/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12373595
there's plenty of safe vaccines out there, why this one in particular?

>>12373676
Not op but they rushed it pretty hard and loosened a lot of regulations

this vaccine is literally a modified virus
seems kinda iffy

>>12373689
U think they will accidentally add poison in there?

>>12373595
I'll explain it simply

Humans sometimes get a virus in them. That virus has a particular set of structures. the immune system finds that those structures are on the banned list, and so does some shit to destroy them. After destroying the virus, some cells decide to stick around for a long time, in case virus-chan returns, these are memory cells.

A vaccine provides these structures to your immune system, to make memory cells, without the negative effects of actually getting a virus.

However, the vaccine needs some other chemicals in it for complex reasons, usually chemicals that are part of your diet.
Some people are allergic to certain chemicals though, and so rarely, about 1 in 1,000,000 a person will get an allergic reaction.

An allergic reaction is the immune system having cells that react to a chemical/structure that it shouldn't.

In older vaccines (in the 60s) the vaccine contained killed virus or virus that had similar structures but couldnt infect humans (but infect apes instead, for example). One of the problems was a fuck up in killing the virus, meaning some shots contained a live virus.

Modern vaccines dont contain viruses (living or dead), they contain parts of the structure, or they give the body a way to produce the structure temporarily (mRNA vaccine).

Generally a virus enters you cell, and uses the cell to make its structures. We can use this mechanism for vaccines. We give the cell the information to make a few structures, which then lead to memory cells. But it is done without injecting a virus.

The covid vaccine, if it is ruled safe, will be safe because it leads to memory cells, without giving us the virus, and without causing allergic reaction (except 1 in 1,000,000). Fortunately allergic reaction is quick and easy to treat

It's probably fine if it's voluntary
if the government or the establishment tries to force it I would really not take the chance
imagine injecting every sheep with slow acting poision

>>12373595
The moderna and pfizer vaccines are mRna vaccines, meaning that these vaccines tell your body to make proteins. All they do is make your body make the spike proteins on the outside of covid-19 so that your body can recognize the real thing and destroy it. This means that these new vaccines literally can't give you covid no matter how much they fuck up since only one protein on the outside of covid is inside of you, not any of the parts that do anything.

>>12373706
>accidentally
No, I think it will be very much on purpose.

>>12373710
High IQ

>>12373774
Low IQ

>>12373774
Why?

>>12373842
isreal

>>12373917
why?

>>12373710
No OP, but how exactly is that going to help?
I mean, the virus attaches to stuff in the back of your nose. There aren't any antibodies floating around. And then the question about how much of a role antibodies play isn't clear AFAIK.

how can we be 100% sure there are no long term side effects?

>>12373676
>mRNA vaccine new of its kind never tested before on an open population
>developed in record time, missing several safety protocols
>big pharma already making deals with the governments to not be held accountable of any potential side effects
>the majority of side effects from vaccination are not known until decades after
You have to at least admit this rushed shit raised a few eyebrows unless you're a low IQ retard who blindly trusts the elites and big pharma.
No, I do not think there's a conspiracy to put "poison" in the shots. I do believe however that this was one of the most blatant races in big pharma for the next golden goose, and there's already been a lot of bad precedents and cautionary tales in history from vaccines that were developed more safely than this one.

>>12374283
you can't until the vaccine has been out for the long term.

covid has some long-term side effects for an alarming number of people though. chronic fatigue syndrome is no joke.

>>12373710
Based

>>12374403
Sauce on rushed vaccine failures?

It will be given to the vulnerable first, you will be able to observe all the effects, literally the weakest people will take it first because of production limitations. Goddamn I hate you fucking low IQ people so much.

>>12373676
>there's plenty of safe vaccines out there, why this one in particular?
not an argument.
double speak exposed.
nice manipulation, faggot.
>>12374403
sauce on the deals?
>>12373595
https://youtu.be/3ztYGyQOq1Q

>>12373754
so literally injecting me and incorporating dna to exist in co-existance with my own ? no thanks. also the side effects of the vaccines were brutal: inflammation and hemorrhage. covid auses inflammation. and im pretty sure the structure function of the spike protein tells all: ur literally telling your body to make spikes forever LITERAL spikes that are floating around and causing damage. that sounds like a recipe for chronic inflammation so more heartburn and diabetes will result. literally medical tyranny.

https://youtu.be/FWWPJ9TaRbA

>>12373924
because people in power do have an incentive to be selfish make money and control people as they like have you ever played generic roleplay gaem? (literally spelled like that)

>>12373754
so like rhabdomyolysis?
also doesn't RNA degrade?
how long will the mRNA be viable?
also how will it get into cells?

>>12373710
But how were those initial memory cells acquired?

>>12375136
I'm asking an honest question retard, notice I didn't come in here claiming covid doesn't exist and vaccines are secretly microchips connected to chinese 5g towers so the government can smell your thoughts. Asking for explanation as to why something is safe is a completely nuanced thing to do

>>12373754
Moderna, and maybe Pfizer's as well not sure, have introduced a mutation into the spike protein... while I can't recall the exact site in the sequence, what the mutation does is essentially make the spike's "closed conformation," i.e. structural state, hyper stable.
In wild type SARS CoV2, the trimer arrangement of the spike protein complex fluctuate between a closed and open state. It's understood that the open state is necessary for viral entry. By stabilizing the closed state you can reduce infectivity.

t. studying covid, but not the spike primarily

>>12373994
>I mean, the virus attaches to stuff in the back of your nose. There aren't any antibodies floating around. And then the question about how much of a role antibodies play isn't clear AFAIK.
There is a limit to the damage that can be done by only attaching to the surface of the body.

>>12375741
It could still travel down to the lung that way, right?

>>12375878
Mostly gets stuck in mucus and transported out.

>>12375922
Well, viruses successfully attacking cells are reproduced exponentially. I can still see them causing quite some damage. I mean, they are causing damage without entering the blood stream in the lungs, right?

WHO ARE YOU TO DENY(( SCIENCE))

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606&tab=PCTBIBLIO

>>12373710
Tldr vaccine is just updating the blacklist

>>12373694
they all are.

>>12373595
>Please convince me I should take it. I have elderly grandparents with lung issues that I have missed dearly
Whether or not you can visit your grandparents again does not depend on *you* taking the vaccine: it depends on *them* taking it and living through that.

>>12375563
When a new antigen (structure that causes an immune response) is detected, immune cells do their function. Some of those immune cells later become memory cells.

That antigen in COVIDs case is either from a living virus, or from a vaccine.

>>12373994
>>12375980

There are other mechanisms, for example if viruses enter your cells, your cell can detect it and present the virus antigen on its cell surface, so the immune system can destroy the cell, reducing virus spread.

With a virus, the number of cells affected is higher because the body has to develop the immune cells for the antigen. If the virus spreads faster than the immune system can develop a response, you'll probably be fucked up, maybe die.

If you get a vaccine, your body has memory cells, and so it more quickly responds to the virus, and destroys less cells in order to stop the virus spread.

The immune system destroying a small number of cells isnt a problem. But its only limited to a small number if youve got the memory cells. Otherwise, like in covids case (without vaccine), it can spread too quickly and your immune system reacts too slowly, then your lungs are destroyed and you probably die

>>12377156
The elderly tend to have weakened immune systems that don't respond as well to vaccines.

>>12377246
>your cell can detect it and present the virus antigen on its cell surface, so the immune system can destroy the cell
That's amazing. Didn't know that.
I see, thanks for the explanation. I still don't see how that helps against infected cells which aren't directly exposed to the blood stream. Like the back of your nose and lung surface, right?

>>12373595
you realise that even if you get the vaccine you still will have to wear the mask etc right?

>>12373694
Old style vaccine - weakened version of a virus to make the immune system react to the virus and give it the means of learning to attack it on infection.
mRNA virus - trick the immune system by using something similar to the virus to think the virus is in the body and give it the means of learning to attack it on infection.

>>12377430
Your mucus membranes are part of your immune system. What the fuck do you think those yellow and green gobs of snot are when you blow chunks when you're ill? That's dead bacteria and shit that's been dealt with.

Do you ever want to leave the country that you live in, go on a vacation to a nice place? Because they're almost certainly going to require anyone who enters sovereign Nations to have gotten this vaccine. Employers are also allowed to require vaccination of their workers.. insurance companies are likely to jack up rates for businesses that don't require their employees to get vaccinated.

It will require you to make actual sacrifices in your life not to get this vaccine, and in my experience, most people can't abide sacrifices of even the mildest kind.

>>12377430
Not all immune cells stay in the blood, its called leukocyte extravasation. So immune cells can get to any infected tissue/cell, even if its not in direct contact with the blood stream.

Unfortunately, this level of detail is usually only taught to first year undergrads who take specific classes or courses. So most people who are anti-vaccine won't know this stuff

>>12377647
I see, thanks. I've read a bit about the immune system, but extravascular mechanisms were never mentioned.

Covid vaccine will be bootstrapped with a bunch of consumer subroutines like buying the new iPhone, taking Zoloft, reading buzzfeed, etc... I ain’t going anywhere near that shit.

>>12373710
it is amazing how fucken dumb you are lol

please don't listen to people like this. All I will say, is PLEASE question everything. As someone who works in the medical field I see stuff fail all the time that is supposed to be safe.

And if you think anyone in a high position of power wont find a way to use this situation to their advantage, you are fucking stupid.