/sci/ - Science & Math

Restaurants and other small businesses have to stay open or the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

>>12283898
>have to stay open
No they don't. It seems unsafe for there to mask exemptions when people sit down at restaurants as well. I'm pretty sure the virus is still transmissible when people are sitting down.

>>12283837
>Does sitting down somehow prevent the spread of the virus?
That would be nice. Dining in a restaurant is pretty risky, though not as bad as going to a bar. It's pretty easy to support restaurants by ordering take out.

Cause tables and chairs don't need to be told to maintain 6 foot distance.

>>12283837
FFS don't be a moron

>>12283919
I guess thousands of restaurants going out of business at the same time isn't that bad.

>>12283837
>maaaaask wear the maaaaaaask
shut up faggot

>>12284187
It's not that bad compared to the millions of people that can get infected by COVID-19

>>12284389
>1% mortality rate

>>12284022
Why don't we do this every flu season?

>>12284485
No elections normally

>>12284485
The most concerning things about the outbreak is hearing things about circulation issues and organ damage. Does this happen with other respitory illnesses? I wish a medfag would list all the known differences for us.

>>12284485
Because there's not a political agenda to be pushed

>>12284565
So the reality is that other respiratory viruses can cause a plethora of issues, including inflammation of the heart. The question is if they cause them at the same rate as SARS-CoV-2. I doubt any other respiratory virus has been as scrutinized, so we really don't know. Generally, someone would get over their cold or flu, and that was the end of it, they weren't getting scans to check for silent organ damage. SARS-CoV-2 may be unusual, or it may not be.

>>12284612
That's a little disheartening but thanks.

>>12284565
We won't properly understand the effects of the virus until well after this is done. There are a lot of theories about side effects but not much that can actually be confirmed. A lot of this is they run tests on people who recovered, find that x% have some other issue, claim that it may be covid related. But they didn't check those people before they got covid so could also be nothing

>>12283837
When you're eating food is going in your mouth, Corona can't get out while everything is going in DUH

>>12283837
It doesn't, which is why the areas that reopen indoor dining get hit with outbreaks shortly after. This virus rides on moisture droplets, and with how patrons yammer at each other, laugh, cough, etc and how most buildings have shit ventilation, you end up with restaurants becoming covid hotboxes.

The only way to responsibly run any kind of establishment like this right now is with a limited number of generously spaced outdoor tables.

>>12283837
face shield works so that you can eat while resturant use, even a base ball cap positioned well is similar

>>12283837
baseball cap + flexie wrap from your kitchen draped dangling down infront of you would work dispite how moronic you look it is perhaps and work to prevent

>>12285042
>areas that reopen indoor dining get hit with outbreaks shortly after
Then why is the government allowing these places to reopen in the first place?

>>12284485
We are going to from now on, they will use "preventable flu deaths" as justification to continue this indefinitely.

>>12283837
I can't believe people were gullible enough to ruin the world forever over THE FUCKING COMMON COLD

>>12283837
New York wants you to only remove your mask when taking a bite of food or taking a sip of your drink. You should replace your mask between each of these.
Funny how all of the "wash your hands" and "don't touch your face" messaging disappeared and everything became about wearing masks.

>>12284401
>end of 2020
>still using muh death rate
You weren't the brightest kid in class, hm?

>>12283837
The assumption is that your resting virus shed is low enough to risk it. When you walk around you breath harder and more.

>simping for restaurants
just order takeout or drivethru and if the food is good they won't go out of business

>>12285286
addendum: why the fuck does BIG RESTO lobby on fucking 4chan now

>>12285274
>only remove your mask when taking a bite of food or taking a sip of your drink

Imagine trying to eat a hamburger while following this dumb fucking rule. Ridiculous

>>12285250
>THE FUCKING COMMON COLD
different virus.

>>12283837
It's hard to eat with a mask on.
I was surprised that Fight Club didn't finish the restaurant business.
Now I'll be surprised if this covid thing won't do it.

>>12285210
Just think about how many preventable suicides could be circumvented if the government gave lonely men girlfriends. Why aren’t they doing that?

>>12285210
Why would anyone want this indefinitely?

>>12284389
If you don't want to get infected then don't go to a restaturant you fucking retard

>>12285700
>lock yourself inside if you don't want to get infected, respect muh freedumb

Where I live, we still have to wear masks. We only get to take them off when we’re eating. They straight up won’t let you in if you don’t wear a mask.

>>12283837
The coronavirus has good manners and will wait to infect you until after eating, which is surprising since it's Chinese

>>12285339
That would decrease suicides among men, but increase suicides among women.

>>12284485
Because flu has existed for ages so people are used to it. Both viruses only really kill oldies who need to die anyway. To be honest, a lot of people need to die if we're to continue as a species: our resource consumption is absurd and completely unsustainable. We use more energy than the sun provides us each year.

>>12285178
>Then why is the government allowing these places to reopen in the first place?
because muh economy

They can't wrap their head around the fact that an everlasting cycle of partial control -> reopen -> outbreak is far more damaging to businesses than closing down hard enough to get this thing under control and being (mostly) done with.

Just look at New Zealand, life there has returned to normal and cases that could turn to large outbreaks get sniped before they spread to more than a handful of people.

>>12286016
sounds like a step towards equality then

>>12286414
>Just look at New Zealand, life there has returned to normal and cases that could turn to large outbreaks get sniped before they spread to more than a handful of people.
Sweden never stopped being normal.

>>12286029
>a lot of people need to die if we're to continue as a species
If you wear a mask, then you're not allowed to complain about overpopulation.

>>12286029
>We use more energy than the sun provides us each year
Not even remotely true. Humans use as much energy in one year as the sun puts on the earth in less than one hour.

>>12286749
And Sweden's results sucked compared to NZ, and Sweden's cases are exploding.

>>12287036
Are they wearing masks in Africa?

Why were the BLM protests allowed? Thousands of people clustered together not wearing masks when you check the streams. Radio silence about that from the media, but we have to put up with social distancing indefinitely? 90 days of riots with minimal arrests, but people refusing to wear a mask at the grocery store blows up over night? The coronavirus is a sham.

>>12287264
>Thousands of people clustered together not wearing masks when you check the streams.
Many were wearing masks, but yes, there was risk.

>Radio silence about that from the media, but we have to put up with social distancing indefinitely?
Sure, never mind that Georgia, Florida, and Texas all allowed bars to open and indoor dining to resume in early June. I'm sure that had nothing to do with the rise in cases.

>but people refusing to wear a mask at the grocery store blows up over night?
Isn't creating your own narrative fun?

>>12287272
>Isn't creating your own narrative fun?
He's not though; if he were, I could go walk into a grocery store without one. Cope harder and quit bootlicking.

>>12287272
Creating my own narrative?
https://nypost.com/2020/10/06/fight-on-flight-after-man-with-face-shield-refuses-to-wear-mask/
https://abc7chicago.com/politics/man-arrested-after-refusing-to-wear-mask-to-vote/7447927/
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/im-not-doing-it-man-refusing-to-wear-mask-inside-costco-kicked-out-of-store
https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6731679-Fargo-coffee-shop-calls-police-when-man-refuses-to-wear-a-mask-coughs-on-employees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZzuDyRVu6E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcUt43pPMo
My favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uRolZF77nk
I'd tear you up with even more evidence, but I think that will do for now.
>Sure, never mind that Georgia, Florida, and Texas all allowed bars to open and indoor dining to resume in early June
I can guarantee you they have to social distance there or else people would complain and the business would be shut down for not following bogus safety procedures. I'm sure you remember CHAZ? How they claimed to be independent and never had their water and power shut off? Who do you think was responsible for that? Social distancing was hardly considered, let alone practiced at that time. The number of cops who stepped in to apprehend them? Minimal. If I head to Walmart and refuse to put on a mask, the cops will be on me like white on rice.
What do you have to gain from pretending that the coronavirus matters? It doesn't, as has been demonstrated by the BLM protests! They got away with not social distancing, so why can't we, we being those who are not burning down buildings, setting up anarchist states, disturbing the peace, etc.? Who are you trying to fool?

>>12285898
Unironically, yes. If you're that fucking scared of the world just hide yourself away, no one wants to see you anyway.

>>12286749
>Sweden never stopped being normal.
Well... "normal"

>>12287069
>cases are exploding
And yet the deaths are still quite low

>>12287104
Even if they aren't wearing masks, they're still reproducing at an unsustainable rate.

>>12285700
The government should force the restaurants to stay closed, you fucking retard. Why are they even open in the first place?

>>12287336
>https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6731679-Fargo-coffee-shop-calls-police-when-man-refuses-to-wear-a-mask-coughs-on-employees
Haha, that's your evidence? You're comparing a bunch of people, the majority of whom were wearing masks and made a choice to be there, to a person who was going out of his way to cough on people who didn't want to be exposed to him?

>I can guarantee you they have to social distance there or else people would complain and the business would be shut down for not following bogus safety procedures.
Sure, sure, it's an absolute coincidence that those states got wrecked, while other states that also had protests had no significant rise in cases. An absolute coincidence. Because a bunch of drunk people in a bar, who can't wear masks while drinking, are totally going to adhere to social distancing rules.

>>12287371
Who said we want the government interfering in our business? Just stay home if it's so concerning to you

>>12287355
>And yet the deaths are still quite low
And the people who already died don't count?

>>12287371
>Why are they even open in the first place?
So that unemployment doesn't fucking double?

More people are harmed by you not going to the restaurant than by you going to the restaurant purely due to how closing down the restaurant harms the local economy.

>>12287396
Get take out.

>>12287372
>ignores the rest of my proof
All I needed to read. Won't bother with the rest of your post.

>>12287404
Oh, there's also your proof about a man assaulting someone. Your proof about a man who could have gone to a polling location that didn't require masks, but he wanted to create a situation and proceeded to argue with police for 30 minutes. Your proof about a man who went to a store, was asked to leave, and decided to argue and posted the video to instagram. Gee, I wonder why those were stories? Do you think if they went to the store, were asked to leave, and simply left, it would be covered? It's almost like these people were going out of their way to get as much attention as possible.

>>12287469
>a man who could have gone to a polling location that didn't require masks
You know that people have to vote in the district where they live, right? Most people only have access to a single polling location.

>>12287386
Who cares about unemployment if infection rates are skyrocketing? The economy isn't more important than human life.

>>12287382
Those people probably would have died of pneumonia or the flu anyway. I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

>>12287378
>Who said we want the government interfering in our business?
I do because masks should be mandatory everywhere and restaurants should be closed. Nobody is taking these restrictions seriously, and that's why case numbers are going up. The government needs to get more involved, otherwise we're going to be in big trouble.

>>12287547
The virus has a 1% death rate, being unable to pay your mortgage or buy food is much more likely to lead to death.

>>12287567
I think that Americans in general have a strange relationship with death. It's like they're unable to come to terms with the fact that they aren't invincible, which leads to thought processes that prioritize eliminating any possibility of dying. This is why it's so hard for people to accept the fact that massive lockdowns and restrictions are worse than the disease itself.

>>12287469
Do you want me to dig up more evidence for my case? It's not going to bode well for your argument. Also, where do you think you're going with those goalposts? Originally you told me that I was making things up when I claimed that people refusing to wear masks consistently made it to the news. Once I proved that I was not imagining things, you are now saying that people went out of their way to get attention. Did it not occur to you that they were first approached and a scene was only created because the people not wearing masks are aware that they do not matter? I assure you that the intent of the individuals recording themselves was to buy what they needed and then get out, something that happens all the time where mask rules are not enforced.
Even then, my main point was that people were getting in trouble for not wearing masks despite criminals doing the same thing in the presence of police and nothing happening to them. Can you explain to me why we have to social distance but protesting for 3 months straight was allowed?

>>12287264
>but people refusing to wear a mask at the grocery store blows up over night?

>>12287802
Your claim was that people were making news for not wearing masks to a grocery store, when the stories you provided were people not wearing masks while assaulting other people, refusing to go to a location where they didn't have to wear a mask, spitting on employees, etc. Simply not wearing a mask is not why those were stories. You're creating your own narrative.

>I assure you that the intent of the individuals recording themselves was to buy what they needed and then get out
Yes, I'm sure the video you posted of anti-mask protesters was all about buying what they needed so they could leave. Did you even look at your own links and videos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=hMcUt43pPMo&feature=emb_logo

>my main point was that people were getting in trouble for not wearing masks
Except they're not. They're getting in trouble after they refuse to leave and argue with the police or assault someone.

>Can you explain to me why we have to social distance but protesting for 3 months straight was allowed?
You're socially distancing outside? That's not happening where I am. Also, protesting outside with masks seemed to do very little to increase the case rate, whereas opening bars and indoor dining did. Why aren't you protesting the latter?

>>12283837
'rona is polite. It knows that it isn't nice to bother people while they are eating.

>>12287584
As an American I have to say I agree, people can't seem to comprehend actual risk management so if someone says "This has a chance of death" then they'll do literally anything to avoid it even if it means doing something with more long-term damage potential.

>>12287264
>The coronavirus is a sham
then why did superspreader drumpf have to be air lifted to a hospital and given experimental drugs?
Everywhere drumpf goes the cases of coronavirus goes up, the difference is his supporters don't get the best healthcare with a free ride on a helicopter, they just get left out in the cold to catch the virus

>>12287341
>scared of the world
That's what you anti-maskers always say, but it's not the point. People don't wear masks to protect themselves because they're scared. They wear masks to protect others. Like you, who seems scared.

>>12287851
They were bothered for not wearing a mask which in turn lead to their arrest. If they were not approached there would have been no trouble at all. Again, I am not creating a narrative. Nice try, though.
>Yes, I'm sure the video you posted of anti-mask protesters was all about buying what they needed so they could leave. Did you even look at your own links and videos?
That was an instance of people going viral for not wearing masks. Try to keep up, please.
>>my main point was that people were getting in trouble for not wearing masks
>Except they're not.
Wrong. They were approached for not wearing a mask when there would have been zero problems if they were left alone.
>Also, protesting outside with masks seemed to do very little to increase the case rate
Okay then, why do we have to social distance if wearing a mask is all that is required to curb the spread? If you look at just about any stream, you will see that people are tightly packed together, masks on and off. If they turned out just fine, what's the deal with standing six feet away everywhere else? Being 6ft apart at bars and restaurants spiked cases, but standing closer than sardines and shouting for days at a time in groups of 300 did not produce the same effects? That is unbelievable.

>>12287922
I don't care about him, but I will say that it most likely wasn't in his doctors' best interest that he get sick and possibly die. After all, he isn't 20 anymore. Also, I would like to add that the coronavirus is being treated as something incredibly deadly despite having an incredibly low mortality rate. Constantly people hear about muh cases this and new records that, but what about deaths solely caused by the virus? When I say that the coronavirus is a load of baloney, I am not saying that it doesn't exist or that it doesn't kill. What I am saying is that the response to it is wholly inappropriate. The lockdowns, the social distancing, the masks, all of it is unnecessary.

>>12287922
Trump never had coronavirus. That was a 4d chess move.

>>12287065
Nice reading comprehension moron

>>12283919
>>12283837
Obviously its not about “sitting down” you retard cunt
>>12284401
1% is still 3x the death rate for the flu you subhuman god damn do you read anything besides 4chan posts
>>12284612
Interesting take
>>12284968
King

Sometimes i wonder if im making a mistake ever seeking the truth rather than just humor
>>12285250
Retard
>>12285274
You’re just gonna contaminate the shit out of your hands, but as long as you’re sitting at a table i suppose it’s not as much an issue as walking around
>>12285283
According to who? I really thought it was a “risk we have to take to not destroy the economy” sort of deal. They usually space out the tables after all.
>>12286414
any evidence that this would be more damaging or are you just being contrarian?
>>12287065
I know that the sun puts out more than we use, but do you have source for this figure?
>>12287551
Any source for this assumption?
>>12287944
I thought that was an interesting idea but i don’t see any evidence for it.
>>12288005
Why? He was replying directly to what you said.

>>12287926
Nah there are definitely people who are scared as hell and think masks will protect them. I remember around April I was on the river with my uncle and another dude in a boat was wearing a custom mask while at top speed. You're not gonna get fresher air than that. Our media and culture is making people go crazy.

>>12287940
>They were bothered for not wearing a mask which in turn lead to their arrest.
In one case, they had a voting option where they didn't need to wear a mask, and they chose to go where they weren't supposed to, trespassed, then argued with the police for 30 minutes when they refused to leave before finally being arrested. Don't act like they weren't attempting to stir the pot.

>That was an instance of people going viral for not wearing masks. Try to keep up, please.
That was an instance of people going out of their way to create a stir by not wearing a mask, announced it, and filmed it, when you were acting like it was just some innocent shopper trying to run their errands making the news. You've yet to prove your original point.

>Wrong. They were approached for not wearing a mask when there would have been zero problems if they were left alone.
Oh, got it, so if I ask you to not board the plane naked, I deserve to get punched because I should have left you alone? Are you kidding me? It was an over the top reaction, and that's why it was a story. Do you really think it'd make the news if he'd simply put a mask on or left the plane without a fight? Every single one of your stories involved extra shit besides the simple fact that they had no mask on.

>Okay then, why do we have to social distance if wearing a mask is all that is required to curb the spread?
Why do you think being outdoors is the same as being indoors?

>Being 6ft apart at bars and restaurants spiked cases, but standing closer than sardines and shouting for days at a time in groups of 300 did not produce the same effects? That is unbelievable.
It's really not, not if you have any sense. People at restaurants may be six feet apart, their servers are not, their food is exposed to the air, their mouths and noses aren't covered, ventilation is probably poor. Same thing at bars, with the extra issue that drunk people are not going to socially distance. The numbers bear it out.

People who mass reply are sad attention whores.

>>12287926
>They wear masks to protect others.
Oh my, how noble!

>>12288053
>Any source for this assumption?
Using sources is a logical fallacy because you’re appealing to authority.

>>12283919
The issue was never about transmission, dumbass. If Transmission was an issue, Airlines would have been forced to suspend operations while countries trained populations in prevention and decontamination.

>>12288508
What's the issue, then?

>>12288512
The issue is politicians are retards who think about what looks good in presentation instead of what gives results.

>>12288479
People wear masks so others can copy them and wear masks, which is what protects them. I have no need to wear a mask in my car, but I still do because I know other dumbasses out there insist on not wearing them anywhere so at least I can give a grain of peer pressure instead of peer acceptance.

>>12288718
>peer pressure
The mask comes off. It’s about having power for the first time in your life, isn’t it?

>>12287342
That really seems like more of a Finnish trait than a Swedish one.

>>12288720
This

>>12288067
>You've yet to prove your original point.
Not true, you just didn't like my evidence. No worry, here is some more.
Man minding his own business and sitting alone until a cop provokes him: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-who-refused-wear-face-22627930
Woman in nearly empty bleachers rekt by the cops for not wearing a mask: https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/woman-tased-arrested-for-not-wearing-mask-at-football-game/
Not from the US but worth a mention: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/he-was-resisting-arrest-protests-in-mexico-as-man-arrested-for-failing-to-wear-face-mask-is-beaten-to-death

>Why do you think being outdoors is tylhe same as being indoors?
A lot of outdoor events have been cancelled but not one protest. Hmm...

>It's really not, not if you have any sense.
Food and water were handed out regularly at the riots. If you look at footage of the anarchy zones you will see people eating and drinking and having a good old time. No cops bothering them for it, either.

>naked on a plane analogy
Kek, that's the best you could come up with? Pick a different analogy or seek help.

>>12288063
>there are definitely people who are scared as hell and think masks will protect them
I don't believe it. People who are scared usually inform themselves and know that unless they have a P100 covering ears and eyes as well, there's hardly any protection.
>Our media and culture is making people go crazy.
I don't know about news in your country, but here it was downplayed hard. I stopped watching the news though, so not sure what it's like now.
>>12288479
Why the patronizing? Feel attacked?
>>12288720
>I try to inspire others
>hurrrrr power hungry nerd!!1

>>12288798
Not him, but you're very much interpreting stuff into those situations.
>Man minding his own business and sitting alone until a cop provokes him
No, he was in a train where he is supposed to wear a mask and didn't follow that rule.
>Woman in nearly empty bleachers rekt by the cops for not wearing a mask
Look at the video to see what really happened. She lashed out instead of following the rule.
>Not from the US but worth a mention:
Case of violent racism.

You have zero evidence.

>>12288919
>No, he was in a train where he is supposed to wear a mask and didn't follow that rule.
Again, he wasn't being obnoxious or coughing on anyone. He was by himself and doing nothing but the cop decided to bother him for not wearing a mask.

>>12288919
>She lashed out instead of following the rule.
The cops were giving her a tough time for not wearing a mask despite there not being many people in the bleachers at all, as can be seen in the video. There would have been no lashing out and no scene created if they had left her alone; she was not going out of her way to spread the virus and was only attacked because she wasn't wearing a mask. I'd hate to put words into your mouth, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong for saying this: are you saying she was in the wrong for bucking up against the officers as they arrested her? How quiet would you be if they were to take you away for doing nothing wrong?

>Case of violent racism.
What? You're just messing with me now?

>You have zero evidence.
This has yet to be addressed; Christians harassed by the police for not wearing masks, could have just been told to increase the space between themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7trfunaa-0&feature=emb_title
Now let us contrast that video with one from the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqA6UBwNm3k
Do you see what I have been trying to say now? Never mind the fact that everyone is clumped together, notice all the people in the video with no masks on. It's okay for them to huddle together and set up a 'no police zone' but singing in public is just too much?

>>12288955
>He was by himself and doing nothing
He was breathing. Aerosols are spread by breathing. If you're breathing, wear a mask in closed spaces when others are around. It's not a difficult concept, Anon.

>The cops were giving her a tough time
No, the exact opposite happened. The stadium has a rule set. She didn't follow those rules. Instead of either copying or leaving the place, she gave the cops a hard time as you see in the video. The cop isn't violent there at all.

>are you saying she was in the wrong for bucking up against the officers as they arrested her?
Very obviously yes. Are you disagreeing with this? Should you resist arrest? Was she even arrested?

>How quiet would you be if they were to take you away for doing nothing wrong?
100%, because that's how it works. You're questioned, evidence is presented, police agrees you're innocent, you're free. That's how you get not shot by the police.

>What? You're just messing with me now?
So you didn't read the article at all. Can't say I'm surprised. It was a quote.

>Christians harassed by the police for not wearing masks, could have just been told to increase the space between themselves
No, the law says to put on masks inside. They were specifically protesting that law by not following it.

>Now let us contrast that video with one from the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone:
That's outside.

>>12289017
>He was breathing
Michael Rosen tier. I'll admit that gave me a good laugh.

>She gave the cops a hard time
They could have just not gone up to her. They were outside, something that you say every time I bring up the fact that protestors and rioters do the same exact thing without police so much as lifting a finger. I guess it's just not okay when she does it, combined with there being way less people around her?
>The cop isn't violent there at all.
Except for the part where she is tazed.

>100%, because that's how it works.
People are falsely convicted all the time, but I'm going to let this slide because it has little to do with my main point. No use in starting an argument over that.

>No, the law says to put on masks inside. They were specifically protesting that law by not following it.
They were not following the 'mandatory masks indoors' rule by being outside? Okay. You keep saying that the rioters were outside as some bizarre defense of their actions, so what were the singers not doing right? Did they forget to put up 'no police allowed' signs around the block? Also, they have sang before without being arrested. What's the issue this time?

>That's outside.
What are you trying to get at by saying that? The singers were also outside which you forgot to mention for whatever reason. Just because they are outside the aerosols from their breath are rendered powerless?

>So you didn't read the article at all. Can't say I'm surprised. It was a quote.
The word 'racism' does not appear in any of the videos featured in the article. It is only used once in the comment section. Would you mind showing me the quote, or did you read a completely different piece?

>>12289084
>Michael Rosen tier. I'll admit that gave me a good laugh.
I don't know what you mean.

>They could have just not gone up to her
They need to. It's their job to protect the public. She was a nuisance and didn't follow the rules she accepted by walking in there.

>They were outside
No, they were in the stadium.
I'm also not saying the protestors being idiots is okay.

>Except for the part where she is tazed.
She was resisting heavily. Her own fault.

>People are falsely convicted all the time
kek, sure. Doesn't change anything about the fact that in a democracy they have executive power and you are supposed to follow their orders. If you're innocent, why not comply?

>They were not following the 'mandatory masks indoors'
No, they were not following the 'mandatory masks'. This is Russia, Anon.

>bizarre defense of their actions
No, I'm not.

>What are you trying to get at by saying that?
There are no rules that say you have to wear a mask outside.

>Just because they are outside the aerosols from their breath are rendered powerless?
You're mixing law and physics here.

>The word 'racism' does not appear in any of the videos featured in the article
lmfao, let me quote directly from that exact article:
>Giovanni López, 30yo day laborer arrested for not wearing a mask, criminalised by cops and brutally beaten to death bc he belongs to the Mexican racialized underclass.
>According to the Guardian, Gerardo Octavio Solís, a Jalisco state prosecutor, is insistent that López was arrested for “aggressive behaviour,” not a breach of mask rules.
You need to actually read the articles you post, Anon.

>>12289111
>I don't know what you mean
How new are you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1cfVQyrQ3Q

>They weren't outside because they were in a stadium
The stadium is very clearly outside, as evidenced by the parked cars in the background and lack of a roof over the attendees' heads. If you are just messing around, sorry for misinterpreting what you were saying.

>This is Russia, Anon.
What? I'm going to assume that you're joking. It's hard to tell at this stage of the conversation over text.

>let me quote directly from that exact article
Oh, that? It doesn't help you in any way seeing as it is from a tweet made by some rando. A person spouting 'muh racism' doesn't make it true. Gio was nabbed for not wearing a mask. Hand-waving the incident as 'a violent case of racism' is nonsense. As a matter of fact, here is another article that goes into more detail about the subject. Note how the Mexican police abuse others for their lack of masks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/mexican-arrested-for-not-wearing-face-mask-later-found-dead
>Gerardo Octavio Solís, a Jalisco state prosecutor, is insistent that López was arrested for “aggressive behaviour,” not a breach of mask rules.
Except for the fact that onlookers say many times that Gio was not causing any sort of disturbance and was trying to eat.

>>12284596
you are retarded

>>12289182
>How new are you?
kek, okay, completely forgot about him. It's been years.

>The stadium is very clearly outside
I mean outside in the sense of public space.

>What? I'm going to assume that you're joking
lol you clearly have problems with reading it seems. Moscow is in Russia, Anon. Its capitol in fact. Also, Russia has different rules than the US in case you weren't aware of that.

>A person spouting 'muh racism' doesn't make it true.
Right. The fact is still that he was from a racially discriminated minority and the cops arrested him for "violent behavior".
>Hand-waving the incident as 'a violent case of racism' is nonsense
Absolutely not. Sure, the police abuse the mask rules, but that doesn't help your point either. The goal here clearly wasn't making Gio wear a mask. Please tell me you know that.
>Except for the fact that onlookers say many times that Gio was not causing any sort of disturbance and was trying to eat.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. He was midninf his own business, police arrested him for "aggressive behavior" which didn't happen, then brutally batter him. Hence, the case wasn't about masks.

>>12288718
Goddamn, that's really pathetic.
>>12288909
>Why the patronizing? Feel attacked?
No, I just think your weird martyr complex is pathetic.

>>12289414
>No, I just think your weird martyr complex is pathetic
>caring about your peers is a martyr complex
>sociopaths are the norm

>>12289512
No, what makes it a martyr complex is the
>I'm not doing it for myself, I'm doing it for YOU!
rhetoric that you've been spouting. This idea that you're wearing a mask to protect the innocent, that you wear a mask in your car to be a shining example to those other horrid people who don't wear masks and thus are ATTACKING those innocent people your mask strives to protect! It's genuinely sad.

>>12289556
>This idea that you're wearing a mask to protect the innocent, that you wear a mask in your car to be a shining example to those other horrid people who don't wear masks and thus are ATTACKING those innocent people your mask strives to protect!
Cool story. Did this take long to make up?

>>12289610
I'll just leave this here:
>People don't wear masks to protect themselves because they're scared. They wear masks to protect others.
> I have no need to wear a mask in my car, but I still do because I know other dumbasses out there insist on not wearing them

>>12289650
>> I have no need to wear a mask in my car, but I still do because I know other dumbasses out there insist on not wearing them
Again, cool story but why are you making this up? I certainly never did that and never said that was sensible.
Although of course it does make sense when you regularly take strangers with you.

>>12289653
Post: >>12288718
Reply: >>12288720
Re-reply: >>12288909

>>12289680

>>12289688
Alright, but you still acted like what that first anon said was completely reasonable. If you don't support the idea of people wearing masks in their cars to "peer pressure anti-maskers" you should be more careful about the reply chains you jump into in the future.

>>12289715
I quoted the sections of your replies that I did not agree with.

>>12284485
cause there's a vaccine desu, once we have a vaccine for covid then we can accept that people are going to die no matter what

>>12288909
>I don't believe it. People who are scared usually inform themselves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy

>>12289784
The effectiveness of flu shots varies from year to year. Sometimes it’s as low as 10%.

>>12289241
>Moscow is in Russia
What are you talking about? The event took place in Moscow, Idaho. And you accuse me of not being able to read?
Regarding the rest of your post, I don't think you're really going to change my mind on what happened. Yes it would have been extreme to kill him over a mask, but I do not see the arrest and ensuing murder as racially charged. Not helping matters is that mask laws were passed and abused by the police. Not to mention Gio made the news by not wearing a mask, as was my original point. The police abusing their jurisdiction was just the icing on the cake. I can see that we're just going to keep talking in circles until the thread perishes, so why not just stop here? Neither of us are getting anywhere.

>>12287547
>The economy isn't more important than human life.
Yes, who needs water, shelter, clothing, heating and food.

>>12284485
Because the flu doesn't fuck you up for months and maybe damage your organs for life.

>>12290489
Flu can lead to long-term organ damage

>>12284565
>The most concerning things about the outbreak is hearing things about circulation issues and organ damage.
Everyone have a set of moving goalposts of most concerning issues, this is just a talking point you. Next one is "not persistent immunity", next one is "protecting the elderly". Next one is "we don't know the long term effects". Next one is "more economic damage without lockdowns". It never ends.

>Does this happen with other respitory illnesses?
The flu kills people. young, old. middle age. Rarely healthy people but it still happens. Do you think these dead people have no end organ damage after they've died from the flu? Do you think a 65 year old flu survivor who was on mechanical ventilation 1 week have no lung damage? No kidney damage after being a multidrug cocktail while sedated for 7 days and only given fluid thorugh a plastic tube into his venous system?
Holy fuck. even an 18 year old whatever fully okay person who have a common cold can get hit with postviral fatigue that lasts for 12 months and cost him his job and plans and careers. This have been happening all the fucking time. millions of low key cases over the years over the globe.

>I wish a medfag would list all the known differences for us.
I just did.
t. MD

because you need to take your mask off to be able to get food into your mouth

>>12290489
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-complications#1
Spoiler: The flu can actually lead to a lot of the same complications that COVID-19 does which are what cause the long-term negative effects.

>>12290542
Why do you need to wear them in the 30 seconds between entering the restaurant and sitting down?

>>12290549
Spoiler Alert: Nobody can actually answer this question without appealing to authority.

>>12283988
restaurants pay the bills from alcohol sales though

>>12283837
studies debunked the mask meme long ago

>>12288798
>Man minding his own business and sitting alone until a cop provokes him
You mean man who ignored mask requirement and refused to get off the train, continued to resist when the officer physically tried to move the man, until the officer had finally had enough. He had three opportunities to prevent that from escalating, 1. wear a mask in the first place, 2. put on a mask when asked or leave the train, 3. get off the train once the officer grabbed him.

>Woman in nearly empty bleachers rekt by the cops for not wearing a mask
Would have been nice to have seen what happened before the video started. Why was the officer trying to arrest her, and why was she yelling? Maybe the officer was being a dick, but I'm be willing to bet this is no different than the many other instances where the woman was given the option of putting on a mask or leaving and refused both options.

Let me ask you this, if you walk into a store that says "no shoes, no shirt, no service," and you're not wearing shoes and a shirt, and you're refused service, do you think it will be a story if you peacefully leave? What if you refuse to leave, then argue with the police when they arrive, maybe even spit on them and physically assault someone? Do you think that would be a story? You're trying to turn these people into some kind of martyrs, meanwhile the officers and employees aren't the ones who created the rules, but they do have to enforce them. Do you think it's right to spit on and assault someone who is just doing their job? What you're really doing is showing a bunch of assholes who are abusing people who didn't create the rules they're protesting against. It's okay to disagree with masks, it's not okay to assault someone because of it.

If you're upset these people are being abused by the police after they refuse to comply, then surely you agree with the protests against police brutality?

>>12290751
how does it taste?

>>12290754
>Complains that people are being allowed to protest against police brutality
>Complains the police are brutalizing people for not wearing masks
I guess you're okay with the police assaulting people so long as they're black?

>>12289857
Did you even read that article? Doesn't apply here.

>>12290463
>The event took place in Moscow, Idaho
lol, the video only says Moscow. k then.

>And you accuse me of not being able to read?
Yes, because several times now you failed to do so.
>I don't think you're really going to change my mind on what happened
Me neither, since you're extremely stuck in your belief and intent on falsely interpreting what the articles you posted convey.
>I do not see the arrest and ensuing murder as racially charged
That's fine, but in any case it wasn't because of masks.
>I can see that we're just going to keep talking in circles
Well, you never replied to where I showed you the articles did not say what you think they did.
>Neither of us are getting anywhere
Yeah, seems so.

>>12290479
That's not the economy.

>>12290502
>>12290547
That's true, but the flu is (in the vast majority of cases) much less infectious and right now seems to have a much lower chance to do so.

>>12290549
>>12290586
This was answered in the thread. You breath harder and more when moving, and the particles are spread more by you moving through the air.
Have you tried thinking before posting?

>>12290522
>Everyone have a set of moving goalposts
Holy cope.
>I just did.
You missed the two most obvious differences. Actually three if were being pedantic here.

>>12290816
>You breath harder and more when moving, and the particles are spread more by you moving through the air.
Name literally 1 study that supports your hypothesis.

>>12290762
I'm not him. I'm asking what the double standard is all about concerning masks, but seeing this post >>12290788 I am judging that there is really no point in continuing. What is an argument on an anonymous imageboard going to accomplish anyway?

>>12290816
>You breath harder and more when moving
you guys need to visit /fit/ if this is really the case

>>12290852
>>12290861
lmfao are you serious? Test it for yourself. How do you breathe when sitting? How do you breathe when walking?
Shoot yourselves in the dick, it will be okay. There's no study that says otherwise.

>>12290855
>What is an argument on an anonymous imageboard going to accomplish anyway?
Discussion usually leads to insights if neither party is totally stuck in their thinking patterns or consciously posting misleading arguments in bad faith.

>>12290871
>>/fit/58165589
is this you famalan?

>>12290880
Never mind, I'm an idiot that can't quote other board's posts, just imagine a SEVERELY obese woman who needs an inhaler after walking ~20ft from the shopping cart return to her car (aka you).

To this day I don't get what's americans' problem with wearing masks. I seriously don't. It's one of many tools to protect yourself, and it works better when the tool is used cooperatively.

>>12290792
covid is (in the vast majority of cases) absolutely symptomless

>>12290924
And so is atherosclerosis.

>>12290917
you disagree with the health experts who say masks don't protect the wearer?

>>12290930
yes and i'm not being asked to alter my behavior to prevent it

>>12290933
I am a health expert. I draw my own conclussions.

>>12290937
based me too, that's why i don't wear a mask

>>12290877
I wasn't trying to mislead, if that's what your getting at. To clear things up, I will restate my original point: people are constantly shamed and harassed for not wearing masks. Despite this, the riots that took place this summer featured throngs of people grouped closely and many of them had no masks on. This is an incredible double standard as there are social distancing and mandatory mask signs everywhere. Why weren't the protestors forced to go home in order to maintain safety and minimize the spread of the virus? Why were many of them allowed to set up anarchist states that lasted for weeks? You will not be hard-pressed to find instances of the media saying that the rising numbers of people getting infected is unacceptable, that people should be 6 feet apart at any and all social gatherings, that if Americans just stayed home everything would turn out all right, that if people going to parties, the beach, bars as you have mentioned, they selfishly put themselves at risk and could kill/infect others.
Yet at the same time, the protests and riots were praised. The media rallied behind those that were marching in the streets very closely to each other, many of them with no mask on, singing in large groups, and more. That sort of behavior put a lot of people at risk, but any public condemnation of it on major news stations (outside of f*x news) hardly exists. Three straight months of doing the exact opposite of what was advised, i.e. staying home and only going out when absolutely necessary, staying 6 feet apart when at any sort of gathering, wearing a mask to protect others from a possible spread of the virus in case you are infected, and more.
Pic related is why I find the response to the coronavirus an extreme case of hypocrisy. There is no way that every last person in that photo was not less at risk than people who go and sit down at Crapplebee's.

>>12290950
Out of flawed reasoning, of course. If someone asks for my service, I will give them my recommendation. To protect themselves as far as possible. I lay out the possibilities to the patient and it's up to him to decide whether risking his life is worth it or not. Out of the tools that have been discussed, wearing masks, sun decontamination, washing fomites, they're all inocuous and cheap measures, and I think they're worthwhile of practicing as long as you want to eliminate as many possibilities of infection as you can. Whether you do it or not it's up to you. I am a private healthcare worker, I'm not the public health minister. My duty is to the patient that seeks me out, I am powerless over the will of others.

>>12290955
If you want my personal opinion, i'll give it to you.

> people are constantly shamed and harassed for not wearing masks
Good riddance.

>Despite this, the riots that took place this summer featured throngs of people grouped closely and many of them had no masks on
And if they got sick they knew the risks well enough.

>Why weren't the protestors forced to go home in order to maintain safety and minimize the spread of the virus?
It's up to the government to decide which measures they will use against threats, considering other risks. Killing them all in the name of containment would have been a valid solution. If you ask Why this sort of thing didn't happen, I know YOU know it was omitted to prevent even greater social distress. You may as well ask why was Christ crucified if he had committed no crime.

>Pic related is why I find the response to the coronavirus an extreme case of hypocrisy.
Whatever your subjective feelings about the disease are, it doesn't have absolutely nothing to do with its infectivity or virulence. You're the only one putting yourself at risk here. As long as you understand that fact anyone will be pleased. One of the biggest emotional burdens for healthcare workers is caring for patients who have repeatedly made damage to themselves despite the efforts. Seeing them die is a relief every time.

>>12290880
>>12290890
This is a science board. Please attain some basic reasoning skills.

>>12290924
That's still unknown. In any case, asymptomatic spreaders are a huge problem exactly because they are asymptomatic.

>>12290933
There is a study which says simple cloth masks don't protect that much. Nothing else. Feel free to post anything.
>masks don't protect the wearer?
Ah, so you failed really basic reading comprehension.

>>12290955
>people are constantly shamed and harassed for not wearing masks.
No, they're not. The vast majority of them is ignored and silently judged (rightfully so). Police reminding people that mask laws are in place isn't harassment.
>This is an incredible double standard
Why? Nobody here was saying that what they did was okay or sane.
>protests and riots were praised.
kek really? I find that hard to believe but not so hard that I'd be surprised if the USA are really that fucked up.
>I find the response to the coronavirus an extreme case of hypocrisy
I don't get it. You're saying "some people went unpunished so everyone advocating mask usage is a hypocrite"? That's not a good line of reasoning.

>>12290994
>There is a study which says simple cloth masks don't protect that much
Reminder all the studies out there are merely models about particle spread. None of them are experiments, and none of them measure the proportion in which each is more or less infective or virulent, since such studies are unethical in the first place.

What I don't know is why is there so many people who can't have the tiniest speck of Socratic humility. I guess that kind of people mostly work on exact sciences where shit is easy to measure. The fact that things can't be known for sure is the reason medics are discouraged of divulging information in the first place. The public is not fit to know medicine.

>>12291009
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586 dash 020 dash 02801 dash 8
>To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.
>Time-lapse images show how cough droplets spread from a person wearing an N95 mask
And many examples of studies that weren't based on simulations.

>>12291058
Evidence based medicine in general, peer review, and the current approaches to medical research in broad give almost always inconclusive, irreplicable results. It's always best to distrust them, specially when they're strongly linked to a political issue like this disease. That said, of course masks help. It will never be clear in what proportion. and the "reduce the severity of infection" is plain incoherent bullshit

>>12291074
Was that goalpost heavy when you moved it?
>everything is wrong anyways
Ah yes, the ultimate cop-out to end all debate.

>>12291074
>and the "reduce the severity of infection" is plain incoherent bullshit
Why is that incoherent? A smaller infectious dose is associated with less severe disease in numerous respiratory illnesses, and it's even been proven in animals infected with SARS-CoV-2, and masks have been proven to reduce exposure, even if they don't prevent infection entirely.

>>12285345
new world order

>>12283837
Yes, sit down and drink nutribulleted meat trough straw.

>>12290991
>And if they got sick they knew the risks well enough.
What about people who went to work or the grocery store on a normal day and then came out to these dense protests and had to walk home among throngs of people standing/marching shoulder to shoulder? Did they "know the risks well enough"?
If I say I'm going to go to a store without a mask, people pitch a fit and say "BUT THINK OF THE INNOCENT BYSTANDERS YOU MIGHT INFECT IF YOU POSSIBLY CARRY THE VIRUS!!!"
If I suggest that they should stay home to mitigate their risks, I'm told "THAT'S NOT FAIR YOU SELFISH PRICK JUST WEAR THE FUCKING MASK OR ELSE YOU'RE LITERALLY MURDERING GRANDMOTHERS!!!!"
But when huge throngs of people go out to protest, shoulder-to-shoulder, blocking up sidewalks and streets while many do not wear masks, and someone suggests those people are doing more harm than good and spreading infection, the response is "If they get sick they knew the risks." But where's the consideration for the innocent bystanders there? The condemnation of these grandmother-murderers? Why the double-standard?

>>12291006
>kek really? I find that hard to believe
"Why protests aren't as dangerous for spreading coronavirus as you might think" - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/18/anti-racism-protests-coronavirus-rise-covid-19-cases
"Many health officials are OK with police protests despite COVID-19" - https://www.denverpost.com/2020/06/15/coronavirus-protests-health-racism/
"Even In A Pandemic, WHO Believes That Public Protests Are Important" - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/08/872419850/even-in-a-pandemic-who-believes-that-public-protests-are-important
"Why protesting racism during a pandemic is important – an epidemiologist explains" - https://theconversation.com/why-protesting-racism-during-a-pandemic-is-important-an-epidemiologist-explains-140824

These were just the first few results in Google for "why protests are okay." You can find more for yourself if you like.

>>12291210
>"Why protests aren't as dangerous for spreading coronavirus as you might think" - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/18/anti-racism-protests-coronavirus-rise-covid-19-cases
And the new case numbers agreed with this. The states that opened up experienced a rise in cases, those that did not experienced no rise in cases despite the protests. The protests likely contributed little to the rise in cases.

>>12291194
>whataboutism
Other people being idiots does not rid you of responsibility.

>>12291210
Thanks, I guess, but none of those sources praises riots. Plus this >>12291220
We already knew being outside lowers infection risk significantly.

>>12290991
My point is that the response to the coronavirus is hypocritical and inconsistent. Reactions to the protests/riots and people going to grocery stores from the media are almost complete opposites of each other, as was posted by this anon >>12291210 . On one hand being clumped together during the pandemic is forbidden, but on the other hand the WHO says that it is okay as long as you're fighting the good fight. I would also like to include a quote from the third article he linked, "Being outdoors seems to reduce the risk of exposure because the virus can't survive long in sunlight and there's better air circulation, but it's no guarantee against infection. Health experts warn that some activities linked with the protests — such as riding public transportation to attend rallies or getting arrested and jailed indoors with others — could increase a person's risk of getting exposed to the virus." In the USA we hear about the coronavirus constantly and how we should be making efforts to reduce the spread. Yet the WHO said that the protests are important despite risks. So which is it?

>>12283837
What makes you think the rules are perfect and not a compromise that tries to balance the harm of the virus with the harm of mass unemployment?

>>12291242
Your quest for perfection makes the best the enemy of the good.

Let's be honest now. You're here for a political discussion and not a scientific one.

I like that it's become political though. Watching people refuse masks because they refuse to sacrifice their liberty from their own stinking breath on the altar of protecting human life. How noble. Such moral fortitude.

>>12291262
my lefty friends say everything is political, science very much included

And of course chuckling at the selfish hypocrisy of it is just the beginning. We get to watch some of them.go on to die slow painful deaths. That's the most rewarding bit. Seeing stupid people die in angony is the icing on the cake.

>>12291272
As if I care what your lefty friends say. It would seem you agree with them and are not interested in changing your mind. So go ahead. Be political about your own health. Choose freedom. Liberate your airways from the tyranny of masks. I'll be here laughing my ass off.

>>12291226
Try actually reading that post again, I'm pointing out a very specific hypocrisy in the post I quoted.

Tony Tenpenny died by the way. He chose politics.

Choose life, folks.

>>12291281
>selfish hypocrisy
What's hypocritical about saying "Everyone should decide the best safety measures and course of action for themselves in accordance with their personal risk assessment and risk tolerance"?

>>12291290
Nothing. Your invented quote doesn't reflect the things I'm laughing at. You argue in a very political way to be honest. I prefer scientific discussion.

https://youtu.be/RCxgqHqakXc

>I chose not to choose life. I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got politics.

>>12291284
Sorry Anon, you're seeing things.

>>12291253
Consistency should all of a sudden go out the window because it is impossible to be perfect?
Some people were denied the possibility of voluntarily assembling in groups on private property (even if it was invitation-only) because people assembling in numbers was a threat to everyone's health. On the other hand, densely packing common use public areas to the brim was not only allowed but even outright encouraged. If the second one is allowed to happen, the first will have zero impact and will instead just needlessly restrict the rights of those individuals. You say he is on the quest for an idealised concept of perfection, but to me this seems like you trying to dismiss criticisms of blatant favouritism by just throwing labels around.

>>12291194
Grandmothers still live longer than 20 years ago... Let's suppose, they are born to die.

>>12291306
>go to store without a mask but still keep safe distance from people
>"GRANDMA KILLER!"
>block up streets for with shoulder-to-shoulder crowds without masks on while people trying to walk home have to navigate through
>"RIGHTEOUS PROTESTERS DOING NOTHING WRONG!"

>>12291426
>"GRANDMA KILLER!"
Can you show me a video of someone being called that?

>>12291103
I'm not arguing against you, fucking dumbass. It's a matter of fact that most published research is nothing but bullshit, and the whole point of science is to doubt every sentence at any given moment.

>>12291114
The statement that "mask makes virus less virulent" is simply false, the mask has nothing to do with the severity of infection. You can say a lower infectious dose would be less virulent, but that's another fucking beast. You can't reduce statements to what that article said and expect people to not misinterpret them, which is often more dangerous than not be informed at all.

>>12291194
>Did they "know the risks well enough"?
Yes. If I see a big fucking mob of people i'd rather not fucking move from wherever I am. Even then, what's your point here? Such kind of fortuituous situation is completely unpredictable, and if you want to pursue responsibility for the ones that caused them nobody is stopping you from doing it, given you're the government and have the faculty to pursue them in the first place.

>people pitch a fit and say "
Well of course. They are concerned, and you know well how they behave, so what the fuck are you going to do about it? You think you can change the world? You think those people owe you? You're just looking for trouble, so I don't get why you come whining about it, it's exactly what you expect.

>Why the double-standard?
Don't know what double standard are you talking about. As I said, If you want to punish those people for risking the lives of others, I think it's fucking great, but what the fuck are you really going to do about it? What CAN you do about it?

>>12291242
>from the media
Well, blame the media for that. I don't see any coherence in trying to associate media with either the personal measures you take to protect yourself or any government strategy to mitigate the spread.

>The WHO
The WHO is a political institution that will change its standing depending on who offers them more money. The WHO is entirely responsible for the spread of the virus for not giving guidelines on how to make proper homemade masks, decontaminate fomites and avoid psychological stress. The WHO never issued any recommendation to stop passenger flights and such when the shit turned into an actual pandemic. It's each man for his own, and in this context it's completely delusional to pretend bad advice is a justification to not abide any measure at all.

Among retarded shit other governments did was to put people in jail indiscriminately for breaking lockdown when those people were protected by herd immunity ( The actual statistical term, not the media buzzword), in those countries cases increased immensely after such outrageous measures were dictated. Still this isn't a justification to remove all crowd control, and the fact that sunlight kills the shit, that the Infective dose is diluted in fresh air isn't guarantee that infected are not walking around leaving a cloud of virus around them.

Seriously dude. Do you have any experience in medicine/biology? If you haven't why do you assume you know more about those fields than others?

>>12291479
>The statement that "mask makes virus less virulent" is simply false
That wasn't your original quote. You said "reduce the severity of infection," and there's data that masks lead to a less severe infection due to lowering the infectious dose. Thus, masks can reduce the severity of the infection.

>>12291503
When you publish crap, who the fuck do you think you're publishing for? Who is NATURE publishing for? It's not other scientists or people who can accurately interpret the sentence, it's for fucking midwits, and such a generalization taken at face value can spark practices that end up creating more problems in the end, and you're gonna what, wait until another hundred thousand die from the new factor to confirm it's indeed dangerous?

I don't really know what the situation is/was like in the US, but I'll give you this example. Suppose I'm a midwit and take that shit article at face value. "MASK REDUCE THE SEVERITY OF INFECTION", alright, since I'm a midwit I will assume the virus creates permanent immunity and I won't worry about getting infected because if i get sick it will not be severe. Hmm... I hurt my thumb when I was closing the door, guess I'll go to the hospital where there's a fuckload of actual infected wheezing on the ground, not giving a fuck about the hugefuck amount of virus in the air that place has. I didn't really need to expose myself this way since my life wasn't at risk, but now that I did i got sick, sick enough to need a fucking tube, but hey, at least it wasn't as severe as it was SUPPOSED to get.

People are that dumb, so you better think twice about what you publish and what you read.

>>12291514
So it sounds like your contention isn't with the veracity of the quote, but with people being overconfident in the efficacy of masks and taking unnecessary risks because of it. I'm not sure I agree with that, for example, we have a bunch of college kids spreading it because they're having parties and not practicing social distancing or wearing masks. Those are the people we're dealing with. The people who wear masks are generally the people are more likely to be cautious in the first place, and the people who refuse to wear masks properly, or at all, are the ones who think the virus is a hoax or political fodder and feel immune already. Of course there's exceptions, but those have been my experiences.

>>12291281
Major Autism. People who’s are not afraid of a cold are absolute evil and reckless. Hey pencil neck people understand the risks and would rather enjoy their lives then live like livestock it’s not a question of good vs evil or smart vs dumb, I don’t blame a midwit like you for misunderstanding thought, it’s your destiny.

>>12291553
The failure from people who improperly wear masks is often used as justification by the idiots you mention. Of course, there are many problems here, one problem is the casual diffusion of half truths pointed out, but the main problem is what you say, which I have no idea what starts it in the first place. Both problems however are synergic, and proof of this is the misinformed way people treat the sweden situation and the concept of herd immunity. Absolutely nobody knows what herd immunity is, not even educated people from the involved fields seem to realize it's nothing more than a statistical phenomenon in which, upon an intervention, an exposed group of people is less likely to get infected from the inability of the agent to reach the intervened group. Media and political activists regard the term as "Doing nothing and it will eventually go away", which perhaps we should also name "Negligent immunity".

The question lingers. Why do Americans treat a fucking biological threat of possible terrorist origin as a political statement? Not implying it's actually a weapon, but if it were a weapon, and WHEN a weapon actually appears, americans will do nothing about it because of this precedent.

>>12284565
Has anyone performed a single experiment to confirm this?

>>12287922
Why is he suddenly healthy now?

>>12291613
Experiments are unethical and thanks to the nature of this disease we can't deconfirm long term organ damage. Shit like Chikungunya will leave antibodies fucking up your joints and causing pain from time to time. infections by streptococcus can leave immune complexes clogging up in the kidney and occluding nephrones, and so doing irreversible kidney damage. We don't know the extent of organ damage in acute disease and some countries have forbidden pathological study from these patients.

>>12291630
>Experiments are unethical
What? No they're not. There are plenty of ways to experiment without grafting additional limbs to a person's back.

>>12291588
Americans bombed two countries because someone knocked down a building.

>>12291644
*The American government* bombed two countries *because of oil* after *knocking down two buildings as justification*.

>>12291681
>because of oil
The US is actually a net energy exporter. They didn't need the oil. They went there because of Israel.

>>12283837
that girl is kinda cute

>>12291499
When did I say that I have more knowledge than people who dedicate their lives to medicine and biology? For the millionth time, I want the government, shop owners, and the media to piss off. They are hypocrites. The protestors and rioters got away by and large with spreading the virus among themselves and God knows who else once they went back home. Meanwhile I better make extra sure to wear a mask and stay 6ft away from everyone when I go and buy some fruits and vegetables, check out a library book, take out cash at the bank, and so on. All I want is some consistency. Since I'm not seeing any and am negatively affected by it, I am not happy about it.
>and in this context it's completely delusional to pretend bad advice is a justification to not abide any measure at all.
There are more than just a few people who listen to the WHO. It is not just some blog run by a couple of random guys in an apartment. Think of it as the FDA giving bad advice. They are supposed to have some authority on public health, yes? So when they say something, most people will end up following them. I'm not going to go too much into that as it has nothing to do with my point. I have had it with deviating from what I have been saying this whole time: the way the coronavirus is being handled is inconsistent.

>>12291846
I agree with you, however you should reexamine your position in all this. The management is inconsistent, yes, but what can you do about it? As an individual, what can you change? What is in your power? If there is something you can change, feel free to worry and do something about it. If you can't change it, do what you can. What else is there to be done. Protect yourself, protect your family, it's not hard. Wear glasses, faceshield is not needed that much. Spray alcohol on the mask, take a bath, wash groceries. That's all. Be careful, be consistent yourself.

>>12291856
I know what I have to do, but I do not want to talk about religion right now. This isn't the board for such a thing, anyway.

>>12287371
Yeah lets collapse the economy over less than 1% mortality rate

>>12291426
Chill novel, brethren.

>>12291479
>I'm not arguing against you, fucking dumbass. It's a matter of fact that most published research is nothing but bullshit, and the whole point of science is to doubt every sentence at any given moment.
>I'm not wrong although you posted counter-examples to my claim!
>I never argued against you anyway!

>doubt every sentence at any given moment.
This is very wrong.

how the fuck did this thread get over 200 replies

>>12291588
>Why do Americans treat a fucking biological threat of possible terrorist origin as a political statement?
We treat everything as a political statement, unfortunately. We're also a country of blame and little accountability. The USA has made a lot of mistakes in how the pandemic has been handled, and politicians from both sides are eager to point fingers rather than admit to anything (which could mean political suicide). Politics here are divisive, and it carries over to the general population.

>>12291871
But muh dead nurses

>>12292884
To be fair, nurses and doctors are fat and all they do is eat donuts and coffee on the breakroom. Source: me

It is a compromise, people are going to take their mask off to eat in any case, so rather than try to stop them they adapt the system around it.

Reminder that Vietnam has had only 1000 cases despite being the first hit, they experienced SARS before and everyone had masks and knew what to do.

>>12286414
>Just look at New Zealand
wow why can't normal continental countries be like this shitass island halfway across the world from anywhere else that can just control the coasts and airports

>>12293153
I hope more fat boomer nursoids and doctors die because it'll shoot my salary and opportunities way up
t. 25 y.o. doctor

>>12293176
>It is a compromise,
/thread

>>12288053
>1% is still 3x the death rate for the flu

The flu doesn't require comorbidity to go fatal.

>>12283837
No but it helps to drive home the point which is "This is stupid, you and I both know it, but you are going to do it anyway because you were told to do so. And you must submit."

>>12293320
What about when we exclude the cancer, car accident and gun shot cases?

>>12293371
>What about when we exclude the cancer, car accident and gun shot cases?
meant to >>12288053

>>12283837
For the same sort of reasons why we can still have BLM protests. People are not that serious about the virus. Most of those masks are completely ineffective against viruses. It's mostly a security theater, similar to TSA. It's for social compliance and politicians feeling a sense of purpose by telling others what to do more than anything else. People are being inconsequent. If we were really consistent we would be just as worried about touching door knobs, or even more concerned. But we are wearing the masks already so that's enough compliance signaling. People want to show they are being good citizens without actually going to a level that would be inconvenient. It's for show. If people would engage their brains and actually commit to all these nonsense measures, they would be wearing unpractical masks and rubber gloves. But because they rather signal their compliance than do the hard work and engage brain cells, we end up with nonsensical, paradoxical behaviors like these. Probably for similar reasons why people bought tons of toilet paper. I still don't get it. If you really fear for your life, is toilet paper really what you are concerned about? I'd just wipe with a cloth as my grandparents did during the war. People are idiots and it's more about feelings of safety, herd dynamics, and emotional gut reactions. None of this actually makes sense. But if you are compliant yourself, that brings with itself the added bonus that you can boss others around and be morally self-righteous, so the people who tend to already stick their noses into the lives of other people are particularly keen to comply.

>>12293320
>The flu doesn't require comorbidity to go fatal.
It usually does. No healthy young person should be dying from a respiratory disease.

>>12293903

>No healthy young person should be dying from a respiratory disease.

Having chronic ailments like tuberculosis, diabetes, and birth defect do not constitute the definition of a healthy young person.

>>12294069
>Having chronic ailments like tuberculosis, diabetes, and birth defect do not constitute the definition of a healthy young person.
Those would be comorbidities. Look at the comment I was responding to.

We're seeing uncountably many cases of healthy young people struggling hard with this shit virus. It's not like that happened with the flu.

>>12293786
>is toilet paper really what you are concerned about? I'd just wipe with a cloth as my grandparents did during the war.
I actually did run out of toilet paper for the first couple months thanks to all the hoarders. I just jumped in the shower after every poop and cleaned up.

>>12294114
>We're seeing uncountably many cases of healthy young people struggling hard with this shit virus.
Gonna need some sources on that, all healthy young people I've personally known who got it recovered in a few days and it was mostly just an inconvenience.

>>12294155
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects.html
>For example, young adults with COVID-19, including athletes, can also suffer from myocarditis. Severe heart damage has occurred in young, healthy people
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/covid-19-might-damage-the-hearts-of-even-young-healthy-patients
>Taken together, the studies, published in JAMA Cardiology, say that the disease can possible cause long-term damage to the heart even in patients who exhibited only mild symptoms from COVID-19.
>The effects of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) on the heart can possibly last a lifetime even in younger and healthier individuals
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-and-covid-19-younger-adults-are-at-risk-too
>Coronavirus infections requiring hospitalization are not only possible in younger adults, but the rate of these cases is higher now that the virus is spreading across other countries
>Data in a March 16, 2020, report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) are showing that younger adults are also getting COVID-19, and some are requiring hospitalization, even intensive care.

>>12294188
None of this suggests "uncountably many" cases of these things, only that they're possible and that instances of it are increasing as the virus infects more people (no shit).

>>12294092
>Those would be comorbidities

which throws a wrench in your unrealistic zero-tolerance policy for corona deaths

>>12291871
Nobody dies over a bit recession.

>>12294232
You're confused. Some other anon suggested the flu kills without comorbidities, which makes it worse than SARS-CoV-2. I suggested otherwise, stating that young healthy people (who wouldn't have comorbidities) don't usually die from the flu.

>>12294253
So more healthy young people die from COVID-19 than the flu?

>>12294281
No, healthy young people don't die from either one, it's just that people with comorbidities get their asses kicked by COVID-19, and not as much by the flu.

>>12294215
Yeah okay uncountable is a bit exaggerated. I couldn't count them.
Point stands. They exist, and they're not rare at all.

>>12294281
Yes.
>>12294285
>healthy young people don't die from either one
Wrong.
>people with comorbidities get their asses kicked by COVID-19, and not as much by the flu
True.

>>12294946
>Wrong.
Sure, it's just that ~90% dead are older than 70 and ~96% are older than 60, not even talking about younger than 30 people.

>>12294944
So it's actually "almost no cases"

>>12283988
Why would I order take out? If I'm not having a dining outside experience, I'd better cook at home.

>>12287069
No, since Sweden raped their population the least, it sucks the least. That would be true even if it had New York-tier deaths.

>>12295312
No.

>>12293786
Masks are the symbol, like star-of-david symbols on Jews in WWII.

>>12295382
Yes. Your "uncountable" claim was uncountable bullshit.

>>12290917
80% of the problem is population being completely raped and abused during the last year, so voluntarily wearing the symbol of that evil is by itself rape.
15% is the fact that this symbol is being forced on the population.
5% of the problem is that they don't even work (and are harmful).

>>12295410
So what? Already admitted. Your inference is just as bad and you keep on riding the
>nothing happens to young and healthy people
train which already crashed months ago.

>>12295448
Sure, months ago young healthy people started to die at comparable rates compared to old people? Oh no, they didn't, young people (healthy or not) are a small fraction of a percent of covid deaths.

I don't just eat without masks, but also try to visit places where the personnel mostly ignores the covidism rules.

>>12291588
>but if it were a weapon, and WHEN a weapon actually appears, americans will do nothing about it because of this precedent.
Have you heard about the boy who cried wolf?

>>12293176
>Reminder that Vietnam has had only 1000 cases despite being the first hit
Sure, also China totally stopped the corona, Russia invented the first corona vaccine ever and North Korea had no covid at all.

>>12295450
You claim
>almost no cases
I don't claim
>comparably many to old people
I wish people here could read.

>>12295579
Judging by the fact that only a few percents of deaths are under 60 and only a small fraction of percent are below 30, I am correct.
>I don't claim
You claimed the "uncountable" shitpost.

>ITT: bootlickers and onions boys jump through the strangest hoops to justify their complete surrender and obedience to a corrupt and bloated government
At least rona possibly won't exist next Wednesday, and definitely won't exist by January

>>12295750
Now that the government saw that it can rob, arrest and muzzle everyone, it will never surrender that option.

>>12295474
If something can go wrong it will go wrong eventually. A weapon will be made and it will be a success.

>>12295716
>You claimed the "uncountable" shitpost.
I already said that was exaggerated many posts ago. You keep bringing it up because you have zero arguments.
>Judging by the fact that only a few percents of deaths are under 60
Oh boi: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-and-covid-19-younger-adults-are-at-risk-too
>For example, the CDC report shows that as of March 16, 2020, 508 people were hospitalized for COVID-19 in the U.S. Of these, 38% were between 20 and 54 years old

>>12295857
That's a wonderful link, but how exactly does it contradict the " only a few percents of deaths are under 60 and only a small fraction of percent are below 30"?

>>12295857
>193 people were hospitalized between the ages of 20 and 54
And how many people in that age range were infected in total? Even if that total number is only 2,000 we're already dealing in single-digit percentages.

>>12288067
>Oh, got it, so if I ask you to not board the plane naked, I deserve to get punched because I should have left you alone?
Do you have penis, vagina or anus on your face?

>>12287922
Trump theoretically had some chance to die, since he is 74, but since he got healthy in a few days, that's another proof that covid is not a problem by itself.

>>12295982
>but since he got healthy in a few days, that's another proof that covid is not a problem by itself.
I'm sure receiving expensive, experimental treatments that aren't available to the majority of people had nothing to do with that, not to mention he was on oxygen when he was taken to the hospital, and clearly struggling not to cough a week later.

>>12288063
Go on, cite a source for either of those claims, this is a science board after all.
I’m also not sure what you’re implying. That coronavirus deaths are inflated relative to flu deaths because flu numbers exclude comorbidity?

>>12293377
Any reason you’re assuming we’re including those in “coronavirus caused deaths” besides “muh liberal elites want to inflate the numbers so of course they’re including them”
Or am i misunderstanding what you’re saying?

>>12294946
If you look at the total number of young deaths, it's extremely low for both COVID-19 and the flu, and I'd bet the majority had some underlying issues. So we can at least say that it's incredibly rare. That doesn't mean people can't have long term health issues as a result, they just don't die from the acute infection.

>>12295319
To support a local restaurant, and to enjoy a style of food you wouldn't normally prepare?

>>12295992
Judging by the fact that line 80% people on ventilators died, he was very lucky, or had some different oxygen.

>>12295994
*muh liberal elites want to to rob, rape and imprison the whole population forever. The fact that they are doing it now supports that theory.

>>12287926
>They wear masks to protect others.
No, they don't. A small minority wears them because they are scared of the virus and majority of wearers do that because they are threatened by the abusive government.
While we are at it, if you want to be protected, stay the fuck home.

>>12296022
I think had he been infected in March or April, he would have been screwed. The success rate for treatment has improved dramatically since that time.

>>12296037
In every other place in the world, people wear masks without government enforcing.

Why are mutts so retarded? Unironically, is it the water? What is it?

>>12296060
>In every other place in the world, people wear masks without government enforcing.
Mutt delusion.

>>12293201
Holy fucking based, all those old farts need to die so they make room for us. Im so tired of those 75 year old doctors running the place like its their little kingdom. Free us coronachan

>>12295885
>single-digit percentages.
And you don't think that's more than it should be?
>>12295883
I said many young and healthy people are struggling with this. You changed it to death.

>>12296099
"struggling" and "many" are such meaningless words that they can be used to show whatever.

>>12296037
>A small minority wears them because they are scared of the virus and majority of wearers do that because they are threatened by the abusive government.
Proof? So how many percent wear them to protect others in your gedankenexperiment?
>While we are at it, if you want to be protected, stay the fuck home.
>Hurrr durrr give up your freedom because I'm an idiot who doesn't understand prevention and group effort
No wonder the US is going down like flies currently.

>>12296099
>And you don't think that's more than it should be?
If you have a way to reduce them without any 2020 abuse (which didn't even work), do it.

>>12296106
You claimed they'd shrug it off. I claim the opposite. It's clear you're at a loss for arguments and switch to semantics now.

>>12296111
>(which didn't even work)
Look at the numbers. Masks and distancing clearly worked.

>>12296107
>Proof?
Here: Q.E.D.
>So how many percent wear them to protect others in your gedankenexperiment?
Close to zero. Those who use that wording understand that it is nonsense and use it to support the covid dictatorship (either because of some personal gain, or because of the pure sadism).
>Hurrr durrr give up your freedom
Wow, anon, now you finally understood that lockdowns were the absolutely insane abuse of human freedoms! But since you seem to be OK with them, practive what you preach.
By the way, don't you usually add "muh" qualifier to the freedom word?

>>12296115
I didn't say anything about "they" or "shrugging". But sure: a negligible amount of young healthy people die or develop anything serious because of the seasonal cold... I mean scary covid. You can surely bring the data which shows that a large percentage of them actually get that problem. But no, "some man somewhere got something on x-ray" is beyond anecdotical.

>>12296115
>Look at the numbers. Masks and distancing clearly worked.
Sure, I look at countries like USA + countries like France or Argentina who raped the population with lockdowns and masks, compare them to Sweden and see that they didn't, in fact, work.

>>12296137
Why did they work in Germany? Why did Sweden perform far worse than their Scandinavian neighbors who did lock down?

>>12296037
>and majority of wearers do that because they are threatened by the abusive government
lmao

>>12296144
Since these Scandinavian neighbours mostly ignored masks too, that's a good proof that masks are poison.
> Why did Sweden perform far worse
Since the only relevant factor is the amount of abuse government inflicted on population, Sweden would have preformed better than anyone even with New York-tier deaths. The fact that many lockdowners are doing worse is a cherry on the cake.

>>12296099
>And you don't think that's more than it should be?
What you're basically saying is that any nonzero number of hospitalizations in that age group is unacceptable and should make us very wary of COVID-19. What you fail to realize is that the flu sends young people to the hospital, too, it's just not covered on the news as religiously.
Pic related is a table of flu illnesses and hospitalizations from the 2017-2018 flu season (chosen to avoid any coincidence with COVID-19). The idea that NOBODY younger than 70 should be hospitalized or die from an illness like this is foolish and unrealistic.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018/archive.htm

>>12296148
If you live in a country where there are no fines or arrests for the lack of masks, and yet the population wears them, you will be correct, but in almost all countries that's not true.

>>12296162
>Since these Scandinavian neighbours mostly ignored masks too, that's a good proof that masks are poison.
So you're saying since their Scandinavian neighbors locked down, and Sweden didn't (with much worse results), that lock downs are the antidote?

>>12296169
>arrests for the lack of masks
holy shit the paranoid schizophrenia on this one

>>12296148
Not him, I'm in the US (Ohio) and failing to wear a mask indoors in public can result in a fine of up to $800 and jail time of up to 60 days for violating the governor's mandate. You don't think that's threatening?

>>12283919
>Having other people prepare your food during a pandemic.
As if your little bitch mask is going to stop that.

>>12296181
No, lockdowns are worse than any covid consequences, so in every country they are poison. And judging by the fact that many lockdowners got both lockdown and covid, they are also useless.

>>12296183
That's the masker for you: he want to imprison and rape you and then claim that you did it voluntarily.

>>12296202
No I actually hope your schizoretard country collapses and I never have to hear about flat earth, vaccines causing autism and now masks being totalitarian mind control ever again

>>12296196
>No, lockdowns are worse than any covid consequences
Like death? Death is a pretty big consequence.

>>12296232
You need to go and vote for Biden another 10 times.
>masks being totalitarian mind control
Jewish star bands Jews were forced to wear during WWII were not mind-controlling, yet were pretty harmful for them.

>>12296237
Some people think that complete destruction of human rights and freedoms is even worse than death, but for some freedoms are just "muh" thing. But if you are afraid to die from covid, you can clearly stay at home. That will reduce the probability to catch one to negligible values and that will be your free choice.

>>12296237
Lockdownst don't prevent dearh

>>12284389
Wealthier restaurant chains will survive all of this, and they would simply buy all of the smaller restaurants. These lockdowns are destroying small businesses and contributing to increasing wealth inequality, and the negative effects will last for generations.

>>12295319
is going to sit in a loud room where you on uncomfortable chairs to get your food part of the experience?

>>12296251
1. You're moving the goalposts now, and 2. since you were using Sweden's Scandinavian neighbors as an example that masks are evil, then we can also use them as an example of lock downs saving lives.

>>12296255
That's why I stopped to go to large restaurants and shops and now buy stuff only in smaller businesses. That's not even the main reason, the real reason is that I usually get no mask demands in smaller stores compared to the larger ones.

>>12296256
I can cook at home and that would be noticeably cheaper and more convenient for me. Sure, I can sometimes visit a well-decorated place to eat some nicely served exquisite dish, but if I must eat it at home from a box, there is no sense in doing that.

>>12296164
So not only are you anti-science your okay with children dying

Fuck you I'm still voting Biden. The lockdowns save lives CHILDREN'S LIVES

>>12296256
Unironically, yes, the atmosphere is a big selling point of restaurants. Not to mention that freshly-served food is a lot better than food that's been steaming in styrofoam boxes for 20 minutes while you drive it home.

>>12296258
But that goalpost is often moved by the covidists, so it shouldn't be overlooked too.
>since you were using Sweden's Scandinavian neighbors as an example that masks are evil, then we can also use them as an example of lock downs saving lives.
But it's you who initially claimed the latter to be countered with the former and also tried to compare with countries fitting your narrative (which isn't even true).

>>12296279
By the way, if we'll compare USA with Sweden, USA will have only 10-20% more older deaths, but several times more young deaths. Really shows what the lockdown was about.

>>12296258
Your arguments uses excess deaths. You particularly related the absence of lockdowns to that

Now kick the ball, bitch

>>12296279
>So not only are you anti-science
How am I anti-science for pointing out that the flu hospitalizes and kills people? It sounds like you only want to hear science that agrees with your preconceived notions.
>your okay with children dying
Saying I'm okay with it is disingenuous. But it sadly must be accepted as a fact of life in some cases. Again, all I pointed out is that the flu hospitalizes and kills people and we never took measures like this in any other flu season, you're the one jumping to all this emotionally-charged language and throwing a fit about statistical facts.

>>12296292
>By the way, if we'll compare
The Russian has returned!

>>12296304
Russia invented the first vaccine against covid! You need to take it, after all you believe China, so you must believe Russia too.

>>12296295
>Person claims lock downs kill
>Sweden still has excessive deaths with no lockdown
>Neighbors with lockdowns fared significantly better
>"NOOOOO, MASKS ARE EVIL!!!"

>>12296332
Did they? Sweden will probably have a bit more deaths than average/trend, but only because it had a local minimum of deaths last year, so these deaths were delayed to 2020.
>"NOOOOO, MASKS ARE EVIL!!!"
If we follow your logic that you can cherrypick countries, then yes, they are.

>>12296349
>If we follow your logic that you can cherrypick countries
You set the precedent, don't complain when others do the same.

>>12296356
I am ready to compare the full set of countries wearing no masks to the full set of countries wearing masks a lot.

>>12296361
>I am ready to compare the full set of countries wearing no masks to the full set of countries wearing masks a lot.
Where are you going to get those numbers? Polls? For example, do you trust Americans when 75% claim to always wear a mask, when 40% also claim to eat at restaurants? That's some neat magic trick, to get food into the mouth while always keeping it covered with a mask.

>>12296368
If we can't say anything about wearing masks, then you simply can't claim anything about their usefulness.

>>12293786
>Most of those masks are completely ineffective against viruses
This. The virus passes by masks as if they're not even present, and in the case of surgical masks, and most of the soft fabric masks you're seeing people wearing, the virus could easily just slip through the unsealed edges. There's less air resistance around the edges of the mask than through the mask, so that's where the air will go through. It's a good thing I have some proper N95 masks. The lockdowns are destroying our economies. We're losing wealth that has taken generations to create. People are having poor mental and physical health from not going out.

>>12296368
>75% claim to always wear a mask, when 40% also claim to eat at restaurants? That's some neat magic trick
When most people say they "always" wear a mask, they mean they always wear a mask in places where they are expected to. I don't get why people are so confused about this, do you take everything so completely literally that you think people who say they "always" wear a mask must also sleep and shower in masks?

>>12296379
So then it's not fair to say masks don't work when they're placing themselves in a setting where they can't keep a mask on, right? Especially since it's been shown that restaurants and bars are a far higher infection risk than other settings where masks can be kept on.

>do you take everything so completely literally that you think people who say they "always" wear a mask must also sleep and shower in masks?
Well, considering the question involved wearing a mask when leaving the home, I would say no.

>>12296392
>Especially since it's been shown that restaurants and bars are a far higher infection risk
...that rioting and burning the restaurants.

>>12296392
I'm not trying to argue mask efficacy, I'm just really annoyed by how many people keep trying to point out how "dishonest" people answering those polls were when there's a perfectly rational and simple explanation for how someone can answer those questions in that way while being completely truthful.

>>12296399
Good English and non sequitur.

>>12296402
Correct.

>>12296400
To be clear, I never meant to claim they're intentionally being dishonest. I think people are often not aware of their own behavior, and it leads to questionnaires for all kinds of studies giving misleading results. And specifically pertaining to this topic, I've seen many people claim that most Americans are wearing masks, and it's still spreading, which ignores the fact that many Americans are still placing themselves in high-risk situations where masks can't be kept on. It makes it difficult to draw any conclusions.

Don't visit them then.

>>12296281
>atmosphere is a big selling point

Man, normies are cringe.

>>12296124
Based sociopath.
>Close to zero
Lies.
>lockdowns were the absolutely insane abuse of human freedoms
There were no lockdowns.
You an stop pretending now.

>>12296131
>didn't say anything about "they" or "shrugging".
Yeah wow, you used different words.
>negligible amount of young healthy people die
Why are talking about deaths again? That wasn't the point. I said young healthy people struggle with this disease, which you doubted. You're consistently trying to move the theme to deaths because you have no arguments.
>>12296137
>cherrypicking
Not an argument. Also, Sweden performs like shit.

>>12296164
>whataboutism
Nobody cares. Would you argue we shouldn't mandate wearing seat belts because people die of sicknesses anyway?

>>12296899
Yes, covidists are huge sociopaths.
>There were no lockdowns.
Are we moving from victimblaming to gaslighting?

>>12296899
>I said young healthy people struggle with this disease
Which is such a non-claim that you should be absolutely ashamed to even use it, but it looks like you have no shame. Two people having a day-long fever is "struggling" and billion becoming permanently disabled is "struggling" too.
> You're consistently trying to move the theme to deaths
...because I was promised second black death and got seasonal cold with dystopia attached.

>>12296899
>Not an argument.
But it is.
>Also, Sweden performs like shit.
No, Sweden will be the best even it will get New York level of deaths (which it does not have).

>>12296899
How is it whataboutism to criticize the wide differences in reception over comparable viruses with similar outcomes?

>>12284554
Correct answer.

>>12287557
Go be a faggot somewhere else