/sci/ - Science & Math

Yes but its limited by physics

Yes and it is guaranteed by physics

>>12287981
I heard someone say quantum physics proves determinism is real but I don't want that to be true it's too reddit. What proof do we have for free will?

>>12287975
What, for you, would leave the possibility of free will open? It’s a pretty ill-defined problem imo

>>12287993
>quantum physics proves-
Nothing. It proves nothing. It is literally made up reddit garbage.

>>12287993
> What proof do we have for free will?
If I didn't have free will I wouldn't be able to do this.
*flails arms and runs around the room*
>BUDIDUDIDUDIDUI BIDA BAM AM I AM MAKING UP WORDS LIKE FINGAMUNGUS
See, I free willed that.
t. average free will believing moron.

>>12287975
>free will
>free
fuck off commie. things in the world cost $.

>>12287975
It's like chess. The Universe gives you a set of rules, but you decide how to live within the constraints of those rules

>>12287975
shut up faggot

>>12288096
the individual atoms don't have free will, and any potential quantum randomness would converge to rigorous structures at the level of human abstraction especially so in our daily lives

>>12288144
>>12287975
This goes back to mechanistic materialism. Everything is probably determined, to be honest, as physics has pointed us to that.
That said, if there is some chance of true spontaneousness, then it's possible we have some form of free will. Some philosophers of the mind argue that we should take our experience of free will and spontaneousness as our ground zero truth and presume we simply haven't discovered how it's possible yet.
Tl;dr we don't know.

>>12287993
It's your/our determinism
Both these ideas are merged
It's not written, we make it up

>>12288166
this
the whole discussion of free will is kind of silly anyway at this point, as we don't even really understand consciousness scientifically anyway

>>12288140
>faggot
Why the homophobia?

>>12288195
because 4chin

>>12287975
>Is free will real?
Yes. If it's not, then I'm not in control of my answer, thus you can't trust my answer.

Will is real it's just not free

>>12288226
-Anti Box Man

>>12287975
Yes and it invalidates deterministic theories.

>>12287993
Is up to the interpretation of quantum mechanics you pick

>>12287975
Not sure but the usual idea that the universe being non deterministic due to quantum mechanics guarantees us free will is silly.

Causality implies it shouldn't be, strictly speaking, possible. Still, it depends on how far down you want to break down the meaning of free will. What even constitutes a choice or a thought inside your mind is pretty much an unsolvable problem.

>>12287975
Jump off and building and see if you can free will yourself upwards.

>>12288171
I get you
Makes sense

>>12288140
>t. Redditor who believes in determinism

>>12289058
I just did :-)

I find it hilarious that any scientism-ist thinks with any conviction they know fuck all about free will

>>12288246
Based

>>12289036
Why? That sounds like it makes sense.

>>12288042
Lmao. Gatekeeping this hard.

>>12287993
our current understanding of quantum physics disproves determinism, because quantum physics involves things happening due to random chance with no prior cause

>>12289050
It's pretty obvious and I don't understand why sci turds can't see it from the following perspective. If we had free will we wouldn't be so successful. We've inherited tonnes of mammalian functionality from previous ancestors, functionality that runs in the background for our best interest since we are usually incapable of consciously making error-fee decisions. Saying we have free will is like saying a toddler can survive this world alone without any guidance from its family or tribe, I mean just look at how primitive our politics is? Operating from the assumption that humans are rational creatures.

>>12289050
It's pretty obvious and I don't understand why sci turds can't see it from the following perspective. If we had free will we wouldn't be so successful. We've inherited tonnes of reptilian functionality from the earliest reptiles, functionality that runs in the background for our best interest since we are usually incapable of consciously making error-fee decisions. Saying we have free will is like saying a toddler can survive this world alone without any guidance from its family or tribe, I mean just look at how primitive our politics is? Operating from the assumption that humans are rational creatures.

>>12289427
the usual answer is because it means our future is not set in stone but the mechanisms which dictate what future we end up in are quantum mechanics which are out of our control.

>>12287975

>>12289058
>gravity disproves free will
Retard. No one said free will is when you fly in the air

>>12287975
You decide.

>>12287975
>Is free will real?

yeah, it's real, but THEY are using mind control technologies, so they don't want you to think that free will is real.

I would say yes. But I'm not sure if I were not predetermined to give that answer.

>>12290014

In that sense, classical physics is also nondeterministic, because there's no way humans can predict the future. It is non-computable. If you say, just because humans cannot compute it, doesn't mean it is not determined. Well, what does "determine" mean then, exactly.

Now in quantum physics, all those spooky experiments have one assumption - that experimenters have free wills, that two guys at two different locations can create independent, random decisions as to which way they orient their equipment. But if their choices are predetermined, the experiment doesn't prove shit.