/sci/ - Science & Math

First for space shipping containers.

Reminder to look out at the Blue Moon on Halloween night

>>12291415
>*crack*
>*pressurize*
>"Cygnus? Now that was a can"

>>12291423

>>12291355
>we found that after leaving the core stage out in the wilderness for umpteen months various wildlife had made nests within the core stage's pipes
>will need a few months (years) to repair and a few million (billion) dollars worth of additional funds.
>Thank you for flying (sitting there) with SLS

Bad news!
The SLS has been delayed!

Godspeed to 20 years of ISS. Even though all they've been doing is blowing bubbles and mixing food coloring into water balls

>>12291440
Oh no! Anyway this week we saw the launch of another set of satellites for the Starlink constellation.

>>12291440

>>12291440
ALL IT TAKES IS ONE LITTLE WHOOPSIE DON'T IT?

>>12291442
Reproduction experiments when?
Send some rabbits and let's see how new born rabbits develop in space.

>Confirmed Starlink beta 150Mbps / 30ms / 5 minutes to setup (source Reddit)

>>12291482
I’m sure they did this with mice right? What have they been doing up there?

>try to replicate torkan from xevious in KSP
>expect it to not fly at all
>it actually starts going upwards not even at the end of the runway
>actually flies
Control still kinda sucks, but wow, I did not expect that to actually work at all.

>>12291440
>news

>>12291442
that bitch was MADE to spend 3-6 months fasting on the way to Mars
you may not like it but this is the peak space body

>>12291488

>>12291488
Fucking checked
>>12291523
Yeah that's pretty good. I mean it's what I get here at my apartment but my internet at my parents house is way faster and way cheaper. I think for now it really should just be for people with no internet service but as more satellites go up I hope it starts to rival fiber. I'll be willing to buy it once it starts to outpace my own internet and I can give the finger to AT&T and Xfinity

Dragon when?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x619VW65l1Y

I can’t wait to see the seething in /sfg/ when Joe Biden bans human spaceflight

>>12291565
>military space station with spinny habs and a docked Orion
Is there something they're not telling us?

>>12291489
Literally never, even though it’s one of the MOST OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT EXPERIMENTS TO DO

Why don't they do it?

>>12291565
>When private companies are inventing a new economy beyond our planet, we need to stay one step ahead of the future
>Goes on to only show Boeing rockets
Dead before arrival. US Space Force, 2019-2022

>>12291583
Generals want oldspace contracts after they retire. Elon won't get respect from the brass until he either hires one or delivers a working manned military rocket.

>>12291570
Elon takes SpaceX to Japan. Japan won't extradite and leads spaceflight for the next century.

>>12291570
>elected official making a decision that would lose face for 99.5% of the population

>>12291400
quick question, that bright looking star in the sky next to the moon, is that mars?

>>12291666
Satan, Mars is visibly bright red unless you're color blind. Is the star you're looking at bright red?

>>12291666
if it's red then yeah

>>12291670
>>12291672
yep red tint

>>12291662
>Oh no no no no
>Look at this satellite
>Look at the top of his bandwidth!
>AHAHAHAHAHA

>>12291662
BRB buying a cabin near a lake in the woods.

>>12291687
Shieet, if you mainly work remotely, you could.

>>12291666
https://skyandtelescope.org/interactive-sky-chart/

>>12291704
My employer's HQ is surrounded by rioting anarcho-communists so I don't think I'm going back to the office any time soon.

>>12291687
The urban exodus begins. This whole wuflu thing has demonstrated that a lot of jobs can be telework, and many people are going to be antsy about high population density areas for a long time to come. Enter starlink, to provide cheap and high-quality rural internet access just in time for people to start flocking to the countryside.
I swear, Elon has to be a time traveler or something.

>>12291488
DAMN IT, ELON! GIVE ME STARLINK ALREADY. I EVEN LIVE IN WASHINGTON SO WHAT'S THE HOLD UP?

>>12291710
he provides an off grid power storage solution to boot. just need a cybertruck and a tesla home hvac and we're fucking golden

>>12291705
>https://skyandtelescope.org/interactive-sky-chart/

cheers, yep its Mars. so amazing and bright

>>12291488
My only complaint is that Spacex is a horrible name for a megacorp destined to control a planet

>>12291749
This is before it absorbs other companies to form acronym soup.

>>12291749
Union Pacific doesn't own the States. Spacex is the railroads, the megacorp is coming later. Hopefully it's mine.

>>12291442
In defense of bubbles and food coloring, a good understanding of fluid dynamics in free fall will be essential if we ever hope to begin orbital manufacturing. Silly as it is, space bubbles will lead to essential technologies for making any real move beyond our rock.

>>12291530
The primary market was never people in your apartment. The people who will get the most out of Starlink live in areas where fiber can not be easily brought. Most areas outside of large town still have to rely on copper wires for their internet connection... In the US... (Thanks corporate greed.)

FREEDOM FROM THE PLANETOIDS
AND THE GRAVITY THAT CHAINS US

>>12291774
>(Thanks corporate greed.)
It's not just that. The US has more people living outside of cities or compact towns/villages than the rest of the developed world combined. When eurofags say "my rural village has fiber" they mean their 1km^2 medieval hamlet with adjoining houses has fiber, not isolated farmsteads in the woods. The corporate greed comes in from just fucking pocketing the money that was supposed to build out fiber over 20 years. I'm amazed those ISPs weren't fined out of profitability for that.

>>12291799
well they own the FCC now

>>12291808
Pajeet AI has been the best FCC chair in quite a while.

>>12291662
Important 30ms vs 600ms, unlimited bandwidth vs capped bandwidth.

>>12291809
sure, but that doesn't make my statement untrue. highly doubt the street shitter will fine those ISPs. he's more of a tool for verizon than the rest, and im not sure if verizon has a stake in the fiber fight.

>>12291833
Verizon was the first major ISP to roll out fiber to the home in a serious way. If he's a tool of Verizon, slapping all their competitors with billion dollar fines would be a good start.

>>12291774
It'll never work well in an apartment, but even in a suburban area with otherwise decent internet it's still a benefit since those areas are almost certainly locked to one or maybe two ISPs. Having an alternative that operates literally anywhere with a view of the sky gives a whole hell of a lot more bargaining power to the average homeowner sick of datacaps or other ISP shenanigans.

>>12291835
he's had a lot of time to do it. there must be some loophole in the contracts when those fiber funds were dished out. also if he only attacked competitors, those competitors would sue the FCC and probably win.

>>12291573
starship could put up a station twice as bigger that for barely a fraction of a fraction of the cost of the ISS lol

>>12291853
Starship could build a MARS COLONY for less than the ISS costs.

>>12291855
a small one yeah. but getting hundreds of thousands of people to mars will cost trillions

>>12291523
>30 ms
not bad!

Good news guys, the hurricane didn't hurt the core stage!

How much easier does it get to keep hydrogen from boiling off the further away from the sun you go?

>>12291883
It doesn't. Hydrogen is gaseous even in interstellar space.

>>12291890
METALLIC HYDROGREN INTERSTELLAR COMETS

>>12291895
Metallic hydrogen seeded with Lithium-6.
FUSION
TORCH
SOLID
ROCKET
BOOSTER

>>12291573
The video is exaggerated as fuck, but the military is does have some sort of space station plan (pic related).
>Sierra Nevada Corporation...was awarded a contract to repurpose SNC’s Shooting Star transport vehicle as a proposed commercial solution for an Unmanned Orbital Outpost – essentially a scalable, autonomous space station for experiments and logistics demonstrations – by the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU).
>SNC’s Shooting Star transport vehicle serves as the core structure for the proposed design.
>The proposed orbital outpost will be initially established in LEO with guidance, navigation and control for sustained free-flight operations to host payloads and support space assembly, microgravity, experimentation, logistics, manufacturing, training, test and evaluation.
>Future outposts may be based in a variety of orbits including, medium-Earth orbit, highly elliptical orbit, geosynchronous Earth orbits (GEO) to include GEO transfer orbits, and cislunar orbits.
https://www.sncorp.com/press-releases/dod-selects-snc-to-design-develop-unmanned-orbital-outpost-prototype/

So there's your military space station, at least until they switch to something via Starship. Fun fact: military space stations aren't banned by the Outer Space Treaty either, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a few of them floating around in the coming decades.

>>12291907
I honestly don't see space force putting a single human in orbit any time soon. I hope I eat crow though- it would be neat. Having a constant presence/supply of people in orbit with the philosophy of NOAA corps would be cool (i.e. they are scientists with the capability to be militarized if need be)

>>12291913
elon will convince them to have odsts permanently stationed in a massive constellation that rivals starlink

>>12291915
We could have starfleet with odst capabilities in 10 years. There just isn’t a need for them though (i don’t think). Perhaps once the chinese start their own colonies they will make their own space force branch and it will cause the pentagon to freak out. Imagine tapping into that sweet sweet DoD budget. Best timeline would be them throwing money at elon because he could land soldiers anywhere in the world in under an hour (and they could land military forces on other solar system bodies if need be).

>>12291913
One of the astronauts going to the ISS on the upcoming Crew-1 flight is getting transferred into the Space Force. He'll do the ceremony when he's up there.
https://spacenews.com/nasas-crew-1-commander-to-be-sworn-into-u-s-space-force-from-the-international-space-station/

But yeah, the USSF actually launching their own crew from their own rockets/ships? We're unlikely to see that any time soon.

>>12291907
>The video is exaggerated as fuck
The Marines had a recruitment video about fighting a dragon with a sword. "Bigger space station than we have yet" is nothing.

>>12291921
Oh holy shit. The seething is going to be delicious.

>>12291921
maybe not Space Force, but TRANSCOM wanna demo cargo and "personnel" p2p travel on starship lol

One thing to note though...the military supports the Antarctica research stations alot, providing shipments and flights to the outposts. Maybe we'll see a similar thing with Lunar bases and space stations?

>>12291928
There will be a military moonbase about as soon as Space Force can buy a Moonship fleet from Elon.

>>12291419
Was a beautiful sight.

>>12291440
James! Bad news!
The SLS will not be launching the Europa clipper!

>>12291749
Spacexy.

>>12291936
Military forces and bases on the Moon are outlawed by the Outer Space Treaty. I don't see that changing any time soon... eventually it will, but probably not in the near future.
>The moon and other celestial bodies shall be used by all States Parties to the Treaty exclusively for peaceful purposes. The establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any type of weapons and the conduct of military manoeuvres on celestial bodies shall be forbidden. The use of military personnel for scientific research or for any other peaceful purposes shall not be prohibited. The use of any equipment or facility necessary for peaceful exploration of the moon and other celestial bodies shall also not be prohibited.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty_of_1967#Article_IV

You can still use the military for peaceful and scientific purposes, but you can't set up bases to house combat troops or anything.

>>12291890
Yeah but it’d be easier to keep ice frozen at an environmental temperature of 70 Fahrenheit than at 120 Fahrenheit

>>12291924
>The Marines had a recruitment video about fighting a dragon with a sword

That’s actually happened according to some loose evidence gathered since 2002.

>>12291948
Just flush the treaty down the toilet lol

>>12291948
Meh, treaties exist to be bent and broken nowadays. Look at the US-RU Ballistic missile treaties.

>>12291970
As long there isn't a higher power to enforce them or punish the party responsible for breaking them, they might as well be a promise like "Lol dude I ain't touching your last slice of pizza I swear"

>>12291948
I’m willing to bet that treaty is getting thrown out the window in the next decade or two

>>12291959
What Isp does a dragon have?

>>12291948
>Military forces and bases on the Moon are outlawed by the Outer Space Treaty
Cool, they're welcome to land on the moon and hand deliver a complaint.

>>12291948
>International treaties
>Law

>>12291948
>The use of any equipment or facility necessary for peaceful exploration of the moon and other celestial bodies shall also not be prohibited.
This military base is necessary to secure funding for non military space exploration because our leaders are retards.

>>12291442
Mystery goo?

Axiom is looking into inflatable modules for space stations.
https://twitter.com/Axiom_Space/status/1321149091523534851

>>12292002
>starship delivered expandable modules 15 meters wide and 20 meters long
>a 4 story building sized internal volume
comfy

>>12292002
Someone brought up Axiom hiring SNC to build inflatable modules for them since the company is getting into the inflatables business.
https://twitter.com/SierraNevCorp/status/1301636608941318144

>>12292085
>floors pointed the wrong way
If they're in line with the airlock you can use them as spacecraft modules instead of station modules

>>12292085
For now SNC is engineering the HLS system. Everything else is powerpoint.
Source : Know someone there.

>>12291907
>military space station
>It's a bucket to shit in in space

>>12292190
I think it's more like a variation on the X-37B idea of a modifiable long duration platform for space research.

>>12292198
No, it's the trunk of the Dreamchaser. Left behind.

>>12292200
You take what you can get.

>>12292202
Yeah, but instead of dumping it into the atmosphere to burn up on re-entry, they decided to leave it behind and call it a "military space station".
This is not "taking what you can get", this is just semantics.

>>12291488
Checked

>>12291687
>Buying
BUILT IT FAGGOT.
Return to monke.
>With Starlink, multiple devices and solar panels ofc

>>12291924
>The Marines had a recruitment video about fighting a dragon with a sword.
>what is a metaphor?
>>12291710
This is easily the best and most important thing about Starlink.
>>12291799
>The US has more people living outside of cities or compact towns/villages than the rest of the developed world combined.
Really?

Remember Mother Earth gave you life, gave you warmth, and food, and a whole world teeming with life and beauty.
Abandoning Her is a SIN. It's a CRIME. And it's UNFORGIVABLE.

>>12292429
>gave you warmth
That's the Sun.

>>12292002
>>12292085
I still believe axiom is just another oldspace tax scam.
Have we even seen anything real from them outside of some fancy artist renderings of what they would do?

>>12292459
They got the contract from nasa to start attaching their modules onto the ISS for 2024
https://spacenews.com/axiom-space-finalizing-first-commercial-iss-mission/

>>12292429
Idolatry is a sin anon.
Christ is the way

>>12292459
>bothering with inflatables when you've got 1000m3 habitable space shuttle not counting the tanks
>is it oldspace tax scam?

Take a guess.

>>12292459
The first commercial Dragon 2 flight is an Axiom flight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Axiom_Space-1
It's the mission Tom Cruise is going on.

In high school I asked a girl to prom with a poster that had a bunch of ULA stuff on it. I posted it somewhere and Tory Bruno replies and said “Nice going” and I ended up getting a gift baggy with ULA merch for free.

>>12292491
>no solid rocket boosters
Yawn.

>>12292502
>he fell for the SRB meme

>>12292491
Are you posting it again or has it become a meme

>>12292490
They are pretty much the touroperater for that mission, not impressive at all.

>>12291948
That is basically the same as what it says about Antarctica.
You can use military personnel, but cannot use it for a military purpose.

>>12291948
Serious question: what would other governments go if the US broke this treaty?

>https://twitter.com/carolynporco/status/1321823514375061505
>"SpaceX will make its own laws on Mars" & not recognize international laws.
>Proof that the kind of excess wealth that leads to power & influence leads also to unrestrainable, blinding hubris & arrogance, & thence to evil.
>This must be stopped now.

This cunt works at nasa. The absolute state of despotic state bureaucracies and the rats manning them (ha!).

>>12292548
>we sternly condemn these actions

>>12292551
>The absolute state of despotic state bureaucracies and the rats manning them (ha!).
No need to worry. Their time is coming to an end (and they know it)

>>12292548
Finance sympathetic domestic terrorist groups to protest and disrupt the launches and possibly the government if they succeed in triggering sufficiently large public Outrage?

>>12292551
The sooner space can be industrialized, the sooner these people are out of a job forever. There is nothing this bitch fears more than <$100/kg to orbit.

>>12292567
your conceptualization of the proactiveness of the international community is adorable

>>12292571
Can't wait for starship to get things down to below $30/kg to orbit. Probably won't happen until the late 2020s though.

>>12292548
US is more dependent upon space than any other power. Anything that compromises the security situation in space necessarily disproportionately affects it.

>>12292579
>implying China wouldn't do anything within its power to stop America
>implying Israel wouldn't declare space colonization white supremacy and have the FAA ground SpaceX
I was gonna go on but those are really the only two that have both the will and the power to do anything about it. But don't expect to get out of the bucket so easy, these crabs are vicious.

>>12291940
The what?

>>12292548
Probably share some strongly negative words considering that the treaty has no repercussions for breaking it written into it.

>>12291940
Good news is that means it's actually going to launch!

>>12292591
>implying China wouldn't do anything within its power to stop America
Makes sense, but what would they do that won't immediately spark international tensions?
>implying Israel wouldn't declare space colonization white supremacy and have the FAA ground SpaceX
What would Israel gain from that?

>>12292579
China and Russia have been pulling shit like this for less. The risk of US expansion in space won't be ignored by them.
Here's exhibit of individual that will gladly assist their efforts >>12292551

>>12292612
>Makes sense, but what would they do that won't immediately spark international tensions?
Nothing. But not letting the US find a way to snowball down an infinitely long mountainside would be worth making people hate them more. We've seen as much with the coronavirus and all of their shilling about it to try to hurt the economy of the west. The only way they won't do something is if they think it would give the US grounds and motivation for war with them, but even that's not a guarantee.
>What would Israel gain from that?
Maintaining centralization of power and thus control. The backlash against Musk deciding to found his own set of laws on the future Martian colony from them (currently just indirectly as far as I know) is proof enough of that, and this is still during the time when many people think we won't land a man on Mars until the 40s, just imagine how much more aggressive they'd get if the threat were really right in their face.

One or two dinners between Elon and someone important or representing someone important and he'll drop all the Mars nonsense. That or traffic accident. The man decides himself.

>>12292634
tfw Elon's Cybertruck has inhuman reflexes and bulletproof windows. All part of the plan.

>>12292591
Israel's number one meal ticket is US hegemony to piggyback on, they'll have dollarsigns in their eyes. Ironically it's US jews that will oppose it.
China will try, what's new? They've been trying the same shit for years. Adjusting policy to appease the chinks is self defeating.

>>12292430
GIVER OF LIFE AND THE GIVER OF SPEED

>>12292486
based

Why are people against militarization of space? We love our troops!

What was the spookiest space mission?

>>12292645
Israel will still benefit from US expansion in space, but only in the same way that all of humanity will just by virtue of that being the nature of technological advancement rather than being special like they have been. Decentralization and self-determination, two things that are effectively inseparable from colonization and frontiers, are poison to the way they thrive and ensure their special seat at the table above everyone else.

>>12292690
Lots of people hate “the military” for various reasons. In the US, a lot of lefties/liberals hate it because they kill brown people or something. In Europe, they just hate the idea of a stronger US military. Say what you want about republicans being stupid but they love all this patriotic shit. Republicans are more likely to support SpaceX/Space Force...for some reason.

>>12292690
Seems like some people want that idealized peaceful Star Trek Federation future while overlooking that Starfleet is a military.

>James BridenSTINE
>Most based NASA head in decades
Wtf? Do based Jews exist? Like aside from KISS and whatnot

>>12292706
I take it back. Just found out he’s baptist. What a strange last name though

>>12292706
>>12292710
>A portion of your last name automatically dictates your religion and beliefs

>>12292769
dictates more then that if you 'believe' in genetics

>>12292706
It's Stine not Stein you dinglebat

>>12291400

>>12292703
It's because the value of space is becoming increasingly obvious. While it is true that a general suspicion and mistrust of the "new" is a component of conservative mentality, a certain level of pragmatism is also a component, as well as a concern for external competition.
Nobody has really managed to "sell" space to the Republican majority because for some reason, they haven't grasped what makes them tick. Space has to be sold to them as a vast supply of precious resources ripe to be monopolized by America unilaterally, and they have to be faced with the threat that if America doesn't Chyna absolutely will given enough time.

The worst trait of American conservative politicians is that as a whole entity they are absolute cowards, and you need to give them a major shove to get them to move their asses and do anything productive.

>>12292691
Soyuz 11 was pretty spooky. As far as the ground crew knew, the astronauts were fine when they landed. Until they realized they weren't
>Outwardly, there was no damage whatsoever. They knocked on the side, but there was no response from within. On opening the hatch, they found all three men in their couches, motionless, with dark-blue patches on their faces and trails of blood from their noses and ears. They removed them from the descent module. Dobrovolsky was still warm. The doctors gave artificial respiration. Based on their reports, the cause of death was suffocation

>>12291400
>Starship coming along nicely; all road closures cancelled unfortunately (Oct 30 – Nov 4)
No they aren't, only the October dates were cancelled.
https://www.cameroncounty.us/spacex/

>>12291948
the rules of space are defined by whoever puts a gun on their ship first, not what some paper 50 years ago says

The US and China realize this and will counter one another almost immediately. Question is who is going to make the first move.

>>12292804
Yep. Static fire still tomorrow afaik.

Could a metallic fueled NTR feasably lift off a rocket from sea level?

>>12292883
There are types of LH2 propelled NTPRs which can liftoff easily from Earth, but they require a durable configuration of fuel element which *still* hasn't been worked out due to the sluggish nature of obtaining nuclear fuel to experiment with.

>>12292691
Apollo 10 for when they heard spooky space music when they were on the farside of the moon

>>12292853
tomorrow morning or evening?

>>12292883
>Here's ur rocket bro

>>12292946
:(

>>12292946
thats usable

>>12292938
https://www.cameroncounty.us/spacex/

the closure tomorrow is between 7:00 p.m. – 1:00 a.m.

>>12292285
>Really?
It's an artifact of how the US was settled. Other than the Civil War, the interior of the US has never had to deal with organized military threats, just indian raids a farmer could reasonably chase off with a musket or rifle. Land was free to anyone who could settle it, and the government had a formal process for handling this called homesteading. Towns were never a huddled mass of farmer's houses together like in older countries, but built around church, school, stores, and government buildings. We only got cities in places with economic draws, typically next to rivers for water power or shipping, or at harbors. Mass urbanization was an artifact of immigration after the closing of the frontier, and of blacks moving away from the south to find work - groups of people with no hope of buying land. Incidentally this is why urban politics are so awful. Real Americans live some place you need a horse or a car to get around.

>>12293012
Seems like the perfect kind of mentality for colonizing space.

Has boeings rejected proposal for HLS been released anywhere?
I'm interested in seeing what they were offering

>>12293038
Pulled it from the Wikipedia page. This article has the highest definition picture of the thing
https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/11/09/boeing-proposes-sls-launched-lunar-lander/

>>12293047
So basically just the LEM?

>>12293037
Chinese Bat AIDS plus all the wildfires has actually been a good test run for living in enclosed spaces and needing breathing apparatus to go outside. Turns out Americans can handle it just fine if it's a real need, and the resistance only starts when it becomes a political game. Nobody living on Mars will claim the need for space suits is a hoax.

>>12293047
it doesnt look too complicated. then again neither did starliner or the fuckin max. what was nasa's problem with it, other than boeing's past performance?

>>12293053
Yeah but somehow more expensive and shittier. I'm glad (and, quite frankly, surprised) Jim told them to fuck off

>>12293067
>Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

>>12293067
All proposals were supposed to be private (i.e. Boeing wasn't allowed to cheat and look at other people's proposals). It turned out Boeing was charging like a million times more money than what SpaceX and Dynetics were charging. An executive at NASA cheated and told Boeing what other people were pricing their landers at and told them to reduce the price. I think this made way to Jim and he decided not to go with them

>>12293069
hahahah

>>12293053
If NASA wants an upgraded LEM the ALPACA proposal is far superior to any overpriced boing bullshit.

>>12293071
yeah yeah i know the whole loverro schtick. but from what i read boeing wasnt being considered even after the changes they made to the bid, so it mustve been exceptionally shitty. was it literally just money?

>>12293063
>falling for the unbreathable mars air meme so you have to buy air from "vendors"

>>12293071
I might be wrong on this but didn't Boeing's proposal also rely on the SLS even though NASA requested a modular design that could be sent on smaller launchers?

>>12293078
There's also the issue that Boeing's lander requires SLS to launch, and NASA wanted to emphasize commercial launchers.

>>12292946
At least you gave me some inspiration today.

>>12293078
It had to have been money. It was super expensive and super underpowered. Not to mention it relied on SLS which would mean an SLS would HAVE to be built to launch it each time (pushing back other things like Europa Clipper). I think Jim saw "SLS" in the proposal name and immediately said yeah fuck you

>>12293079
We have free public provided air
We just feed and house the guys who keep the thing running
It's an ideal system

>>12293087
HAHAHA WTF??? THEY NEED TWO HEAVY LIFT LAUNCHES TO GET TO THE MOON???? WHY NOT SETTLE FOR THREE AND LAUNCH ON HEAVY???? AHAHA FUCK BOEING THEY GOT WHAT THEY FUCKIN DESERVED

>>12293089
FUCK URF

>>12293087
Boeing's lander could launch on Starship.

>>12293087
Does Boeing get paid for every orange tank they make for SLS? Talk about double dipping for money.

>>12293097
>THEY NEED TWO HEAVY LIFT LAUNCHES TO GET TO THE MOON????
Yes. One Block 1B for the whole lander, and one Block 1 for the Orion spacecraft carrying the crew. Boeing also tried using the single launch for the lander as a selling point iirc.

>>12293111
Of course they are. And they get paid cost plus too and they were lobbying to get the lander onto a cost plus contract as well.

>>12293111
>Does Boeing get paid for every orange tank they make for SLS?
No. They get paid for every orange tank NASA orders. Building them is pretty much optional at this point.

>>12293112
von braun would laugh these chucklefucks out of the goddamn room. wish i coulda seen the look on jim's face when they laid that dump on his desk. god almighty

and the fact boeing had insider HELP and they couldnt bring themselves to actually compete. the absolute state

Tell me about the commercial SLS Boeing was talking about.
If, hypothetically, I were interested in buying one for a GEO sat, how much would I be expected to pay and when can I expect my bird to fly?

>>12293089
>"The Celest Invicta's got a bigger fast reactor that runs hotter than any frigate in her class, so her power can sneak up on you. If you had an ordinary helmsman."
>"Lucky for you, I'm no ordinary helmsman."

>>12293132
If Jim is to have any lasting legacy it's how excellently he guided the Artemis program despite oldspace doing everything it could to turn it into another money maker

>>12293134
$2+B for rocket. That's without any r/d amortization.

>>12291662
price on each one ? I'm going to guess ~$150 for the first two and starlink is $100 right?

>>12292429
Earth is just a rock lol

>>12293142
Fucking politics.
In a meritocracy Jim would be NASA Administrator for 25+ years.
Instead he will be lucky to get 8

>>12293142
if that Horne cunt gets in expect a single source cost plus HLS contract to boeing for phase 2. never underestimate the power of future leaders to erase all progress, see nixon. this is why an autist like elon is a godsend

>>12293180
He's a climate change denialist. Getting 4 years as head of nasa is already too much and the quicker the new administration places someone with proper scientific background there the better.

>>12293068
>>12293091
>>12293068
fucking hell Jim had better stay on. Take everything from me but don't take my space.

>>12293195

>>12292703
>In Europe, they just hate the idea of a stronger US military.
Euro here, we dont give a flying fuck if you have a powerfull army, it's just obvious to us from a outside point of view that the reason for the US going to war and the result is fucked up and a lot of innocent people always get killed.
Also you guys took out saddam&khadaffi, the gatekeepers of the muslim hordes and now we are drowning in refugees.
So it's not that we are "jealous" of your great army, it's just that you retards should use it for good instead of fucking up the world even more.
Build a fucking militarized moonbase for all i care, just stop killing middle eastern dictators who keep the muslims from killing each other.

>>12293204
it wasnt even good bait :(

>>12293208
Somebody has to maintain the western world order. Since the euros are either unable or unwilling, the US has to compensate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnId8E--ZN4
>what could have been

>>12293204
>anyone not actively blowing this dude is baiting us.

>>12293210
>bad bait
I literally based it on articles I read from major journals before he got the post.

>>12293213
>maintain the western world order.
Yes, the US is doing a stellar job.
Keep it up, maybe after killing enough muslims they will get the message and back off, it worked in vietnam too, right....

>>12293208
I for one demand the US bomb the middle east more.

>>12292486
>Middle-Eastern jewish fairy tales
>American

GPS Falcon static fire soon. This launch is scheduled for Wednesday evening and the Atlas NROL launch is scheduled for Tuesday evening.

>>12293220
Yes. They eagerly accepted the US's demands to not invade South Vietnam after the US started bulldozing Hanoi from the sky. Of course, just a few years after the war ended and the Americans went home they invaded anyways because they knew the US didn't give enough of a shit about South Vietnam to do anything if they weren't already at war. The situation now just tells us that we haven't been bombing them enough to make them accept the message and/or we haven't been bombing the right people.
Also a big military exists for a hell of a lot more than just that shit, especially the Navy.

>>12293246
>Tfw ULA is setting up for another post lite scrub

>>12293248
The us dropped more bombs on vietnam then entire second world war, the fuck are you smoking?
In reality the US should have cut off china&soviets from suplying vietnam from the start of the war but somehow that was always something that was ignored for the most part.

>>12293259
Also being an unpopular war.

>>12293259
Because the US didn't want to pull the ChiComs fully into the war (and risk Soviet intervention as well) and because people didn't want the war even when it started. The "right" decision would have been to not start a war in that region to begin with.

>>12293259
The United States made nothing but bad decisions in the war because they wanted to keep other foreign powers at bay while also not pissing off Americans at home and other nations of the world.
Wars, these days, are not won on the battlefield.

>>12293227
As american as apple pie

>>12293259
It was ignored because during the Korean war the media wouldn't stop talking about Chinese human wave tactics which made the public think it was some sort of kryptonite to American forces (the Chinese sent 1.5 million of their most well trained troops that were some of the only veterans they had from WWII into Korea and lost several hundred thousand) and thus the military was told that there wasn't a chance in hell that they would be allowed to fight China, for that very same reason they were also told that they weren't allowed to invade North Vietnam with ground troops. Considering that Vietnam is already the war with the worst public opinion it would have made things far worse if the both the media had more shit to bitch about and if it were a much larger war against a much larger power. Plus there's also the fact that the US in general was trying to not escalate things with the USSR, and directly fighting their (at the time still) close ally wouldn't exactly have helped that.
Though none of this would even matter if the US just helped the Chinese Nationalists clean up their civil war after the world war, back when they could've done literally anything they wanted and no one could stop them.

>>12293195
Climate change is not a real issue anyone should care about.

>>12293246
is SpaceX the only company that performs static fires before launch?

>>12293298
Everybody using a liquid engine does.

>>12293220
>the US is doing a stellar job
Compared to the alternative of completely ignoring western interests abroad? Absolutely.

>>12293312
Even something like a delta IV with an ablative nozzle?

>>12293319
Do you have any idea how short the F9 static fire is? It's a short brap just to make sure that everything is functioning as it should. The fucking RS-68's can survive a hot abort, they can survive a test fire of that kind. They're not made of papier mache.

>>12293326
oh, I thought I had read somewhere that it was a full-duration static fire. But my memory is trash so nevermind. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>12293337
Nobody does that. You probably got that confused with the full duration green run for the Shit Launcher System. That's because they don't know if it'll even fucking work when they light it.

>>12293341
The green run will never happen

>>12293341
If the SLS explodes on the test bed Jim will throw Boeing under the bus so fast the delta v could send a rocket into a direct Jupiter insertion

>>12293355
Well, not this year anyways.
And it most assuredly won't launch next year. You can fucking screencap this post.

>>12293359
Bold prediction. I predict it won't launch in 2022 either. If the green run happens, the core will fucking explode

>>12293357
The green run MUST happen while Jim is still administrator. It MUST explode.

Shitting on SLS will be Jim's last dab if he is replaced next year

spaceflight? LOL more like boys and their toys

Guys I’m scared there’s this grey thing moving on my screen

>>12293380
guys I'm absolutely terrified

>>12293208
The "military-industrial complex" has been a major source of never-Trumpers. They need those trash wars to sell more weapons, and Trump has worked to reduce the trash wars that make them rich. So of course they hate him.

>>12293063
Idk. Celeberties started crying the first two weeks of covid because they were stuck in their mansions and weren't the center of attention anymore. Maybe they will sing john lennon's Imagine on Mars once they start losing their minds

>>12293413
It's the ghost of William Edward Boeing
>>12293111
Fucking pathetic. Oldspace is a shell of its former self

>>12293425
Trump took the Eisenhower pill somewhere down the road

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNZx208bw0g
40 min video on the history of the SLS selection process. It's very clear in retrospect that they should've gone with the F-1B/J-2X modernized Saturn configuration, but he discusses the logic that led to NASA going with a shuttle-derived launcher.

I dread to ask but has anyone ever made side-mounted boosters that use hydrolox?

>>12293526

>>12291442
Honestly the most important thing the ISS has done is give us information on how the human body performs in microgravity/freefall over long periods of time and what to do to keep people from turning into jelly. People always talk about going to Mars but they forget that it would be like 4+ years or so in microgravity and even with the ISS the most anyone has done is a little over a year.

>>12293506
>led to NASA going with a shuttle-derived launcher.
was it anything more substantial than saving time/money? (on paper, at least)

>>12293542
Lower Martian gravity is completely different from the zero gravity of the ISS

>>12293552
My assumption: making congress happy (by keeping shuttle contractors employed, ergo more money to each individual state) so that congress would be willing to up the overall budget for Artemis as a whole. Haven't watched the video yet I'll do it right now and see what he has to say about the technologies

>>12293526
it worked about as well as you'd expect.

And for fun, price:
F9: 62M
FH: $90M
DIVH: $350M
No wonder oldspace is seething so hard. SpaceX is seriously cutting into their ability to make hundreds of millions off of their shitty rockets.

>>12293557
I'm aware, but it's still a problem. Not as big of a problem but it IS a problem.

Not to mention the 18 months in actual deep space.

The point is, the ISS has taught us how to keep humans alive in space long enough to actually go land on some shit outside the Earth-Moon system.

>>12293208
That was clinton, obama, and all the parasitic jew neocons stuck to them, eurofag. they broke the floodgates. Yet I saw a poll of you guys and all EU countries overwhelmingly want biden and that scum to win. Think more.

>>12293576
Makes me wonder why the "SpaceX is doing predatory pricing" ordeal died out so soon. Seems like something oldspace would have pushed hard.

>>12293577
How do you know it is a problem?
We have absolutely no idea about the effects of low gravity compared to micro gravity

>>12293588
They did receive some decent pushback. I mean watching massively subsidized entities whine that things aren't quite as cushy for them is utterly pitiful. Like how the ESA was recently bitching about SpaceX. It just looks bad.

>>12293542
>Honestly the most important thing the ISS has done is give us information on how the human body performs in microgravity/freefall over long periods of time and what to do to keep people from turning into jelly.
But wasn't such information also gathered on Mir?

Why is chris such a fucking faggot?

>>12293601
Who?

>>12293601
What was the opinion that was being referred to?

>>12293603
Space reporter (NASAspaceflight)

>>12293604
Crying about Trump, like always.

>>12293577
>I'm aware, but it's still a problem

You don’t know that.

>>12293601
Who cares what retards on Twitter do?

>>12293609
>B-b-BLUMPFT
>SuPer CoURt
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>12293588
>>12293597
oh, I forgot to add: just because they aren't being public about it doesn't mean that it's not happening behind the scenes. You can bet that they're lobbying to bring back the status quo as much as possible, such as putting an oldspace crony back in the NASA admin slot. Fortunately the cat is out of the bag at this point so they're a bit limited how hard they can fuck everything up. I hope.

>>12293220
>it worked in vietnam too, right....
Yes.

>>12293609
don't care
still voting trump

>>12293584
Euro media paints trump as satan incarnate and biden as some kind of veteran politican of the poeple.
Most europeans dont now whats going on really in the US, about as much as the average american knows whats going on in the EU.
I would not put much stock in a poll made in europe about US politics.

>>12293601
Based Homer Hickam in the replies

>>12293584
Of course they do, he's a politician for hire.

>>12293552
Okay I'm half way through the video (he is still talking about the LOX/RP-1 proposals) but I know where he is going with it. You are correct. An RP-1 rocket akin to Saturn V would have been way better but cost a fuck ton. Even upgrading something like the F1 to the F1B would still take a huge price hike in the beginning years and Congress didn't want to do that. They also wanted to upgrade the RD-180's for upper stage and that would cost more money. On top of that they would have to redesign all of shuttle's infrastructure (think launch pads and stuff) to now deal with RP-1 and rockets of different sizes. Going with shuttle-derived was cheaper on paper

>>12293625
Good
>>12293617
I mean, he isn't the usual retarded leftie who's screaming that spaceflight is racist.

>>12293601
NSF in general is fueled by hydrolox and onions

>>12293601
Has physiognomy ever been wrong? All these fags look the same

>>12293648
Yeah, all he said was that Mars should only be treated like a nature reserve and science outpost because humans will ruin it otherwise

>>12293630
Europoor here basically this.

>>12292429
>Those who abandoned the Earth shall be punished. Earth must be restored to her rightful place

>>12293654
What a retard

>>12293645
>They also wanted to upgrade the RD-180's for upper stage
lmao whoops

>>12293413
You are hallucinating there's no such thing dancing around the corners of the screen.
Or under your skin.

>>12293380
Did you get this sorted out frend? i hope u remain safe

>>12293645
I think the core issue that many SLS detractors are overlooking is that no rocket plans given to NASA and its oldspace contractors would have been cheaper than SLS. You could design a rocket that costs zero money to make, and they would still find ways to drive up the cost to billions. The core issue of SLS isn't technical, but due to poor management overall. Oldspace contractors not being efficient with their development process, and NASA encouraging that behavior. It shouldn't have taken Boeing almost ten years to build a tank using technology that they were familiar with, and when they got late with their milestones NASA shouldn't have blindly given Boeing the financial reward for the missed milestone.

>>12293674
10/10

Fucking Earth cult.

>>12291841
the loophole is the way that the districts are drawn out due to gerrymandering, they can provide fiber to the little finger that stretches into the cities

>>12292429
Musk should build a self sustaining world on Mars and then nuke earth. Human IQ would rise by 50 points overnight.

>>12291931
thank you

>>12293703
DIRECT or literally paying ULA for multiple launches would have, if not cheaper, actually produced tangible results in the form of missions by now.
Proponents of the SLS often overlook the greatest drive behind that rocket's creation - that it was born solely to continue old contracts. Not missions, not goals. Contracts. Obama literally gave no shit about space and let lobbyists write it into law just so they don't pester him about that topic.
Any reasoning defending it, be it single launch architecture(busted already), or mass to solar escape trajectory (not busted yet), or assured schedule, are simply sand in the eyes post factum.

>>12293723
IQ is lower on earth because of all the pollution from capitalism. Mars must give aid because they are colonialist oppressors who abandoned earth because it was so much harder to live here than on mars.

>>12293609
>>12293601
I hate having to read random rants and unrelated topics from Twitter accounts. Twitter is for news and updates, it's not your personal blog (inb4 "microblogging"). A cute animal once a blue moon? Sure maybe, but overall these people act like children. We need space aggregator accounts that will retweet from big accounts without including their unnecessary bs.

>>12293726
This post is fractally correct. The really horrific thing is that SLS has been delayed so long that we are one room temperature superconductor away from trivial high-Isp SSTO spaceplanes, and they're still fucking around with a 70s design.

>>12292883
Assuming a 30:1 tw/r you could easily lift off, the problem is the rocket would have to be small or the engines oversized, and this cuts into your mass ratio. Don't use Nuclear boosters.

>>12293542
this
people always claim we could have had a mars mission in the 80s but we need that experience we gather in microgravity today
not saying that a mars mission is only possible now. skylab and mir helped very much in that area but still the research and the experience gained with the iss is not to undervalue

>>12293747
This is why we need the Gateway so much. It's important we give at least 20, better 40, years of microgravity research in environment outside of Earth's Magnetic field so we can study what are the effects in environment almost identical interplanetary space and what astronauts will experience in their journey to Mars sometime in the undefined future. Without such knowledge we'll be putting human lives at immense risk as our understanding on the physiological reactions in such conditions is minimal.

>>12293751
Why not do the test around Mars?

>>12293621
based

>>12293751
>only 40 years of study
Anon, humans can live to 100 or more. Until we know the long term effects of microgravity across a century or more, we shouldn't be sending anyone outside of LEO.

The Air and Space museum gives you (and SpaceX) a grant to preserve the ISS in 2030. Do you boost it to a higher orbit to act as a destination for space tourists, or do you disassemble the station piece by piece to bring it back to Earth as the world's most expensive museum exhibit? Assume the cost was somehow equivalent.

>>12293791
Frankly sending people to LEO is a dangerous enough endeavor as it is. We should focus purely on sub-orbital flights until we can prove that space is a safe environment to explore long term

>>12293797
Assuming the grant let me do anything, I would bring it back piece by piece. All you really need are the core modules and the truss. Radiators and Solar Panels can go. It would be cool to set up in Houston or something. (But realistically we all know it's going to get deorbited so I have already accepted its fate)

>>12293803
But we don't even know all of the effects space can have on the human body, and what if a chute fails or if the rocket explodes? All of the possibilities should be researched on the ground before we start pointlessly wasting lives suborbitally.

>>12293797
BOOST

Imagine having a HAUNTED SPACE STATION in a GRAVEYARD ORBIT to visit on space Halloween.

>>12293797
hold the ISS hostage for $150 billion USD for oldspace

>>12293817
*from oldspace

>>12292705
I’d rather be Klingons.

>>12293840
we wuz klangz

>>12293751
keked
also remember the gateway has to be painted orange

>>12293797
It should stay in space

space is shit

>>12293803
we have to study the long term effects of suborbital flights. as long as nobody has ever done a 50 year suborbital mission it is far to dangerous to send people to leo

>>12293797
The only way you're getting the ISS back at this point is bringing it back piece by piece on Starship. Much cheaper and more profitable to leave it in a graveyard orbit and fly tourists on Starship to the ISS than bring it back. Not to mention you could always have a fleet of Starships disassemble and carry the important modules to Mars/Venus/Wherever orbit to use as a space station there on the cheap.

Every time humanity builds a new space station we just send the old stations further out in the Solar system. Some day the ISS will orbit Pluto as a small refueling stop for Interstellar Starship.

>>12293854
>Some day the ISS will orbit Pluto as a small refueling stop for Interstellar Starship.
And it'll still be running Linux on Thinkpads.

>>12293848
:(

>>12293751
No matter the means, we also have to make sure it costs more than the ISS. And applaud the fact that it is "the most expensive project ever undertaken by humans"

>here's ur leading edge bro

>>12293901
What impact? I don't see any damage. There have been many impacts before, and none of them caused any issue.

>>12293854
>Every time humanity builds a new space station we just send the old stations further out in the Solar system.
With new nuclear reactors? Those rickety old 90s solar panels won't be worth shit at Mars, let alone Pluto.

>>12293601
lmao he's like nick fuentes

>>12293913
He buttfucks gay catboys?

>>12293917
probably

During ascent at approximately 80 seconds, photo analysis shows that some debris from the area of the -Y ET Bipod Attach Point came loose and subsequently impacted the orbiter left wing, in the area of transition from Chine to Main Wing, creating a shower of smaller particles. The impact appears to be totally on the lower surface and no particles are seen to traverse over the upper surface of the wing. Experts have reviewed the high speed photography and there is no concern for RCC or tile damage. We have seen this same phenomenon on several other flights and there is absolutely no concern for entry.[21]

Will Vulcan Heavy stand a chance?

>>12293931
It's got gay decals and engines made by the sniffing turtle. Never gonna make it.

>>12293931
It will probably be better than Delta IV, but it will still be behind the curve of Starship. What I don't get is why not just increase the number of BE-4's, since they're still much cheaper than Oldspace engines and make it the same height at Delta-IV which would give it much greater payload capabilities.

>>12293944
>why not just increase the number of BE-4's
They're fucking big, man. You can only fit so many per core before the core size has to increase and that changes the entire fucking rocket again.

>>12293931
Only if they perfect SMART reuse and get the tankage down to Starship costs. So no.

>>12293931
Vulcan nose cone angle looks fucking gross bros

>>12293949
It's only running two on a trimmed down thrust structure, it could easily fit four in. It's too fat, it looks like a KSP rocket built for .3g, it should be tall and slender and elegant like FH and D-IV.

>>12293962
They're not small, my boy.

reusable upper stages when bros?

>>12293967
When and if Starship succeeds.

>>12293965
Yes, but you could fit four of them within the thrust structure of Vulcan without overcrowding them. They can also deep throttle to 65% so you don't even need to gimbal them to perform the gravity turn.

>>12293971
Do you work for BO?

>>12293965
>>12293949
>>12293962
it's a bit strange that I can't find anything on the BE-4's weight.

>>12293978
You can't find anything on anything done by BO because they don't release jack shit.

>>12293978
That's probably due to Blue Origins patented tight lip on anything they do

>>12293977
Nope, I'm just saying that Vulcan would probably be a better rocket if it had four primary engines and a taller booster stage rather than a stubby booster stage and up to six Shit Rocket Boosters. Same for Vulcan Heavy if it's ever made, if they really are planning for it in the heavy configuration I don't see why they can't just elongate the booster stage tanks so they can have a greater payload, especially since by the time Vulcan Heavy exists it's probable that Starship will also be flying and ULA will be facing a competing heavy-lift, low cost, reusable rocket.

>>12293950
I always thought SMART was pretty cool. You get to reuse the most valuable part of the rocket while and retaining most of the rocket's payload capability. It's actually a superior approach when lifting very heavy payloads that wouldn't leave enough fuel for landing. Of course they wouldn't try anything new, though.

What do you guys think about this guy’s videos on this topic?

https://youtu.be/OXsXyZB7T5I

>>12293965
BIGPIPE

>>12293986
Yeah, but they're not going for a "better rocket". They're going for a "rocket that slides right into the slot of the rocket it replaces", namely the Atlas V.
ULA knows their game. They're in the business of selling launches to the US government for military payloads and shit like that. They don't need any fancy shit for that. They only need a reliable medium lifter and an occasional heavy lifter as well as a good kickstage for that.

>>12293993
High quality autism. Hard to find these days. 9/10

>>12293994
What the fuck are they piping into it? Crude? Jesus, I've done thinner pipes on oil rigs.

>>12293997
I guess it really is just "Atlas-V but bigger and Metha/LOX" but man that's so fucking boring, they should skip it and go straight to Vulcan Heavy, at least TRY to give Falcon Heavy a run for it's money in the "it's three core stages strapped together" category of rockets.

>>12294000
Liquid methane and liquid oxygen.

>>12294000
A lot of liquid methane, so you're not exactly wrong.

>>12294002
That is exactly what it is and exactly what they were going for. Vulcan heavy will only materialize if and when there is a need to lift anything they can't get up with a bajillion of strapon boosters and a big ass centaur. Not a millisecond before.

>>12294005
>>12294007
Well, duh. But seriously, that is some fucking fat pipe. 6" or something?

>>12294012
BE-4's chamber pressure is crappy compared to Raptor so they need much bigger pipes to move the propellant.

>>12294015
6" is like dropping it into the combustion chamber from a cement truck and hoping for the best.

>>12294012
>Well, duh. But seriously, that is some fucking fat pipe. 6" or something?
>>12294015
>BE-4's chamber pressure is crappy compared to Raptor so they need much bigger pipes to move the propellant.

Its also a higher thrust engine than Raptor, and the higher thrust variants of Raptor are going to use different (bigger) pumps and plumbing as well.

>>12294021
Higher thrust, higher weight. It's a big clunker.

>>12294022
>Higher thrust, higher weight. It's a big clunker.

Its not as ambitious an engine as Raptor. I can't fault them for having trouble with the pumps either, since SpaceX is a massive talent sponge.

>>12294021
It's TWR is comparatively awful though because of that low chamber pressure, it probably weighs more than twice as much as Raptor but only develops maybe 100,000lbf

>>12294027
100k lbf *more thrust.

>>12294026
You'd think one of the world's richest men would be able to soak up some talent to his secret volcano lair.

>>12294027
Everything looks like shit compared to Raptor. Raptor is an anomaly.

>>12294031
Honestly their extreme level of secrecy has probably repulsed a good bit of talent. People like their work to be popular and well known, and they probably don't want to be under whatever hellish NDA Blue is using to enforce such secrecy with their projects. Blue just isn't being as openly energetic about their project, no matter what progress they may or may not have made so far.

>>12294027
I feel disappointed about the BE-4. Earlier I liked it over the Raptor because I like "dumber" and "rugged" designs, and the BE-4 looked like that over the Raptor. I also thought that it would be ready earlier too.

>>12294031
Remember anon, step by step ferociously. Any day now they're gonna start their exponential growth and BTFO SpaceX

>>12294040
Well, the fact they're working on gay ass suborbitals is also less than glamorous. If I was a young man looking to make a name for himself in the aerospace industry, I sure as fuck wouldn't be aiming for the dudes firing off glorified sounding rockets every leap year.

>>12294044
Well it is "dumber" in terms of being mechanically simpler, and despite my Raptor hardon I'd have to assume it will be more durable simply because lower chamber pressure means lower mechanical stresses, so unless Raptor's combustion chamber and turbomachinery are made of some magic meme alloy, it will inevitably wear out faster.
The tradeoff is a massive loss of chamber pressure and thus TWR and I can't imagine is has a very good ISP at all with such a low chamber pressure, but we can't even tell because Blue posts no fucking information about it.

>>12294033
yeah, the BE-4 is a fine oldspace engine. The thing is that next to SpaceX's insanity everything look like shit

>>12294055
>Well it is "dumber" in terms of being mechanically simpler, and despite my Raptor hardon I'd have to assume it will be more durable simply because lower chamber pressure means lower mechanical stresses, so unless Raptor's combustion chamber and turbomachinery are made of some magic meme alloy, it will inevitably wear out faster.
That's why I liked the BE-4 over the Raptor. For a reusable space economy, you have to abandon the old spaceflight idea of chasing after every ounce of efficiency, and instead look into lifetime factors, but it seems like SpaceX did both. Although only time will tell how reusable and reliable the Raptor will be.

>>12294055
What the fuck does more durable matter when they're just dumping them in the drink? You know as well as I do that they're never going to bother with SMART. BO plays oldspace politics and so does ULA, Vulcan is going jobs program.

>>12294084
>What the fuck does more durable matter when they're just dumping them in the drink? You know as well as I do that they're never going to bother with SMART.
No shit they're not going to use SMART. They're going to land the boosters retropropulsivly.

>>12294084
Well, when you're firing 28 raptors simultaneously durability suddenly becomes a pretty pressing issue. I'd imagine with chamber pressures that high catastrophic failure states would be particularly explosive.

>>12294055
>unless Raptor's combustion chamber and turbomachinery are made of some magic meme alloy
IIRC they are, which is why nobody is building Raptor engine clones yet.

>>12294089
>New Paper Rocket
Nice fairing though. Gotta have something to show the photographers when they wonder you're lurking so ferociously.

>>12294091
Well the turbomachine blades are definitely some kind of carbon-carbon or a similar material, somewhat akin to the RD-180, but the combustion chamber and plumbing are still going to be constrained by the limits of conventional alloys.

>>12294094
>Nice fairing though. Gotta have something to show the photographers when they wonder you're lurking so ferociously.

They may be quiet, but they're not fucking around with their Cape facilities, that's for sure.

>>12294096
Turbines in raptor run cold normal inconel deals with it just fine

>>12294055
Even that isn't really true, FFSC is harder to solve but makes a much nicer turbopump environment relatively speaking and so the expected reliability of a mature engine should be higher (or maybe on par due to the performance delta)

>>12294091
Don't report me to Elon, but the alloy is
17% Chromium
1% Nickel
1% Manganese
1% Silicon
77% Iron
3% Elon's piss

>>12294040
This, the PR SpaceX does with webcast, etc. is probably more about their (future) employees than towards potential customers

>>12294089
>landing on a moving ship
I had completely forgotten about this, I know the movement is for hydrodynamic stability but the thing is manned. Testing this is going to be a bunch of fun 1,000 page long conversations with the FAA.

>>12294159
Watching them try it for the first time is going to be terrifying.

>>12294089
>Landing on a manned ship
Imagine the burst eardrums

>>12294159
>Testing this is going to be a bunch of fun 1,000 page long conversations with the FAA.
Also the Coast Guard.

>>12294159
>>12294178
holy shit, I'm just now comprehending what this is going to involve. I mean SpaceX had a bunch of their rockets crash on their droneship and explode before they got it right. BO is really going to attempt this with a far bigger rocket, on a boat with people on it? What the fuck? They had better put a bunker in that thing. Or some Battleship-tier armor or something. I can just imagine the booster detonating on the bridge

>>12294178
I might actually have drunk on that boat.

>>12294193
*gotten drunk

>>12294191
>BO is really going to attempt this with a far bigger rocket, on a boat with people on it?
That's only assuming New Glenn makes any progress in the next few years

>>12294191
Or it just starts it's decel burn too late and just punches straight through the hull leaving the ship with a 7m hole through all decks.

>>12294191
It'll be cool man, that boat might have been blessed by my vomit when it was serving as the Kiel ferry.

>>12294191
>Or some Battleship-tier armor or something
Iowa landing ship when?

>>12294193
>>12294196
are you sure you're not drunk now anon?

>>12294203
That would be the mullet of battleships.
>CANNONS IN THE FRONT
>ROCKETS IN THE BACK

>>12294204
No I'm actually dry today. It's 2:30am though.

>>12294206
based europoor
why no drinking on halloween night?

>>12294208
NSAIDs and alcohol mix poorly.

>>12294205
>Starship lands on the Iowa landing ship
>the 16 inch cannons fire in celebration of another happy landing

>>12294219
>>the 16 inch cannons fire in celebration of another happy landing
>they land on the ULA snipers, sinking their boats

https://youtu.be/kRO_07nEi8g

>>12293813
I hope I see space tourism mature in my lifetime. I don't even have to go myself I just want to see people have the time of their lives frolicking on the moon

>>12294199
>>12294202
come to think of it, do we know much about the specs of SpaceX's droneships? They clearly have to have some armor to take the punishment that they have. I don't think blue origin will seriously modify theirs ship..

>>12294202
small world

>>12294203
they'd finally have a reason to put them back into service. But yeah, way too skinny to actually work. Though I guess they could expand the deck like >>12294219

>>12294226
Boats in general are actually quite durable and Falcon 9 empty isn't particularly heavy compared to normal cargoes, the only thing I'd imagine which is different from say an aircraft carrier deck is that it must have some kind of composite heat resistant material for the deck to prevent it being melted through by rocket exhaust.

>>12294226
The droneships are wider, much wider and have a fuckload of stabilizers. They're retrofitted barges after all, not a retrofitted car ferry that was retrofitted as a freighter that is in the process of being retrofitted to land New Glenn on.

A boat is not a barge and New Glenn is a different beast from a Falcon 9.

https://directory.marinelink.com/ships/ship/marmac-300-13899

Here's what OCISLY was based on before it was modified.

>>12294234
Sorry, that's JRTI.

https://directory.marinelink.com/ships/ship/marmac-304-11674

This is what OCISLY was.

Yeah here's an actual image of a naked MARMAC-300, it really is essentially just a floating palate.

>>12294241
They added a good extra hunk of deck onto them.

>>12294243
Yep, widened and I have to assume thermally shielded, in fact I think you can actually see the rectangular seams in the deck where what I assume are extra layers of shielding have been applied.

>>12294245
That's just an extra thick slab laid on top I think. Those fuckers can take stacks and stacks of loaded containers, so a thick slab of carbon steel isn't even an issue.
Underneath, it's got shitloads of engines to stabilize.

>>12294231
>fuckload of stabilizers
>>12294249
>Underneath, it's got shitloads of engines to stabilize.
I was going to ask how a modified barge stays steady enough in the ocean, but I guess that's how. Also the fact that it doesn't go THAT far out.

>>12294231
>not a retrofitted car ferry that was retrofitted as a freighter that is in the process of being retrofitted to land New Glenn on.
when you put it like that it sounds like a real clusterfuck

speaking of ships here's a site that focuses entirely on SpaceX's maritime ships and their recovery efforts: https://spacexfleet.com/fleet

Happy Halloween /sfg/

>>12294283
Thanks!

>>12294286
Ah, yes, the SLS. The most terrifying thing of all.

>>12294286
>>12294304

>>12294286

>>12294286
あ!

>Lori Garver, former NASA Deputy Administrator, has called for canceling [SLS] alongside the Mars 2020 rover.
Is this bitch playing the wild card? What the fuck does she want NASA to do?

>>12294385
>Bolden stating that the "SLS will go away because at some point commercial entities are going to catch up". Bolden further stated "commercial entities are really going to build a heavy lift launch vehicle sort of like SLS that they will be able to fly for a much cheaper price than NASA can do SLS."
Dr. Frankenstein denouncing his monster lmao

>>12294385
>What the fuck does she want NASA to do?

Climate observation time wasting.

>>12294385
>>12294387
What the fuck. I completely support NASA pulling out of launch vehicles, but if these are the people saying it then I can't imagine anything good following.

>>12294313
Thank you Yotsuba

>>12294391
Erm our climate science division is vital for keeping this planet livable?

>>12294391
>>12294396
Shouldn't climate observation be handled by the National Weather Service?

>>12294399

>>12294396
Anyone who genuinely believes climate change is preventable or an existential threat is brainwashed.

>>12294413
This, I'd say it's more like a nonpreventable long, LONG term existential threat, assuming near zero biological adaptation or gene modification in the next several hundred to a thousand years. And it will likely be brought on by a geological event, like the eruption of a mega-volcano and subsequent release of enormous reserves of untapped GHG producing carbon compounds.
Basically an unstoppable volcanic event will light the mother of all farts and over the course of a few hundred thousand years it will shart the planet into being 90% uninhabitable.

>>12294391
I’m 100% serious too. She actually believes we should not do manned space exploration or even robotic space exploration and instead ogle Earth with some satellites to study climate change, learn nothing of substantial worth or interest, and “””save the planet””’. Misleading hyperbole seems to be appealing to women, possibly because they’re more emotional.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2019/07/20/lori-garver-forget-new/

>>12294420
>"NASA was not created to do something again."
Yet monitoring the Earth, something that has been done since Sputnik, doesn't count?

>>12294417
At worst, it’ll be like the Permian, when the climactic conditions of a supercontinent interacted with global warming to cause extreme desertification, and at best, it’ll be like the Jurassic, when earth was a tropical, balmy paradise with the highest biomass it’s ever had. The second is more likely, since supercontinents don’t exist anymore and won’t again for hundreds of millions of years.

Happy 90th Birthday to Michael Collins, first man to perform two EVAs.

Man, first we need Trump to win, then we need to hope Berger's wrong, in order to keep spaceflight policy in good hands. It's kinda depressing