/sci/ - Science & Math

SYNTIN CHADS RISE UP

Today I will remind them

second for flappy bird

>>12255763

I love how I can't even keep up anymore.

>>12255760
what if the martian monolith is emitting an anti-sabatier field that nobody has detected yet

>>12255773
THEN WE CANT GO TO MARS. DANGEROUS CONFIRMED

>>12255779
well how are we gonna know if we don't test it before we go to mars??

I wonder if I could make syntin in my garage

>>12255781
We should send a person to Mars and if they die, then we don't go back.

>>12255763
Today, I will remind them

>when did the mexican welders turn into mexican painters

>>12255787
what if we did delta iv but kerolox

>>12255789
you mean delta II?

Blue Origin already has moon bases. Prove me wrong.

>>12255791
no just take the delta iv out on the pad but fill it up with kerolox for the next launch attempt

>>12255794
it'd get exactly as far off the ground as NROL-44 has

>>12255795
ok but you dont have to be rude

>>12255794
It would probably look similar to a gasoline car filled with diesel

>>12255793
Blue Origin vs SpaceX. Who wins?
Team Space!! :D

>>12255789
Saturn multibody isn’t real, but it fucking should be.

>tfw build large Matt lowne style space stations with artificial gravity rings
>always manage to fit it in the fairing
>computer struggles on the launch pad, game crashes on launch
>I don't have the time or attention span to construct in orbit over 4-5 launches
I probably won't even be able to run ksp2. Feels badman.

>>12255788
you can't turn into something you already were

>>12255818
get a real computer nigga

>>12255788
They’re MexiCANs, not Mexican’ts. They’ll find a way to do whatever you ask.

>>12255818
just use https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/80225-19-110-hangar/ and put the modules in boxes and then deploy them in orbit so performance doesnt shit the bed during launch

turbodiesel launch systems when?

>>12255830
inspiring o_o

>>12255832
Its not just launch, the physics themselves cause computer to shit.
>>12255829
Bef is building a new one and he's gonna give me his old one. 64gb ram, 2tb nvme, some nice processor and some great video card, idk. Should be able to handle it then

"My friends who want to move to Mars? I say do me a favor: Go live on the top of Mount Everest for a year first and see if you like it, because it's a garden paradise compared to Mars."

>>12255845
based, there's literally no reason to go to mars

redpill me on jeffs sexuality

>>12254620
They're painting one of the scrap nosecones/maybe also SN6 so they can put it in front of Elon for the Starship event as a mock Moonship. Put it next to the fully stacked SN8 and you've got a helluva lot more to show than the bootstrapped nightmare that was Mark 1.

>>12255849
he's a sniffer

>>12255794
It would explode in an extremely fuel rich explosion after turbopumps made to handle lightweight low density hydrogen fuel has dense as fuck warm kerosene ran through it, then it would douse the pad in excess unburnt kerosene lmao
Also those hydrogen tanks probably aren't strong enough to hold that much kerosene, since the bigger tank is the fuel tank, not oxidizer tank

>>12255845
>valid reason to stay indoors 24/7
>climate controlled bio dome
>kino views
sounds comfy

>>12255851
Wow they ruined SN6 and turning it into a prop? Shame on Elon

>>12255806
SpaceX will win 99.999999%

>>12255845
Jeff, do me a favor and get to orbit

>>12255857
well how can you be sure if you dont try it

>>12255842
>64gb ram
What the fuck was he using his computer for?

>>12255865
anon, i

What's the actual purpose of the header tanks? Is it just easier to pressurize than a mostly empty main tank? Meant to prevent liquid sloshing? Is the LOX header in the nose for center of gravity purposes or is there another reason?

>>12255842
>64gb ram, 2tb nvme, some nice processor and some great video card, idk. Should be able to handle it then
Processor is the only spec that matters for KSP, and even then it's only the single core that counts. And even then, it's still gonna run like shit past 300-500 parts within physics range.

>>12255856
Based

>>12255877
I may suggest that it is to cool the part that heats the most during take-off and reentry — the tip of the nose cone, where the shock forms.

Found out VLC has a wallpaper-mode
Made it livestream labpadre to my wallpaper kek
Banned from uploading images so here goes : https://imgur.com/a/1L2Joch

>>12255893
bro what did you do? did u get too cocky

>>12255773
there's a reason Elon made flamethrowers

>>12255877
Yes

>>12255773
Legend has it SJW culture broke out on the ancient human mars society so they nuked the planet and set up the monolith to stop us from repeating the process.

>>12255845
As compared to "living and working in space"? Give me a comfy habs on Mars that I can leave and explore stuff outside rather than a fucking rotating amazon strip mall hab in the cold blackness of space. Is Jeff retarded?

>>12255845
Everest is a fucking mountain and it has a fuck ton of wind and the way up involves rock climbing and not falling into a fucking glacier. Mars is just a comfy desert with a mild breeze. Moon is completely unmoving.

>>12255896
Nah my whole city is ban

>>12255945
True cope coming from someone who can't even reach LEO, let alone the Moon or Mars

>>12255851
when is the update tho?

>>12255954
I'd imagine that living in an enclosed habitat or dome on top of Everest and being able to look out and see that landscape every day would be rad as shit. Even moreso when you get to strap on a fully climate and oxygen controlled suit and spin donuts in your Everest Cybertruck.

>>12255963
probably november at this rate. was tentatively planned for this week

>>12255963
He said October in September. The real question is whether they do the update just before the SN8 hop or just after it. My guess is that it looks a lot better to have SN8 around as a prop for the update since there's like a 75% chance it doesn't survive the test.

>>12255845
some places on Mars are warmer and with less steep terrain than Mt. Everest tho. Also helicopters with supplies can't fly above 6000 meters on Mt.Everest.

>>12255971
>75% chance it doesn't survive the test
really? is this an official estimate?
It will probably explode but it will be a nice show tho. I agree on making the presentation before possible destruction of SN8.

>>12255954
I hate to agree with b*zos but he has a point. Everest is, in almost all ways, better than Mars. The wind is a bit fucked but the temperatures and air pressure is quite nice relatively speaking. Mars is truly an alien world that is really only better than like, antarctica or the caldera of a hyperactive volcano here on earth

starship delivering cargo to mount everest when?

>>12255971
SN9 already getting fins, and SN5 is being painted white as a moonship mockup. Plently of showpieces so SN8 might launch before

>>12255974
By that logic we shouldnt live in space at all, or the Moon, which is where Jeff says he wants to go. Both places are less hospitable than the surface of Mars

>>12255973
Just my guess, it's going to be a first for 3 or 4 major milestones. Multiple Raptors, relighting Raptors in flight, motorized aero surfaces, general belly flop stressed on the ship, etc. Elon has said that he expects several ships to crater before they get the landing 100% right but hasn't given any real odds beyond that.
Probably worth noting that SN9 is already getting aeros installed so if they wanted to do the SN8 hop in the next week or two they could probably have SN9 fully kitted out in time for the presentation (although they'd need to install the SN9 nosecone pre-static fire).

why are nasa streams so fucking BAD

>>12255981
Oh I’m not trying to be anti space or anything. Mars will kill you if you are like, chinese or something, but if you pre plan and bring the right rockets and living habitats and EVA suits it’s fucking cool. Lots of geology to be done there
>>12255978
Has that white paints been confirmed to be for a starship mockup or is that just speculation? Why is HLS moonship white anyways? a “normal” starship isn’t white in the lunar concept art so i’m wondering if it’s some weird NASA requirement or does it have something to do with thermal management

>>12255845
The only reasons why Jeff discounts Mars is
1) he thinks it's too hard a task for BO
2) Musk rivalry

basically he's a retard

>>12255987
they still have an oldspace mentality where nothing above ground level or capsule interior was streamed maybe

>>12255990
kek

>>12255974
>Mars is truly an alien world
That's the entire point - it's not about going on a vacation for fun, it's about setting another planet for if/when something horrible happens on this one. Of course no one lives on Everest, there's a near infinite number of better places on Earth to live, but if something happens to Earth then we need a backup.
If Jeff wants to start building O'Neill Cylinders then I'm all ears, but I'll actually believe he's serious when he gets New Glenn off the ground before 2030.

>>12255974
>Everest is, in almost all ways, better than Mars
I disagree, terrain is shit and temperature is often lower than some places on Mars.

>>12255988
>Has that white paints been confirmed to be for a starship mockup or is that just speculation?
AFAIK it's still just speculation, but we know that there's no point to painting regular Starship because it'll just burn off during reentry. I'm assuming the white Moonship is for thermal management although I don't see how it could possibly be more effective than a shiny surface.

>>12255988
based, it was always about the geology

>>12255996
Jeff will die loooong before anything close to an o'neill cylinder concept is considered. best we can hope for is he starts a serious von braun station

>>12255996
Fuck I don’t want to go too far down the O’niel cylinder rabbit home at 3am but i’ll give my two cents about it:
1) I can technically see it being done, especially if we have an 18m+ starship. I am NOT saying it’s a good idea. Just that one could TECHNICALLY be built where you could assemble it in parts and have a moderately sized 30m+ cross section with air and soil and plants
2) There’s like a 99% chance it will end up like biosphere II and everything will start to go wrong. It’ll maybe last 10, 20 years? But like the shuttle or ISS it is bound to get shitty eventually. Cylinders are gay and Id rather have a planet to myself. Bezos can suffocate in his stinky feet smelling cylinder while I dine with musk in a comfy mars hab while we discuss our vacation to the titan colony

>>12256006
That's why it's so funny that he shills for the far, far future ideal option when he can't even get to orbit. Musk is determined to reach Mars before he dies, Bezos knows that as long as he makes the goal unattainable then he can't actually fail.

>>12255893
Chad KDE user

>>12255845
You talk a lotta shit B for someone who ain't even got an orbital rocket. Make no mistake, if Jeff COULD beat Musk to Mars, he would

>>12256009
Cylinder's are objectively the better solution but the scale involved means that none of us are likely to see even a serious proposal suggested before we're all dead. We'll eventually get there but in the short term Mars is absolutely the right choice.

pressure fed hydrogen monopropellant rockets when?

>this is the greatest rocket ever made
>the saturn V launch vehicle...
>five engines
>more than enough to launch anything to the moon.

>>12256019
but can it launch another saturn v to the moon?

>>12256009
speaking of biosphere II, what went wrong?
relying on plants for O2 generation?
new age hippies running it?
ants being the superior specie?

>>12256020
bro i wasnt ready for this

>>12256022
Self-proclaimed “synergist” hippies running it was the main problem I believe. I know it had CO2 buildup problems so they broke the experiment and secretly let in outside air. It was a billionaires weird passion project much like blue origin. Had it been run by an actual smart guy it could have most likely been actually self sustaining

>>12256022
>expensive an moronic management
probably the hippies. why can't some crazy kook just go out and build his own self contained biodome? why do you need millions of dollars?

>>12256022
mostly just totally fucked management

>>12256037
I make closed ecosystems with pond water, and the little things that end up in it usually live pretty good for a while, and go through multiple generations without issues
as long as you have soil, plants, water, and small animals/bugs, they stay contained

>>12256009
there was this guy on youtube hypothesizing two starships rotating around a center acting as a very rudimentary artificial gravity environment...

>>12256015
>the scale involved means that none of us are likely to see even a serious proposal suggested before we're all dead
remember that radio and airplanes was invented just 2 generation ago anon, magnitude can go boom in ways we'd never expect.

>>12256020
maybe

orbital assembly of saturn v for outer planet missions when?

>>12256046
I expect we'll see a self-sustaining Mars colony and probably some large rotating habitats in orbit. A full cylinder with actual greenery and an artificial sun seems well outside of even the most optimistic projections. I hope I'm wrong.

>>12256044
dont let the tethermeisters infect your brain anon

>>12255770
What is that from?

>>12256056
KSP + Mk33 part mod

>>12256053
why not? wouldn't it be a possibility?

>>12255472
>>12255481
According to my research, the real problem for women peeing standing up is having to take off their pants entirely, or lift up their skirt

It's basically getting half naked just for a pee, unlike men

I can't say I mind though

>>12256081
just issue them funnels

>>12256084
Still gotta take off your clothes

>>12256044
you could strap arbitrary number of ships together by their nose or ass
you could also vent the tanks and have wet workshop greenhouses or just more space
if you had enough ships you could connect them with bendy tubes and trusses into necklace-like torus (we're talking dozens, if not a hundred to have reasonably slow radial speed and reasonably long corridors)

>>12256089
>Solar flare
>No problemo just point tank towards the sun to protect
Oh wait can't do that if you are tethered

>>12256085
just stuff it in through the zipper nigga

1000m starship when?

>>12256089
ahahaha this is the dumbest shit i've ever seen

>set up telescope in your backyard on cylinder habitat
>watch people on the other side of the cylinder having sex in their backyards
wtf bros i love the future!

>>12256089
This is peak oldspace thinking. Instead of innovating in the realm of in-space manufacturing, let's string an arbitrary number of reusable starships and spin them around. Nevermind that if you'd reused all those starships, it wouldve enabled you to launch shitloads of mass to orbit on the cheap.

>>12256103
Just put the sun in the middle of the wheel retard

>>12256126
g e n i u s

>>12255830
they can also yeet cargo the size of a blue whale to the moon for about 100 dollar

>>12256123
you need a base of operation to start manufacturing
this could serve as your container houses at a construction site or prefab factory
It wouldn't be from full Starships anyway, more like Starship-shaped modules to take full advantage of the SH first stage
>>12256103
radiation shield and extra shielding around living quarters
>>12256108
you might not like it, this is the peak performance
the closest you could get to artificial gravity orbital habitat like O'neil cylinder with current technology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiMXK9eDrMY

Tick-tock, Boing.

>>12256081
I am not going to follow this thread back, but women wear diapers just like guys do in the military and space. There are also jockstrap devices specifically to allow female soldiers to piss without having to take their pants off. They pee into it and the piss is channeled to a tube outside of it. Basically like a catheter without needing to stick anything inside of you.

There is literally NO justifiable reason to go to mars. We need to be fixing the home we have, not wasting resources on the delusional fantasies of a racist billionaire.

>>12256165
God I would volunteer to clean up astrogirl diapers, warm and wet and wild!

>>12256154
Use inflatable habs and interconnect those to noninflatable. Hell, make the fucking interiors modular so you can position the smaller non-inflated modules inside of the inflatable ones after transit. This isn't hard and doesn't require you arbitrarily spiking Starships.

>heat shield tiles
neat

>>12256171
*falls off and kills the crew*

>>12255877
1. hold the propellant for the landing burn
2. yes
3. yup
4. yup

Current MOMO 7 scrub status: scrubbed until October 30 evening US time. Stand by for more scrub updates!
>>12255682
because Space is Hard! ™® [rainbow unicorn emoji]

>>12255988
NASA has a fetish for titanium oxide paint
it's just the way it is

>>12256044
tin can on a string is the future

>>12256181
Wonder how much of their propellant they consume before every launch. It's either scrub or it burns through the feed lines.

do astronauts (female) reuse their diapers

>>12256173
my god the shuttle was a deathtrap. I recently learned that In addition to columbia and challenger it should have blown up 2 more times.

An earlier 1999 mission that columbia went on had a breach in the regeneratively cooled engine bell among other issues. Got extremely lucky that wasn't a loss. And the Atlantis really should have disintegrated like Columbia, but it got extremely lucky that the tile that was knocked off was over a steel mounting plate instead of over aluminum like 99% of them were. Aluminum would have melted.

>>12256198
they didn't die because there weren't any Jews onboard
Jews are bad luck in space

why can we just move mars closer to earth

>>12256181
Every time I see a sounding rocket I wanna slide it down my urethra

spess

>>12256195
extracted astrofemalian piss is a delicacy. sip

how many people have pooped during eva

>>12256212
DId they save a camera from 1998 to take that picture?

>>12256013
KDE is truly chad. Very customizable.

>>12256243
it's a satellite photo, anon, that picture is through at least 100km of atmosphere

>>12255878
>Processor is the only spec that matters for KSP, and even then it's only the single core that counts
KSP uses individual threads for each vehicle, so while one vehicle wouldn't take advantage of a multicore CPU, having a lot of vehicles out at once will.
The GPU does matter if you have a lot of physics going on. The game uses PhysX to crunch physics numbers on the GPU.

something happened (something happened)

>>12256246
the crosshatching is from upscaling

>>12255870
Medical software development, games, drafting for 3d printing. He's a pretty handy guy.

Curiosity struck me, so I made a poll. Where are you guys from?

https://www.strawpoll.me/21135343

>>12256316
>Includes eastern and western yuurop, but no northern and southern yuurop.
Do you have big retard?

>>12256318
I wanted to list the big nations of the west, but that required too much effort. Just pick east or west, then post your country, sven/luigi

>>12256316
nice try NSA

>>12256321
No

>>12256328
>>12256329
Alright fuck me for trying to indulge my curiosity on the science board. No need to be counts about it.

>>12256328
As if they didnt already knew everything you do on the internet

>>12256318
The divide exists solely to bully impoverished slavs. If you‘re not one of them, you‘re west.

>>12256316
How about: USA, EU, OZ, Russia, other

>>12256265
Oh no. The world is lopsided.

>>12256332
>implying they don't gather all their intel through vague polls on anonymous message boards
don't be so naive anon

>>12255972
Helicopters can't fly on Mars at all.

>>12256454
Yeah they can, they just need to be really light have have high screw displacement.

>Roscosmos will no longer share the details of creating a reusable rocket - they did not like the public reaction."The RSC Progress decided not to talk about the details of the dev elopment of the Amur-LNG reusable methane rocket,since public discussion is harmful to its creation."

APOLOGIZE /sfg/. APOLOGIZE FOR CYBERBULLYING ROSCOSMOS.

>>12256464
Roscosmos is a fucking joke

>>12256454
>flies in your path

>>12256467
>inb4 thats not a helicopter thats a drone

>>12256464
imagine getting your feelings hurt by some spacex fanboys online

>>12256461
>>12256467
Literally watch the documentary on this thing. RPM is insane and it can only fly for a short time and not very high.

Mars atmosphere is equivalent to Earth atmosphere at 45km.

>>12256464
pls no bully poor russians they are working very hard

>>12256467
>1.8kg
>2.400rpm

>>12256472
So? They still work. Or were you referring to using them as a practical means of transportation?

>>12256464
>Original rocket, do not steal
Also, is that one or two engines they were planning on throttling low enough for a re-entry and landing burn? lol

>>12256464
Are russians the most sensitive people on earth? They sure love to talk shit but can't take even the mildest banter

>>12256478
>Also helicopters with supplies can't fly above 6000 meters on Mt.Everest.

What do you think?

>>12256481
Say Taiwan on Bilibili and find out.

>>12256486
I said people

>>12256481
They're good bullshitters. They don't like being called on it though. That "rocket" reveal was never intended to go outside Russian borders just like all the other Rogozin spastics.
I have a friend who's Russian but grew up outside the country and is now a citizen of another country, he explained to me in detail how they'll do bullshit feel good stories for internal consumption in the belief that we don't read them here.

>>12256491
That would explain why it always seems like they're developing 10 paper rockets at any given moment and none of them ever get officially cancelled. They just sorta fade out of memory.

>>12255845
He's unironically right. We will probably get a Mars base maybe even few but actual city with normal civilians? Pipe dream for at least a century.

If we actually get a real space industry going large habitats will unironically be better in every way.

Doesn't change the fact that his BO accomplished nothing so far tho.

>>12256467
What are the odds that they have a successful landing?

>>12255845
McMurdo is a better analogue and we've had a scientific outpost there how long now?

>>12256497
Habitats capable of actually supporting an off-earth infrastructure will not be launched from Earth. It requires vast amounts of dumb, raw resources, pretty much exactly backwards from what you should be doing with the infrastructure of a highly developed planet with a very restrictive path to orbit. The first O'neill cylinder or equivalent will be assembled from pre-fab parts launched on the moon and/or mars.

>>12256497
Zeon wannabes get the ROPE.

>>12256484
I never claimed they were good transportation for goods or people. But I bet it's within our power to make em. The only reason helicopters can't fly higher is because there is literally zero demand for them to do so. If high-altitude choppers became something that we cared to build, we could do it pretty easily. Swing-wing rotor blades that extend out at altitude, or some kind of supplemental thrust, and we'd be there. Sure they wouldn't be as efficient, but you are conflating "don't bother with" with "can't." It's just like Tawantinsuyu not using wheels; it's not like they weren't aware of them (they had them on toys and wheelbarrows on the plateaus), but they didn't bother with them because for the most part, they weren't worth using over pack animals adapted to the mountains coupled with a much more flexible travois.

Sure, it would be a bitch and a half, but if we wanted to we could absolutely make a cargo helicopter for Mars. Would it be anything approaching efficient? No. Would it be practical? Probably not. But could we? You fucking betcha. Could we get to alpha centauri in 40 years? You bet. Will people bother with the Orion drive? Of course not.

>>12256501
Good? Perseverance is basically Curiosity 2.0

>>12256501
They've landed a couple of rovers now, they know the drill.

>>12256501
The skycrane design is proven, and I'd trust the team who built a multi-billion dollar rover go get it right above anyone else. I'd put it at an 85% chance of success.

>>12256501
US hasn't failed a Mars landing in the last 5 tries. I'd wager over 90%.

>>12256509
>Will people bother with the Orion drive?
Yes. The power of the opposition to such a project will be highly localized to the Earth's sphere of influence while the appeal of the raw performance benefits will be too strong for everyone else to ignore.

>>12256123
>Send up a few mexican welders in space suits
>Tell them to weld a rotary habitat from a Starship full of sheet metal

What kind of diet has a greater effect on the poops of the female astronauts?
If they eat beans or meat, how does that effect the smell, consistency, or colour, and what type of diapers are best for each kind?
Should females be fed a special high-meat low-fibre diet to induce as many runny stinky poops as possible to use to stimulate male astronauts, or a special high-fibre plant-based diets to produce ultra-firm poops which can be used as durable and natural building materials? Should the first Martian habitats be made of female astronaut poops?
Serious replies only.

>>12256508
Feddies get a colony...

>>12256517
The problem is that it shoots shitloads of radioisotopes all over the place. Direct fusion drive is probably a good compromise, but if we can figure out how to make antimatter at scale (like, periodic generation from collected energy on the flight) that's good (if inefficient). If we could find a way to do h-bombs without spewing clouds of mutagenic horror all over the solar system, I'd be jazzed.

>>12256555
Unironically just set it up like Ikea flatpack furniture, and then build some little R2D2 looking fucker to actually do the welds.

I am MAD ABOUT PAINT.

>Virgin Orbit has spent $1 Billion so far for a small rocket

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1318904592109809670

LOL

>>12256588
That paint is for the moon SS mockup faggot

>>12256593
>LauncherOne is a two stage orbital launch vehicle under development by Virgin Orbit since 2007
> It is an air launch to orbit rocket, designed to launch "smallsat" payloads of 300 kilograms (660 lb) into Sun-synchronous orbit,
>The first attempted orbital test flight was completed on 25 May 2020, but failed to reach space
You can't make something this pathetic up

>>12256571
>clouds of mutagenic horror
You aren't breathing in the fucking exhaust, if they're constantly crisscrossing the solar system you might catch an atom every once in a while. Who the fuck gives a shit? This kind of timidity won't survive on an off-Earth colony, they'll have the perspective of people who recognize how harsh the solar system is when you aren't protected by a thick atmosphere and magnetosphere at all times.
>Direct fusion and antimatter
You're invoking what might as well be magic today to compete with known tech that could have been done 50 years ago. I don't really give a shit what will be happening when these drives are viable.

>>12256593
On...what, exactly? Where did the money go? They made a rocket smaller than Falcon 1 and strapped it to a 747. The engines are simple kerolox.

>>12256608
>Where did the money go?
space is arduous anon :^)

>>12256605
How is direct fusion majic de jure? All it requires is electricity and hydrogen fuel. With two or three launches you can easily construct a reactor, which will be much lighter as the point is not to collect energy, but rather to expel mass and radiation for thrust. You could easily have a fission reactor that powers the magnetic confinement, and provides what little power life support/crew hab needs.

>>12256464

>>12256618
I'll admit I don't keep track of these fusion experiments because they just aren't interesting to me, but last I checked they need instantaneous energy supplies on the realm of a city and are a one-shot affair. The T/W of such a system with all of the necessary support equipment would make tape outgassing look speedy.

>>12256618
>all it requires is electricity and fuel
And giant superconducting magnets (and/or giant lasers), and better ultra high temperature / pressure CFD modeling than we apparently have. You know, given that there hasn't even been an economically viable fusion reactor built yet.

The crane will collapse and bury spacex and its fanatic cult's beliefs under the rubble once and for all so that finally the United States of America can focus on realistic and sustainable long term space policies.

Why are X planes so fucking fun bros

>>12256652
k. You realize that Starship is not a government project, though, right?

>>12256464
Seriously? The agency complains about SpaceX, insinuating that the company is lying about reusability, makes a statement that they will never work on reusable rocket, and then when they make an announcement about their new reusable rocket that "coincidentally" looks like a Falcon 9 they suddenly can't handle criticism? At least the French handled their announcement with more dignity.

>>12256652
>using private reusable cranes
its what they deserve. we need to focus on expendable government cranes in order to ensure long term sustainable national access to heavy lifting capabilities

>>12256608
The company that competed with spacex early on, made out of proven traditional aerospace experts, also blew something like a billion and was actually about to receive additional NASA funding that was however blocked thanks to spacex crying foul which prompted them to disband because you can't get a rocket to space for pennies. Space is hard and expensive. Rumor says these guys were absorbed in BO. Name was Kistler.

>>12256464
>inb4 cyкa spacex didn't invent paкeтa landing we did here movie proof (insert 1950's barge landing soviet rocket footage)

>>12256660
This. I just don't understand this reusable crane meme.

The amount of money you can save from reusing cranes isn’t enough to justify how much harder it makes it to carry the heavy loads that usually make money in the construction world. I’m sure one day reusability will be more effective, but the truth is that when you have all the challenges that come with material science in general, it’s almost always much more effective to throw away the crane after it’s done its job than to figure out how to make recovery part of the mission. I know of no major technology on the near term horizon that would change that.

Even if reusable cranes are possible now, but when reliability is THE number one priority (in this case the payload takes up 2/3rds of the cost and the actual crane only 1/3rd) it makes absolutely no sense. Like, look at this crane (pic related). This represents some of the most advanced technologies in the mechanical engineering world. Do you honestly think that such a complicated machine can be made tough and reliable enough to be reusable? I doubt it. Best example in my opinion is condoms, sure you could reuse them but making sure that they do not suffer a drop in reliability will cost a lot of money and time.

Just because some hip company made reusing cranes popular, then that doesn't mean that we will have the sci-fi future of millions of lifts per year. We'll be lucky to see more than a couple dozen per year. Dial down your expectations, don't buy into the 'reusability for cranes' meme.

>>12256464
JFK fucking laughing in his grave

>>12256464

>>12256608
>Where did the money go?
It spontaneously RUD'ed itself into Branson's bank account when it failed to ullage properly.

>>12256671
it matters not how often i see that meme, it always makes my day

>>12256588

>>12256689

The first Starlink ground stations in Europe have been found.

>>12256710

Nice, I hope that we get a couple of them here in the Netherlands.

There is nothing useful on Mars.
The only real use is as an Earth backup, but the likelihood of those cataclysmic events are very slim (ie: Siberian traps/bolt from the blue asteroid happen on <10M year timescales) and it would take a few centuries at least to terraform Mars, with little incentive the whole time.
Of course as well, Mars would be a shitty Earth with no EM field and a constantly decaying atmosphere that would need maintainance.
Not saying it won't happen, but the opportunity cost is much too high still.

The real use of all this cheap heavy lift capability in the short term (ie next 50-100 years) is for creating a self sustaining asteroid mining/in orbit manufacturing infrastructure.
This, much like bio-genetics and computer brain interfaces stands to completely transform the relations of human society.
A world where huge high orbit solar farms can be built with practically no human labour input will be drastically different to our own and it's not that far away.

>>12256089
Pic related

>>12256713
Isn't it covered? Or am I wrong that netherland is outside the circles?

>>12256714
>There is nothing useful on Mars.

Come back when you learn how to think like a person.

SpaceX is replacing one of the engines on the Falcon 9 that will launch Crew-1 to the ISS. The mission is now delayed until mid November.
https://twitter.com/KathyLueders/status/1318915120051802112

>>12256719

Oh! I somehow didnt see those circles lol. Nevermind then, we are now covered. Well, maybe we do need one to fully cover Germany and Denmark

>>12256725
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The Sun is not gaseous https://youtu.be/_A7VFVwAA5U

>>12256089

Before we start cooming ourselves over torus habitats we need to first figure out how the fuck we're going to build them.

We can't construct the actual pressurized modules from pieces in orbit yet, but we can prefabricate the torus segments on Earth and assemble the torus in orbit one segment at a time, but that would require a launch system surpassing even the Starship in terms of payload to LEO capacity (we'll need at least 500 tonnes capacity, 60 meter length capacity). You would use similar construction techniques to building a submarine when constructing torus segments.

But before we do that we need to study construction techniques by launching miniaturized prototypes into orbit and observe how they perform.

IMO the biggest challenge would be finding a near-frictionless bearing system for the torus assembly. Space-Odessy-style wheel stations where the entire station rotates only allow one spacecraft to dock at a time at the center of the wheel, and it too must carefully match the rate of rotation before doing so which must be a bitch. Ideally, you'll want only the torus assembly to rotate while the rest of the station stays fixed allowing for easier cargo transfer and docking. You'll also want to make sure the centrifugal loads are not transferred into the delicate inner wall structure holding in the pressurized environment.

Just my two cents.

>>12256495
There's usually nothing much to cancel and no reason to. Those are like poor man's SLS, used mainly to put food on developers' table for as long and with as little work as possible, and unlike the actual SLS so horribly underfunded and understaffed that no one realistically expects anything to ever get anywhere. Sometmes one or the other gets in the news when they need publicity to justify another round of funding or something, to be never heard of in public again.

>>12256740
lmfaooooooo

>>12256710
They should really dump some ground stations here in Norway. He used our country as a gateway to get FCC permission after all and it's a perfect place to test since we have some forgotten ass valleys that don't have proper broadband.
Not that I care, I live in a place with proper fiber, but one hand washes the other etc.

>>12256743
i suggest we build a gigantic 4 stage rocket filled with hydrazine and nitric acid. there should be a crewed and uncrewed version, with the uncrewed version having wings on the top stage so it can return to earth and land on zhe runway

>>12256714
>thinking short term when talking about fucking space exploration.
stop posting.

>>12256768
>i suggest we build a gigantic 4 stage rocket filled with hydrazine and nitric acid. there should be a crewed and uncrewed version, with the uncrewed version having wings on the top stage so it can return to earth and land on zhe runway
then every part of the space wheel or spacestation can be send up and be assembled in orbit

>>12256743
See, I think having moving parts like a giant rotating hangar-core in the center of your station probably causes more problems than it solves in the long run. Yes, you can only have one ship (well, actually two since it has bays on both sides) dock at a time, but lots of airports with way more traffic than a space station get by with just having one runway.

Docking with the middle of a rotating station doesn't have to be hard either. To get .3 G a 2001-sized station only needs to rotate once every 45 seconds.

This Orbiter vid shows that it's not necessarily difficult to do in theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIOUdos3Wvg&t=10m

>>12256464
Oй, ишь! Eщё бyмaжнaя paкeтa

That’s a big crane rolling down to the launch site

>>12256743
The biggest hurdle for a small-mid scale torus station is not launch capacity, it's purpose. It would be a constant liability with no active reason to exist. A landed colony becomes more useful as it expands, it can start to utilize local materials and then start to form an infrastructure of its own. A station is just space welfare.

>>12256743
The only time you really need a bearing is if you have a part of the station not rotate. If you have a dock in the middle and do a slow bbq roll to match the station, then you could have a canadarm or something attach and push your ship over to a docking port. The dock area would only be at a fraction of a G for a decent sized station.

>>12256714

>>12256788
Yes. Elon said that it's just easier to lift the rocket onto orbit with a crane than doing it using a booster. It also negates the necessity of in orbit refueling so yeah

>>12256084
Rubber straw in peehole

>>12256807
with my mouth on the exiting end

>>12256796
spacecrane, when?

>>12256481
Pretty close to it. They’re always shitting up /k/ anytime something bad happens to them or their equipment in combat.

>>12256824
*expandable spacecrane

>>12256788
Is it an expendable crane or a reusable one?

>>12256729
The SpaceX Netherland branch applied for German license too. Now its a matter of waiting for approval.

>>12256515
skycrane is some baller shit

>>12256846
I genuinely didn't think it'd work the first time, I'm glad to have been wrong.

>>12256837
I don't understand this reusable crane meme...

>>12256846
I like how after it delivers the lander it just kinda flies away and crashes on purpose. I wonder if InSight will be able to register it on its seismograph

>>12256769
The orbit industrial capability is the real story, that is what will make a Mars-Earth society feasable anyway.
Until this is in place we will just have a bunch of McMurdos.
Mars colonisation will be just one of the consequences of this and a relatively minor one at that, by the time Mars has anything aproaching a sustainable biosphere, we will be well on the way to making a dyson swarm.

>>12256860
NASA takes forever to do shit but they’ve had a great track record with making even impossible stuff work out.

>>12256860
it's definitely one of those things that looks nuts at firstm but when you think about it the principle behind it is really sound

>>12256893
>Landing a rover on another world with a sky crane? Easy
>Making an orange tank? What the fuck, it isn't that easy in rocketry

Today in history:
>1959 – President Eisenhower approves the transfer of all US Army space-related activities to NASA, including most of the Army Ballistic Missile Agency.
>1965 – Comet Ikeya–Seki approaches perihelion, passing 450,000 kilometres (279,617 miles) from the sun.
>1983 – The metre is defined as the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 of a second.
>2005 – Images of the dwarf planet Eris are taken and subsequently used in documenting its discovery.

>>12256481
Yes. The worst part is that they're nowhere near as bad about it with rockets as they are with tanks.

>>12256900
Eisenhower was so based

>>12256896
Yeah JPL vs Boing isn't really a fair comparison. All the more reason to cut funding to oldspace contractors and put the money towards more science missions instead.

>>12256896
spess is hard :DDDDDDD

>>12256022 Turns out concrete creates CO2 while curing for months - recently pored concrete was the source of CO2 that mostly ruined the experiment - had to add oxygen to offset the CO2. Otherwise the experiment was mostly successful - turns out not quite enough food stuffs were being grown so slow degradation in calories - not a failure but a result. If Musk were running it there would be thee more tries and then total success - crew living comfortably for years.

>>12256909
>Lori Garver blocks your path
No science missions for you. Unless it is earth observation satellites launched on SLS!

>>12256919
>If it was about money, I'd just do another Internet company
>Starlink
Yup I'm thinking Elon is unequivocally based

>>12256900
>President Eisenhower approves the transfer of all US Army space-related activities to NASA, including most of the Army Ballistic Missile Agency
Fun fact, if not for this, Saturn probably would’ve been killed. The USAF had their own Titan-derived heavy-lift booster that was nowhere close to being produced, but they wanted to divert funding from the in-progress Army Saturn I program for it. Von Braun’s supporters were able to keep the program alive under the condition that they stopped taking DOD funding and transferred the ABMA team to NASA. That’s why Marshall Spaceflight Center is located on the Redstone Arsenal instead of a separate civilian facility.

>>12256919
Someone shove that bint down a flight of stairs.

>>12256919
What a piece of shit.

>>12256928
>The USAF had their own Titan-derived heavy-lift booster that was nowhere close to being produced, but they wanted to divert funding from the in-progress Army Saturn I program for it
Interesting to see oldspace acting like oldspace even way back when they were "new".

>>12256896
They should’ve made the Atlas V core 8 meters wide and used the revived F1Bs on it. That plus a balloon J-2X upper stage can give you 70 mt into LEO, and 101 do you use 4 Atlas V cores with an F1 engine as a boosters.

>BUT WAIT! EXPENSIVE!!!!
The F-1B’s that Dynetics pushes costed $15 million apiece. 6 of them (2 on the core and 1 for each booster) would cost $90 million - less than the cost of a single SLS SSME. Also the J-2X upper stage engine isn’t that bad either.

>DEVELOPMENT COSTS ARE HIGH!
Maybe. But as of 2010 the J-2X was only five years away from completion anyways and had already been fired a few times. Also the cost of developing the new F-1Bs would probably not be cheap, but it likely would’ve been around “just” $1 Billion. It took that much to restart production of the SSME and they’ve already flown! But I could see engine development cost being more seeing as you have to build 1 engine from (mostly) scratch and another is embryonic.

>ITS NOT SHUTTLE DERIVED!!!!
Neither is the SLS. The SLS core uses entirely different metals and was redesigned to support top loads. Aside from the tooling, it has nothing in common with the shuttle external tank. The boosters are also very different. More than just adding another segment, they redesigned the propellant and the insulation material of the boosters, as well as their nozzles. At this point the only thing they have in common with the Shuttle SRBs are their steel casings.

For our hypothetical launcher, we can reuse the shuttle tooling to give us a Kerolox stage that is the same height as the Atlas V first stage (short) but is very fat. We know this is not very expensive, because ULA scales up an Atlas V first stage for Vulcan while keeping Development costs at around $1 Billion. There’s no way this would cost more than SLS.
Developing the upper stage would see a Centaur basically being made fat and given a new engine.

>>12256936
Yeah, they also had their own SLS called the Space Launching System. It was actually a pretty interesting idea that used modular combinations of solid first stages and hydrolox upper stages for different mission requirements. The air force wanted to use it to send men to the moon by 1967.

>>12256937
Wait what... the F1-B's were proposed by Dynetics? And only $15 million???? FUCK THE RS-25 AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

>>12256919
Elon has a point. It's obvious that Jeff didn't make Blue Origin to make money because he gives the company a billion dollars per year to do hardly anything to make money for over a decade. It's clear that both Elon and Jeff are in it because they're nerds and like spaceflight, and there's nothing wrong with that.

>>12256919
>boys and their toys
In a just world this bitch would be cleaning gwynne shotwell's toilet

Spadre is next to the crane streaming

>>12256937
Source on that $15M price estimate. Sounds too good to be true.

>>12256946
Woah, this 90's streaming technology is impressive

>>12256950
This image sends /sfg/ into a frenzy every time it is posted. If it is really that cheap I will fucking lose my mind.

>>12256954
Well it's never going to get built let alone fly, so we'll never fucking know, will we?

>>12256956
What's it for?

>>12256957
stacking the nosecone

>>12256957
Just a guess but nosecone stacking I would assume, right?

>>12256937
>The F-1B’s that Dynetics pushes costed $15 million apiece
At that price, Dynetics should’ve entered their single stick version of the Pyrios booster in the most recent EELV competition. It probably wouldn’t win, but it’d get them a lot of good publicity.

>>12256957
Rhinoplasty.

ffs why didn’t they put down the steel plates before moving it

>>12256955
Which is a shame. Long ago SLS supporters had a good argument for not using new tech in SLS because the rocket was advertised as being quick to develop by reusing Shuttle parts, but now development has dragged on for so long that new tech could've been used. Now it's just "well, we're too far into it to stop now". Meanwhile the piss poor management that has caused the delays is left unaddressed just like when that same kind of management killed seven astronauts.

>>12256950
>>12256954
“ The per-unit cost for a production engine was difficult to estimate, however, because it depended upon the quantity ordered and the production rate. Rocketdyne estimated that the cost of each engine would be $15 million, assuming an order of 40 or more engines at a rate of 10–12 a year”

Why is NASA retarded bro’s?

>>12256919
Here's your new NASA administrator bro

>>12256973
>>12256964
It seems like they did.

>”More recently, the company evaluated an “F-1C” design for a commercial customer—probably United Launch Alliance—but that project did not go forward and therefore no details have been made public.”

>>12256978
F-1D, MAKE IT SO

>>12256973
>Why is NASA retarded bro’s?

>>12256950
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3724/1
The $15 million estimate is from a 1992 Rocketdyne design study concerning restarting in modified F-1A production at an annual rate of 10-12 units.

The High Frontier was written by a retard

>>12256936
Titan did end up killing the Saturns in the long run when NASA decided it'd be cheaper to do Titan IIIE than Saturn IB-Centaur.

>>12256999
It should be even cheaper then though right? I mean I looked at that source too (I think) and they said the reason NASA pulled out wasn’t the engine cost, but the development $$$$$ to simplify it

>>12256978
How feasible would it be to convert the F-1 into a methalox engine? Seems like an easy way to produce a big dumb booster with more modern technology.

>>12256999
Checked and I think more accuratley it was $100 million for restarting the F1-A production. 4 engines and a spare. $20 mil a pop. And that's rebuilding the older version. They planned on eventually switching over to F1-B. It would cost a bit to redesign all the tooling hardware but the F1-B was planned to be way way simpler and easier to make so likely $15 mil or less a pop in a best case scenario. Even if for some reason it was $100 million that is STILL half the cost of an RS-25. FUCK NASA and FUCK CONGRESS

>>12256950
b-but muh isp...

>>12257007
Potentially. This study was presumably conducted in 1992 dollars, so the price estimate would inherently be higher. However, this study concerned building F-1As to their original spec. The F-1B was designed to use modern manufacturing techniques to reduce cost, which would presumably make it a lot cheaper.

>>12256978
That must have been for Vulcan. ULA decided early on they were using the BE-4 because they want to hitch a ride with Blue's $$$ so it never would have had a chance.

Aerospike NTR SSTOs when?

>>12257009
You would need entirely new tubopumps, injectors and film cooling.
So probably more expensive than an entirely new F-1 sized methalox engine that isn't as crazy as Raptor.

>>12257035
Are we in a bubble per-se or is raptor really one of the best engines ever made? I mean it’s still in its infancy but from what I can tell raptor can already: deep throttle, break chamber pressure world records, run on methane so no long chain hydrocarbon buildup, be relit multiple times, (supposedly) fly hundreds of flights with minimal refurbishment. It really is one of the best right?

>>12257045
Musk was right I think when he said that starship with raptor is pretty close to optimal for a chemical rocket

>>12257045
Its not a perfect engine yet. It needs to run for several minutes without blowing up and it seems right now that they can’t do that.

>>12257045
You can make pretty much any cool chemical rocket you can imagine using Raptor.

>>12257045
If the SSME had been as reusable as advertised it'd be the best engine ever made too.

>>12257057
Performance wise the SSME is the best engine ever made.

>>12257055
venturestar with raptor? ares 1 with raptor??? SLS???

>>12257057
>>12257059
Yeah but keep in mind SSME HAS to come with an expensive tank. Not to mention it costs $200 mil a piece and $40 mil refurbishment each time. Raptor is already cheap and if SpaceX can stabilize it so it can actually fire it will probably btfo the SSME in terms of production cost and refurbishment cost and cheap ass stainless steel fuel tanks

>>12257067
I don’t know why it costs $150 Million per SSME when back in 2010 it costed $50 Million per engine. Wtf?

>>12257077
It cost $50 mil each flight I believe. That was refurbishment costs. Every time they made new engines it was still $140-200 million. I think?

>>12256481
Their basig rebuttal is to play victim and blame everyone else. It was especially funny when airan downed the passenger plane and Russia came out crying that it was American missile and obvious casus belli and then couple hours later Iran admitted the downing and Russia still said it was done by America.

>>12257064
>VentureStar
SSTO is dumb, I've tried this in Realism Overhaul and haven't made it work desu
>Ares 1 with Raptor
Yeah, a "Raptor 3" stick with a Dragon on top and a single RVac second stage is absolutely a better people yeeter than Ares 1
>SLS
ABSOLUTELY, imagine SLS with flyback Raptor boosters and four Rvac on the core. 99% of the problems disappear.

>>12257082
No I mean I can pull up some docs but a new SSME costed $60 Million like five years ago, and NASA thought they could bring that down to $40 million in the future. It’s insane

>>12257077
The entire cost of NASA's contract for new RS-25s averaged out over the number of engines delivered coes out to ~$140 million. That includes nonrecurring costs for Shekeldyne restarting production on an engine they hadn't made in 10 years. The actual unit cost is cheaper.

>>12257077
Restarting entire production lines ain't free, teaching a new generation how to build the engines ain't free either.

>>12257077
Dedicated production line for a program expected to build tons of engines over decades vs borderline custom work for a small number of refurbs. Add on inflation and the overall grift associated with a make work program as well.

>>12257088
>No I mean I can pull up some docs but a new SSME costed $60 Million like five years ago
Post them. I would like to see them, and then be sad that NASA is accepting $150M for each engine now.

>Based on our current analysis,
@SpaceX
is replacing one Merlin engine on the Sentinel-6 Michael Freilich launch vehicle and one engine for Crew-1 rocket that displayed similar early-start behavior during testing.

https://twitter.com/KathyLueders/status/1318915120051802112

>>12257104
https://spacenews.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-defends-sls-engine-contract-costs/

FULLY REUSABLE SOLID ONLY ROCKET

>>12257110
Fuck I fucked up the formatting.
Looks like those rumors of shoddy suppliers for Falcon 9 was true

>>12257104
He is right. I think they were cheaper years ago but as other anons have said, they had to restart the process and train new people and inflation. I understand NASA wanted to "keep costs down" and "employ the same contractors" but how the FUCK did they not realize this was a mouse trap? Should have just made F1-B's if they were going to restart SSME production. Should have just ditched all shuttle contractors. Fuck- should have just not built SLS in the first place and found a different way to please congress for Artemis funding

>>12257116
Elon is going to go on a rampage or something lmao. Imagine selling Elon Musk cheap chinese parts and expecting him to ever do business with you again

Hypothetically if BO couldn't get the BE-4 working for the foreseeable future would using Raptors instead be an option? Speaking not as much from a technological standpoint but more from a SpaceX perspective with them and ULA having a somewhat hostile competitive relationship, plus the military's aversion to only having one heavy lift provider

>>12257117
>>12257114
>>12257104
“The $40 million cost estimate widely cited for the SSME does not have a date attached. If it comes from 2000, around the time the Block 2 SSME design was in production, that $40 million would be about $64 million in 2020 dollars, using NASA’s New Start Inflation Index. If it comes from 1980, just before the shuttle started operations, it would be nearly $150 million in 2020 dollars.“

So either A) SSMEs were always bumfuck expensive and NASA just presented 1980 cost figures or B) It really was $40 Million in 2000, but then Cost+ happened

>>12257119
Elon ain't sharing shit with them. I mean theoretically yes? But no. Plus congress will probably just mandate they switch to shekeldyne if BE-4 doesn't pan out

>>12257123
To be fair I’d rather use the Shekeldyne engines just to give Bezos the finger

>>12257122
I suspect the answer is "SSME has always been horrifically expensive" because LOOK AT THE HYDROGEN TURBOPUMP DESIGN WHAT THE FUCK

>>12257122
>So either A) SSMEs were always bumfuck expensive and NASA just presented 1980 cost figures or B) It really was $40 Million in 2000, but then Cost+ happened
Both still seem sad. God damnit NASA needs to get it's shit together and kick out the rot from within even if it pisses off everyone all the way to Congress. Their SLS antics took space away from America for a decade and only made things worse outside of commercial spaceflight.

>>12257117
When constellation got killed it sent NASA a message to just shut up and give congress what they wanted. They knew that a new kerosene booster would be a better long-term choice (look at team 2 here http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/sls4.html ) but NASA was beaten down and they were just going to give congress whatever they wanted. And congress wanted shuttle-derived.

>hey anon, do you want to go to Mars? We have room for one more on Starship.

It’s the first flight there. Do you get on board?

>>12257138
Only if I get to build the piss airlocks there.

>>12257138
I’d rather die trying to get to space than never going at all

Why can astronauts in the john at the Shackleton Crater industrial park check their Neopets but I can't get service at the Valero in the gully

>>12257118
I wonder if they will bring the production in-house. It would be a typical Elon response, but it would divert resources from SS

>>12257142
>Hydrolox gas stations

>>12257132
NASA's autistic rage toward the Shuttle-C will always perplex me.
>Shuttle derived SLS is hard because we have to redesign the tank for loads on top instead of the side
SO WHY NOT JUST PUT IT ON THE SIDE LIKE THE SHUTTLE

>>12257138
In a fucking heartbeat. I'm getting so old that my transfer window is closing.

>>12257150
Shuttle C was cool but it wasn’t perfect. It could put 72 tons into LEO, and 80 with the 5 segment boosters. 80 tons is not “that” much when talking about things like mars missions

>>12257138
As long as they give me a Nubian beauty as a companion

>>12257155
>80 tons is not “that” much when talking about things like mars missions
well it's a good thing no one at nasa was or is seriously talking about mars missions either

>>12257150
>NASA's autistic rage toward the Shuttle-C will always perplex me.
It made sense back then. Before the ISS, the Shuttle was struggling to have a reason to exist and Shuttle-C would've ended up being a cheaper and better Shuttle. However, it would also end American manned spaceflight, and NASA didn't want to lose that capability so they had the design rejected.

>>12257155
SLS block 1 (the only SLS that will ever fly) can only yeet 95 tons. Was the decades and decades of development worth 15 tons?

>>12257165
>Was the decades and decades of development worth 15 tons?
That was the new standard for spaceflight before SpaceX came along. Endless development for very small gain. All in the name of maintaining the industry while doing as little as possible. Maybe even obscure the past to be sure that no one catches on.

>>12256919
>boys and their toys

You could boil any advance in humanity down to this.

>Tesla/Edison... sigh, boys and their toys
>the Wright brothers and their toys
>Space Race... boys and their toys again
>the “internet”? Computers? Silly boys and their toys

Fuck people like her.

If any of you guys are looking for a good non-technical read, this is a great book.

The Dream of Spaceflight by Wyn Wachhorst

>>12257171
Somehow I suspect the Russians and Chinese were at fault for this.
>yes, yes, keep stagnant so we aren't chasing moving targets anymore
>have some more campaign donations laundered through US shell companies, Senator
This hypothesis also explains Rogozin's autistic tard rage about SpaceX. He thought he had finally secured a path for Russia to retain manned space dominance in the long term and keep cranking out Soyuz forever, but some weed smoking weeaboo made a reusable man-rated rocket that was CHEAPER than Soyuz per seat and reclaimed the STS-135 flag. Now Roscosmos is back to their old Soviet potemkin space program tricks with TEM and Nauka and Elon is building fucking Mars colony boats in a field in Texas.

>>12257187
Islam is right about women.

>>12256846
Calling it a ball of shit is a bit strong anon. It actually seemed to work quite well

>>12256103
>>Solar flare
>>No problemo just point tank towards the sun to protect
You literally cannot do this anyway, that's not how solar charged particle radiation works.

>>12257208
Kek yeah I’m definitely picking this up now

>>12257228
That's a hell of an endorsement.

>>12257209

>Islam is right about women.

Dont go that far bro, for every Lori Garver, there's a Gwynne Shotwell.

>>12257209

Let Rogozin rage on and on, either he'll man up and make Roscosmos great again or it will end up being UK-tier. Maybe some oligarch will start its own SpaceX-like company.

>>12257228
Let me guess, he's mad at the idea of people going to space instead of giving black people 1000 dollars a week for being alive?

Imagine how quickly these threads will go during Artemis or a Mars mission

>>12257236
Why the fuck did Boing! stop making 747s again?

>>12257242
fuel efficiency, mostly

>>12257241
They'd need a whole board to contain the autism. Maybe one day people will post on 4chan from Mars. Imagine...

>>12257208
Any good online book sources for this?

>>12257045
My point was more like:
Not a full flow staged combustion engine with 300 bar chamber pressure, but some simpler preburner and lower chamber pressure.
No need to use such advanced engines in a disposeable 1st stage.

>>12257242
The economics of Air travel have changed in the last 10 years to prefer super efficient mid sized jets that have near the same range as large jets, and flying them on more direct uncommon routes, like atlanta to des moines, instead of Atlanta to Chicago, then a small flight to Des Moines;
it's cheaper to just run a bunch of 737s 757s, and a320s, versus a small fleet of 747s and a380s

>>12257242

Quadjets became too expensive in a world with large twinjets (See the 777). Also, the 747-8 is still being made but 2/3 of the orders are the cargo variants. Not as glamerous but oh so usefull.

>>12257242
747s are aesthetically god-tier but they’re a headache to fly, and the aerodynamics on newer aircraft are far more fuel efficient

I do wish we had more double-decker planes though.

>>12257128
How does that specific tubopump look like?

>>12257268
I was actually a little wrong, specifically the problem is with the oxygen turbopump – which is on the same shaft as the hydrogen rich preburner for it. Which means the shaft needs to be sealed against hot high pressure atomic hydrogen.

>>12257138
Yes.

>>12257228
Tecla Spiller deserves a bolt to the back of the head, at least they can be useful as plant fertilizer. Fucking faggot.

>>12257276
>Which means the shaft needs to be sealed against hot high pressure atomic hydrogen.
How many decades have we wasted on the Shuttle stack and LH2NTR paper rockets when we could use LCH4 and avoid this nightmare?

>>12257276
Have a slightly higher res version. The powerhead is a fucking autismal maze to prevent hydrogen leakage.

>>12257288
More.

>>12257286
American space innovation died with von Braun and was only restarted by Musk. Without based space daddy we'd be HAPPY about New Shepard and Spaceship Two. We'd be EXCITED for SLS.

>>12257276
Why not use an oxygen rich preburner that burns so oxygen rich that combustion temperatures drop to manageable levels?

>>12257160
This

>>12257300
3hard5oldspace

Seriously, American metallurgists didn't really think an oxygen rich preburner was possible without running turbopump-rich inadvertently. They somehow decided a hydrogen preburner on a LOX turbine was easier than finding a metal hot gaseous oxygen won't eat.

>>12257296
>New Shepard

That’s a pretty based name though.

Tony Bela's art just keeps growing more powerful.

>>12257310
Yeah but Bezos' Fantastic Reusable Suborbital Micropenis is a more apt description

>>12257308
>>
>Seriously, American metallurgists didn't really think an oxygen rich preburner was possible without running turbopump-rich inadvertently.
In fairness even with SpaceX magic alloys that happened the first few times to Raptor.

>>12257308
I mean, if you run oxygen rich and cool down the hot combustion products with liquid oxygen, the temperatures get rather manageable.
The phase-change alone should increase the volume sufficiently to tun a turbine and pump the oxygen turbopump.

Alternatively, use a singe turbine that runs fuel rich and powers the hydrogen fuel pump as well as a generator that powers the oxygen fuel pump.
(Or just have a fucking air gap between pump and turbine)

>>12257301
No furry shit on my Christian bible study forum

ABLATIVE TURBOPUMPS CONTAINING ALUMINUM PARTICLES FOR INCREASED COMBUSTION EFFICIENCY

>>12257312
The camera from Starship will be so awesome once they release the footage.

Okay last one I promise. I just love doing this in my free time

>>12257350
why not build it in KSP/RO?

>>12257057
what's with hydrolox engines having pitiful thrust given their size? Not even the RS-25 is immune, while engines like the delta IV's rs-68 are downright embarrassing.

>>12257359
My KSP files an hero'd after installing a bootleg russian engine mod. I open it up and my computer fan goes lightspeed until it just crashes. I can't revert it either

WHATCHU LOOKING AT BOI

>>12257368
>delet all files
>redownload game
>follow RO instructions
>???
>working install
Installing RORP1 is a lot easier than it used to be

>>12257350
Would the cost of this booster IRL be half a billion or would it be higher?

>>12257379
>tankage by Lockheed
It would cost a billion dollars, 80% of which would be painstakingly hand carved aluminum isogrid.

Is there any single technological fad that held spaceflight back more than "lighter at any cost" manufacturing?

We should make machined isogrids illegal.

>>12257365
Mass flow rate. Hydrogen is very bad at density, so you need to pump a million metric fuck-liters of it to get one metric fuckton of hydrogen. So the engine components needed for it have to be lolhuge for their thrust compared to denser fluids like RP1 or CH4.

>>12257388
I'm not familiar with what you are talking about. Elaborate.

>>12257379
>>12257382
Idk who else could build a tank and give us a deal. Lockheed would probably not fuck you if you told them you needed like 10 tanks at the lowest cost specifically to fuck over boeing.

>>12257399
And then somebody says "hey wait a minute, why don't we slap some SRBs on the side to make up for the low sea level thrust!" without going the logical next step and just making the SRBs (or kerolox boosters) the entire first stage.

>>12257388
Not the fault. The fault lies in not seeking cost optimizations from the management/organizational perspective. The failure of a product doesnt lie with engineers, but the management directing it.

>>12257405
>Idk who else could build a tank and give us a deal.
Do like SpaceX did and make cheap steel tanks out of 304L.
>Lockheed would probably not fuck you if you told them you needed like 10 tanks at the lowest cost specifically to fuck over boeing.

>>12257401
Oldspace has, since way back in the Titan era, used painstakingly machined single sheets of aluminum isogrid to build tanks. Machined from ONE PIECE OF ALUMINUM. Every little grid squared is MILLED OUT.

They switched to this from stringer tanks (like Soyuz uses) and balloon tanks (which have their own problems, but are light and made of steel).

>>12256740
Of course not, the Sun is plasma, not gas.

>>12257418
>Oldspace has, since way back in the Titan era, used painstakingly machined single sheets of aluminum isogrid to build tanks. Machined from ONE PIECE OF ALUMINUM. Every little grid squared is MILLED OUT.
To put this in more accessible terms, oldspace tanks are $1500 AR lower receivers painstakingly milled from organic fair-trade single blocks of aluminum, whereas SpaceX is making stamped AKs at like 0.1% the unit cost.
>ROCKET IS FINE

>>12257418
Look at this shit. Sure, it's super strong for it's weight, and approached composite in stiffness, but AT WHAT COST. Just use steel lol.

>>12257418
So they took a long time to make and were extremely expensive? Doesn't sound practical, but I don't see a reason to ban it, or even how one would go about banning it.

>>12257312
>retro-style starship art
my fucking dick

>>12257437
I wish I had even half the talent to make something like this. The learning curve has got to be huge. So beautiful

Bennu images stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKI0QRb8LVo

>>12257410
>>12257399
do other fuels need less insulation than hydrogen? Asking because I know that the orange tank's insulation falling off was a problem.

>>12256875
Doubtful. It's probably like detecting a truck crash from hundreds of miles away.

>>12257452
They don't need ANY except the steel itself. Look at Starship, it's literally ALL stainless steel except the moving parts and TPS.

>>12257452
Yeah the orange foam is on there because hydrogen is so god damn small it can literally leak through solid metal. And then you have problems a la shuttle where the foam tears off and hits your orbiter and tears a hole in the wing and kills the crew

>>12257463
Fuck I forgot to add the main answer. Some fuels require insulation but it’s mainly just simple insulation- NOTHING as crazy as foam. Elon is flying rockets with literally just stainless steel

>>12257434
If Congress can mandate which specific engine serial numbers SLS will use, Congress can ban isogrids.

>>12257431
Looks pretty.

>>12257477
>gridfins steer lift produced by the first stage
cylinders aren't lifting bodies dude from a few days ago btfo

>>12257467
So methalox doesn't require ANY insulation? even when superchilled?

>>12257484
It'll boil off in space over a period of weeks but that's what the internal header tanks are for. Starship has no other insulation than that.

>>12257483
Lmao that was me

Why can't you build a re-condenser into the rocket itself? Too heavy/large/energy intensive?

>>12256915
>Turns out concrete creates CO2 while curing for months
Literally the opposite.
Concrete absorbs CO2 to form calcium carbonate, and when you have a sealed volume of air inside with a limited amount of carbon dioxide, that becomes a major carbon sink. Carbon dioxide being absorbed and locked into concrete does not get split into oxygen to make sugars in plants, which means less oxygen to breathe and less food to eat.
On Mars this is no issue because even if they have some kind of weird carbon sink nobody thought of, they have no arbitrary mandate to keep the doors closed, so to speak. They can just suck up some CO2 from outside, compress it, and spray it into the habitat to keep the plants happy.

>>12256768
based Braunposter

>>12257444
Yeah

Isn’t there supposed to be a star link launch today

>>12257550
No.

>>12257552
got pushed back to tomorrow. electron launch in a few hours though.

bros I don't want chris to leave the station. I think hes my favorite of recent astronauts.

>>12257053
Wrong, nigger. They've done full duration burns. The 'blowing up' you're referring to is in their chamber-pressure-push test program, where they're basically revving the engine as hard as it can until something breaks, then redesigning that thing, then revving the next engine even higher. Rinse and repeat, end up with an engine that can comfortably out-perform literally anything else in terms of chamber pressure without wearing down. Raptor is already capable of sustaining 250 bar basically forever, which is more than enough to make the SSH launch vehicle economical.

>>12257565
Don’t forget 90 seconds of 300 bar is more then enough for the first stage

>>12257059
>Performance wise the SSME is the best engine ever made.
In what regard? It's not the most efficient (RL-10 slaps it, and even the Soviet RS-25 knockoff is more efficient), it's definitely not got the highest TWR (only ~75 weak shit), it's not the highest thrust even for a hydrolox engine, it's not the most reliable, it's not cheap, it's not fast to build, it's bulky as fuck, honestly it's just good enough in all ways to be shitty compared to most other options.

>>12257138
Yes. Once we land then I will take over and claim all of Mars in my name and no one else’s.

>>12257564
He would make for a superb lunar astronaut. Veteran astronaut but still young enough to make it to the Moon. Leader. I could honestly see him slotted in as a commander or something. Surely they won't just be launching 30-something year olds there who have never even been the the ISS before.

>>12257577
>Hey Chris wanna fly on the SLS?
>No.

>>12257565
You don't need to call someone a nigger just because they made an honest mistake.

I assume Boca will eventually have a custom crane that can grab and mate starship parts / SS's to super heavy. Hope it's made out of stainless steel

>>12257598
No but it's fun to.

how do you write an entire book about a boom with a few servos on it
https://twitter.com/howellspace/status/1318534152455622657?s=20

>>12257517
This, also the production of cement is what produces the CO2, not when it's curing.

>>12257598
Nigger hands typed this post.

>>12257610
Canadarm inch worming is cool though

>>12257614
That rabbit is shitting itself