should stop calling stuff that doesn't reach the Karman line "suborbital". Aircraft, jumping up and down, and driving off a cliff don't count as suborbital flights, why should SpaceX test hops?

>>12378441
are engines shutoff at some point during assent on something like US launches? are parking orbits suborbital until a burn to put the payload into orbit?

>>12378440
facing the right way for the TLI burn

>>12378448
I would expect most regulars here have had this discussion a few times, but there's always a tourist or two

>>12378440
It’s supposed to do that

Who is filming the the rocket in space???? Is this a hoax?

>>12378440
The core stage put them onto a lofted suborbital trajectory (excessive altitude but takes advantage of the first stage's Isp)
Pitching down for the perigee kick reduces how high the spacecraft will go while also increasing periapsis height and rounding out the orbit. Not as efficient as waiting for apoapsis and burning straight prograde, but again it's to take advantage of how the first stage works.
If the first stage could be relit in flight they would not need to do a lofted trajectory and pitch-down periapsis kick.

>>12378455
>>12378460
do you guys know what kind of lunar orbit they are going for? polar?

>>12378461

>>12378440
It is pointing to maneuver attitude. The rocket is now on suborbital trajectory (parabola). It takes time to orient the ship so you want to do it before the ignition point is reached. When it reaches said point (called apoapsis, which is the top of the parabola) it will be totally horizontal.

>>12378436
They literally buy Energia wreck from kazakhs as scrap metal.

>a female administrator won't be presiding over NASA during the Artemis missions
It's hard to take American spaceflight seriously

>>12378385
bug
>>12378441
>What was their boil-off strategy?
cost plus
>>12378452
>everyone should stop calling stuff that doesn't reach the Karman line "suborbital"
New Shepard is not suborbital because of how high it went, it's suborbital BECAUSE IT FUCKING WASN'T IN ORBIT. Horizontal velocity is what matters, not the altitude. The line is just how high you have to be not to have the atmosphere turn you into a fireball.

>>12378472
nice sync, chinks

>>12378480
I wasn't aware that there was an Energia wreck. There have been 2 successful flights of the rocket (insertion of Polyus was a failure though). No more have been assambled until the Soviet Union went tits up.

>>12378468
not sure, but the lander is going to land on Mons Rümker, a mountain on the northwest part of moons near side

>>12378455
I don't think they are going to TLI straight away. They would like to achieve a circular orbit, maybe correct the inclination, check onboard systems, then give the go for TLI.

>>12378452
>Not a shill
>everyone should stop calling stuff that doesn't reach the Karman line "suborbital"
What else would you call it?

>>12378488
for some odd reason the Chinese seem to use T-0 as time of ignition, not liftoff

Circularising now, lads

>>12378495
>TLI has started

>>12378467
i don't quite understand. why not use less fuel in the first stage to not overshoot altitude (i'm guessing they desired speed than altitude)? why would relighting the first stage make a difference if you drop it anyway and have another stage (seems to add fuel weight to both the first and later stages)?

btw, been playing ksp for the first time recently and am currently working on landing someone on the moon. first two kerbalnauts hit at 200 m/s

>>12378504
I think it is raising periapsis?

>>12378183
Contracts and funding have never been the issue for Blorigin, they get a billion dollars from Jeff Who every year.

>>12378491
Buran was mated to actual flight ready Energia booster when hangar collapsed on it.
And while there is still many partly completed Buran orbiters it was one and only Energia booster in existence.

>>12378507
It's been burning for 3 minutes now, so I'm pretty sure this is TLI, which is pretty impressive, only 30 mins from launch to TLI

>>12378505
Hohmann transfers. Most fuel efficient way to go uphill in orbital mechanics.

>>12378514
There'll probably be more burns.

>>12378519
>earth to lunar orbit speedrun any%

>>12378505
You want to circularise at apoapsis, which is the most efficient point to raise periapsis. If you continue burning you keep raising apoapsis in a very inneficient manner.

>>12378519
It does seem that there'll be more, since they haven't decoupled the payload yet

>>12378443
>>12378446
Yes it is.
Because it's the easiest way to refuel in situ.
All you need is water and energy.
For methane you need water AND CO2 and more complicated generator.
Not a big deal on mars, but it is on moon or asteroid belt and beyond.

OMG Chang'e 5 just flew over my house!

>>12378533
Fucking spoke too soon they just released it

>>12378519
>>12378528
they didn't use the first stage to circularize their orbit, though. they used a later stage, unless i missed something

>>12378514
It was not TLI. It was circularisation.

>>12378543
it's fucking leaving earth I think they may have completely skipped circularisation and went straight to TLI

Love the 70s Commie style Jiang Zemin glasses on one of the casters.

>>12378542
OFC, you want your first stage to be atmospheric, and the later ones to be more adapted to space. Circularisation and TLI will be done by the same stage in this case. Other rockets have a periapsis kicker stage.

>>12378550
We have good enough computers to skip that shit today. It's not Apollo anymore.

>>12378550
That would make no sense. You want ground control to review telemetry to see what the fuck of an orbit they have achieved, and then calc the proper burn and time for TLI.

>>12378538
RIP anon and his villiage

>>12378534
Re-read the context nigga. Refueling on the moon or on asteroids is nothing to do with the launch stage. Hydrogen has arguments for orbit and beyond (although they can be and are offset by other considerations), but it has absolutely no viability at launch.

TLI within 1 day, confirmed by professor in chink stream.

When is the landing expected to take place?

>>12378576
i saw Nov 27 somewhere

>>12378572
It's highly elliptical now, they'll probably use the hypergols to do a couple of toots here and there to raise it.

Has the core stage made it to orbit as well?

>>12378581
i like how the boosters just disappear in the visualization

>>12378576
Expect 1 day of checkings before TLI, plus some 4 days of coasting, then ther will be another orbit transfer and moar checking in a parking orbit.

>>12378589
Nope, it detached before the coasting. It will probably be already splashed down.

Estronaut and his moderators should be held responsible for actively supporting genocide. It would be a shame if his channel got report bombed.

What did the first stage fall on?
Rolling for village.

>>12378618
cancel culture is cancer.

>>12377585
To be fair, shuttle SRB style reuse is not as bad of an idea for a liquid booster

>>12378603
>>12378538

>>12377864
The fuck did your parents do?

>>12378626
do you think YouTube would let us post "God bless Nazi Germany" on Peenemunde livestreams? Fight fire with fire.

>>12378629
>shuttle SRB style reuse is not as bad of an idea for a liquid booster
I'm not sure what you're saying, but if you're saying that letting a liquid rocket stage parachute down into the ocean, then having a standing army strip the thing down to the paint and rebuild it after fishing it out of the water is a good way to do reuse, then I disagree.
If you're saying that they could scrap most of the booster and just save the expensive bits for reuse, the booster's body IS the expensive bit, so that doesn't make much sense either.

>>12378638
it's technically tuesday in china

>>12378647
>cancel everything that offends me
Or just don't watch it. SJWs like you are cancer

>>12378618
not your personal army, faggot

>>12378656
>the booster's body IS the expensive bit
How comes? One would think that the engines are the most expensive part.

I was told this was a spaceplane. Defend your position /sfg/
https://youtu.be/eezVoXFcyJI

>>12378673
Regardless of lift generation, I feel as though a spaceplane has to land horizontally to be qualified as such. Literally any object reentering the atmosphere will produce some degree of lift.

>>12378673
HL-10 is cute. CUTE!

>>12378673
>Multiple flip maneuvers
>Fins probably on the cusp of shearing off
>Heat shield barely bolted on
>Praying your raptors ignite at the last second
No pussies allowed

>>12378686
Here's what Ivan experimented with. Looks like a duck imo.

>>12378701
Now with 100 % more pictures!

>>12378701
>>12378707
The Russians called it a shoe, but in a slang way.

>>12378707
If I were some martin shkreli pharma bro type person I wouldn’t waste my time trying to collect unreleased wu tang and kanye albums. I would be trying to pay the russians to give me their old buran and MiG-105’s that are rotting away to preserve them

>>12378673
How the fuck did these things fly?
And could you imagine what carrier battles would be like if they were equipped with swarms of several hundreds of these?

>>12378707
>MiG-105
Why did it take until Starship to see flappy wings in use again?

>>12378719
The flat belly acts as a wing and you're not flying very far with them, just glide until the next airfield after you reenter from orbit.

>>12378732
Don't be absurd, everyone knows Elon invented flappy wings as well as grid fins.

>>12378732
Did it use the flappy wings for control or just folded them to reduce heating?

Holy fuck this is so based. Lmao watch the part when the missile launches. The animation when it hits made me laugh my ass off
https://youtu.be/Fcw8ySwrSKs

>>12378719
>And could you imagine what carrier battles would be like if they were equipped with swarms of several hundreds of these?
Ask the Navy. X-47B.

AaaaaaaaAaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa, I thought proontfags were a meme.

>>12378772
>Not a vertical flag
Never gonna make it.

>>12378772
If your company is named Relativity, you are just a popsci engineering firm that's never gonna make it

>>12378772
>Mostly empty warehouse

What's the line between a lifting body and a flying wing?

>>12378784
One is triangular and the other is rotund

>>12378784
>Lifting body
Fat fuselage generating aerodynamic lift
>Flying wing
Normal fuselage and big wings spanning most of the length of it.

>>12378670
On the face of it you may imagine that a rocket's tanks are just metal tubes, but they're metal tubes in the same way a rocket engine is 'just' some plumbing. A huge amount of engineering effort is used to produce vehicle structures that have good wet-dry mass fractions (ie the mass of propellant they hold is much greater than the mass of the actual vessels) that can still hold up to the forces involved in launching vehicles into space.
This problem is actually HARDER for smaller rockets, and gets easier with bigger rockets, because with bigger rockets the thickness of material necessary to achieve a good wet-dry mass ratio is still thick enough to easily work with, but as you shrink the rocket down you eventually end up needing to somehow manufacture shit out of 1/4 mm aluminum and it just becomes very impractical.

For example, Starship uses ~5mm steel sheet metal if I remember correctly, and is 9m wide. A Starship-style vehicle scaled to 36 meters in diameter would be made of steel plate 2 cm thick, or about 3/4 inch. Building shit out of 3/4 inch steel is very easy, because of how stiff the stuff is at human-hand scale. However, going the other way, if you tried to scale Starship down and make a vehicle the size of Electron at 1.2m diameter, you'd need to work with material a bit over half a millimeter thick, which would be easy to accidentally bend and ruin just by holding it wrong with your hands.

>>12378791
>>12378788
how fat can a flying wing be before it's a lifting body?

>>12378761
Pretty sure they were locked in each position. So not for control

>>12378810
If they're not being used as control surfaces they aren't Elonerons, just variable geometry wings.

>>12378801
Fat may be the wrong word, flat and wide, think of a manta flying in the water.

>>12378824
Yeah no I get that, a B2 is clearly a flying wing. How much chonk would you need to add before it becomes a lifting body?

>>12378793
That's a very good post, thanks for that.

>>12378834
You'd need to fully rebuild it, the B2 has a clearly visible fuselage and two engine nacelles integrated into the wings.

The XB 35 looks a lot more like a lifting body.

>>12378834
And here's the XB 49 with jet engines.

>>12378855
He smokes.... pot....

>>12378875
Stupid upload failing me again.

>>12378763
Is that a nuke in space? Aren't those illegal?

>>12378877
>It needs more windows
>Umm okay. I'm just the graphic designer sir. Where do I put them?
>I don't give a fuck Jenkins just add more windows god dammit
>Uhhh... okay

>>12378664
>>12378626
faggots like you are why the right hasn't won anything for the past 60 years. "muh we have to lose with honor" retards should just quit politics alltogether

>>12378881
I don't know, but the fucking eaurobass music mixed with one long run-on Russian sentence and the shitty animation is hilarious

>>12378886
If I had to guess the sensible cockpit is the cockpit, the weird leading edge windows are for the bombardier, and the rear bubble canopy is for a rear gunner

>>12378886
That's not a design, it actually flew. Horribly and crashed with no surviviors because that kind of radical design needs computerized controls.

>>12378042
im a phone fag, i cant spell, and i refuse to succumb to autocorrect

>>12378834
It depends what's produces the lift.
A lifting body generates lift... from it's body.
A flying wing is all wing.

A flying wing and a lifting body aren't even close to the same thing. You might be thinking of a blended body.

>NASA inviting media to come and take pictures of a fucking SRB.
I'm fucking stunned.

>>12378781
This, so very many gay newspace company names

most flown booster (6x!) and 100th f9 launch in 3 bongs
>>12375561

>>12378932
daily reminder that Berger said there is a 75% chance the green run will result in a 6-month delay or longer

>>12378948
What was his justification? Known issues that haven't been reported on yet?

>>12378932
>Artemis 1
>2021
Lmao

>>12378951
It takes 6 months to transport orange tanks from Alabama to Florida, very slow trucks and barges

>>12378932
I hope some cheeky media cunt replies to NASA asking why they can't just reuse Shuttle SRB footage

>>12378951
they use every little tropical storm to delay SLS, all they need is one imperfection. then we get to wait a year, then we do another green run. rinse and repeat forever :)

>>12378952
Fuck Boeing they can suck the big dick. They signed up with NASA to try and win the Artemis rover contract. Imagine not getting a rover until 10 years after Artemis started lmao

With mods anything can be recreated

>>12378973
well yeah once you've got procedural parts and the RO set you can make anything you want, like an F-1B powered Ares 1.

Why does Boeing even submit proposals anymore if they're not even trying to be competitive? Don't they have enough half-baked projects in the works? Blue Origin feels the same way.

>>12378973
Make JWST and launch it

>>12378678
>lifting body
>very specific shape with the fat belly and those turned up tail/wing combos
>even Shuttle wasn't one
>Starship isn't either, faggot
but Dreamchaser is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifting_body
>>12378855
If it's Boing I ain't going!

>>12378990
There are limits anon, calm down

>>12378987
To give the 400 Americans in the bidding department something to do.

>>12378932
>China just launched a lunar lander
>NASA invites journos to photo some O-Rings
The absolute state

>>12379011
Fucking desk jockey boomers doing NOTHING but managing each other smugly showing up to work every day to do fuck all. Fuck Boeing. Fuck old space

>>12378973
Ah good times, made two satellites early on in the game and shot them towards Duna. I "finished" the game before they reached it because i unlocked all the good stuff while they were on their way.

>>12378981
What would be the next step for a newfag that just got tired of stock parts? I need big cilinders to put a number of Rhinos on it.

>>12379014
Hot take, China could land people on the Moon and our political leadership will sit back and let it happen. There will be no urgency. They will say "oh the Chinese are wasting money, fine by us". There will be no space race or competitive land grab. China will own the Moon and the swamp is fine with that

>>12378939
You mean to tell me that Launcher isn't a good and not-at-all confusing name?

>>12379029
The mod tool which lets you download compatible mods with one click.

>>12379034
Launcher has 8 employees and first flight scheduled for 2024. How much you wanna bet the small launch bubble bursts by then

So, scrubbed again. sounds to me like SpaceX is ALL hype

Sitting here just thinking about that time where, after winning a majority of the CCrew contract, Boeing decided the best course of action was to wait it out and hope SpaceX failed so they could ask NASA for more funding because making capsules is hard

>>12379070
Boeing needs to go bankrupt. Someone more competant can use the IP

They can still make four launched in a month right bros?

>SpaceX launch delayed due to bad weather at recovery zone.
Other launch providers have NEVER EVER scrubbed due to bad weather at recovery zone. I'm sorry, but SpaceX is finished bros, guess I'm a ULA stan now.

>>12379084
Tomorrows launch will make it. If not, they still got a whole week free before Dec.

>>12379084
They pushed back the Starlink launch another day. High possibility of making it though.

>>12377494
What you could do is something like SMART where the tank is still discarded but the most expensive (by mass) part of it, the engine and thrust structure, still returns to Earth using a ballute heatshield and supersonic parachutes. You would also need an engine which isn't ruined by sea water on contact though so it can actually be refired after retrieval and cleaning.

>>12379031
Hot take, the American governing class wants China to overtake the USA so they can start making the "see constitutional government with separation of powers is so inefficient, you need to give up all your freedoms so we can organize America's productive output for everyone's benefit :^)" argument

>>12379101
True, count me in, guess I'm on team shill now

>>12378772
AUGH OOOGHAHGH OH,
I'M GONNA, GONNNAAAAAH
I'M PRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONTING OOOOO AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12379101
>scrubbed due to bad weather at recovery zone
Coming to a Rocketlab near you

>>12379078
Botching their contracts, 737MAX, and their dumbfuck CEO spending all their money on stock buybacks. COVID should have been the final nail in the coffin but then congress, republicans and dems both, bailed them out. Shit was a unanimous, bi-partisan vote. Hilarious.

Boomers need to get over their inability to take an L. Corps rise and fall. Corporate socialism is a fucking stupid oxymoron. If your company sucks it deserves to die. Period.

static fire tomorrow

>>12379200
Not tomorrow, the day after tomorrow.

Greetings! Does anyone have a sample of the Falcon 9 avionics datastream during the "Wall" phase of reentry. (咳嗽 咳嗽). It's for a school science project. *坐立不安* Just the flight data for the gyroscope would work, too. [对讲机音]. About 80 - 100 flights worth will do fine.

>>12379211
Tuesday central time for those in different timezones

>>12379109
We don't talk about SMART a lot, but god it's so fucking retarded. Even F9 after all its time refining first stage reuse takes 2-3 launches to pay itself back and the damn thing does all the work itself aside from some of the droneship's time. They're gonna recoup half the relative costs while doing a bigger operation and still performing complete maintenance on the thrust structure. It is better than nothing but it's not even a quarter as good as retropropulsion.

>>12379200

/biz/ idea: paint starship orange and strap fake SRBs to the side so that every time starship flies boing has to explain to the public that it wasn't the real SLS, the real SLS will fly in the current year +1

>>12379235
It's mega brain mode compared to what NASA is doing now which is just a pointless waste of resources. Obviously it cannot compete with a fully reflyable rocket, but you and I both know that barring some complete revolution at NASA, they will never built a fully reflyable rocket. SMART is as close as they will probably get within our lifetimes.

>>12379229
No, wednesday central time. 25th of Nov, Texas Time.

>>12379200
sweet jesus, is that the actual scale?

>>12379244
Nah, boing would just take the credit

Does anyone have a webm of the trench cam from that moon launch today?

>>12379259
Yep

>>12378772
Hey about time there was news about Relativity.

>>12379259
Orange tank diameter 8.4m
Starship 9.0m

What will be the larger version of Starship? 12 or 18m diameter?

>>12379295
8km

>>12379259
it's big. Also people tend to overestimate the shuttle's size

>>12379295
Elon has hypothesized about larger ships but there isn't anything in the works for such a large project at least publicly. Personally I think it would require a borderline F1 sized new engine, simply because the number of raptors and the nightmare levels of plumbing necessary to fly an 18m ship wouldn't be worth it.

>>12378772
>>12379290
what separates them from other smallsat launchers? They're using 3D printing to make expendable rockets, but that's not exactly revolutionary anymore

>>12379200
Fuck I actually like the space shuttle despite it's faults. The SRB's are ugly but the orbiter itself is classic, and the orange tank is really interesting despite it's meme-tier sealevel payload

Once a Martian colony has been established, should a better version of starship be made solely for the Martian sphere of influence?

>>12379307
The shuttle seems pretty fucking big when you're standing next to it- Starship is now just a little more terrifying

>>12379332
Elaborate- better in what ways? More suited to Mars' environment and surroundings specifically? What do you imagine that would entail?

>>12379200
Reminder that Starship is roughly the same size as an S-II

>>12379397
1% atmospheric density would make fins pretty useless while making vacuum optimised engines preferred.
1/3rd the gravity would allow higher payload to mass ratio

>>12379397

He means armed with 100 tons of guns missiles and lasers to turn back urfling refugees

>>12379412
I mean at that point you're just building a whole different rocket

>>12379397
Well, you could make it bigger relatively easily once you have steelworking and a nice dust-proofed tent to work in, you'd even get most of the benefit of vacuum welding since there's barely any atmosphere. Supposedly it can SSTO from the Martian surface once it's got fuel, so I'd say just expand the payload head as much as possible for point to point hops or ferrying large equipment up and down the well as needed.
You wouldn't need the SL engines at all, it would have more than enough thrust with the vac engines, you could also probably significantly reduce the aerosurfaces if not remove them entirely, they might still be needed to a certain degree but they probably don't have to be as large. You don't need as thick a heat shield once your only traveling from LMO to the surface and back, because you'll be coming in nowhere near as fast as you would be from TMI, so reducing it's thickness with Mars-optimized tiles will save you some weight.
You could reduce the legs to save weight too, if it's never returning to Earth it doesn't need landing legs beefy enough to put down in 1G.

>>12379250
?

>>12379416
So when do you become Martian native and not an earth refugee? After you get there I assume?

>>12379250
boca chica residents got the usual notice for testing for tuesday. so it seems the road closure postings haven't been updated yet

>>12379416
Just think, you could fit more than 600 AIM-120 sized missiles into Starship. The longest ranged variant can travel 160+km in a 1G/1 Bar environment, imagine one in vacuum with a hybrid rocket engine instead of the shitty SRM. And a Starship carrying more than half a thousand of them.

CRS-21 date change.

>>12379489
>ClF3/Asbestos hybrid motor

>>12379433
You're thinking in the right direction but too fine grained, these solutions require dedicated infrastructure for constructing all these alternative parts which you would be forced to drag up from Urf. Cut off the payload bay, replace the tiles with an extra layer of sheet metal, and you have most of the benefits and a perfectly good cis-martian cargo vessel that you could make with nothing more than a circular saw and a welder.

>>12379548
I guess I inferred from Anon's question that there was established industry at a sufficient level for a "new Starship" to be made. But yeah, you probably could just simply remove some stuff from the existing ship once it's reached Mars without compromising it's functions.

>>12377335
Does anybody know the diameter of the falcon 9 with its landing legs down?

>>12379325
They're aiming to build rockets with only 3-D printing, humans need not apply.

>>12379325
They want to PROOONT the tanks and all the major parts, not just the engine.

Just imagine what humanity could have achieved had the Soviets and USA tried to go below the seas instead of racing to the moon. Everything we need is right here on Earth, it's just hidden below the oceans. There is a whole world out there to colonize and exploit.

>>12379612
Going to space is un-ironically a lot easier than going that deep into the ocean.

>>12379259
>>12379292
Orange tank:
>height: 153.8 ft
>diameter: 27.6 ft

Starship 2nd stage:
>height: 160 ft
>diameter: 30 ft

holy shit it is bigger. And then I found this: http://nextbigfuture.com/2020/05/spacex-starship-is-bigger-and-cheaper-than-the-external-shuttle-tank.html
>The SpaceX Starship will have six Raptor engines but will still be larger and cheaper than the external fuel tanks of the Space Shuttle.
>A lightweight external space shuttle fuel tank, ET 94, was built at a cost of $75 million. This would be about $140 million in today's dollars after adjusting for inflation. The lightweight tank was intended to pull the shuttle into low-earth orbit. This version was cheaper to build than the super lightweight tanks, which were able to carry more cargo to the International Space Station.
>Elon Musk has a goal of building Starships for $5 million

>>12379612
There'll be seafloor farming by 2070. Have you ever had seafloor baked potatoes that knocked your socks off? You're gonna be.

>>12377790
Explain

>>12379637
Sometimes really good ideas are actually really bad ideas

>>12379630
Unironically, why was the ET so expensive? The entire justification for it was "it's just a tank, it will be cheap lmao".

>>12379472
>>12379486
Welp, looks like they cancelled the cancelled schedule. Earlier today 24th was cancelled lmao. Shit changes every few hours.

>>12379779
yup, the website just updated. Classic spacex

>>12378886

>>12379792

>>12379772
It was built by contractors who were basically told “mehhh I mean give us a price and congress will likely fund whatever you ask for so long as we meet in the middle”
Musk is doing everything on his own companies’s dime and is actively trying to make every component as reasonably priced as possible

>>12377387
>>12377394
>>12377502
>>12377604
>>12377716
>>12377742
>>12378226
>>12378626

Damn, do y'all remember that ESA scientist who wore the sexy woman shirt on the day of the Rosetta landing and cried because his day (and 15 years of hard work) was ruined by twitter SJW's trying to cancel him?

>>12379772
>>12379812
That and there's only so much you can do to make such a ridiculous piece cheap. Sure it's just a tank, but it's a tank that's trying to be lightweight, keep a vast amount of lox and liquid hydrogen (given that the hydrogen wants to freeze the lox, boil off, and escape through the atomic structure all at the same time), and take the loads and vibration of a shuttle and two giant SRBs hanging off of it. Even if they were prepared to do proper cost cutting, you have to start cutting costs by making good design decisions first.

>>12379834
Yeah, what about him?

>>12379842
He's a woman now.

Paradigm shift 2021
>Artemis and Gateway cancelled
>Elon assassinated by Bezos
>Congress cuts NASA's budget by 3/4
>Any and all Mars colonization prohibited outright by the UN until an global effort can be made
>NASA and JPL to focus almost exclusively on climate science
>Russian civil war breaks out
>Šoyuz ISS resupply missions kneecapped, SpaceX unable to maintain morale after Elon's death
>tens of millions of refugees flood into Europe as a result of the civil war
>ESA operations put on hold due to a slew of failed launches and the civil war
Get ready

>>12379850
What KSP mod is this?

>>12379849
Oh, weird.

>>12379849
Well, I suppose that's one way to try and avoid having your career cancelled.
Not sure I'd fucking bother.

>>12379849
source? pls be lying.

>>12379842
Idk I just forgot about him and it gave me a good laugh thinking about him. Feel bad for him but the absolute state of ESA is hilarious
>>12379849
Kek get the you's

>>12379582
Can anyone pls answer this?
>Does anybody know the diameter of the falcon 9 with its landing legs down?

>>12379906
>The rocket landing leg span is 18 m (60 ft)

>>12379483
When you proont babby.

>>12379857
Clown World™

>>12379595
>>12379585
what actual advantage does 3D printing everything give?

https://youtu.be/KZbZZkgovUk

cue benny hill music

>>12379986
SN9 saw its shadow

>>12379980
No need for specialized tooling in a given size. 3D printing avoids a lot of the front-end investment required to change a rocket's design when you can make totally new components without having to build out a specialized production line. On the other hand, I can't see this being better than traditional production methods if they plan on building large numbers of a single design.

>>12380009
The funny thing is people always assume 3D printed = cruise control for free shit. If anything it's just the opposite, it doesn't scale well and handicaps performance.

>>12379980
It can form shapes that would be very difficult or (even more time consuming than prooonting) to form, it saves material by having very little waste compared to machining a part out of an entire block. It can be used for rapid prototyping of metal parts which would otherwise be more expensive to machine prototypes for. Recently there have been advances in hypersonic deposition printers which are almost as fast as a conventional CNC mill for forming a part and completely eliminate the step of laser sintering printers where the part has to be washed and then heat treated to become durable, because the supersonic deposition process cold-forges the metal particles to each-other.
For a Mars habitat a large lander could set down a single big boy rover and power supply with enough material to PROOONT a three story structure out of basalt plastic which is incredibly strong and erosion resistant in a matter of only a couple days, controllers can allow prooonters to spit out several types of material as long as they have a supply of it, and I'm sure rotating tool head decks will be used for larger projects to create different thicknesses of material as necessary.
I think they will eventually outstrip other machining techniques in some fields, without completely replacing them. I'm not under the impression you can proooont everything you'd ever need, but you could proooont more in the future than you can now, faster, and with greater precision. Also I recently heard that some printers are now coming into the market which can introduce carbon fiber weave into the print as it goes, dramatically increasing the strength of the polymer. If you could do this with a basalt plastic printer without degrading the carbon fiber you could probably erect structures that would un-ironically stand for hundreds of years.

>>12380023
Yeah, I'm pretty skeptical of 3D printing tankage being more efficient than welding sheet metal, even if there's a requirement for design flexibility. We're pretty good at making tubes. The technology required to print large structures could be pretty useful for a Martian colony where specialized machinery and plentiful labor for assembly is harder to come by, however.

>>12380030
>For a Mars habitat a large lander could set down a single big boy rover and power supply with enough material to PROOONT a three story structure out of basalt plastic which is incredibly strong and erosion resistant in a matter of only a couple days
I think this is the key application. Send down your rover, monitor the PROOOONT from LMO while remaining onboard your cozy spaceship, and then land once you have a place to live.

>>12380039
>shreklikethatwilleverhappen.jpg

>>12379792
>>12379800
Human civilization peaked in the mid Twentieth Century.

>>12380080
Hopefully it peaks again in 2050
if not, give up all hope and eat the bugs

>>12380077
the gradual progression of the ISS is a thing of beauty
human civilization definitely peaked between 1998 and 2011 :^)

How human does an alien have to be in order for you to fuck it?
>Human
>Human with small alien/animal features (ex. Vulcan, Klingon, anime catgirl)
>Painted human with animal features (ex. Na'vi, Kaminoans)
>Furry animal (ex. zootopia, robin hood animals)
>Actual animals
>Weird shit like a mass of tentacles or sentient crystal

Pic related

>>12380084
Never, ever giving up. But we need to restore the operating system near to its 50s state.

>>12380080
>says someone who never lived at that time

>>12380132
it has to have at least one dick sized hole, tentacles are fine too

Got a 4in refractor for my birthday. got to do a lil sky viewing but it was pretty cloudy. Does sfg discuss telescopes n such or does that belong somewhere else?

>>12380132
I play teraurge and none of what you typed compares to it.
Seriously why the fuck do you think aliens will be like anthropomorphic animals you furnigger?

kek I post this
>>12380141
then out of boredom load the catalog on a whim and see this other anon's thread >>12379464. What the hell.

>>12380272
Not him, but it is a fair assumption, since humans are pretty much just hairless animals, and only because humans perspirate. Without this any animal would keep their fur

>>12380077
This makes the ISS look alot bigger than it really is.

>>12380359
>implying

>>12380359

>>12380132
I fucked a tree once, buddy

>proontfag is at it again

Fuck off and go 3d print a funkopop dragon dildo to dilate your axe would.