/sci/ - Science & Math

I love SLS!

This will be me on Mars

>>12241043
Is Elon's talk up on youtube? Anyone have a link to a good version of it? In trial all day and couldn't watch it live.

>>12241043

Threadly reminder that rocketry is quite literally archaic technology, from Oriental mysticism, and these primates will perish on this rock in the looming cosmic calamity that befalls Earth with a disturbing regularity unless there are physics-based propulsion systems developed FAST.

>>12241100
nice dubs
https://youtu.be/y5Aw6WG4Dww

>>12241100
Literally nothing

>>12241111
Nice quads
Also thanks

>>12241112
I heard he was trashing oldspace a lot and that's all I need

>>12241109
Is the rocket equation not physics? Good luck making a drive not governed by it

>>12241127
Oh yeah he fucking torched them bro, read last thread too, it was great

why is SN8 venting right now

>>12241160

Everyone knows 'em. They're the ones you "have" because it's the regular thing in every store but you never really have one, it just leaves you feeling empty and queasy inside.

"Why would anyone want a Hot Rocket?!"

(Why is that fat man whispering to himself, it make no sense!)

>>12241160
>launch is indefinite on the range
I N D E F I N I T E

>>12241160
come on guys, what ever happened to team space? come on guys

>>12241212
>Team Space
Go away Tim Dodd shoo shoo

>>12241185
Do you autists sit there and literally stare at this all night?

>>12241297
Starship watch was how /sfg/ started.

>>12241297
>Do you autists sit there and literally stare at this all night?

>>12241297
TEXAS TANK WATCHERS
>NERDLE NERDLE NERDLE
TEXAS TANK WATCHERS
>THANK YOU FOR THE $2000 SUPERCHAT
MEMBERS ONLY CHAT
>THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
And we thank the Almighty God for the mute button

>No cargo flights in 2022
>Fighting chance to make 2024 window
SpaceX is finished, Elon will die before they make it to Mars

>>12241414
Elon will die before SN8 hop.

t. inside info

earth observation starlink with continuous HD video coverage of the entire planet when?

>>12241416
What do you know, terran

>>12241427
Sell your Tesla stock tonight.

>>12241434
Sold it all, bought as much Boeing as I could

>>12241462
[math]2\sqrt{ab} [/math] IQ there, anon

>>12241297
no i only check on it like once per day and i decided to check the stream and i randomly saw it vooooonting

The LA Jetpack man is Elon. He is developing a martian mobility pack.

>>12241482
that was just a drone + dummy

>>12241414
he'll probably retire on mars in the mid 2040s

>>12241495

>>12241500
he's going to wait until his kids get married and have grandchildren before making the trip

>>12241420
why do you want continuous coverage of clouds? governments aren't going to allow live street views because of security concerns.

>>12241503
That's not up to them

>>12241500
Honestly I could see him leading SpaceX into his 80s, potentially even his 90s depending on how medicine advances.

>>12241523
Why do you think he’s developing neuralink? His AI is gonna be running the company long after he’s dead, like Gaston Glock in the fallout universe.

>>12241534
oh my god we could have infinite musks

>>12241534
Fuck yes

hot take incoming

>>12241559
OH SHIT Zubrin with the clapback

>>12241562
man, I wish I could kill billions of people
let me know when it's time to start throwing rocks

>>12241562
LMAO zubrin btfo'd that bitch

>>12241559
Martian suicides can't top record tranny rates loool

>>12241562
based, no lie detected

>>12241562
Zubrin is dishing out redpills

>>12241562
Zubrin is one of a kind based

>>12241583
Why do people like zubrin not just shave their head? Is it denial or something? He would look badass if he shaved and grew out his beard
>>12241568
I’m not brave enough to ever say this to someone but it’s exactly what I was thinking lmao

>>12241588
If I were to guess, he probably is loooong past giving a fuck. He looks much better with that flat cap though

https://youtu.be/kNkK15YBOjU?t=230
damn i need to go to a dark area and look at the orion nebula in person some time. the sky is too bright where i am to see it in color, even through a 10 inch aperture telescope

>>12241185
well they scrubbed the static fire last night so they're probably troubleshooting shit right now

>>12241297
Yes.

>>12241297
Yes, nigger faggot.

>>12241559
>>12241562
based zubrin dumping on the blue checks

but he's exactly right. Mass extinction events are routine. This universe is a dangerous place. Either we develop the means to protect ourselves and the maturity to not use said means against ourselves, or we resign to inevitable extinction.

Starship and Super Heavy statuses as of today

>>12241559
>ask anyone if they enjoy living inside all the time
Is the blue check not aware that millions of people live their lives like this normally? Not everyone is a socially addicted normie.

>>12241562
honestly even if It'll just be bunkers It would still be awesome because of the lower gravity.
Just imagine taking up acrobatics and leaping 7 meters into the air pulling 12 flips and landing it

question, do we have lamps that can produce natural sunlight and the human body can use to create vitamine D?
Having your mars settlers swallow vitamin D pills all the time seems like a step back.

>>12241821
>lamps that produce natural sunlight
oxymoronic statement
and yes you can get vit D from a lamp, it just requires the right UV range.

>>12241559
>woman cant understand the pioneering spirit of man, and how radicalized (in a good way) it can make people.
>quarantine was soooooo tough amirite guys, I only got laid once ;(
I think I just realized that Mars will be all men. All the men will adapt and be happy enough to live on mars, and the women will just kill themself.

>>12241896
sounds great desu

>>12241562
Based Zubrin, around asteroids never relax.

>>12241896
Sterile homo. That’d never work.

I keep hearing about this supposed “quarantine” but I never saw evidence it exists. I leave the house just as much now as I did before.

>>12241896
>judging from anecdote, or even from the average
Most men are unfit for task as well. It doesn't matter. A self sustaining colony of even a million people only needs one person out of thousands to fit the right mental profile.
The number of appropriate men will be many times larger, sure, but given a goal of self-sustainability you would pick at least 50% women.

>>12241896
This is just the biological reality of a species of social creatures with a fighting/exploring/risk taking male and a nurturing communal female. Early Mars colonies will likely be almost entirely composed of men and just a few exceptional out-of-the-average range women, normie tier women will only ever take any interest in habitats beyond Earth when they are as good as or better than what can already be had on Earth. This Anon >>12241921 though is probably right, you would want to ensure a pretty even split in the initial wave of colonists, and you'd probably also want to make sure that they are for the most part compatible with each-other, both at the casual level and the intimate level.

>>12241917
artificial wombs. Mars will be the birthplace of commonly used eugenics.

>>12241927
way to make mars colonization cringe

>>12241562
>>12241559
Literally who?

what are advantages of spaceplanes over capsules for human space flight?

>>12241948
lower g's on reentry for a comfier ride back home. will be useful once we starting having hundreds of people in orbit at once

>>12241948
There are none.
Spaceplanes are only useful militarily.

>>12241559

>>12241954
Those hundreds of people will be coming and going in ships of SS' size or larger, capsules and spaceplanes are both extremely irrelevant in that environment except for possible emergency uses

>>12241927
Congrats on making Mars colonization sound gay and soulless.

>>12241965
I don't know, I wonder mind paying for a nice luxury trip home should we ever reach such a space age

What sort of metabolic pathways are there for potential autotrophs living beneath the ground on Mars?

>>12241986
A charter ride on a large highly furnished ship with a small crew (or none since you don't really need one) sounds more luxurious to me than any space plane

>>12242008
It's all about the comfort my friend and in terms of g's you can't much more comfortable than a spaceplane. A nice smooth ride home :)

>>12242017
Launch g's are governed by the exact same physics, and re-entry down to subsonic is roughtly the same as well. The landing burn isn't actually any higher in peak g's than you would experience in a spaceplane either. In a Starship you would have the weird swing thing to contend with, that's the biggest difference, but I could easily see other or larger ships without that or even the SS being updated over time to eliminate that.

>>12241297
I'm not from the US so sadly yes. I have to make due with blurry streams.

>>12241562
>implying that cunt even understands what she's saying
It's an NPC, anon. Chinese room.

>>12241559
We should chloroform this oxygen thief and sneak her onto the first colony ship going

Please god can we not just spend all our time chasing the dopamine hit of dunking on morons or waxing major on "biological reality". Its not that productive or even good for any of us.

Instead can we talk about the new orbital fuel storage and fuel transfer contracts that NASA pushed through? How did they manage to sneak that by Shelby in the first place? Did he relent or is he running out of power since it seems like he maybe no longer a useful vote for the Senate R's so they don't have to cater as much to him?

>>12242094
The latter for sure. Current administration would rather expand industry and expand space travel for the prestige, and has a large based of republican support. Shelby can't break ranks because he'd be all alone.

>>12242017
Yeah, if we ever want to gave a real market for tourists to go to space will need SSTO's like star raker.
You kind of have to because people here seem to forget that starship is going to be a wild ride and only fit people with good hearts will get to ride it.
Old people would stroke out.
Or we make a space elevator, but i think it's easier to make a SSTO then a space elevator.

>>12242130
>I think it will be easier to make SSTO than SE
Aka neither will be made.

>>12241966
Simp. If you value vagañas that much you should stay on earth.

>>12242130
Again, if you would be unfit for SS you'd be unfit for a spaceplane as well. You still have to survive launch and re-entry with the same forces. Actually, SS would be smoother for the entire entry profile as your spaceplane's wings have to be large enough to let you land at subsonic speeds meaning they are poorly optimized for the hyper and supersonic speeds of re-entry. And landing burns aren't high G at all compared to all of these factors. The turn is still the biggest problematic factor simply because of its awkwardness, but that's not inherent to ship design.
SSTO's are even worse because launch is a big high g regime. A big TSTO can afford to pull back on performance and smooth out the launch g's. That SSTO has to go balls out to even make orbit.

>>12242141
call me delusional, but i still think a skylon style engine will be made at one point.
Read a while ago that they had a big breaktrough with the aircooler part of the engine.

>>12242148
wasn't the starraker design supposed to be a pretty smooth flight?

>>12242148
>Actually, SS would be smoother for the entire entry profile as your spaceplane's wings have to be large enough to let you land at subsonic speeds meaning they are poorly optimized for the hyper and supersonic speeds of re-entry.
The peak re-entry forces on the Shuttle were 1.7 and it spent most of re-entry at 1g. Do we have any estimates on what SS will be like?

>>12242121
Plus, it seems like the R's are going to be swept out of the senate by a probable 1 or 2 vote margin, so him being a deciding vote on budgetary matters no longer matters for at least 2-6 years which by then Shelby might be dead. Though, if Doug Jones survives Tuberville this election somehow, he might become the new Shelby since he could then be a critical swing vote in a D run senate.

Plus, don't make the mistake of thinking that just because D senators from NY, MA,or VT bitch off about the space program that D senators from CA, CO, or WA will actually let them cut jobs from the big aerospace conglomerates from their states. In all honesty the best thing for Elon and SpaceX might be Hegar beating the R incumbent in TX so all of sudden Boca Chica becomes a D senatorial funding priority.

>>12242150
>wasn't the starraker design supposed to be a pretty smooth flight?
I don't know, it's not like it ever had so much as a prototype. I'm just talking about the inherent physical realities of SSTOs vs. TSTOs. The SSTO will never have the performance budget of a comparable TSTO.

>>12242161
i only recently found out about the starraker and i am wondering if this thing would even have been anywhere near to possible back then. from what i heard the venture star with all this modern almost sci fi tech would probably have struggled to be succesful.

>>12242167
Everything about the starraker except for the engines would have worked.
The starraker engines are pretty much what the skylon team wants to build, but on steroids.

>>12242157
It spends about the same time decelerating from entry to subsonic. Not sure how they compare after that, landing burn should be pretty smooth but the turn will be whacky. A bigger ship would have more performance budget to work with to make things nicer.

>>12242150
What’s the point of an air cooler?

>>12242185
it should be possible though to turn the starship into a spaceplane to land horizontally. sure you would need to give it wings and would therefore decrease its payload capacity but that shouldn't be a problem if the job is just to ferry people to and from LEO

>>12242186
Compressed air inside the engine becomes too hot when you go too fast, you need too cool it down first before you use it.
Up until now this was impossible, but the skylon team claims they have a working aircooler that doesnt turn in to a block of ice and blocks the entire system.
Ofcourse that shit is still decades away from having any use in the field.

>>12242186
at those speeds several times the speed of sound, the air gets hot as fuck and would melt your engine. since that is usually regardet as a bad thing, they are building in an air cooler (actually named precooler i think) which does as the name suggests

>>12242204
I mean if you really want to land horizontally there's no need to glide anywhere, you just need specialized engines capable of providing enough power for the 1.Xg hoverslam oriented along the side instead of the bottom, kind of like how the Lunar ship has the specialized lunar landing engines midway up.

Can someone pitch me an alternate version of the Constellation program that would’ve worked? I’m thinking it was Shuttle-C

>>12242226
>same management
>same appropriations committee
>same contractors
>>>>>>>>>>working

>>12242226
Christ she's anorexic. I remember her being skinny in the show but she looks awful.

>>12242222
right i didn't think of that. this would be much easier, but then again it would probably be more simple to just design a new vehicle which is best suited for that particular task

Today in history:
>1604 – Kepler's Supernova is observed in the constellation of Ophiuchus.

>>12242094
Let's unpack that

>>12242226
Thank God “thicc” is in fashion now.

>>12242291
>A- am I too fat Anon?
>Maybe I should just have some fruit today...
>I’m trying to lose weight anon I feel so fag

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCRNUcHzzlA
Jim speaking live

>>12242291
>A- Anon am I too fat?

https://youtu.be/kRO_07nEi8g
based starship speculation?
pic related

>>12242017
>>12242130
Is the Stabilizer offset or is it just fucking with me?

>>12242317
c o s m i c d a w n

>>12241948
Much safer descent profile, generally Spaceplanes can handle reentry better and can glide for hundreds of miles if not thousands giving the crew a lot of freedom. Also, if you aren't using an ablative heatshield or whatever the fuck shuttle uses but something like Starship you can get much better turn around than capsules. Also, objectively cooler.

>>12242319
UHHHH THICCER

>gateway

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12242317
Just joined. What did I miss?

>>12242332
The Gateway is a cool idea but SLS flies like one a year so it’s shit. There is no problem with having a yearly lunar sortie while also having a mars mission ever other year (or four). But when you have to choose one or the other...sucks

>>12242359
Jim talked about gateway and reusable rockets like F9/Starship being a key aspect for sustainable spaceflight. He talked about NASA working on Nuclear thermal and Nuclear electric propulsion to speed up the flight to the Mars/deepspace. He said they have no plans for spinning station to simulate gravity but is open to unsolicited proposal from third parties.

>>12242283
Looks like a block of tofu on an intercept course with earth.

>>12242370
Gateway is the best thing he can push because once its built congress canteasily abandon it. So much like how the ISS nesseciated commercial resupply and crew because we coulsnt abandon it , gateway will nesseciate continuous investment and make it impossible to abandon the moon again

>>12242370
Gateway will likely usher commercial rocket launches to space/mars and it will be a proving grounds.

If I had to make an analogy then ISS is training wheel, Moon gateway will be riding around the block, Mars will be a great ocean voyage from the west coast to australia.

>>12242186
Engines work by taking in cold gasses, using fuel to heat them up, and then letting the high pressure hot gasses expand back to low pressure through a nozzle. This makes thrust.
If you're moving very fast, the air ramming into your engine is getting heated up by compression. This is a problem because if your engine can only handle 2000 degrees and the intake air is already at 1800 degrees, the combustion chamber of your engine will only be 200 degrees hotter than your intake, which means you get basically no thrust.
What the precooler does is take the incoming compressed hot air and removes that heat, so that the air can go into the combustion chamber at 100 degrees instead of 1800, getting you a temperature increase of 1900 degrees between compressor and combustion chamber, allowing you to produce significant thrust. The precooler needs a large supply of very cold fluid to work, which means you need to use your cryogenic fuel as your heat sink just like in a normal rocket engine. At very high speeds, the amount of coolant fuel required to keep the engine working is actually much more than the amount of fuel the engine needs to burn to operate, which results in a decrease in efficiency, but the fact that the engine is still air-breathing in that mode leaves it more efficient than a closed cycle rocket engine even when the hydrogen to air mixture is off stoichiometric by a factor of ten at least.
The two major issues with this technology are that the heat exchanger needs to somehow prevent ice formation (apparently solved, that was their breakthrough a while ago), and more importantly the fact that these things can still only get us to mach 5 or 6 before needing to switch to rocket mode anyway, because beyond those speeds cooling the air enough to allow the engine to run becomes less efficient than just using a rocket. Orbital velocity is ~mach 25, so this super complex engine cycle only gets you 1/5th the way to LEO.
Better to just use reusable TSTO.

>>12242399
unless of course it was written into law that gateway must use SLS

>>12242226
I want to make this bitch my girlfriend and feed her homemade bread and shit every day. It'd be like getting with a chubby retard in order to "fix her up" by taking her to the gym, except I'd be almost guaranteed to succeed, especially once I convinced her to carry my children

>>12242323
it's an artist rendering, don't think too much about it.

>>12242410
Sure, but there wont be a law to limit the use of other rockets for gateway. I'll say that commercial : nasa ratio for gateway will likely be 10:1. 10 commercial for 1 nasa.

>>12242411

>>12242411
Ah, a man of culture.

>>12242321
Both of his videos are very interesting from a design perspective, but it seems like he’s going for the most complicated solution possible with the most moving parts.

>>12242411
Uhhh based department? I think you need to see this.

>>12242226
>Can someone pitch me an alternate version of the Constellation program that would’ve worked?
I'm not going to posit that these technologies would have been ready by the time Constellation was being pitched, so basically assume that Constellation stays basically exactly as in our timeline and still fails, except maybe some tooling and transport architecture got built for the Ares 5.
That being said, in some alternate timeline NASA was able to continue development of SLI program technology, most notably the RS-83 and RS-84, a large hydrolox gas-generator engine and a large staged combustion hydrocarbolox engine respectively.
With these engines already built and tested and ready to go, the selection of a heavy launch vehicle design back in 2010 would have had a real chance of landing on a non-Shuttle derived design, assuming Shelby died of colon cancer or for whatever reason the political will to preserve Shuttle era jobs wasn't as strong as in our timeline.
When it comes to the design of the actual launch vehicle, basically we would be looking at the past for what worked and what didn't. Saturn V obviously was a massive success, so we'd probably end up with a similar design (big hydrocarbon fuel first stage pushing a big hydrolox second stage with a smaller hydrolox "beyond Earth orbit" stage on top of that).
With a focus in reducing costs instead of increasing capability per launch, it's possible that they'd land on the solution of mass production and simpler, more robust building materials (a la Falcon 9 and Starship) rather than ultra-specialized 'muh grams' autism, which would result in maybe 20 tons of payload to LEO being knocked off for the tradeoff of each launch being one quarter the cost. Of course they could probably just stretch the slightly less mass efficient tanks and get the same payload as the autistic design for a negligible cost increase.

>>12242436
>>12242321
Watching it, it looks fairly logical/simple that can scale well.

>>12242463
>>12242436
This guy is sure putting a lot of effort into this project, considering that the maximum possible value it will ever have for the actual Starship development process will be several engineers at SpaceX watching this video and picking out one or two good ideas and scrapping literally all of the complex shit.

>>12242429
Better version

>>12242321
That solar panel on the back of the vehicle would get baked to death by the first reentry the vehicle performed. Guy forgot that the only reason Starship can get away with TPS on the belly alone is because the steel construction can handle soaking up to at least 800 degrees without any issues and is only exposed to radiative heat from the plasma re-collapsing behind the vehicle. Solar panels are temperature sensitive and also have low albedo, meaning any surface mounted panels are going to be heated up way more than the bare skin AND they're gonna start experiencing damage at a way lower temperature.

>>12242507
You should let him know about that so that he doesn't make the same mistake in the next video.

>>12242515
Nah, that wouldn't be very darwinian of me

>>12242411
It's for you.

>>12242491
Have the dragon doing it in the background with the station that starliner yearns for and we're set.

>>12242159
This is actually a cogent political analysis on 4chan without using buzzwords or conspiracy. I feel like I just stepped into a time machine and went back to 2006.

>>12242159
No, the US will collapse into a civil war in only a few weeks and millions will die in it and it’ll last years

>>12242609
If we're lucky

>>12242094
Not only is this refreshing, this is a good question. Shelby’s hate for reluctance has become a big meme but I think we have forgotten the fact that this a) runs much deeper than shelby (lots of congress personnel hold money for SLS hostage, and are against depots because it threatens SLS) and b) he tried to get the ULA ceo fucking FIRED for even suggesting it. Now suddenly bruno (who replaced that CEO) is proposing it and NASA is dishing out contracts???

>>12242614
*hate for depots
I have no clue why my monkey brain typed reluctance

>>12242614
I think Shelby will be able to get over it so long as a number of the contractors involved have facilities in northern Alabama. Considering Marshall is almost certainly the NASA center running the show on this one, it can’t be that bad for Huntsville businesses.

>>12242622
To be fair, Shelby's hate for reluctance is also a pretty big meme

>>12242614
>Now suddenly bruno (who replaced that CEO) is proposing it and NASA is dishing out contracts
Because of the implication. The implication being Starship will completely obsolete ULA with no redeeming quality left for any legacy companies.

>>12242547
Thanks for the compliment anon
>>12242626
I mean that must have something to do with it. When it comes to money senators will always defend jobs in their state to absolute death, so we should probably assume there is going to be makeup jobs in Alabama if this goes through. Maybe ULA, the Alabama senatorial brain trust, or even NASA think that the SLS is not going to be long lived gravy train that was initially believed. So to make up for that they are going to concede that Orbital Fuel depots, orbital refueling, and maybe even orbital fuel manufacturing is inventible, forth-coming, and a much longer term output of cash for states like Alabama compared to defending a increasing obsolete super rocket. So because of that maybe they want to get a jump on those jobs so they stay in Alabama. Or Shelby could have lost what power he had over the R senatorial caucus a different way, we don't really know.

>>12242614
Depots + nuclear thermal will keep oldspace grounded and designing contracts for the next 50 years.

>>12242159
>Jones surviving Tuberville
This is probably one of the least likely things to happen this election.

>>12242641
>Maybe ULA, the Alabama senatorial brain trust, or even NASA think that the SLS is not going to be long lived gravy train that was initially believed
I think they all think that. SLS was EXPECTED to be a money machine... but I think the assumption was that Boeing would reap the R&D money whereas the states would reap the launch money once it started flying. But now the writing is on the wall; this rocket was officially conceited in 2011 and it isn't getting off the ground anytime soon. And by the time it does it will be BTFO'd by starship and new glenn and other launch providers. I think everyone realizes that they are about to get fucked over and trying to use it for profit the same way shuttle was used just isn't feasible. And NASA is the only one in a different boat. Their expectation was low but now it has exceeded the shit forecast they originally intended so they are throwing out depot and fuel transfer contracts because boeing has stirred the hornet nest too much

>>12242641
>ULA, the Alabama senatorial brain trust, or even NASA think that the SLS is not going to be long lived gravy train that was initially believed
This is highly likely. Disdain for the project is starting to be openly voiced from a number of sources that'd normally keep their mouths shut, and there does seem to be a tacit acceptance of the fact that the SLS is never going to fly often enough to be particularly useful. If anything anomalous happens on the green run or Artemis 1, I'd bet money that the whole program gets cancelled. As a result, most of the people that are working for the interests of the aerospace industry around Huntsville are already looking for alternative programs to maintain funding and employment.

>>12242666
>If anything anomalous happens on the green run or Artemis 1, I'd bet money that the whole program gets cancelled
Explains why the core stage has been sitting on the test standing doing nothing all year, Satan.

>>12242650
I mean we are in a D+ high single to low double digit national environment, higher turnout election, Jones is an incumbent, Tuberville is a mediocre to weak canidate, and higher black turnout all could put his odds higher than usual. On the otherhand it is Alabama, it is a Presidentially election so moderate R's who stayed home for Moore will probably come out in higher numbers. I put the odds for jones winning at best 1/5 to 1/20. So best case he has a 20% to 5% chance of victory which does fall in range of your statement.

>>12242658
That's true, but Boeing will have to get government money from somewhere over the next couple years. Their commercial airline division isn't making money due to obvious reasons, military aviation is also unlikely to be a cash drive because they fucked up the new fuel tanker program and f-15x's wont make up for those lost orders.

IIRC space is the only division of Boeing that is making money at the moment, but I don't foresee many big cash contracts coming down the pipeline for them anytime soon. So where will they get their next big government contract come from to keep the "healthy" during this next 5 year span? Orbital fuel might be a big ticket item that could pop up in 5 years so that could make sense.

>>12241236
This.

How does /sfg/ feel about the decline of democracy in the world? “End of history” my ass

>>12242671
>higher black turnout
We are seeing the opposite across the board, and as you realized we're talking about Alabama here. Take a look at even low-turnout POTUS years to see how incredibly lopsided the R vs D vote share is there.

>>12242679
Decline of democracy is due to stagnation of innovation in the western world. China is catching up to the west and they intend to spread their communist totalitarian ideology to the developing world. Once SpaceX puts boots on the Mars and get Mars colony going, Democracy will be in the vogue again.

>>12242410
it isn't though. gateway is getting resupplied by falcon heavy and dragon xl

>>12242679
Way way too early to tell. On the one hand we have seen a rise in authoritarian populism. On the other though, places that have not had the foundation for institutions that are supportive of democracy are developing them. One example that would a surprise is Iraq, right now we might be seeing the actual birth of an Iraqi national identity with these protests against Iranian militias that have been running around Iraq this decade. Now I'm not even close to expert, but my pal did a paper on it and we are now seeing protests in Iraq where the protestors are protesting as Iraqi's not as Sunni's or Shia's or some other aggrieved tribe. It still early to tell, but that could be a really interesting item that's developing.

Fukuyama was a moron with his idea of history, but we still shouldn't judge a half century long prediction on the events of half a decade. The pendulum might swing back towards liberal democracy over the coming decade.

>>12242696
Honestly, didn't expect that I haven't been tracking the demo's of early voting. I've mostly been assuming all the record breaking early voting turnouts we were seeing were a general cross-section of the population. Either way though Jones is a longshot by a wide margin.

>>12242696
Y'all ready to take the geologypill? The paleoshoreline from the Cretaceous directly influences how people vote in Alabama.

>>12242700
Democracy is shit. We should have an aristocratic republic like we had in the late 1700s and early 1800s.

>>12242707
>We are now seeing protests in Iraq where the protestors are protesting as Iraqi's not as Sunni's or Shia's or some other aggrieved tribe.
Huh that's pretty cool.

>>12242708
What the fuck

>>12242708
Yeah, that coastline has the best soil for agriculture, which was where the majority of high productivity and high African slave usage plantations were located. Partly due to the failures of reconstruction a majority of those descendants are still located in the same area.

>>12242679
The way i see it all this leftist totalitarianism&communism&SJW degeneracy that has been destroying the west is creating a whole now generation who wont stand for this shit and the problem will solve itself.
Hopefully without the need for war to clean out the "traitors"
But all this feels like a "good times create weak men, weak men create bad times" scenario.

And for all the people who are afraid of the CCP&china, those fuckers will balkanize in the next decade in a massive civil war at the rate they are going.

when will the first astronauts land on mercury?
>>12242740
what would happen to the world if both china and america balkanized

>>12242753
Russia would lauch all the way to the bank.
EU would have to protect it's own shipping lanes.
many chinese die from starvation.
California is renamed hell.

15km flight when? Also how is congress going to react when orbital refueling gets demonstrated. It seems like the main thing SLS has going for it is that it’s impossible to cancel...

>>12242767
And all the middle eastern nations invade israel at the same time.

>>12242772
Static fire test tomorrow(18-19-20) eve

>>12242404
not the anon you replied to but this was very informative. Thanks.

>>12242773
That's just utterly not true. The Syrians are too banged up from their civil to invade.The Egyptians already work with the Israeli's and prefer they are the ones who deal with the Gaza strip. Saudi Arabia likes Israel because they are a counterbalance to Iran. Iraq also is not cohesive enough to invade and again prefers the Israeli's a counterbalance to Iran. Finally, the Jordanians prefer the Israeli's keep existing because they help keep the lid on the odd relationship Jordan has with Palestinian refugees. This isn't the 60's anymore we dont have to pretend counter Jihads are a thing.
>>12242778
Seconding, this opinion.

>>12242372
Interplanetary spin grav NTR cyclers WHEN

>>12242700
>Once SpaceX puts boots on the Mars and get Mars colony going, Democracy will be in the vogue again.

Megacorporation domination isn’t democracy

>>12242707
>the other though, places that have not had the foundation for institutions that are supportive of democracy are developing them. One example that would a surprise is Iraq, right now we might be seeing the actual birth of an Iraqi national identity with these protests against Iranian militias that have been running around Iraq this decade. Now I'm not even close to expert, but my pal did a paper on it and we are now seeing protests in Iraq where the protestors are protesting as Iraqi's not as Sunni's or Shia's or some other aggrieved tribe.

Oh yeah nationalism is ALWAYS conductive to democracy....

>>12242805
yeah multiethnic states always work so well, like Yugoslavia and the Ottoman Empire

>>12241500
>>12241523
>still makes weed jokes on twitter

>>12242805
Nationalism no. A shared national identity, yes. States do have national identities without nationalism as a driving force. Its just hard to have a stable civil society with a representative democracy running things if a portion of the people represented don't feel like they share an identity or common goals with other people within the state. Iraqi being an actual identity doesn't automatically lead to Iraq uber alles, it can if motivated by the state and other figures, but its not an inherent feature of national identity.

>>12242679
Massive amount of income/wealth disparity is leading into another great depression. Couple that with the rise of automatiom and the middle class will cease to exist; it will be a few trillionaires and their billions of slaves.
The people who speak out against this or want something different are branded as communists by conservative NPCs whos opinions are manipulated by a few corporate think tanks that own media conglomerates. Nothing will improve as long as there are people who think that human rights are communist.

>>12242810
Homogeneity is always better. Diversity is suicide.

>>12242837
Human rights don’t exist.

High bypass nuclear thermal turbojet engines for ocean liner sized aircraft on Titan when, lads?

>>12241948
much easier rapid reusability than capsules (no folding up parachutes) and it's much easier to fit propulsion into it (see: Starship)

>>12242865
Starship is not a spaceplane, it's not a capsule either, it's a totally new thing.
Describing Starship as a spaceplane is like trying to call a car a trackless train.

>>12242837
>conservative NPCs
lol projection

>>12242889
it's a spaceplane though

>>12242889
>like trying to call a car a trackless train.
I do call them that though

>>12242889
>describing starship as a spaceplane is like trying to call a car a horseless carriage
???

>>12242891
Why?

>>12242891
it isn't, it doesn't fly or glide

>>12242899
it's got big flappy bits
>>12242903
it totally does

>>12242906
it doesn't, it falls controllably

>>12242903
it stalls gracefully like a dead duck spiraling toward the ground

starship is a ship, it's right there in the name

>>12242910
flying is just falling with style

>>12242906
>it's got big flappy bits
Those flaps aren't wings though. They don't generate lift- in fact they do the complete opposite
>it totally does
Its glide ratio is literally 0. Capsules have a better glide radio than starship. It falls out of the sky

starship is a featherless biped

>>12242916
>they don't generate lift, they do the complete opposite
they create suction toward the ground?

>>12242917
it has six legs and an exoskeleton, it's an insect

>>12242539

>>12242923
They create drag. Spaceplanes and capsules generate lift. Starship uses drag to create a differential so it can point different directions and fall at different angles to control where it lands. I can't think of ANY plane that only uses drag to fly

>>12242916
Starship is a body lift spacecraft with large trim flaps. It can do glide slope of zero, and it can also set itself in an angled body position to achieve directional control similar to how a capsule works, by shunting more air mass off to one side than the other.

>>12242799
The corporation is superior to the state

>>12242942
>>12242946
People don't like innovation. People also don't like new categories.

>>12242942
That's the thing, Starship doesn't even fly, it just falls. It's a controlled fall, like a capsule, but also like a capsule Starship has zero ability to pull up out of a dive; it can merely deflect its heading by a few degrees or tens of degrees.

>>12242946
It isn't a lifting body though. It's just a cylinder. Capsules generate lift. Capsules are, in essence, closer to a lifting body entity like shuttle or X-24/HL-10 than whatever the fuck starship is

>>12242319
more throostin for the boostin

>>12242960
a cylinder is a shitty lifting body, but it is a lifting body

>>12242917
BEHOLD, A MAN

>>12242972
historians will look back on this image in confusion and awe

>>12242967
But would you consider a falcon 9 first stage a lifting body? Starship and F9 are the same thing. Only difference is that starship will have a nosecone for aerodynamics. They are propulsive landing skydive rockets. Starship just does a belly flop to bleed off a lot of its energy which everyone here is confusing with "flying"

>>12242972
Elon may steal SPACE from Russians, but he will never be of having T-I-G-E-E-R-S.

>>12242979
yes, F9 generates significant body lift and can go tens of miles crossrange

>>12242889
It's a methalox von Braun ferry rocket

>>12242912
no, it's a star you dip, it's right there in the name

>>12242979
>But would you consider a falcon 9 first stage a lifting body?
Yes. A shitty lifting body is still a lifting body, for the same reason a shitty glider like Shuttle is still a glider. Actually, Falcon 9 is more of a lifting body than Starship in some ways, because a lifting body generally points into the air stream with a decently large angle of attack whereas Starship will point close to 90 degrees away from the air stream to maximize surface area presented to the stream.

>>12242979
that's what flying looks like in the hypersonic regime

>>12242979
To clarify, just because Starship is a lifting body doesn't mean it flies. Capsules are lifting bodies and they do not fly.

>>12243039
>>12243033
>>12243000
>>12242979
I propose that we all agree to give the type of body lift that the Falcon 9 booster, capsules, and Starship share a new name, "body shunting". This distinguishes them from classic lifting body vehicles like >>12242960 which can actually sustain horizontal flight, as opposed to a body shunting vehicle which produces a 'lift' force which is far smaller than the drag force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esMtF333cgQ
Will starship be used as a crni bombarder?

>>12243063
not for a while, no
not until it's time to throw rocks

>>12242948
Enjoy your company town on Mars. Your owners will certainly enjoy it.

>>12243084
A corporation ceases to be one in the absence of competition. The consumer must have discretion.

>>12243039
I- I'm just more confused now. I didn't realize falcon generated "lift" aerodynamically speaking. And it doesn't fly like a glider so now I have flip flopped my opinion like 7 or 8 times in the past 30 minutes alone

>>12243105
retard
in the hypersonic regime, Starship is more like a spaceplane (the shuttle, Dreamchaser) than a capsule because it has really good hypersonic L/D
in the subsonic regime, both it and Falcon 9 have more in common with a brick than anything else lmao, but they both can generate significant lift forces if they wish (just not enough to halt their fall)

>>12243105
Everything generates lift, it's the lift to drag ratio that's important.

>>12243084
Don't worry. You can live on government owned town on Mars. Make sure you can survive the radiation and the cold outdoors.

satellites are big, huh

>>12243113
Isn't its drag way higher in the hypersonic regime because it needs to kill a bunch of kinetic energy? The drag would be WAY higher in the [math]\frac{L}{D}[/math] equation so you would have shitty glide capability on purpose

>>12243138
no, making lots of lift is better
it's the ballistic coefficient that needs to be bad

I'm off to work now, this is my last response
the reason high lift/drag is good is because it lets you stay in the thin upper atmosphere longer

>>12243149
This, and crossrange capability is a knock-on benefit but not the real goal. Crossrange capability is what lets you target a small landing site from far away.

>>12242972
>t. Diogenes of Boca Chica

ITT: falcon 9 is a plane

Okay what the fuck is the reentry profile? It's closer to shuttle's right?

>>12243234
Yes, it's closer to the Shuttle's until it does an anime ninja backflip burn to land.

>>12243234
Shuttle is a reverse capsule not a spaceplane

>>12243234
I think it goes for near 90° AOA, so tangential to the velocity vector

>What happened in 1942?
>Well, we know that Columbus sailed
Jim I'm not so sure about that

>>12243296
1492

>>12243105
do you even lift?

>>12243296
Elon please buy Zubs a trip to the same guy who did your hairplugs

>>12243137

Some can be pretty big but all depends on what it should do.

>>12243301
Poor Jim mispoke and said 1942

>>12243311
POWER UP THE BASS CANNON

>>12243316
Secret Gopnik Space Force weapon.

>>12243311
ok, this is a dumbfuck question but I've never actually known the answer: why is all that tinfoil looking stuff so ubiquitous on orbital spacecraft?
Is it just there to offer some small degree of insulation/protection to sensitive components while also being extremely lightweight?

>>12243350
It offers excellent insulation against radiant heat exposure from sunlight and weighs almost nothing.

>>12243350
yes, pretty much. And the "foil" is just polyimide and polyester with thin aluminum layers. keeps the batteries warm so they don't fail immediately

>>12243350
it's for insulation, it reflects light so things don't get too toasty or cold inside
usually it's coated with some kapton on the outside for better reflection of infrared that gives it the gold color, but it's basically the same aluminized mylar that emergency blankets are made out of except with multiple layers of the stuff separated by thin mesh to keep them out of contact with each other to minimize heat conduction

>>12243309
Hair implants are a hit and miss, musk was at the time of his transplant not that old, it must have helped a lot too.
Musk's situation is pretty much a best case scenario.

>>12243387
it also has the benefit of providing a bit of protection from dust impacts and such, so sometimes it will be placed a cm or so away from the surface on the same principle as whipple shields and some beta cloth or something layers added in too like the blanket wrap on soyuz
often it's full of holes like pic related, which reduces the effectiveness slightly but allows air to escape during launch without damaging anything

>>12243387
>the sun is a nuclear power plant
>regardless of whether solar or internal, spacecraft are nuclear powered blankie forts
The future is comfy.

>>12243453
I watched an animation of a full Ares V launched Mars mission and got irrationally angry that the only thing returned to Earth for reuse was a fucking Orion capsule. At the end of such a mission you'd be no closer to doing it again than when you started. The mistakes of Apollo!

>>12243462
I really like the Deep Space Transport option if they could just replace the xenon-propellant ion thrusters with something capable of being refueled via Martian ISRU. It seems much more reusable.

>>12243483
methane VASMIR with oxygen afterburners

>>12243493
VASIMR is a fucking meme. It needs 60 megawatts of electricity to do any good. I want pic related with chilly magnets and CO2 propellant.

>>12243501
call me a brainlet but I don't understand the difference between this and VASMIR

>>12243501
solar

>>12243505
brainlet

>>12243509
seriously though isn't the concept behind both of them "microwave a bunch of whatever until it's plasma and shoot it out the back with magnets"

>>12243505
The HDLT uses a trick with RF exciter antennas and solenoid magnets to get the gas to self-organize into a double layer plasma so you need way less electricity to get high Isp and decent thrust. It can also use much cheaper propellant. VASIMR weighs ten tons and uses argon gas to get a pathetic 40 fucking newtons of thrust.

Critically, the HDLT can also use CO2 propellant, which makes Mars ISRU trivial.

http://www.researchcareer.com.au/archived-news/testing-ground-set-for-plasma-jar-to-the-stars

why are there like a billion space thrust concepts but no one ever builds them? sounds like it's all horseshit to me

>>12243524
engineers keeping busy in the 40 years where nothing space related was happening

>>12243524
No money because SLS keeps on eating all the funds
>though smallsat thrusters are seeing a lot of interest and variability

>>12243524
Electrical thrusters need megawatts of electricity to be useful at manned spacecraft scales, and that means either massive orbital solar farms with killsat-class lasers, or nuclear reactors in space. Both options make politicians twitchy.

red rocket

>>12243542
>dogmeat

>>12243524
There’s like a billion proposals and “concepts” for fusion engines alone. I think it’s a combo of lack of R&D and not having mastery over the technology yet

>>12243524
Taking idea to prototype is hard.
Taking prototype to production is 1000x harder.

This is why idea guys are useless. Only engineers can make things happen. The rest of the guys just talk a lot of shit.

>>12242837
>The people who speak out against this or want something different are branded as communists
Marx literally seeked to destroy the middle class you stupid nigger and having a few people on the top and millions of working class slaves is exactly what communists want. In fact in every western country it's always the leftwing Democrats that manage to screw over the middle class and pushes everyone to the bottom while sucking cock of the ultra rich who pay for all their campaigns.

>trump mentioning landing people on the moon and mars at the end of every rally
what does it mean?

>>12243234
It starts in a belly flop, then flips vertical just before landing.

>>12243699
It means he knows the American people love big inspiring accomplishments like that, and that he's serious about doing it.

>>12243730
I ever there was a president serious about achieving space accomplishments, it has to be Trump. Every other one before him promoted space out of obligation and even JFK was trying to cancel the moon program before he was killed. Trump is the only president with a public ego big enough to get genuine satisfaction out of space flight

>>12243746
This, Bridenstine should (assuming he's still in after November) really pitch a much greater expansion of space projects to Trump, but through the context of it being the "ultimate" business investment for the US. There is not only absolute military leverage involved in permanent occupation of space, but also absolute economic superiority guaranteed to whomever seizes control of LEO to safely transfer resources and of other celestial bodies to harvest them.
A successful asteroid mining industry for example, could completely overturn China's absolute hegemony over rare-earth metal markets overnight which would be strongly in the interests of the US and US businesses.

>>12243746
JFK was not trying to cancel it, though he didnt care so much for exploration and space travel. Oliver Stone's movie perpetuated this bunk that he was against it. He may have had doubts, but so did everyone.

>>12243761
Tesla's battery plant in the US/German would mean they wouldn't have to rely on the Chinese for rare earth metals in battery. They already don't use any rare earth metal for their motors but with new American battery supply being created by them, rare earth metals become non-issues for battery driven hardware.

>>12243772
True, but rare earths such as gold, platinum, iridium, neodymium, etc are still mostly concentrated in places not controlled by the US, on Earth anyways. It's not within US interests at least to have the plurality of the world's rare metals controlled by it's economic and political enemy.
You're right about batteries though, lithium isn't exceedingly rare and newer battery processes are relying less and less on cobalt, and eventually even lithium will probably be phased out for much cheaper sodium or much more energy dense potassium.

>>12243772
There are no rare earth metals in batteries to begin with.

>>12243786
>rare earths

>>12243793
They do, two of the most common L-ion battery processes for cathodes are Lithium-Cobalt Oxide and Lithium-Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt. One of the things next-gen battery chemists are working at is minimizing or eliminating completely the need for cobalt in the cathode material.

>>12243806
Whatever the fuck, expensive metals which are necessary for certain vital components of technology. I'm not a minerologist or miner, I don't know the specific jargon.

>>12243809
You know what lithium, cobalt, oxygen, nickel, and manganese have in common? They're not rare earth metals.
And yes I am very well aware of the elimination of cobalt for high energy density batteries that basically every battery manufacturer is working on and that Tesla is about to roll out. That doesn't make it a rare earth metal because words mean things, and it has nothing really to do with China. What is the case is that it is part of a strategy that will allow them to, in the long term, localize production to all of their respective facilities.

2024 guys, i promise

>>12243768
Well he was trying to make it an international mission with the soviets in order to shed costs and responsibility. In any case he wasn't too keen. In fact the most space friendly president was probably LBJ

>>12243820
Frankly if Starship is only making its first orbital flight in 2024 I'll be happy. To have an actual interplanetary spacecraft in active development is a blessing. Not to mention reusable to boot. The early 2000's to early 2010's was such a miserable time for space exploration

>>12243827
>joint mission between USSR and USA
Holy shit that would've been cool

>>12243839
Would have been cool but also impossible. The US's main goal was to catch up with Soviet rocketry knowledge and the Soviets big fear was that the US was trying to steal their rocketry knowledge

>>12243814
>I'm not a minerologist or miner
Based

>>12243827
The somewhat-secret national security concern that drove Apollo was a fear that the Soviets were going to plant a flag on the moon and claim it as their territory. If that happened we were going to have to establish our own moonbases to stake out our own turf. An international moon mission would have prevented that contingency just as well as Apollo would have, although ultimately the Outer Space Treaty did it first. I don't think Kennedy seriously expected the Soviets to accept the offer.

>>12243746
>Trump is the only president with a public ego big enough to get genuine satisfaction out of space flight
He also likes building things, accomplishing things, setting records, and winning. Building giant space rockets and doing unprecedented things with them totally counts.

>>12243868
I think the bigger fear was that if Russian rocketry is so good then the rest of their engineering sector must be doing great too. The same way today China thinks investing in their space program will help modernise the rest of their industry. And so the US put billions into the space program to leap frog ahead. It's worth noting that no major US or Soviet general saw any practical benefit to space beyond a spy satellite capacity

>>12243881
Generals in the 1960s had served under fucking cavalry officers earlier in their careers, notably Patton. Expecting them to understand space was unrealistic.

>>12243889
But they weren't wrong. Space warfare is still an impractical meme outside of keeping a crazy amount of nukes in orbit

>>12243881
After 1970 it's true there was no perceived need for manned military spaceflight, but in the early 60s the Air Force had several generals who saw Orion battlefleets as inevitable, including chief of staff Curtis Lemay.
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/2714/1

>>12243892
>in the early 60s the Air Force had several generals who saw Orion battlefleets as inevitable,
What a timeline to live in. Soviet Russia and the US rushing out to Jupiter and Saturn in Orion-esque battleships to conquer land for their nation

>>12243896
>What a timeline to live in. Soviet Russia and the US rushing out to Jupiter and Saturn in Orion-esque battleships to conquer land for their nation
We got fucking ROBBED.

>>12243899
>muh safety
>muh "one person somewhere will probably die from radiation poisoning after every Orion launch"
Cowards, the lot of them

Crowdfunded Mars colonial expeditions when?

>>12243909
See Mars One or Inspiration Mars to see how that works out

>>12243909
>>12243913
You'll get tons of supporters - if you can prove that you can do it.
Land a probe on the moon, then crowd fund the next step. Do it incremental. But nobody, besides the naive, is giving you money unless you have done something like this in the past.
Look at the Planetary Society.... what the shit have they done?

>>12243909
Mars ticket would cost ~$300K per person. So everyone can afford it if they work hard for ~10 years. $70K/y - 30K for living expenses = $400K from just savings. If you invest those and have it grow, you could double/triple or have more growth

>>12243927
Lowkey I think Bill Nye is a shit fetishist

>>12243937
...w-what!?

>>12243913
I'm talking after SpaceX proves it out, not some scammers. Maybe university funded, angel investors, pooled colonists net worths. Think along the lines of the Mayflower
>About 70 investors, known as merchant “adventurers,” pooled together capital andfundedthe passage.

>>12243899
>no standoff in Titan orbit between interplanetary orions commanded by Jim McDivitt and the Marshal of Space himself, Alexei Leonov.

>>12243867
Literal mineralogist here. Literally fuck my life it's just excel files that always return irreversible errors if you hit ctrl+c and try to copy your data. Trying to deal with this as we speak

>>12243909
I'm gonna start an organization, call it the Heinlein Society, with the explicit purpose of establishing a libertarian colony on the moon.
Leave all you government honeys behind.

>>12243956
paste without formatting you idiot

Pushback against mega constellations is slowly growing. I'm starting to worry about it. This is a NYT reporter.

>>12243971
>This is a NYT reporter.
So it's nothing, got it.

>>12243971
guess we'll just have to build an observatory on the far side of the moon

>>12243971
Starship can yeet telescopes cheaper than you can rent land from some dumb tribe on a mountain.

>>12243957
And when they get uppity, we will throw rocks down at them.

>>12243971
HAHA fuck ground astronomy virgins, innovate and invest in space, retards. Does it not occur to them that they could design a distributed aperture earth sized telescope built on a starlink bus? For the same they spend on JWST they could form a MASSIVE telescope constellation of thousands of cheap sats surrounding the Earth.

>>12243971
Literally who?
>New York Slimes
Dinosaur media are ever-more irrelevant with each passing year. They'll be the Myspace of information dissemination within the decade.

>>12243971
>same bitch that zubrin slapped down

>>12243980
Fucking yup. When will they learn?

>>12243984
I don't think that'll be necessary. But yes, violate the NAP and we'll through rocks at you.
Now all I need is a self-aware computer to pick out the best targets.

>>12244002
>Now all I need is a self-aware computer to pick out the best targets.
or just a map of Israel and a targeting computer

>>12243971
Ground astronomy is objectively worse by any metric unless you're on the moon's far side

>>12243971
Bros what if Zuma cloaking tech was actually pushed for by SpaceX to be used on Starlink

>>12244005
>or just a map of Israel and a targeting computer
That works, too.

>>12244011
Zuma never existed

How much more is there to learn from ground-based astronomy anyway? Mega constellations might be annoying to hobbyists but in terms of major breakthroughs in physics/astronomy surely the future in off-Earth observatories and satellites

>>12244002
>What are they gonna do, drop rocks on us?
>-quote from city glassed
tanstaafl Earthworms

>>12244015
launching empty rockets just to fuck with other countries would be some next-level counter-espionage

>>12244023
>I'll just grab this girl's ass
>Quote from man airlock'd

>>12244019
There's some stuff, but few and far between. The atmospheric correction models are getting to the point where we're not sure that data we're getting is even real as it's being filtered so goddamn much

>>12243990
Someone has to actually build that and plan it out,that's a good ways away. These people are openly contemptuous of a technology that could elevate billions of people out of poverty because it will make astronomy more difficult for at most a decade. It's bad. We have to keep an eye on it.

>>12244019
There's plenty to learn from ground base astronomy. However that doesn't mean off world astronomies can't fulfill the same task. Far side of the moon is a perfect place for astronomy that can't be replicated on Earth. So there's plenty of opportunity.

>>12244032
If you can correct for atmospheric distortion can't you also correct for starlink?

>>12244029
>They're just some convicts, what do I have to worry about?
>quote from dead Wart

>>12244046
Yup, and they do, just as they correct for meteor streaks and other satellites. This is why the complaints are manufactured.

>>12243990
>Does it not occur to them that they could design a distributed aperture earth sized telescope built on a starlink bus?
No it doesn't because these people are incompetent rubes.

>>12244046
Yeah but astronomy is low tech stuff. Literally, they're stuck in the 1940s level software technology.

>>12244039
They will never get what they want with these monolith observatories. Someone needs to invest in mass production of space telescopes. The astronomy community is too thick skulled to see

>>12244048
>We're so deep underground we don't have to worry about getting hurt
>Quote from man who lost his computer best friend

Mass produced nautilus array when
http://nautilus-array.space/nautilus-array/

>>12243971
Do these have any affect on radio astronomy? Or any type of astronomy besides visual?

When will we see this?

>>12244068
IIRC the stretched fairing will be used for delivering some Gateway modules in expendable config.

>>12244068
Big fairing falcon heavy has that titan iv aesthetic.

space exploration kills blacks. defund space

>>12244084
Good, fund space.

>>12244084
you are making a strong case for more funding then

>tfw is gonna be November soon
Green run test for SLS when? What's the chances it gets delayed (again) to 2021?

Remember to exercise and not be a weak bitch

>>12244111
Those are some impressive digits

>>12244106
RUD on the pad after an RS-25 pops one of it's nightmarishly complex hydrogen seals.

>>12243234
it is identical to the shuttle until it's subsonic, and then it's belly on to the airflow in the skydive

>>12244120
why are they so complex?

does anybody have the different tiers of service that the FCC is giving out money for in the rural internet subsidy stuff

>>12244128
Because space is hard, and you have to use Hydrogen to make engineers feel good

>>12244128
Hydrogen is really hard to contain in a high pressure plumbing system because it's the smallest, lightest element, under pressure it really likes to squeeze it's way through seals.

>>12244128
Engineers decided it was easier to invent an incredibly complex, expensive, hard to manufacture, "reusable" hydrolox engine, and tanks, to store the hardest to use fuel on the periodic table, vs just using a fuel different than Kerolox or Hydrolox lmao, and said the efficiency justifies the insane price, and extremely poor performance as a first stage engine

>>12244111
Had a sick workout today and fucked my legs up. gonna do it again tomorrow FUCK YEAH

>>12244084
what's the best way to simulate gainstation on earth? I want to become hyperhuman on mars

>>12244184
>extremely poor performance as a first stage engine
Why is hydrolox so shit as a first stage propellant? It would be madness to even consider using a fuel with so many downsides if its performance wasn't grossly superior.

>>12244197
whoops, ignore the reply

>>12242708

"The Black Belt is a region of the U.S. state of Alabama. The term originally referred to the region's rich, black topsoil, much of it in the soil order Vertisols. The term took on an additional meaning in the 19th century, when the region was developed for cotton plantation agriculture, in which the workers were enslaved African Americans. After the American Civil War, many freedmen stayed in the area as sharecroppers and tenant farmers, continuing to comprise a majority of the population in many of these counties.

The physical geography of the "Black Belt," as related to the history of this cotton-dependent region, refers to a much larger region of the Southern United States, stretching from Delaware to Texas but centered on the Black Belt of uplands areas of Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Belt_%28region_of_Alabama%29

>>12244197
Live in a giant vomit comet.

>>12241559
>>12241562
>>12243971
Vapid journho can push back on muh dick

>>12244200
>Why is hydrolox so shit as a first stage propellant?
First stages are thrust limited, not Isp limited.
>It would be madness to even consider using a fuel with so many downsides if its performance wasn't grossly superior.
Yes, it is. The Shuttle and SLS SRBs are the largest solid rockets ever built by a huge margin, all to get those wheezy hydrolox stages off the pad up to vacuum where they can perform as expected.

Lmao Zubrin has adware injected in his chrome browser

>>12244200
It is strictly speaking the highest ISP of the simple bipropellant rockets. You can get higher performances with more extreme oxidizers than pure oxygen, or with tripropellant rockets that utilize a third lithium fuel element, however these rockets have generally been deemed both too complicated and too dangerous for any serious usage.
The HydroLOX trap as I've come to call it has to do with the paper performance of a LOX/LH2 rocket being so good if and only if you completely ignore all real world confounding factors. Yes, LOX/LH2 rockets are strictly speaking about 25-35% more efficient than equivalently sized LOX/Kerosene or LOX/CH4 rockets, however this is confounded by the density of the fuel and how that effects the size and mass of tankage, it's cost, and the time needed to manufacture it, as well as a requirement for onboard cryogenic cooling and implications about long term storage.
The specific reason why it's a bad first stage propellant is to do with it's density, if you build two engines that are both say, two tons in weight, the mass flow rate (how much weight in liquid propellant the turbomachines can move) of the LOX/LH2 rocket will always be inferior, because to move the same mass of LH2 the pump must move a much larger volume of it, necessitating either A: A much larger turbopump, or B: A lower mass flow rate for the same sized turbopump. Either way you end up with inferior thrust-to-weight ratio, which, outside of reliability is probably the most important thing for a sea level takeoff engine.

>>12244168
>it really likes to squeeze it's way through seals
And some solid materials too

>>12244212
OH NONONO

>>12244111
>>12244115
>>12244185

>>12244227
Y O U
J U S T
K N O W

>>12244217
did it show in a zoom call?

>>12244232
thank u for posting von brawn, i couldnt find my copy.

>>12244232
>Wernher von Brawn

>>12244128
>>12244161
>>12244168
>>12244184
The difficult seal is the one between the oxygen impeller and the fuel-rich gas powered turbine making that impeller spin.
A full flow staged combustion hydrolox engine would not have that issue. If it leaks, it leaks. There're no rotating elements connecting two pressurized chambers with incompatible fluids in a FFSC engine.
>>12244200
It has low density. Low density means to get the same mass flow rate the engine needs a much higher volumetric flow rate, meaning bigger and heavier pumps. Mass flow rate and chamber pressure are the heaviest hitters when it comes to determining thrust output. Therefore, to achieve the same thrust, a hydrolox engine needs bigger, more expensive, and harder to manufacture components than a non-hydrolox engine.

Hydrolox is a good choice in some niches. The issue is that somehow the 'common sense' of the industry has evolved into "Hydrogen is great and the best choice all the time because it's got the best efficiency", which is just not true.

>>12244239
yeah it was in the final posted stream. not really that big a deal, just an adware extension. it was funnier when he got flustered by the intern chick just before presenting the awards

>>12243971
reducing light pollution would be nice, true, and I hope they strive to better it. But keep in mind that this isn't exactly coming from an unbiased source. That "journalist" is a walking stereotype of am upper-class woke white lib Karen and she possesses an obvious hatred of Musk.

>>12244227
Built for BBC

>>12244253
Why are airheads so attractive bros? I want to throatfuck and hummiliate this broad.

>>12244206
>>12244197
Gravitron with a bench.

>>12244253
Stop posting screenshots of Twitter retards

>>12244258
>Why are borderline retarded thots hot?
Gotta reproduce somehow.

>>12244266
>>12244206
I feel like neither of these are ideal since you'll still be pulled toward earth's center of gravity

>>12244253
>make electric cars commercially viable and sexy from being widely seen as a joke technology in a decade
>promote and build solar and power storage infrastructure in an effort ot make ofssil fuels obsolete
>radically innovate lithium ion battery tech in energy density,scalability with the explicit goal of combating global warming

>some cunt who has never done anything except write articles acts like streaky astro photos make you Hitler McExxon Valdez

wtf

>>12244279
Well, you're not going to perfectly simulate centrifugal "gravity" when you're already in the presence of a large gravitational field. If you just wanted to feel a somewhat similar effect to high G, just wear a weight vest and belt. Those are already used for building muscle to passively increase the difficulty of certain exercises.

>>12244279
the acceleration components combine in the gravitron so from your perspective at the set RPM you experience acceleration perpendicular with the wall. Just keep precession in mind for circular movements.

What happens in those weird towns in the former USSR made for scientific research?

>>12244285
>his workers work hard
>they should be lazy instead

LOOK OUT BELOW

>>12244331
You mean those gulags for scientists? Probably abandoned.

>>12244346
and i thought the soyuz was a tight fit

>>12244351
Many are still running and remain restricted areas, but most either stopped running or became normal jurisdictions

>>12244356
iirc Kamchatka used to be locked down like that and now they have ecotourism

Ok buddy boys, I finished Dune. It was good, but I feel it's overhyped. Need to get some recommendations for a based spaceflight must-read. Thanks bros

>>12244472
If you read through to God Emperor for full comprehension of the Golden Path, it actually makes you a better human being.

Launch thread tomorrow morning. More Starlink

>>12244484
I don't think I have the motivation unfortunately. I will remain a shit

>>12244472
40k books

>>12244472
Arrival by Ryk Brown.

>>12244519
i've heard some 40k books are really good and others are super shitty

>>12244472
seveneves, especially the first half is extremely /sfg/pilled

>>12244535
well there's hundreds of them so just pick the ones that sound interesting. or just read the wiki instead

>>12244537
unfortunately the setup for the future portion was so retarded I can't bring myself to read it a second time

>>12244472
couple anons swear by heinlein, but i never read his stuff

>>12244472
The Cities in Flight novels.

>>12244567
Fortunately, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is so completely libertarian that its PDF is easily found on page 1 of a google search.

>>12241043
i think people are ignoring this growing "anti-space must stay on earth cuz feed the brown people" sentiment i see under elon musk tweets that i dont see in another tweets for billionaires doing mundane shit.
This could eventually turn into some political movement or terrorist faction. the stay on earth movement.

>>12244601
We're not ignoring it, it's just been shitposted to death already.

>>12244601
wokists are incapable of stopping it. they are feeble-minded and soft. the longevity of spacex will be secured via massive DoD interest and there's nothing these drooling pacifists can do about it.

>>12244601
It's a loud minority who are self-feeding NPC's. They always have to outdo eachother with outlandish ideologies that get crazier and crazier over time. It's only amplified because of the internet. Even if their ideas became law, Musk would just launch to Mars anyways and they wouldn't go. Hopefully we all go with him

>>12244606
remember when people made fun of wokeists and now they've invaded every aspect of our culture.

>>12244628
The tide is already turning against them, particularly with critical race theory getting banned.

>>12244274
the fact these retards get so many likes worries me

>>12244472
Blindsight.

>>12241043
>>12241043
also what do you guys think about things like space yachts for the discerning trillionaire who wants to just away from it all. Basically imagine bezos having a specialty rocket for himself modded out for luxury.

>>12244709
I think that's fucking awesome. People that rich have servants so it's going to be a major driver of making spaceflight accessible to plebes.

>>12243746
>>12243746
one of the ups of having a narcissist as a president is he will want his name to live on throughout the eons. One major way he will hope to do this is putting a person on the moon.

>>12244726
Moonbase Donald

Boring company is honestly more important than SpaceX is

>>12244724
yeah i can totally imagine bezos or a bezos type having a slick looking spaceyacht.nothing too big off course. It may just be capable of landing on low g planets like the moon or mars. Of course the support staff will be lucky but theyll also have to basically be at Msc level to hitch a ride.

>>12244285
It's very typical for women to lock on a single random issue, no matter how small and irrelevant, that then becomes the source of all evil in their mind and they come out to fight in full force completely ignoring consequences or collateral damage. That's why you should never let them make decisions more important than what's for dinner tonight and even then watch them carefully so they don't go full retard with something like vegan stuff, or garlic, or carrots, or "nooo this slightly yellowish spot on your steak is literally cancer, call for biohazard disposal crew!!!111"

>>12244799
yes womens sufferage was clearly a mistake and im not trying to be edgy

>>12244472
worldwar series is bretty gud
basically an alt history where lizard ayys invade during ww2 and everyone has to team up to fight them

Imagine how much cooler the Shuttle could have been if not for that stupid O ring flaw.
>Centaur launches for high energy probes
>fast launch cadence
>military demand causing more Shuttles to be built
>Shuttle C and advanced orbiter options by the 90s
>Mars Direct with Shuttle C or a derived EELV

>>12244513
If you only read the first book then yeah, you will continue feeling that it's "overhyped". That was like reading "The Hobbit" and wondering why Tolkien is so "overhyped".

>>12244618

Or Musk could open SpaceX branches in Russia and France to still be able to launch to Mars. Heck, maybe even India at this point.

Did anyone read the NexusAurora paper? https://nexusaurora.com/report.pdf

It won the Mars Society's Mars Colony design contest today. I only looked at it briefly but it seems to be based on SpaceX's plans (Starship, access to water, maximizing atmosphere for Starship to land in, 1 million people in the colony). They even have orbital infrastructure designed like Starship fuel depots (pic related).

"First person on Mars. I'm convinced that the first person to step foot on Mars will arrive there riding on a Boeing rocket," Muilenburg confidently said during a Boeing-sponsored tech summit in Chicago