/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12291792
no, it's proof that nature isn't fucking retarded

>>12291792
Nature stopped being about "nature" and science a long time ago - and is now just another institution that's been infiltrated by vile internationalists.

>>12291792
getting published stopped meaning anything a long time ago.

>>12291792
It's the proof that trump/gop is just a meme.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa make it stop

It might mean it's time for you to do some serious self reflection.

>>12291884
remember November

I only publish on arXiv

>>12291891
shocker

>>12291891
>not viXra
ngmi

>>12291888
888 cool haha thanks cbias for the soopy feel haha

Fr tho OK ill be patiant ._.

>>12291792
Even fox sport commentators are turning away from Trump. Ousting Trump precedes all principles.

>>12291888
OK when you say this what exactly.do you mean? Like will something good happen?

US can't control outbreaks

>>12291792
why would nature support a sitting president that doesn't even believe in science?

>>12291987
because only know-nothing fagots "believe in Science"

>>12292073
We believe in correct spelling too.

>scientific journal supporting the presidential candidate supporting science

I'm heckin speechless. How could something like this happen!?

>>12292092
how scientific are socialism and fracking-is-safe

>>12292107
retard

>>12291792
joe biden will make american great again

>>12291987
What is the red and green sides?

Science shouldn't be involved in politics.

Nature is tainted.

>be Trump
>read paper about research on applying the effect of disinfectants and UV light inside of humans
>not too literate, but understand the gist
>mention the research in speech
>is there... is there a way to you know, get it inside somehow
>people misunderstand this as HURRRR INIECT DISINFECTANTS TRUMP STOOPID
>but the science told me so

The point is Biden won't support science either

>>12292151
>>12292151
Thank you! It is not about who is right or wrong it about the separation of the institutions. We should avoid being involved in politics!

But I guess that is what we get when we get for saying "social sciences" are science.

This is gonna be embarrassing for nature when trump wins.

>>12292080
Well Mr Science-believer, since you believe in Science, do you believe in physics and sociology with equal faith?

>>12292154
>Be trump
>Read
Stopped 4ight there. That ornage fuck can barely read his name straight.

>>12291811
You know the first editions of nature had political pages right? Literally in the first two editions they talked about how 1. Science should be taught in schools and 2. Women should be allowed to learn science.

>>12292187
you believe it'll go away by April, like magic?

>>12292151
If anything, the decision was made for them.
The administration has at best a casual interest in science, so if you want a society that empirically grounds its decisions...

>>12292154
Didn't Trump say that was all a joke?

>>12291792
Why is science intervening in politics? Its so dishonest for science to condone a politician, now I understand why some people call it scientism

>>12292151
>>12292182
>majority of science funding comes from government sources
>science shouldn't be involved in politics
That's the most short-sighted thing I've ever heard. Science has been involved with politics ever since it left the cloisters of religion. And even when it was a religious pursuit it was still a part of religious politics.

>>12292295
Short sighted? Are you serious?

> Science has been involved with politics ever since it left the cloisters of religion

Great how about now we move to politics and I am sure that won't have any bad repercussions. Science denying has started appearing from both left and right, so I guess your suggestions is choose the lesser evil because "muh government funding".

And as far as I know none of them want to remove funding, so I guess your argument is that the areas you want to be funded possibly wont get funding. So you are just being a fucking hypocrite, because you wont get the "muh funding" and sit on your fucking ass research bullshit like most of the academia does this days.

Let me guess, you specialise in the great fucking area of social "science"?

>>12292319
>now we move to politics
The point is that areas of science have ALWAYS been involved in politics.
see:
>>12292259

>>12292154
It was an instance where Trump's approach of simplifying everything backfires on him. He knows the media is dishonest and that they're against him and he should have been better prepared.
>>12292277
There's nothing else he could say really

>>12292277
Yes, but he's a notorious liar.

>>12291792
It's proof editorials are written by people with agendas.

>>12292322
Fair enough man, but that doesn't mean we should try to actively move away from being involved with it wherever possible.

At least that was my hope.

>>12292333
In a perfect world we would. Personally I do, I don't want anything to do with politics and I avoid it at all times.
There will always need to be parts of science that work in politics though. Otherwise funding will get diverted to all the liberal arts degrees who make the most noise. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that.
Currently it's already hard to get new scientific ideas/discoveries through the valley of death and turn them into profitable companies but that's an area where the free market could play a big role (using bond packages see: Andrew Lo).

>>12292325
> Trump's approach of simplifying everything
Alternatively, that simple style is how he understands everything.

>>12292333
If you want a society that grounds its decisions in the firmest available scientific evidence, feigning neutrality does nothing to accomplish that.
With many of these fields (epidemiology being a highly relevant one recently) the goal is not to generate papers that will get shoved unread in a drawer, but to materially influence the wider societal approach to the topic under study, just as much materials science aims to convert its discoveries into real-world advances.

>>12292364
Yeah, it's wishful thinking to hope that science can exist in a vacuum and the rest of the world will just take the discoveries and make use of them then kick back the needed funding to make more.
Just think of how many concepts are known to be discovered by individual X only for it to be a minor note that actually Mr Y discovered it 68 years earlier but never published and his discovery was only discovered 4 years ago by an archivist going through his notes 200 years after the fact.

>>12292295
That's the most retarded attempt at reasoning I've ever read. Science being funded by the government doesn't mean it owes it in any way other than bringing science and technology themselves forward. We pay scientists to progress us independently from anything else around them. This independence is actually the very reason for government funds.
Btw I also think we should pay (real!) journalists government money so they can operate freely instead of having to produce clickbait to survive.

>implying Nature doesn't do this because they fear funding cuts
>implying the reason they do it is out of altruistic motives
>implying nature doesn't want to influence politics in a direction that favors paying them more
It sucks, but it's really all about money at this point.

>>12292370
> so they can operate freely instead of having to produce clickbait to survive.
But clickbait would still inherently be more viral than solid journalism, and so would still dominate most of the public's attention.

>current president ignored scientists or made pressure on them to support his retarded opinion
>why would scientists support his opponent?

It's either politics+science or religion.
Take your pick.

>>12292421
false dilemma

>>12291792
good job nature, you just tainted your reputation by telling people science believes x is a superior candidate. misusing science for personal purposes is despicable, there's a reason for 150 years no one has ever endorsed a candidate, now its ran by midwits who think science is an institution. god i fucking hate scientism

>>12292443
Agree with both your points. It's really disappointing.

>>12292443
>telling people science believes x is a superior candidate.
That's not what they said, if you would actually read the editorial.
It's more along the lines of
>Despite having vast scientific and monetary resources at his disposal, Trump failed catastrophically when it mattered most.
>This undermining of research advice has been accompanied by the systematic dismantling of scientific capacity in regulatory science agencies.

>>12291987
Ikr, I don't know why they would support trump either. Biden never told people to inject disinfectant.

>>12292295
why do you think the separation of church and state was considered so important? well "science" is now the church. who pays you, kike?

>>12291795
best bait

>>12291944
i thought this was task manager while using firefox

>>12292154
>be Trump
>read paper
No. There was a presentation given right before Trump spoke. During that presentation, disinfectants, which included bleach and alcohol, were discussed. Trump heard it, immediately stepped up to the podium thinking he had a great idea, and let the world know about it.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/

>ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus, specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids. And I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes; isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing — just spraying it on and letting it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva.

>THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.

Jesus fucking CHRIST what's wrong with the editors
Are they fucking blind? It's not even supporting science the guy has dementia, he already is unable to fulfill his role

>>12291792
Why would anybody who loves science support trump?

>>12292259
>Women should be allowed to learn science.
wtf I hate nature now

>>12292107
Democratic-Socialism is what all the concensus among economists to maximize the utility of society long term

>>12292107
>how scientific are socialism
socialism is an empirical immortal /sci/ence

>>12291891
How does it feel to have near-zero impact on science?

>>12292774
>nigga just fill the lungs with disinfectant and shake it around with the ventilator like BRBRBRBRBRRRRRRR then drain it back out again hahahahhahaha it's that simple you dumb ass science medical doctors

>>12292861
>science
if by science you mean industry bought stooges, then I wholeheartedly support that anon

Nature isn't supporting Biden, they're just supporting anyone-but-Trump, and that's just the only real choice. That's how first-past-the-post goes.

>>12292816
This shit is so annoying. Life is so much more complicated than buzzwords. Every decent society is on some spectrum between socialism and capitalism, it's just a matter of moving the dial back and forth a bit.

People who want to argue socialism vs. libertarianism/capitalism, in the absolutist sense you see it in most stupid online political bickering (not an actual policy debate), are so fucking retarded. Obviously most people agree total anarcho-capitalism or centrally-planned communism are bad. (They're probably overrepresented on 4chan, but they're still definitely the minority.) Why not discuss actual things instead

>>12292774
The defense of Trump here is that this is basically what he does 24/7. He wasn't literally saying "inject bleach into your lungs", he was just doing his typical bullshit salesman "we have this great thing and all of these great tremendous things". He doesn't know what'll come out of his mouth until he opens it most of the time. He's just shooting from the hip and making all of this shit up as he goes along.

So, he's obviously retarded and ignorant, and it isn't really a defense, but he's pretty much just retarded in the same way he always has been. He didn't suddenly go literal schizophrenia mode. When he later clarified his remarks as "joking", what he really meant was "I was just talking", in the sense of any NYC real estate tycoon "talking". You're not supposed to glean any actual information from it, it's just a way to build rapport and charisma (with some percentage of people)

>>12292876
What are you on about, DemSoc is an actual and specific model/ideology

>>12292891
>he was just doing his typical bullshit salesman "we have this great thing and all of these great tremendous things". He doesn't know what'll come out of his mouth until he opens it most of the time. He's just shooting from the hip and making all of this shit up as he goes along.
problem is he's the executive leader of the global economic and military superpower

>>12292876
Nobody here has any background of formal economics study, there’s no point. Democratic-socialism says my point much better than saying “somewhere between capitalism and communism”

Even the communists of ye olden days recognized that true communism Is hard to have before your country is developed (central planning is not inheritedly communist, it was a means to an end of rapid progress to catch up)

>>12292891
Yeah, I actually agree with you completely.

>>12291792
based boomers

>>12291987
science isn't a fucking religion you "believe in"

>>12291792
thank god. Now we can go back to the status quo of start a bunch of unnecessary wars.

>>12292904
"democratic socialism" IS communism. read mein kampf

>>12292816
No - it's not democratic socialism.
If anything it's social democracy.

>>12292913
probably a lot more niggers in the young demographic and sanders is too complicated for them

How much scientist dogmatists have fallen...
Can't you be like chad Einstein - who literally wrote letters to politicians suggesting them policies and was active in proselytizing his favorite political ideology? He wrote on Socialism, urged for Socialism talked about Socialism until his end of life.

>>12292861
ArXiv is highly useful for putting up manuscripts pre-official publication.
>>12292921
Iran literally fired ballistic missiles at bases containing US troops.
The South China Sea area has never been closer to war.

>>12291792
Wow, I Fucking Love Science™ now!

>>12292774
That doesn't explain the UV light comment. No. There was an article about both these topics and either him or some advisor read it and he failed to reproduce the exact message.

>>12292916
"Belief" isn't the same as "faith." A belief is simply an assertion that something is or is not true. All knowledge is belief by definition.

>>12293028
>>12293131
I’m retarded I mixed up the two terms and meant social democracy

Pure capitalism and pure communism are both terrible if you want to maximize the utility of society because of inherit and emergent inefficiencies of both.

>>12293287
No, UV was also covered in the presentation. I provided the link to the transcript. Everything Trump said was based on what he'd listened to in the 5 minutes prior.

>>12292837
Socialism is pseudo-science. Cope more commie faggot.

>>12292816

> Listening to economists

>>12293415

> Clearly expanding the welfare state, ballooning africa's population through foreign aid, and an economy that depends on endless growth and consumption is whats best for our environment
> It's scientific facts bros trust me!

Faggot

>>12293602
>>>/x/
>>>/reddit/

>>12293583
Should I listen to people with no experience in economics for insight in economics?

>>12291792
so nature endorses crack head pedophiles guilty of treason for president. I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE GUISE AM I RIGHT. What a fucking joke our institutions have become

>>12293495
Okay, then the presentation covered the ongoing research to get the function of disinfectants and UV light into our bodies.

>>12292901
good thing is that what he babbles about in some speech or twitter tirade doesn't actually translate into law

90% of of the outrage at him is lefties taking social media posts seriously and screeching mindlessly

>>12293610

You shouldn't listen to economists about much of anything. You shouldn't use muh consensus of economists when it comes to a scientific discussion. Pure redditry.

>>12292816
Utility is subjective. For example, having to be around minorities might decrease your utility to 0 if you are racist. In that case, democratic socialism would not maximize your utility. Or if you don't want women to be degenerate roasties, which they would be under that system. All democratic socialism is good for is maximizing consoooomption

>>12291792
No, trump is just retarded and so biden is the obvious choice for anyone who still has a brain

>>12293261
If you want to stop China from invading countries in SEA, all you need to do is give those countries nukes. Give Taiwan nukes. Then you don't need to spend shit tons of money maintaining chairforce bases and navy patrols there.

>inb4 "not the iq meme again"

>>12293610
Name one recession that a consensus of economists have successfully predicted the timing and cause of and I will gladly let you enact your technocratic wet dream.

>>12293610
economics is a toxic, anti-science cult-like pseudo religion that is pushes greed, consumerism, excess, and degeneracy and will lead humanity's premature extinction.

>>12293666
true as fuck

>>12293610
economics are experienced in advocating for the necessity of the technocracy which trained them. they do not have any insight at all outside of the system they were groomed to defend

>>12293672
Source?

>>12293666
Might unironically happen under Trump. He's doubled military trade with Taiwan and has sold them some pretty killer kit already. Nukes are a part of a large military system though. Just having a few missiles isn't a true threat.

(((Nature))) just volunteered to be first in the ovens

where the fuck does this meme that trump is for imaginary anti science loons come from
>joe biden's trust in democracy
>still implying trump is a facist 4 years later
politics is such cancer

>>12292182
>But I guess that is what we get when we get for saying "social sciences" are science.
That was a self-appointed title. Nobody in STEM went about saying "ah yes, this group of anthropologists, historians and other undesirables, they are our equals".

>>12293940
every heard the term natural sciences? those disciplines are objectively science.

>>12293955
to clarify: i'm pointing out that the disciplines usually considered "real" science are natural sciences. social sciences have been around as long as natural scienes and they have all been science.

>>12291792
Science is literally white supremacy and patriarchy. The ideas that there's objective truth, that we should respect facts and logic, that people should be free to think and communicate, that authority only comes from the merit of his work, are only ideas of extreme right wingers.

>>12293959
It's not the subject of the study. It's the circle of people of the study. I have actually spent some time reading the actual texts of some social scicence studies touted on newspapers. And I have to say they deserve nothing short of summary execution, along with anyone allowing the publication of these utter horseshits.

>>12293615
His son's the "crack head pedophile guilty of treason".

it is the jeudo christians atheists who politicize absolutely EVERYTHING, because it is literally their religions where they feel good about themselves by letting the plebs in the know of politics.
They hated it when the priests had their say in their affairs, like marriages, and in politics and so they swapped god with the republic. And to feel righteous they told the plebs they could vote, as if it was meaningful and the plebs could become bourgeois like them.
And of course when the plebs is talking it is about hedonism with delusion of altruism from time to time, in order to not feel selfish. This is why today you have sex talks in fields with no links to sex. Because you let women talk and comment and because the bourgeois let the plebs contemn.

>>12293955
>every heard the term natural sciences? those disciplines are objectively science.
Yes this marxists polluting academia.
(HEGEL and) Marx wanted to pass as a scientific be due to the masses being in praise of the scientific. So Marx said he was a materialist and said hisotry is materialistic.
Marx tried to so hard to larp that he even put high school maths his books, and made mistakes, but since the masses were not educated, just like today, they all viewed him as legit.
This from those people that you get ''history is a science'', ''economy is a science'', ''psychology is a science'' and so on. All those non-Stem crappy fields pushed by liberals as a science.


Then 150 years later, all the morons who idolize science and maths from popsci videos on YouTube still praise him.

So I have a question: are you one of them?

>>12293672
>womp womp

"The study identified the participants across a spectrum ranging from strongly Republican to strongly Democrat with Independents in the middle. It also measured a subgroup comprised entirely of white participants to eliminate the factor of race. The results showed that Republicans had a higher IQ score than Democrats.

The study used four measurements to determine the cognitive abilities of the participants. The first was a ten word vocabulary test to measure the verbal intelligence. A test of probability knowledge, and verbal reasoning was also used. Lastly, the test givers asked each participant of the tests how well they understood the questions.

The result was that those who identified themselves as conservative Republicans scored higher on the test, indicating a higher intelligence over liberal Democrats.

Noah Carl reasoned that Conservatives did better on the test partly in part due to their socio-economical positions in society. Those that have better socio- economical positions in society tend to identify themselves as Republicans.

These findings were consistent with a previous study that Carl did entitled, “Verbal Intelligence is Correlated with Socially and Economically Liberal Beliefs.” In that study, those who voted as Republicans had a slightly higher verbal intelligence than their counterparts on the other side of the aisle.

Carl did note a difference in two types of Republicans. A socially conservative Republican (pro- life, anti- gay marriage, pro- gun rights) scored lower on the test than the classically liberal Republican (pro- small government, maximum personal freedom, and maximum personal responsibility). However, the two Republican groups combined still scored higher than the liberal Democrat."

Cognitive ability and party identity in the United States
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289614001081

https://www.quora.com/Who-has-a-higher-IQ-an-average-Republican-or-an-average-Democrat

>>12294558

most democrat voters come off as mentally unstable or empty headed SSRI taking zombies.

>>12291792
I believe the science and have faith in our doctors.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/mAl6ulsD8Kti/

>>12291792
I'm more pissed off at the clickbait format of "Why x" instead of just telling outright what you believe in.

>>12291792

i dont know why im on sci, probably wanted to find something that was innovative, but fuck these people, im tired of everything being politicized, tired of them all. i put them in the same category as netflix with their bullshit, stay the fuck away from politics, all you are doing is throwing more fuel on teh fire, nature is not 1 person or do you all have the same brain?

>>12294595
Tienanmen Trump can take his Chinese bank account and shove it.

>>12294771

just more proof this is the type of shit im seeing popping up under nature and politics now

>Science and politics are inseparable — and Nature will be publishing ... which has taken more than one million lives so far, has propelled the ...

again, the facts should speak for itself, no need to stick your nose into politics you fucking pieces of shits.

again

>Tired of science being ignored? Get political - Naturewww.nature.com world view
A minority of researchers are working with activists on racial justice, but many avoid doing so out of worry that an 'activist' label could have negative implications ...

again

from 2019, now a contradiction

>Scientists must rise above politics — and restate their ... - Naturewww.nature.com editorials
Aug 7, 2019 — “People in this country have had enough of experts,” Gove said in 2016, ... be the ability of international researchers to stand apart from political ...

I hate these people.

>>12294779

This is why it is so important Trump wins just to send them a message. I don't like Trump, think he's a moron, but what the other side is trying to pull here is even worse. They use politics as a bludgeon with their identity politics bullshit, they deserve to lose.

>>12291792
At the very least they are retarded for picking the losing side.
Their endorsement isn't going to change anyone's mind and it just alienates scientists even more from Trump's administration in his second term.

>>12291792
Joe Biden cares or at least claims to care for climate change more than Trump.
It makes sense.

>>12294777

>bwhawawawa
>trump is too anti-chinese
>trump is too pro-chinese

>>12294841

liberals find nature scary
conservative find strangers scary

>>12294849
Paying them $200,000 in taxes speaks for itself.

>>12294855

most major US corporations pay tax to china

>>12294876
Didn't vote for them either.

>>12291811
Cool it with the antisemitism

>>12292861
>NNNNNOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST OPT OUT OF THE HECKING PARASITIC PUBLISHING INDUSTRY. NOT THE GOOD BOI EXECUTIVES YOU'RE DOING THE PROFIT TAKERS A FRIGHTEN

>>12291792
I guess we can now stop pretending that these institutions are apolitical and trustworthy, as they can't be trusted because of their inherent bias and political agenda.

Nature has lost all credibility and legitimacy with this. I will automatically disregard any research that comes from them from now on.

>>12292861
I don't even publish my findings. It's so plessurable to see retards try and fail to discover what I already have found. It's like they are some sort of inferior beings whose minds are clouded and can't see clearly how to solve it. I bet that's also why Newton was initially not publishing anything...

>>12294855
Uh, yeah, he has businesses that operate in China. The Chinese government makes damn sure they get a pound of flesh from any who do business in their country, especially if they're not ethnically Chinese.

>>12293672
>monarchists way out to the right of the graph at 120iq average

>>12294501
>This from those people that you get ''history is a science'', ''economy is a science'', ''psychology is a science'' and so on
You forgot the most notable one that they like to espouse in real life: "socialism is a science". And they do so enough for even other socialists to cringe at the phrase.


>>12294854
>liberals find nature scary
And this part is interesting in that they like to espouse how great nature is and how it needs protecting while they at the same time live in some metropolitan shithole in San Francisco. As it seems from their actions, nature is nice but living in an insect mound is far superior.

>>12291792

Publishing has become a game anyway. It has nothing to do with original research anymore. You just try to associate whatever you do with what interests the public and hope you get through with enough bullshit.

>>12295366
Well that's what happens when science publications aren't state-funded and are forced to commercialize and sell out

>>12292592
>That's not what they said, if you would actually read the editorial.
>It's more along the lines of
>>science believes Joe Biden a superior candidate
Wow, you are right, they aren't saying that science believes Joe Biden is a superior candidate at all. They are only saying that science believes Joe Biden is a superior candidate. Good thing I actually read the editorial!

>>12292876
>>12292876
>Nature isn't supporting Biden, they're just supporting anyone-but-Trump, and that's just the only real choice. That's how first-past-the-post goes.
If they were supporting anyone-but-Trump, they would promote third party candidates. Instead the editorial *clearly* states that they support Joe Biden and that he is the only choice.

Science basically stopped to develop ~50 years ago.

>>12291792
Is about what makes the most money and keeps you in a position of authority, not about what is true or not.

>>12291910
I guess he means this guy and what he attempted to do:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

>>12295438
>he said, on his computer connected to the internet

>>12295411
They're saying that Trump mostly ignores the US scientific establishment, and degrades and demoralizes it when he isn't ignoring it.
With the pandemic specifically, the US has the world's largest and best-funded biomedical establishment, but one wouldn't know it looking at policy responses or case numbers.
That doesn't convert into "science believes Joe Biden is the better candidate."

>>12295429
>that's how first past the post goes
Learn to read.
Supporting third party candidates would only split the non-Trump vote, making a Trump victory more likely.
Strategic voting like that is a direct consequence of how the US electoral system is designed.

>>12293672
That doesn't align with the fact that blacks, mexicans, and women, have low iqs
>women have the same iq distribution as man
you are brainwashed. the two groups are curved separately. it's like saying US's womans soccer is better than mans soccer. which is true in a sense, false in every common sense.

>>12294787
Trump is a moron because he is unable to articulate his position. But people do understand where he stands. The other side is pure evil. And also couldn't articulate their shit.

>>12294837
As if scientists have any good feelings about these monopoly journals.

>>12294854
Liberals find their own country man scary. They'd rather invite a Muslim man from Africa into their living room than talking to a white Christian from Dallas on internet. Imagine the level of mental illness. Don't forget to dilate.

>>12294855
On the other hand, Bidens TAKE money from China. There's no contest who you should vote for if you hate the Chineses.

>>12295372
More and more money are coming from China. That's why they cannot afford to not appease China. Same thing with Hollywood, NBA.

>>12295429
Next on Nature - Why incest is a better form of love. Some say incest is not natural. Here's a body of evidences that incest occur in nature. In particular, uncle - niece - turned step daughter - intercourse creates the best evolution result.

>>12295706
It's a balance between risk and benefit. Scientists are in no position to dictate that balance. And they aren't doing it either. Joe Biden is just talking out of his ass.

>>12291792
The fact that science is corrupted to the core doesn't make science a meme. No wonder government-controlled-science supports one of the government career-politicians.
Science is based. Academia is biased.

>>12295744
But they are in a position to go public when they're getting flat out ignored, and when the administration is actively trying to weaken their institutions.
There's no sign of risk-benefit calculations happening with Trump's administration.

>>12295725
Nature is downstream of the publishers and of the grant-providers, which is where the biggest problems in terms of distortion are at.

>>12295731
>I strongly urge American people to reelect Trump because his team has many crazy members like Pompeo. They help China strengthen solidarity and cohesion in a special way. It’s crucial to China’s rise. As a CPC member, I thank them. - Hu Xijin, Global Times Editor

>>12293400
>All knowledge is belief by definition.
I believe you are a faggot.

>>12295504
Ah, you believe that moon landings were faked too?

>>12291792
Why would they support Trump?
At any rate, American politics are beyond repair. You guys need to start importing guillotines.

>>12294558
Then why is government bigger than it has ever been, guns banned in many states and gay marriage legal?
If they were so high IQ, they wouldn't be losing for 70+ years.
There must be something wrong with this paper.

Why can't you americans not stfu about politics? Can't you see that this only further encourages the politicizatio of every aspect of your daily lifes?

>>12291792
Joe Biden is the most overtly neoliberal choice, so of course "scientists" will support him.

>>12298110
When you have to cite arabs and chinks in your work every two minutes its hard to be a religious racist christcuck

>>12291792
>Nature publicly supports Joe Biden now.
So do Science and the New England Journal of Medicine. It's proof that the scientific community has had enough of this bullshit anti-science rhetoric coming from Trump.

>>12294777
>Trump is Putin's puppet! He's going to start WW3 we can't let him have the nuclear codes!

>>12298866
>OMB because he didn't tell americans to panic

>academics
>artists
>businesses
>aristocrats
>poor people
>lgbt people

All of them and more are united against trump. Speaks volumes about how dangerous he is.

>>12291792

Science != people who do science

the scientific method, when correctly applied, is apolitical,you can't blame the tool, only the operator.

>>12292073
Holy cope

In my opinion, this editorial >>12298866 is way better than >>12291792.
Nature just orders people to vote against Trump, while Science just exposes Trumps lies.
When you're a science focused organization, it's not your job to explicitly tell people who to vote for, but you can still influence the political process by posting facts.

>>12299081
science shouldn't be a belief system

>>12292107
>socialism

>>12299050
Merkel didn't tell people to panic, and there was no panic. But at the same time there was an actual policy in place and extremely good public communication about the reality of the situation. You're parroting retarded GOP talking points.

>>12299087
>democrat policies aren't socialist
>acktually roads and public libraries are socialism

>>12299100
Well I was being hyperbolic, but I honestly see no problem in telling people to have an optimistic outlook, nor do I see a problem with Trump leaving things up to the states instead of total centralized control

>>12298866
This editorial is very well written and says exactly what it needs to

>>12299106
>I honestly see no problem in telling people to have an optimistic outlook
Then you've clearly missed the point, because telling people to be optimistic is not the same as repeatedly and deliberately spouting flat out lies. These lies are highlighted in the editorial by Science.

>Trump leaving things up to the states
Don't be disingenuous, if he would leave it up to others then he wouldn't be constantly criticizing states and governors that implement actual policy to curb the pandemic. He's washing his hands so that he can blame others, as usual.

It's time for MAGA science. If it wasn't for Trump we would've never gotten through this pandemic. Hydroxychloroquine, injecting disinfectant and not wearing lung damaging masks all saved us.

The greatest man in the history of America and possibly the world.

>>12299131
I don't mean to "no u" but it genuinely sounds like you're giving talking points here (deliberately spouting them, as it were)
And no, one can easily criticize states and governors while still letting them do what they want. As far as I know, the federal government has not taken any actions preventing states from enforcing any measures. Am I wrong?

>>12299140
>the federal government has not taken any actions
>Am I wrong?
No the above sounds factually correct to me.

>I don't mean to "no u"
Then why do exactly that? You're ignoring the argument that is central to the editorial by Science that is up for discussion here, and arguing against points no one ever made. Not me, not the editor of Science.

>>12291792
dont care
still voting trump

>>12299135
>Hydroxychloroquine
kinda funny how it just went ignored that he never actually took it when he was infected himself

>>12299164
Well I do exactly that because, as I said, you genuinely sounded like you're repeating talking points. What points am I arguing against that nobody made?

>>12299168
is this known?

>>12299174
>you genuinely sounded like you're repeating talking points.
Perhaps it's because I'm reiterating the points articulated in the editorial by Science. Did you read it?

>What points am I arguing against that nobody made?
Equivocating optimism with deliberately lying. State policy versus federal policy.

>>12299180
yup, the medical team were explicit about what treatments he received

>>12299135
To add to this, science should help prove Trump right. When he says something science should not be used to disprove him but to make his statements more accurate. If a forecast model shows something contradicting Trump's statements scientists should be there with a sharpie to make things right.

>>12291792
it is an american journal, right?

>>12299229
It's American-German, with headquarters in London (global), Berlin (corporate), and New York (sales). It's also the worlds foremost scientific journal if you go by Google Scholar citation metrics.

>>12299135
Exactly
I injected disinfectant in my grandparents, and they didn't die of corona

>>12291792
serious question, since scientists and so on rely on government investments and grants to survive and do what they are supposed to do, why wouldn't they publicly support a particular candidate, or a particular law?

>>12292073
What's more entertaining is the fact that plenty of supposedly rational people I know went full retard and treat covid as a scam. Some of them are 'science fans'

>>12295719
Kek says the guy who never heard a speech from Biden

>>12299306
Let us assume the scientific institution endorses one candidate and that candidate looses.

Will that bring more funding or do you think that will piss off a lot of people and will give an excuse to the newly elected candidate to diminish the reliability of those institutions (rightly or wrongly)? Maybe some funding cuts, budget re-allocation or tax increase?

Maybe it would be better for the science to just say which actions are better to do and leave it at that, backed (hopefully) with sources and COUNTER OPINIONS.

>inb4 "Well they say who is the better candidate. Isn't that good?"

If that is what you got from my explanation, kys faggot.

Debate this:
Coronavirus has exposed the biomedical field, anons. It turns out that the all-powerful progress results in
> contradicting ideas, contradicting articles, guidelines changing a couple of times within few months
> lack of viable prediction; it's all about maybe, maybe not; almost 50-50 in some cases, might have tossed a coin equally well
> lack of ability to predict if a drug works; throwing it at patients and hoping it will work, if it doesn't then oh well; results are inconclusive or the reflect the first point
> army of virologiest and microbiologists who can't fucking get things right
> retards in the academia who call it a conspiracy

seriously, I grew up as a passionate of science, a freaking adamant atheist, but the longer I live, the more I know, my faith in humanity gets weaker and weaker while the scientists get more arrogant.
pathetic, zero humility.

>>12299441
>Coronavirus has exposed the biomedical field
If anything it has exposed your clear lack of knowledge about how science functions.

>>12299457
>If anything it has exposed your clear lack of knowledge about how science functions.
Or how it doesn't

>>12291792
Science was never a meme. SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!! was always a meme.

>>12299457
Judging by the coronavirus debacle, it does not function at all.

>>12299472
Scientists are not clairvoyant, and predictions by definition are probabilistic in nature. The margin of uncertainty associated with predictions was obviously larger in the early stages of the pandemic when very little was known about the virus. The more we learn, the more accurately we can predict.

The process is doing what it's supposed to. We'll have a vaccine by next year, in record time I might add, no thanks to you.

>>12299498
You're mixing up government and science. Governments set policy. Not scientists.

>>12299498
>>12299472
kek, are you retarded or something? we saw this shit coming, and politicians did absolutely nothing

just like fucking climate change. are you going to blame scientists too when we'll have to pay through the nose to combat its effects?

>>12299525
One politician saw it coming.

>>12292370
>Btw I also think we should pay (real!) journalists government money so they can operate freely instead of having to produce clickbait to survive.
Don't we do that with NPR?
They still push clickbait partisan bullshit.

>>12299501
>We'll have a vaccine by next year, in record time I might add
That surely makes it safe to use.

>>12299457
arrogant

>>12299185
When did I equivocate state policy versus federal policy? I said I liked that Trump left it up to the states, and anon said "no he didn't because orange twitter bad", even though his government never interfered with any of them

>>12299625
sue me retard

>>12299585
nice bait

>>12291944
Imagine believing half of the shit from the countries on that list. Get the dick out of your throat, bud.

>>12292916
Tell me more about how you know what science is and isn't.

>>12299629
>equivocate state policy versus federal policy?
You didn't, and I never said you did. The point is that the state vs federal policy argument is irrelevant to the discussion altogether because it does not negate anything said in the Science editorial, which you are again ignoring.

>>12299667
How about you explain what "believe in science" means

>>12299670
>nooo that's irrelevant! our conversation needs to go down this preset path or you're DERAILING IT!!
I was responding to the comment "Don't be disingenuous, if he would leave it up to others then he wouldn't be constantly criticizing states and governors that implement actual policy to curb the pandemic."

>>12299684
>was responding to the comment
Which in itself was a reply to a post where you brought up this irrelevant point. Stop evading the point and address the Science editorial. Or don't, and make your own case in a comment that doesn't jump into a discussion about something else.

>>12299760
Tell me what you consider Trump's most egregious lies about Science.

>>12299768
Not him but pic

>>12299785
what's the lie?

>>12299768
I wouldn’t say he’s producing lies-rather, like most people on this board, he’s too retarded to understand science sufficiently enough to apply it in everyday decisions.

>>12299789
Anon wanted me to address the Science editorial which explicitly says "Trump lied about science" multiple times

>>12299792
Did you only read the headline?

>>12299798
No, did you?

>>12299803
So you're illiterate?

>>12299809
are you saying the article itself never says "trump lied about science"?

>>12299768
Read the Science editorial. It's clearly laid out. As I've told you multiple times. Either do that or I'm done with this conversation.

>>12299829
k I've read it, now answer my question, because none of the "lies" that the editorial talks about seem bad to me

>>12299835
>k I've read it,
Better late then never asshole. Thanks for confirming you're arguing in bad faith. We're done here.

>>12299861
Seriously though which of Trump's Lies About Science steams your hams the most?

>>12299541
Is this real?

>>12299503
>You're mixing up government and science. Governments set policy. Not scientists.
wrong
governments set the policy mostly based on some opinions. pretty much turns out perhaps 5% of scientists within the field got it all right

>>12299501
>Scientists are not clairvoyant, and predictions by definition are probabilistic in nature. The margin of uncertainty associated with predictions was obviously larger in the early stages of the pandemic when very little was known about the virus. The more we learn, the more accurately we can predict.
>The process is doing what it's supposed to. We'll have a vaccine by next year, in record time I might add, no thanks to you.
dude
you sound like we should treat the fields of virology and microbiology as a meme
> study viruses/bacteria/cells for over 80 years now
> 'yeah but it doesn't mean we know anything, bro'

>>12299435
so it's just a practical reason then? that if they do, it might backfire on them. i thought maybe there was a more deeper reasoning like there is with neutrality in journalism

>>12299874
Yes. They even left a pandemic playbook made after H1N1 and Ebola, which was ignored by the Trump admin.
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

>>12299899
>you sound like we should treat the fields of virology and microbiology as a meme
No you retard, I'm not saying that at all.

>>12299893
>pretty much turns out perhaps 5% of scientists within the field got it all right
who and how did they "get it right"?

>>12299903
Thanks for the link anon

Most rank and file scientists are fairly apolitical and more interested in their work, even if most lean left, it's merely a product of their environment. That environment is owned by a smaller group of aggressively political people (today) who make statements like this.

>>12299929
>aggressively political people
Please.

>>12299907
>No you retard, I'm not saying that at all.
that's exactly what you are saying but you are in denial. all that studies of different viruses, all that studies at all, and a semi-novel cousin of SARS virus pops up and not one fucking knows what it does and what to do.
all the know is that 'more or less' it's 'this or that' and it 'does or doesn't' do things.
science value is in its ability to predict things. what covid handling did was a shitfest of contradicting models, methods of treatment and opinions.

>>12291811
Science is inherently internationalist.

>>12299908
>who and how did they "get it right"?
get it right as in get it right and predict things with decent accuracy, such as covid's inner workings, treatment, epidemic numbers, etc.

>>12299903

>twatter
>Creepy Joe
>WAPO

Ah yes, the paragons of peer reviewed journals and scientific methodology, with no agenda.

>>12299945
well that was vague

>>12299942
>that's exactly what you are saying
Speak for yourself you goddamn mongol, and don't put words in my mouth. Especially not if you're too fucking stupid to understand a very simple point.

>>12299948
>peer reviewed journal
A journal is not peer reviewed, an article is peer reviewed. You can fuck right off to your containment board.

>>12299952
those cases are an example of what I mean as the accuracy, not what is and what is not:

> statement: remdesivir works
> actually: it doesn't
that's a simple example of bad accuracy

>ibuprofen helps people with covid
> actually: it does
that's a good and accurate statement

>You can fuck right off to your containment board.

>>12299963
We go with what the evidence is saying until new evidence arrives. That's how it works dumbass.

>>12299956
>Speak for yourself you goddamn mongol, and don't put words in my mouth. Especially not if you're too fucking stupid to understand a very simple point.
> he's actually trying to use the 'quantum' card of probabilistic nature of the experiments
kek
seems you are the mongol.
again, science means finds the rules governing the world, which allow us to predict things.
your 'science' is basically throwing ten different hypothesis and hoping for the best - perhaps one of them is correct. good luck with solving any real world problems - like covid - with this approach

>>12299944

Pfff, only for hard sciences which have no hidden agenda, unlike other """sciences""" *cough* humanities *cough*

>>12299969
>We go with what the evidence is saying until new evidence arrives. That's how it works dumbass.
top kek
what you imply is that present knowledge means nothing. you just toss a coin, pick a random hypothesis, go with it, until the the evidence proves it wrong.
that's how retards learn about the world, anon. they have no ability to foresee what can happen, so they do mindless things and if it hurts, they stop doing them.

>>12299972
Fucking hell I'm running out of ways to call you stupid. Just kys already, because you've completely failed to get the point again.

>>12299962
Oops, my bad. Sorry onions boy, didn't mean to make you soil yourself.

>>12299964
kek

>>12299984
>Fucking hell I'm running out of ways to call you stupid. Just kys already, because you've completely failed to get the point again.

>>12299989
kek, since when they censor (((Onions)))

>>12299983
This fucking board is a joke.

>>12299989
Since when they censor S_o_y

>>12299999
>This fucking board is a joke.
checked and, indeed, /sci/ fags are mostly a joke

>>12299983
>what you imply is that present knowledge means nothing.
Kek, I haven't implied that you dumbass. It's simply a fact that with frequentist statistics you can perform an experiment flawlessly, but due to the finite nature of data you can arrive at the wrong answer to your question. It is the reason that no experiment gives an unequivocal answer, and can always be refuted should new evidence arise to do so. That absolutely does not mean that any and all findings are useless, that's a comically simplistic misconception on your part. It only implies that the longer a hypothesis stands unrefuted, the more credible it becomes. In the case of the current pandemic, little evidence was around to start with because Corona virology was a relatively obscure and underfunded field. It obviously no longer is, and we've learned a lot about this virus in a short period of time.

>>12299944
No, science is inherently individualist

Why do /pol/fags visit this board so often? Do they want to feel smart?

>>12300004
Welcome newfiend, you must have just arrived from /pol/. Would you like an introduction on how to use the board's LaTeX support functions, or an explanation on sci-hub?

>>12300021
Probably payed shills, and I'm not even joking.

>>12300014
>That absolutely does not mean that any and all findings are useless,
it unironically does mean that in many cases, especially when you don't meet enough sigmas to make the result credible and basically doesn't provide a working solution (it may fail as you stated). we all know that in case of a disease, there will always be a problem since you need a lot of people to get sick.
> In the case of the current pandemic, little evidence was around to start with because Corona virology was a relatively obscure and underfunded field.
yeah, but think about how many other fields are like that; other fields with a potential deadly threat looming around
I heard from a friend educated in a medical field(not a meme) that all you can really do is take vit. C and D, zinc, improve your immune system and hope for the best kek

>>12300024
what organization?

>>12300029
The Trump campaign.

>>12300029
>what organization?
Ridin-with-Biden, anon

>>12300034
What makes you think they pay shills? Like people on the left like to say, "sounds great, where do I sign up?", to which you can direct them to places like
>http://mainstreet.one
so where's the similar link for the Trump campaign?

>>12300027
>it unironically does mean that
No, it unironically does not mean that. Look, we can keep jerking each other off here but you're clearly not following, so I'm going to leave it at that.

>>12300041
If you're asking that question out of genuine interest, then you should really read this article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-2020-disinformation-war/605530/

Hmm, I wonder why would a science journal be against a president who has on multiple occasions be hostile towards science

>>12300022
Yes, please.

>>12292277
>I was merely pretending to be retarded

>>12300045
This is an interesting article, although it's clearly biased and doesn't really answer my question beyond "Parscale Media"
Do you think there are any democrat groups which shill on 4chan?

>>12300042
>No, it unironically does not mean that. Look, we can keep jerking each other off here but you're clearly not following, so I'm going to leave it at that.
you do realize at least that the chance of making the wrong conclusion means a chance of making the wrong solution to a problem, right?
let's use the drug testing as an example. you make a trial, but the trial gets only few cases since it's desirable people don't get sick. you arrive to a conclusion that 70% cases went better than the other 30%. yet, it turns out that when the drug hits the market, it's pretty much 50-50, hence it doesn't have any effect. now, it's obviously simplified by a bit, but it does have a point and it does address the whole 'until evidence proves otherwise'.
you can't deny it

>>12300068
[math] \bf{kys} [/math]

>>12300074
Jesus christ you're retarded

>>12300082
this is how science is performed in 2020

>>12300078
Home, sweet home

>>12300082
>Jesus christ you're retarded
>he silently pretends this scenario hasn't happened during the pandemic
truly, a faggot

>>12300068
[math] \underline{\bf{GO~BACK~TO}} [/math] >>>/pol/

>>12300094
I'm not pretending anything, I've simply realized that arguing with your is pointless because you're spouting things that aren't logically (or even grammatically) correct. I come to 4chan to waste my time, but your posts read like they're not only retarded, they're making the reader more retarded by the second. So enjoy the thread, I'm out.

>>12300112
>>12300042
ending your posts with "that's it I'm gone" or some variant is such a bitch move

>>12300117
Yup

>>12294841
Subsidizing more solar panels and wasting more of NASA's money on satellites to stare at Africa isn't going to solve climate change.

The best way to solve climate change is to firebomb the entirety of China and Indian's urban landmass.

>>12300320
>this post was sponsored by Northrop© Grumman™ Corporation (NYSE:NOC) - Delivering Free-Range Organic Bombs Where You Need It

>>12300340
My first choice would have actually been to give their urban centers a pretty facade of Trinitite, but that's not as diplomatically defensible as conventional bombardment.

>coservatives
>literally ignoring science for political gains and letting 200k people died because they refuse to do anything about it quick
oh my god based trump
the rona only effects low income people (wink wink blacks)
its going to be gone by april
blame China! (other countries who take this seriously are doing WAY better, even "second-worlders")
>democrats
>whining on twitter
>whining in universities, an already useless institutions
oh my god liberals are literally destroying America

seriously, the only refutations conservatives ever have against liberals are that they prevent free speech (reminder that trump is still on twitter and facebook is used by conservatives)
oh and Fox IS mainstream media, almost as big if not bigger than CNN

>>12301740
>if you dont support biden you MUST be a trump supporter
die faggot

Gee I wonder why a science journal would be against a President who's anti science?

>>12301751
>>if you dont support biden you MUST be a trump supporter

>>12293639
Of course there are going to be those faggot-ass lefties who will try to lambast trump whenever they can. But there is also some well-founded criticism, when trump says something retarded, like the disinfectant statement, it is an indicator that he isn't doing his job well; by which I mean, "if this is the kind of retarded shit he's saying that we actually know about, what kind of retarded shit is he saying behind closed doors that affects the actual administration of the US? Is this why covid has been such a problem for the US? What other areas is he fucking up in?"

>>12302154
trump is a normal stupid person, and as such he says stuff without thinking, and says things and forgets about them, and has ideas that look great now and retarded when he remembers about them the next morning. most people expect him to behave like the average manufactured fake public figure and 4 years of this and they haven't learned their lesson. 90% of the well-founded criticism you are talking about falls under this category, because your example is just another case of this

>if this is the kind of retarded shit he's saying that we actually know about, what kind of retarded shit is he saying behind closed doors that affects the actual administration of the US? Is this why covid has been such a problem for the US? What other areas is he fucking up in?"
and what shit do other presidents behind closed doors that nobody sees? i'm sick of people who hate trump just because he is obnoxious, this is the problem with democracy, if he lied correctly like normal politicians you would let him pass all the bullshit laws you wanted and be happy you have a serious responsible president. the world didn't burn, and the covid shit would be just as bad with any president

>>12302219
well said, anon.
the sad truth is normies just need someone to hate.

>>12291792
That's a serious breech of ethics.
It doesn't matter who's in charge. scientists, especially publishers have an obligation to impartiality to maintain the legitimacy they hold as unbiased researchers. This isn't some political rag or editorial column it's a scientific journal they shouldn't be publishing opinions, much less political ones.

>>12299944
science is international.
it is not internationalist. you're thinking of economics doctrine. globalization is how you get "growth".
science (and basic grade 3 level logic, really) has shown "growth" to be seriously irrational.

>>12291792
Of the goddamn endless disinformation threads maintained on this post-Soviet slum of a board, this is the most desperately stupid one I've seen.

>>12302219
>the covid shit would be just as bad with any president
This is not a reasonable thing to say. We don't have several identical planet earths to test several different presidents and their response to covid. My opinion is that a less retarded president would have done better than trump did, by not reducing funding for anticipating and responding to pandemics before COVID became a thing.

Regardless, if you're going to get fucked by whoever is in power, you'd want to pick the person who is less retarded, since they'll be able to stop other countries from fucking the US, and if they're not retarded they'll be able to better handle things where your interests and theirs align.
For example, most people didnt want a pandemic to occur. Trump didn't want a pandemic to occur. His response is not benefitting him by fucking over the people, it's fucking the people and himself. If he was less retarded, he would have been able to act in his own self interest in a better manner

>>12291792
>scientific paper starts taking sides in politics
That's a hard pass for me

>>12302660
Remember when Tao had a "mathematical" reason for supporting Clinton in 2016? What a joke.

>>12302656
you recognize that we can't know if trump did good or bad and then immediatly afterwards you say that actually he did badly. it's also interesting that what you mention as example is something that literally no other president has done and would have done, because it goes against being reelected among other things, yet it's an example of him in particular being bad.

>you'd want to pick the person who is less retarded
i think you are assuming that his interests align with yours, otherwise you'd want the opposite. do politician's interests actually align with yours? as long as they are politicians in the shitty system you guys have, it doesn't fucking matter who is upstairs other than in order to give you an easy target to bully

>>12291792

>>12302656
If anything they should have ignored it in the spring so that people wouldn't have gotten lockdown fatigue for when lockdowns were really necessary (now during the "dreaded" 2nd wave).
they essentially cried wolf and now when the wolf actually comes no one cares.
not that I don't think coof is actually a meme and always was.

>>12292080
>We believe in correct spelling too.

>>12292150
only a scientist would know that
you are not one

>>12291987
someone needs to turn this picture into a meme that somehow involves trannies and dildos.

When did science get all of these moralfags all of a sudden? This used to be an area of study for autistics and spergs who cared about human life like they care about raindrops, now its all about muh human rights this muh stupid black people muh stupid women muh retarded monkey politics that are an act by the lobbyist anyway. Fucking shit man Im just curious about the universe.

>>12291987
and "diversity"

>>12291987
and muh "diversity"
and muh dick
it's "science", so we best throw something about game theory in too

>>12293400
I believe you are going to hell with the satanic pedophiles who run this world

>>12291795
this post is proof you are though. 4 more years tranny

>>12302660
these are the same fucktards that will scream and cry /pol/ nonstop to anyone that challenges their bs and presents the other side of the arugment.

>it's ok when we do it how dare you try to break up our brainwashing attempts by challenging the indoctrination blasted at you from every angle all day every day fucking white male!

>>12303019
How did you manage to figure this out when I simply said that politics doesn't belong in science journal?

>>12292154
>Trump cultists are still desperately coping over him saying that