/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12278940
>posts about a subject irrelevant to the board topic

>>12278940
>fellow linguists
>carrot

>>12278940
I've been thinking about this as well, super fascinating stuff. I just don't know what to make of it. It's like a product of wanting to quickly describe ideas with a particular tone of thought in the shortest way possible, and almost meant to goad the reader into a specific conclusion. I think we already have linguistic mechanisms in place for this, but not as readily digestible or as quickly expressed. It just allows people to verbeate ideas without using formal grammar while still getting the main theme across, almost like a bullet point of continuity. not a linguist btw. I like the implementation and hope to see it used professionally (or at least more commonly) in the future

>>12278940
/lit/ might be a good place to discuss this too, good thread though. Bump out of interest.

>>12278952
linguistics is a science

>>12279238
Studying how blacks say "were da ebt machine be at" as it relates to formal English is not a science, they're just dumb.

>>12279256
Agreed. Linguists do nothing but study the speech of black people Americans. That's absolutely all they do, so your conclusion is completely valid.

>>12279256
imagine letting black people live so rent free in your head that they're the first thing that comes to mind when you try to argue against something that covers so many distinct cultures, languages, and races
racists are so retarded

>>12279274
he mad

>>12279263
Yeah it's a pretty shitty major

>>12279256
How do you feel about the semicolon, as it relates to independent clauses?

>>12278940
>a new tense or mood
shut the fuck retard, you don't know the first thing about it
it works as italics or quotation marks, nothing special about it
linguistics is the new "omng i love dark holes" that physics was in the 2000's
kys red-dit faggot

>there are people on 4chan who think greentexting is a new dialect but refuse to recognize the validity of AAVE

Can we also talk about how 4chan is accelerating english’s annexation of other languages? For example terveisin from Finnish in the form of t.

t. Person who is interested in language

>>12278940
Greentext has many functions, I count five.
1. The first is of course as a direct quote of what another poster has said.
2. The second, coming from the first, is still a quotative one, in which you quote the action/consequence/implication of what the poster has commented. This is the implicative mood you're talking about.
This is your:
>implying
>being this retarded
>putting your eggs in the fridge
and it is written in an impersonal, infinitive mood noun phrase.
3. The third is actually two referential functions that are closely related, one born between (1) and (2), and the other coming straight from the second function:
3.1. Self-referential like
>my face when (referencing his own pic)
3.2. Evocative like
>that feel when (you know what feeling I'm referring to)
These are usually just a nominal phrase, that agrees grammatically with the infinitive mood sentence of (2).

>>12279707
4. The fourth, evolved either out of the second again, or as an pictureless citation to vary similar memes over time, is to list a series of commands in a recipe, citing the actions that must be done to an end.
>be autist
>collect autism bux
>???
>profit
These are written in the imperative mood, but the copula can be, and often is, omitted.
5. The fifth, growing out of the fourth, is a narrative one. As lists of commands got more and more complex, the ends to achieve more and more absurd, a sublanguage was born in which anons were fluent. These are the so called "greentext stories".
>be me
>(be) autist
>pee in bottle
>collect autism bux
>life's good
These are supposed to be written in the same imperative mood as the original, but as the narrative function evolved, the narration tended to switch from the imperative to a narrative first-person present tense. This is caused by the writer's brainlet being unable to process the grammar of greentexting and reverting to normal narration.
As a rule, it tends to omit copulas less often than (4), even when using the imperative mood, as shown by the distinctive initial ">be me"
It's also the most copious usage of greentext, mixing in features from the other functions as well, which I guess is how it managed to stay alive for so long.

Make of this what you will.

>>12279709
Actually, thinking about it, the mechanism of copula omission between functions (4) and (5) are similar.
The copula is not omitted if it introduces a necessary premise, whether it is for the end to be achieved (4) or for the story to make sense (5).
>be me
>be rich
>invest in bitcoin
>become poor
>mfw
The copula is omitted if it has a descriptive function, either of a consequence of the actions (4) or for narrative purposes (5).
>be me
>autist

>>12278990
>>12279622
>>12279707
>>12279709
>>12279731
you could literally write an entire dissertation or thesis on this i.e. the way 4chan has chaotically evolved written language and discussion.

>>12279762
For me, it's 'for me, it's...' and copying the entire whole page instead of quoting

>>12279707
>Greentext has many functions, I count five.
>1. The first is of course as a direct quote of what another poster has said.
t. zoomer who has only ever used gmail

>>12278940
It can be just a general irreal grammatical mood which covers one or more moods

>>12279762
Tbh it's perfect to show how languages develop more quickly. Besides memes, English is correcting itself for necessary moods

>>12279256
>Immediately think of Black people when linguistics is brought up
Either bait or unironically mentally ill, linguistics is incredibly interesting.

>>12279835
Because 4chan adopted the symbol ">" for quotation from Usenet, quotation is not a function of greentext? Are you retarded or just wanted to show off your epic old Internet knowledge?

>>12279387
>newfag didn't lurk for a year before posting
Lurk moar.

Which should I minor in, Linguistics or Philosophy? I know neither will affect me but I find both equally interesting and don't know which I should minor in.

>>12279954
I'm just critiquing that post in relation to the op
>Has anyone realized that 4chan essentially invented a completely novel language tense/mood
>Greentext has many functions, I count five.
1. The first is of course as a direct quote of what another poster has said.
While it is true that greentext has this function, 4chan didn't invent it, and so I didn't like having it on that list.

p.s. I'm 21, I'm just retarded, not old

>>12279966
That's fair.

>>12279956
" "newfag didn't lurk for a year before posting" "
"Lurk moar."
"mfw"

>>12279256
And some say that this Anon finally realized, he had been the nigger the whole time.

>>12278952
>science is not science
Hold still, anon, while we apply the high voltage probes!

>>12279707
1b. The sarcastic summary in the form of a faux quote. I have never seen it outside 4ch.

>>12279622
I think it is mostly Finnish and a touch of Japanese. Then countries and people are summarised as burgers, bongs etc.

>>12279707
>>12279709
What would this fall under? It's kind of like a silly caricature of what someone is saying, so it feels close to (1) and (2).

soijak 1834.jpg
>NOOOOOOO YOU CANT JUST COOF ON RANDOM PEOPLERINOS YOU'LL SPREAD COVID

>>12279238
Nah linguistics is just math.

>>12278940
this is actually interesting, but if you weren't a /sci/ newfag you'd know there's no linguists here

>>12280399
There's me but I'm a closeted linguist. You can find me in threads about set theory despairing at the fact that a linguist knows more about mathematics than all the retards on this board.

>>12280421

>he unironically represents himself as being knowledgeable about mathematics because he knows set theory

>>12279238
>a science

>>12278940
Anon this is a linguistic topic in English not about AAVE, so no linguist in 2020 cares.
>t. linguistics grad student

>>12279238
can you provide an example of the kind of hypothesis a linguist tests either experimentally or statistically?

One interesting thing about 4chan speak is how it has created a suffix to discuss people or groups with a shared trait - "fag". Tripfags, furfags, Applefags, EUfags, and so on would be examples.

>>12278940
here in poland greentext is used in advertisements that target the youth

>>12279238
In the same way Marxism is a science
>t. Karl Popper

>>12280429
Not quite. I represent people here as retarded because they don't know basic set theory.

>>12279731
>>be me
This 9gag idiocy needs to die. No good greentext ever started with ">be me". No other pleonasm is a better retard detector.

>>12280421
>>12280473
based, most scifags couldn't solve the most basic calculus problem

>>12280463
please be joking, who would take that shit seriously?

>>12279426
Greentexting is unironically more complex than any feature in AAV"E"

>>12278940
>
>>>/his/ is more your style, non-objective """scientist"""

>>12279707
>>12279709
>>12279731
Might reference this in the future, so there you go

>>12278940
>4chan essentially invented
shit like this has existed longer than 4chan

You know what? this IS interesting.
It's an interesting example of how a linguistic concept can pop up and everyone understands how it's suppose to be used without actually codifying it, so to speak.

>Make a statement
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>Make a statement about statement
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>Make a statement about statement of statement
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>Make a statement about statement of statement of statement
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>Make a statement about statement of statement of statement of statement
> >
> > > >

>>12281608
Well, it does take some time to funny understand all usecases.

>>12279762
Cringe and nerdpilled

>>12278940
is this symbol associated with linguistics

4chan's lasting cultural influences are the proliferation of the Internet meme and the initial jumpstart of Minecraft.

Nothing else has really made it to the mainstream, aside from maybe the nerd archetype becoming accepted, though it's hard to separate that from the general rise of tech in the professional & consumerist world.

>>12278940
I find it extremely useful when discussing ideas. You just synthetize(correctly, hopefully) the idea of the other side and you rebuke or accept them

Very useful

>>12279256
kek

>>12278940
>be me
>never browse sci
>literal greentext expert
>Written entire books of greentext over the years

Its a peer to peer personal storytelling format, akin to how you would sit around a campfire and tell personal experiences to one another.

i believe early writing was too professional due to general complexity in getting something printed or written and greentext is a naturaol result of easy throwaway text based communication.

>>12282042
>akin to how you would sit around a campfire and tell personal experiences to one another.
Yeah I can totally imagine you greentexting your autist companions at a campfire irl.

>>12278940
One of the things I like about Hungarian is that the grammar feels like greentext.

>>12282051
>autist companions at a campfire irl
Now that is what I call comfy!

I rekon its the autist mindset. It makes everything sequential like code
>be me
>mum comes home from groceries
>no tendies
>REEEE

>>12279426
The scientific term is "ebonics" bigot.

>>12282201
Either your sequential code is in dire need of a severe debugger, or I am lacking sufficient autism to understand what you mean.

>>12282326
Found him!

>>12281598
Direct quotes like this was seen in Usenet News decades ago. The other forms of greentext listed above I have never seen outside 4ch. Got any examples?

>>12280454
its intersting how this prevaling and ecstatic sentiment of "look look <insert language> is legitimate as a language because it follows our complex and rich systems of phonology, morphology and syntax" is quickly colliding with the "empowerment model of reasearch" that seeks to prioritize a speakers own perception and use of their language. It follows that many of the most endangered languages are from speakers that live in places where "euro-centric conceptions of science" are unknown or even rejected at times. So by trying to legitimize them as important they are simultaneously forcing them into a western philosophy of struturalism that is implied in any modern linguistic theory, therefore breaking the "empowerment model of research". This whole thing is a mess, I just want to grill some brugers.

>>12278940
>4chan essentially invented
Lol, indented quoting on forums was used over a decade before 4chan was created.

>>12278940
I think what we're seeing with greentexting is a form of "exaggerated quotation" at its core, even greentext stories use a style that is mocking of traditional past tense stories. The most common use, replying to a poster with a warped summation of what he had posted (>be gay) is just a clever abuse of quoting that has happened in casual literature and movies and real life for a long time. My parents in particular used to reply back to us what we said but in a mocking tone and simplified to make us sound dumb if we were being rude to them. Sometimes they would just straight up paraphrase our actions. God I hate those smug assholes.

>>12278940
English has contained an implicit subjunctive mood for ever, it's just not denotative. Implications™ using ">" on 4chan isn't really a novel mood. I'd argue is a novel narrative format, at most.

>>12279762
>inb4 someone unironically does that with plebbit

Who am I kidding, probably already has been done several times over.

This should be moved to /his/, really. Interesting nonetheless.

>>12282051
>at campfire
>story telling time
>start with 'be me'
>only short sentences with pauses between them
>story ends with walking the dinosaur

>>12284002
Not sure you will get an in depth discussion over there.

>>12279426
AAVE, or "nigbabble" as I like to call it, is entirely invalid because it's not a human language.

>>12281608
>>12281842
Exactly. The entire grammatical structure of greentexting is, in of itself, a shobboleth to posting on 4chan. If you don't do it right, you are ousted and mocked for being an newfag.

You are incentive to lurk in order to understand the structure to a fluent level, before beginning to interact yourself.

>>12286556
>being an newfag.
Nice touch, comrade.

>>12278940
its just a more generalized quote covering events as well as speech

>>12286607
:^)

>>12279256
t. 19 year old community college engineering major

Logic, linguistics, and theoretical computer science are basically a single field. Historically, there wasn't really any distinction between these subjects until the 1940s. Even today, there is still a large degree of dialogue between these fields - at least with respect to certain topics and issues. For example, theoretical computer scientists and linguists are both very interested in the development of intensional type theories. Another, completely different area in which there is a lot of overlap between linguists and computer scientists is in knowledge representation and formal reasoning. For example, epistemic logic has become a hot topic in recent years amongst both computer scientists and linguists.

>>12279238
Can you fucking nerds not argue about what science is for one thread?
Oonga boonga topic have no number? Not real big brain pursuit!

>>12280164
this would be self referential I think. Bur it can be posted without greentext anyways, so I dont think it is necessarily greentext.

>>12286837
>epistemic logic has become a hot topic in recent years amongst both computer scientists and linguists

the quasi-merging of these fields that happened after the 1940s will probably divide again because of these epistemic logic issues. As far as I know, most of the field of pragmatics remains unsolved, and instead of trying to replicate the little we do know about this with computers, a different approach is being taken, usually involving the massive feeding of contextual data, although I hardly know the specifics, point is that the way we deal with implications, presupposition, refrence, etc as humans can not be so easily implemented into logical systems like the other linguistic sub fields.

>>12280877
>>12282323
>>12286529
I remember I used to think like this when I was an edgy teenager, but I stopped as soon as I learned about actual linguistics and I realize now that I was completely wrong for saying these kinds of things. /pol/ doesn't know fuckall about linguistics.

>>12287053
Ooga booga bix nood to you too, Deshawnrius.

>>12279256
Bruh

>>12287053
>>12280877
>>12286529

Rent free, poltards never fail to amuse

>>12287084
Cope, nigger

>>12286529
What criteria do human languages have that AAVE fails to meet?

>>12279238
Linguistics is applied physics

>>12287217
Human languages are spoken by humans. AAVE is spoken by blacks.

>>12278940
Yes, I've made threads on /lit/ about it once or twice, but never got many replies.

I also find it absolutely amazing.
Yes I'm sure variants of this have occured in some way in some other places, but it's probably save to say that they were never a genre and I unironically think it's one of the more interesting innovations in human culture in the last decade.
This sounds like an out of proportion claim at face value, but I mean there weren't many other cultural inventions I guess.

Maybe cancel culture is a revival of something in a new internet-fused form, but it's not positive and witch hunting was always around.
I'm sure there was some music genre innovations, but those happen more frequently and thus also don't leave me as impressed.

>>12279707
>>12279709
>>12279731
The most interesting one for me is 2., but you actually missed to point out variants of it, which deserves another bullet point.
Namely the quote which is not an actual quote but a satirical transscription which is still first person.

E.g. someone says "to lose weight, eat at 400 cals deficit every day" and you reply with
>slowly starve yourself to death
As if that was the advice given.

This is genuinely one of the most interesting threads I've seen in a while

Don't forget inb4ing:
>inb4 somebody calls me a fag

>>12287328
Fag

>>12287302
>satirical transscription
That was mentioned earlier: >>12279990
>1b. The sarcastic summary in the form of a faux quote. I have never seen it outside 4ch.

>>12287252
What criteria do humans have that blacks fail to meet?

>>12287415
Intelligence, abstract reasoning, thinking about the future, understanding consequences, emotional maturity, ethical understanding, empathy, sympathy, altruism.

Just to name a few.

>>12280457
>can you provide an example of the kind of hypothesis a linguist tests either experimentally or statistically?
Are irregular verbs used to shorten common verbs to speed up communication?
>Are irregular verbs actually shorter to say?
>Do irregular verbs decrease in length over time?
>Are irregular verbs common verbs?

>>12287429
But anon, you lack all of those qualities

>>12287444
Checked; your trips have bested me, and I am forced to concede.

which mode is this?

>>12287494
3.2.

>>12278940
/sci/ is forbidden from discussing linguistics. Even though it's a science, it's better left to the humanities because every other STEMlord out there thinks they're a linguistics prodigy because they are familiar with language.

>>12287574
I've studied programming which is basically the same thing.

>>12287694
lisp or you're an idiot

>>12287494
>>12287503
It kind of reminds me of darmokposting

>>12287694
you either studied Latin/Greek or you never studied Linguistics

>be me
>year is 2035
>highschool
>learning about internet history in English class
>4chan gets brought up
>have to discuss how greentexts work
>have to do a project where we all make greentexts
>mfw autism on 4chan is studied in school

>>12288462
You have to be 18 or older to post here.

>>12278940 this site is not for underages, kid
it was never new, it has been used in first forums for quoting another post

>>12288531
b-but i'll be by then, mister.

>>12279762
first time in my life i understand this picture

>>12287494
Der Selektiv, würde ich mal vermuten.

>>12287429
uhhh sure buddy

>>12288850
ah, yes, a man of culture...

>>12288850
>>12289408
Right. How about a hint?