/sci/ - Science & Math

All beings have consciousness. Incuding plants and microbes. Consciousness is not what separates human from other life form.

>>12269293
even ants pass the mirror test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx9La4nGlnA

>>12269314
This
Plants just exist on a different time scale to humans

>>12269293
he knew to grab them boobas what do you think incel?

>>12269339
just imagine your girlfriend getting C H I M P E D

>>1226929

pongo'd

>>12269293

Orangutan have passed the mirror test which is the standard for consciousness unless you define it as something else

>>12269345
only a matter of time before bestiality starts featuring on xvideos, I give it 15 years

Yes but only of expensive sneakers

>>12269460
mirror test is bullshit, even ants have passed it.

>>12269693
>another creature has ability to pass mirror test
>this invalidates the test

>>12269695
We gotta ask ourselves what it is actually testing and if it is really relevant.

>>12269701
i'd argue it displays theory of mind

>>12269293
Do human have consciousness?
Prove it.

>>12269712
Sounds vague.

>>12269490
but those are the blacked.com videos

how dis make you feel white boi

>>12269293

>>12269314
Shut up fag

>>12269293
Yes

>>12269293
KoKo and Ken Allen say yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Allen

>self-awareness = consciousness
OH NO NO NO

>>12269314
This is correct.

>>12270033
you retarded chinks need to be banned from here

>>12269293
>Panpsychism
Consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness

>>12270070
plants and microbes dont have consciousness you buffoon, and to think so isnt chink-y you embarrassing newfag. Pls leave this board

Anything with the ability to respond to its environment has consciousness to some degree.

>>12269460% of
>mirror test
that's hardly a test and humans do not pass it anyway

>>12269314
>>12269336
>>12270070
Samefag

>>12269293
Small parrots don't recognize mirrors, yet they have strong emotions and long for conpany.

>>12269293
if consciousness is being tuned to human preprogrammed responses and social learn responses. then no. We ain't special.

>>12270124
You're dumb

>>12269314
>All beings have consciousness. Incuding plants and microbes. >Consciousness is not what separates human from other life form.
Retarded as all fuck.

The vast majority of non-human animals have consciousness. It's conceivable that maybe a few plants do. It's almost certain microbes don't.

Provide a plausible mechanism of action for how a prokaryote can have consciousness, under any meaningful definition of it. Of course it's a fuzzy gradient and there's no clear cutoff, and prokaryotes may have some of the initial building blocks, but for how "consciousness" is typically used by anyone, they aren't conscious.

>>12270721
It's the difference between sentience/consciousness and sapience. You don't need to pass the mirror test to be conscious; only sapient.

>>12270095
>>Panpsychism
>Consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness
Pan(proto)psychism is utter woo-woo bullshit and equivalent to dualism. Both are unscientific and indications of a narrow mind. Just saw a good tweet about this a few hours ago (yes sometimes there are good tweets):

https://twitter.com/Plinz/status/1319777408099049472

>>12269314
>>12270070
>>12269336
You should head back to your containment board now.

>>12269345
monke has tiny dick

what conciousness? knowing that you know?

>>12269293
BMAF

>>12269293
sometimes you just KNOW

>>12271416
it is not about that. it is about feelings.

>>12269293
Yes. And it knows what it is to hate.

>>12269314
based
>>12270856
cringe

>>12269315
even ants and odd people

>>12269293
Yes, but we know it's different on some fundamental levels. For one, I'm pretty sure no chimp that has ever been taught sign language has ever asked a question. They only communicate in statements and requests.

Dogs and monkeys have tiny dicks so why are they stealing the white women?

>>12269315
My cat would hiss at his reflection every single time he saw it, no matter when or where. Was he not conscious or did he just have a lot of self-loathing?

>>12269460
did they pass the NOFAP test? Didn't think so.

>>12269293
That ape was taught to do that, part of the tourist entertainment.

>>12269293
Yes, niggers seem to have consciousness.

>>12273313
But dogs have bones in their dick, so they can do it all night

>>12270864
Panpsychism doesn't necessarily propose that consciousness is "outside" physics and in fact even if it did, you can make the argument that physics can't describe everything even in materialist universes.

>>12273002
Jesus fuck, why do we bring these anywhere near people? I'd have to have a fucking steel suit before I consider it.

>>12277358
>why do we bring these anywhere near people?
Fear of being called racist.

>>12270856
Provide a plausible mechanism for how you have consciousness

>>12270864
Materialism is cringe autism bullshit

check art of zoo fantazy good girl. blackpill

>>12269293
Wow, 4channel really did kill 4chan. If this was posted back in the day, the first post without a doubt would have been about black people.

humans are no apes

humans are their own thing

if humans are apes then why is calling someone an ape an insult?

>>12269345
LOL

>>12278164
Racism

>>12269345
Audibly kekked at work

>>12269293
If that chimp isn't self aware he sure simulates it well.

>>12269765
I sure don't.

>>12269897
No fucking way. I want to believe.

>>12278259
Meant for
>>12278168

>>12278267
If you actually look up the videos, it's a bunch of elephants who are doing this for a crowd of people who paid for admission. The elephants are clearly trained on this and it's not natural.

>>12273002
it's because they were feeding the one chimp probably, they went into a jealously spiral and devoted their lives to killing these two.

>>12269293
That's most likely a female orangutan.

>>12278760
>lesbians
noice

>>12278760
How can you tell?

>>12269293
No. Go back to /x/

>>12278083
You can experience the real 4chan by making another race and IQ thread where you can circlejerk with your buddies from magaland

>>12279480

>>12269293
>Do non-human apes have consciousness?
Very likely.

>>12277388
I have internal monologue you NPC, in fact you might be another aspect of my consciousness and i'm arguing with myself.

>>12278168
Because the person using the insult is dumb

>>12279585
>you might be another aspect of my consciousness and i'm arguing with myself
Funny story, one time I went into a thread on 4chan and replied to a post to argue against it. When my post appeared there was a (You) next to the reply post number. I argued against my own past self and didn't even realize it until after.

>>12269314
why aren't you an ant then? the chance is astronomically higher that you would be. there are at least an estimated 10,000 trillion ants yet you happen to be from a species with only 7 billion which just happens to be the most intelligent and unique? lets not even get into microbes.

>>12270856
>The vast majority of non-human animals have consciousness.
and where is your evidence for that? this claim is just as unfounded as his unless you can provide a good reason to believe it.

>>12269314
fpbp

>>12280017
when it is raining, put your hand under rain and ask a raindrop why it fell on your hand instead of somewhere else

>>12269293
Yes.

>>12269794
xD

>>12270765
No u

>>12278641
as opposed to humans that are all natural artists

>>12282835
What I'm suggesting is that the elephants are tracing over lines or otherwise painting precisely what they were taught to paint, then it's being sold to an audience as "Elephants can draw pictures of themselves and their surroundings all on their own!" They haven't learned to paint, they're following rigid instructions that hold no meaning for the elephants themselves.

>>12279567
>If I make a dumb enough strawman into a comic depicting my political opponent as a fatso then I'll win the argument for sure :^)

>>12282888
Arguably humans are exactly the same, you are born with no concept of anything, then society trains you just like those elephants were trained. Go to work, be independant, make lots of money, dont be a loser... all of those things are things you do because someone else decided that you should, any concept of self that you think you have, is completely constructed through a societal regime of indoctrination and training, the only difference is that the elephant knows that he does what he does because of a foreign influence- and you do not.

>>12283192
DID YOU ASK THE ELEPHANT?

>>12269293
Yes. Read Frans de Waal

Nog

>>12283192
You can teach a child how a marker works and then they'll naturally draw things they see around themselves without prompting. You can't do the same thing with an elephant. They didn't just teach the elephant how paintbrushes work and then observe what the elephants painted, they likely painstakingly taught each elephant a series of specific brush strokes that mean nothing to them other than whatever reward they receive for getting it right (or punishment for getting it wrong). It's a Chinese Room.

>>12269693
>why yes ants have hyper complex social structure and behaviors
>no they can't be smart, they're just bugs
Just wait and see what happens when we figure out mechs. You won't be laughing then, humans.

>>12270095
This.

>>12283712
>ants invent mechs
>they're 5mm tall
>their bullets bounce off human skin
Cute little guys.

>>12269871
LMFAO

>>12282910
>if I keep arguing until the other guy gives up it means I'm right

>>12284541
Well I give up. You win. Have your race and IQ threads. I won't post in them though and I won't read them. You don't have the right to force me to.

>>12279076
Retard

>>12286244
I just made you read this. You are my bitch.

>>12286905
Actually you're my bitch. I am nonwhite and I live in a white country. The butthurt that you feel as a result of this will never be comparable.

Of course

>>12269293
Yes, they are gonna go to 4d and 5d in about 5 million years.

>>12278641
Pretty impressive either way. But slightly disappointed.

>>12279480
>muh trump

>>12279666
>these are the people talking shit on /sci/
lmao the midwit meme is real

>>12277393
>Nooo not my based but baseless mysticismirinooo

>>12284541
I'm a separate person retard

>>12281792
Galaxy brain response

>>12280017
You'd probably see through the whole colony than an individual ant.

>>12269293
they are called Blacks

>>12277393
People are still seriously materialists?

>>12269315
why do african americans not pass the mirror test?

>>12279567
ok then, why do nigerians have the highest educational attainment in the US?

>>12291335
>>12291359
don't care, blacks are still subhuman

>>12269293
>non-human apes
anon I..

>>12269293
What a CHAD I'm so envious

>>12269314
This. We can argue as to their degree of consciousness compared to humans or other animals, but all creatures have it.

>>12269336
This is also true. Plants react to their environs, dangers, presence of light and water the same way animals do, they just do it much, much slower. They literally show all the same basic signs of consciousness as lower level animals do.

>>12269293
Consciousness is nothing unique. It's literally just the brain trying to figure out and interact with its environment, in order to survive, while flooded with all sorts of external and internal stimulus from the life and events around it, as well as the hormones and instincts within its body.

Nah I think only humans have consciousness.
Its basically just metacognition i.e. thinking about what you think, knowing what you know etc.

>>12292494
Most humans don't have metacognition. I'm not saying this as a protein or as racist thing or low iq thing, I'm saying that many seemingly normal people do not have metacognition.

>>12292625
They have the capacity even if they don’t use it.

>>12291335
they're inferior to ants

>>12286911
>brown person thinks he's smart by moving away from his low iq brown shithole and relocating to a higher iq white country
Good chance you and your family will not survive to old age if you think you're going to stay in a white country. Jews are on their way out from power and that's the thing only protecting you right now.

>>12292887
Explain how. I need hope.

>>12291359
affirmative action and the fact they are the best of a bad lot

>>12269693
A 2 year old white toddler passes it too, yet blacks don't until around 6 years old. Weird considering the develop faster and even have a shorter gestation period

>>12294224
cope

>>12284541
yes

>>12294265
you dont have to lie anon. its usually around 18 months, regardless of race. tie yourself a noose btw. just for funsies is all

>>12294265
>yet blacks don't until around 6 years old.
dude get a brain. i am racist myself but this is just a 100% retarded claim

>>12269293
There is no consciousness

>>12294265
>yet blacks don't until around 6 years old
Not blacks in general: Kenyans. Try reading this article again and this time actually take in what it's saying: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/kids-and-animals-who-fail-classic-mirror/

>Broesch thinks that freezing is indirect evidence of self-awareness. The kids didn't pass the mark test, per se, but their behavior still demonstrated that they knew they were looking at themselves.
>"I think it's gotten confused in the field. We've forgotten that the behavior itself is also an objective means of showing that the subject understands self," she says.
>The difference is not about when the children develop self-awareness or empathy, Mitchell says. Rather, it has to do with their social conditioning. Kids raised in interdependent cultures learn from the earliest games they play how to be part of a group.
>Meanwhile, children raised to be independent are taught games that emphasize how they are separate and unique. In fact, Western kids are much more likely to be raised with lots of mirrors around them, and to play games in which their parents point at those mirrors and say, "Who's that? Is that you?"

>>12294373
Except for that one study in Kenya where they decided to stop testing anymore Africans after the problematic results

>>12294390
https://youtu.be/cKs_iW0QVNY

>>12294480
Sounds like apologetics to me.

>>12269314
based

>>12294464
t. zombie

>>12269293
Sad thing about that video is some dude trained him to do all those things for tourist cash.

>>12269315
My dog used to lay on the bed and stare into an old panasonic game console (with a mirror finish) i had on the table for hours, I realized after a while he was staring at me.

The moment I moved or looked at him (even silently) he would turn his head to me.

>>12294480
Excuses so you are not labeled a racist. Perhaps goldfish can't recognize themselves in the mirror because of their culture?

I suppose

>>12295608
And Magpies. Magpies and Crows have a long culture of mirror usage so are able to pass the test. Unlike the Kenyan kids they have mirrors all around the nest

There was this reality tv show a while ago. They showed a tribal person into a western style house. When they saw the mirror they didnt know it was them until someone told them and they knew. I think its pretty obvious that the mirror style is not reliable at inferring about self awareness.

>>12297660
Do these people never see their reflection in water or anywhere else like that?

>>12297660
But why do western toddlers pass it before turning 2?

>>12297994
Because they have mirrors in their house and their parents teach them about their reflection and play with them in front of mirrors basically from birth.

>>12297998
So why do Magpies and Dolphins pass it?

>>12269293
CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT SELF AWARENESS CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT SELF AWARENESS CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT SELF AWARENESS CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT SELF AWARENESS CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT SELF AWARENESS

>>12297998
Tests have already shown previous mirror exposure isn't predictive of passing the test, despite what you might think.

>>12298149
Really? Having someone explain how mirrors work to you isn't predictive of passing the test where you have to figure out how a mirror works?

>>12269315
even our reflections pass the mirror test

>>12278703
chimps are the biggest niggers of the animal world, they attempt murder because "gibs me dat"

>>12291359
being past the top 3rd standard deviation of their population means they're pretty bright, even for a population with a low mean.

>>12269293
Since the smartest gorilla has 93 IQ and papa new guineans have 59 then I'd say yes.

>>12270864
Well if a faggot on Twitter says it, I guess it must be true; especially if another faggot who uses terms like “woo-woo” unironically endorses it

>>12294224
massive cope

>>12269314
Based

>>12279567
All this HURRDURR'ary is a waste of your energy.

All your problems are a reflection of yourself, not attributable to external factors. No reason to knock blacks down like that.

>>12300186
so do humans

>>12270856
Anomalous cognition proves everything is conscious, it's just more likely to manifest and concentrate in humans, similar to how lightning is attracted to metal. Basically proof, that extremely small amounts of 'magic' exist it's just like 1 billionth of our existence. You just need an extremely fine instrument, and to ask people 'yes' or 'no' a million times, and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we do as humans have the ability to alter reality in extremely small ways.

>>12269293
I've always wondered what non human primates thought about humans. Do they have the mental capacity to think about things that aren't there, like imagine what we are etc.?
>"Man, these are some strange hairless monkeys"
Do they even recognize us as fellow primates or do they think we are some kind of furless bear? What do they think about us?
Oh, yeah, and they obviously have consciousness OP, you faggot