/sci/ - Science & Math

women don't go into lucrative careers where they don't need them

>>12276898
India fucks up the statistics, but hey if this is true then Conservatives shouldn't mind Gender Equality right?

>>12276898
Braindead job roles offering women the same amount of money, perks and benefits as complicated roles

>>12276898
>AP CS
ok but what are the numbers for AP bio? it was literally all female at my school for multiple years. AP CS is not science, piss easy, and attracts neckbearded anime fans and gaymers. Show me how many girls manage to get 5s on the hard exams.

>Women are strange
>Women are not like us
>Maybe they come from another planet
>
>
Boring and have sex

>>12276961
That's the same for men nigger, it's just men have a greater inclination on average for engineering and math I'd wager
>>12276898
The oppressed countries they're talking about I'm fairly certain are the Middle East, where many more women go into STEM
>article is from two years ago
sage

>>12276940
correct.
sorry pajeet no more hb1
>>12276898
women do what they want to
men do what they need to.
>>12277055
no thanks, stinky.
women are stinky
STINKY

>>12276898
consider the radical notion that women are not men.

>>12276898
Why go into stem when you can sell pics of your ass and tits for $200,000 year?

>>12276975
That's something i've been thinkinh about, the fact that biology related subjects are filled with women should disprove the theory that men are naturally more intrerested in things and women in people

>>12277351
They're filled with women who want to be doctors or veterinarians. It's entirely motivated by empathetic interpersonal work.

>>12276898
The fact that women need their own chess leagues is all the evidence you should need that male and female cognition is, on the whole, different

>>12277360

that'sthejoke

Fucking aspies.

>>12277362
It's to encourage them to play, since they are vastly outnumbered by men you'll find very few who can compete at the highest skill levels, it's the same for esports that have female only leagues

>>12276898
"Why does anyone think science is a good job?
The average trajectory for a successful scientist is the following:
* age 18-22: paying high tuition fees at an undergraduate college
* age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month
* age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year
* age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year
* age 44: with (if lucky) young children at home, fired by the university ("denied tenure" is the more polite term for the folks that universities discard), begins searching for a job in a market where employers primarily wish to hire folks in their early 30s
This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn't quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a 'second rate has-been' label on his forehead."
http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

>>12277594
LOL fuck that's depressing. i love reality.

>>12276898
Women want to have babies and take care of them.

>>12277594
Age 18-19: already have an associated degree, finish uni at 19, paid for by the college.
Age 19-22: intern at family friend's company paid good
Age 23-30: get a full time job making six figures in industry
Age 31-35: make a business with a few freinds, sell, be rich and keep investing to increase my money
Age 36-43: enjoy my time with my family. Hand raise my children and home stead. Live an extremely healthy and rich life
Age 44+: Get my kids tutors and teach them high level subjects. Teach them about life. Enjoy my time with them and my forge in wife because westoid femoids aren't wroth it. When my kids head off on their journey I spend time studying, researching, and living a cozy life.
boot up my computer. see my 4chins bookmark. delete it. mutter: thanks for nothing faggots.

>>12277351
Biology is the most life-oriented science of all. Women are interested in people, life, emotions, etc

>>12276940
>Gender Equality
What's being pushed in the western world is only equality in name but absolutely not in execution.

>>12277594
Forgetting the industry roles after PhD. They make up the majority of people who in those fields.

>>12277594
author of the article is a low intellectual gerbil desu

>>12277279
Please take down this VERY anti Semitic post

>>12276898
Those fields are logic based, and your headline already went from "gender equality" to "empowering women"

>>12277644
Isn't it still about systems and abstractions?

>>12276940
>but hey if this is true then Conservatives shouldn't mind Gender Equality right?
wat

>>12276898
Two different conceptualizations of equality; equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. The truth is that women are built differently than men, not only physically, but also mentally. They are made to tackle completely different tasks than men. Thus women tend, when given the choice, to live completely different lives than men.

Some people, however, have a very simple understanding of equality, and think unless everything is literally 50/50, then it's somehow discrimination. That mindset leads to women being forced to get jobs that don't really want, all in the name of "equality".

It's really a debate between libertarianism and neo-marxism. One wants people to be treated as individuals that can make their own choices, while the other wants to sculpt society so that they can create the illusion of equality according to their understanding of it.

I like how everyone in this thread is trying to provide long summaries explaining why gender equality = less women in STEM when >>12277283 summed it up in one sentence.

More specifically, STEM is a golden ticket in countries where financial opportunities are far and few between. To a woman in a third world country who desires of something more than being baby maker for some dirty peasant/merchant STEM is the best safe guard they can obtain. Because at that point their parents, culture and society can hardly touch them anymore because they belong to the intelligentsia/ government now.

Meanwhile in first world countries where female independence is usually already achieved. Taking refuge in STEM isn't needed and the desire just to be independent/ make money can be achieved by an e-thot.

>>12276940
>India fucks up the statistics, but hey if this is true then Conservatives shouldn't mind Gender Equality right?
> muh gender equality
This is false, anons. It's about giving privileges to women.
As a person who finished the STEM route, let me tell you this, perhaps 10% of women I've encountered in STEM actually had the capability to think outside the lecture notes rather than mindlessly copy things

>>12276898
hypergamy and evolution. A woman has almost no motivation to study a hard field and wageslave like a man when she can get a rich chad 10 years older than her that can directly provide.

>>12277283
this, and sadly this is amplified by modern technology that we white men invented. Sad isn't it? The creation causes the destruction of the creator.

>>12276898
Not correlated

There’s less salmon in the ocean
And there’s less women in stem
Does that mean...?

>>12276940
Equal opportunity and equal outcomes aren't the same thing.

>>12278067

It isn't the technology, it's the people. Tell the simps to stop giving money to e-thots.

>>12276940
Its not just India, women are more likely to go into STEM in Algeria than Sweden. Here's my take: in the less equal countries, living standards are shittier. Women go into STEM to make more money. They are less likely to have support from the state or a man that treats them well. In liberal countries, life is easier. Women are free to choose what they want. And if you have talked to women and men about what they value in a career, the women's answers will be more about doing what they want to do, and the men's answers will be about money. People are upset there are less women in STEM, but women are given the choice, and choose non-STEM careers. It's literally what they wanted and people REEEEing about it have been female liberal arts majors everytime I've seen it being talked about.

>>12277085
>That's the same for men nigger, it's just men have a greater inclination on average for engineering and math I'd wager

>be woman
>whore yourself out
>start making 100k/month just because you have a pussy
>be man
>have to work your ass off just to get a house that youll later lose to some gold digging whore
>these are both the same

>Not correlated
How do you know that?

>>12276898
Why get into stem and not into the construction sites? Do they know that in third world countries women dominate everything and anything in universities, where's the outcry?

>>12276898
A scientific explanation? none of these half-ass guesses are scientific. If you didn't find a scientific explanation in the article then a sociologist needs to do a study on these statistics. Until then, the most scientific explanation is, "Maybe it isn't true".

>>12277594
thay pay me to do research which is what i love doing

>>12277644
i study biology. th girls all go into ethology and zoology and things tahe envolve working with animals. or they drop out. or study plants. guys go into biocem, genetics, cellular biology etc.
there are exeptions but they are few and far between

>>12276940
conservatives from year 1804? women have had equal rights under the law for at least a century stupid cunt

>>12278264
Its biological urge thats exacerbated because of technology. 100 years ago mean stayed on ships while woman went into lifeboats, today they give whores their income. All because eggs+wombs are more valuable than sperm, from evolutionary standpoint.

Governments should outlaw simping in the same way heroin consumption is prohibited, they both take advantage of weak people using their worst impulses

>>12278537
Even badder bait then my post was.

>>12276898
dat ice look like lucien lechance lmao

>>12277675
>author of the article is a low intellectua
I imagine at least his grammar is better than yours doofus

>>12277275
It H-1b you dumb fuck

>>12276898
Yes, but that doesn't mean we know it yet.

>>12278541
>Governments should outlaw simping
Why would a feminist government ever outlaw something that benefits women at the expense of low status men?
It's far more likely the low status men eventually realize no matter how hard they simp they have nothing to show for it so they go on an incel rampage and the govt implements bachelor laws preventing bachelors from having access to firearms.

>>12276898
Because they made their point officially in law and policy so they go back to women things.

A comfort in acknowledgment is what they wanted. Proving their capabilities; 'look we can STEM too you know'.

>>12278285
nice nitpicked anecdotal nonargument, nigger. The fact is that there are low effort jobs that pay bank available to both genders.
>my tutor job pays $16 an hour
>tutoring consists of looking up integrals on integral calculator
see how easy that was?

>>12277909
>perhaps 10% of women I've encountered in STEM actually had the capability to think outside the lecture notes rather than mindlessly copy things
I've noticed this too in school. Even though there were many girls with top marks and an even distribution of men and women in Advanced Placement, they only memorize the content but can't think critically about it.

>>12277380
>since they are vastly outnumbered by men you'll find very few who can compete
>very few who can
Maybe your post is the question and the one who you responded to is the answer
amazing job, sherlock

>>12276898
>strange paradox
I hate when they do this for anything that doesn't fit the woke narrative of human relations.

>>12277594
End of my PhD, basically this. Going into industry.
>>12278519
That's called "taking advantage of slave labor because we don't even have HR"
Science loooooves to pretend its some holier than though progressive ivory tower institution, but if you implemented even the most basic labor laws the entire system would crash and burn. And I'm serious about that. It's a joke of a bullshit heirarchy that allows sexual assault and overworked slave labor as normal par-the-course under a guise of "you do it for love not money", which is horseshit in its entirety. You're being duped if you believe that in any fiber of your body.

>>12279833
that makes sense. i might love what i do, but i want to make a living wage. i want to be payed for the shitton of work i do.

>>12280056
>i might love what i do, but i want to make a living wage. i want to be payed for the shitton of work i do.
Correct attitude. You can love what you do whole-heartedly, and I do love science- but you should be payed what you're worth. Currently industry, you know private companies that do their best to keep wages as low as possible for more profit, think you're worth 2-3x as much as academia pays (I'm doubling my pay moving into industry vs what I'd get from a postdoc). Which should say something about your worth.

>>12276898
Do some people actually consider CS a part of STEM?

>>12280161
I do

>>12279745
Kek. All so they don't have to admit they were wrong.

>>12276898
Because science is marketed for boys in all the countries where the people that make such studies cherry pick their data points.

>>12276898
Yes.

>>12280161
It's part of STEMoney

>>12280161
the based CHAD part

>>12277275
>no more hb1
wait until january 21

>>12276898
Real talk no amount of gender equality will change institutions that are rigid and boomer filled as fuck. What society is versus what corporate/academic culture differs a fuckton in principles and beliefs.

It's how you have in Japan the government/citizens trying to push better and healthier work hours, more family-friendly policies to promote fertility, changes in work culture so it's less hostile to women but it's just not really working when said public and private entities drag their feet or bitch/moan. Same can be said for a lot of stuff in the west.

>>12281191
I've met older folk who on one hand acknowledge that yes young people want families and have a life and want to do stuff with their kids when they come home instead of just running to the coach and watch sports, women can be career driven and optionally have families but there are others who DESPITE saying and being about choice often punish people who don't fit what an ideal man or woman can be.

>>12279833
>Science loooooves to pretend its some holier than though progressive ivory tower institution, but if you implemented even the most basic labor laws the entire system would crash and burn.

It's basically the apprenticeship system for trades and professions which is as fuck old, but worse in every way. Yeah as an apprentice you start off low you can say but you start early and it at least scales nicely in a way one can plan around it financially but holy shit doing a PhD financially is a total mess.

My bro-in-law is doing one and luckily my sister is giving him a stable foundation financially, but things are kinda on hold until he finishes it and having your younger spouse (who graduated HS a year early so she's extra young) with her bachelor's in almost the same area you be the breadwinner with a 6 figure salary kinda hurts anyone's ego.

>>12276898
Gilded cage syndrome in the societal construct, women get social affordances in exchange for decreased freedom of lifestyle. Until women drop the social affordances they’re blind to, they cannot resolve this contradiction. And that assumes there is truly widespread dissatisfaction with the gendered exchange there which I haven’t seen full reason for. Most just want the option on the table even if they don’t use it often, if only for the 20% who do. That being said that dynamic probably changes if tech really does hit the point reproduction become technologically simulated. Though that’ll be centuries since many women would be against having tech displace biological roles just as some men resent how robots have been replacing them in wars and work. Either way at that point humans aren’t humans and basically a different species anyways.

>>12281361
Now if you tell a feminist that, well some probably would point to all the rape and shit but it’s like fuck man, do you consider rape worse than death since men die for the rich all the time and corporations wanna turn them into glue once they can replace them with robots. So the whining about sex bots falls on deaf ears as the reality is the rich if they could would replace us all with robots as they just see people as tools they use for their own self interest. When people talk of humans being obsolete, they just mean the rich will induce famines when they feel they can get away with it and the only reason women thought they were safe was the same reason men had delusions of exceptionalism, because the reality it can all be replaced by automata that better serve their masters than even the most servile bootlicker ever is too soulless and horrific to consider.

>>12281371
STEM people in that regard got scammed as well the push for STEM majors was to dilute people in those fields for lowering wages and making you interchangeable. It’s why there even is a strong separation of STEM from other fields of study like history, economics and civics- this specialization allows you to be an easier to use tool for the rich they’ll dispose of once you automate yourself away should someone else not do it first.

>>12279745
What narrative?

>>12278550
>badder

>>12277594
this depresses me horribly

>>12276898
STEM is studied predominately by compsci wageslaves and women are better than this
Hope this helps

>>12276898
in more developed countries, women are not forced to work hard jobs to survive so they can choose something more fitting to them - like for example all the jobs considered a femlale job - like a nurse
They did experiments with babies that showed how female babies prefer pictures with faces while male babies prefer pictures with systems or trains and shit
Majority of women have this biological reason to be more interested in other shit than STEM - same reason why men are more interested in STEM than lets say being a nurse
Now this is just one explanation the truth probably has more reasons but i think this is the main factor

>>12276898
It's not the gender equality that's causing it. Also, none of you mentally ill incels would bother with stem either if women were so retarded as to set you up for life by buying your feet pics

>>12277594
Ngl this makes me want to kms. If you aren’t a 160iq autistic genius, your choices after undergrad are being underpaid slave to academia or being a button pusher for some exploitative corporate entity. JUST

>>12277594
Bullshit.

>>12283074
Somehow there are still people who make it further and get a higher position.

>>12281376
This doesn't make sense because of the push for STEAM.

Through blind recruitment they found that men are discriminated against in the hiring process.

>>12283135
If you're a female, pick a female dominated field and you won't be discriminated against. End of story.

>>12283155
Nobody seems to care that men are looked down for becoming nurses.

Honestly why should women get the few safe & high paying jobs when it's exclusivity men who do the dangerous jobs, or unpleasant jobs like sewage tank pumping?

>>12283234
I wouldn't worry too much. They won't get those jobs anyway.
>t. banking sector

>>12283074
>or being a button pusher for some exploitative corporate
Get a fucking job you hippie bum!

>>12281361
>Most just want the option on the table even if they don’t use it often
The most cucked dude I met was helping his wife get her degree before she became a stay at home mom and never work in her life.

Just so she had the option of ditching him.

>>12281808
In this case, "women aren't in stem because they are oppressed by the patriarchy. So if they have more freedom of choice we should see more women in stem"

thus women getting more freedom and programs while choosing STEM less is a paradox to them as they refuse to reevaluate their original premise based on woke ideology

>>12276898
If you could make six figures by posting pictures of your rear-end would you have studied STEM?

>>12277594
Damn does it really take eight years for a graduate degree? I guess it depends. It really does seem like people put too much trust in the various systems that they participate in. Whether it's academia or their career path. They think if they just work really hard and do everything asked of them, they will be rewarded with the top positions and salaries. It doesn't seem to work that way, you have to work outside of the system if you want to beat it, or just get lucky.

>>12283155
Or maybe just not give a shit what field someone wants to go into?

>>12276898
Yeah it's called homeostasis bro

>>12278285
>that youll later lose to some gold digging whore
that's your fault for being a simp