/sci/ - Science & Math

You can't handle the truth

>>12226360
>facts
>morality

>>12226360
The WHO has proven themselves to be actively detrimental with all the dogshit they pumped out the last year.

>>12226360
The World Health Organization is the most capable medical group on the planet. Think of it as X-COM or the Navy S.E.A.L.S., but for doctors. Every year a gruelling contest is held to see who are the best surgeons and physicians, technicians and researchers from every country. They are subjected to a battery of psychological tests to make sure they are totally incorruptible, show leadership qualities and can make hard, rational decisions under pressure. After all, the whole world may depend on it. In an average year only a handful -- the cream of the crop -- are admitted to the WHO. That's why it's wrong to criticize them. They are the best of the best.

>>12226360
illuminati gay ops, that negro is a communist

>>12226447
>The World Health Organization is the most capable medical group on the planet. Think of it as X-COM or the Navy S.E.A.L.S., but for doctors
This is the cringeist shit I have ever read on this board. Jesus christ get a gf and have sex incel

>>12226447
They don't have any testing at all, you just send your CV there and you're hired.

As with all big institutions it's probably easier to get hired if you're a minority or/and sexual deviant neo-gender person.

They destroyed their reputation with their early COVID advice, I don't listen to them when it comes to pandemic advice and I'm a doctor.

>>12226360
So the first lockdown was about flattening the curve and allowing herd immunity to build up in a controlled manner right? But now that's immoral? Furthermore herd immunity may not even be possible if the virus reinfects people, in which case what's the point in keeping the lockdown going? The virus spreading uncontrollably would be inevitable whether we end lockdown now or a year later when the economy has crashed.

>>12226360
What the fuck does this schizophrenic want?! He doesn't want lockdowns, he doesn't want herd immunity, he admits that vaccines are years away, 10% of the planet already had the virus and survived, what the fuck does he want to do other than aimlessly mope and moan about everything?

>>12226534
At some point "flatten the curve" got abandoned in favor of "nobody gets sick ever again"

>>12226372
>2edgy4u
>>12226375
Except they're right in this case. Relying on herd immunity would yield many more deaths than necessary.
>>12226465
>Facebook boomer who clicked on /sci/ instead of /pol/
>>12226534
>allowing herd immunity to build up in a controlled manner right
That was not the intent and I'm not sure where you would hear someone claim such an outrageous thing.
>herd immunity may not even be possible if the virus reinfects people
As of yet unknown but most likely to be true
>what's the point in keeping the lockdown going
To prevent unnecessary morbidity and mortality.

>>12226554
>mental midget who took a wrong turn at redit and ended up here

>>12226554
>That was not the intent and I'm not sure where you would hear someone claim such an outrageous thing.
so what was the point? Did they think the virus would just go away if we locked down for long enough?
>unnecessary morbidity and mortality.
You mean like that which would be caused by prolonging a lockdown for long enough to crash the economy, spike unemployment and destroy peoples livelehoods?
And how does prolonging the lockdown prevent mortality anyway? If long term immunity is impossible then the virus is here to stay, so surely the lockdown becomes pointless?

>>12226554
>Relying on herd immunity would yield many more deaths than necessary.

That's not the only factor at play. You are preventing social and economic activity, which lives are reliant on. You are actively punishing healthy, responsible people because you are too mentally weak to allow any deaths to occur even when it's statistically unlikely, even for the elderly.

>>12226571
>spike unemployment and destroy peoples livelehoods

It's despicable how mentally weak you have to be to pretend to be moral by "preventing deaths" when the alternative is this. These are the sorts of people who would stand there and watch as a coyote eats their dog because they think it's immoral to kill anything. Pathetic.

>>12226360
>letting 10-20% of the population die because it saves some bucks is not immoral

>>12226592
>10-20% of the population die
do you have a single source to suggest that the virus is even close to that lethal?

>>12226360
the United Nations has moral authority over the world. there is no higher power, so shut the fuck up and listen, chud

Modern life is literally truman show shit

it's all fake

>>12226592
>>12226592
1 in 200. 1 in 100 at best.

>>12226595
No, but no country uses the herd imunity approach. Even if it's just 5% it's stupid.

>>12226571
>so what was the point? Did they think the virus would just go away if we locked down for long enough?
To prevent unnecessary morbidity and mortality? I'm not sure why this isn't obvious. Clearly we couldn't do nothing, as the effect would be orders of magnitude larger than it is now.
>You mean like that which would be caused by prolonging a lockdown for long enough to crash the economy, spike unemployment and destroy peoples livelehoods?
Those don't kill people or put them in hospitals. This is just a talking point. Researchers since the Spanish Flu was a thing have shown that economic turmoil during a pandemic is more the fault of the public's reaction to a pandemic than any government lockdown or imposed control strategy.
>how does prolonging the lockdown prevent mortality anyway?
Preventing spread of the disease.
>If long term immunity is impossible then the virus is here to stay, so surely the lockdown becomes pointless?
Are you trying to ignore the details of the disease? C'mon anon, think about why that statement is silly. Do you have a better idea of controlling spread that isn't a lockdown? We'd love to hear it.
>>12226559
>oink oink!
Proud of you anon
>>12226579
>You are preventing social and economic activity, which lives are reliant on
See research point above. Again, this is a talking point. As a thought experiment, think of the people you know who have been ruined irreparably by the economic turmoil, and then think of people who have had their lives changed irreparably (morbidity or mortality) by COVID. The answer should be pretty simple
>t. previous own of my apartment died from COVID
>You are actively punishing healthy, responsible people
Everyone shares in this burden. I don't like the lockdown either, but it's socially responsible and in our best interest.
>too mentally weak
projection
>to allow any deaths to occur even when it's statistically unlikely
1% of the US is 3000000 people

>>12226604
>Even if it's just 5%
well it's not even that, particularly if you consider those who would have died anyway regardless of the virus but happened to have it

>>12226604
It has lethality of about 0.1%

>>12226612
>To prevent unnecessary morbidity and mortality? I'm not sure why this isn't obvious.
and how exactly does the lockdown do this you fucking retard? Bet you can't answer because you're just spouting shit like the mindless drone you are
>Those don't kill people or put them in hospitals.
Neither does covid most of the time
And poverty, unemployment and loss of social structures certainly does kill people, you'd have to be pretty naive not to realise that
>Do you have a better idea of controlling spread that isn't a lockdown? We'd love to hear it.
Shielding the particularly vulnerable and maintaining general social distancing/hygiene for the rest. Balance the potential harms of covid with the non-covid harms of lockdown. Listen to the "health experts" after all https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54442386

>>12226363
>>12226372
>>12226375
>>12226465
Look at all these absolute Falwell-tier cuckold conservatives

Herd immunity through a vaccine is a good solution, but that's not what your God emperor is talking about
He's talking about let's let everyone get it and if we lose 3 million hey we're stronger than before right?

Die for the Good of the State and the Party, faggot cucks

>>12226534
No, the point was to keep from overwhelming our system while we figure out a truly effective treatment or develop a vaccine

>>12226622
>poverty, unemployment and loss of social structures certainly does kill people
Only recently have the wealthy and their cuck drones been making this argument. Prior to 2020, if you died in poverty, it was your own damn fault.

>>12226654
>Only recently have the wealthy and their cuck drones been making this argument. Prior to 2020, if you died in poverty, it was your own damn fault.
nice straw man, go fuck yourself

>>12226612
>See research point above.
Public's reaction is completely inexorable from government regulations. What a nonsense point.

>As a thought experiment, think of the people you know who have been ruined irreparably by the economic turmoil, and then think of people who have had their lives changed irreparably (morbidity or mortality) by COVID. The answer should be pretty simple

This anecdotally supports my argument, so let's not even play this. I know more people in the former category than in the later category, which is exactly zero.

>Everyone shares in this burden. I don't like the lockdown either, but it's socially responsible and in our best interest.

Honestly I do not mind the lockdown one bit. What I am concerned with is that it is been months. When does this end? When will you stop trying to play God and allow people to take care of their own health? Educate people to stop drinking alcohol, to get proper amounts of sleep, to eat nutritious foods. These things would reduce death not only of the disease but of ALL causes of death. Stop treating people like they are vulnerable, weak children.

>1% of the US is 3000000 people
It's not at 1%. And that isn't taking into account co morbidity.

>>12226654
Take your politics and fuck off.

>>12226614
Because the number of cases relative to population is low. Now get everyone infected at once and see what happens.

>>12226654
>Only recently have the wealthy and their cuck drones been making this argument. Prior to 2020, if you died in poverty, it was your own damn fault.

It's still consistent. The idea is to allow people freedom and to take responsibility for themselves. Most conservatives acknowledge the harm poverty does, but they have different solutions. They advocate individual responsibility, just as they did in the past.

>>12226678
The lethality would drop because general population is less vulnerable to disease spreading than nursing homes.

>>12226654
>No, the point was to keep from overwhelming our system while we figure out a truly effective treatment or develop a vaccine
so when does it end? If it was about buying time then we've bought all we can afford, a vaccine was never going to come out within a year and there's no way to prolong a lockdown that long without it having worse consequences than the virus itself. Hell, a vaccine may not even be possible anyway

>>12226678
The weak die and the strong survive.

Can't keep playing fantasy for too long. Mother nature always gets her way.

>>12226612
>>12226654
>To prevent unnecessary morbidity and mortality?
>I don't like the lockdown either, but it's socially responsible and in our best interest.
>No, the point was to keep from overwhelming our system while we figure out a truly effective treatment or develop a vaccine

>>12226622
>how exactly does the lockdown do this
by curbing spread, less disease = less morbidity and mortality. How is this not clear? Use your brain and try again.
>mindless drone
Oh, so you're one of those people; another contrarian piggot to disregard because common sense = mobthink and I can't be wrong if I don't understand the issue.
>Neither does covid most of the time
A piggot who likes moving goalposts as well it seems
>And poverty, unemployment and loss of social structures certainly does kill people, you'd have to be pretty naive not to realise that
You'd have to be even more naive to claim COVID is less lethal. This isn't including the fact that research indicates stronger responses to the pandemic mean a quicker economic rebound
>see https://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-health-response-economic-recovery-0401
so youre just a whiny piglet
>Shielding the particularly vulnera-oink oink oink
you're demonstrably stupid so I'm not gonna read it hahahahhaha
>>12226661
>Public's reaction is completely inexorable from government regulations
People won't visit businesses even if they were open because they fear the pandemic, Mr. Stinky Piggy. It's only nonsense because you're dumb. Point being that public reaction >>> gov't reaction in terms of economic impact. Read a book
>When will you stop trying to play God
Public health measures is playing God? Where do these people come from?
>Educate people
doesn't work for the uneducated who don't listen, buy into nonsense, and refuse to learn a thing or two or see the bigger pic, e.g. everyone I'm replying to
> people like they are vulnerable, weak children.
what a moronic post. the vulnerable and weak are the reason these measures are necessary
>>12226720
>mocking common sense and reason
and the other anon wants to "educate" people, hahahaha, you idiots are why we have lockdowns

>>12226360
Can someone tell me what the fuck does everyone think "HERD IMMUNITY" means?

If I vaccinate as many people as I can and those persons meet a vector, they won't catch or transmit the disease to unvaccinated vulnerable people, thus those vulnerable are protected by HERD IMMUNITY.

Is the WHO against vaccination now?

>>12227364
No, it's against the idea that we should let a bunch of people die rather than wait for a vaccine. People keep holding up Sweden for what we should be doing despite Sweden having been a complete failure.

>>12227364
They aren't talking about actual herd immunity, they're talking about doing nothing and letting the virus spread in an attempt to gain herd immunity from it.

>>12227371
>>12227367
Why don't they name it "Negligent immunity" then?

Fucking retards, this is what you get for corrupt nigger politicians as the heads of the world's healthcare guidance.

>>12227367
sweden followed the agreed upon policies set by science and is being demonized because people were scared 9 months ago

>>12227349
>by curbing spread, less disease = less morbidity and mortality.
except this obviously won't be the case if herd immunity is not possible, as as soon as lockdown lifts we will experience a wave of reinfections and be just as bad off, only with a ruined economy and mass unemployment as well

>>12226697
this. hate the jews all you want but they are an evolutionary force, a catalyst. SS this if you are smart enough to understand what it means

>>12226360
Because, you stupid fucks, the model of the world us "schizos" have been spoonfeeding you for decades is net true. Sometimes the answer is that simple.

>>12226447
>The World Health Organization is the most capable medical group on the planet. Think of it as X-COM or the Navy S.E.A.L.S., but for doctors.
This here is what we call a clamp cuck. Clamped & cucked. He watches their song and dance, sits in the theater and watches the show, looks at their grandiose spectacle rituals and puffed up sense of skill and importance, and believes in all of it.

>>12227392
to add to that, even if it is possible, we simply cannot keep extending lockdown until a vaccine appears, which may never happen or be years away. Sooner or later we have to lift lockdown, and when we do we'll be in the very same position

>>12227364
Herd immunity is the minimum proportion of a population with immunity required to cease the continued spread of the disease in said population. We don't necessarily need all 100% of a population to be vaccinated against a disease in order to stymie its spread, but this depends on the characteristics of the disease and the population of interest.

For example, measles is a highly virulent disease that becomes easily endemic in a naive population that is large enough. The herd immunity level needed in a population in order to limit the probability of a measles outbreak is 96+%, depending on the population.

A rough approximation of herd immunity useful for theoretical purposes is 1-(1/R0), where R0 is the reproduction number of the disease. Using our earlier example of measles, R0 = 12-18, so this value is close to total immunity of the population. Current estimates place the R0 of COVID at around 2.5, so this means around 67% of the population with immunity.

Taking this at face value, that means herd immunity requires 67% of the population to be infected. This is immoral for several reasons. Since we don't have a vaccine, this indicates immunity would be acquired, i.e. 67% of the population catches the disease. This is immoral because this would create exorbitant amounts of unnecessary morbidity and mortality, as COVID is much worse than measles, even if it doesn't end in the death of the victim. Not to mention it is zoonotic and thus prone to mutating at a faster rate, and is a new virus we've very little familiarity with. Also, herd immunity via acquired infection will make this a childhood infection (i.e. something like mumps or rubella), and I'm not sure I want that in my lifetime.

Not to mention other issues such as waning immunity, so we would need to wait a bit anyway for more information before making such a gamble.

>>12227386
Public health is not an issue of science but of politics. You can do whatever the fuck you want with it.

The optimal approach would have been to do like in that pandemic game. Shut down the means of transportation and lockdown the infected areas for the infective period. Science says if you cut the chain of transmission the disease dies.

The big fucking mistake most countries had was not understanding what herd immunity meant, and they started treating lockdown as fucking curfew. Many healthy people were made sick by putting them together with asymptomatic infected, even worse they were arbitrarily released, which only made more people die and let the shit spread.

>>12227410
it's an economic game, tech and pharmaceuticals are killing it and who bribes the politicians?

>>12227392
>>12227402
It looks like the only answer I can give you then is that we don't know what will happen. I admit that we are prolonging the inevitability of having to develop a real solution, but this is the best option we have right now. We don't know if the virus will mutate, and we don't want to let the flood gates open and leave hundreds of thousands more dead. We need to wait until more information is available in the form of a vaccine or more tolerable public health measures. We're in a purgatory of decision-making right now, but this is the lesser of the many evil alternatives by far.

>>12227349
>and the other anon wants to "educate" people, hahahaha, you idiots are why we have lockdowns
>so youre just a whiny piglet
>you're demonstrably stupid so I'm not gonna read it hahahahhaha

>>12227382
Because "no-maskers" want to sound intelligent

>>12227402
>>12227392
If we had such a fatalist view for every existing disease medicine and public health wouldn't exist. You're pretty much saying it's not worth it to try and fight a disease because someone will be infected anyways. The "Flatten the curve" approach is flawed precisely because of what you say. This disease could have been a simulacrum for Erradication efforts for emergent diseases.

Now the precedent exists that governments won't lift a finger about biohazards. What do you think the consequences will become for bioterrorism?

Besides, you don't need general lockdowns to last all years. A general lockdown is a tool to detect and contain the disease in limited areas, you can lockdown those specific areas however needed afterwards. I know a general lockdown comes with a price, and thus I believe there's only 1 good chance of making it turn out successful, the rest is up to individuals in that population.

>>12227429
or we just have to bite the bullet like people have done with far worse pandemics throughout history

>>12227405
>A rough approximation of herd immunity useful for theoretical purposes
This is where you fail. You let math schizos and their bullshit hypothetical models to take into account all the possibilities from a real world situation when you're facing a disease you know nothing about.

>>12227433

>>12227367
>>12227382
>>12227386
I dunno what the big idea about Sweden is, we have far less deaths per in total and per capita than USA and other lockdown nations.
Monthly deaths last 3 months has been significantly below average, it seems likely that on a year to year basis 2020 will not have any excess mortality in Sweden.

Nations that do large lockdowns seem to have far worse death tolls. At this point you could credibly hypothetize that the lockdowns are more deadly than the virus.

>>12227442
If you want to throw yourself into the crossfire and get killed that decision is up to you. This is a transmissible disease, and people who don't want to be put in the crossfire are involved, so you don't get to decide over it.

>>12226654

>>12227440
>ou're pretty much saying it's not worth it to try and fight a disease because someone will be infected anyways.
That's not what I'm nor what anyone else is saying. We don't know how to fight it yet, so we are resorting to the proven methods of curbing spread. I don't understand the remaining of this paragraph.
>Now the precedent exists that governments won't lift a finger about biohazards.
This is a bit of slippery slope and you'd have to argue this point a lot more clearly lol
>in limited areas
except it's in every single state
>the rest is up to individuals in that population.
which we can't trust
>>12227442
>far worse pandemics
>HIV/AIDS
>Spanish Flu
>n = 2
I can't think of any other comparable pandemics in the last century, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
>>12227448
This may be bait, but modeling transmission of infectious diseases has been around for centuries and has proven its usefulness time and time again. Rejecting this is akin to luddite-tier rationale.
>take into account all the possibilities from a real world situation
Google the definition of a scientific (not just mathematical) model and rethink your drooling.
>you know nothing about.
Very ironic.

>>12227457
>you could credibly hypothetize that the lockdowns are more deadly
If you're an absolute midwit, of course you could.

Everyone is taking the statistics at face value. Nobody is taking into account the specific characteristics of each lockdown in a case by case basis. No one takes into account the political situation of the country, the interest of local public health institutions to protect population or its economy, the protocols to put people in lockdown, the logistics to transport the suspected cases, the overcrowding at the places they're being held in, the conditions under which they're being released, the liberty the released person has to walk around. Nobody takes into account protective factors that are in the population's zeitgeist either.

>>12227448
I have a solution to the pandemic. We gather all the dumb fucking inbred idiots like you in a giant camp and then shoot each and everyone in the head. And after that can finally try to solve the problem scientifically without you retards giving us any trouble.
Go neck yourself, dumb fucking piece of shit. Stop talking about stuff you can't understand, cretin.

>>12227477
Spanish flu was worse than this, and had a much higher fatality rate in the young
Then there's the 1957-58 pandemic https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1957-1958-pandemic.html
and the 1968 hong kong flu that followed it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

>>12226360
These people are completely and utterly full of shit on every single level. That's what's going on.

>except it's in every single state
Not unlike how an absess could be localized in someone's arm and if let untreated the shit spreads through the bloodflow and the person dies of sepsis. The disease has spread because you decided not to treat it in time. Instead of removing the infected tissue, you inoculated it into other parts of your body. Instead of restricting access to places with airport access and emerging infected cities, you decide to tough it out. Well this is the result.


>Rejecting this is akin to luddite-tier rationale.
You're making overconfident decisions based on models that lack a fucking shit ton of variables in them.

>>12227509
You're not even a medic, how the fuck do you expect to make decisions upon medical matters?

>>12227457
Because swedes are not complete idiots and can be trusted with a bit individual responsibility. Also sweden has a low population density.

>>12227509
you mean bankrupt people because you're fat and scared and have the money to sit on your ass?

>>12226360
If only we had a massive global organization funded by the entire world dedicated to figuring out these things ahead of time.
That would have really helped some months ago when we had to make these decisions.

>>12227513
Spanish flu also happened a century ago when people thought it was transmitted by bad gas in libraries and all other sorts of ridiculous nonsense. They also had lockdowns, so I'm not sure "biting the bullet" as they did is a fair assessment. Not to mention COVID has surpassed both of your other examples in terms of deaths, so "biting the bullet" entails a lot more. Your point is a terrible one and it doesn't make sense.

>>12227617
No, I mean retards that try to argue even the most basic scientific reasoning because they are to stupid to understand it and feel smart if they do.

>>12226601
which is why you should ignore it

>>12227364
>vaccination
why would they be against that when it's bill gates they get all their money from and gates is pushing an unsave vaccine for whatever reason

he literally said on german TV that it takes 5 years for a safe vaccine but they will push something out the door earlier and he wants to vaccinate 7 billion people

>>12226579
Responsible people don't go around spreading infectious diseases, regardless of how unlikely it is for someone to die from the disease in question.

>>12227784
>Responsible people don't go around spreading infectious diseases, regardless of how unlikely it is for someone to die from the disease in question.
How the fuck do you think regular flu spreads?

>>12227826
It's mainly spread by irresponsible people who don't stay home when they're sick and infectious.

>>12227663
fantastic arguing skills

>>12227457
>At this point you could credibly hypothesize that the lockdowns are more deadly than the virus.
Yes, you could say this. You could also say:
>Sir, all our fatal gun shot patients are dying shortly after we apply bandages. I think the bandages must be killing our patients!

>>12227457
Gotta say it feels pretty good to not live in a country where the gobberment used the fear of the COOF to revoke freedom of assembly. Kinda strange since didnt vote for this goverment and not liked most of what they've done untill now. Maybe I can cope by saying all the good was done by Tegnell that isnt an elected offical so I can stay firm in my political tribalism.

>>12228408
sweden is the only based country rn

>>12228408
Congrats. I am disappointed but not surprised by the continued mass hysteria and utter lack of rational thought people in my country have displayed.

>>12227771
They make an official statement that they're against herd immunity, when vaccination is all about achieving higher degrees of herd immunity. It's not far fetched to assume they don't give a shit either way.

>>12227477
you have such a distinct, faggoty posting style that ive recognized you for weeks now
every time i see you post your dumb shit i feel just a little more sick inside than before
neck yourself

Vaccine soon, bros.

>>12227584
The elderly were dyinh

>>12228912
nobody gives a shit, with lockdowns the young die. leave it to 4chan to support dysgenics

In many ways corona has become a way to virtue signal. Masks are more popular than staying at home because no one can see you staying at home, but everyone can see you wearing a mask. By doing this you can feel superior because you are "responsible" and "caring". This is regardless of whether or not masks are effective.

This virus has an insanely low lethality rate, and the world is reacting like it's some sort of super aids. Combine this with the fact that if you point this out you're labeled as uneducated, or "on the wrong side of history" and it's very surreal. The virus has become political. Perhaps not surprising, most crisises are, but this one is manufactured out of nothing.

>>12228713
Stay mad, piggot. As far as I'm concerned I'm one of the only niggas posting shit in these threads that isn't schizophrenic conspiracy-tier retarded drivel.

>>12226360
read what "Worried about Sweden" wrote here: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-614-letters/

>>12226598
What about the United Federation of Planets? They're as credible as the United Nations at this point.

I want them to keep it locked down as long as they want just to see what happens desu. Doesn't affect me

>>12227429
Look at the date, it has been almost a fucking year. What more are we waiting to learn? We have built up a supply of ventilators, we have discovered multiple drugs that help reduce the fatality rate. The hospitals are no longer over crowded.
>I admit that we are prolonging the inevitability of having to develop a real solution, but this is the best option we have right now.
Is it really though, is increased suicides (sometimes greater than covid deaths is some places), reduced scientific discovery in multiple fields from posponed investegations, the death of so many small businesses, and the skill sets their employees carried, millions of missed birthdays and weddings, delays to so many other valuable projects, is it all, still worth it, now we know what we know, now that hospitals are no longer overhelmed, now that we know not to let the infected return to their carehomes (like 50% of deaths in some places came from this, easy to prevent action, that we now know not to let happen.).
How can you sit there, without having really deeply thought about how the cost:benifit ratio has changed in the last 6 months, and keep parroting the same talking points as if it was febuary or something. How the fuck are you both so naive and so smug at the same time, you double digit IQ having npc.

>>12226469
>>12226515
>>12227397
guise i think this might be bait

lmao
The WHO states something correct and sane just once in their sorry life cycle and retards go apeshit. Unbelievable.
Meanwhile, confirmed reinfections go up and prove that herd immunity won't work unless everybody gets infected/vaccinated at the same time.

>>12229495
>confirmed reinfections go up
They've climbed to 5. Not 5 times, not 5% but to five. That's the number of confirmed reinfections for the entire planet. Five.
Know what else has reinfections? Chicken Pox. Not many, but a small number. The annual flu? Yep, some small percentage of people are able to get infected by the same strain multiple times. Not everyone develops lasting immunity to any given virus. Why are you so hyped up about five reinfections on the entire planet when reinfections for other viruses happen at greater numbers but we don't lockdown all of humanity over them?

>>12229512
You might want to check the news, fren.

>>12226360
I think in the long run Darwinism worked better than morality. We are long overdue for some culling. Shitposters like me will probably be the first to go.

>>12229512
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/06/flurry-of-coronavirus-reinfections-leaves-scientists-puzzled
>So far, only two dozen or so reinfections have been confirmed worldwide
>For now at least, reinfection seems uncommon. But scientists point out that confirming reinfection is no easy task and many cases are missed.

>>12226612
proud of you little niggy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc7wg58wpkU

>>12226654
I told you faggots this was a psyop from jump cuckatoo. dost try to hindsight 20/20 me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc7wg58wpkU

>>12229554
>>12229602
7.8 billion people. 24 re-infections.
Do you not understand orders of magnitude? Twenty-four might as well be zero, even if you compare it against know infections (itself a small percentage of all infections) instead of global population.
Face it, your "everyone will keep getting it over and over and over again" meme is dead.

>>12226554
>>Facebook boomer who clicked on /sci/ instead of /pol/

>>12229602
Its just people with some rare forms of immunodeficiency. Of course when you have millions of infections there are going to be cases when they dont produce antiboides properly or b memory cells dont work as they should

>>12229743
>Do you not understand orders of magnitude?
Do you not understand exponential growth? Why am I even asking, you clearly don't.
>your "everyone will keep getting it over and over and over again" meme is dead.
Nice strawman.

>>12229889
>Its just people with some rare forms of immunodeficiency
Nope. Read again. This time try to understand what the sources say.

>>12226447
Excellent bait. Well done.

>>12230069
read the peer reviewed science rather than the guardian next time you cokewold

>>12229760
>>12227456

>>12229316
You say it's been almost a year and then at the end of your diatribe say six months, read your post before hitting send?
>suicides
give me a number of suicides or at least an article talking about how significant this is on a scale that rivals that of COVID and I won't laugh at you
>reduced scientific discovery in multiple fields
Damn, general AI and a UFT were THIS close if only it wasn't for that COVID
>death of so many small businesses
most business, at least in the states, are back open albeit with social distancing and a max seating capacity
>skill sets their employees carried
waiting tables
>millions of missed birthdays and weddings
this is just bait by this point
>how can you sit there, keep parroting the same talking points, oink oink naive and smug
because your arguments consist of nonissue bull shit in comparison to a zoonotic pandemic
>naive
I read books, may come as a surprise to a piggot like you
>smug
I'm not a retard

Retard. Just like >>12229743

>>12226541

>>12226612
>>You mean like that which would be caused by prolonging a lockdown for long enough to crash the economy, spike unemployment and destroy peoples livelehoods?
>Those don't kill people or put them in hospitals. This is just a talking point.
jesus christ this was an atrocious point. all of the mental health effects of the lockdowns. The depression, domestic abuse, sexual abuse. All of the adverse aspects of human behavior being amplified by forcing people into their homes and keeping them there. Jesus fucking christ you are a dangerous intellectual for society. Fuck you.

>>12226360
Turns out "herd immunity" meaning letting the disease just spread an kill lots and lots of people, instead of saving lives IS actually immoral. It's not rocket science.

Letting disease spread and killing people is immoral.
Protecting people from the disease and not let people die: moral.

Fuck people are stupid.

>inb4 the actions to prevent the spread kill more and is more wrong
No.
If you say that, prove it. Prove that the actions taken kill more people. It's the opposite with economy too. If you let the disease spread, people will get killed and everybody is too scared to consoom. So it's doubly shit.

>>12230675
>most business, at least in the states, are back open albeit with social distancing and a max seating capacity

1 in 7 small businesses are closed PERMANENTLY. Forever. That's hundreds of thousands of livelihoods ruined. plus the hundred million or so people who were plunged back into extreme poverty by the global lockdowns. It wasn't worth it.

>>12230783
>Turns out "herd immunity" meaning letting the disease just spread an kill lots and lots of people, instead of saving lives IS actually immoral
You're being a cock sucker speaking in black and white. Nobody wants to just let the virus spread and kill people. There are many options outside of completely shutting everything down for everyone which has proven to not have slowed spread enough to be worth it. As other anons have said, let healthy people function, do what we can to protect those at highest risk you fuckfaced cunt.

>>12230795
>1 in 7 small businesses are closed PERMANENTLY.
Lemme see a citation Mr. Pathos

>>12230812
we absolutely have to let healthy people function but that will contribute to the spread of the virus which will kill more vulnerable people. there is no good solution. "do what we can" is a lie. because we can't do much. we are just basically saying sorry we have to move on.

>>12230880
>we are just basically saying sorry we have to move on.
which should be the case imo. If you care about your loved ones you need to do what you can to protect them and also, those that are most vulnerable need to do what they can to protect themselves. There are a couple of things i can think of to maintain social contact. Skype and such. It comes back to individual responsibility and choice. The communist approach of forcing people to do blanket behavior is atrocious and destructive. And personally, i only care about the elderly that are at risk. Fat fucks that don't take care of themselves already should fucking die imo. I am a heartless cunt in some regard.

>>12230902
>And personally, i only care about the elderly that are at risk.
*elderly and people who are sick beyond their control as in sick from genetic predisposition. people that are sick from poor life choices can go fuck themselves. I've struggled with food addiction. If my health suffers because f my poor life choices then fuck me, im not worth caring about. Move on.

>>12230902
what about perfectly healthy asymptomatic younger people with permanent lung/heart/brain damage.

>>12226554
>That was not the intent and I'm not sure where you would hear someone claim such an outrageous thing.
Maybe herd immunity was not the intent in Africa but in the civilised world the intention was to flatten the curve so hospitals won't be overwhelmed and herd immunity can build up, chang.

>>12230955
What about them? They gotta do what they can to survive. Hopefully they have loved ones that care about them and are smart and pro-active enough to help keep them safe. Fruits/vegetables/grains/exercise. Empower your immune system everyday regardless of there being a pandemic for fucks sake, being alive is a battle against nature as well as people.

>>12229316
>>12230795
ironic how the same people talking about "personal responsibility" also talk about "cost:benefit ratio" and how many small businesses died.
well, if those small businesses died, it was because of the IRRESPONSIBILITY of their owners. yes, of course the pandemic affected them, but businesses are supposed to be able to adapt to uncertain situations. their owners should have done whatever it takes to adapt and overcome the pandemic. that's "personal responsibility" for you.
also, what's the cost:benefit ratio of an employee dying or becoming ill for at least 1 week? and would be responsible if that happened in the middle of a pandemic?

>>12230472
I did, because it's linked in the article and I couldn't post it here directly. So what now?
The US patient had no preexisting conditions, contradicting what you claimed.

>>12227448
he says in the "Science & Math" board...

>>12227457
>it seems likely that on a year to year basis 2020 will not have any excess mortality in Sweden.
here, ctrl+f sweden: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
also see >>12229242
stop lying. I doubt the swedes are this ignorant and stupid.

TWO MORE YEARS CHUD

THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL

CONTACTLESS LIFE

PEOPLE ARE DYING

DO YOU WANT GRANDMA TO DIE

DO YOU UNDERSTAND EXPONENTIAL GROWTH

TRUMP KILLED 2000000 AMERICANS

VOTE

STAY THE FUCK HOME AND WEAR A MASK

YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DYING TOO

LUNGS PERMANENTLY DAMAGED

UNDER 1% OF YOUNG PEOPLE PERMANENTLY DAMAGED

YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME

>>12230956
>Maybe herd immunity was not the intent in Africa
who the fuck mentioned Africa? What are you talking about?

>>12231097
>VOTE
Still voting trump

I'm just waiting for the correct mutation to occur.

Then we'll see. The living culture of human hosts is the most glorious monoculture experiment in human history. Thank Allah for the airplane. It can accomplish many things, eh? EH?

tldr: 9/11 was an inside job and coronavirus is actually a Jihadist terrorist plot.

>>12231071
>. I doubt the swedes are this ignorant and stupid.
I can confirm that they aren't. Many wear masks and almost everyone I know keeps distance.

>>12226678
that's not how it works. the disease is more infectious yes, but it's lethality is even less than the flu.
do you not recall how percentages work? is this not /sci/?

>>12231188
The whole problem is that the population is too dumbed downa nd fragmented, we can't organize quickly enough. So the power can throw whatever nonsense they want at us, watch everyone argue endlessly amongst themselves, and the plan moves forward.

>>12231217
>techno neoliberalism is ensuring it is the end of history
why even live?

>>12231261
Don't know, man. Gotta wonder.

>>12227650
Yeah that would be rad. Unfortunately we have a committee that’s politically infiltrated and waffled back and forth about what to do week after week, constantly contradicting themselves over and over again without reliable data to back up their claims. As a result no one now listens to them and trusts their government even less with regards to response.

>>12230067
Bro millions have already gotten it. If this were as serious an issue as you imply then we would have more than a handful of cases happening.

>>12231063
>n=1
>BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRAID
how much you invested in pfizer?

>>12230675
I started covid prepping in Jan, 10+ months is almost a year, it took a while for countries to start taking things seriously get the genome sequenced and start mass producion covid-science, so 6 months of actual productive learning time.
>give me a number of suicides or at least an article talking about how significant this is on a scale that rivals that of COVID and I won't laugh at you
Google it yourself cakeboy.
>Damn, general AI and a UFT were THIS close if only it wasn't for that COVID
Just watch a video on the LSST 5 minutes ago supprise that is delayed due to covid, as are thousands of other projects, from infraestructure like bridges to the public park they are building in my town, everywhere has been fucked by lockdowns.
>most business, at least in the states, are back open albeit with social distancing and a max seating capacity
so they are..... not locked down.... great, glad we can agree the lockdown is bullshit.
>waiting tables
AudibleEyeroll.mp3, maybe geting your chicken tendies is the only comercial activity your mommy lets you be involved with, but far more than hospitality has been fucked over.
>this is just bait by this point
Life is for living aint it, if not letting immunocompromised peope die is so important why arent we in lockdown every day of every year since we discovered germ theory.
>because your arguments consist of nonissue bull shit in comparison to a zoonotic pandemic
Oh no its a "zoonotic pandemic" run for the hills!! Take out the mass deaths at retirement homes and it is a borderline nothing burger, Lockdown the retierment homes and let the rest of the planet be productive unless your local hospital is low on ICU beds and ventilators.
>I read books, may come as a surprise to a piggot like you
Yes it is a supprise that someone who reads in their spare time lets a phrase like "zoonotic pandemic" cull their thought space to agreeing with whatever trash tier press release the WHO or local gubermint shat out this morning.

All the autism on /sci/ regarding corona can be reduced to these simple facts:
Corona is here to stay. It may not be "just a flu" but it is less deadly than it was in March, since most viruses mutate towards a milder form. In that sense it is very similar to common flu which mutates all the time so the vaccinations are not very efficient. So basically we have another seasonal "flu", deadlier and more contagious than common flu.
As a result, more people will die during the combined "flu/corona" season. And there is nothing we can do about that. Not in the next few years anyway. So just follow common precautions, same as with the common flu: wash your hands, don't touch your face, and if you are high risk avoid contacts with other people etc etc. There are still many things that we don't know yet such as if there is long term immunity and how common and how severe long term damage is among those who recovered from it. We may or may not have a vaccine in the near future or ever, and even if we do it may turn out to be as inefficient as the flu vaccine (20-60% depending on the year). But that doesn't mean people shouldn't get vaccinated (which is a totally different story). Most people will probably get infected just like most people had common flu at least once. Herd immunity will be achieved eventually.

tl;dr do not be reckless but don't get your panties in a bunch, either.

>>12231897
>thousands of other projects, from infraestructure like bridges to the public park they are building in my town, everywhere
Buildings are hard science now? lmao

>>12232042
>It may not be "just a flu" but it is less deadly than it was in March
Perhaps, but that's never been the point in all the measures against its spread. We knew right Form the start that it attacks multiple organs.

>>12231897
>Google it yourself cakeboy.
>make my argument for me
>infrastructure and parks
Shifting goalposts
>the lockdown is bullshit
There isn't one (at least in my state, and I assume most other states)
>file extension meme
Newfag
>immunocompromised people die all the time, why not lock down then?
Stupid point considering it isn't a novel pandemic killing them 99.99% of the time, and it's not just them at risk.
>WHO
I don't stay updated with Dr. Kumbaya, I just do research in a public health related field and have enough common fucking sense to not drag my knuckles when I walk. Your entire post screams "I have no idea what I'm talking about" because you (i) repeat the same points, (ii) trip over your own arguments, and (iii) fail to grasp the bigger picture in any meaningful way.

You're either a boomer or a callous nitwit who hasn't physically occupied any location more than 5 miles away from the hospital your slut mother pinched you out in. Piggot.

>>12230306
I agree. Also laughing at all the dumb ESL motherfuckers who cant into obvious sarcasm.

Why the fuck was the OP image deleted?

>>12228879
What? Where is all the nigger diversity? They need to scrap the vaccine immediately and hire a diverse team full of niggers to make the vaccine.

>>12228953
I think its great. Put it this way, people are either dumb motherfuckers or they are not. Nothing changes the attitudes and beliefs of the dummies, neither facts nor logic. So in essence CV19 is a great polarizer, awakening the small minority of intelligent people to the fact that they are surrounded by a sea of mouthbreathing idiots who are easily manipulated.

>>12226360
What's up with these images disappearing?

>>12233644
Mods are both gay and clamped

>>12233560
guess what the flu does

corona deaths per million inhabitants (some countries):

Taiwan: 0.3
New Zealand 5
Singapore 5
South Korea 9
Japan 13
Hong Kong 14

Norway 51
Finland 63
Austria 97
Germany 117
Switzerland 243
Sweden 585
UK 635
USA 669

>>12233644
>>12233659
What was it?

>>12233757
Just a picture of the article headline with Mr. Black WHO guy, not sure why it was deleted. Fucking idiots.

>>12233605
pretty much this, the bad thing is that the more retards you're surrounded with the worse will be your outcome.

>>12231897
>unless your local hospital is low on ICU beds and ventilators.
Thats the case for everyone living in a 3rd world country (some parts of America included).