/sci/ - Science & Math

>lol

Post Salty

>>12245570
>>12245573
astronigger mind

NRO vs GPS
Which flies first, fellas?

>>12245561

>>12245576
As I understand it SpaceX has to do a full review/replacement of supplier turbomachinery parts from a certain date, the delta IV just needs to get ground equipment unfucked, so probably NRO

Static fire today right

>>12245570
>>12245573
>Oh noes, I can't look at stars anymore!!!
just look at the sun dude, like wtf?

More salty...

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Starlink&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

>>12245597
the sun is RUINING astronomy. EVERY FUCKING DAY it comes out and ruins all my pictures. It has no right to DESTROY our night sky

>>12245577
kek

>>12245597
I don't know what their problem is, I've seen the stars my whole life but sat-spotting is more exciting. Seeing my first Starlink train going across the sky was awesome, I only wish the new ones didn't have those fucking sunshields, let 'em shine whoa let 'em shine.

Why do the astrofags never complain about (((cities))) and their light pollution though?

>>12245594
everyday bro

>>12245609
They only hate what they've been told to hate

>>12245600
All launches will now need global approval. Gotta have a consensus from every country in the world.

>>12245609
Used to see it all the time, guess it dropped out of vogue now because of the need to make it seem as if the world was a perfect place for astronomy and then the SpaceX nation came

>>12245600
>consult globally
I think that the amount of people wanting better internet will overshadow some whiny cunts

>>12245609
Or meteor showers, which are more annlying since streaks are irregular. At least for starlink you know when sats will pass so software can account for it

>>12245609
They did, but they quietly stopped when it wasn't getting much attention.

>>12245600
>consult global community
>the majority of the world with shit fucking internet agrees to let Musk do whatever he wants
These people don't think very far forward.

>>12245614
oopsie china says starlink is cancelled. pack up bros

>>12245609
(((trends)))

>>12245624
All you need is a billionaire to do something positive for poor people to make them hate poor people. Well, to show it, since they always did.

>>12245600
>Masker
>Fag flag
>EU flag
>Extreme collectivist values the opinions of eight billion random fuckos more than technology which could greatly improve all of their lives by giving them nearly free internet access in places where it would be previously impossible.
It's like fucking clockwork. I've also noticed another pattern with these people, not a single one of them (who I've seen) has ever, EVER contributed anything of significance to the field of astronomy. They buy a $1200 telescope off of Amazon to plug into their Ishit phone and play around with to look at celestial objects real astronomers put in all the effort and hard work to discover.

the only astroniggers complaining are true amateurs. not even Thunderf00t himself has sunk so low as to disparage Starlink.

>orbital telescopes are too expensive to try
>yes master hawaiians here is some more money for us using your sacred mountains

>>12245585
>Probably NRO
not with those 7 ground equipment failures it isn't, 99% chance something new aborts the launch again

>>12245629
>It's like fucking clockwork
This archtype of NPC has been solidifying over the past few years, I think the programming has been completed and now they walk among us.

Just wait till the moon has a couple lot up manned bases on it so there won’t be a true new moon ever again lol

>>12245628
the poor are their property, they're not supposed to defy their betters

>>12245649
Imagine seeing lights of the moon bases during a solar eclipse (or new moon)

>>12245649
Holy shit can't wait for this.

>>12245649

>>12245649
>year 2046
>tfw far side moon colonist, can’t see the urf ever

>>12245653
>>12245654
>>12245661
My niggas

>>12245661
>>12245649

Imagine the level of seethe if those were SpaceX colonies.

>>12245661
Does anyone have the bottom picture alone, without the above meme? It's such a cool picture (and I can't believe I'm gonna be able to see it in my lifetime.)

>>12245667
They will be

>>12245668

>>12245664
The back side of the Moon is actually perfect for space observation since there is no atmosphere or city lights.

>>12245673
very based, thanks. Can't wait to see this in real life.

>>12245675
This is a cool idea and it should've been done years ago let's fucking GOOOO

>>12245675
also there are no natives to have to bribe to use the area

>>12245675
>shitty rover anchors

>>12245687
>oogabooga moon our god gib money for using god as big eye

>>12245707
Not gonna happen.

>probe are panicking about satellites in orbit
>There are only like 3 thousand satellites in orbit
Lmao

>>12245733
Stuff like this gets normies really spooked about running out of room in space https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/j7pj62/oc_one_hour_of_active_satellites_orbiting_earth/

>>12245738
>running out of room in space
This sentence hurts to process.

>>12245738
>Eat dot is the size of a small country, like Lesotho or Belgium
People who make infographics without keys for scale should get beaten

>>12245676
Not sure if this is some kind of meme but you're not going to be able to see shit from Earth

God dammit I fucking hate twitter.

>>12245768
Social media was a mistake.

>>12245768
>>12245789
It should be destroyed, utterly and finally.

>>12245790
This

>>12245789
Despite only making up 2.2% of the population...

>>12245766
>big spacex logo made of lasers perpetually pointing at earth
>big swastika

>>12245766
through small telescopes you might be able to in a couple decades

>>12245609
Trust me, they did. But it's just such a losing battle. Which is a shame, because the sky is beautiful.

>>12245629
>amateur astronomy is bad!!!
Holy shit dude, if people are interested enough in space to spend 1,200 dollars to look at cool stuff in it, be happy. Any attention is good attention, especially for something this niche. Most people who are actually into astronomy are hard-core trekkies and nerds who would cut off their right arm to see any kind of real progress made in space. The anti-starlink people are just a small segment looking for attention, which you give them.

I know I got into space buying a $130 dollar telescope and fucking around on CloudyNights as a kid. Satellite watching is cool when it's a couple an hour, but as long as SpaceX can put some visors on them, I'm happy.

>>12245806
Some kind of laser flashing out morse code on the dark side of an evening crescent moon would be unparalleled kino.

>>12245808
I hope pollution blocks the stars forever so idiots like you get triggered

>>12245808
Just move to the moon bro lmao stop being a bitch

>>12245830
Based provocateur

>>12245804
GIANT MOON SWASTIKA

starlink is a global surveillance tool disguised as an "alternative internet network" or some shit. prove me wrong. protip: you can't.

>>12245845
wtf spacebros is this true???

>Anon... am I fat?

>>12245857
You're not fat, you are thicc

>>12245804
>>12245844
>Get /pol/ crowdfunding for our own space program by launching swastika satellite
>Add in laser to blast Israel with
>Colonize the entire inner system within 4 years

>>12245845
>10000 hubbles pointing at the earth
you can hear the astroniggers seething

>>12245844
bros it's real

>>12245845
Starlink satellites have no significant optics systems, they have neither opitcal cameras or thermal cameras. There, you're proven wrong.
In the future they could probably be used to coordinate surveillance satellite networks, however until that happens you haven't even got an argument to prove wrong, just a conjecture.

>>12245804

>>12245903
> Starlink satellites have no significant optics systems, they have neither opitcal cameras or thermal cameras

Prove it maybe they do and they lied about it BOOM

>>12245908
you can literally go look at the satellites in the webcast, they don't have any cameras on them

>>12245675
The far side of the Moon is interesting for radio telescopes, which don't care about city lights. The Moon is a shitty place for an optical or infrared telescope. Levitating dust, huge temperature swings, reduced sky access and increased cost. Somewhere like L2 is much better.

>>12245854
>>12245869
>>12245903
>they think surveillance = direct analog observation
>they don't know about indirect observation methods
also
>what is the NSA
hahahahAHAHAHA fucking techlets don't know shit
keep sucking Musks dick, retards.

>>12245600
>>12245570
>China: launches their own megaconstellation without even bothering with visorsats like Musk

>astronomers: ....

Starlink has been approved in Canada.
https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2020/lt201015.htm

SpaceX leaked a list of Starlink companies by countries (see pic)
https://old.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/jdgxto/spacex_reveals_all_foreign_affiliate_companies/

>>12245632
Hawaii is only one site, there are dozens of other good ones. The European ELT is larger and faces no objections. The problem with TMT was they never should have tried to build in burgerstan. Also note that TMT pays about 1 million a year to local causes, that is about what JWST costs every day.

>>12245930
>Hawaii is only one site, there are dozens of other good ones.

If sovereign control of the asset is even remotely of interest, that stops being true immediately. The people opposing TMT are just being retarded and trying to weaponize outrage politics for what's nothing more than NIMBYism.

>>12245609
They do. You're just retarded.
https://www.darksky.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark-sky_preserve
https://www.eso.org/public/news/eso1139/
https://www2.ifa.hawaii.edu/newsletters/article.cfm?a=328&n=28

>>12245903
The missile tracking layer of the space defense initiative would like to disagree, the bus can definitely be modified, and this is likely to also happen with the BlackJack spy sat constellation thats coming online.

https://youtu.be/DCEhQAgeVlM

>>12245942
TMT isn't a US telescope, it's an international observatory. The partners are Caltech, the University of California, Canada, Japan, China and India. Each partner has a roughly equal share, the US partners are the minority. There is currently no real support from the US government or federal funding.

Personal vacuum rated armor when?

>>12245600
>Consult globally
Brilliant idea when the world is full of complete fucking retards who believe in burning bushes, flat earths and actual physical firmaments that rockets would crash into.

Yes, let's ask those people.

>>12245570
i don't agree with this guy, but littering LEO to give 50mbps download to backwaters is fucking idiocy
it's not "the future", the future is fiber optics and radio links
this looks more like a DoD project funded by """free""" market means

>>12245929
>Starlink has been approved in Canada.
FUCK YEAH

>>12245971
120 Mb/s, anon

>>12245967
EMU is armor, multiple layers of it are entirely composed of ballistic fabric specifically to prevent it from being cut or pierced by high speed micrometeorite impacts.

>>12245971
>the future is fiber optics and radio links
The future is the least expensive path.

>>12245929
TIBRO?

>>12245971
>>12245987
Fiber works for dense suburbs
it doesn't work in old urban areas because nobody wants to pay to put it in
it doesn't work in rural areas because there aren't enough subscribers to support it
Starlink handles the later case
we can handle the former case by burning the cities down and killing all the rats that live in them

>>12245996
ORBIT

>>12246000
lol

>>12245971
Good luck trying to lay fiber across every road in the world.

>>12245981
i saw a statement with speedtest at 50D/10U

>>12245987
id doubt this is the least expensive pathto serve peripheries, since we have phone stations attached to XGPONs (implying /sci/ knows wtf i'm talking about)
but in any case, this project makes spacex "too big to fail" once DoD starts using it

>>12245997
LTE access points can serve rural areas better than this trash and with lower latency

>>12246010
>better and with lower latency
incorrect

>>12246013
k

>the future is the least expensive path
t.

>>12246026
>lemme just crash my car after my daily commute
>phew that sure is easier than parking it

>>12245930
>JWST
that's a bullshit SLS tier comparison and you know it, Starship allows the deployment of 9m optics without orgami oldspace silliness

>>12246010
>LTE access points can serve rural areas better than this trash and with lower latency
Found the scared old-telecom employee.

>>12245923
Considering the international outrage when China littered space with an anti-sat missile test, I doubt astronomers would be silent when/if China sends their megaconstellation.

>>12246020
>(You)

>>12246053
i live in a 40k citizen small city and the best we have is LTE, it has 15ms latency and 70mbps download, no datacap, 15€/month
let's see if the onions hero has littered LEO to do better than this

who will be the first prostitute on Mars?

>>12246061
>rural
>yurp
Your continent is smaller than my province, fuck off retard. You literally don't know what rural means.

>>12246061
starlink has no fucking chance in europe

>>12246061
>i live in a 40k citizen small city and the best we have is

You live in a hive city? Watch out for the mutants

>>12246066
(you)

>>12246050
>Starship allows the deployment of 9m optics without orgami oldspace silliness
No it won't. The maximum mirror diameter is always a lot smaller than the rocket diameter, even ignoring Starship's weird fairing. The largest monolithic telescope in 5.4 meter fairings was ESA's Herschel which was just 3.5 meters. Also note that NASA will have to build that telescope and it will take years and billions.

>>12246066
Your gf

>>12246061
>40k
>small city

>>12246061
cool, you're not the target market

>>12246076
>NASA will have to build that
the solution to that so far has been "have someone else do it with off the shelf parts for a fraction of the cost", why would that change here

>>12246076
>Also note that NASA will have to build that telescope and it will take years and billions.
Give this man a cost-plus contract!

>>12246078
(male)

>>12246080
Tfw lived in 5k town

>>12246080
in a smaller city LTE would be even faster and still be profitable
smartphones LTE modems can go up to 150mbps

Quite a contrast

>>12246066
Where will the first gay cruising location be on Mars?

>>12246091
LTE has a shit coverage area per tower and unlike in Yurop, the real world has rural areas where individual houses are far apart. Kilometers or tens of kilometers apart. We don't do your retarded hamlet thing.

>>12246091
okay, so you're matching Starlink in best case comparisons

>>12246091
The problem is that in America smaller cities and towns tend to have more spread out population. Not even cell phone towers have adequate range to cover everyone.

t. grew up in a town of 1k

>when a yurpnoid tries to talk about rural areas

>>12246096
lmao starlink is not that good

>>12246098
my point for being a l4m3r is that the whole world is going to have these things orbiting over just to serve internet to remote location, where le epic reddit spaceman has the monopoly.
also as i said, DoD project

>>12246104
what's this
>>12246105
yes it is

>>12246083
Because NASA isn't using off the shelf for flagship telescopes. It clearly can't be used for major components, no one is building 9 meter optics.

>>12246085
I have no faith in their ability to change. It's not just JWST, SOFIA was also a clusterfuck. WFIRST is also way over budget.

>>12246105

>>12246109
>what's this
A map of Canada (population, 30M) overlaid on Europe so you hopefully understand why "service all of rural canada with cell towers" is a retarded idea

>>12246076
Judging by that, the largest telescope for any given fairing would be 64% of the fairing's actual diameter, meaning that Starship with a 9m fairing could effectively carry a 5.74m wide telescope. Thus, if you built a telescope which unfolds in the same way JWST does, you could fit a 9.5m unfolding telescope into a Starship.
What would make a lot more sense though is to use telescopes with their objective made of a highly reflective fabric which can unfold to much larger sizes. Now obviously imperfections in this flexible material will be much greater than in the nearly-perfect but hyper-expensive objective plates of something like JWST, however these unfurling telescopes could be manufactured in much larger quantities, they would be substantially lighter than telescopes with solid polished metal or glass objectives, and they could then be coordinated using software to form much larger virtual objective lenses.
Pack each one into a 2x5m form factor, stack ten of them into Starship, send it to LEO, refuel it in orbit and then send the ship to L2 and have it deploy the satellites there, they will then use small onboard RTG/Stirling electric powerplants and MPD reaction control to maneuver themselves into a very wide spread but even formation, creating a massive virtual optic several kilometers across.
Once deployed even these individually inferior telescopes could have massively greater resolving power.

>>12246104
90% (or was it 80%) of leafs live within 100km from US border

>>12246118
ah, I see

>>12246105
>my point for being a l4m3r is that the whole world is going to have these things orbiting over just to serve internet to remote location, where le epic reddit spaceman has the monopoly.
No, your point was that LTE's were "good enough". Also, other constellations are coming up such as Blue Origin's Kuiper.

>>12246105
You're retarded. Unlike Iridium it's too expensive and overfit for a DoD project, also it requires constant launches to replace the old satellites. Musk wouldn't do it unless he had a solid business plan in mind.

>>12246010
>LTE access points can serve rural areas better than this trash and with lower latency
this. the real issue here is that the US is a corrupt third world shithole where politicians sell themselves to corporations (ISPs among those), and US citizens don't take any responsibilities beyond voting (for two parties that are more or less the same thing).
a single LTE antenna has a range of up to 100km
plus, all of the constellation crap was created by the US military. they just found the perfect excuses: "humanitarian reasons" (the usual, easiest, most obvious argument) and "muh rural internet"

>>12246050
You retard, the astronomers have already designed EVEN LARGER origami probes and studied launching them on Starship (LUVOIR)

>>12245968
You don't value the opinion of your fellow monkey?

>>12246127
DoD project payed by customers*

>>12246010
Those are for beta testers who got 50mbps for free. They've later tested 120mbps as well as applying for 300Mbps via the Japanese starlink documents .

How would Martian colonies be administered? Something like how Russia does it?

>>12246137
By this definition most forms of communication are DoD projects, in which case calling Starlink one is meaningless.

>>12245968
*tips fedora*

>>12246130
Which will launch first? JWST on SLS or LUVIOIR on Starship?

>>12246127
>he thinks military/intelligence projects cannot and are not disguised as commercial programs
americans are so brainwashed and naive...
go read history books and documents. the kind of shit your government has done for global dominance goes beyond what normal people and organizarions can do.

>>12245923
>astronomers: stop being racist against CCCP

>>12246144
like a ship in international waters or an antarctic station I suppose

>>12246145
starlink cannot be cutoff like bgp nodes

>>12246043
crashing your car is expensive. the least expensive would be to just park your car. i dont think you're very smart, anon

>>12246111
>I have no faith in their ability to change. It's not just JWST, SOFIA was also a clusterfuck. WFIRST is also way over budget.
When the bar to access space lowers there is a strong possibility of cheaper simpler telescopes being made by groups who aren't part of the "old gang" of aerospace. That is going to make others realize that so much more can be done by cheaper and faster to develop missions. That is of course if learning more about the universe around us is the primary goal of some of the big players in aerospace rather than funnel funds to constituents.

>>12246111
how tf can wfirst be overbudget? i thought it was an already built spy sat. they literally just need to make sensors, what the FUCK are they doing????

>>12246155
good

>>12246149
Oldspace will take at least a decade to make ONE Luvoir. They still dont understand that you could make a dozen Luvoirs and not be autisticly carefull to be sure they all work perfectly. Just mass produce them and let Spacex launch them.

>>12246158
Crashing a car is expensive because cars today are made to be reusable. Expendable cars can easily be much cheaper per-unit than reusable cars to the point where it could be viable to simply crash them once the driving is over. Especially if you don't drive much in the first place.

>>12246167
t. Bruno

>>12246166
remember wat ol musky said, mass production is way harder than a single prototype. need some sort of dedicated astronomy company to specialize in mass telescope production

>>12246154
Antarctic stations don’t have permanent populations or extract resources, though, and aren’t far enough away or large enough to have any sort of native government. Surely you might form committees of some sort and organize regions into administrative categories

>>12246167
Meanwhile in reality the least expensive rocket in use is also the most reusable one, and the least expensive rocket in development is also the most reusable one while still being in the realm of an order of magnitude more expensive to expend than reuse. The comparison doesn't even do justice to how retarded it is because the car isn't dashed into the ocean or put into a graveyard orbit around the earth afterwards, never to be seen or studied, further rendering the operator unable to drive down costs, nevermind that he's too fucking retarded to put any value in doing that anyway.
I know this is a troll post but goddamn it got me

>launch hundreds of space telescopes
>ruin the night sky
>demand increases for space telescopes
>launch thousands of space telescopes
bros this could work

>>12246119
>Thus, if you built a telescope which unfolds in the same way JWST does, you could fit a 9.5m unfolding telescope into a Starship.
Yes, but that would fall under the category of "origami bullshit". Note that NASA estimates the cost of the cost of LUVOIR B (8 meters) is estimated at between 12 and 20 billion.
> they could then be coordinated using software to form much larger virtual objective lenses.
Nope. Interferometry at optical/infrared wavelengths cannot be done in software. It can only be done by directly combining the light, which requires flying telescopes in formation of extreme precision. The technology has never been demonstrated in space. Note that having shitty telescopes will still cause problems for an interferometer.

Also interferometers come with huge problems. They have tiny fields of view. They are extremely limited in ways other than resolution.

>>12246128
>a single LTE antenna has a range of up to 100km
The fact that you think ideal best case sunny day range of 60 miles is adequate proves you don't understand shit about the US.

>>12246164
>how tf can SLS be overbudget? i thought it was already built shuttle parts. they literally just need to make tanks, what the FUCK are they doing????

>>12246149
LUVOIR cannot begin until JWST is launched. No room in the budget. Also note they're talking 2040.

>>12246197
Yeah LUVOIR will never be built. Why astronomers don't assemble these pieces of shit in space is a mystery to me. why they dont opt for an array of cheap telescopes is also a mystery

>>12246076
>The largest monolithic telescope in 5.4 meter fairings was ESA's Herschel which was just 3.5 meters
So a Starship launched monolithic telescope would have a diameter of around 5.83 meters? That's about nine-tenths smaller than JWST's primary lens, and still an impressive size without even considering mass production.

>>12245661
I DE SA MORGENEN JEG

>>12246206
>why they dont opt for an array of cheap telescopes is also a mystery
pic rel

>>12246164
It was literally just a set of mirrors and the supporting structure. Everything else had to be built. It's not a satellite yet. Also because the mirror was bigger than they originally planned the whole mission got more expensive. And then they added a second instrument, costing even more.

>>12246202
I will be very surprised if LUVOIR manages to get funding after the debacle that is JWST, it's already scarred astronomy for the next decade or so

>>12246104
Your point? Russia is about two times bigger than Canada.

Space Telescope / 5G General. Every time.

>>12246128
>reeeee dah military bad reeeee buy my cell towers goy
Can Europeans stop posting here? You don't have a real space program. You don't have a real military. And you don't have anything to add. All you do is screech at companies and countries that actually get things done. Go masturbate to a map of Brussles or whatever.

>>12246233
we will catch up, then you will be sorry

>>12246190
neither will mars
in our lifetime anyway

>>12246229
Not in Europe it isn't

>>12246236
>yurop will catch up
ah yes, the french are still trying to get ahead

get it

ahead

because a french schoolteacher was decapitated in broad daylight for insulting Muhammed

>>12246236
China has a better chance of catching up than Europe. Every European with balls either moved to America or died in the world wars.

>>12246150
from https://www.vice.com/en/article/4ayz3d/spacexs-starlink-wont-fix-americas-broken-broadband-market
>In addition to the 42 million Americans that lack access to broadband, another 83 million are currently stuck under a broadband monopoly, usually Comcast. Tens of millions more only have the duopoly choice of cable broadband or DSL.

honestly, I like starlink if it weren't such shit for other reasons, but I think it's obvious that not all political problems cannot be fixed by more competition. in fact, you'll probably end up replacing some corrupt corporation with another one. or maybe even worse: they will end up merging/buying one each other (as has happened in the past) and you'll be even MORE fucked.

americans love shiny techie stuff, but you retards fall for marketing bullshit all the time, and your own politicians make loads of money thanks to corrupt corporations and their marketing lol

>>12246233
>You don't have a real military
kek, go read a history book nigger

>>12246236
Hahahaha

>>12246251
>go read a history book
You're right, Europe hasn't managed anything impressive since America bailed you out from total Soviet occupation in 1945. You then managed to scrap all the important history and fall into total irrelevancy within 50 years. Congratulations! Because of you, the only place we can see HMS Warspire is history books!

>>12246259
>the only place we can see HMS Warspire is history books
:(

>>12246229
How much of the Russian hinterlands have LTE signal?

>>12246236
Is there anything less threatening than a european talking about catching up? Your rocket industry turned its nose up at reusability because it would be too efficient.

>>12246251
>vice.com
yikes

>>12246214
Probably smaller. Herschel was a far infrared observatory so the mirror didn't require any support structure or baffling around it. An optical telescope would probably have to be smaller.

>>12246246
ok but muslims are pretty based for that since they stand up for their beliefs

>>12246251
>it's obvious that not all political problems cannot be fixed by more competition
More competition is literally the only sustainable way to fix monopolies.

>>12246224
It won't happen. NASA can really only afford 5 billion.

>>12246261
>the only surviving major WW2 surface combatant in Yurop is a fucking LIGHT CRUISER
>and it only survived because Britain was so fucking povvo they kept it in service way past the expiration date

meanwhile in America

>>12246274
>literally leftypol talking points
t-10 to ranting about chuds

>>12246281
even the dumbed down luvoir b isnt going anywhere. these foldout fucks should just stop wasting everyone's time

>>12246251
Cable broadband is fine from a technical perspective. I get good latency, enough speed that my network isn't the bottleneck for anything except multi gigabyte uploads, true uncapped bandwidth even at multiple terabytes per month, and I get an IPv6 /60. Is it expensive? Yes. But I get my money's worth.

>>12246274
you're right in that Muslims are less cucked than Yurp (being 15th century savages and all), but if Yurp was still Europe you'd have crusaded the savages back to Antioch.

>>12246270
>I'll reject your arguments because I don't like your sources
/sci/ - """Science""" & """Math"""

>>12246278
or to BUILD more, bigger monopolies.

>>12246293
and LTE is a good solution/compromise to rural internet.

>>12246287
compared to the french I mean. i personally feel we should glass the middle east. maybe france too

>>12246293
tbf unless you have a really awful monopoly provider and are willing to take a speed hit (ie comcast, shaw, etc) starlink probably won't replace cable broadband

>>12246297
>or to BUILD more, bigger monopolies.
What do you propose to break up monopolies then?

>>12246297
>LTE
>rural internet
You keep posting this over and over but you also think "rural" means a medium sized city of 40,000. It doesn't. Rural means you can fire machine guns wildly in the air and not worry about the neighbors hearing. Rural in Yurp is not the same a rural in the rest of the world.

>>12246297
>and LTE is a good solution/compromise to rural internet
It's really not. Even in best case scenarios in actual rural areas you're going to get at most 20Mbps and higher latency than starlink.

>>12246297
NIGGER

>>12246307
Assuming we follow the European solution, use government regulations to attack any businesses that threaten the already established, state-backed monopolies.

>>12246297
>and LTE is a good solution/compromise to rural internet.
No, not even cell service gives good coverage in some rural areas of the US.

>>12246307
Authoritarian communist governance

>>283360226
Wooaaah

>>12246297
LMAO you're fucking retarded

>>12246321
That's just an internet telecom monopoly with more steps

>>12246269
>Is there anything less threatening than a european talking about catching up?
Their militaries.

>>12246323
based time traveler anon

Here's the real question, how long until some madlad anon gets Starlink rangebanned?

>>12245738
Running out of space in space...
What the fuck?
LEO alone has hundreds of billions of kilometers of volume, i can't even begin to imagine 1% of that taken up by satelites..

>>12246331
Starlink will be cheap enough to buy Passes to evade rangebans.

>>12246331
OHNONONONO

>>12246335
your average normie isn't sapient
they don't think deeply about much of anything

>>12246335
if u think u can just litter in space, ur part of the problem

>starlink
>$400 antennas
>cheap

>>12246331
>"I hate Selenians so god damn much."
>future admin of 4channel lamenting about shitposters on the moon that are using Starlink

Rather unfortunate thumbnail.

>>12246361
>I go check it out
>It’s some old ass dude singing offkey
what the fuck?

>>12246364

>>12246343
That's cheaper than next gen gaming consoles :^)

>>12246238
BS. There’ll be dudes there by the 40s

>>12246238
Are you 95?

>>12246343
I spent more than that on making a rocket motor and I don't even have a job.

>>12246246
>>12246257
>>12246269
>>12246249

didn't yurop catch up already years ago?
i think black science man had it written in his book that the us was almost begging yurop to get in on a new european gps thing

>>12246230
First time I’m hearing this discussion In sfg and I don’t miss many threads. Cry more bro.

>>12246010
Ruralfags like me are stuck with ADSL and 10mbit/s so Starlink is more than welcome.

>>12246390
I can't even laugh at this, it's just a sad reflection of europeans' complete lack of perspective. I don't know if you're lucky or done a grave disservice that we're around to maintain the relevance of your shambling corpse

>>12246249
>'Balls'
>Biggest waste of military might in human history

>>12246273
that looks fucking awesome

>>12246408
>>12246390
what was black science man talking about?

all these people shitting on ESA in this thread...
From what i understand ESA does a lot of succesfull misions with only a fraction of the budget that NASA has.
And when spaceX takes over the private rocket market, then the frogs will be forced to come up with a rocket that can keep up with starship or lose their place as topdog in ESA.

>>12246423
War is badass

>>12245573
Someone tell this guy that space based telescopes are the future.

>>12246434
hell yeah broder

>>12246431
yeah i don't like it either
esa's gaia space survey was one of the most useful spacecraft ever launched when going by the observations that reference the data it provides

>>12246431
>And when spaceX takes over the private rocket market, then the frogs will be forced to come up with a rocket that can keep up with starship or lose their place as topdog in ESA.
ESA is great and all, but I thought that the EU has disallowed SpaceX from providing launches for ESA so Ariane can stay afloat?

>>12246285
>just learned America is the only nation with battleship museums
Wtf happened? I get that Japan's all got sunk during the war but literally no one else?
Tangentially related but once again fuck congress for destroying iconic heritage pieces of the American space program.

>>12246431

Arianespace exec has said that it wont try to compete with SpaceX and produce their own copy of Falcon 9 (Let allone Starship) because it would cost too many jobs.

So Project Retalt is seemingly a paper project and the French are done for in the long run when it comes to commercial activities. Vega-C and Ariane-6 will only be serving French (military) missions with the Falcon 9/SS replacing the current Soyuz ST's in ESA's lineup.

>>12245929
I’m amazed that starling got approved in Canada. The Canadian government has a tendency to shield their telecommunications companies from competition. But looks like the benefits to rural and northern populations outweighed that.

>>12246431
The point for ESA to provide a competitor has come and gone, they have fully embraced stagnation. "They'll just start competing because they have to" is circular reasoning that ignores the fact that they can and will simply lose all relevance.

>>12246440
>noooooooo, think of all the CO2 that all the bombs release

>>12246434
It's not an anti-war statement

>>12246443
ESA was great in the 90s but they have literally no new capabilities since then other than a slightly up rated Ariane. They even canceled their ISS resupply vehicle. NASA retired the Shuttle but now we have three separate companies building serious cryogenic rockets, two of which have man rated boosters, and that's not even counting Starship.

>>12246459
>>12246465
EU will not be able to justify protecting the frogs&ariana rocket family when starships start lugging things to space for a fraction of the cost.
And honestly, i don't think that agencies like NASA ESA should be making rockets anyway, they should be doing science.

>>12246461
I think they will start making reusabele rockets when they lose protection from the EU, they just now for the moment that it's at least a decade away.

>>12246460
>Tangentially related but once again fuck congress for destroying iconic heritage pieces of the American space program.
Are you referring to the SLS using Shuttle engines even though the production line for new engines is available? Seriously, if it weren't for the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11, then I would've suspected that Congress was intentionally destroying American space history so the public would have no reference of what a good program is and thus wouldn't call out pork barrel projects.

>>12246236
they don't even need that. hypersonic missiles are making military ships obsolete AND can target ground objects 500km away from launch site.
the chinese, russians and indians have the technology. US and other western powers still can't compete.
that + drones = old military technology has become obsolete.

>>12246460
does the Mikasa counts?

>>12246431
>ESA
tfw even more irrelevant UKSA

>>12245570
>HE'S DESTROYING THE SKY!!

>>12246440
kino

>>12246460
eh, battleship museums are just indulgent
better use the steel for something practical, a better battleship maybe
same with heritage pieces, just recycle them instead of just letting them be wastes of space
we got records of them, thats enough

>>12246489
At least when we have no program, we can just buy Starships and set one up quickly. Silver linings

>>12246504
>bongs just straight up buy some Starships from SpaceX
>names one of them Warspite

>>12246504

>>12246476
>And honestly, i don't think that agencies like NASA ESA should be making rockets anyway,
I agree but here we run into an even bigger problem for ESA. NASA has a strong American newspace (and hybrid oldspace/newspace for what it's worth) economy which can provide that launch structure should it refocuses its budget on the right things. ESA relies heavily on Ariane which is weak even alongside the likes of Boing/ULA and they barely have a european newspace economy to speak of. One way or another with the launch infrastructure being allowed to go fallow I don't see how they avoid a situation where a decent portion of ESA's budget is dedicated to non-member launch providers.

>>12245649
Womanned bases anon.

>>12246512
>2023, crew of the SS Warspite make the first UKSA moon landing and proudly plant the flag in lunar regolith
>SLS maiden flight still delayed

>>12246481
Yes.
>>12246488
No. She didn't even see action in WWII and was a pre-dreadnought "battleship" (though she is the only one still around, so bonus points for that).

>>12246516
maybe burger jingoism will annoy the right people in the eu enough to make them get into gear, if nothing else but to spite the arrogant burgers

>>12246530
>euros talking about arrogance
Laughs in the last 500 years of human history

>>12246487
The US has hypersonic missiles.

>>12246460
>>12246500
Ehhh I agree to some extent but battleship texas is really cool. Lots of history (pretty sure it’s a map in COD WWII) and I always assumed it was commissioned in the 40s or something but NOPE, she has been around since WWI

>>12246530
>to spite the arrogant burgers
That's the only reason europoors do anything of note anymore. It's clearly not been enough to force them to be innovative.

>>12246536
you mean prototypes that barely work, as opposed to missiles that are proven to work, mass produced and already deployed?

>>12246342
You can in Low Earth orbit. Trash below 500 kilometers is not an issue due to decay, above that the volume of space is so great it's extremely unlikely you'll collide. Trash is really only a problem in specific orbits like GEO.

>>12246547
I'd rather go with a US prototype than a chinese production missile. There'd be about a 50% chance of the chinese missile missing it's target by 800 km and hitting my favorite noodle shop.

>>12246459
>ESA is great and all, but I thought that the EU has disallowed SpaceX from providing launches for ESA so Ariane can stay afloat?
You mean like the US forbids Ariane and other foreign launchers from bidding from government contracts, so that ULA could stay afloat? No, the EU has not done that. Firstly ESA isn't part of the EU. Secondly there is no protectionist law like there is in the US. There was a push to get European payloads on Ariane 6 so that it could build up a flight history, but it is not law.

>>12246537
That wasn't even bait and you still bit it.
Absolutely shameful.
>>12246547
>muh hypersonic missiles
Oh fuck not this shit, not here.

>>12246564
>the US forbids Ariane and other foreign launchers from bidding from government contracts
Strange, how have american astronauts been getting to the ISS all this time?

>>12246461
>because it would cost too many jobs.
He didn't say that. He said it didn't make sense with A5's current launch rate.

>>12246574
they buy tickets from the russians

>>12246579

And Russians arent "other foreign launchers"?

>>12246586
the russians didn't bid for any government contracts

>>12246564
>https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-space-usa-spacex/european-officials-reject-spacex-complaints-over-launch-subsidies-idUSKCN1QF2AF
Wrong. EU directly subsidies Ariane rockets. Heck, it was once government owned/run. Now its run by government defense contractors similar to ULA. They are not only given extra subsidies like the ULA but on state (EU) level, but are government mandated. Ariane is like ULA but without SpaceX competition and much more subsidies involved.

>>12246586
Russians are based unlike ESA faggots.

>>12246547
The us is planning on fielding the Mach 20 AGM-183 ARRW in the very near future on the b-1 & b-52. And when the US fields shit, they do it on a bigger scale than anyone.

>>12246472
>They even canceled their ISS resupply vehicle.
There were only ever 5 ordered to fulfil their obligations as an ISS partner. It wasn't cancelled, it was a limited run. Now that ATV's design has been used for the Orion SM it has essentially continued it's purpose of buying ESA into manned spaceflight programs.

>>12246463
if they didn't, the injuns would riot even harder
even their drunken inbred asses know how good starlink is

>>12246578
He literally did though, he complained that they would be too efficient and not make enough jobs because they'd 'only make one rocket a year'. Which is an obvious oversimplification of what a reusable rocket entails but it was his argument. Ariane is rotting.

>>12246568
How can you bite that which is not bait, confuscious say
><> J------------

>>12246558
Geo is pretty far out there, though.

>>12246578

Yes he did:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/ariane-chief-seems-frustrated-with-spacex-for-driving-down-launch-costs/

>>And then Charmeau said something telling about why reusability doesn't make sense to a government-backed rocket company—jobs.

>"Let us say we had ten guaranteed launches per year in Europe and we had a rocket which we can use ten times—we would build exactly one rocket per year," he said. "That makes no sense. I cannot tell my teams: 'Goodbye, see you next year!'"

>Whereas earlier in the interview Charmeau accuses the US government of subsidizing SpaceX, a few minutes later he says the Ariane Group can't make a reusable rocket because it would be too efficient.

>>12245561
Dumb question: is it possible to brick a satellite using microwaves from earth?
Asking for a friend.

>>12246516
>ESA relies heavily on Ariane which is weak even alongside the likes of Boing/ULA
I'm sorry, what? Ariane 5 was a commercial success. Delta and Atlas V were a flop, with the former withdrawing from the commercial market entirely. ArianeSpace doesn't have the luxury of falling back on marked-up military contracts.

>>12246617
But is highly constrained unlike the range of low earth orbits. You could conceivably render it unusable if you wanted to.

>>12246602
>>AGM-183 ARRW
>rapid response
>launched from a bomber aircraft
OHNONONO

>>12246624
No

>>12246574
Was that really an open bid though? I think not.

>>12246629
Why?

>>12246626
>we can't justify a reusable rocket, we don't even have a launch manifest in the first place
>i-it's a success though
Alright anon. Let's see how that goes for them down the line.

>>12246343
Cheaper than iPhone and it's a one-time purchase.

funny how americans will respond to anything one says against their delusions by dismissing it as a concern. their """arguments""" are similar to what any 10 year old would say when trying to have a serious discussion with them.

>>12246476
>i don't think that agencies like NASA ESA should be making rockets anyway
this
people often forget that ESA is mainly doing amazing science stuff and since europe has basically no human spaceflight on its own there is simply no need to have anything more than ariane 5/6
as an european i really hope that will change though and i think ESA would be quite happy to launch stuff with starship, same as they launch astronauts with Soyuz or how they are planning to send astronauts with orion.

>>12246662
>passive aggressiveness
Are you a woman?

>>12246626
Atlas V wasn't a flop. It just ran into a buzzsaw with the Falcon 9.

>>12246598
>Wrong.
Nope, subsidies don't change my point. There is no law forbidding ESA from launching on foreign vehicles. Note they launched GOCE, Cluster, Venus and Mars Express on foreign vehicles.

>are government mandated
Nowhere is this stated in your link.

ArianeSpace gets subsides to guarantee independent access to space. Americans may not remember but in a time before Ariane the US government tried to limit European commercial satellites that had to launch in the US. The result was that ESA would guarantee independent access, so Europeans would not get fucked over again. Yes it comes with direct subsides. In the US companies like ULA get indirect subsides and numerous inflated military contracts that AS are forbidden from bidding on.

>>12246662
Quit your bitching and post more about spaceflight.

>>12246669
US tried to limit Ariane from competing with commercial sector because Ariane is a government entity trying to compete with private commercial sectors. Its like Huawei asking the US to allow it to compete with Apple when the company is controlled by a PRC member/minister and funded by PRC military.

Stop trying to make up weird justification, its stupid.

Why is this /sfg/ full of smug US anons shitting on ESA when NASA is a even bigger corrupt shitshow but they got lucky that a south african decided to build his rocket company in the US?
The arrogance of it all.

>>12246613
No he didn't fucking say that. His point here:
>not make enough jobs because they'd 'only make one rocket a year'
Was not that it wouldn't make enough jobs, it's that you can't just fire 80% of your staff because you only need them for 2 months of the year. He is correct in that there are fixed and recurring costs. If you're still producing the same rocket then you still need most of the staff.

>>12246623
Note that the only bit that refers to jobs is not a quote. You have missed his point.

>>12246669
>There is no law forbidding ESA from launching on foreign vehicles
Russia rockets. Because French/ESA wants closer relations with Russia and more distance with US.

However EU has made it very clear they will not allow SpaceX to compete in ESA launches, unless required with NASA agreements.

>>12246686
and tell me, WHY so you think he picked the US?

WATTENBERG: You have been quoted as saying -- Elon you came here from South Africa at age 17, is that right.
MUSK: Yes, I did.
WATTENBERG: You were an immigrant -- a legal immigrant --
MUSK: No, no -- yes, a legal one. [Laughter]
WATTENBERG: I got to think a lot of illegals add a lot of value to the United States. You have been quoted as saying that you are nauseatingly pro American.
MUSK: Yes, that’s true.
WATTENBERG: What do you mean?
MUSK: Well, I mean, I think the United States is the greatest country that’s ever existed on earth. And I think that it will be difficult to argue on objective grounds that it is not. I think the facts really point in that direction. It’s the greatest force for good of any country that’s ever been.
There would not be democracy in the world if not for the United States. We’re obviously falling in the recent few occasions -- maybe three separate occasions in the Twentieth Century -- democracy would have fallen with World War 1, World War 2 and the Cold War, but for the United States.
WATTENBERG: And perhaps the threat of terrorism would be much greater if it were not for the United States.
MUSK: Yeah, absolutely. I think it would be a mistake to say the United States is perfect, it certainly is not. There have been many foolish things the United States has done and bad things the United States has done.
But when historians look at these things on balance and measure the good with the bad -- and I think if you do that and -- on a rational basis and make a fair assessment -- I think it’s hard to [unintelligible] that the United States -- is there anything better [speaking over each other]

>>12246513
"fugg earf"
t. belon musg :DD

>>12246686
NASA is leading the charge. ESA is leaderless and aimless.

NASA for all its trouble/inefficiencies is still miles above ESA or any other organization when it comes to innovation/leadership/direction/focus/etc.

>>12246654
A5 has had a full book for years.

>>12246668
It was a commercial flop. It only ever launched about a dozen commercial payloads. It filled the government niche very nicely.

>>12246440

This is the closest the UK has gotten to having a respectable space program

>>12246681
meanwhile, in the US, you have a LOT of military/intelligence people and money involved in tech projects. example:
https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/shelton

>>12246701

>>12246686
I talk shit about NASA all the time. Doesn't mean I'm not going to talk even more shit about ESA when it's even more deserved. Try not sticking up for it if it offends you so much that it sucks.

>>12246681
The US forbids any and all foreign launchers from competing on launch contracts. See the "Buy America" acts. It has nothing to do with them being a government/private partnership. It's pure protectionism.

>>12246690
> EU has made it very clear they will not allow SpaceX to compete in ESA launches
[citation needed]

>>12246624
Anyone who isn't a Musk fanboy?
Can I take down these fucking satellites with microwaves or not?
If it's possible to build orbital solar farms, then it should be also possible to fry satellites from earth.

>>12246714
>US forbids any and all foreign launchers from competing on launch contracts
RocketLabs. Its a newzealand rocket company launch American government payloads.

>>12246687
Alright yes, his argument was that he would have to release those workers instead of the total amount of workers that would be involved, but in any case it's ultimately an incredibly short sighted complaint that the project would be too efficient. It's a complete conciliation that they can't actually make a competitive rocket, because if they could they would have no problem keeping a large manifest and a large stable of active workers. F9 has no problem doing this.

>>12246694
>>12246698
>Nasa is leading the charge
If it wasnt for musk starting up spaceX and pushing trough, nasa would still be riding the soyuz because a bunch of astronauts got killed on starliner.
Reminder that if falcon1 had failed SLS would still be the only option of the US.

>>12246712
Early carriers were fucking crazy.

>>12246427
Herschel was awesome.

>>12246729
SpaceX was a NASA gamble on public-private partnership. And it worked out perfectly and MORE. Without NASA SpaceX would not exist today.

>>12246731
So were pistons.

>>12246725
> Its a newzealand rocket company
Funny they seem to think otherwise.
https://www.rocketlabUSA.com/
Rocket Lab are desperate to show they are an American company because they won't be allowed to bid on government contracts.

>>12246747
>>12246725

Forgot pic.

>>12246701
Jesus Christ the absolute lad.
>"there are a lot of people who say that bombing can never win a war. Well my answer to that is that it has never been tried yet and we shall see."
>>12246712
Look at how much has changed too, we struggled to land slow moving aircraft on the deck of a ship 80 years ago and now a company is landing rockets on ships like clockwork. Sure, progress has been slower than was perhaps assumed, but just imagine where we'll be, 80 years in the future.

>>12246729
And? It's not like we'd suddenly all be jacking off to how amazing ESA is in that situation. We'd be excited about BO because we wouldn't know any better and India and China would be the guys to look out for.

>>12246740
Delusional.
Obama administration wanted to give boeing a shitload of money with the Commercial Crew Program, nobody at nasa or the US gov actually thought spaceX would succeed.

>>12246757
i'm not really defending ESA, just saying NASA&the US space program is just as shit if it wasnt for spaceX.

>>12246675

>>12246747
They are a New Zealand company. With good chunk of workforce in US.

>>12246757
And BO would probably not be a thing of spaceX never succeeded.
Bezos only jumped on the market after realising there was money it.

Why does SpaceX make eurofags seethe so god damned hard? I still don't get the absolute hatred for SpaceX. Are you all Angry Astronaut patreons or something?

>>12246763
Thats why I said it was a gamble dumbass. Musk was at the end of money for both Tesla/SpaceX during the 2008-2009 period when both companies were failing. With Musk's net worth being negative money as he had to borrow from his friends like Larry Page(Google). NASA's couple billion dollar contract for commercial cargo saved it.

>>12246769
It was founded in NZ, but it's registered in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab

>Rocket Lab is a private American aerospace manufacturer and small satellite launch service provider with a wholly owned New Zealand subsidiary.

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/1835428/shareholdings

>>12246774
Europefags has a hate on Musk cause he's 1) American, Europoors always seethe at Americans 2) Successful 3) Capitalist 4) shits on socialism 5) shits on traditions of the old 6) Europe is traditional as it gets

>>12246782
New Zealander owns the company, launches from New Zealand, and has lot of main workforce from New Zealand.

>>12246776
>it was a gamble dumbass.
what gamble?
Everybody thought they would fail, hell fucking boeing's entire plan around starliner was based on the fact that spaceX would fail.
Hell, spaceX's succes has probably saved a the lives astronauts who would have probably died in starliner.
Have you been sleeping under a rock in the last few weeks?

>>12246774
>>12246783
i'm actually praising spaceX, don't change the narrative...

>>12246790
>what gamble?
Are you retarded? Did your mother drop you as a baby?

>>12246787
Irrelevant to the point. As far as the US government is concerned it is a US company, and so they are not excluded from contracts.

>>12246792
Can't refute me so you just attack me instead.
Nice...

>>12246794
As far as US gov is concerned they are not a US company. Legally. If Huawei setup a shop in California, they don't become a US company. US registered is not same as US company.

The reason New Zealand company gets to launch and compete is because they're allies with the US.

>>12246771
BO is older than SpaceX. Bezos makes it slow because he's mismanaged it badly, but he does actually have intrinsic motivation.
>>12246763
>i'm not really defending ESA, just saying NASA&the US space program is just as shit
Without SpaceX, we'd have still New Glenn and Vulcan on the way and F9/FH wouldn't have eaten into the manifest of the rest of our heavy rockets.
Is it still shit, yes, because SpaceX actually does it right and embarrasses the entirety of the space establishment. The fact that you have to try and erase that to even come up with an argument shows up thoroughly that's been done. But it's not ESA level, US space has been rebounding while ESA has stalled.

>>12246790
>i'm actually praising spaceX, don't change the narrative...
Then I obviously wasn't talking about you. But it's clear that their has been a very strong, very eurocentric anti musk narrative forming for the last few years.

>>12246744
got the one with audio?

>>12246805
Anti-Musk is everywhere where there is special interests. Fox News/Conservates hated Musk in 2010s during the Obama years. During the Trump years, CNBC/CNN/Liberals ran multiple daily negative coverage of Tesla/Musk/SpaceX for few years. It only slowed down a year ago or so and is now picked up by free lance journos who chase clicks.

>>12246818
>It only slowed down a year ago or so and is now picked up by free lance journos who chase clicks.
Specially with Musk going against the Left's covid narrative

>>12246805
>>12246818

i'm a central western euro, media reports positively on spaceX.
Even starlink.
But i will admit they are picturing musk as a excentering bilionare who doent give a fuck about anybody.
And i think most people here only now Musk for tesla, not for spaceX.

Did they get a new manufacturer for the SLS O-rings?

>>12246799
So if it's not a US company why is their website called rocketlabsUSA.com. Maybe they made a mistake when registering the domain, you should send them an email to let them know.

>If Huawei setup a shop in California, they don't become a US company.
They do if that shop explicitly owns the entire company.

>US registered is not same as US company.
Yes it literally is.

>The reason New Zealand company gets to launch and compete is because they're allies with the US.
[citation needed] Why don't you find the clause in the "buy america" act that makes exceptions for friends.

>>12246815
I do. >>>/wsg/3654660
You can also check out >>>/wsg/3654661 or >>>/wsg/3651694

>>12246839
>Why don't you find the clause in the "buy america" act that makes exceptions for friends.
Yeah I found it, it's called the "Who gives a fuck what some garbage eurofags think? U.S.A! U.S.A!" clause.

>>12246698
>NASA is getting 4 times more money than ESA
there i corrected it for you

>>12246839
The guy you're arguing with is retarded but if you're seriously arguing that rocketlab is American to get big bad protectionismbux and not because the US is the most suitable environment to grow a newspace launch company, you're retarded. How many government payloads come in the form of smallsats? Gonna guess about 0.

>>12246840
noice

>>12246839
Jesus Christ. Its like I'm talking to a child. You have Huawei website for the US audience, ASUS website for US website, Chinese Petroleum company website for US audience. They all have local office in the US. They don't make it a US company.

>>12246848
No offense to Eurobros but Europe is gay. Yeah it's pretty but there's a reason Musk didn't set up shop in Europe or Canada; they don't foster spaceflight whether it comes to the government or private companies

>>12246839
>[citation needed] Why don't you find the clause in the "buy america" act that makes exceptions for friends.
https://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/buy_american/
Dumb fucking ass retarded niggers

>>12246847
>>12246799
>>12246787
https://www.spaceflightinsider.com/missions/commercial/rocket-lab-electron-rutherford-peter-beck-started-first-place/#jfwAsoMtka5bCubs.99

From Peter Beck himself:
>“And the launch vehicle is a U.S. launch vehicle, so there’s a lot of legal reasons why we need to be a U.S. company as well.”

>>12246850
> How many government payloads come in the form of smallsats? Gonna guess about 0.
You'd be fucking wrong then. Rocket Labs has done 5 US government launches already, with another one on the books. And no I never claimed this was the only reason. Read.

when?

>>12246879
After Skylon Spaceplane, aka year 2070

Hey Jeff, How's the rocket coming along?

>>12246859
From Peter Beck himself calling it a US company:
>“And the launch vehicle is a U.S. launch vehicle, so there’s a lot of legal reasons why we need to be a U.S. company as well.”

Go fuck yourself.

>>12246866
Do you think there's only one piece of legislation called "buy america"? Are you that stupid?

>>12246882
>From Peter Beck himself calling it a US company:
Don't matter. He's not American. His company is not American. His main staffs aren't American. That don't mean he wont' get launches. The only reason US refused to launch EU satellites was because it was government owned and wanted to compete with the US commercial satellite operators. That would put the US comsats at a huge disadvantage.

>>12246859
That is their only website. rocketlabs.co.nz redirects to rocketlabsusa.com.

>>12246879
Never.
Airbus&Ariana dont take reusability seriously yet.

>>12246881
Great! Everyone is preparing test flight 14 of 100 for the New Shepard to human rate it.

>>12246888
So you're saying he's just an Ameriboo?

>>12246888
US commercial comsats*

Its not like Europe has changed the way of doing business either. France's best selling EV is a government owned/run company.

>>12246893
Most foreigners who do anything of value are.

>>12246888
>The only reason US refused to launch EU satellites was because it was government owned and wanted to compete with the US commercial satellite operators.
Wrong.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-space-usa-spacex/european-officials-reject-spacex-complaints-over-launch-subsidies-idUSKCN1QF2AF

>“Buy America” laws prevent Arianespace from competing for U.S. government launches, cutting off a huge market at a time when commercial launches are down sharply. European officials also see hidden aid in the fact that SpaceX gets twice as much for U.S. government launches than it seeks in European tenders.

>>12246896
Ouch!

>>12246894
Renault will likely not get any US subsidies if they tried bringing their car to the US because its a French gov car company.

>>12246860
yeah its a real shame spaceflight doesn't have nearly as many fans here than in the us
it's changing though but very slowly

>>12246902
>Renault will likely not get any US subsidies if they tried bringing their car to the US
Depends on where they build it. They'd absolutely get help for opening a factory in the US.

>>12246888
The Rutherford engines are PROONTed in the US and they have a pad at Wallops. They are in fact an American company for legal purposes.

>>12246368
Holy shit the cringe

>>12246877
>“And the launch vehicle is a U.S. launch vehicle, so there’s a lot of legal reasons why we need to be a U.S. company as well.”
Yes, it's called ITAR. Whine about protectionism all you want but I doubt there are any nations out there that let just anybody fly orbital rockets.

>And no I never claimed this was the only reason
>Rocket Lab are desperate to show they are an American company because they won't be allowed to bid on government contracts.
Seems to me that's exactly what you're saying.
I do concede that I didn't know they had so many government launches under their belt, though, so fair enough on that point, but that's still the smaller part of their launches and even less of their future launch manifest. America is just a better place to start a rocket company than anywhere else.

>>12246857
Np, anon.

>>12246899
The reasoning is pure bullshit.

1) SpaceX charges "twice" because US gov regulations require much stringent launch service. If they launch with spacex like a commercial payload as some of NASA's payload with SpaceX will be/has been done, then they would only pay the sticker price of $50M. Lets say you don't buy this explanation. That still doesn't explain the fact that SpaceX 3-5x cheaper than ULA/Boeing/Lockheed launches. You can ignore this and there would still be a big flaw with the European argument. Arianespace is 100% government subsidized. It was owned by the government a decade ago or so, now is owned by multiple defense industry contractors which are ALL subsidized.

Lets say you're 100% Europetard and you don't buy any of the arguments above. Ariancespace still can't compete with SpaceX, even if "Buy America" law wasn't there. Anything Arianespace can do, SpaceX can do 25-50% cheaper.

Just finished For All Mankind. Needs more space stuff and less lesbians. Also how could they do that to Gene Kranz?

do y'all want to play tf2 or something

>>12246923
I haven't wanted to play TF2 since the Orange Box.

>>12246921
what they did to wernher von braun and deke slayton was far worse

>>12246919
Atleast it looks easier to hover than the Harrier

>>12246920
Not that guy, but your asuming arianaspace isnt propping up it's prices too.

>>12246921
>>12246937
Is it worth watching? I've scene the Apollo 11 landing scene, and it was pretty great aside from the fact that they got a twink to play Gene Kranz.

>>12246921
>Needs more space stuff and less lesbians
Agreed. I get it, you're gay and that sucks in the 60s can we please get back to the fucking moon now? At least Danielle wasn't obnoxious, I liked her.

>>12246945
Everyone is propping up their prices. SpaceX props up their prices. SpaceX just happens to have a really cheap vehicle that can pay for itself.

Literally, this year, there's only been I think 2 new Falcon 9s. All the Starlink launches are on old reused rockets.

>>12246920
>Ariancespace still can't compete with SpaceX, even if "Buy America" law wasn't there.
And what about a decade ago when it was just a ULA monopoly? A company who also got direct subsidies in the form of "launch readiness" payments. Their logic isn't bullshit. The US government has shown it will absolutely subside companies in the interests of national security and maintaining independent access.

>>12245647
>This archtype of NPC has been solidifying over the past few years, I think the programming has been completed and now they walk among us.
I used to be one. In the midst of this godless chaos it's deeply comforting to be able to believe that you are on the right side of history etc and it grants you the pleasure of looking down on the unenlightened or hateful. For most people life experience firmly rams home the message that the official narrative should be discarded. The ones you really have to worry about are the 40, 50, 60 something lefties. They really are complete zealots, so far gone that no amount of cognitive dissonance can shake them from their dogma.

>>12246957
Decade ago, Arianespace/Roscosmos controlled the commercial launch industry. Now SpaceX is eating up 70% of the commercial launches. This practically killed Soyuz and Arianespace's commercial dominance.

>>12246948
definetely
the show got a lot of hate since people thought it was about muh feminism and stuff, but if you watch it, it becomes clear that those things are criticized in the show too. i don't want to spoil you too much (or at least not more than i already did sry bro) but even the things happening to Wernher von Braun are perceived as big dick moves within the show itself
other than that, great space stuff and even fairly scientificly accurate.

>>12246915
>Yes, it's called ITAR.
It's not just ITAR.
https://aerospace.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/Braun-Sims_ForeignLaunch_08062018.pdf

>Seems to me that's exactly what you're saying.
Then you can't read. Nowhere in the later statement is the word "only".

>>12246948
It's alright, although the constant catastrophic mission failures do get a bit tiresome after a while. The political stuff isn't THAT bad to be honest, and the show does make a point of showing both sides of the coin, noting how certain people were being put forward purely for political reasons, although it's still definitely on the progressive side of things.
It's an okay alternate history space drama with some really cringe moments, I'd give it a solid 6.5, maybe a 7.

>>12246957
SpaceX has challenged ULA, sued Airforce, and is now winning half the launch contracts. ULA is forced to compete again. That doesn't mean oldspace isn't free from inefficiencies and corruption, its not. SLS is still another bag. Starship will fight tooth/nail once it launches. There is no such checks/balance mechanism in Europe. Think about it for a moment. If US is bad with ULA losing their relevance due to hard competition, then what about Arianespace which has 0 competition?

>>12246943
It is, and it solves the major issue which made Harriers and other similar VTOL/STOVL aircraft substantially more dangerous than normal. The individual unit price isn't actually very bad at all for a 5 1/2 gen stealth fighter, and the program cost for fifty years of continuous production, maintenance, RnD and modular improvements over time is actually quite good, but retards just look at the number and become histrionic as if the US were going to have to pay it every year or something, instead of it being the overall cost of everything to do with the plane until 2070+

>>12246964
Shouldn't companies notice that getting to space has become easier and therefore increase production of satellites?
No more waiting a couple years for it to launch.

>>12245570
this gets harmed:
-a small portion of the real scientific ground based astronomy lightly disturbed
-retarded romantic stargazing with 0 scientific value

in exchange for:
-mars colony
-sci fi tier accesibility to space
-A gigantic boost to space based astronomy which is orders of magnitude better
-retarded romantic satellitegazing with 0 scientific value ensues

where do i fucking sign?

Uhhh so sorry to go off topic about ESA but are the Japanese going with us as part of the Artmis program? I know they are helping with gateway but will we bring along some astronauts? I've seen concept renders of Toyota rovers and stuff. I would love to bring some japanese bros.

>>12246980
>but retards just look at the number and become histrionic as if the US were going to have to pay it every year or something, instead of it being the overall cost of everything to do with the plane until 2070+
There are people so dumb they think you need to earn a million a year to be a millionaire.

>>12246988
>Uhhh so sorry to go off topic about ESA but are the Japanese going with us as part of the Artmis program?
I think so, yeah. Gateway will replace ISS, and that means JAXA will have nowhere else to go.

>>12246986
>Shouldn't companies notice that getting to space has become easier and therefore increase production of satellites?
Satellite industry said it was impossible to build 100s of satellites a month. SpaceX builds at such. Old sat industry builds satellites at the rate of 1 per year or so.

>>12246662
americans are sheep. 94% of adult americans are made dumber and more useless than the average human child so that they consume and give power to the empire as a whole. 5% is tough and shit (military researchers etc) and then 1% is the one who lives off the effort of them all. But its hilarious how the 94% think they live better than the rest of the world because they are the bitch slave pets of a small elite thats doing well in stealing from other countries.

>>12246986
If they thought this through and planned ahead, then they could have made a cheap constellation of satellites a decade ago when SpaceX debut their Falcon9. They sat on their asses for 10 years not doing anything. So as the satellite launch market dried up because of lack of innovation, SpaceX decided to innovate and do Starlink launches.

>>12247001
So why are Europe still upset about the US pulling military support? Why do you want a bunch of US military thieves hanging around your superior big brained countries?

>>12246995
ISS will be replaced by a commercial equivalent in LEO. NASA is pushing that before ISS gets decomissioned. Gateway is a command module for the Moon.

What programs would be put into place if the soviets made it to the moon first?

>>12246964
So? The US military just gave the majority of launches to ULA. Clearly cost isn't everything.

>>12247016
Central/Eastern Europe wants US military support badly, not just as deterrent against the Russians, but American economic support of the local areas.

Western Europe don't want US military in their country because they think US = BAD, China/Russia=Good.

>>12247020

>>12246987
Only a retard puts a telescope at the bottom of a well.

>>12246974
>If US is bad with ULA losing their relevance due to hard competition, then what about Arianespace which has 0 competition?
I do not understand what you are even asking.

>>12247038
It means Ariancespace is a dinosaur like ULA but had been living on government ownership and then subsidies their entire existence for ~60 years.

It's like this, when it comes to reusable rockets to LEO nothing beats the soyuz, the thing is when it come to rockets, nothing beats reusable rockets, and realistically the only ones that exists are spacex's, everything else so far hasnt proven to be more than a pipedream.

Im of the firm opinion that everyone is just waiting for the starship program to be a bit more advanced to start blatantly coping it adjusting for regional variations, like the soviets did with buran.

If you can start an R&D project with the conviction that what you want to do is possible then that's already a huge fuckton advantage.

For example if you knew fusion power was possible with the technology they were testing then Iter would go much smoother, doubling or even tripling the budget would be justified, theres just a natural inertia when you know theres something at the end of the road, as it stands the whole of iter might end up being useless, im talking 100% objectively no matter how much money they pour into it end up being the exact same as if you just had set the money on fire, thats very demoralizing

>>12247028
I don't think they like China/Russia, they're just pissed because mean orange man doesn't want to let them keep scamming the US by putting off their NATO payments like the fucking grifting leeches that they are.
They loved the US when US presidents were globalist cocksuckers who happily paid the US's productivity into European """allies""" who gave the US exactly nothing in return.

>>12247020
boots on mars with an even more retardedly brute force aproach to ensure they made it first than the soviets.
Something retarded like assembling a craft in orbit using nova rockets

>>12247028
nobody likes russia europe or america, they are and always have been competing empire, small countries just do to survive.
Europe is an imperialistic invader to some and an imperial subject to others but they are bound to russia in many concrete ways for example gas pipelines so they cant piss the moff

>>12246972
First of all your pdf is later than his statement and is rather tangential to it: he's giving his reasons to register as a US company, this is about questioning whether to give his company gov't contracts DESPITE its US status. In any case, there are a lot of smallsat launches and Electron is one of the biggest private launchers, so protectionism or not they could survive. They cannot violate ITAR, period.
>Then you can't read. Nowhere in the later statement is the word "only".
"X is because Y" doesn't really need the specification

>>12247042
Is it too late for the russians to dust off Energia? If they could get something like Energia 2 off the ground it'd be a big deal.Maybe instead of those weird swing wing boosters they could have vertical landing boosters.

>>12247042
>when it comes to .. rockets to LEO nothing beats the soyuz,
I get what you're saying, but right now, Falcon 9 is the best LEO rocket. A year or two ago, that may have belonged to Soyuz. Falcon9's launch record has been building up rapidly. A year or two changes everything.

What would a bar on Mars be like?

>>12247036
One of these (39 meter European ELT) is half the cost of a 2.5 meter space telescope.

>>12246805
Calm down

>>12247068
Took me too long to realize you weren't talking about the chocolate.
And no I'm not american.